Rank these bigs as overall players: Pau, Rodman, Shaq, Bosh, Kucoc

[Akrazotile]

Personally I would go:

1. Shaq
2. Pau
3. Rodman
4. Kucoc
5. Bosh

How bout you guys?

[SouBeachTalents]

1. Shaq
2. Rodman
3. Gasol/Bosh
5. Kukoc

[Vaniiiia]

Yep. That looks right. Rodman was a beast defender/rebounder but Pau's offensive impact gives him the nod quite easily.

Is Kobe the only perimeter player to have played with three HOF centers?

Actually 4. Forgot about Malone.

God damn...

[KembaWalker]

1. Shaq
2. Rodman
3. Gasol/Bosh
5. Kukoc

agreed

[G-train]

1. Shaq
2. Gasol
3. Bosh
4. Rodman
5. Kukoc

[G-train]

Personally I would go:

1. Shaq
2. Pau
3. Rodman
4. Kucoc
5. Bosh

How bout you guys?

Kukoc couldn't carry Bosh's jock strap into the gym.

Rodman has gone from underrated to overrated.

Bosh is a 10 time allstar elite all around player, when did a specialist rebounder/defender surpass that?

I'm a big Rodman fan, but he was no Chris Bosh. You get guys like Rodman to support guys like Bosh.

[T_L_P]

Shaq
Pau
Bosh
Rodman
Kukoc

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Shaq
Bosh
Rodman
Pau
Kukoc

[DonDadda59]

Never thought of Kukoc as a big, definitely more perimeter-oriented. He was just tall. it'd be like thinking of Durant as a big. Anyway-

1) Shaq
2) Shaq
3) Shaq





4) Pau
5) Bosh
6) Rodman

[Naero]

1. Shaq.

He is transcendent enough that it's misrepresentative to his dominance to even lump him with the rest of the aforementioned big-men. :P

2. Chris Bosh.

His emasculation as a third wheel to Lebron James and Dwyane Wade did no favors to his career-cumulative production; but at his peak, he would qualify as a primary option for most teams without a transcendent superstar sailing the ship.

He's shown flashes of that in the first half of last season as well, and what's mainly unakin to that peak is his increased effectivity and frequency of three-point-shooting. But due to his season-sidelining injuries, he hasn't been able to fully protract it.

3. Pau Gasol.

He's arguably the most skillful big-men out of any on this list, toting possibly the best ambidexterity in the league and no shortage of masterful footwork and post moves in his arsenal.

However, he's too often had a reputation of soft and lethargic

[TheMarkMadsen]

Never thought of Kukoc as a big, definitely more perimeter-oriented. He was just tall. it'd be like thinking of Durant as a big. Anyway-

1) Shaq
2) Shaq
3) Shaq





4) Pau
5) Bosh
6) Rodman

doesn't list kukoc

no agenda

[DonDadda59]

no agenda

What agenda would that be, chump?

Shaq is clearly leagues better than anyone mentioned here and Dennis Rodman was a role player.

Everyone outside of Rodman was at least a franchise player who led playoff teams as their centerpiece of their squads.

[miles berg]

Shaq
Gasol
Rodman
Bosh
Kukoc

[TheMarkMadsen]

What agenda would that be, chump?

Shaq is clearly leagues better than anyone mentioned here and Dennis Rodman was a role player.

Everyone outside of Rodman was at least a franchise player who led playoff teams as their centerpiece of their squads.

yeah Dennis Rodman sucked you are so knowledgeable

listing one guys name 3 times, putting both Kobe's teammates top 2, putting the GOAT rebounder at the bottom of the list, not even listing Jordan's other teammate..

[DonDadda59]

yeah Dennis Rodman sucked you are so knowledgeable

Show me where I said he sucked. :biggums:

Why are you so emotional right now? You still haven't told me what my agenda is... so please, go on.


listing one guys name 3 times

Because Shaq is BY FAR the best player being discussed here. No one in their right mind would argue that. I was just highlighting just how much greater he was than the other names listed.

Are you arguing that someone else should be ranked above Shaq or that he wasn't by a large margin the best player on that list?


putting both Kobe's teammates top 2

Pau has led several 50-win teams to the playoffs as the best player on his team. No one else after Shaq can make that claim. He's also the most skilled player, so it made sense to rank him 2nd.


, putting the GOAT rebounder at the bottom of the list

GOAT rebounder who averaged 7 PPG for his career. He's the only player here who was not a franchise level player. You don't build a team around Rodman, he's a complementary guy.


, not even listing Jordan's other teammate..

I explained why. Kukoc wasn't a 'big', he played SF.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Shaq
Pippen
Wade
Pau/Rodman (depending on need, but Rodman is the GOAT at rebounding, great elite defender)
Bosh
Kukoc

[Vaniiiia]

yeah Dennis Rodman sucked you are so knowledgeable

listing one guys name 3 times, putting both Kobe's teammates top 2, putting the GOAT rebounder at the bottom of the list, not even listing Jordan's other teammate..
Shaq and Pau are the two best players on the list you ****ing crybaby.

If you don't agree then you don't know anything about basketball. But we already know you don't know anything, so no point in even responding.

I love how an agenda only poster (you) tries to call someone else out for having an agenda. It makes me smile.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Shaq and Pau are the two best players on the list you ****ing crybaby.

If you don't agree then you don't know anything about basketball. But we already know you don't know anything, so no point in even responding.

I love how an agenda only poster tries to call someone else out for having an agenda. It makes me smile.

hey guys look at me on my 200th alt trying to be edgy, up next will be a long ass paragraph where i try my best to come off as ruthless and tough over the internet

[Vaniiiia]

hey guys look at me on my 200th alt trying to be edgy, up next will be a long ass paragraph where i try my best to come off as ruthless and tough over the internet
Good 1 man...

You're an embarrassment.

[DonDadda59]

Shaq
Pippen
Wade
Pau/Rodman (depending on need, but Rodman is the GOAT at rebounding, great elite defender)
Bosh
Kukoc

Da Fuq? :biggums:

Do you have a learning disability? I'm serious. Do you not know what people mean when they refer to 'bigs' in basketball?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Da Fuq? :biggums:

Do you have a learning disability? I'm serious. Do you not know what people mean when they refer to 'bigs' in basketball?

I wasn't responding to the thread, was listing the help of the 3 players this thread is about

Wade>Pippen all time but Pippen > Wade when looking at Pippens time with Jordan and Wade's time with bran

[GIF REACTION]

I take a week vacation and you're still here doing the same old shit donald...

[TheMarkMadsen]

Good 1 man...

You're an embarrassment.

bro thats so edgy that you have "banned" under your username.. it's so ironic and clever..

[DonDadda59]

I wasn't responding to the thread

So then GTFO :oldlol:

Are you drunk right now? On your period? What's going on with you man?

[Vaniiiia]

bro thats so edgy that you have "banned" under your username.. it's so ironic and clever..
Talk about reaching...

Go make some friends. You're unoriginal and embarrassingly unfunny.

Trying to call me out for my user title... :roll:

Meltdown.

[TheMarkMadsen]

So then GTFO :oldlol:

Are you drunk right now? On your period? What's going on with you man?

3 post in a row this guy has tried insulting me

stay mad :oldlol: :oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Talk about reaching...

Go make some friends. You're unoriginal and embarrassingly unfunny.

Trying to call me out for my user title... :roll:

Meltdown.

I would tell you to go make some new friends

but registration isn't open

[DonDadda59]

This clown has the nerve to claim people have agendas and then proceeds to talk about Scottie Pippen and Dwyane Wade in a thread about bigs. :roll:

My new Madsen style bigs ranking:

1) Shaq
2) Red Velvet Cake
3) BMWs
4) John Stockton
5) Dennis Rodman



3 post in a row this guy has tried insulting me

stay mad :oldlol: :oldlol:

Stay making an absolute fool of yourself. :cheers:

[Vaniiiia]

I would tell you to go make some new friends

but registration isn't open
This coming from the guy that tried PMing me to come visit him in Wichita. :roll:

You're so ****ing lonely.

And you fail EVERY time when you try being clever. You aren't funny, period... you're not smart. Stop trying so hard, you're making everyone cringe.

[TheMarkMadsen]

This coming from the guy that tried PMing me to come visit him in Wichita. :roll:

You're so ****ing lonely.

And you fail EVERY time when you try being clever. You aren't funny, period... you're not smart. Stop trying so hard, you're making everyone cringe.

I'm so happy you brought this up :oldlol: :oldlol:

I'm about to send you home


reserved

[Vaniiiia]

:roll:

Uh oh Marky gonna expose me! I be scurred. :lol

Is this clown serious right now?

[TheMarkMadsen]

So i hit you up asking to hang out huh?

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e246/J_K/photo%201_zpsznwswiyg.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/J_K/media/photo%201_zpsznwswiyg.jpg.html)

I messaged you to tell you I lived 2 hours away..

you tried to get all cozy with me saying you were coming to KC soon for the game, asking me where I lived..

I never responded after that


:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Vaniiiia]

Holy SHIT YOU GOT ME MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW !

Exposed!

I asked where you lived because you awkwardly out of the blue said you lived in whichita wanting to meet up with me.

I was being nice... you think I was actually gonna come visit you dude? :roll:

Holy **** you are pathetic. Such a loser. :oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Holy SHIT YOU GOT ME MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW !

Exposed!

I asked where you lived because you awkwardly out of the blue said you lived in whichita wanting to meet up with me.

I was being nice... you think I was actually gonna come visit you dude? :roll:

Holy **** you are pathetic. Such a loser. :oldlol:

and where exactly did I say that.. :oldlol:

I said you live 2 hours away from assuming you lived in Wichita.. if I hit you up saying I lived in Wichita then why was your first response "where do you live"


:roll:

[Vaniiiia]

and where exactly did I say that.. :oldlol:

I said you live 2 hours away from assuming you lived in Wichita.. if I hit you up saying I lived in Wichita then why was your first response "where do you live"


:roll:
Ok, post the original message then?

I don't remember exactly what you said but I remember being extremely uncomfortable. Again, I was being nice. What the **** was I supposed to say?

You're the lame f*ggot PMing people about where you live and wanting to meet up. ****ing creepy weirdo.

[GIF REACTION]

I wish I could say this type of behavior is rare on this forum, but that'd be the biggest lie I've ever told.

(WITTY!)

[TheMarkMadsen]

Ok, post the original message then?

I don't remember exactly what you said but I remember being extremely uncomfortable. Again, I was being nice. What the **** was I supposed to say?

You're the lame f*ggot PMing people about where you live and wanting to meet up. ****ing creepy weirdo.

i did :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Akrazotile]

Let's be honest, Kukoc was BASICALLY the Dirk of the 90s. Yes he was listed at small forward, but that's just bc it was a different era. In today's league he'd probably play most of his minutes at the four and probably be listed there. But he was basically just Dirk with less touches. And let's be serious - Rodman is the modern Bill Russell.

Also, people here actually claimed Pau and Bosh were "about the same" :roll:

Pau dragged Kobe chucking and screaming to two titles. Bosh couldnt even ensure a smooth title path for a Lebron/Wade tandem as a THIRD banana. He was outright playing Houdini half the time in the playoffs. I would show a diagram what Hibbert did to him but I dont want to disturb the ISH viewers with the graphic content.

[TheMarkMadsen]

You live like 2 hours away from me bruh.
Haha, I'm not Russ bro. Just toying with the kids that think I am.

I live in OKC doe, and I'm coming up to KC the 27th to visit family and watch the Chiefs/Pats game.

Where you live?

all i said was that I live 2 hours away from Wichita

then you got all "i'm just pretending to be somebody else, i'm coming to KC soon doe, where you live"

I never responded after that :lol :lol

[GIF REACTION]

Let's be honest, Kukoc was BASICALLY the Dirk of the 90s. Yes he was listed at small forward, but that's just bc it was a different era. In today's league he'd probably play most of his minutes at the four and probably be listed there. But he was basically just Dirk with less touches. And let's be serious - Rodman is the modern Bill Russell.

Also, people here actually claimed Pau and Bosh were "about the same" :roll:

Pau dragged Kobe chucking and screaming to two titles. Bosh couldnt even ensure a smooth title path for a Lebron/Wade tandem as a THIRD banana. He was outright playing Houdini half the time in the playoffs. I would show a diagram what Hibbert did to him but I dont want to disturb the ISH voewers with the graphic content.
Dude

how big is lebrons package and how big is kobes?

[97 bulls]

If we're talking about primes, listing Shaq here is an insult. Saying that

Shaq
Rodman
Gasol/Bosh
Kukoc even though he wasn't a big

Nad yes. Dada has an agenda

[SouBeachTalents]

Let's be honest, Kukoc was BASICALLY the Dirk of the 90s. Yes he was listed at small forward, but that's just bc it was a different era. In today's league he'd probably play most of his minutes at the four and probably be listed there. But he was basically just Dirk with less touches. And let's be serious - Rodman is the modern Bill Russell.

Also, people here actually claimed Pau and Bosh were "about the same" :roll:

Pau dragged Kobe chucking and screaming to two titles. Bosh couldnt even ensure a smooth title path for a Lebron/Wade tandem as a THIRD banana. He was outright playing Houdini half the time in the playoffs. I would show a diagram what Hibbert did to him but I dont want to disturb the ISH viewers with the graphic content.

Tbh Kukoc was always better than Dirk

[DatAsh]

1. Shaq
---------
2. Gasol
3. Bosh
---------
4. Rodman
5. Kukok

Only one I see as particularly arguable is Gasol/Bosh, but I wouldn't argue for Bosh on his play with Miami alone.

[Akrazotile]

Dude

how big is lebrons package and how big is kobes?


Omg, bro, it's not even a question! You know Lebron takes the cake all day. Thats why players wanna play with him. They KNOW hes equipped to lead. Whereas they know Kobe has a little guy complex, bc of the size of his "little guy." If I had to bet, based on what Ive heard from people close to both packages, Lebron is probably fully double Kobe in size. And I'm talking about Kobe hard, Lebron limp. It's that drastic. Seriously night and day.

[Akrazotile]

Tbh Kukoc was always better than Dirk

Agreed. He could have easily been the man on a contender. But he had the Euro mentality of team ball and sacrifice, so instead he just played the 6 Man role a la Ginobili. He was like a 6'11 Ginobili basically.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

This clown has the nerve to claim people have agendas and then proceeds to talk about Scottie Pippen and Dwyane Wade in a thread about bigs. :roll:

My new Madsen style bigs ranking:

1) Shaq
2) Red Velvet Cake
3) BMWs
4) John Stockton
5) Dennis Rodman




Stay making an absolute fool of yourself. :cheers:

:roll:

[G-train]

If we're talking about primes, listing Shaq here is an insult. Saying that

Shaq
Rodman
Gasol/Bosh
Kukoc even though he wasn't a big

Nad yes. Dada has an agenda

Bosh and Gasol are significantly better players than Rodman.
But I wouln't expect you to agree.

[plowking]

Shaq
Pau
Bosh
Rodman/Kukoc

[DonDadda59]

Nad yes. Dada has an agenda

Yes, the not ranking role players over franchise center pieces or classifying SFs as 'bigs' agenda. :lol

[plowking]

Damn Dadda took a shit on Madsen in this thread.

[Vaniiiia]

all i said was that I live 2 hours away from Wichita

then you got all "i'm just pretending to be somebody else, i'm coming to KC soon doe, where you live"

I never responded after that :lol :lol
Ok, my response makes sense then.

You awkwardly tell me you live two hours away from me. (why?)

And I nicely responded and asked whereabouts you stay, like... what city. You're still the lame f*ag in this situation PMing people about how many hours away you live from them.

How is that not ****ing creepy?

[Cocaine80s]

1.Pau
2.Shaq
3.Bosh
4.Bynum
5.Kobe

[rmt]

Shaq
Pau
Bosh
Rodman
Kukoc

This.

[Cocaine80s]

Ok, my response makes sense then.

You awkwardly tell me you live two hours away from me. (why?)

And I nicely responded and asked whereabouts you stay, like... what city. You're still the lame f*ag in this situation PMing people about how many hours away you live from them.

How is that not ****ing creepy?
****ing burned

[TheMarkMadsen]

Ok, my response makes sense then.

You awkwardly tell me you live two hours away from me. (why?)

And I nicely responded and asked whereabouts you stay, like... what city. You're still the lame f*ag in this situation PMing people about how many hours away you live from them.

How is that not ****ing creepy?


thats tight bro

so what happened to me saying I lived in wichita asking to hang out :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

oh you lied about that..

nice try..

[TheMarkMadsen]

This clown has the nerve to claim people have agendas and then proceeds to talk about Scottie Pippen and Dwyane Wade in a thread about bigs. :roll:

My new Madsen style bigs ranking:

1) Shaq
2) Red Velvet Cake
3) BMWs
4) John Stockton
5) Dennis Rodman




Stay making an absolute fool of yourself. :cheers:

damn you are pretty funny, creative old guy over here :applause: :applause:

it was pretty obvious what the agenda of this thread was, why narrow it to bigs when the Jordans & bran's best teammates were wing players? just point out the obvious

if you want to get riled up and upset about that then that's your problem

[Vaniiiia]

thats tight bro

so what happened to me saying I lived in wichita asking to hang out :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

oh you lied about that..

nice try..
You implied it. Otherwise you wouldn't have sent me the message in the first place.

Unless you just wanted to randomly tell me you lived 2 hours away from me, which is what you're claiming.

Do you have autism by chance? Who does shit like that? :facepalm

You're a friendless creepy loser which is what this whole thing started over. Now stop talking to me and go make some friends.

[Coach Eddie]

1. Shaq
2. Rodman
3. Pau
4. Bosh
5. Kukoc

[julizaver]

Personally I would go:

1. Shaq
2. Pau
3. Rodman
4. Kucoc
5. Bosh

How bout you guys?


Kukoc have no place in that list, although he was used as PF in the Bulls rotation. His natural position is PG or SF and that's where he build his reputation in Europe. Also it was him who said that PG is his most favorable position due to his court vission. When joining the Bulls he was asked to gain some 30 pounds in order to play PF. As he was tall (6'10 or even 6'11 by NBA standards) playing against NBA power forwards made him look soft and skiny, but he had no chance of playing in the perimeter with Scottie and MJ on the same team. Due to playing behind them and gaining more weight he lost some of his speed and hoops, which he displayed in Europe. That's why he was not able to show his full potential and NBA fans will remember him as a talanted offensive player, but soft in defense.

Bosh is a great forward but with Heat playing small and he moving at center he sacrificed a lot. Credit due to him for bein a good teamate to James and Wade.

Rodman is terrific in rebounding and defense, but you could not build a team around him.

Pau Gasol is a good center by any standards and could play at PF (due to his skills set and fundamental game), but I am not considering him above Dirk, who is a typical PF.

Shaq - the only true big here (by NBA standards), head and shoulders above every one on that list. So my list is:

1. Shaq
....
2. Gasol (very slight edge over Bosch due to more versatility, success at international level and better playing at center)
3. Bosh
4. Kukoc (slight edge over Rodman due to seen him how good he really was, could be a main man of some weaker NBA team during 90s). If he was playing for some expansion team he could have the same production as Bosh in Toronto (20-22 ppg).
5. Rodman (although leading NBA in rebounds, you can't build a team around him - but sometimes he could be more valuable than Bosh and Kukoc depending on what a team needs).

[Dr Hawk]

1. Shaq
2. Pau
3. Rodman
4. Bosh
5. Kukoc

[Clifton]

Kukoc and Shaq look out of place to me. Shaq is obviously the best and Kukoc is (as far as I know, I was not around for his career) the worst of the 5.

I think Rodman vs. Gasol is a very good question, which doesn't admit of an easy answer. That's something you could argue all day.

I would be inclined to take Rodman, to be honest. But not in every case and not with supreme confidence.

[Akrazotile]

Kukoc and Shaq look out of place to me. Shaq is obviously the best and Kukoc is (as far as I know, I was not around for his career) the worst of the 5.

I think Rodman vs. Gasol is a very good question, which doesn't admit of an easy answer. That's something you could argue all day.

I would be inclined to take Rodman, to be honest. But not in every case and not with supreme confidence.


Kukoc was basically a Dirk Nowitzki of the 90s. Doesnt matter where they lined him up, he was still 6'11. That's big. And he came off the BENCH. That's how stacked they were.

I'm just saying, Mike literally had Pippen, and the 90s equivalents of Dirk and Bill Russell for his second threepeat. It's worth noting, IMO.

I mean I'm just sayin.

[riseagainst]

Kukoc was basically a Dirk Nowitzki of the 90s. Doesnt matter where they lined him up, he was still 6'11. That's big. And he came off the BENCH. That's how stacked they were.

I'm just saying, Mike literally had Pippen, and the 90s equivalents of Dirk and Bill Russell for his second threepeat. It's worth noting, IMO.

I mean I'm just sayin.


:biggums:

you are such a dumbass piece of sh1t fakk.it retard.

:roll:
:roll:
:lol

[dh144498]

:biggums:

you are such a dumbass piece of sh1t fakk.it retard.

:roll:
:roll:
:lol


:roll:

ether

[Akrazotile]

:biggums:

you are such a dumbass piece of sh1t fakk.it retard.

:roll:
:roll:
:lol


Youre literally melting down like smores. Try to get a grip.

[riseagainst]

Youre literally melting down like smores. Try to get a grip.

i don't think you know what "literally" means.

[riseagainst]

i don't think you know what "literally" means.


http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[SpanishACB]

i don't think you know what "literally" means.

don't think you know what hyperbole is

[West-Side]

1) Shaq
2) Rodman
3) Pau
4) Bosh
5) Kokuc

[West-Side]

:roll: @ people who actually think Bosh was better than Rodman.

[DonDadda59]

Originally Posted by Akrazotile
Kukoc was basically a Dirk Nowitzki of the 90s. Doesnt matter where they lined him up, he was still 6'11. That's big. And he came off the BENCH. That's how stacked they were.

:facepalm

The only thing Toni and Dirk had in common was that they were tall White Europeans. Other than that- nothing. Kukoc was much closer in playing style (and role) to Ginobli- both skilled slashers who could shoot and were great play makers. Kukoc gave the Bulls 4-5 APG coming off the bench as a SF.

Nice highlight reel showing off The Waiter's Game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nIk9XiHrMI) :applause:


:roll: @ people who actually think Bosh was better than Rodman.

Bosh would have a much easier time averaging 10 RPG than Dennis would have averaging 10 PPG. You can build a team around Bosh, not so much Dennis. The Pistons won rings in the 80s with him coming off the bench.

[SouBeachTalents]

Bosh would have a much easier time averaging 10 RPG than Dennis would have averaging 10 PPG. You can build a team around Bosh, not so much Dennis. The Pistons won rings in the 80s with him coming off the bench.

This is a pointless reason to pick Bosh (or Gasol) over Rodman. Could Rodman be a franchise player, probably not, but what the hell have Bosh or Gasol ever done as a teams best player? They've either missed the playoffs or been bounced in lopsided fashion in the first round. I don't think people realize that without LeBron, Bosh has not only never been past the first round, but he's MISSED the playoffs 6/8 seasons in the horrendous East. That's pathetic, and Rodman couldn't do much worse than that

[DonDadda59]

This is a pointless reason to pick Bosh (or Gasol) over Rodman. Could Rodman be a franchise player, probably not, but what the hell have Bosh or Gasol ever done as a teams best player? They've either missed the playoffs or been bounced in lopsided fashion in the first round. I don't think people realize that without LeBron, Bosh has not only never been past the first round, but he's MISSED the playoffs 6/8 seasons in the horrendous East. That's pathetic, and Rodman couldn't do much worse than that

Win 50 games and lead their team to the playoffs? :confusedshrug:

Pau became a second offensive option on a team that made 3 straight finals appearances and according to many advanced metrics was the most important and impactful player on the Lakers during their championship runs. Even now at an advanced age, Pau became the oldest player to lead the league in double doubles and was the only non Cavs player to make an all NBA team while leading the Bulls to 50 wins, a playoff berth, and the second round. That's pretty much prime Pippen as the Bulls' #1 option resume right there.

Replace Bosh or Pau on their squads when they were #1 options with Rodman and only Rodman and you will see records for offensive futility and maybe 20 wins.

[tpols]

Shaq's obviously first.


As far as the rest goes, Rodman leading the Bulls from second round exit to champions when he joined the team in 96 puts him pretty comfortably in second for me.

Pau slightly ahead of Bosh.. kukoc in last but very underrated.

[GrapeApe]

Shaq's obviously first.


As far as the rest goes, Rodman leading the Bulls from second round exit to champions when he joined the team in 96 puts him pretty comfortably in second for me.

Pau slightly ahead of Bosh.. kukoc in last but very underrated.

I mean, there couldn't possibly have been other factors involved right? It was clearly ALL Rodman.

:rolleyes:

[SouBeachTalents]

Win 50 games and lead their team to the playoffs? :confusedshrug:

Pau became a second offensive option on a team that made 3 straight finals appearances and according to many advanced metrics was the most important and impactful player on the Lakers during their championship runs. Even now at an advanced age, Pau became the oldest player to lead the league in double doubles and was the only non Cavs player to make an all NBA team while leading the Bulls to 50 wins, a playoff berth, and the second round. That's pretty much prime Pippen as the Bulls' #1 option resume right there.

Replace Bosh or Pau on their squads when they were #1 options with Rodman and only Rodman and you will see records for offensive futility and maybe 20 wins.

See, now that's a good reason to pick Gasol/Bosh over Rodman :applause:
And that's one I wouldn't disagree with either. Rodman couldn't replicate what Gasol brought to the Lakers during their Finals runs.

I wouldn't even necessarily disagree if someone picked Bosh/Gasol over Rodman, but arguing them as "franchise players" is disingenuous to me when they accomplished close to nothing as franchise players themselves.

To your last point, Bosh on the Raptors had seasons of 33, 33, 27, and 33 wins, with 1 winning season in 7 years. I don't think Rodman is doing too much worse than that as a teams franchise player

[tpols]

I mean, there couldn't possibly have been other factors involved right? It was clearly ALL Rodman.

:rolleyes:

rodman's defense and rebounding was the most important addition..


there's a million pau's and bosh's throughout the history of basketball, 20/10 all star caliber players who are mostly offense based

amare
webber
brand
love
Utah boozer
etc

And that's just the 00s..



There's only one Dennis Rodman. I guess two if you count Bill Russel..

[DonDadda59]

See, now that's a good reason to pick Gasol/Bosh over Rodman :applause:
And that's one I wouldn't disagree with either. Rodman couldn't replicate what Gasol brought to the Lakers during their Finals runs.

I wouldn't even necessarily disagree if someone picked Bosh/Gasol over Rodman, but arguing them as "franchise players" is disingenuous to me when they accomplished close to nothing as franchise players themselves.

To your last point, Bosh on the Raptors had seasons of 33, 33, 27, and 33 wins, with 1 winning season in 7 years. I don't think Rodman is doing too much worse than that as a teams franchise player

Yeah, with Rodman it was like a Robert Horry case (although Dennis was obviously a higher caliber talent)- a role player who was always in the perfect situation. He rode the bench while Isaiah and Dumars led the stacked Pistons to multiple championships/finals. Then he went to play with prime MVP David Robinson and budding star Sean Elliot in San Antonio (they won 62 games and the WCF with him starting in only 26 games and then 59 games the next season following his departure in a trade for only Will Perdue). And then he joined the revamped Bulls who had already won 3 straight championships before he got there.

He was never in a position where he had to be the go to guy on a lottery team (and he never could've filled that role with his limited offensive talent). He was always the last puzzle piece added to already great, championship caliber rosters.

[GIF REACTION]

Rodman is miles better than Bosh

Bosh scored 0 points in a game 7 in the NBA finals

[DonDadda59]

Rodman is miles better than Bosh

Bosh scored 0 points in a game 7 in the NBA finals

Rodman averaged 4 PPG/8 RPG for the whole 1997 playoffs. :confusedshrug:

He had a combined 3 points and 10 rebounds in games 2 and 3 of the Finals against MVP Karl Malone and the Jazz.

And the Bulls still won the 'ship thanks to the most clutch finals series ever by the GOAT. :bowdown:

[JT123]

Rodman averaged 4 PPG/8 RPG for the whole 1997 playoffs. :confusedshrug:

He had a combined 3 points and 10 rebounds in games 2 and 3 of the Finals against MVP Karl Malone and the Jazz.

And the Bulls still won the 'ship thanks to the most clutch finals series ever by the GOAT. :bowdown:
But Rodman made up for his lack of scoring and rebounding by shutting down Malone. :no:
Meanwhile, prime Bosh was getting RAPED by 40 year old Duncan, while also not rebounding and scoring very few points. :facepalm

[DonDadda59]

But Rodman made up for his lack of scoring and rebounding by shutting down Malone. :no:

'97 Finals
Rodman: 2.3 PPG/ 7.7 RPG
Malone: 24/10/4

:durantunimpressed:


Meanwhile, prime Bosh was getting RAPED by 40 year old Duncan, while also not rebounding and scoring very few points. :facepalm

2014 Finals
Duncan: 15/10/2
Bosh: 14/5/1

His rebounding was shit, no arguments there.

[triangleoffense]

Never thought of Kukoc as a big, definitely more perimeter-oriented. He was just tall. it'd be like thinking of Durant as a big. Anyway-

1) Shaq
2) Shaq
3) Shaq





4) Pau
5) Bosh
6) Rodman

your a sad human being. Rodman btw is the only other hof'er.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

your a sad human being. Rodman btw is the only other hof'er.

We really gonna act like Bosh and Gasol aren't going to make it?

[DonDadda59]

your a sad human being. Rodman btw is the only other hof'er.

Because he's retired and eligible you dunce. :oldlol:

Pau is going to make it first time out. He would make it just based on his International exploits alone even if he hadn't played a minute in the NBA.

[triangleoffense]

We really gonna act like Bosh and Gasol aren't going to make it?
Neither are guaranteed spots yet.

[DonDadda59]

Neither are guaranteed spots yet.

:facepalm

[Dr Hawk]

Neither are guaranteed spots yet.

Gasol is guaranteed

[Poochymama]

offense

Shaq > (huge gap) > Gasol > (gap) > Bosh > (gap) > Kukoc > (epic gap) Rodman

defense

Shaq > (huge gap) > Rodman> (small gap) > Bosh > (small gap) > Gasol > (gap) Kukoc.

Overall

Shaq > (huge gap) > Gasol > (gap) > Bosh > (big gap) > Rodman> (gap) > Kukoc.

playoff stats for comparison

Shaq
31/15/3 on 56% with DPOY level defense
30/15/3 on 56% with great defense
29/13/3 on 57% with good-average defense

Gasol
17/9/4 on 57% with average defense
18/11/3 on 62% with average defense
20/11/4 on 60% with average defense

Bosh
19/9/1 on 55% with good-average defense
14/8/1 on 57% with good defense
12/7/2 on 52% with good defense
15/6/1 on 60% with average defense

Rodman
8/14/2 on 52% with good-great defense
4/8/1 on 43% with good defense
5/12/2 on 42% with average defense

Kukoc
10/4/4 on 48% with bad defense
8/3/3 on 50% with bad defense
13/4/3 on 56% with bad defense

That's if we're just talking their contending stints with Kobe/Lebron/Jordan. If we're including their best years, Rodman is on the same level as Bosh and Gasol.

[DatAsh]

Not really fair to compare strictly Bulls Rodman to these other guys. He was 35-37 years old by the time the playoffs rolled around and was no where near the DPOY level defender he was in the late 80s and very early 90s. These other guys were very near the prime of their career.

If we include anything other than Rodman's twilight years, then his impact as a player is greater than that of all but Shaq.

[97 bulls]

'97 Finals
Rodman: 2.3 PPG/ 7.7 RPG
Malone: 24/10/4

:durantunimpressed:



2014 Finals
Duncan: 15/10/2
Bosh: 14/5/1

His rebounding was shit, no arguments there.
Did you even watch the 98 Finals? Roughly 75% of Malones points were on Longley. When Rodman defended, him, he barely shot 40%

[TheMarkMadsen]

offense

Shaq > (huge gap) > Gasol > (gap) > Bosh > (gap) > Kukoc > (epic gap) Rodman

defense

Shaq > (huge gap) > Rodman> (small gap) > Bosh > (small gap) > Gasol > (gap) Kukoc.

Overall

Shaq > (huge gap) > Gasol > (gap) > Bosh > (big gap) > Rodman> (gap) > Kukoc.

playoff stats for comparison

Shaq
31/15/3 on 56% with DPOY level defense
30/15/3 on 56% with great defense
29/13/3 on 57% with good-average defense

Gasol
17/9/4 on 57% with average defense
18/11/3 on 62% with average defense
20/11/4 on 60% with average defense

Bosh
19/9/1 on 55% with good-average defense
14/8/1 on 57% with good defense
12/7/2 on 52% with good defense
15/6/1 on 60% with average defense

Rodman
8/14/2 on 52% with good-great defense
4/8/1 on 43% with good defense
5/12/2 on 42% with average defense

Kukoc
10/4/4 on 48% with bad defense
8/3/3 on 50% with bad defense
13/4/3 on 56% with bad defense

That's if we're just talking their contending stints with Kobe/Lebron/Jordan. If we're including their best years, Rodman is on the same level as Bosh and Gasol.


:biggums: :biggums:

where did you get those FG% numbers for Pau.. his career playoff high if 58% in 09..

and Bosh's FG% looks high as well

[Smoke117]

I'd love to know how Pau has "average" defense but Kobe is considered a great defensive player? Pau has a much better drating, much higher defensive win shares than kobe and SURPRISE...I've actually seen them play. It's hilarious how these kobe morons call Pau sogy while he was being the most important defensive player on both championship teams because of his length alone. It wasn't like he lacked effort either...maybe he wasn't as strong as others, but he tried and because of his length he was an immense trouble to offensive players. It's hilarious how these kobe stans actually think kobe was even the top 3 defensive player on those championships teams. I guess if you have clowns like marky marky posting so much shit enough you start to believe it.

[Poochymama]

:biggums: :biggums:

where did you get those FG% numbers for Pau.. his career playoff high if 58% in 09..

and Bosh's FG% looks high as well

Those are TS% numbers which are way more meaningful. Using FG% when TS% is available would be like they olympics using hand stop watches instead of electric.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Those are TS% numbers which are way more meaningful.

i'm well aware of TS%

was just wondering makes sense now

[TheMarkMadsen]

I'd love to know how Pau has "average" defense but Kobe is considered a great defensive player? Pau has a much better drating, much higher defensive win shares than kobe and SURPRISE...I've actually seen them play. It's hilarious how these kobe morons call Pau sogy while he was being the most important defensive player on both championship teams because of his length alone. It wasn't like he lacked effort either...maybe he wasn't as strong as others, but he tried and because of his length he was an immense trouble to offensive players. It's hilarious how these kobe stans actually think kobe was even the top 3 defensive player on those championships teams. I guess if you have clowns like marky marky posting so much shit enough you start to believe it.


:lol

this guy is obsessed and always so angry :oldlol:

btw guy, d rating for individual players means absolutly nothing, it wasn't made to be used for individual players,, Pippen and Dirk have like the same d rating.. shows how much that means..

[97 bulls]

Some of you guys reasoning is really warped. Stopping picking players because they're better scorers and stats and go by their ability to impact and win games. Stop misinterpreting "first option" and "best player". There can be a tremendous difference. Magic Johnson and Bill Russell were never the number 1 option on their teams. But they were far and away their teams best player.

Dennis Rodman did an excellent defensive job on Shaq, Malone, and Mourning through the Bulls second run. The narrative that he lost his defense is a bold faced lie. I can.recall many games where Rodman shut down some of the best low post players in the league. He could guard all five positions even on the Bulls. But why would he even have to? The Bulls had Pippen and Jordan. And then after them they had Ron Harper and Randy Brown.

And he was the Pistons best player in 92. They won 49 games and made the playoffs.

[DatAsh]

The narrative that he lost his defense is a bold faced lie.

I would actually argue the exact opposite. When people try to argue that 35-36 year old Rodman was anywhere near the defender that 28-29 year old Rodman was, I have a hard time believing they're not trying to push some agenda.

Pistons Rodman and Bulls Rodman were completely different players defensively...completely different.

Pistons Rodman is one of the best perimeter defensive players ever. Bulls Rodman was a good defender playing with another great defender(Pippen) and 2 other good defenders(Jordan and Harper) on a team with a strong defensive culture. Beyond 96, I would argue that he was the 4th best defensive player on the team.

I strongly agree with your first paragraph though.

[97 bulls]

I would actually argue the exact opposite. When people try to argue that 35-36 year old Rodman was anywhere near the defender that 28-29 year old Rodman was, I have a hard time believing they're not trying to push some agenda.
Its not so much an attempt to try to compare him to when he was with the Pistons. Its just the fact that he was still a great defender with the Bulls. He locked up some great low post players during his run with the Bulls.


Pistons Rodman is one of the best perimeter defensive players ever. Bulls Rodman was a good defender playing with another great defender(Pippen) and 2 other good defenders(Jordan and Harper) on a team with a strong defensive culture. Beyond 96, I would argue that he was the 4th best defensive player on the team.
I don't know how you can quantify this assessment. I remember low post players lighting up Luc Longley and then Rodman shutting them up. I even listed some. The video is there.
This seems to be prevalent on ISH. If you can't put a stat next to it, then it doesn't exist. That's just asinine for a website thats supposed to be for hardcore fans.


I strongly agree with your first paragraph though.
At least we agree on something