View Full Version : Which moves can Lebron even do?
90sgoat
10-10-2015, 01:13 PM
Inspired by the thread of Karl Malone here(http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387103), I began thinking, Malone had all these great technical moves, which moves does Lebron have and use?
Hook shots - nope
Floater - nope
Jab step to jump shot - nope
Up and under layup - nope
Reverse layup - nope
Spin move - nope
Crossover ankle breaker - nope
Fadeaway - sort of but poor form
Drop step - nope
Up and under post move - nope
Seriously, Lebron has an incredibly limited offensive arsenal. He feasts on open layups due to the defensive 3 second rule.
20Four
10-10-2015, 01:15 PM
Inspired by the thread of Karl Malone here(http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387103), I began thinking, Malone had all these great technical moves, which moves does Lebron have and use?
Hook shots - nope
Floater - nope
Jab step to jump shot - nope
Up and under layup - nope
Reverse layup - nope
Spin move - nope
Crossover ankle breaker - nope
Fadeaway - sort of but poor form
Drop step - nope
Up and under post move - nope
Seriously, Lebron has an incredibly limited offensive arsenal. He feasts on open layups due to the defensive 3 second rule.
As a big leBRONZE fan here, he doesn't have any of those shots......:(
FreezingTsmoove
10-10-2015, 01:15 PM
Inspired by the thread of Karl Malone here(http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387103), I began thinking, Malone had all these great technical moves, which moves does Lebron have and use?
Hook shots - nope
Floater - nope
Jab step to jump shot - nope
Up and under layup - nope
Reverse layup - nope
Spin move - nope
Crossover ankle breaker - nope
Fadeaway - sort of but poor form
Drop step - nope
Up and under post move - nope
Seriously, Lebron has an incredibly limited offensive arsenal. He feasts on open layups due to the defensive 3 second rule.
I'm a huge Lebron fan but even I know thats not true
dubeta
10-10-2015, 01:15 PM
Everything Jordan had + a legit 3 point game
20Four
10-10-2015, 01:16 PM
Everything Jordan had + a legit 3 point game
Keep talking shit, when February comes, yo ass is done
ISHGoat
10-10-2015, 01:16 PM
Everything Jordan had + a legit 3 point game
:applause:
HOoopCityJones
10-10-2015, 01:18 PM
Everything Jordan had + a legit 3 point game
You know damn well that shit isn't true.
Ni99a can barley make a jump shot within 5ft of the hoop.
ShawkFactory
10-10-2015, 01:19 PM
He literally does all of those except the crossover ankle breaker.
Mr. Jabbar
10-10-2015, 01:19 PM
I consider Lebron my blood brother. I love him that much. But truth be told, he has NO moves other than uncontested dunks, NONE, period
:(
20Four
10-10-2015, 01:19 PM
You know damn well that shit isn't true.
Ni99a can barley make a jump shot within 5ft of the hoop.
he just craves for attention dont pay attention to him....his life sucks so much he goes online just to troll to get people to talk to him, how sad is that? To make it worse, he logs into his other alt accounts just to talk to himself to give him props....like WTF? Who does that?
dubeta
10-10-2015, 01:23 PM
Between LeBron and MJ, who's better at?
Attacking the Basket? LeBron
Shooting the 3? LeBron
Passing? LeBron
Rebounding? LeBron
Perimeter defense? Jordan
Interior Defense? LeBron
So other than perimeter defense, LeBron is better than Jordan is literally every other aspect of basketball. No one can argue this.
But you'll never hear 3ball admit it
dubeta
10-10-2015, 01:24 PM
You know damn well that shit isn't true.
Ni99a can barley make a jump shot within 5ft of the hoop.
Ni99a has a higher career and peak 3 point shooting percent than Kobe
JT123
10-10-2015, 01:25 PM
Everything Jordan had + a legit 3 point game
Ether. 3ball destroyed again. :applause:
BoutPractice
10-10-2015, 01:46 PM
I could find a plethora of clips for just about every move you mentioned but I won't bother.
Without even taking the time to properly search:
Floater https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tONHNocNr6w
Hook https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI9PD5FEcys
Jab step to jump shot... seriously? Do you watch him at all? He does several of those every game.
Up and under layup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLbKv4M326c
Reverse layup... shouldn't even dignify that one, he's one of the greats at this, but here's a random one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxVsxNFdBKM
Spin move... again, does one of those about once a game, here's a random example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2pnN2cfYmI
Crossovers and ankle breakers... the first video to come up is literally a compilation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ2gNuQLBW4
Fadeaway... about one or two per game. Here's a Dirk leg just for fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwmZEhD3YpE
Drop step https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ5GZhEYLnk
Up and under post move https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HuVnSUDemA
There. Took me less than two minutes. I'm sure a stan will come up with something more detailed, but that a non-stan can check your entire list in under two minutes by just typing the name of the move on youtube should tell you something about the utter stupidity of this thread.
Suguru101
10-10-2015, 02:35 PM
I could find a plethora of clips for just about every move you mentioned but I won't bother.
Without even taking the time to properly search:
Floater https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tONHNocNr6w
Hook https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI9PD5FEcys
Jab step to jump shot... seriously? Do you watch him at all? He does several of those every game.
Up and under layup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLbKv4M326c
Reverse layup... shouldn't even dignify that one, he's one of the greats at this, but here's a random one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxVsxNFdBKM
Spin move... again, does one of those about once a game, here's a random example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2pnN2cfYmI
Crossovers and ankle breakers... the first video to come up is literally a compilation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ2gNuQLBW4
Fadeaway... about one or two per game. Here's a Dirk leg just for fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwmZEhD3YpE
Drop step https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ5GZhEYLnk
Up and under post move https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HuVnSUDemA
There. Took me less than two minutes. I'm sure a stan will come up with something more detailed, but that a non-stan can check your entire list in under two minutes by just typing the name of the move on youtube should tell you something about the utter stupidity of this thread.
And..... they're gone.
:applause:
sportjames23
10-10-2015, 03:05 PM
I consider Lebron my blood brother. I love him that much. But truth be told, he has NO moves other than uncontested dunks, NONE, period
:(
Me and Lebron even have the same last names, so you know I'm a big fan, and even I must agree that uncontested dunks are his only moves.
Megabox!
10-10-2015, 03:25 PM
I could find a plethora of clips for just about every move you mentioned but I won't bother.
Without even taking the time to properly search:
Floater https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tONHNocNr6w
Hook https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI9PD5FEcys
Jab step to jump shot... seriously? Do you watch him at all? He does several of those every game.
Up and under layup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLbKv4M326c
Reverse layup... shouldn't even dignify that one, he's one of the greats at this, but here's a random one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxVsxNFdBKM
Spin move... again, does one of those about once a game, here's a random example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2pnN2cfYmI
Crossovers and ankle breakers... the first video to come up is literally a compilation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ2gNuQLBW4
Fadeaway... about one or two per game. Here's a Dirk leg just for fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwmZEhD3YpE
Drop step https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ5GZhEYLnk
Up and under post move https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HuVnSUDemA
There. Took me less than two minutes. I'm sure a stan will come up with something more detailed, but that a non-stan can check your entire list in under two minutes by just typing the name of the move on youtube should tell you something about the utter stupidity of this thread. :applause: :applause: :applause: another L for the insecure Jordan dick riders. How can you stan the GOAT and still end up taking so many L's? :lol
Mr. Jabbar
10-10-2015, 04:31 PM
Me and Lebron even have the same last names, so you know I'm a big fan, and even I must agree that uncontested dunks are his only moves.
I came here to defend Lebron but wow... If you, who share his last name, say this, its time to pack my things and take this huge L with me.
:(
3ball
10-10-2015, 04:40 PM
Floaterhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tONHNocNr6w
The play is in transition where he can gain momentum, not the halfcourt, which requires superior skill to do the same moves.
Hook https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI9PD5FEcys
He needed a screen, which gave him the head of steam he needs to do a move..
He can't consistently resort to that move on the post from a stand-still.. There's too much skill and nuance involved for that.. and two-foot leaping.
Spin move https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2pnN2cfYmI
More easy transition.. :sleeping
Fadeaway... about one or two per game. Here's a Dirk leg just for fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwmZEhD3YpE
Ugly AF... Herky-jerky, not polished and smooth.. This is one of the reasons Lebron's midrange stats are horrible.. He's bad at it.
Drop step https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ5GZhEYLnk
Up and under post move https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HuVnSUDemA
Ugly AF and super-weak with no explosion... Compare to the goat's drop-steps shown above.
Lebron is a horrible two-foot leaper with average post moves, at best.. That's why he posts up less than 15% of the time with below-average to horrible efficiency.
.
JT123
10-10-2015, 05:49 PM
3ball now using his main account to try and save his thread. :oldlol:
TripleA
10-10-2015, 06:01 PM
The play is in transition where he can gain momentum, not the halfcourt, which requires superior skill to do the same moves.
He needed a screen, which gave him the head of steam he needs to do a move..
He can't consistently resort to that move on the post from a stand-still.. There's too much skill and nuance involved for that.. and two-foot leaping.
Ugly AF.. Herky-jerky and not polished or skilled..
A real up-and-under uses the defenders own momentum against him, like aikido or something.. See the goat do it, here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FERPEtMYpes&t=3m39s
Another one in transition, which makes it easier... :sleeping
Try doing a reverse layup off a off a drop-step, again, in the halfcourt - that's the goat skill and athleticism:
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-13-2015/LJ8raP.gif
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-03-2015/P5BrOZ.gif
More easy transition.. :sleeping
Ugly AF... Herky-jerky, not polished and smooth.. This is one of the reasons Lebron's midrange stats are horrible.. He's bad at it.
Ugly AF and super-weak with no explosion... Compare to the goat's drop-steps shown above.
Lebron is a horrible two-foot leaper with average post moves, at best.. That's why he posts up less than 15% of the time with below-average to horrible efficiency.
.
:sleeping Jordan has not played in over 12 years. No one cares about you and father figure you bum.
3ball
10-11-2015, 01:12 AM
:sleeping Jordan has not played in over 12 years. No one cares about you and father figure you bum.
Lebron's up-and-under is ugly AF and not polished..
A real up-and-under uses the defenders own momentum against him, like aikido.. See the goat do it, here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FERPEtMYpes&t=3m39s
Reverse layup... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxVsxNFdBKM
Like most of Lebron's highlights, this highlight comes in transition, which makes it easier... :sleeping
Otoh, he can't do a reverse layup off a drop-step - that requires goat skill and athleticism:
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-13-2015/LJ8raP.gif
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-03-2015/P5BrOZ.gif
.
G0ATbe
10-11-2015, 01:20 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-D9VaSNK6is0/UyYfutznV2I/AAAAAAAAD4U/k9n_yLUTfIM/s1600/1.gif
Pretty much sums up his offensive repertoire. Stiff arm, spin, pass.
sportjames23
10-11-2015, 01:33 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-D9VaSNK6is0/UyYfutznV2I/AAAAAAAAD4U/k9n_yLUTfIM/s1600/1.gif
Pretty much sums up his offensive repertoire. Stiff arm, spin, pass.
He's such an awkward player. I feel sorry for his stans.
aj1987
10-11-2015, 01:34 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-D9VaSNK6is0/UyYfutznV2I/AAAAAAAAD4U/k9n_yLUTfIM/s1600/1.gif
Pretty much sums up his offensive repertoire. Stiff arm, spin, pass.
Instead of bricking a 2pt shot, he got his teammate a wide-open 3.
3ball
10-11-2015, 01:37 AM
Instead of bricking a 2pt shot, he got his teammate a wide-open 3.
Indeed, Lebron would have to pull-up from mid-range there against Lin - it's super high quality shot against a smaller defender...
But only if you can shoot, which Lebron can't, so he forces Bosh to play out of his comfort zone and become a Steve Kerr-like spot-up shooter..
What a waste of ability for a 10-time all-star like Bosh... And people wonder why this guy only went 2/5 with super-team and bevy of HOF's in Miami?... :facepalm
.
JerrySeinfeld
10-11-2015, 01:38 AM
legal basketball moves?
The stepback is really the only one that comes to mind.
20Four
10-11-2015, 01:39 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-D9VaSNK6is0/UyYfutznV2I/AAAAAAAAD4U/k9n_yLUTfIM/s1600/1.gif
Pretty much sums up his offensive repertoire. Stiff arm, spin, pass.
lets see the leBRONZE stans try to justify this one...:roll: :roll:
BuffaloBill
10-11-2015, 01:41 AM
One of the best stiff arms in basketball
3ball
10-11-2015, 01:52 AM
Instead of bricking a 2pt shot, he got his teammate a wide-open 3.
:whatever:
Lebron can't beat his man off the dribble in the half court without screen... THAT'S the problem..
And also, he can't shoot midrange - Lebron should pull-up from mid-range against Lin - it's super high quality shot against a smaller defender... However, that assumes you can shoot - Lebron can't, so he forces Bosh to be a Steve Kerr-like spot-up shooter..
What a waste of ability for a 10-time all-star like Bosh... And people wonder how Lebron only went 2/5 with super-team and bevy of HOF's in Miami?
dubeta
10-11-2015, 01:56 AM
lets see the leBRONZE stans try to justify this one...:roll: :roll:
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3692973/kobefail.gif
:confusedshrug:
aj1987
10-11-2015, 02:16 AM
:whatever:
Lebron can't beat his man off the dribble in the half court without screen... THAT'S the problem..
And also, he can't shoot midrange - Lebron should pull-up from mid-range against Lin - it's super high quality shot against a smaller defender... However, that assumes you can shoot - Lebron can't, so he forces Bosh to be a Steve Kerr-like spot-up shooter..
What a waste of ability for a 10-time all-star like Bosh... And people wonder how Lebron only went 2/5 with super-team and bevy of HOF's in Miami?
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11046586/reinvention-chris-bosh
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24571850/heats-chris-bosh-on-playing-in-the-post-i-dont-bang-anymore
Since 2001, Kobe on average played in 67.6 games per season. Over that period, he averaged 16.5 jump shots a game and made 6.5 at 40% (rest of his shots at 64%). This is basically from the start of Kobe's prime.
Since 2004, LeBron on average played in 76 games a season. Over that period, he averaged 12.7 jump shots a game and made 5.2 at 41% (rest of his shots at 65%). This includes LeBron's rookie season, BTW.
tl;dr - LeBron makes 5.2 jumpshots a game @ 41% and Kobe make 6.5 @ 40%.
Midrange? Kobe is ~5% better than LeBron from mid-range over their CAREERS. That's ~1 more made shot a game.
Indeed, Lebron would have to pull-up from mid-range there against Lin - it's super high quality shot against a smaller defender...
But only if you can shoot, which Lebron can't, so he forces Bosh to play out of his comfort zone and become a Steve Kerr-like spot-up shooter..
What a waste of ability for a 10-time all-star like Bosh... And people wonder why this guy only went 2/5 with super-team and bevy of HOF's in Miami?... :facepalm
.
Sure. It might be a high quality shot, but he got Bosh an even better one, which is also worth more points than the contested mid-range shot.
20Four
10-11-2015, 02:22 AM
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3692973/kobefail.gif
:confusedshrug:
hmmm
http://i.imgur.com/0RSLCL2.gif
24-Inch_Chrome
10-11-2015, 02:42 AM
I could find a plethora of clips for just about every move you mentioned but I won't bother.
Without even taking the time to properly search:
Floater https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tONHNocNr6w
Hook https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI9PD5FEcys
Jab step to jump shot... seriously? Do you watch him at all? He does several of those every game.
Up and under layup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLbKv4M326c
Reverse layup... shouldn't even dignify that one, he's one of the greats at this, but here's a random one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxVsxNFdBKM
Spin move... again, does one of those about once a game, here's a random example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2pnN2cfYmI
Crossovers and ankle breakers... the first video to come up is literally a compilation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ2gNuQLBW4
Fadeaway... about one or two per game. Here's a Dirk leg just for fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwmZEhD3YpE
Drop step https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ5GZhEYLnk
Up and under post move https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HuVnSUDemA
There. Took me less than two minutes. I'm sure a stan will come up with something more detailed, but that a non-stan can check your entire list in under two minutes by just typing the name of the move on youtube should tell you something about the utter stupidity of this thread.
Thread over. OP dead.
knicksman
10-11-2015, 02:44 AM
As a bran stan, I really dont care about his moves. What matters is results for me. I always enjoy seeing him not attracting double teams like kobe does regularly. In fact hes even given 6 ft to shoot. And I love those moments coz thats the testament of how elite brans moves are.
DoctorP
10-11-2015, 02:44 AM
Prime Bird:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=177&v=tasum_-63s4
Gileraracer
10-11-2015, 05:36 AM
As a huge Lebron fan i have to admit, you are right
3ball
10-11-2015, 08:31 AM
Midrange? Kobe is ~5% better than LeBron from mid-range over their CAREERS.
5 percentage points is a big gap in efficiency.. And it's more than 5%.. For his career, Kobe shoots 17% of his shots from 10-16 feet at 44%..... compared to 10% of Lebron's shots at 36%.. So the gap is quite huge.
Kobe is a solid midrange shooter while Lebron is far below-average.. This means Kobe's efficiency can handle the additional midrange required of high volume shooting, while Lebron's cannot.. But since Lebron can't shoot well at high volume (entire 2015 playoffs), he doesn't command a double-team - infact, it behooves the other team to induce high volume from Lebron by not doubling him (2015 Finals).
Sure. It might be a high quality shot, but he got Bosh an even better one, which is also worth more points than the contested mid-range shot.
Do you understand that using Bosh as a 3-point floor-spreader wastes most of his ability?... If Bosh played for the Spurs, he wouldn't be relegated to 3-point spot-up shooter.. Since Lebron achieves his stats by reducing Bosh's stats and wasting most of Bosh's ability is the reason Lebron's teams never play to capacity or reach their ceiling.
Also, good midrange is necessary because the contested midrange shot is available with the game on the line and can't be game-planned for, or reduced over the course of a game the way 3-and-D can.
Furthermore, Lebron's inability to diversify his game with midrange is why teams solve his style and he loses to teams with equal or lesser talent... And each time he's lost in Finals, he's lost 3 games in a row to finish the series, which shows how much teams figure out his basic style..
aj1987
10-11-2015, 08:57 AM
5 percentage points is a big gap in efficiency.. And it's more than 5%.. For his career, Kobe shoots 17% of his shots from 10-16 feet at 44%..... compared to 10% of Lebron's shots at 36%.. So the gap is quite huge.
10ft-3pt line. That's what I'm talking about. Kobe shoots ~5% better than LeBron and that's ~1 shot more made per game.
Kobe is a solid midrange shooter while Lebron is far below-average.. This means Kobe's efficiency can handle the additional midrange required of high volume shooting, while Lebron's cannot.. But since Lebron can't shoot well at high volume (entire 2015 playoffs), he doesn't command a double-team - infact, it behooves the other team to induce high volume from Lebron by not doubling him (2015 Finals).
You're using a single playoff run as a sample?
Do you understand that using Bosh as a 3-point floor-spreader wastes most of his ability?... If Bosh played for the Spurs, he wouldn't be relegated to 3-point spot-up shooter.. Since Lebron achieves his stats by reducing Bosh's stats and wasting most of Bosh's ability is the reason Lebron's teams never play to capacity or reach their ceiling.
Blame the coach you ****ing idiot. Do you not know that it's the coach who draws up the plays.
Again, since you were probably too stupid to read the entire post the first time around.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11046586/reinvention-chris-bosh
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24571850/heats-chris-bosh-on-playing-in-the-post-i-dont-bang-anymore
Bosh himself said he doesn't like playing in the post anymore.
Also, good midrange is necessary because the contested midrange shot is available with the game on the line and can't be game-planned for, or reduced over the course of a game the way 3-and-D can.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
CP3 is a beast from mid-range.
http://clipperholics.com/2015/08/30/why-clippers-chris-paul-is-the-nbas-best-mid-range-shooter/
He sure is a terrific playoff performer and has multiple rings. :applause:
Furthermore, Lebron's inability to diversify his game with midrange is why teams solve his style and he loses to teams with equal or lesser talent... And each time he's lost in Finals, he's lost 3 games in a row to finish the series, which shows how much teams figure out his basic style..
And yet, it was basically only once (twice if you count the '07 Finals) he lost and the entire fault was his. '14, Wade and Bosh were ass and the Heat as a team were horrible defensively. '15, he basically was carrying garbage after Love and Irving went down.
Since 2001, Kobe on average played in 67.6 games per season. Over that period, he averaged 16.5 jump shots a game and made 6.5 at 40% (rest of his shots at 64%). This is basically from the start of Kobe's prime.
Since 2004, LeBron on average played in 76 games a season. Over that period, he averaged 12.7 jump shots a game and made 5.2 at 41% (rest of his shots at 65%). This includes LeBron's rookie season, BTW.
tl;dr - LeBron makes 5.2 jumpshots a game @ 41% and Kobe make 6.5 @ 40%.
ISHGoat
10-11-2015, 09:04 AM
10ft-3pt line. That's what I'm talking about. Kobe shoots ~5% better than LeBron and that's ~1 shot more made per game.
You're using a single playoff run as a sample?
Blame the coach you ****ing idiot. Do you not know that it's the coach who draws up the plays.
Again, since you were probably too stupid to read the entire post the first time around.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11046586/reinvention-chris-bosh
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24571850/heats-chris-bosh-on-playing-in-the-post-i-dont-bang-anymore
Bosh himself said he doesn't like playing in the post anymore.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
CP3 is a beast from mid-range.
http://clipperholics.com/2015/08/30/why-clippers-chris-paul-is-the-nbas-best-mid-range-shooter/
He sure is a terrific playoff performer and has multiple rings. :applause:
And yet, it was basically only once (twice if you count the '07 Finals) he lost and the entire fault was his. '14, Wade and Bosh were ass and the Heat as a team were horrible defensively. '15, he basically was carrying garbage after Love and Irving went down.
Since 2001, Kobe on average played in 67.6 games per season. Over that period, he averaged 16.5 jump shots a game and made 6.5 at 40% (rest of his shots at 64%). This is basically from the start of Kobe's prime.
Since 2004, LeBron on average played in 76 games a season. Over that period, he averaged 12.7 jump shots a game and made 5.2 at 41% (rest of his shots at 65%). This includes LeBron's rookie season, BTW.
tl;dr - LeBron makes 5.2 jumpshots a game @ 41% and Kobe make 6.5 @ 40%.
Kobe stans come and justify this. Was Lebron cherry picking open shots in transition? Stat padding open shots?
KembaWalker
10-11-2015, 09:18 AM
Everything Jordan had + a legit 3 point game
oh wow.
RidonKs
10-11-2015, 10:01 AM
i think lebron is the best player in the league by far and hes incredibly talented but its definitely obvious he has no moves or skills and is one of the worst players in the league
sd3035
10-11-2015, 10:20 AM
https://i.imgur.com/01TLtqi.gif
3ball
10-11-2015, 10:33 AM
:facepalm
3ball
10-11-2015, 10:34 AM
You're using a single playoff run as a sample to show Lebron can't shoot well at high volume?
The 2015 playoffs was Lebron's first high-volume playoffs and it was 21 games, so that's a huge sample.
Furthermore, we don't even need a sample - Lebron is poor at the additional midrange and 1-on-1 required of high volume shooting - this is statistical fact.. So even before the 2015 playoffs showed us first-hand, the stats already told us he couldn't shoot well at high volume.. and obviously, since he can't shoot well at high volume, he doesn't require a double team to prevent high volume.
This is a deal-breaking indictment on Lebron's game compared to Kobe or any top 15 player - unlike Kobe, Lebron un-complicates an opponent's defensive strategy by not commanding a double team.. Infact, it behooves opponents to induce Lebron's poor high volume shooting by not doubling (2015 Finals).
Bosh himself said he doesn't like playing in the post anymore.
Who said anything about the post???
Bosh's bread-and-butter is facing up from the triple-threat position (pre-dribble, stationary position).. That's how Bosh averaged 24 ppg in Toronto.. In Miami, he never got to do that, because Lebron reduced him to a spot-up shooter - these are the facts.
CP3 is a beast from mid-range, but loses in the playoffs.
CP3 never played with the level of talent Lebron has (3 HOF's) because he never team-hopped or colluded (he tried to collude with Kobe/Lakers, but the league shut that down, because they only let Lebron do it).
And yet, it was basically only once (twice if you count the '07 Finals) he lost and the entire fault was his.
Losing 2 Finals due to your poor play is a SUPER-TON... Most ATG's don't have ANY instances where they were the main reason for a Finals loss.. But Lebron has 2 very obvious occurrences (2007 and 2011) and another in 2014.
In 2014, the Heat's defense was fine the first 2 games, but after a bad Game 3 where Lebron took 14 shots for 22 points, the team just gave up in Games 4 and 5.. The Heat knew they couldn't keep up offensively, so they gave up defensively halfway through the series - overall, the Heat only scored 91 ppg vs. the Spurs, which was by far the least of any Spurs opponent in those playoffs.
Btw, how could Lebron take 17 shots per game in the Finals, when his team obviously needed a lot more??.. There's no excuse for this - he wanted to protect his efficiency... He obviously figured it out in 2015, but unfortunately, he couldn't shoot well at the high volume.
10ft-3pt line. That's what I'm talking about. Kobe shoots ~5% better than LeBron and that's ~1 shot more made per game.
5 percentage points and 1.2 made shots is a lot... From a proportion standpoint, Kobe takes 45% of his shots from midrange, to only 33% for Lebron.
These are MATERIAL DIFFERENCES... You can't disregard them as nothing - if you disregard everything, you're completely absolving Lebron of any fault when he loses, which is ridiculous.
Lebron's inability to shoot well at high volume is statistical fact, which means teams don't have to prevent high volume by double-teaming.. Unlike Kobe, Lebron UN-complicates an opponent's defensive strategy by not commanding a double team.. Infact, it behooves opponents to induce Lebron's poor shooting at high volume by not doubling (2015 Finals).. These are deal-breaking indictments on Lebron's game compared to Kobe or any top 15 player.
Blame the coach you ****ing idiot. Do you not know that it's the coach who draws up the plays.
Coaches have no choice but to let Lebron dominate the ball from the forward position - that's Lebron's game - they can't change it.. And it's a huge knock on Lebron's unadjustable game that he hamstrings coaches like this.
Unfortunately, letting Lebron be a 2nd point guard from the forward position is problematic - starting fives normally have only 1 ball-dominant, low-assisted player that teammates rarely throw assists to - the point guard - but Lebron's point guard style from the forward position adds a 2nd low-assisted player that teammates can't throw assists to, which lowers the assist capacity of the team - not surprisingly, Lebron's presence didn't improve the assist frequency (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385446) of his Heat and Cavs teams..
.
ShawkFactory
10-11-2015, 11:57 AM
:facepalm
Your new gimmick. Doing this in every thread doesn't make you any more correct. :lol
Just because you think your opinion means more than someone else's doesn't mean that it does.
sd3035
10-11-2015, 12:40 PM
Your new gimmick. Doing this in every thread doesn't make you any more correct. :lol
Just because you think your opinion means more than someone else's doesn't mean that it does.
He did that to bump his post to the top of the next page, it was at the end of the previous page prior to the edit and repost
aj1987
10-11-2015, 01:54 PM
The 2015 playoffs was Lebron's first high-volume playoffs and it was 21 games, so that's a huge sample.
2009 PO's. 2006 PO's and RS. Just because you use a PO run in which his jumper was broke AF, doesn't mean that whatever shit you spew is true.
Furthermore, we don't even need a sample - Lebron is poor at the additional midrange and 1-on-1 required of high volume shooting - this is statistical fact.. So even before the 2015 playoffs showed us first-hand, the stats already told us he couldn't shoot well at high volume.. and obviously, since he can't shoot well at high volume, he doesn't require a double team to prevent high volume.
Again, he's only 1 shot worse per game than Kobe. 1 shot, which is basically 2 points from the least efficient area on the floor.
This is a deal-breaking indictment on Lebron's game compared to Kobe or any top 15 player - unlike Kobe, Lebron un-complicates an opponent's defensive strategy by not commanding a double team.. Infact, it behooves opponents to induce Lebron's poor high volume shooting by not doubling (2015 Finals).
Yeah, not doubling LeBron the Warriors lost 2 games in a series which they should've swept. Even though he was inefficient, LeBron had a monster series.
Bosh's bread-and-butter is facing up from the triple-threat position (pre-dribble, stationary position).. That's how Bosh averaged 24 ppg in Toronto.. In Miami, he never got to do that, because Lebron reduced him to a spot-up shooter - these are the facts.
Chris Bosh over the 4 years with LeBron averaged 1.2 3's a game. 2.8 in 2014. Dude averaged 3.8 3's a game last season. He scored 21.1 PPG on 46%. This, with a significant increase in PT and touches. FOH with your BS.
CP3 never played with the level of talent Lebron has (3 HOF's) because he never team-hopped or colluded (he tried to collude with Kobe/Lakers, but the league shut that down, because they only let Lebron do it).
Wade was in his prime for basically 1 year. Bosh was...well, Bosh. CP3 played with BG and DeAndre last season and didn't even make the WCF. His team was deep and they blew a 3-1 lead.
In 2014, the Heat's defense was fine the first 2 games, but after a bad Game 3 where Lebron took 14 shots for 22 points, the team just gave up in Games 4 and 5.. The Heat knew they couldn't keep up offensively, so they gave up defensively halfway through the series - overall, the Heat only scored 91 ppg vs. the Spurs, which was by far the least of any Spurs opponent in those playoffs.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
So much retarded BS in this post.
Btw, how could Lebron take 17 shots per game in the Finals, when his team obviously needed a lot more??.. There's no excuse for this - he wanted to protect his efficiency... He obviously figured it out in 2015, but unfortunately, he couldn't shoot well at the high volume.
Where does he magically get the extra possessions from, you retarded shit? The Heat were a bad rebounding team and that's why they always were big on saving possessions.
5 percentage points and 1.2 made shots is a lot... From a proportion standpoint, Kobe takes 45% of his shots from midrange, to only 33% for Lebron.
Yeah, 2 points.
These are MATERIAL DIFFERENCES... You can't disregard them as nothing - if you disregard everything, you're completely absolving Lebron of any fault when he loses, which is ridiculous.
Like how you disregarded that LeBron led teams have usually been top 5 offensively?
Lebron's inability to shoot well at high volume is statistical fact, which means teams don't have to prevent high volume by double-teaming.. Unlike Kobe, Lebron UN-complicates an opponent's defensive strategy by not commanding a double team.. Infact, it behooves opponents to induce Lebron's poor shooting at high volume by not doubling (2015 Finals).. These are deal-breaking indictments on Lebron's game compared to Kobe or any top 15 player.
Just because you keep repeating yourself doesn't make it a fact.
Coaches have no choice but to let Lebron dominate the ball from the forward position - that's Lebron's game - they can't change it.. And it's a huge knock on Lebron's unadjustable game that he hamstrings coaches like this.
So basically you're saying that LeBron needs a strong coach like PJax or Pop? Yeah, that makes sense. No wonder MJ won 6 rings. :cheers:
Also, don't message me dude. I reply whenever I'm free. I'm not on ISH 24/7 typing up complete horseshit like you. And bumping up threads by deleting and reposting stuff? Pathetic.
http://i.imgur.com/ZSZlyEB.png
3ball
10-11-2015, 03:56 PM
Like how you disregarded that LeBron led teams have usually been top 5 offensively?
The fact that Lebron usually leads a top 5 offense is not noteworthy.. Nash, Kevin Johnson, Karl Malone and many other players have led top 5 offenses as well.. It means nothing..
Otoh, Lebron's stats lack integrity because he achieves them at the expense of teammates - as previously shown, it's a statistical fact that Lebron significantly lowers the PPG and APG of teammates... With Lebron's production preventing teammates from playing to capacity (lower ppg, apg), the TEAM can't play to capacity and underperforms (2009, 2011, 2014).. His stat accumulation is also helped by employing a stat-friendly, easily-solvable, losing, playground style, rather than the superior, nuanced skill required to achieve stats within an equal-opportunity offense that can actually win.
24-Inch_Chrome
10-11-2015, 03:59 PM
The fact that Lebron usually leads a top 5 offense is not noteworthy.. Nash, Kevin Johnson, Karl Malone and many other players have led top 5 offenses as well.. It means nothing..
Bullshit. It means nothing to you because everything you say and believe feeds into a constant agenda, but that agenda isn't present in the minds of non-player stans.
Just as it is noteworthy for LeBron, it's also noteworthy for the other players that you mentioned and anyone else who led a top 5 offense.
aj1987
10-11-2015, 04:00 PM
The fact that Lebron usually leads a top 5 offense is not noteworthy.. Nash, Kevin Johnson, Karl Malone and many other players have led top 5 offenses as well.. It means nothing..
Otoh, Lebron's stats lack integrity because he achieves them at the expense of teammates - as previously shown, it's a statistical fact that Lebron significantly lowers the PPG and APG of teammates... With Lebron's production preventing teammates from playing to capacity (lower ppg, apg), the TEAM can't play to capacity and underperforms (2009, 2011, 2014).. His stat accumulation is also helped by employing a stat-friendly, easily-solvable, losing, playground style, rather than the superior, nuanced skill required to achieve stats within an equal-opportunity offense that can actually win.
Cav's before LeBron: Lottery
Cav's with LeBron: Contenders
Cav's after LeBron: Lottery
Heat before LeBron ('09-'10): 1st round exit
Heat with LeBron: 4 straight Finals and 2 rings
Heat after LeBron: Lottery
You were saying?
3ball
10-11-2015, 04:07 PM
Cav's with LeBron: Contenders
Cav's after LeBron: Lottery
Heat with LeBron: 4 straight Finals and 2 rings
Heat after LeBron: Lottery
You were saying?
Indeed, I was saying the Cavs didn't just lose Lebron in 2011... They lost half their team, including Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao, Shaquille O'Neal, Delonte West, and Zydrunas Illgauskas.
In 2015, the Heat's top 2 players were injured for much of the season.
Lebron leaves teams when they get injuries or lose really bad/disappointingly... You'll see him jump ship after he loses this year - isn't his contract up after this upcoming 2016 season?... If so... Sayonara.. :oldlol:
aj1987
10-11-2015, 05:19 PM
Indeed, I was saying the Cavs didn't just lose Lebron in 2011... They lost half their team, including Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao, Shaquille O'Neal, Delonte West, and Zydrunas Illgauskas.
In 2015, the Heat's top 2 players were injured for much of the season.
Lebron leaves teams when they get injuries or lose really bad/disappointingly... You'll see him jump ship after he loses this year - isn't his contract up after this upcoming 2016 season?... If so... Sayonara.. :oldlol:
Are you implying that Wade wasn't injured from '12-'14?
'15 Wade >' '14 Wade.
AnaheimLakers24
10-11-2015, 05:21 PM
Fake heat fans :lol ******s to embarrassed to full coomit to lebabydick. Still acting like wade stans :lol
3ball
10-11-2015, 05:36 PM
Are you implying that Wade wasn't injured from '12-'14?
'15 Wade >' '14 Wade.
Wade wasn't injured and played every game - here are his playoff stats:
D Wade 2012-2014 playoffs: 19/5/4 on 47.1%
Pippen. 1996-1998 playoffs: 17/7/5 on 40.8%
If you throw in the 25/7/4 that Wade got in 2011 playoffs, then Wade blows Pippen away - and there's no reason to exclude his 2011, except to baby Lebron... It's like, Lebron's choke was SO bad, we can't even talk about it.. :eek: ... ****ing pathetic
aj1987
10-11-2015, 05:52 PM
Wade wasn't injured and played every game - here are his playoff stats:
D Wade 2012-2014 playoffs: 19/5/4 on 47.1%
Pippen. 1996-1998 playoffs: 17/7/5 on 40.8%
If you throw in the 25/7/4 that Wade got in 2011 playoffs, then Wade blows Pippen away - and there's no reason to exclude his 2011, except to baby Lebron... It's like, Lebron's choke was SO bad, we can't even talk about it.. :eek: ... ****ing pathetic
There you go, deflecting like a beta bitch again. Why are you even bringing up Pip? Wade missed 17 games in '12, 15 games in '13, and 32 games in '14. Dude even sat a playoff game. Wade was still a terrific player (except in '14), but he did miss a ton of time.
Spurs m8
10-11-2015, 06:04 PM
LeBron travels really well
SwayDizzle
10-11-2015, 06:10 PM
There comes a time when you just have to be honest as a Bran stan. I love the guy to death but he plays awkward ball. His moves are limited and unstylish. That step back jumper might just be the ugliest thing I've ever seen. And yes, I've seem him try to post up midgets.
sd3035
10-11-2015, 06:30 PM
Fake heat fans :lol ******s to embarrassed to full coomit to lebabydick. Still acting like wade stans :lol
:roll:
Sakkreth
10-11-2015, 07:16 PM
I could find a plethora of clips for just about every move you mentioned but I won't bother.
Without even taking the time to properly search:
Floater https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tONHNocNr6w
Hook https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI9PD5FEcys
Jab step to jump shot... seriously? Do you watch him at all? He does several of those every game.
Up and under layup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLbKv4M326c
Reverse layup... shouldn't even dignify that one, he's one of the greats at this, but here's a random one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxVsxNFdBKM
Spin move... again, does one of those about once a game, here's a random example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2pnN2cfYmI
Crossovers and ankle breakers... the first video to come up is literally a compilation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ2gNuQLBW4
Fadeaway... about one or two per game. Here's a Dirk leg just for fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwmZEhD3YpE
Drop step https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ5GZhEYLnk
Up and under post move https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HuVnSUDemA
There. Took me less than two minutes. I'm sure a stan will come up with something more detailed, but that a non-stan can check your entire list in under two minutes by just typing the name of the move on youtube should tell you something about the utter stupidity of this thread.
Op should retire himself if he has an yself respect. :roll:
sdot_thadon
10-11-2015, 10:15 PM
I could find a plethora of clips for just about every move you mentioned but I won't bother.
Without even taking the time to properly search:
Floater https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tONHNocNr6w
Hook https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI9PD5FEcys
Jab step to jump shot... seriously? Do you watch him at all? He does several of those every game.
Up and under layup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLbKv4M326c
Reverse layup... shouldn't even dignify that one, he's one of the greats at this, but here's a random one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxVsxNFdBKM
Spin move... again, does one of those about once a game, here's a random example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2pnN2cfYmI
Crossovers and ankle breakers... the first video to come up is literally a compilation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ2gNuQLBW4
Fadeaway... about one or two per game. Here's a Dirk leg just for fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwmZEhD3YpE
Drop step https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ5GZhEYLnk
Up and under post move https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HuVnSUDemA
There. Took me less than two minutes. I'm sure a stan will come up with something more detailed, but that a non-stan can check your entire list in under two minutes by just typing the name of the move on youtube should tell you something about the utter stupidity of this thread.
http://www.redstate.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/corpse-toe-tag.jpg
Prime_Shaq
10-11-2015, 11:22 PM
He has moves but his fundamentals and footwork are definitely poor for an all-time great.
FreezingTsmoove
10-11-2015, 11:26 PM
Damn 3ball put AJ in a bodybag :applause:
AJ confirmed underweight teenager
34-24 Footwork
10-11-2015, 11:44 PM
Lol. You know Lebron ******gers are getting desperate when they start posting links to Lebron doing jab steps with 7 feet of space and hitting open jump shots. Lol.
His winning days are over.
plowking
10-11-2015, 11:51 PM
Lebron's drop step in the post is one of the most efficient post moves in history actually... lol.
There was a damn article and thread about this 2 years ago or so.
People act as if this guy has to play like a 6 foot, 180lbs player. He is 6'8 and 270lbs at times... What exactly are you expecting? Up and unders, lightning quick agility? lol...
aj1987
10-12-2015, 12:57 AM
Damn 3ball put AJ in a bodybag :applause:
AJ confirmed underweight teenager
Who the heck are you?
34-24 Footwork
10-12-2015, 01:30 AM
Lebron's drop step in the post is one of the most efficient post moves in history actually... lol.
There was a damn article and thread about this 2 years ago or so.
People act as if this guy has to play like a 6 foot, 180lbs player. He is 6'8 and 270lbs at times... What exactly are you expecting? Up and unders, lightning quick agility? lol...
Lebron's isolation has proven to be the most efficient way for a role player to win Finals MVP :applause: :applause:
Gileraracer
10-12-2015, 02:44 AM
LeBrons signature move is the
travel-stiff arm-shoot-flop and try to get a foul-complain
:lol
Number22
10-12-2015, 03:15 AM
I could find a plethora of clips for just about every move you mentioned but I won't bother.
Without even taking the time to properly search:
Crossovers and ankle breakers... the first video to come up is literally a compilation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ2gNuQLBW4
There. Took me less than two minutes. I'm sure a stan will come up with something more detailed, but that a non-stan can check your entire list in under two minutes by just typing the name of the move on youtube should tell you something about the utter stupidity of this thread.
Wow I looked at the video and I was amazed.
0 - 0:10 -> Lebron showing off his behind the back dribble and lost control of the ball
0:10 - 0:28 -> Lebron "crossover" Tim Duncan and Duncan is still in front of him at the basket
0:28 - 35 -> Lebron getting his ball stolen twice during his dribble
0:47 -> Lebron signature pushoff with offhand
1:02 -> Lebron breaks his own ankle
1:18 - 1:30 -> Lebron failing to crossover 2 times, video cut off each time he failed, before ending with his signature pushoff with offhand
1:39 -> Another signature pushoff
1:51 -> Nice fadeaway move
There was no "crossover" at all in the video. Unless you count bouncing the ball from his left hand to his right hand, den charging str8 to the basket as a crossover :roll:
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