the "next Michael Jordan" is dead. it is now "the first Stephen Curry"

[kennethgriffin]

for the longest time as far back as i can remember the best possible player for this league was a dynamic 2 guard or wing that can do everything. post up. shoot mid range. use foot work. isolate. go 1 on 1.


this style is dead. its an ancient religion


i held onto kobe for the last few years thinking that style could rise from the ashes. thinking it would translate into andrew wiggins and we'd ride him off into the sunset.

i was wrong. the media was wrong. the nba was wrong.


andrew wiggins style does not suit the new era/rules/way the game is played


when this league transitioned into a PG's league and shooters league. it was the death sentance to "the next michael jordan" mantra

kobe bryant was seemingly the last player we will ever see dominate with that style.. but even he added the long range shot to his game to make it work..

and even lebron james had to play PG in order to have any chance... the heat had a bunch of outside shooters to make up for lebrons ineptitude...

it was a man by the name of ray allen whom saved lebrons career. with what? a three pointer.. the new tool of choice for champions of today


the spurs used it

the warriors used it

the heat used it


its how you win in todays league. and the best guy to lead the charge is a 3 point shooting ball dominant point guard


Steph Curry is not a 1 dimensional player

... hes a 2 dimensional player in a 2 dimensional league

passing/threes

this is our new prototypical michael jordan... aka best possible player

R.I.P next MJ

long live "next curry"

http://i65.tinypic.com/suzklk.jpg

[Uncle Drew]

Congratulations on finding a new player to stan.

[BlakFrankWhite]

So you've found a new player to dickride?

Good for you Kenneth, :applause:

[kennethgriffin]

you'd think it would be the logical choice to cheer for curry until i can find a suitable replacement


but i'm not a big fan of that style of basketball. i find todays league very boring

the three point spamming has ruined the game

the rules have ruined the game


i'l probly just hang on to see lebron lose a few more times than stop watching the sport until they revert back to the old rules where the jordan/kobe style can dominate again

i'm a fan of dynamic individuals

[Dragonyeuw]

this style is dead. its an ancient religion





That style is not dead. There's just no 2guards in the league with MJ's and Kobe's skillset. Kobe, with this 'dead' style you're referring to, was playing that style as recently as 2013, at 34/35, and was a top 5 player. So you're saying this 'style' died in 2 years? Put a 28 year old Kobe in today's game, and he'd be doing the same shit he was doing 10 years ago. Rules can change, offensive and defensive schemes evolve with the type of available talent, but transcendent talent will find a way to play and succeed in any era.

[ShawkFactory]

Congratulations on finding a new player to stan.
Come on now. It was just a well thought out way to downgrade MJ and Lebron and prop up Kobe. Read the OP again :oldlol:

[Mrofir]

Curry is reminding everyone this year that he is a legitimate MVP caliber player and will be in the discussion for some years to come.

Saying he's the new "GOAT", or something approaching that, is about 52 steps ahead of reality.

[IGOTGAME]

Steph plays a better and more modern brand of basketball. Jordan's ball would let be as effective today

[WayOfWade]

That style is not dead. There's just no 2guards in the league with MJ's and Kobe's skillset. Kobe, with this 'dead' style you're referring to, was playing that style as recently as 2013, at 34/35, and was a top 5 player. So you're saying this 'style' died in 2 years?
Pretty much this. Wade and Kobe were the last 2-guards capable of winning titles the MJ way, whereas now they're both too old and no other 2-guards have attained that level. Curry is incredible though, I certainly wouldn't call him the next Jordan, although so far this season he has been on Jordan's level

[kennethgriffin]

That style is not dead. There's just no 2guards in the league with MJ's and Kobe's skillset. Kobe, with this 'dead' style you're referring to, was playing that style as recently as 2013, at 34/35, and was a top 5 player. So you're saying this 'style' died in 2 years?




kobe stretched his game to adapt to the new nba


in 2013 most of his big games came with shots like this



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQd2h4X0O2E



kobe was basically a hybrid curry in 2013... ball dominant top of the key run around screens .. lots of long range shots


kobe still did some mid range work and back to the basket stuff..

but lets be honest. how effective was this style. how good was LA?

[kennethgriffin]

Pretty much this. Wade and Kobe were the last 2-guards capable of winning titles the MJ way, whereas now they're both too old and no other 2-guards have attained that level. Curry is incredible though, I certainly wouldn't call him the next Jordan, although so far this season he has been on Jordan's level


the heat won with three point shooting role players and lebrons ability to pass. he + those role players = 1 steph curry


wade was basically a non factor... when he dominated the heat lost in 2011... when he took a big step back they won

[Mrofir]

Guys -- Jordan as a defender is capable of ruining Curry's day. Not every day, but many days.

Curry is fantastic but I have one word for anyone comparing him to MJ

Delavadavodava

[Dragonyeuw]

kobe stretched his game to adapt to the new nba


in 2013 most of his big games came with shots like this



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQd2h4X0O2E



kobe was basically a hybrid curry in 2013... ball dominant top of the key run around screens .. lots of long range shots


kobe still did some mid range work and back to the basket stuff..

but lets be honest. how effective was this style. how good was LA?

Individually, very effective. Team-wise, well when you have a cheshire-cat grinning rent-a-center who couldn't care less if he wins a title or not( immediately, that's going to clash with Kobe's work ethic/competitiveness), and a 40 year old PG.....what are you expecting?

[Droid101]

Individually, very effective. Team-wise, well when you have a cheshire-cat grinning rent-a-center who couldn't care less if he wins a title or not( immediately, that's going to clash with Kobe's work ethic/competitiveness), and a 40 year old PG.....what are you expecting?
:lebronamazed:

[HurricaneKid]

That style is not dead. There's just no 2guards in the league with MJ's and Kobe's skillset. Kobe, with this 'dead' style you're referring to, was playing that style as recently as 2013, at 34/35, and was a top 5 player. So you're saying this 'style' died in 2 years? Put a 28 year old Kobe in today's game, and he'd be doing the same shit he was doing 10 years ago. Rules can change, offensive and defensive schemes evolve with the type of available talent, but transcendent talent will find a way to play and succeed in any era.

LOL @ Kobe being a top 5 player in 2013.

https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/2013-rapm-non-prior-informed-updated-march-30

It died a long time before 2013. You just don't get the game any more.

And the whole point is NO, HE WOULDN'T BE DOING THE SAME THING.

[WayOfWade]

I'm
the heat won with three point shooting role players and lebrons ability to pass. he + those role players = 1 steph curry


wade was basically a non factor... when he dominated the heat lost in 2011... when he took a big step back they won
This is true in 2012 and 2013, I was referring mainly to Wade in 2006, although what I said applies mainly to Kobe. Right now there are just no shooting guards playing at a GOAT level, nor do I think there will be for a little while. Curry is changing the game, blazing a new path for himself and (like you said) isn't being the next Jordan, just the first Curry

[kennethgriffin]

Curry is reminding everyone this year that he is a legitimate MVP caliber player and will be in the discussion for some years to come.

Saying he's the new "GOAT", or something approaching that, is about 52 steps ahead of reality.


in todays league/style

curry is the greatest player you could possibly choose to lead a team RIGHT NOW


wilt/shaq types = exposed with spamming hackashaq teams, rules that dont promote back to the basket games


jordan/kobe types = not utilizing threes and passing nearly enough




sorry to everyone that enjoyed all around basketball.. but all you'l be seeing a bunch of 3 point chuckers until the rules go back to normal

this league is ****ing shit to me right now.. so boring its pathetic



i try watching warriors games but i dunno how people can get into that bingo shit

[catch24]

Dumb thread

There simply isn't a Jordan, Kobe or anybody with that sort of skillset in today's game.

And if those guys were in their absolute primes...? They would wreck the league.

[kennethgriffin]

I'm
This is true in 2012 and 2013, I was referring mainly to Wade in 2006, although what I said applies mainly to Kobe. Right now there are just no shooting guards playing at a GOAT level, nor do I think there will be for a little while. Curry is changing the game, blazing a new path for himself and (like you said) isn't being the next Jordan, just the first Curry

2005 or 2006 was basically the beginning of the new era rules during the regular season

but i think the refs went back to the old style in the playoffs


the refs were old school back in the day. i remember the commentators even acknowledging it during the playoffs .. saying "maybe in the regular season. but this is the playoffs. its tougher basketball"



today the refs are soft all year round. they promote soft guys and p*ssies well into the finals now


if steve nash's suns were in todays league. theyed have an infinitely higher chance to win a title

[kennethgriffin]

Dumb thread

There simply isn't a Jordan, Kobe or anybody with that sort of skillset in today's game.

And if those guys were in their absolute primes...? They would wreck the league.


thats like saying "there simply isnt a 7 foot 300 pound guy in the world anymore


there is... but theyre useless in todays game. and teams draft accordingly

[catch24]

thats like saying "there simply isnt a 7 foot 300 pound guy in the world anymore


there is... but theyre useless in todays game. and teams draft accordingly

Okay. Who has that skillset you described, and isn't dominating?

[Dragonyeuw]

LOL @ Kobe being a top 5 player in 2013.

https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/2013-rapm-non-prior-informed-updated-march-30

It died a long time before 2013. You just don't get the game any more.

And the whole point is NO, HE WOULDN'T BE DOING THE SAME THING.

LOL at you thinking he wasn't. After Lebron and Durant, name 3 players clearly better than him that year.

[kennethgriffin]

kobe was great in 2013.. but he was a shooter more than anything by then... he was adapting to the new curry league


i even remember him trying to mix in 10+ assist games too for a while


he was going off curry style ... not mj style

[Dragonyeuw]

thats like saying "there simply isnt a 7 foot 300 pound guy in the world anymore


there is... but theyre useless in todays game. and teams draft accordingly

So you're saying if Shaq or David Robinson was coming into the draft this year, teams would pass on them for some 3 point spammer? Positions go through phases, 20 years ago we were in a peak for centers( Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Mutombo, Ewing, Mourning), 15 years ago power forwards(Duncan, Dirk, Garnett,Wallace, Webber) 10 years ago SGs( Kobe, Tmac, Wade, Ray, Iverson) and today we have a glut of great PGs. The pendulum will swing once again, 60 years of NBA basketball has proven this. A truly dominant, back to the basket talent would still be a commodity nowadays, we're just in a thin period.

[kennethgriffin]

So you're saying if Shaq or David Robinson was coming into the draft this year, teams would pass on them for some 3 point spammer? Positions go through phases, 20 years ago we were in a peak for centers( Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Mutombo, Ewing, Mourning), 15 years ago power forwards(Duncan, Dirk, Garnett,Wallace, Webber) 10 years ago SGs( Kobe, Tmac, Wade, Ray, Iverson) and today we have a glut of great PGs. The pendulum will swing once again, 60 years of NBA basketball has proven this.


no.. theyed draft them assuming theyed dominate and win titles like teams did with andrew wiggins and anthony davis

teams still think with the old rules


but those 2 guys will never lead a team to anything

[Dragonyeuw]

no.. theyed draft them assuming theyed dominate and win titles like teams did with andrew wiggins and anthony davis

teams still think with the old rules


but those 2 guys will never lead a team to anything

Because certain things are absolute, regardless of era: there will always be a need for size/dominance. The league moving out to the perimeter nowadays is as much to do with no Shaq/Hakeem/Ewing/Robinson forces around as the rules. Even as recently as 2011, Howard with zero post-game was considered a top 5 player, and he was half the players the 90's great centers were. But notice, in the past 5 years alone you had guys like Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, and Amare( all different positions, note) going to 50 year old Hakeem for post advice. Great post play is still a commodity and can still be an asset in this league, we just don't have that kind of players in large numbers at the moment.

[catch24]

Okay. Who has that skillset you described, and isn't dominating?

:confusedshrug:

[riseagainst]

I agree. Michael Jordan is no longer the GOAT, Steph Curry is .

[kennethgriffin]

Okay. Who has that skillset you described, and isn't dominating?


thats like saying "who are the bigs in todays game that would dominate 20 years ago"


i dunno.. do you have a time machine?


we wont know who the 2 guards/ small forwards are in todays game that would dominate the 90's or early 2000's ... because theyre playing in todays league and are handcuffed from showing what they can do


and besides that.. teams draft according to need... so that type of player doesnt get the chance another guy with a long shooting touch would get...

[kennethgriffin]

I agree. Michael Jordan is no longer the GOAT, Steph Curry is .


best prototypical player for the current rules in place is a little different than "greatest of all time/resume"



thats more associated with accolades

[catch24]

How is that the same thing? lol

You claimed players with skillets and impact a la Kobe and Jordan no longer are useful in today's game.

I then asked you to name those current players, and which ones that aren't dominant. I mean, if you don't know, then why make that claim in the first place?

[sportjames23]

That style is not dead. There's just no 2guards in the league with MJ's and Kobe's skillset. Kobe, with this 'dead' style you're referring to, was playing that style as recently as 2013, at 34/35, and was a top 5 player. So you're saying this 'style' died in 2 years? Put a 28 year old Kobe in today's game, and he'd be doing the same shit he was doing 10 years ago. Rules can change, offensive and defensive schemes evolve with the type of available talent, but transcendent talent will find a way to play and succeed in any era.


Ether

[kennethgriffin]

How is that the same thing? lol

You claimed players with skillets and impact a la Kobe and Jordan no longer are useful in today's game.

I then asked you to name those current players, and which ones that aren't dominant.


why would teams stack their lineups with guys who dont suit the needs of todays nba

why draft mid range guys when you need long range guys




theres probably a ton of 6-6 or 6-7 athletic players with moderate shooting ability being passed up by teams when 10-15 years ago a team would draft them and teach them how to shoot better gradually




when todays league calls for 3 point specialist stretch traditional 2 guards that dont handle the ball much

teams will pass up on the ball dominant do it all athletic wings that turn point guards into spot up shooters


remember when kobe and jordan won... fisher/kerr were the point guards.. 2 guys who couldnt handle the ball much and just stood in the corner or top shooting threes


thats the old style...


the 2guard and small forward have transitioned back into pre jordan era triditional stretch shooters


that dynamic player is no longer needed.

[catch24]

How is that the same thing? lol

You claimed players with skillets and impact a la Kobe and Jordan no longer are useful in today's game.

I then asked you to name those current players, and which ones that aren't dominant. I mean, if you don't know, then why make that claim in the first place?

Please answer this question directly.

Either there are players, or there aren't players and you simply don't know.

[kennethgriffin]

Ether


jordan fans are delusional idiots

[kennethgriffin]

Please answer this question directly.

Either there are players, or there aren't players and you simply don't know.


why would teams stack their lineups with guys who dont suit the needs of todays nba

why draft mid range guys when you need long range guys




theres probably a ton of 6-6 or 6-7 athletic players with moderate shooting ability being passed up by teams when 10-15 years ago a team would draft them and teach them how to shoot better gradually




when todays league calls for 3 point specialist stretch traditional 2 guards that dont handle the ball much

teams will pass up on the ball dominant do it all athletic wings that turn point guards into spot up shooters


remember when kobe and jordan won... fisher/kerr were the point guards.. 2 guys who couldnt handle the ball much and just stood in the corner or top shooting threes


thats the old style...


the 2guard and small forward have transitioned back into pre jordan era triditional stretch shooters


that dynamic player is no longer needed.
...

[catch24]

there is... but theyre useless in todays game. and teams draft accordingly

So which ones? Give us names.

:confusedshrug:

[IGOTGAME]

So which ones? Give us names.

:confusedshrug:

Kobe would be demar derozan if he played today...

[catch24]

Kobe would be demar derozan if he played today...

lmfao

I needed a good laugh. thanks brah

[kennethgriffin]

So which ones? Give us names.

:confusedshrug:


demar derozan would be averaging 28-30ppg in the old rules

dwyane wade would still be averaging 27ppg in the old rules

carmelo anthony would still be averaging 27ppg in the old rules

jimmy butler would be averaging 28-30ppg in the old rules

john wall would be a 2guard instead of a point guard. and averaging 27ppg in the old rules

paul george would be at 25+ppg still

rudy gay would be at 25+ppg




theres a few guys like that left. but like i said... theyre a dying breed

[ralph_i_el]

for the longest time as far back as i can remember the best possible player for this league was a dynamic 2 guard or wing that can do everything. post up. shoot mid range. use foot work. isolate. go 1 on 1.



Steph Curry is not a 1 dimensional player

... hes a 2 dimensional player in a 2 dimensional league

passing/threes



This was literally only true for MJ. It's always been a big man's league until recently.

Curry is an all-around offensive stud too. gtfo

[kennethgriffin]

lmfao

I needed a good laugh. thanks brah


2001 or 2002 kobe and jordan would be derozan in todays league



i think kobe adapted to the new rules by expanding his game and stretching his shot to long range


2006-2013 kobe wasnt playing like jordan. he was a curry/jordan hybrid

[kennethgriffin]

This was literally only true for MJ. It's always been a big man's league until recently.

Curry is an all-around offensive stud too. gtfo

youre such a f*cking idiot

:lol

no wonder you have a picture of costanza as your avatar

[Dragonyeuw]

2001 or 2002 kobe and jordan would be derozan in todays league



i think kobe adapted to the new rules by expanding his game and stretching his shot to long range


2006-2013 kobe wasnt playing like jordan. he was a curry/jordan hybrid

Kobe broke the 3point record back in 2003, before the rules. He was already at that point of being a prolific/streaky distance shooter. You claim to be this huge Kobe stan but can't even keep proper track of the evolution of his game through the years. His game shifting to being more perimeter/post based the past 7-8 years is basically the same thing MJ did 20 years ago, not so much due to rule changes but to changes due to his advancing age and needing to adapt to remain great.

[ShawkFactory]

youre such a f*cking idiot

:lol

no wonder you have a picture of costanza as your avatar
Reading through this thread...you are in no position to call someone else an idiot.

Holy shit :eek:

[Foster5k]

:oldlol:

Only on ISH will prime Kobe be compared to Derozan.

[ralph_i_el]

youre such a f*cking idiot

:lol

no wonder you have a picture of costanza as your avatar

You act like there was a Kobe Era or something:facepalm

with your gay ass fred durst looking self

[Sarcastic]

Kobe would be demar derozan if he played today...

:biggums:

Kobe still plays today.

[FKAri]

Old Kobe was better than Derozan just a couple years ago. Yet prime Kobe today would be on the same level? :lol

[Dragonyeuw]

Old Kobe was better than Derozan just a couple years ago. Yet prime Kobe today would be on the same level? :lol

And bear in mind, the owner of that post just called some of us idiots.

[Asukal]

I would love to see the next MJ but I doubt I will in my lifetime. His complete combination of skill, athleticism, intelligence, and will is simply setting the bar too high for anyone. For the meantime, I will be enjoying Curry's run in the next few years if he sustains it. :cheers:

[FKAri]

I would love to see the next MJ but I doubt I will in my lifetime. His complete combination of skill, athleticism, intelligence, and will is simply setting the bar too high for anyone. For the meantime, I will be enjoying Curry's run in the next few years if he sustains it. :cheers:

It will eventually happen. No one could've predicted before they ever saw them guys like Shaq, Lebron, Durant or even Curry. Who knows what outrageous talent is coming.

I know this tho; a team comprised of the best players of the next 50 years would beat any all-time team we can assemble right now.

[Sarcastic]

It will eventually happen. No one could've predicted before they ever saw them guys like Shaq, Lebron, Durant or even Curry. Who knows what outrageous talent is coming.

I know this tho; a team comprised of the best players of the next 50 years would beat any all-time team we can assemble right now.


You talking about the 8 foot point guards that are being conceived today?

[kamil]

Congratulations on finding a new player to stan.

LOL! Perfect first comment.

[LoneyROY7]

http://trendliest.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/durst-fred-photo-xl-fred-durst-6209268.jpg

[Monta Ellis MVP]

As you guys have already come to learn I am a big time Pacers fan but I'm also a Cavaliers fan as well. These last few years have been pretty brutal for us Cavs fans so I am in the same boat as you OP and I know how you feel. I have been watching Golden State a lot and Steph Curry has been a treat to watch. Golden state basketball has been the most enjoyable brand of basketball we have seen in along time and it's great for the NBA and all basketball fans across the world.

[sammichoffate]

You talking about the 8 foot point guards that are being conceived today?http://downtownball.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/ben-simmons-monte-verde.jpg

[Spurs m8]

OP is a fgt

[kennethgriffin]

I think 2001 to 2002 and 2004 to 2005 kobe would have trouble averaging 30 in todays game... that was the basic version of kobe that compares more to jordans game



2003 had a rare season when he could shoot long range consistently... that was due to his strength training in the offseason. Adding 20 pounds of muscle. Deep shots seemed easy for him...

Plus the injuries and surgeries stunted his growth


2006 to 2013 kobe could be just as effective in todays nba with the long range capabilities


The typical jordan mid range and in player is counter productive... jordan would be derozen+ ... kobe would be fine.. but not as effective as curry on offense...

The perfect player takes mostly threes. Thats the efficient way to play

40% threes equals allot more points than 50% on 2 point fg's


Currys style is better than jordans... the only thing that separates the 2 is defense

[GrapeApe]

I'm curious what this place will be like when Curry inevitably has a few poor games where his shots aren't falling. His current level of play is hardly sustainable in an empty gym let alone throughout an NBA season. He's a great player, but let's not forget that just 5 months ago he wasn't even the FMVP in a series that somehow went 6 games against a one-man team.

[GIF REACTION]

Agreed

This is why Lebron is the best in the league and a top 6 GOAT

[kennethgriffin]

Agreed

This is why Lebron is the best in the league and a top 6 GOAT


As long as lebron keeps shooters around him.. he'l be ok


Lebrons passing +role players making up for his lack in range ... that equals 1 steph curry

[Smoke117]

That style is not dead. There's just no 2guards in the league with MJ's and Kobe's skillset. Kobe, with this 'dead' style you're referring to, was playing that style as recently as 2013, at 34/35, and was a top 5 player. So you're saying this 'style' died in 2 years? Put a 28 year old Kobe in today's game, and he'd be doing the same shit he was doing 10 years ago. Rules can change, offensive and defensive schemes evolve with the type of available talent, but transcendent talent will find a way to play and succeed in any era.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m85e8mw00m1rqfhi2o1_250.gif

[ralph_i_el]

I'm curious what this place will be like when Curry inevitably has a few poor games where his shots aren't falling. His current level of play is hardly sustainable in an empty gym let alone throughout an NBA season. He's a great player, but let's not forget that just 5 months ago he wasn't even the FMVP in a series that somehow went 6 games against a one-man team.
He hit 77 straight 3's in an empty gym

[GrapeApe]

I think 2001 to 2002 and 2004 to 2005 kobe would have trouble averaging 30 in todays game... that was the basic version of kobe that compares more to jordans game



2003 had a rare season when he could shoot long range consistently... that was due to his strength training in the offseason. Adding 20 pounds of muscle. Deep shots seemed easy for him...

Plus the injuries and surgeries stunded his growth


2006 to 2013 kobe could be just as effectove in todays nba with the long range capabilities


The typical jordan mid range and in player is counter productive... jordan would be derozen+ ... kobe would be fine.. but not as effective as curry on offense...

The perfect player takes mostly threes. Thats the efficient way to play

40% threes equals allot more points than 50% on 2 point fg's


Currys style is better than jordans... the only thing that separates the 2 is defense

And that gap on the defensive end is HUGE. I mean night and day enormous. Jordan was also a significantly better rebounder, averaged more steals and blocks, was better at finishing at the rim, and created more foul trouble for the opposition.

Is Curry's style more suited to today's league? Yeah, probably, but let's not act like prime Jordan wouldn't still be putting up 30+ points a night on great efficiency. He'd also be doing it at as a lock-down man defender, great ball thief and weak-side rim protector, and consistently getting his defender and interior defenders in foul trouble.

[warriorfan]

I knew you would finally come around.

I remember that thread you made a few months ago about how Steph Curry was one dimensional. Good job learning 2 shits about basketball and seeing the light.

:applause:

[GIF REACTION]

warriorfan reps slim jims

[raprap]

Cant wait to see steph take the #1 spot as the new GOAT. :bowdown:

[Dragonyeuw]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m85e8mw00m1rqfhi2o1_250.gif

I'll throw the same question I asked the other person. Name 5 better in 2013. I'll give you two, Lebron and Durant. Whos the other 3?

[Dragonyeuw]

The typical jordan mid range and in player is counter productive... jordan would be derozen+ ... kobe would be fine.. but not as effective as curry on offense...



Last years scoring champ is primarily mid-range and in. Wade,at 34, is averaging so far 26.5 per 36. But MJ would be a slightly better Derozan. You're not even trying anymore.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'll throw the same question I asked the other person. Name 5 better in 2013. I'll give you two, Lebron and Durant. Whos the other 3?

Kobe was literally the worst defensive player in the NBA. He crushed that teams chemistry from the start of the season, how do you not make the playoffs if it wouldnt be for fixed officiating with Howard and Gasol? Thats new level pathetic. Howard was the best player on that team, and anyone who has eyes saw all the bailing out he had to do defensively with the Nash/Kobe backcourt. Even LA based Newspapers were saying his defense ruined his otherwise great season.

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2013/1/11/3864814/kobe-bryant-is-ruining-kobe-bryants-historic-season

Who was better in 2013, Kobe or Harden?

Harden: 26/5/6 44% FG 60% TS
Kobe: 27/6/6 46% FG 57% TS (Major load of bogus calls padding PPG+FG%)

PER: 23 each
Wins: 45 each
Games: 78 each
Position: SG each
Conference: WC both
Defense: Worst in the NBA both


Harden: 17 FGA
Kobe: 20 FGA

Points per shot:
Kobe: 1.34
Harden: 1.51

How is he distinguishing himself from Harden? They're dead even.

As far as better players, Tony Parker, easily.. second in RAPM, MVP candidate, led the Spurs to the finals.

Moving on: Curry, Westbrook, Paul, Melo...

[kennethgriffin]

I knew you would finally come around.

I remember that thread you made a few months ago about how Steph Curry was one dimensional. Good job learning 2 shits about basketball and seeing the light.

:applause:


its not so much a compliment to curry as much a jab at the way the game is played these days


i was wrong in saying curry was a 1 dimensional player. hes also a good passer

so thats 2 dimensions i guess



basketballs version of "5 tool players" just arent as valuable in todays nba as they were in the old days


curry is the better option on offense in todays game than jordan or kobe.. period.




Bingo Ball

[kennethgriffin]

Last years scoring champ is primarily mid-range and in. Wade,at 34, is averaging so far 26.5 per 36. But MJ would be a slightly better Derozan. You're not even trying anymore.


last years scoring champion was a ball dominant point guard on a lottery team.. and he attempted 4 threes a game.. this year hes at 5 threes a game.. plus westbrook averaged 9 assists



how the hell is westbrook anything like jordan

[catch24]

Kobe was literally the worst defensive player in the NBA. He crushed that teams chemistry from the start of the season, how do you not make the playoffs if it wouldnt be for fixed officiating with Howard and Gasol? Thats new level pathetic. Howard was the best player on that team, and anyone who has eyes saw all the bailing out he had to do defensively with the Nash/Kobe backcourt. Even LA based Newspapers were saying his defense ruined his otherwise great season.

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2013/1/11/3864814/kobe-bryant-is-ruining-kobe-bryants-historic-season

Who was better in 2013, Kobe or Harden?

Harden: 26/5/6 44% FG 60% TS
Kobe: 27/6/6 46% FG 57% TS (Major load of bogus calls padding PPG+FG%)

PER: 23 each
Wins: 45 each
Games: 78 each
Position: SG each
Conference: WC both
Defense: Worst in the NBA both


Harden: 17 FGA
Kobe: 20 FGA

Points per shot:
Kobe: 1.34
Harden: 1.51

How is he distinguishing himself from Harden? They're dead even.

As far as better players, Tony Parker, easily.. second in RAPM, MVP candidate, led the Spurs to the finals.

Moving on: Curry, Westbrook, Paul, Melo...

lol at this garbage

How do you pad stats when you're fighting for a playoff spot?

Fixed officiating? Padding stats? :oldlol: You realize you could do this for LeBron and most of your favorite players... Nobody that isn't a biased clown would make those arguments though.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

lol at this garbage

How do you pad stats when you're fighting for a playoff spot?

Fixed officiating? Padding stats? :oldlol: You realize you could do this for LeBron and most of your favorite players... Nobody that isn't a biased clown would make those arguments though.

LeBron does tend to stat pad.

[catch24]

demar derozan would be averaging 28-30ppg in the old rules

So Kobe today = Derozan on offense, and Derozan back in the day = Kobe on offense.

Nice.

You and "IGOTGAME" are fukking imbeciles.

[HighFlyer23]

The amount of hype this little girl is getting is ridiculous though

[ArbitraryWater]

lol at this garbage

How do you pad stats when you're fighting for a playoff spot?

Fixed officiating? Padding stats? :oldlol: You realize you could do this for LeBron and most of your favorite players... Nobody that isn't a biased clown would make those arguments though.

Did you miss the "bogus calls" part? (Btw, padding stats has nothing to do with team standing but late game situations lol) I agree its unecessary for a Harden comparison however, since both were the Kings of bogus calls that year, alongside their terrible defense.

Oh look, a Lakers fan acting outraged at someone bringing the officiating card.. I hate to do it, it comes across terrible, but it cant be avoided... the GSW/LAL was one of the most terribly games since Lakers/Kings '02.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5VeVKf2EHI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG--YA80FsE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRumli2qLqg

Look at this and tell me there wasn't shit going on there. Coach Nick called it out, too.

As far as the overall refereeing in the 2nd half of that season:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MhmGyZ7KF0 (still surprised this video is still up)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUKbs2Y4vo8

[plowking]

Guys -- Jordan as a defender is capable of ruining Curry's day. Not every day, but many days.

Curry is fantastic but I have one word for anyone comparing him to MJ

Delavadavodava

He had like 1 and a half bad games against him.

I won't pretend I wasn't excited seeing a fellow Aussie bother him for a bit, but it was so overblown.

Dude still put up 26ppg on great efficiency in the finals.

[warriorfan]

He had like 1 and a half bad games against him.

I won't pretend I wasn't excited seeing a fellow Aussie bother him for a bit, but it was so overblown.

Dude still put up 26ppg on great efficiency in the finals.

I guess when you are the new GOAT, the bar is pretty high.

It's ok, Curry looks like he has advanced to the next level and he might still be getting better..

[plowking]

Curry is a great defender too. Don't know why his average teammate, who is average at defense, Klay, gets hyped so much, while Curry doesn't get his acclaim on that end.

[catch24]

Did you miss the "bogus calls" part? (Btw, padding stats has nothing to do with team standing but late game situations lol) I agree its unecessary for a Harden comparison however, since both were the Kings of bogus calls that year, alongside their terrible defense.

Oh look, a Lakers fan acting outraged at someone bringing the officiating card.. I hate to do it, it comes across terrible, but it cant be avoided... the GSW/LAL was one of the most terribly games since Lakers/Kings '02.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5VeVKf2EHI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG--YA80FsE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRumli2qLqg

Look at this and tell me there wasn't shit going on there. Coach Nick called it out, too.

As far as the overall refereeing in the 2nd half of that season:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MhmGyZ7KF0 (still surprised this video is still up)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUKbs2Y4vo8

You could literally translate this into "I am super biased against Kobe and the Lakers". It would read better than this nonsense (stuff you could nitpick with MOST players, including LeBron).

Shitting on Kobe's season, and acting like his game was based on poor officiating and padded stats is lame. :oldlol: Be a better basketball fan.

[Dragonyeuw]

Kobe was literally the worst defensive player in the NBA. He crushed that teams chemistry from the start of the season, how do you not make the playoffs if it wouldnt be for fixed officiating with Howard and Gasol? Thats new level pathetic. Howard was the best player on that team, and anyone who has eyes saw all the bailing out he had to do defensively with the Nash/Kobe backcourt. Even LA based Newspapers were saying his defense ruined his otherwise great season.

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2013/1/11/3864814/kobe-bryant-is-ruining-kobe-bryants-historic-season

Who was better in 2013, Kobe or Harden?

Harden: 26/5/6 44% FG 60% TS
Kobe: 27/6/6 46% FG 57% TS (Major load of bogus calls padding PPG+FG%)

PER: 23 each
Wins: 45 each
Games: 78 each
Position: SG each
Conference: WC both
Defense: Worst in the NBA both


Harden: 17 FGA
Kobe: 20 FGA

Points per shot:
Kobe: 1.34
Harden: 1.51

How is he distinguishing himself from Harden? They're dead even.

As far as better players, Tony Parker, easily.. second in RAPM, MVP candidate, led the Spurs to the finals.

Moving on: Curry, Westbrook, Paul, Melo...

Lebron
Durant

All the other names you're throwing in there are debatable. And even if you put all those name over Kobe, that still puts him top 10, or are you arguing that too?

[Monta Ellis MVP]

Did you miss the "bogus calls" part? (Btw, padding stats has nothing to do with team standing but late game situations lol) I agree its unecessary for a Harden comparison however, since both were the Kings of bogus calls that year, alongside their terrible defense.

Oh look, a Lakers fan acting outraged at someone bringing the officiating card.. I hate to do it, it comes across terrible, but it cant be avoided... the GSW/LAL was one of the most terribly games since Lakers/Kings '02.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5VeVKf2EHI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG--YA80FsE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRumli2qLqg

Look at this and tell me there wasn't shit going on there. Coach Nick called it out, too.

As far as the overall refereeing in the 2nd half of that season:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MhmGyZ7KF0 (still surprised this video is still up)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUKbs2Y4vo8

As a lifelong Pacers fan and also a Cavaliers fan, just stop. This is not a good look for us.

[ArbitraryWater]

You could literally translate this into "I am super biased against Kobe and the Lakers". It would read better than this nonsense (stuff you could nitpick with MOST players, including LeBron).

Shitting on Kobe's season, and acting like his game was based on poor officiating and padded stats is lame. :oldlol: Be a better basketball fan.

As expected, no rebuttal.. watch those videos and any honest person would say the refereeing was shady as shit :oldlol:


Lebron
Durant

All the other names you're throwing in there are debatable. And even if you put all those name over Kobe, that still puts him top 10, or are you arguing that too?

Top 10 is far different from top 3, no issue

I wonder why no one brings up his defense. If you look only offensively, people have Kobe 3rd, based on that... what makes you think including his atrocious defense he somehow is still 3rd?

[plowking]

You could literally translate this into "I am super biased against Kobe and the Lakers". It would read better than this nonsense (stuff you could nitpick with MOST players, including LeBron).

Shitting on Kobe's season, and acting like his game was based on poor officiating and padded stats is lame. :oldlol: Be a better basketball fan.

His season wasn't based on whistles, but the Lakers season was.

No way they would have been in the playoffs if it was called fairly.

[90sgoat]

And that gap on the defensive end is HUGE. I mean night and day enormous. Jordan was also a significantly better rebounder, averaged more steals and blocks, was better at finishing at the rim, and created more foul trouble for the opposition.

Is Curry's style more suited to today's league? Yeah, probably, but let's not act like prime Jordan wouldn't still be putting up 30+ points a night on great efficiency. He'd also be doing it at as a lock-down man defender, great ball thief and weak-side rim protector, and consistently getting his defender and interior defenders in foul trouble.

Jordan would be like a much better Kawhi Leonard in this league. Kawhi gets 20 points on cuts and mid range jumpers without much difficulty. Jordan might also get close to Kawhi's rebounding, could even see him average close to 10 a game, because there's far fewer rebound centers and forwards, no box out, and longer rebounds due to more 3s.

Kenneth is right though, this league is pathetically boring to watch for anyone who watched the 90s.

[Dragonyeuw]

Top 10 is far different from top 3, no issue

I wonder why no one brings up his defense. If you look only offensively, people have Kobe 3rd, based on that... what makes you think including his atrocious defense he somehow is still 3rd?

I didnt say he was top 3, I said top 5. I only gave two no-brainer, inarguable players in Lebron and Durant. After that, the picture gets a little murkier. Hell, lists are subjective anyway. Im not nitpicking over whether he was 4th best, or 8th best. That wasnt the intent of my point initially.

[GrapeApe]

Jordan would be like a much better Kawhi Leonard in this league. Kawhi gets 20 points on cuts and mid range jumpers without much difficulty. Jordan might also get close to Kawhi's rebounding, could even see him average close to 10 a game, because there's far fewer rebound centers and forwards, no box out, and longer rebounds due to more 3s.

Kenneth is right though, this league is pathetically boring to watch for anyone who watched the 90s.

I think Jordan would be like a combination of Leonard and Harden. He'd combine Leonard's defense, midrange, and off-ball play with Harden's ability to create off the dribble and get to the line. I could easily see prime Jordan averaging 8-9 boards and 7-8 assists to go along with his 30+ ppg.

I know he averaged 33/8/8 one season but I think he'd be able to put up similar numbers today on a good team and within the flow of the game. Probably around 30/8/7 on good efficiency and elite defense on a 60+ win contending team.

[ArbitraryWater]

I think Jordan would be like a combination of Leonard and Harden. He'd combine Leonard's defense, midrange, and off-ball play with Harden's ability to create off the dribble and get to the line. I could easily see prime Jordan averaging 8-9 boards and 7-8 assists to go along with his 30+ ppg.

Why would MJ's rebounds and assists skyrocket?

[knicksman]

nah. its harder to shoot 3s than midrange. Skill wise. Curry is just an upgrade of the 2. He just improves their games. Just like kobe improved jordans game. the game is just evolving

[DoctorP]

for the longest time as far back as i can remember the best possible player for this league was a dynamic 2 guard or wing that can do everything. post up. shoot mid range. use foot work. isolate. go 1 on 1.


this style is dead. its an ancient religion


i held onto kobe for the last few years thinking that style could rise from the ashes. thinking it would translate into andrew wiggins and we'd ride him off into the sunset.

i was wrong. the media was wrong. the nba was wrong.


andrew wiggins style does not suit the new era/rules/way the game is played


when this league transitioned into a PG's league and shooters league. it was the death sentance to "the next michael jordan" mantra

kobe bryant was seemingly the last player we will ever see dominate with that style.. but even he added the long range shot to his game to make it work..

and even lebron james had to play PG in order to have any chance... the heat had a bunch of outside shooters to make up for lebrons ineptitude...

it was a man by the name of ray allen whom saved lebrons career. with what? a three pointer.. the new tool of choice for champions of today


the spurs used it

the warriors used it

the heat used it


its how you win in todays league. and the best guy to lead the charge is a 3 point shooting ball dominant point guard


Steph Curry is not a 1 dimensional player

... hes a 2 dimensional player in a 2 dimensional league

passing/threes

this is our new prototypical michael jordan... aka best possible player

R.I.P next MJ

long live "next curry"

http://i65.tinypic.com/suzklk.jpg


repped. will read again.

:eek: :eek:

[tontoz]

kobe stretched his game to adapt to the new nba


in 2013 most of his big games came with shots like this



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQd2h4X0O2E



kobe was basically a hybrid curry in 2013... ball dominant top of the key run around screens .. lots of long range shots


kobe still did some mid range work and back to the basket stuff..

but lets be honest. how effective was this style. how good was LA?

:roll:

Kobe was absolutely nothing like Curry. The only thing they have in common is taking a lot of long range shots. Curry makes them at an elite percentage and Kobe makes them at a poor percentage.

[GrapeApe]

Why would MJ's rebounds and assists skyrocket?

I don't think they'd "skyrocket", but as 90sgoat mentioned there's more rebounding opportunities for perimeter players in today's league. Harden averaged 6 boards an he's shorter and less athletic than Jordan. I don't think it's a stretch to say Jordan could average 8 rpg. Harden also averaged 7 assists, and Jordan presumably would have a similar offensive role (though MJ would be much more active off the ball. Harden is one of the most stationary off-ball players I've ever seen)

I think 30/8/7/3/1.5 on great efficiency is very realistic for prime Jordan.

[plowking]

I don't think they'd "skyrocket", but as 90sgoat mentioned there's more rebounding opportunities for perimeter players in today's league. Harden averaged 6 boards an he's shorter and less athletic than Jordan. I don't think it's a stretch to say Jordan could average 8 rpg. Harden also averaged 7 assists, and Jordan presumably would have a similar offensive role (though MJ would be much more active off the ball. Harden is one of the most stationary off-ball players I've ever seen)

I think 30/8/7/3/1.5 on great efficiency is very realistic for prime Jordan.

lol he ain't upping his boards and assists by that much.

Prime Jordan, checking the stat sheet constantly throughout the game in 88 was only averaging 8apg. You expect him to do it now through the flow of the game? Nah. Jordan was a 5-6apg type, and that is what he would stay.

Not sure what athleticism or anything has to do with rebounding. You grab as many as you hustle for. Some players have a better knack for it. Shaq is a better athlete than K.Love ten times over, yet he never grabbed as many boards as Love did.

[poido123]

lol he ain't upping his boards and assists by that much.

Prime Jordan, checking the stat sheet constantly throughout the game in 88 was only averaging 8apg. You expect him to do it now through the flow of the game? Nah. Jordan was a 5-6apg type, and that is what he would stay.

Not sure what athleticism or anything has to do with rebounding. You grab as many as you hustle for. Some players have a better knack for it. Shaq is a better athlete than K.Love ten times over, yet he never grabbed as many boards as Love did.


averaged over 10 assists for half a season. put MJ in a point guard role and he'd average 10 easily.

he was a 5-6 assist guy beause his main role was to score.

[plowking]

averaged over 10 assists for half a season. put MJ in a point guard role and he'd average 10 easily.

he was a 5-6 assist guy beause his main role was to score.

He wouldn't average 10apg for a season.

Come the f*ck on. :oldlol:

You have John Wall and Chris Paul struggling to get to 10apg and they play the point guard, while being some of the best passers ever. :oldlol:
Jordan isn't sniffing 10apg.
He isn't anywhere close to good enough a passer, nor does he have the style of game for it.

He literally averaged 8apg over the course of the season, and 10apg for that 30 game stretch while yelling, and telling his players to consistently take bad shots so it could result in an assist on the stat sheet for him. In the natural flow of the game, the most he could average was 6apg. That is him as a player.
A SG who scores, who could also create effectively.

He isn't some great passer, nor is he close to the best SG passer. He is a really good one though.

[90sgoat]

For anyone who watch and the former players commentating, there is a real lack of boxing out, if kids even know what it is anymore.

With the small ball, the more athletic wings also rebound more.

MJ would get a shit ton of put back slams, he'd have more highlights than the rest of the league combined.

All he needs is a high pick and roll and it is over. Legit over. Either dunk with 2-3 steps or pass to Steve Kerr in the corner.

30-10-10

[raprap]

He wouldn't average 10apg for a season.

Come the f*ck on. :oldlol:

You have John Wall and Chris Paul struggling to get to 10apg and they play the point guard, while being some of the best passers ever. :oldlol:
Jordan isn't sniffing 10apg.
He isn't anywhere close to good enough a passer, nor does he have the style of game for it.

He literally averaged 8apg over the course of the season, and 10apg for that 30 game stretch while yelling, and telling his players to consistently take bad shots so it could result in an assist on the stat sheet for him. In the natural flow of the game, the most he could average was 6apg. That is him as a player.
A SG who scores, who could also create effectively.

He isn't some great passer, nor is he close to the best SG passer. He is a really good one though.
Yep.

[FrenchDude]

in todays league/style

curry is the greatest player you could possibly choose to lead a team RIGHT NOW


wilt/shaq types = exposed with spamming hackashaq teams, rules that dont promote back to the basket games


jordan/kobe types = not utilizing threes and passing nearly enough




sorry to everyone that enjoyed all around basketball.. but all you'l be seeing a bunch of 3 point chuckers until the rules go back to normal

this league is ****ing shit to me right now.. so boring its pathetic



i try watching warriors games but i dunno how people can get into that bingo shit

You are absolutely right.

It sickens me to watch players trying to dominate with the three pointers.
I really enjoyed Steph Curry NCAA prowess when he was at Davidson, but he is one of a kind....
Soon we'll see Okafor and Towns jacking three pointers if that's not already the case :facepalm , heck DMC and a bunch of other centers already do it.

I enjoy a more diverse brand of basketball....