Rank the new wave of 2-way Wings (Leonard/Butler/George)

[GIF REACTION]

This is actually kind of hard IMO

I'll go

1. Leonard
2. George
3. Butler

[Rocketswin2013]

Leonard
George
Butler

I say this knowing Leonard was killed on both in during the playoffs but I do think he is better than the other two anyway.

[3ball]

This is actually kind of hard IMO

I'll go

1. Leonard
2. George
3. Butler


Wing players are rewarded and branded as defenders more today than they were in previous eras.. The two-way players listed below were all equal defenders with comparable defensive stats to the guys you listed (dbpm and drtg), but they weren't branded and talked about in the media the way today's wings are.

Derrick McKey
Anthony Mason
Stacey Augmon
Clyde Drexler
Keith Askins
Robert Horry
Rodney McCray
Jerome Kersey
.

[Gileraracer]

George
Leonard
Butler


Leonard is good, but in my opinion he is a little overrated because of the Spurs a a whole. Georg was a beast before injury and Butler was great last year.

[Naero]

1. Jimmy Butler.

2. Kawhi Leonard.

3. Paul George.

Jimmy Butler has shown the best trajectory out of all three by far, which is the best predictor we have for who will emerge superlatively out of this bevy.

Since Butler has been much more of a workhorse than both and will also be accentuated more in Fred Hoiberg's offense, who has encouraged him to be more assertive, you can expect his production to broaden the discrepancy even more this upcoming season.

[kshutts1]

Wing players are rewarded and branded as defenders more today than they were in previous eras.. The two-way players listed below were all equal defenders with comparable defensive stats to the guys you listed (dbpm and drtg), but they weren't branded and talked about in the media the way today's wings are.

Derrick McKey
Anthony Mason
Stacey Augmon
Clyde Drexler
Keith Askins
Robert Horry
Rodney McCray
Jerome Kersey
.
Other than Drexler being in that list...

:wtf:

[dunksby]

Oladipo is an underrated two way perimeter player too, keep an eye on him this season.

[swagga]

Wing players are rewarded and branded as defenders more today than they were in previous eras.. The two-way players listed below were all equal defenders with comparable defensive stats to the guys you listed (dbpm and drtg), but they weren't branded and talked about in the media the way today's wings are.

Derrick McKey
Anthony Mason
Stacey Augmon
Clyde Drexler
Keith Askins
Robert Horry
Rodney McCray
Jerome Kersey
.

niggga can you read?

[SugarHill]

jimmy butt
kawhi
PG

[swagga]

This is actually kind of hard IMO

I'll go

1. Leonard
2. George
3. Butler

george is/was in another tier imo. His offense/range/jumper really sets him apart from the other 2. Problem is he isn't as consistent as the other 2, but he is the only one that can go head to head with a big time player like lebron or durant.

Leonard is a bit overrated. Benefits a lot from a stacked team, he can gamble more, he isn't the center of attention on offense. He is a very good player tho, all star without a doubt. I'd take him over klay thompson or lillard without blinking.

Jury is out on butler, needs one more solid season to establish himself.

[swagga]

Oladipo is an underrated two way perimeter player too, keep an eye on him this season.

how's his range? I always saw him as an uberathletic player without a consistent jumpshot.. kinda like a young wade.

[Uncle Drew]

> Rank these 3 players in 2015
> Comes with a list of irrelevant players in the 90's

http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/barney-stinson-kill-myself-boring-suicide-neil-patrick-harris-How-I-Met-Your-Mother.gif

[Paul George 24]

George
Leonard
Butler


Leonard is good, but in my opinion he is a little overrated because of the Spurs a a whole. Georg was a beast before injury and Butler was great last year.

GEORGE IS OVERRATED,LEONARD IS UNDERRATED :applause:

[Paul George 24]

george is/was in another tier imo. His offense/range/jumper really sets him apart from the other 2. Problem is he isn't as consistent as the other 2, but he is the only one that can go head to head with a big time player like lebron or durant.

Leonard is a bit overrated. Benefits a lot from a stacked team, he can gamble more, he isn't the center of attention on offense. He is a very good player tho, all star without a doubt. I'd take him over klay thompson or lillard without blinking.

Jury is out on butler, needs one more solid season to establish himself.

MIAMI STAN STILL BITTING :roll:

[KobesFinger]

Wing players are rewarded and branded as defenders more today than they were in previous eras.. The two-way players listed below were all equal defenders with comparable defensive stats to the guys you listed (dbpm and drtg), but they weren't branded and talked about in the media the way today's wings are.

Derrick McKey 1.5 (2.9)
Anthony Mason 1.9 (3.0)
Stacey Augmon 0.8 (3.4)
Clyde Drexler 1.5 (2.4)
Keith Askins 1.4 (2.5)
Robert Horry 2.8 (4.0)
Rodney McCray 1.2 (1.9)
Jerome Kersey 2.0 (3.5)
.

First number is career DBPM with peak in brackets. Mason and Horry were 4s so why are you counting them as wings? That's like me listing Draymond Green. As well as that, most of the guys aren't 2-way guys. I wouldn't call Kawhi a 2-way guy either in all honesty

Whenever I ask why you don't include DRtg when comparing Jordan and LeBron, you say (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11780117&postcount=91) its not reliable and meaningless when comparing players across areas, yet you want us to include it here? What is consistency?

Kawhi Leonard 3.0 (3.5)
Paul George 2.1 (2.9)
Jimmy Butler 1.3 (2.4)

Kawhi Leonard has the highest career DBPM (and has a DPOY to his name), and the joint highest peak DBPM. George has the 3rd highest career DBPM (2nd if you take out PF Horry) and joint 5th peak.

Back to the topic at hand. As defenders, it goes Leonard, George, Butler as most people agree. As two way players, it might be the same.

PG gets more assists and scores more, although he scores at a lower efficiency. It could be argued that Leonard is either suppressed or carried by Pop's system. A wash.

[RidonKs]

leonard's hands are the best asset of the bunch. he's also the smartest of the three in the best system of the three with more early experience than most anybody in the history of the league can dream of.

i've also been really impressed by his footwork around the paint. he creates separation for his midrange game very easily already. he isn't afraid to bang with his shoulders and his elbows.

it feels like leonard has been raised by the spurs in just the right way. taking on a little bit more each season, never far from veterans who can swoop in and save him, but forced on an island often enough to build his confidence. he has being eased into shouldering the scoring load like an old man lowering himself into a bath. i really like his development.



i think george is easily at the bottom of this list. he's the quickest, he is the most versatile scorer, he's on the worst team, and he's got the most to prove of the three; he will probably figure at the top of the conversation this season. i worry about that skinny frame. compared to butler who is the exact opposite, just a total tank, i bet moving forward he loses his step first and the other two move past him.

butler's game is the most intriguing. he hasn't been given enough iso touches for us to really know his pet moves and where he's most comfortable. he's good coming off screens looking to score... can he be effective in the post? especially when noah is in and pau/gibson are out.




imo,
1. leonard
2. butler
3. george

[chips93]

The pacers could have george and leonard right now if they hadnt made the george hill trade.

that'd be a freakishly good wing pairing, the best in the league probably.

[WayOfWade]

Where's Gordon Hayward?! He was drafted ahead of Paul George!

[RidonKs]

Where's Gordon Hayward?! He was drafted ahead of Paul George!
hayward is in a different mold. more of the iguodala type. none of the other three are pass first (though butler and leonard were in pass first systems) whereas i get the sense that's haywards mentality. i'd compare him more to khris middleton

[chips93]

all four guys have shown incredible growth since thier time as rookies.

butler was just a defensive guy/athlete, with little offense. kawhi came in as an undersized rebounding 4, and george was just an athlete with a jumper. they've all rounded themselves into multi dimensional scorers.


butler's game is the most intriguing. he hasn't been given enough iso touches for us to really know his pet moves and where he's most comfortable. he's good coming off screens looking to score... can he be effective in the post? especially when noah is in and pau/gibson are out.

he actually got a decent amount of possessions in the post last year and was effective.

hes too strong for most wings down there, and his turnaround jumper is good enough to keep the defense honest.

[dunksby]

how's his range? I always saw him as an uberathletic player without a consistent jumpshot.. kinda like a young wade.
Well last year he had a reasonable fg% but generally was poor at midrange and behind the arc. If you ask me it's mostly a shot selection problem, he was still finding his sweet spots. In my opinio, if he sticks to his comfort zones and shoot from there he'd be very efficien. He has to keep working on his jump shots though, right now it's easy to get him out of his zone and force him to take bad shots.
All in all for a rookie he wasn't so bad, will probablyhhave a much better sophomore year.

[inclinerator]

klay thompson
jimmy butler

paul george

























kawhi leonard

[Sportal]

PG
Leonard
Butler

Feel that Paul George is going to be LeBron/KD/AD level this season.

[LoneyROY7]

George is the best on offense, Kawhi is the best on defense, and Butler might have the better mix.

Tough call.

[GabeIsGone]

kawhi leonard
jimmy butler

paul george
























klay thompson

Fixed

[Smoke117]

Wing players are rewarded and branded as defenders more today than they were in previous eras.. The two-way players listed below were all equal defenders with comparable defensive stats to the guys you listed (dbpm and drtg), but they weren't branded and talked about in the media the way today's wings are.

Derrick McKey
Anthony Mason
Stacey Augmon
Clyde Drexler
Keith Askins
Robert Horry
Rodney McCray
Jerome Kersey
.

Notice how 3ball left out Scottie Pippen. Apparently, he was not one of the best two way wings in the league. lol

[houston]

george
bulter
leonard

[3ball]

Whenever I ask why you don't include DRtg when comparing Jordan and LeBron, you say (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11780117&postcount=91) its not reliable and meaningless when comparing players across areas, yet you want us to include it here? What is consistency?


It isn't reliable - but that's what today's media and voters use to award all-nba defensive team, whereas that was never used in previous eras.

So if we're going by those useless stats, all the guys I listed have comparable DPBM and DRtg...

Btw, Kawhi isn't much of an offensive player, but I guess some of the guys I listed from the 90's weren't much better.

[bobopenguin]

where's klay Thompson?
he deserves a mention! stop leaving him out cos he's a light skin!

[KobesFinger]

It isn't reliable - but that's what today's media and voters use to award all-nba defensive team, whereas that was never used in previous eras.

So if we're going by those useless stats, all the guys I listed have comparable DPBM and DRtg...

Btw, Kawhi isn't much of an offensive player, but I guess some of the guys I listed from the 90's weren't much better.

Proof? Jeff Teague, George Hill and Mike Conley had lower DRtg's than CP3 but they didn't make a team. Bogut was 2nd in the league over DJ in 6th, but guess who made the first team?

[3ball]

Proof? Jeff Teague, George Hill and Mike Conley had lower DRtg's than CP3 but they didn't make a team. Bogut was 2nd in the league over DJ in 6th, but guess who made the first team?
voters used rapm to give the dpoy to marc gasol a couple years ago... I almost fell out of my chair

[r0drig0lac]

1- the guy who was FMVP and DPOY and has the highest ceiling
2- PG
3- Butler