the Kobe/Duncan debate will be settled in 6 years

[kennethgriffin]

retiring after this season:



http://blog.lakers.com/lakers/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/kobe_usa.jpg



http://dheerja.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/tim-duncan-stoic-2.jpg


http://www.nbajerseys.org/jerseys/Minnesota%20Timberwolves/minnesota-timberwolves-21-kevin-garnett-soul-swingman-alternate-jersey-0.jpg




could be one of the greatest HOF classes ever

all eligible 5 years after retirement in 2021





itel be settled by who goes on last as the headliner




agreed?

[Uncle Drew]

Duncan > Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan > Kobe


boring

[K Xerxes]

Duncan > Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan > Kobe


boring

[BlakFrankWhite]

No...its gonna be settled in 3 years when Duncan retires with 8 rings.

[TheWINdyCity]

Duncan > Kobe

[Westbrook0]

Unless Kobe wins a couple more rings, and another MVP and Finals MVP, it's settled already.

Duncan > Kobe

[SouBeachTalents]

Duncan > Kobe

[ShawkFactory]

Duncan > Kobe

[West-Side]

When their career accomplishments and accolades are so similar; you have to look at their head to head match-up.

Besides Duncan's wife; Kobe is the only other person who's footprint is tattooed on Duncan's ass. 4-1, nuff said.

Go re-watch 2001 WCF, in case y'all forgot.

[keep-itreal]

Duncan > Kobe

[Westbrook0]

When their career accomplishments and accolades are so similar; you have to look at their head to head match-up.

Besides Duncan's wife; Kobe is the only other person who's footprint is tattooed on Duncan's ass. 4-1, nuff said.

Go re-watch 2001 WCF, in case y'all forgot.

Duncan has the same amount of rings. More rings as THE guy. More MVPs. More Finals MVPs.

Duncan GOAT teammate - Kobe notoriously bad teammate.

Their accomplishments are not so similar.

[West-Side]

Duncan has the same amount of rings. More rings as THE guy. More MVPs. More Finals MVPs.

Duncan GOAT teammate - Kobe notoriously bad teammate.

Their accomplishments are not so similar.

Duncan has also had a lot more opportunities as the #1 option. :oldlol:
Nash has more MVP's than Shaq, is he better than Shaq?

[T_L_P]

Duncan > Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

head to head playoff record - kobe
tnt player of the decade 2000's - kobe
dime player of the decade 2000's - kobe
slam player of the decade 2000's - kobe
Championships - kobe ( duncan lockout* )
olympic gold medals - kobe
olympic win% - kobe
finals - kobe
mvps - duncan
finals mvps - duncan
scoring titles - kobe
1st team all nba's - kobe
1st team all defense's - kobe
allstar games - kobe
allstar mvps - kobe
game winning shots - kobe
50+ win playoff teams beatin - kobe
points - kobe
playoff points - kobe
points per game - kobe
playoff points per game - kobe
assists - kobe
playoff assists - kobe
assists per game - kobe
playoff assists per game - kobe
steals - kobe
playoff steals - kobe
steals per game - kobe
playoff steals per game - kobe
rebounds - duncan
playoff rebounds - duncan
rebounds per game - duncan
playoff rebounds per game - duncan
30 point games - kobe
30 point games playoffs - kobe
40 point games - kobe
40 point games playoffs - kobe
50 point games - kobe
50 point games playoffs - kobe
60 point games - kobe
80 point games - kobe
single game record points - kobe
single game playoff record points - kobe
total season points - kobe
total playoff points - kobe











going on last for the 2021 HOF - kobe

[ShawkFactory]

head to head playoff record - kobe
tnt player of the decade 2000's - kobe
dime player of the decade 2000's - kobe
slam player of the decade 2000's - kobe
Championships - kobe ( duncan lockout* )
olympic gold medals - kobe
olympic win% - kobe
finals - kobe
mvps - duncan
finals mvps - duncan
scoring titles - kobe
1st team all nba's - kobe
1st team all defense's - kobe
allstar games - kobe
allstar mvps - kobe
game winning shots - kobe
50+ win playoff teams beatin - kobe
points - kobe
playoff points - kobe
points per game - kobe
playoff points per game - kobe
assists - kobe
playoff assists - kobe
assists per game - kobe
playoff assists per game - kobe
steals - kobe
playoff steals - kobe
steals per game - kobe
playoff steals per game - kobe
rebounds - duncan
playoff rebounds - duncan
rebounds per game - duncan
playoff rebounds per game - duncan
30 point games - kobe
30 point games playoffs - kobe
40 point games - kobe
40 point games playoffs - kobe
50 point games - kobe
50 point games playoffs - kobe
60 point games - kobe
80 point games - kobe
single game record points - kobe
single game playoff record points - kobe
total season points - kobe
total playoff points - kobe











going on last for the 2021 HOF - kobe
Being a 30-year-old loser - kenneth

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan has the same amount of rings. More rings as THE guy. More MVPs. More Finals MVPs.

Duncan GOAT teammate - Kobe notoriously bad teammate.

Their accomplishments are not so similar.


i beg to differ

1999*


and wtf is "more rings as the guy" if youre also saying "more finals mvps" too lol



besides... manu was "the guy" in the 2005 finals

20ppg on 60%, leading assists

[West-Side]

head to head playoff record - kobe
tnt player of the decade 2000's - kobe
dime player of the decade 2000's - kobe
slam player of the decade 2000's - kobe
Championships - kobe ( duncan lockout* )
olympic gold medals - kobe
olympic win% - kobe
finals - kobe
mvps - duncan
finals mvps - duncan
scoring titles - kobe
1st team all nba's - kobe
1st team all defense's - kobe
allstar games - kobe
allstar mvps - kobe
game winning shots - kobe
50+ win playoff teams beatin - kobe
points - kobe
playoff points - kobe
points per game - kobe
playoff points per game - kobe
assists - kobe
playoff assists - kobe
assists per game - kobe
playoff assists per game - kobe
steals - kobe
playoff steals - kobe
steals per game - kobe
playoff steals per game - kobe
rebounds - duncan
playoff rebounds - duncan
rebounds per game - duncan
playoff rebounds per game - duncan
30 point games - kobe
30 point games playoffs - kobe
40 point games - kobe
40 point games playoffs - kobe
50 point games - kobe
50 point games playoffs - kobe
60 point games - kobe
80 point games - kobe
single game record points - kobe
single game playoff record points - kobe
total season points - kobe
total playoff points - kobe











going on last for the 2021 HOF - kobe

****ing Ether.
Don't forget this important fact.

Wade, Durant, Jordan, J. Crawford, Bird, and Dirk have ALL said Kobe is top 5 All-Time. I have yet to hear ANYONE say those kind of praises toward Duncan.

Let these fools have their fun; I can just put a tape of 2001 WCF and 2008 series, for me to see who was better.

[kennethgriffin]

Being a 30-year-old loser - kenneth



my bad. i shoulda just went the ISH intelligent way and said:

"kobe > duncan"

[imnew09]

If Kobe waa gifted with Spurs Organization, he prolly have like 10 rings by now. Spurs never squander any season because they have a great coaching staff and org

[West-Side]

i beg to differ

1999*


and wtf is "more rings as the guy" if youre also saying "more finals mvps" too lol



besides... manu was "the guy" in the 2005 finals

20ppg on 60%, leading assists

Duncan has 3 FMVP; but yet guys like Parker and Leonard won the other two from him. If he was so alpha and so damn great; he would never let players of that calibre win.

But I guess people still think "he's the man" even though he's been a glorified role player the last 5 years. What Kobe did in 2013, is carry a team on his back as an ALPHA; before his Achilles tear. Something Duncan hasn't done in almost 7 years. Yet we're talking about being the "MAN".

**** off.

[SouBeachTalents]

i beg to differ

1999*


and wtf is "more rings as the guy" if youre also saying "more finals mvps" too lol



besides... manu was "the guy" in the 2005 finals

20ppg on 60%, leading assists

Because Finals MVP isn't always indicative of who the teams best player was. Duncan was pretty clearly the best player on the Spurs overall in '05 & '07

And lol at you thinking Kobe's '00 ring with peak MDE on his team and scoring 16 ppg on 37% in the Finals holds more weight than Duncan's '99 ring as the clear cut best player on his team

[West-Side]

Because Finals MVP isn't always indicative of who the teams best player was. Duncan was pretty clearly the best player on the Spurs overall in '05 & '07

And lol at you thinking Kobe's '00 ring with peak MDE on his team and scoring 16 ppg on 37% in the Finals holds more weight than Duncan's '99 ring as the clear cut best player on his team

Kobe's overall playoff contribution in 2000 was more important than Duncan's last championship title. He did poorly against Indiana because of his ankle injury early in that series. :rolleyes: He was huge for LA that year. He was an actual star; clearly more important than 14' Duncan.

[Mirror]

Duncan > Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

If Kobe waa gifted with Spurs Organization, he prolly have like 10 rings by now. Spurs never squander any season because they have a great coaching staff and org


duncans consistently had

a) a top 2-3 all time HOF coach
b) 1-2 other HOF'rs every year
c) a deep lineup

every year going on 19 seasons


what is he the 7th option this year?


#1 aldridge
#2 kawhi
#3 west
#4 parker
#5 manu
#6 green
#7 duncan?



20 ppg for his 1st title ( lockout* )
23 ppg for his 2nd title
20 ppg for his 3rd title 40% fg's ( manu 20ppg 60% fg's )
17 ppg for his 4th title ( 2nd option )
15 ppg for his 5th title ( 3rd option )


meh


gimmy

21ppg for 1st title
29ppg for 2nd title ( #1 all time 2nd leading ppg )
27ppg for 3rd title ( #2 all time 2nd leading ppg )
30ppg for 4th title
30ppg for 5th title



thats alpha sh*t ... f*ck duncant

:lol

[kennethgriffin]

http://i.imgur.com/5An7VI0.jpg




Duncan > Kobe




nao WAY!


kobe > duncan


http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-06-15/1245031351524.gif

[T_L_P]

duncans consistently had

a) a top 2-3 all time HOF coach
b) 1-2 other HOF'rs every year
c) a deep lineup

every year going on 19 seasons


what is he the 7th option this year?


#1 aldridge
#2 kawhi
#3 west
#4 parker
#5 manu
#6 green
#7 duncan?



20 ppg for his 1st title ( lockout* )
23 ppg for his 2nd title
20 ppg for his 3rd title 40% fg's ( manu 20ppg 60% fg's )
17 ppg for his 4th title ( 2nd option )
15 ppg for his 5th title ( 3rd option )


meh


gimmy

21ppg for 1st title
29ppg for 2nd title ( #1 all time 2nd leading ppg )
27ppg for 3rd title ( #2 all time 2nd leading ppg )
30ppg for 4th title
30ppg for 5th title



thats alpha sh*t ... f*ck duncant

:lol

Where are you pulling these numbers from? You're like 5 PPG wrong on some of them, you fool.

[Smoke117]

Duncan > Garnett > Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

Where are you pulling these numbers from? You're like 5 PPG wrong on some of them, you fool.

Duncan: (P/R/A)
1999 - 23/11/2 ( With HOF Robinson ) LOCKOUT********* VOID
2003 - 24/15/5 ( with HOF Robinspn/Parker )
2005 - 23/12/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2007 - 22/11/3 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2014 - 16/9/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili and FMVP Leonard )

Kobe: (P/R/A)
2000 - 21/5/5 ( with HOF Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( with HOF shaq ) HIGHEST ALL TIME 2nd option
2002 - 27/6/5 ( with HOF shaq ) 2nd HIGHEST ALL TIME 2nd option
2009 - 30/5/5 ( with HOF pau )
2010 - 30/6/5 ( with HOF pau )




f*ggot

:lol


lol@ your 5 points off estimate... ok duncan averaged 22-23 instead of 20



happy?

[SouBeachTalents]

20 ppg for his 1st title ( lockout* )
23 ppg for his 2nd title
20 ppg for his 3rd title 40% fg's ( manu 20ppg 60% fg's )
17 ppg for his 4th title ( 2nd option )
15 ppg for his 5th title ( 3rd option )


meh


gimmy

21ppg for 1st title
29ppg for 2nd title ( #1 all time 2nd leading ppg )
27ppg for 3rd title ( #2 all time 2nd leading ppg )
30ppg for 4th title
30ppg for 5th title



thats alpha sh*t ... f*ck duncant



Man that Bill Russell must have been a total scrub then

[kennethgriffin]

Man that Bill Russell must have been a total scrub then


did duncan average 20-25 rpg?

i can understand that making up for a lack in scoring

but hes a 7 footer. 11rpg career is good. but it doesnt make up for his 2nd option esq scoring

[kennethgriffin]

and yes duncan is a great defender. but so is kobe. and neither won a DPOTY award. kobe has the edge in defensive accolades

even with duncan at F/F/C on the ballot every year... having 18 more chances in his career to make 1st team all defense. hes still behind


:oldlol:


and if we dont count 1st team all defenses then i dont count regular season mvps


cant have 1 voted award and not another

[T_L_P]

Duncan: (P/R/A)
1999 - 23/11/2 ( With HOF Robinson ) LOCKOUT********* VOID
2003 - 24/15/5 ( with HOF Robinspn/Parker )
2005 - 23/12/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2007 - 22/11/3 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2014 - 16/9/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili and FMVP Leonard )

Kobe: (P/R/A)
2000 - 21/5/5 ( with HOF Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( with HOF shaq ) HIGHEST ALL TIME 2nd option
2002 - 27/6/5 ( with HOF shaq ) 2nd HIGHEST ALL TIME 2nd option
2009 - 30/5/5 ( with HOF pau )
2010 - 30/6/5 ( with HOF pau )




f*ggot

:lol


lol@ your 5 points off estimate... ok duncan averaged 22-23 instead of 20



happy?

Are you honestly retarded?

You wrote 17 PPG for 07, then you just admitted it was 22 PPG, which is 5 points.

Jesus Christ, dude. :facepalm

[Sakkreth]

Lol what debate Kobe not close to Duncan. This troll...

[kennethgriffin]

Are you honestly retarded?

You wrote 17 PPG for 07, then you just admitted it was 22 PPG, which is 5 points.

Jesus Christ, dude. :facepalm


i was probably thinking of his nba finals average ... he had 18.3ppg

thats perty darn close i tell ya

:lol

[T_L_P]

i was probably thinking of his nba finals average ... he had 18.3ppg

thats perty darn close i tell ya

:lol

The funny thing is, you had to re-read your post to pinpoint the 23 PPG - 20 PPG stuff, which means you must have looked at the 07 numbers.

And you still couldn't figure it out. :oldlol:

[West-Side]

did duncan average 20-25 rpg?

i can understand that making up for a lack in scoring

but hes a 7 footer. 11rpg career doesnt make up for his 2nd option esq scoring

Duncan was the man in his first 3 championship years. Heck, he was the best Spur player in 2007 too.
He did a lot for his team; he was better than Kobe from 99' to 05'. Ever since then, Kobe was clearly superior.

Kobe's contribution to 4 of his 5 titles are on par with Duncan's 4 of his 5 titles. Kobe clearly was a bigger star in 2000 than Duncan was in 2014. So this entire "Duncan won more as the #1 option" is such a poor argument. Duncan wouldn't have been #1 option with a prime Shaq, either.

Duncan was a great playmaker, rebounder and shot blocker. He was the anchor defensively; one of the very best defensive forces in the league.

To me, Kobe & Duncan are interchangeable in the all-time rankings. I just don't understand this constant hate towards Kobe. He made this game enjoyable to watch for such a long time yet people still don't appreciate his skills, accomplishments, work ethic and demeanor.

[kennethgriffin]

Lol what debate Kobe not close to Duncan. This troll...

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/11090247/all-nba-players




1.Michael Jordan

2.Magic Johnson

3.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

4.Larry Bird

5.Wilt Chamberlain

6.Bill Russell

7.Kobe Bryant

8.LeBron James

9.Tim Duncan

10.Shaquille O'Neal







everyones trollin i guess

[DMAVS41]

Duncan was the man in his first 3 championship years. Heck, he was the best Spur player in 2007 too.
He did a lot for his team; he was better than Kobe from 99' to 05'. Ever since then, Kobe was clearly superior.

Kobe's contribution to 4 of his 5 titles are on par with Duncan's 4 of his 5 titles. Kobe clearly was a bigger star in 2000 than Duncan was in 2014. So this entire "Duncan won more as the #1 option" is such a poor argument. Duncan wouldn't have been #1 option with a prime Shaq, either.

Duncan was a great playmaker, rebounder and shot blocker. He was the anchor defensively; one of the very best defensive forces in the league.

To me, Kobe & Duncan are interchangeable in the all-time rankings. I just don't understand this constant hate towards Kobe. He made this game enjoyable to watch for such a long time yet people still don't appreciate his skills, accomplishments, work ethic and demeanor.

A lot of what you say is true, but I don't see how Kobe was better than Duncan in 14 and 15....

I also think Duncan was better in 13 as well.

I don't want to debate this year to year shit....because that isn't a great way to do it anyway, but I need to know how Kobe was clearly superior to Duncan in years like 06, 07, 13, 14, and 15.

I just don't think Kobe was better those years, but that is debatable at least some of those years...but clearly superior? You are going to need to support that in some way.

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan was the man in his first 3 championship years. Heck, he was the best Spur player in 2007 too.
He did a lot for his team; he was better than Kobe from 99' to 05'. Ever since then, Kobe was clearly superior.

Kobe's contribution to 4 of his 5 titles are on par with Duncan's 4 of his 5 titles. Kobe clearly was a bigger star in 2000 than Duncan was in 2014. So this entire "Duncan won more as the #1 option" is such a poor argument. Duncan wouldn't have been #1 option with a prime Shaq, either.

Duncan was a great playmaker, rebounder and shot blocker. He was the anchor defensively; one of the very best defensive forces in the league.

To me, Kobe & Duncan are interchangeable in the all-time rankings. I just don't understand this constant hate towards Kobe. He made this game enjoyable to watch for such a long time yet people still don't appreciate his skills, accomplishments, work ethic and demeanor.




being the best on a deep team averaging 22 ppg isnt as good as being the 2nd best on a shit 2 man team averaging 30ppg


kobes non finals mvp titles in 2001 and 2002 should be ranked higher than duncans 1999 lockout win against the crap knicks and 2005 fluke with manu being robbed for fmvp


the end all be all isnt the mvp.

[West-Side]

A lot of what you say is true, but I don't see how Kobe was better than Duncan in 14 and 15....

I also think Duncan was better in 13 as well.

What? :roll:
Do you not remember what Kobe was doing that year before his Achilles tear? The man was clocking 48 minutes a game so LA can make the playoffs; while Duncan was taking half the game off. Heck, Pop was even resting the man every other week it seemed.

Please, if you honestly believe Duncan was more valuable to SA than Kobe was to LA that year, you need to re-watch that season again.

The fact that LA were swept by SA without Kobe, only re-assures my beliefs.

[kennethgriffin]

and finally.... the headliner... the main event... the showstoppa.... your last nominee and induction into the class of 2021....





















http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/290561-1/Kobe+Bryant+smiles+at+a+press+conference+after+the +Lakers+season+ended+2011.JPG
http://i60.tinypic.com/eagisx.jpg

[DMAVS41]

What? :roll:
Do you not remember what Kobe was doing that year before his Achilles tear? The man was clocking 48 minutes a game so LA can make the playoffs; while Duncan was taking half the game off. Heck, Pop was even resting the man every other week it seemed.

Please, if you honestly believe Duncan was more valuable to SA than Kobe was to LA that year, you need to re-watch that season again.

The fact that LA were swept by SA without Kobe, only re-assures my beliefs.


I don't need to watch again. And I can absolutely support that Duncan's two way great play was more valuable than Kobe's scoring.

But like I said...I think it's debatable.

Notice how you picked out 13 and went nuts...the standard Kobe argument.

Lets start with the more absurd comment.

Tell me how Kobe was "clearly superior" to Duncan in 14 and 15.

Once you are done with that...I'll explain why Duncan was a better and more valuable player in 13 than Kobe was.

[West-Side]

being the best on a deep team averaging 22 ppg isnt as good as being the 2nd best on a shit 2 man team averaging 30ppg


kobes non finals mvp titles in 2001 and 2002 should be ranked higher than duncans 1999 lockout win against the crap knicks and 2005 fluke with manu being robbed for fmvp


the end all be all isnt the mvp.

I don't know about 1999; but 2001 & 2002 Kobe was definitely as important (if not more so) than 2007 Duncan.

Bottom line is; Duncan has had the opportunity to be the man since he was drafted. Kobe spent half of his career playing with Shaq. He was considered a top 5 player, a superstar, during that time span.

It should not be held against him.
Duncan has 1 more MVP and 1 more FMVP yet he played as the man for almost a decade more.

[funnystuff]

Duncan >> Kobe

[West-Side]

I don't need to watch again. And I can absolutely support that Duncan's two way great play was more valuable than Kobe's scoring.

But like I said...I think it's debatable.

Notice how you picked out 13 and went nuts...the standard Kobe argument.

Lets start with the more absurd comment.

Tell me how Kobe was "clearly superior" to Duncan in 14 and 15.

Once you are done with that...I'll explain why Duncan was a better and more valuable player in 13 than Kobe was.

He wasn't, at all.

98-2005 - Duncan
2006 - 2013 - Kobe
2014 - 2015 - Duncan

The problem with this argument is this though:

Kobe from 2000-2005 contributed more to his team than Duncan has from 2009 - 2015.

[guy]

One way to look at it is Duncan was better 98-05, Kobe was better 06-12, Duncan was better 13-16 (might as well just pencil this year in. Kobe is either going to get hurt or one of the most inefficient players ever.). That's 12 for Duncan vs 7 for Kobe.

[DMAVS41]

He wasn't, at all.

98-2005 - Duncan
2006 - 2013 - Kobe
2014 - 2015 - Duncan

The problem with this argument is this though:

Kobe from 2000-2005 contributed more to his team than Duncan has from 2009 - 2015.

LOL...you made the argument. Not me.

You said Kobe was "clearly superior" since 05. So now you are coming off that.

Me personally? I don't really like to do this year by year thing all that much.

I think Duncan clearly has been the better player at this point though.

In my opinion:

Duncan had the better peak (03 Duncan is the best version of either player)
Duncan is the better teammate (nothing really needs to be said here...it's just a fact)
Duncan's teams have had more success overall (over 50 wins every single year outside of 1 lockout year)
Duncan has better longevity (Duncan came into the league elite from day 1 and never had the learning curve years Kobe had)
Duncan has been more durable (Duncan hasn't missed nearly as much time as Kobe)
Duncan can impact the game in more ways (He can play with a larger variety of teams and players and coaches and systems)

Then we can get into stats and advanced stats...and they all favor Duncan as well.

At some point...just kind of have to agree it's close to a basketball fact when all of the above is in the favor of a player.

I just don't see much left for Kobe in this argument.

[Carbine]

Duncan has 3 FMVP; but yet guys like Parker and Leonard won the other two from him. If he was so alpha and so damn great; he would never let players of that calibre win.

But I guess people still think "he's the man" even though he's been a glorified role player the last 5 years. What Kobe did in 2013, is carry a team on his back as an ALPHA; before his Achilles tear. Something Duncan hasn't done in almost 7 years. Yet we're talking about being the "MAN".

**** off.

Magic in his prime lost it to Worthy. Bird lost it to Maxwell.

Garnett lost it to PP.

Isiah Thomas lost it to Dumars.

You could easily make the argument Duncan was their MVP in 07. He was clearly their best player throughout the year and playoffs.

'14 he wasnt a glorified role player. He put up similar numbers in the playoffs as the All NBA first team Marc Gasol did this year. Tim wasnt their best player but he was a very importany peice.

[kennethgriffin]

I don't know about 1999; but 2001 & 2002 Kobe was definitely as important (if not more so) than 2007 Duncan.

Bottom line is; Duncan has had the opportunity to be the man since he was drafted. Kobe spent half of his career playing with Shaq. He was considered a top 5 player, a superstar, during that time span.

It should not be held against him.
Duncan has 1 more MVP and 1 more FMVP yet he played as the man for almost a decade more.




i rank em


#1 - kobe 2009 - 30ppg with no other top 50 player
#2 - kobe 2010 - 30ppg with no other top 50 player
#3 - kobe 2001 - 29ppg #1 all time average by a 2nd option (15-1 all time record )
#4 - duncan 2003 - 24ppg but only spanked a shit jersey team
#5 - kobe 2002 - 27ppg #2 all time average by a 2nd option
#6 - duncan 2005 - manu probly shoulda been fmvp
#7 - duncan 2007 - ok title as parkers wingman
#8 - kobe 2000 - WCF game 7 MVP, 21ppg, saved game 4 of the finals
#9 - duncan 2014 - lame title as 3rd option
#10 - duncan 1999 - void lockout garbage

[HOoopCityJones]

He wasn't, at all.

98-2005 - Duncan
2006 - 2013 - Kobe
2014 - 2015 - Duncan

The problem with this argument is this though:

Kobe from 2000-2005 contributed more to his team than Duncan has from 2009 - 2015.

Don't even bother arguing with him. The moment he said Duncan was better than a guy who averaged 27, 6 & 6 literally carrying an injury riddled Lakers Team into the playoffs before his own injury while Duncan choked away his 5th Finals appearance by bricking layups vs Shane Battier should tell you how full of shit DMAVS is.

At the end of the day it all comes back to this. https://youtu.be/Stu1w9QhlNA

The guy has infinite PTSD from that game.

[ShawkFactory]

my bad. i shoulda just went the ISH intelligent way and said:

"kobe > duncan"
Would have saved you a lot of time.

[kennethgriffin]

One way to look at it is Duncan was better 98-05, Kobe was better 06-12, Duncan was better 13-16 (might as well just pencil this year in. Kobe is either going to get hurt or one of the most inefficient players ever.). That's 12 for Duncan vs 7 for Kobe.


you think duncan was a better player in 2001 or 2013?

:oldlol:





2014 and 2015 dont really count since kobes career ended with the achilles injury



its

1998 - duncan
1999 - duncan
2000 - duncan
2001 - kobe
2002 - duncan
2003 - duncan
2004 - duncan
2005 - duncan
2006 - kobe
2007 - kobe
2008 - kobe
2009 - kobe
2010 - kobe
2011 - kobe
2012 - kobe
2013 - kobe

[DMAVS41]

Don't even bother arguing with him. The moment he said Duncan was better than a guy who averaged 27, 6 & 6 literally carrying an injury riddled Lakers Team into the playoffs before his own injury while Duncan choked away his 5th Finals appearance by bricking layups vs Shane Battier should tell you how full of shit DMAVS is.

At the end of the day it all comes back to this. https://youtu.be/Stu1w9QhlNA

The guy has infinite PTSD from that game.


2013 RAPM:

Duncan 5.25

Kobe .44

You guys just under-rate Duncan in 13. He made all nba first team and all defense first team...and actually deserved both honors.

I don't even have to mention Kobe wearing down and getting hurt. Just on basketball alone I'd take Duncan.

Funny how those objective measures agree with me here....but yep...I'm delusional.

:cheers:

[West-Side]

One way to look at it is Duncan was better 98-05, Kobe was better 06-12, Duncan was better 13-16 (might as well just pencil this year in. Kobe is either going to get hurt or one of the most inefficient players ever.). That's 12 for Duncan vs 7 for Kobe.

The other way to look it.

Duncan: 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06 (9 season's as top 5)
Kobe: 01, 02, 03, 04, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12 (11 season's as top 5)

2013; Kobe was definitely better.
You guys are trolling me, right?

Kobe: 27.3 PPG, 6.0 APG, 5.3 RPG, .463 FG%, 84% FT, 1.4 SPG in 38 MPG
Duncan: 17.8 PPG, 9.9 RPG, 2.7 APG, 2.7 BPG, .502 FG% in 30 MPG

So let me get this straight; you guys think that a guy who played 30 MPG was better and more valuable than a guy who put up 27/6/5 on 46% while playing 38 MPG and carried his team into the playoffs.

Okay, whatever floats your boat.
This is exactly why Kobe is so damn underrated.
You guys forget how brilliant the man was in the last 3/4 weeks prior to his injury in the 4th quarter? The man torched Toronto, made huge shots against Golden State and countless other teams when his team was battling to stay above the .500 mark.

The team finished above .500 in huge part because of what Kobe was doing on the basketball court for them.

Duncan was terrific as well; a defensive anchor but he wasn't the FOCAL point on that Spurs team offensively; he played 2/3 of the game and took nights off for rest. D'Antoni literally ended Kobe's career that year because he knew he was their only hope of making the playoffs.

[kennethgriffin]

kobe in 2013 was the 3rd best player in the nba behind lebron and durant


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P674MK3AwSk

[BlakFrankWhite]

i rank em


#1 - kobe 2009 - 30ppg with no other top 50 player
#2 - kobe 2010 - 30ppg with no other top 50 player
#3 - kobe 2001 - 29ppg #1 all time average by a 2nd option (15-1 all time record )
#4 - duncan 2003 - 24ppg but only spanked a shit jersey team
#5 - kobe 2002 - 27ppg #2 all time average by a 2nd option
#6 - duncan 2005 - manu probly shoulda been fmvp
#7 - duncan 2007 - ok title as parkers wingman
#8 - kobe 2000 - WCF game 7 MVP, 21ppg, saved game 4 of the finals
#9 - duncan 2014 - lame title as 3rd option
#10 - duncan 1999 - void lockout garbage


Such an unbiased post :rolleyes:

[riseagainst]

i rank em


#1 - kobe 2009 - 30ppg with no other top 50 player
#2 - kobe 2010 - 30ppg with no other top 50 player
#3 - kobe 2001 - 29ppg #1 all time average by a 2nd option (15-1 all time record )
#4 - duncan 2003 - 24ppg but only spanked a shit jersey team
#5 - kobe 2002 - 27ppg #2 all time average by a 2nd option
#6 - duncan 2005 - manu probly shoulda been fmvp
#7 - duncan 2007 - ok title as parkers wingman
#8 - kobe 2000 - WCF game 7 MVP, 21ppg, saved game 4 of the finals
#9 - duncan 2014 - lame title as 3rd option
#10 - duncan 1999 - void lockout garbage

:lol
:roll:

[BlakFrankWhite]

Btw Duncan was superb in the 2014 WCF..

By far Spurs best player in that series.....considering Westbrook murdered Parker...and Durant was schooling Kawhi.

It was Duncan that carried his team to the finals

[kennethgriffin]

The other way to look it.

Duncan: 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06 (9 season's as top 5)
Kobe: 01, 02, 03, 04, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12 (11 season's as top 5)

2013; Kobe was definitely better.
You guys are trolling me, right?

Kobe: 27.3 PPG, 6.0 APG, 5.3 RPG, .463 FG%, 84% FT, 1.4 SPG in 38 MPG
Duncan: 17.8 PPG, 9.9 RPG, 2.7 APG, 2.7 BPG, .502 FG% in 30 MPG

So let me get this straight; you guys think that a guy who played 30 MPG was better and more valuable than a guy who put up 27/6/5 on 46% while playing 38 MPG and carried his team into the playoffs.

Okay, whatever floats your boat.
This is exactly why Kobe is so damn underrated.
You guys forget how brilliant the man was in the last 3/4 weeks prior to his injury in the 4th quarter? The man torched Toronto, made huge shots against Golden State and countless other teams when his team was battling to stay above the .500 mark.

The team finished above .500 in huge part because of what Kobe was doing on the basketball court for them.

Duncan was terrific as well; a defensive anchor but he wasn't the FOCAL point on that Spurs team offensively; he played 2/3 of the game and took nights off for rest. D'Antoni literally ended Kobe's career that year because he knew he was their only hope of making the playoffs.


kobe was top 5 in 2013 too

[DMAVS41]

The other way to look it.

Duncan: 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06 (9 season's as top 5)
Kobe: 01, 02, 03, 04, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12 (11 season's as top 5)

2013; Kobe was definitely better.
You guys are trolling me, right?

Kobe: 27.3 PPG, 6.0 APG, 5.3 RPG, .463 FG%, 84% FT, 1.4 SPG in 38 MPG
Duncan: 17.8 PPG, 9.9 RPG, 2.7 APG, 2.7 BPG, .502 FG% in 30 MPG

So let me get this straight; you guys think that a guy who played 30 MPG was better and more valuable than a guy who put up 27/6/5 on 46% while playing 38 MPG and carried his team into the playoffs.

Okay, whatever floats your boat.
This is exactly why Kobe is so damn underrated.
You guys forget how brilliant the man was in the last 3/4 weeks prior to his injury in the 4th quarter? The man torched Toronto, made huge shots against Golden State and countless other teams when his team was battling to stay above the .500 mark.

The team finished above .500 in huge part because of what Kobe was doing on the basketball court for them.

Duncan was terrific as well; a defensive anchor but he wasn't the FOCAL point on that Spurs team offensively; he played 2/3 of the game and took nights off for rest. D'Antoni literally ended Kobe's career that year because he knew he was their only hope of making the playoffs.

Whatever your opinion...stop acting like Duncan wasn't one of the best players in the league in 2013.

You also can't use Kobe playing more minutes as an argument in favor of him unless you also factor in the injury into this.

What do you think would have happened if you played Duncan 38 minutes a game? He would have put up much better numbers and then worn down and got hurt.

So your argument here really doesn't make sense.

[KG215]

I love it when Griff goes into his "copy and paste long lists of accolades" argument mode that's almost entirely centered around points scored. It really shows how much of a biased dumbass he really is because it ignores the extremely wide gap between Duncan's impact compared to Kobe's impact on the defensive end.

[West-Side]

Don't even bother arguing with him. The moment he said Duncan was better than a guy who averaged 27, 6 & 6 literally carrying an injury riddled Lakers Team into the playoffs before his own injury while Duncan choked away his 5th Finals appearance by bricking layups vs Shane Battier should tell you how full of shit DMAVS is.

At the end of the day it all comes back to this. https://youtu.be/Stu1w9QhlNA

The guy has infinite PTSD from that game.

Yeah absolutely rediculous. I am actually in shock.
I thought they were trolling me but seem genuine about this. :facepalm

[BlakFrankWhite]

I love it when Griff goes into his "copy and paste long lists of accolades" argument mode that's almost entirely centered around points scored. It really shows how much of a biased dumbass he really is.


Exactly...anmd if your bring up that AI and Lebron are better scorers...he's like "stats don't matter....rings and leadership do"

First class hypocrite and an A-hole

[DMAVS41]

Yeah absolutely rediculous. I am actually in shock.
I thought they were trolling me but seem genuine about this. :facepalm

If you really think it's trolling to take Duncan in 13...you don't know the game.

Again...post real evidence. Post something other than raw stats that doesn't do anything to show real impact.

Why do all the best advanced measures have Duncan as better?

Why aren't there articles like this being written about 13 Duncan?

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2013/1/11/3864814/kobe-bryant-is-ruining-kobe-bryants-historic-season


Again, whatever your opinion, and it's okay to take Kobe here...don't act like Duncan wasn't an elite player in the game in 13.

He was 7th in RAPM....first team all nba and 2nd team all defense (again...and deserved those honors)

Stop being an idiot....

[HOoopCityJones]

Objective my ass, you went for the first metric you could find that said Duncan > Kobe without putting anything into context. Duncan may have been the better rebounder and rim protector but at this point in his career that's his biggest value to SA aside from his leadership. He's a role player.

Kobe scored more , had more steals, assists and still managed to grab at least 5 boards for the season.

Duncan in 2013- 9.9 reb 2.7 asst .7 stl 2.7 blks 17.8 pts


Role player numbers no matter how you slice it, you can get the same production from most bigs in the league. What Kobe was doing only Durant and Lebron were better.

[Carbine]

Holy **** how can people forget what happened in 13? It was only a couple years ago!

Kobe was literally a DH. He played offense and sat out on defense. He was one of the worst defensive guards in 13.

[K Xerxes]

i rank em


#1 - kobe 2009 - 30ppg with no other top 50 player
#2 - kobe 2010 - 30ppg with no other top 50 player
#3 - kobe 2001 - 29ppg #1 all time average by a 2nd option (15-1 all time record )
#4 - duncan 2003 - 24ppg but only spanked a shit jersey team
#5 - kobe 2002 - 27ppg #2 all time average by a 2nd option
#6 - duncan 2005 - manu probly shoulda been fmvp
#7 - duncan 2007 - ok title as parkers wingman
#8 - kobe 2000 - WCF game 7 MVP, 21ppg, saved game 4 of the finals
#9 - duncan 2014 - lame title as 3rd option
#10 - duncan 1999 - void lockout garbage

2003 is UNQUESTIONABLY #1 out of that. You list Tony Parker and David Robinson as his 'HOF' help, but completely ignore context. Parker was 20 that year, and averaged 15-3-3 on 42.5% that playoffs. Robinson was just a 37 year old shell, putting up 8ppg and 7rpg.

Duncan spanked your Lakers putting up 28-12-5, and then DOMINATED the finals like Kobe has never done with 24-17-5 with 5 blocks, including a closeout 21-20-10-8 game.

[West-Side]

Whatever your opinion...stop acting like Duncan wasn't one of the best players in the league in 2013.

You also can't use Kobe playing more minutes as an argument in favor of him unless you also factor in the injury into this.

What do you think would have happened if you played Duncan 38 minutes a game? He would have put up much better numbers and then worn down and got hurt.

So your argument here really doesn't make sense.

How does my argument not make sense?
You don't think Duncan's numbers would have went down if Pop pushed him to play more? Kobe should have never clocked in 38 MPG.

Which is exactly why he was more valuable to his team, right?
Also; Kobe put up 27/6/5 on 46%. For a shooting guard, that rivals some of Duncan's best years.

I just think you forgot how legendary Kobe was.
And yes I called him legendary, because for his age; to do what he did late in that year was historical. It was one of the memories I will hold dearest to me when it comes to Kobe's career.

Maybe I sounded like I thought Duncan's 2013 wasn't great; but it's a simple misunderstanding. Duncan was great that year, one of the very best big man and a top 10 player. Kobe was simply ... better.

[T_L_P]

The other way to look it.

Duncan: 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06 (9 season's as top 5)
Kobe: 01, 02, 03, 04, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12 (11 season's as top 5)

2013; Kobe was definitely better.
You guys are trolling me, right?

Kobe: 27.3 PPG, 6.0 APG, 5.3 RPG, .463 FG%, 84% FT, 1.4 SPG in 38 MPG
Duncan: 17.8 PPG, 9.9 RPG, 2.7 APG, 2.7 BPG, .502 FG% in 30 MPG

So let me get this straight; you guys think that a guy who played 30 MPG was better and more valuable than a guy who put up 27/6/5 on 46% while playing 38 MPG and carried his team into the playoffs.

Okay, whatever floats your boat.
This is exactly why Kobe is so damn underrated.
You guys forget how brilliant the man was in the last 3/4 weeks prior to his injury in the 4th quarter? The man torched Toronto, made huge shots against Golden State and countless other teams when his team was battling to stay above the .500 mark.

The team finished above .500 in huge part because of what Kobe was doing on the basketball court for them.

Duncan was terrific as well; a defensive anchor but he wasn't the FOCAL point on that Spurs team offensively; he played 2/3 of the game and took nights off for rest. D'Antoni literally ended Kobe's career that year because he knew he was their only hope of making the playoffs.

How was Duncan not top 5 in 07?

All-NBA 1st Team, All-Defensive 1st Team, won NBA title as team's best player.

He finished #1 in RAPM by a wide margin.

https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/2007-rapm

8.8 for Duncan, then LeBron at 7.3.

#4 in RS PER
#3 in RS Win Shares (tied with Kobe)
#3 in RS WS/48
#4 in RS Box +/-
#2 in Value Over Replacement

#2 in Playoff PER
#2 in Playoff Win Shares
#2 in Playoff WS/48
#4 in Playoff Box +/-
#2 in Playoff Value Over Replacement

Laughable to say he wasn't top five in 2007. He was easily top three.

[KG215]

Exactly...anmd if your bring up that AI and Lebron are better scorers...he's like "stats don't matter....rings and leadership do"

First class hypocrite and an A-hole
Yeah, there's no poster worse about constantly changing his criteria for critiquing/ranking/comparing players. He's forever "moving the goalposts" to wherever they need to be moved to make Kobe look better. He's probably contradicted himself more than any poster in ISH history.

[DMAVS41]

Here is an important question for a lot of people in this thread.

Was 05 Gilbert Arenas clearly better than 13 Duncan? Please answer.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Objective my ass, you went for the first metric you could find that said Duncan > Kobe without putting anything into context. Duncan may have been the better rebounder and rim protector but at this point in his career that's his biggest value to SA aside from his leadership. He's a role player.

Kobe scored more , had more steals, assists and still managed to grab at least 5 boards for the season.

Duncan in 2013- 9.9 reb 2.7 asst .7 stl 2.7 blks 17.8 pts


Role player numbers no matter how you slice it, you can get the same production from most bigs in the league. What Kobe was doing only Durant and Lebron were better.

So 18/10/3/3 at the age of 38....while playing limited minutes
:wtf:

Top 3 ever

[T_L_P]

2003 is UNQUESTIONABLY #1 out of that. You list Tony Parker and David Robinson as his 'HOF' help, but completely ignore context. Parker was 20 that year, and averaged 15-3-3 on 42.5% that playoffs. Robinson was just a 37 year old shell, putting up 8ppg and 7rpg.

Duncan spanked your Lakers putting up 28-12-5, and then DOMINATED the finals like Kobe has never done with 24-17-5 with 5 blocks, including a closeout 21-20-10-8 game.

Parker actually shot 40.3% in the Playoffs, which is worse.

His TS% was .468.

In 03 he couldn't pass, shoot or defend, and he was Duncan's best or 2nd best teammate. :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

How does my argument not make sense?
You don't think Duncan's numbers would have went down if Pop pushed him to play more? Kobe should have never clocked in 38 MPG.

Which is exactly why he was more valuable to his team, right?
Also; Kobe put up 27/6/5 on 46%. For a shooting guard, that rivals some of Duncan's best years.

I just think you forgot how legendary Kobe was.
And yes I called him legendary, because for his age; to do what he did late in that year was historical. It was one of the memories I will hold dearest to me when it comes to Kobe's career.

Maybe I sounded like I thought Duncan's 2013 wasn't great; but it's a simple misunderstanding. Duncan was great that year, one of the very best big man and a top 10 player. Kobe was simply ... better.


Do I think Duncan's numbers would have gone down if he had played more? What?

No...his efficiency and defense would have dropped a bit, but his raw numbers would have gone way up playing 38 minutes a game.

He, like Kobe, just would have worn down and gotten hurt.

Hence your argument doesn't make sense if you award Kobe extra points for his better raw numbers, but don't factor in him getting hurt. The two are connected.

If Kobe played 30 minutes...his numbers would have been worse.

You really don't follow that?

[RRR3]

Objective my ass, you went for the first metric you could find that said Duncan > Kobe without putting anything into context. Duncan may have been the better rebounder and rim protector but at this point in his career that's his biggest value to SA aside from his leadership. He's a role player.

Kobe scored more , had more steals, assists and still managed to grab at least 5 boards for the season.

Duncan in 2013- 9.9 reb 2.7 asst .7 stl 2.7 blks 17.8 pts


Role player numbers no matter how you slice it, you can get the same production from most bigs in the league. What Kobe was doing only Durant and Lebron were better.

17.8/9.9/2.7/0.7/2.7 on 50.2% in 30.1 MPG (per 36: 21.3/11.9/3.2/0.9/3.2)

18.1/10.2/1.9/0.9/1.6 on 47% in playoffs

All-Star, All-NBA 1st, All-Defensive 2nd Team




"Role Player doe"







:yaohappy:

[DMAVS41]

Holy **** how can people forget what happened in 13? It was only a couple years ago!

Kobe was literally a DH. He played offense and sat out on defense. He was one of the worst defensive guards in 13.

Someone gets it.

[BlakFrankWhite]

17.8/9.9/2.7/0.7/2.7 on 50.2% in 30.1 MPG (per 36: 21.3/11.9/3.2/0.9/3.2)

18.1/10.2/1.9/0.9/1.6 on 47% in playoffs

All-Star, All-NBA 1st, All-Defensive 2nd Team




"Role Player doe"







:yaohappy:

RAT POISON

[DMAVS41]

Here is an important question for a lot of people in this thread.

Was 05 Gilbert Arenas clearly better than 13 Duncan? Please answer.

[HOoopCityJones]

So 18/10/3/3 at the age of 38....while playing limited minutes
:wtf:

Top 3 ever

He's already Top 5-10 all time, what more do you cocksmokers want? :biggums:


Kobe was injured for the playoffs so who knows how insane he would've went that year, especially facing his favorite opponent in the Spurs the very first round. Trust me , Pop and Duncan were ecstatic they didn't have to face Kobe in 2013.

[RRR3]

Here is an important question for a lot of people in this thread.

Was 05 Gilbert Arenas clearly better than 13 Duncan? Please answer.
No of course not. He wasn't as sexy or alpha as "BigDickBe"


/Mr. Jibber Jabber




:rolleyes:

[West-Side]

How was Duncan not top 5 in 07?

All-NBA 1st Team, All-Defensive 1st Team, won NBA title as team's best player.

He finished #1 in RAPM by a wide margin.

https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/2007-rapm

8.8 for Duncan, then LeBron at 7.3.

#4 in RS PER
#3 in RS Win Shares (tied with Kobe)
#3 in RS WS/48
#4 in RS Box +/-
#2 in Value Over Replacement

#2 in Playoff PER
#2 in Playoff Win Shares
#2 in Playoff WS/48
#4 in Playoff Box +/-
#2 in Playoff Value Over Replacement

Laughable to say he wasn't top five in 2007. He was easily top three.

The years I picked out were undisputed.
I could have included Kobe's 2013 season as well; but I don't think it was as clear cut. Same with Timmy in 2007.

Kobe, LeBron, Nash, Dirk, Howard, Garnett.
Does Duncan make it into the top 5 that year?

I'm not sure man...

[Doranku]

He's already Top 5-10 all time, what more do you cocksmokers want? :biggums:


Kobe was injured for the playoffs so who knows how insane he would've went that year, especially facing his favorite opponent in the Spurs the very first round. Trust me , Pop and Duncan were ecstatic they didn't have to face Kobe in 2013.

It really is a shame we didn't get to see Kobe in the playoffs that year. The Lakers were rolling post-ASB and Kobe was killing teams right up until his injury.

Who knows what might have happened? :cry:

[BlakFrankWhite]

He's already Top 5-10 all time, what more do you cocksmokers want? :biggums:


Kobe was injured for the playoffs so who knows how insane he would've went that year, especially facing his favorite opponent in the Spurs the very first round. Trust me , Pop and Duncan were ecstatic they didn't have to face Kobe in 2013.

Lol 2013 Kobe wouldn't have stopped them....The Spurs were 12-1 in the Western conference playoffs

[HOoopCityJones]

17.8/9.9/2.7/0.7/2.7 on 50.2% in 30.1 MPG (per 36: 21.3/11.9/3.2/0.9/3.2)

18.1/10.2/1.9/0.9/1.6 on 47% in playoffs

All-Star, All-NBA 1st, All-Defensive 2nd Team




"Role Player doe"







:yaohappy:


Where was he on the MVP ballot that season? You argue from the vantage point of Duncan playing an entire post season while Kobe was clearly out with injury , you honestly think he wouldn't have balled out of his mind that year facing The Spurs of all people? :biggums:

Ya'll continue this revisionist history where Kobe hasn't made Timmy his bitch in the playoffs their entire careers.


Ni99as so shhok they comparing post season stats against a guy who was out. :lol

[DMAVS41]

The years I picked out were undisputed.
I could have included Kobe's 2013 season as well; but I don't think it was as clear cut. Same with Timmy in 2007.

Kobe, LeBron, Nash, Dirk, Howard, Garnett.
Does Duncan make it into the top 5 that year?

I'm not sure man...

LOL...Duncan has the best case for being the best player in 07.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Here is an important question for a lot of people in this thread.

Was 05 Gilbert Arenas clearly better than 13 Duncan? Please answer.

damn, you just ruined their agenda

[DMAVS41]

Where was he on the MVP ballot that season? You argue from the vantage point of Duncan playing an entire post season while Kobe was clearly out with injury , you honestly think he wouldn't have balled out of his mind that year facing The Spurs of all people? :biggums:

Ya'll continue this revisionist history where Kobe hasn't made Timmy his bitch in the playoffs their entire careers.


Ni99as so shhok they comparing post season stats against a guy who was out. :lol

Wasn't Duncan like number 7 in mvp voting in 2013? What are you clowns talking about?

[HOoopCityJones]

Lol 2013 Kobe wouldn't have stopped them....The Spurs were 12-1 in the Western conference playoffs

Bro, you ignore impact/ history to glorify narrative. Kobe was playing MVP basketball in 2013, to say that Lakers Team led by Kobe (who was still in Top form) wouldn't of had a chance to beat the Spurs is flat out malarkey.

[T_L_P]

The years I picked out were undisputed.
I could have included Kobe's 2013 season as well; but I don't think it was as clear cut. Same with Timmy in 2007.

Kobe, LeBron, Nash, Dirk, Howard, Garnett.
Does Duncan make it into the top 5 that year?

I'm not sure man...

Dwight fcking Howard?

He put up 17/12/2/2 in the RS.

Duncan put up 20/11/3/2.5.

Duncan beats him by wide margins in all of those mentioned advanced stats.


Dwight put up 15/15/2/1 in his 4 Playoff games.

Duncan put up 22/12/3/3 in his 20 Playoff games.

Duncan decimates him in all of those mentioned advanced stats.

What are you talking about?

Nobody is taking Nash over Duncan. His MVPs were deserving (his first one was at least) because of his impact on his specific team. But Duncan was the better player, and had a better/more valuable season in 07.

So that's 4 that can be argued over Duncan, which makes him top 5. And realistically, Duncan had the clear edge of Dirk and Garnett.

[HOoopCityJones]

Wasn't Duncan like number 7 in mvp voting in 2013? What are you clowns talking about?

If he was , then he was. But I remember Parker being higher than Duncan in MVP voting that year specifically.

[guy]

The other way to look it.

Duncan: 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06 (9 season's as top 5)
Kobe: 01, 02, 03, 04, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12 (11 season's as top 5)

2013; Kobe was definitely better.
You guys are trolling me, right?

Kobe: 27.3 PPG, 6.0 APG, 5.3 RPG, .463 FG%, 84% FT, 1.4 SPG in 38 MPG
Duncan: 17.8 PPG, 9.9 RPG, 2.7 APG, 2.7 BPG, .502 FG% in 30 MPG

So let me get this straight; you guys think that a guy who played 30 MPG was better and more valuable than a guy who put up 27/6/5 on 46% while playing 38 MPG and carried his team into the playoffs.

Okay, whatever floats your boat.
This is exactly why Kobe is so damn underrated.
You guys forget how brilliant the man was in the last 3/4 weeks prior to his injury in the 4th quarter? The man torched Toronto, made huge shots against Golden State and countless other teams when his team was battling to stay above the .500 mark.

The team finished above .500 in huge part because of what Kobe was doing on the basketball court for them.

Duncan was terrific as well; a defensive anchor but he wasn't the FOCAL point on that Spurs team offensively; he played 2/3 of the game and took nights off for rest. D'Antoni literally ended Kobe's career that year because he knew he was their only hope of making the playoffs.

In your argument, where is the fact that Kobe in the last 2 seasons probably couldn't have cracked the top 50-100 taken into account?

And Duncan wasn't top 5 in 07?

Kobe couldn't even last the whole season in 2013, while Duncan was the best player on a finals team. Injuries have to be taken into account. And before you say it was cause Kobe was willing his team to the playoffs, part of the reason he got into that position was cause he's not as good of a teammate or as coachable as Duncan is. Of course it wasn't all his fault but he wasn't blameless. All of that goes into who they are as players.

I'll admit my measure wasn't ideal. The better measure would be to just rank all of their seasons together and see who comes out more favorable. Don't feel like doing it but I'd probably guess that mid to best seasons are probably neck and neck with each other with Duncan having a slight advantage, while Duncan having a huge edge when it comes to their worst seasons.

[ShawkFactory]

Where was he on the MVP ballot that season? You argue from the vantage point of Duncan playing an entire post season while Kobe was clearly out with injury , you honestly think he wouldn't have balled out of his mind that year facing The Spurs of all people? :biggums:

Ya'll continue this revisionist history where Kobe hasn't made Timmy his bitch in the playoffs their entire careers.


Ni99as so shhok they comparing post season stats against a guy who was out. :lol
You REALLY think the Lakers would have beaten the Spurs that year? Or even had a chance? Come on now.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Dwight fcking Howard?

He put up 17/12/2/2 in the RS.

Duncan put up 20/11/3/2.5.

Duncan beats him by wide margins in all of those mentioned advanced stats.


Dwight put up 15/15/2/1 in his 4 Playoff games.

Duncan put up 22/12/3/3 in his 20 Playoff games.

Duncan decimates him in all of those mentioned advanced stats.

What are you talking about?

MURDER

[Doranku]

You REALLY think the Lakers would have beaten the Spurs that year? Or even had a chance? Come on now.

I think it would have been a completely different series. With how Kobe was playing and his track record against the Spurs, I think they'd have had an outside shot. :confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

If he was , then he was. But I remember Parker being higher than Duncan in MVP voting that year specifically.

IIRC...Parker was. I'm pretty sure Kobe was 5th, Parker was 6th, and Duncan was 7th.

Someone double check that. On phone.

[Doranku]

IIRC...Parker was. I'm pretty sure Kobe was 5th, Parker was 6th, and Duncan was 7th.

Someone double check that. On phone.

Yep that's right.

1. LBJ
2. KD
3. Melo :wtf:
4. CP3
5. Kobe
6. Parker
7. Duncan

[rmt]

The years I picked out were undisputed.
I could have included Kobe's 2013 season as well; but I don't think it was as clear cut. Same with Timmy in 2007.

Kobe, LeBron, Nash, Dirk, Howard, Garnett.
Does Duncan make it into the top 5 that year?

I'm not sure man...

2007 MVP voting
1 Dirk Nowitzki
2 Steve Nash
3 Kobe Bryant
4 Tim Duncan
5 LeBron James

[DMAVS41]

I think it would have been a completely different series. With how Kobe was playing and his track record against the Spurs, I think they'd have had an outside shot. :confusedshrug:

Absolutley. Kobe was great in 13 and would have changed that series. I was in the minority thinking the Lakers would have had a real shot.

[HOoopCityJones]

You REALLY think the Lakers would have beaten the Spurs that year? Or even had a chance? Come on now.

I think we split the series in the regular season. And Kobe was closing in on playoffs with The Lakers playing their best Basketball after the All star break. Putting up MvP caliber numbers. The fact you guys are trying so hard to downplay this is amusing.

That was the same Spurs Team that completely unraveled in one of the biggest choke jobs in Finals history. Stop trying to act like they were untouchable.

[West-Side]

Dwight fcking Howard?

He put up 17/12/2/2 in the RS.

Duncan put up 20/11/3/2.5.

Duncan beats him by wide margins in all of those mentioned advanced stats.


Dwight put up 15/15/2/1 in his 4 Playoff games.

Duncan put up 22/12/3/3 in his 20 Playoff games.

Duncan decimates him in all of those mentioned advanced stats.

What are you talking about?

Nobody is taking Nash over Duncan. His MVPs were deserving (his first one was at least) because of his impact on his specific team. But Duncan was the better player, and had a better/more valuable season in 07.

So that's 4 that can be argued over Duncan, which makes him top 5. And realistically, Duncan had the clear edge of Dirk and Garnett.

Fair enough, I just wasn't sure 100% if Duncan was a top five player. I preliminary wrote those years down. My point was; Kobe and Duncan's careers are very similar. Which is why to me they are interchangeable.

I could make a case for Kobe's 2013 season, which would make it 12 years for Kobe. And Kobe also got injured so his 2014/2015 seasons were a write off. And the way he was finishing off his 2013 season; it wouldn't be out of the question for Kobe to be a borderline top 5 player in those years either.

And don't make it seem like I'm doging Timmy in this thread. I simply believe Kobe was better than him in 2013. And as far as 07' goes; I simply wasn't sure. So you can give Timmy that year as well. :cheers:

[DMAVS41]

I think we split the series in the regular season. And Kobe was closing in on playoffs with The Lakers playing their best Basketball after the All star break. Putting up MvP caliber numbers. The fact you guys are trying so hard to downplay this is amusing.

That was the same Spurs Team that completely unraveled in one of the biggest choke jobs in Finals history. Stop trying to act like they were untouchable.

This.

I think the Spurs still likely win, but the Lakers with Kobe would have had a shot. Kobe would have actually tried hard on defense in the playoffs as well.

Pretending like the Lakers would have had no chance is silly imo, but I know I'm mostly in the minority here.

[Anaximandro1]

What debate? only exists in your imagination, OP

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2Ge7xFXnf9Q/VZsyqg0n-VI/AAAAAAAAEgc/jXmv_I0bwJs/s1600/5.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dqCSLxOe2Wk/VOJiOfuQL3I/AAAAAAAAD0U/pCwTWXJg6G4/s1600/26.jpg




Every time Bean looks at his rings, he should thank God that he had the opportunity to play with prime Shaq
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SQe6Af7D0Ao/VU3ld8HSTXI/AAAAAAAAEXY/78t8f1Uvxu0/s1600/a.jpg




Kareem vs Duncan is more reasonable
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CFM2t3ayakA/VUYmxVBRTLI/AAAAAAAAEWg/elbe-tE2Zaw/s1600/Sin%2Bt%C3%ADtulo.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yrXAPoWPE50/VZwbNFA2EiI/AAAAAAAAEgw/HduaCYIeBqM/s1600/6.jpg

[BlakFrankWhite]

Its hilarious tho...Kenneth makes these retarded posts...then runs away as his 'friends' get ripped apart

[DMAVS41]

Fair enough, I just wasn't sure 100% if Duncan was a top five player. I preliminary wrote those years down. My point was; Kobe and Duncan's careers are very similar. Which is why to me they are interchangeable.

I could make a case for Kobe's 2013 season, which would make it 12 years for Kobe. And Kobe also got injured so his 2014/2015 seasons were a write off. And the way he was finishing off his 2013 season; it wouldn't be out of the question for Kobe to be a borderline top 5 player in those years either.

And don't make it seem like I'm doging Timmy in this thread. I simply believe Kobe was better than him in 2013. And as far as 07' goes; I simply wasn't sure. So you can give Timmy that year as well. :cheers:

So you've really come off that 2013 "you must be trolling stance"....good for you.

[West-Side]

This.

I think the Spurs still likely win, but the Lakers with Kobe would have had a shot. Kobe would have actually tried hard on defense in the playoffs as well.

Pretending like the Lakers would have had no chance is silly imo, but I know I'm mostly in the minority here.

Kobe had no trust for Dwight and Nash just wasn't healthy.
We wouldn't have had a chance.

This is Duncan, Pop & company. Not the Raptors or GS. They would have adjusted for Kobe. If the man tried to be a one man army; SA would have won in 5. If Kobe became a facilitator and still was able to carry them in the 4th; give Howard/Pau easy bucket and get their confidence up, than it could have went 6/7.

The problem is simple though:


DWIGHT IS A BITCH.

[HOoopCityJones]

I think , if Dwight would've known his role and D'antoni didn't kill Pau's spirit for no apparent reason than because he could, we would've been a really special Team that year. But everything starts with the fornt office , they can try to blame Kobe for stuff all they want but their incompetence has been showing since arguably Shaq left.

You had a Top 3 player in the league at that point and the best you could surround him with was Smush Paker and Kwame Brown? West deserved credit for the Gasol trade more than Mitch, it was definitely a Wolf in the henhouse situation like Mchale when he was in Minne getting KG to Boston.


Even this year, the in fighting between Jeanie and Jim is so apparent that they can't even get on the same page on how to pitch Free Agents.

[West-Side]

So you've really come off that 2013 "you must be trolling stance"....good for you.

I don't see how anyone really thinks Duncan was better though.
Kobe was higher in MVP voting despite his team record.

Which clearly signifies how much more important he was than Duncan, to his team. It wasn't even so much about their season numbers (which Kobe wins anyways); it was about what Kobe did the last 4/5 weeks of the season that truly solidifies his incredible season.

Duncan was great too. He was a top 10 player; if you asked coaches and players that year who was better, I'd be shocked if Duncan receives 20% of those votes.

That's why I thought you guys were trolling me.
Kobe didn't have the best year defensively; but it's funny how people always try to bring that up.

Duncan STAYS in the post, at his age; raising his arm in the air is enough to affect a shot. Kobe is a perimeter defender; at his age, it is nearly impossible for him to waste so much energy defensively when he is asked to carry the load offensively. Do you guys not remember how shitty Nash/Howard/Pau were? Howard & Pau had no chemistry at all. Pau was great in the low post and Howard can only score from the low post; so there were spacing issues. Nash was injured all year. Kobe HAD to carry the load and he still had to pull rabbits out of his ass to win games against shitty teams in the 4th.

That team was a mess. Kobe was the reason they didn't end up losing 50 games that year. He was simply amazing.

I still remember watching that game against TO at Boston Pizza and the way EVERYONE reacted to him. He was the BEST player in the league for those last 4/5 weeks of the season.

I'm sorry Duncan just did not garner the attention that Kobe demanded defensively that year. Not even close actually.

[DMAVS41]

I don't see how anyone really thinks Duncan was better though.
Kobe was higher in MVP voting despite his team record.

Which clearly signifies how much more important he was than Duncan, to his team. It wasn't even so much about their season numbers (which Kobe wins anyways); it was about what Kobe did the last 4/5 weeks of the season that truly solidifies his incredible season.

Duncan was great too. He was a top 10 player; if you asked coaches and players that year who was better, I'd be shocked if Duncan receives 20% of those votes.

That's why I thought you guys were trolling me.
Kobe didn't have the best year defensively; but it's funny how people always try to bring that up.

Duncan STAYS in the post, at his age; raising his arm in the air is enough to affect a shot. Kobe is a perimeter defender; at his age, it is nearly impossible for him to waste so much energy defensively when he is asked to carry the load offensively. Do you guys not remember how shitty Nash/Howard/Pau were? Howard & Pau had no chemistry at all. Pau was great in the low post and Howard can only score from the low post; so there were spacing issues. Nash was injured all year. Kobe HAD to carry the load and he still had to pull rabbits out of his ass to win games against shitty teams in the 4th.

That team was a mess. Kobe was the reason they didn't end up losing 50 games that year. He was simply amazing.

I still remember watching that game against TO at Boston Pizza and the way EVERYONE reacted to him. He was the BEST player in the league for those last 4/5 weeks of the season.

I'm sorry Duncan just did not garner the attention that Kobe demanded defensively that year. Not even close actually.


I'll try this again.

Was 05 Arenas better than 13 Duncan in your opinion?

[RRR3]

Where was he on the MVP ballot that season? You argue from the vantage point of Duncan playing an entire post season while Kobe was clearly out with injury , you honestly think he wouldn't have balled out of his mind that year facing The Spurs of all people? :biggums:

Ya'll continue this revisionist history where Kobe hasn't made Timmy his bitch in the playoffs their entire careers.


Ni99as so shhok they comparing post season stats against a guy who was out. :lol
When did I argue Duncan vs Kobe that year? :biggums:

Stop projecting. I just thought it was hilarious to call him a role player for that season. Hell, I think it's hilarious to call him a role player NOW and he's ancient.

[sportjames23]

Kobe < Duncan

[Carbine]

I don't see how anyone really thinks Duncan was better though.
Kobe was higher in MVP voting despite his team record.

Which clearly signifies how much more important he was than Duncan, to his team. It wasn't even so much about their season numbers (which Kobe wins anyways); it was about what Kobe did the last 4/5 weeks of the season that truly solidifies his incredible season.

Duncan was great too. He was a top 10 player; if you asked coaches and players that year who was better, I'd be shocked if Duncan receives 20% of those votes.

That's why I thought you guys were trolling me.
Kobe didn't have the best year defensively; but it's funny how people always try to bring that up.

Duncan STAYS in the post, at his age; raising his arm in the air is enough to affect a shot. Kobe is a perimeter defender; at his age, it is nearly impossible for him to waste so much energy defensively when he is asked to carry the load offensively. Do you guys not remember how shitty Nash/Howard/Pau were? Howard & Pau had no chemistry at all. Pau was great in the low post and Howard can only score from the low post; so there were spacing issues. Nash was injured all year. Kobe HAD to carry the load and he still had to pull rabbits out of his ass to win games against shitty teams in the 4th.

That team was a mess. Kobe was the reason they didn't end up losing 50 games that year. He was simply amazing.

I still remember watching that game against TO at Boston Pizza and the way EVERYONE reacted to him. He was the BEST player in the league for those last 4/5 weeks of the season.

I'm sorry Duncan just did not garner the attention that Kobe demanded defensively that year. Not even close actually.

Come on. Are we really basing the true value of aplayer based on how media votes for MVP?

Whatever fits the agenda, right?

[Riley Martin]

At the end of the day it all comes back to this. https://youtu.be/Stu1w9QhlNA

The guy has infinite PTSD from that game.

That Josh Howard foul. I forgot about him.

[HOoopCityJones]

When did I argue Duncan vs Kobe that year? :biggums:

Stop projecting. I just thought it was hilarious to call him a role player for that season. Hell, I think it's hilarious to call him a role player NOW and he's ancient.

Projecting? I'm discussing within the terms I was arguing in the first place which was 13 Kobe vs 13 Duncan.

I think it's a viable statement, considering Tony was the goto guy of their offense and he was higher in MvP voting that year. It' funny tho , people love to prop up 13 & 14 for Duncan , but shit on Kobe for 2000 despite being inured in the post season and playing some of the clutchest basketball of his career.

Just funny to me. 16 pts, 17 pts , 18 pts. Literally three numbers difference between them and yet Kobe was definitely a role player in 2000, but not Duncan. Hmm.

[RRR3]

Projecting? I'm discussing within the terms I was arguing in the first place which was 13 Kobe vs 13 Duncan.

I think it's a viable statement, considering Tony was the goto guy of their offense and he was higher in MvP voting that year. It' funny tho , people love to prop up 13 & 14 for Duncan , but shit on Kobe for 2000 despite being inured in the post season and playing some of the clutchest basketball of his career.

Just funny to me. 16 pts, 17 pts , 18 pts. Literally three numbers difference between them and yet Kobe was definitely a role player in 2000, but not Duncan. Hmm.
Kobe put up 23/6/5/2/1 in 2000, how the **** was he a role player? :biggums:

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe put up 23/6/5/2/1 in 2000, how the **** was he a role player? :biggums:

Meant The Finals , but yea. I don't think so either.

[West-Side]

I'll try this again.

Was 05 Arenas better than 13 Duncan in your opinion?

It's kind of hard to argue against Gilbert.
30/6/2 on 45%.

He was also clutch as shit that year.
Uhm yeah, he was. :confusedshrug:

I mean if you want to go there; than I guess Horace Grant was more valuable than Allen Iverson. :rolleyes:

[DMAVS41]

It's kind of hard to argue against Gilbert.
30/6/2 on 45%.

He was also clutch as shit that year.
Uhm yeah, he was. :confusedshrug:

I mean if you want to go there; than I guess Horace Grant was more valuable than Allen Iverson. :rolleyes:

I applaud you for being consistent, but I can't agree with this.

Again...there is a reason why most of the objective measures favor Duncan here. And just speaks to how much value the average fan puts on scoring...and while scoring is very important, that mindset basically says Duncan can never be as good as better scorers...and we simply know that is false.

Side note. Not sure what year you are looking at, but Arenas in 05 put up 26/5/5...

Also, the Grant vs Iverson comparison is absurd. I won't even touch that...

[HOoopCityJones]

Conference disparity matters imo. Arenas did most of his work in the prime of a depleted Eastern Conference.


Lebron's supposed front running last few years has nothing on Arenas during that time.

[DMAVS41]

Conference disparity matters imo. Arenas did most of his work in the prime of a depleted Eastern Conference.


Lebron's supposed front running last few years has nothing on Arenas during that time.

I think Kobe was probably better, but they are of a similar type of player.

And my argument is that I simply don't think people would be reacting this way if it was Gilbert Arenas rather than Kobe.

Again, I'm fine with someone taking Kobe...I actually was very high on Kobe in 13 and said so all year.

I just think people really miss Duncan that year.

To say someone is trolling for taking Duncan is the epitome of being a fanatic for a player.

[West-Side]

I applaud you for being consistent, but I can't agree with this.

Again...there is a reason why most of the objective measures favor Duncan here. And just speaks to how much value the average fan puts on scoring...and while scoring is very important, that mindset basically says Duncan can never be as good as better scorers...and we simply know that is false.

Side note. Not sure what year you are looking at, but Arenas in 05 put up 26/5/5...
Also, the Grant vs Iverson comparison is absurd. I won't even touch that...

There's a break-even point though; between defense and offense. I believe Kobe's offensive prowess easily counters Duncan's defensive prowess in 2013. He did things that to me seemed more important for team success. Again, LA had two seven footers protecting the rim; Kobe played very little defense but it's also ridiculous to ask him to do that at his age.

And I don't just place emphasis on scoring. It's how dominant Kobe was at scoring while defenses collapsed on him. How he allowed Howard to get wide open dunks because 3 defenders were guarding him 30 feet from the bucket. How his post scoring freed up his teammates; how his penetration gave Pau so many open jumpers. You don't remember all that?

It's also about his rebounds and assists. I mean 6/5 isn't too shabby. Is it worse than 10/2 for a big man? It's also the fact that he carried his team on his back in the 4th.

Kobe's season was more memorable to a general fan for a reason; because he was spectacular. Duncan was playing his role that year; he had the privilege of taking nights off and playing 30 minutes because his team was deep; and his coach knew how to build chemistry.

Kobe played with a bitch, a cripple and a Spaniard; and dummy for a coach.

:facepalm

[Mr. Jabbar]

its already settled. kobe with the huge di.ck slap (impresive length and girth) on duncans face to win in the goat list, kobe goat 3-5 duncan goat 7-10

duncan with head trauma after such a di.ck slap. savage

[DMAVS41]

There's a break-even point though; between defense and offense. I believe Kobe's offensive prowess easily counters Duncan's defensive prowess in 2013. He did things that to me seemed more important for team success. Again, LA had two seven footers protecting the rim; Kobe played very little defense but it's also ridiculous to ask him to do that at his age.

And I don't just place emphasis on scoring. It's how dominant Kobe was at scoring while defenses collapsed on him. How he allowed Howard to get wide open dunks because 3 defenders were guarding him 30 feet from the bucket. How his post scoring freed up his teammates; how his penetration gave Pau so many open jumpers. You don't remember all that?

It's also about his rebounds and assists. I mean 6/5 isn't too shabby. Is it worse than 10/2 for a big man? It's also the fact that he carried his team on his back in the 4th.

Kobe's season was more memorable to a general fan for a reason; because he was spectacular. Duncan was playing his role that year; he had the privileged of taking nights off and playing 30 minutes because his team was deep; and his coach knew how to build chemistry.

Kobe played with a bitch, a cripple and a Spaniard; and dummy for a coach.

:facepalm

Does it give you any pause that RAPM has Duncan so much higher than Kobe?

I think just looking at raw stats is where you are getting into trouble. That combined with an emotional attachment to a player seems to be what is at play here....evidenced by you talking about how "memorable" a season it was.

Again, your argument about playing time and chemistry cuts both ways. Kobe isn't the kind of team player Duncan was/is...and you can't use those raw stats while also ignoring Kobe's injury/defense.

If you played Duncan 38 minutes per game he would have been something around a 22/12/3 player and he would have worn down and gotten injured as well.

I don't see the relevance.

Are you saying that if Duncan put up 22/12/3 in 38 minutes and Kobe was the one playing 30 minutes...that you'd rank Duncan higher in 13?

[West-Side]

Does it give you any pause that RAPM has Duncan so much higher than Kobe?

I think just looking at raw stats is where you are getting into trouble. That combined with an emotional attachment to a player seems to be what is at play here.

You mean to tell me, a statistical categories that heavily favors big man, is what I should go by to determine whose season was better? :lol

[DMAVS41]

You mean to tell me, a statistical categories that heavily favors big man, is what I should go by to determine whose season was better? :lol

Not that alone, but it's definitely better than looking at solely points, rebounds, and assists like you are...LOL

Side note....6 of the top 10 players in RAPM (depending on where you look) in 13 were not bigs.

You mean to tell me I should go by raw stats to determine whose season was better?

:facepalm


I like to take everything into account. I like to look at all the evidence combined with what I see.

I factor in stuff like Duncan being able to impact the game in a variety of ways both on and off the ball. I like to look at just what kind of player a guy is and then see if the objective data supports my conclusions. If so...great. If not...I'm going to go back and see if I made an error...etc.

With Kobe, there is a reason that guy wrote the article about Kobe's defense. He didn't even pretend to try. He saved up all his energy to solely play offense...and while his offense was very good, it doesn't trump what Duncan did on the court imo.

Again...go look at everything beyond the raw stats and you'll see them favoring Duncan.

Again, you have a heavy burden here as you are saying there is no argument and people must be trolling.

I usually don't like using subjective awards, but generally guys don't finish 7th in MVP, 1st team all nba, 2nd team all defense....if they just have no argument over a player like Kobe in 13.

Also, I'm trying to only talk games they played. Kobe wearing down and missing the playoffs would be normally factored in here, but that makes this not even a fair fight.

[West-Side]

Not that alone, but it's definitely better than looking at solely points, rebounds, and assists like you are...LOL

You mean to tell me I should go by raw stats to determine whose season was better?

:facepalm

No, but you should consider context.
Like when D'Antoni was asked "Why is Kobe playing 48 minutes a game?" by a reporter. He simply said "Because he has to, for us to win games."

That's exactly what his coach said.
To me that emphasizes value.

And yes man, if Duncan played 38 minutes and averaged 22/13/3 on good efficiency and Kobe played 30 MPG putting up 23 PPG, 4 APG & 3 RPG.

I'd easily give the nod to Timmy. :oldlol:

You're simply using the only thing that Duncan did better that year as your reasoning to make me believe that their seasons were really close.

I just don't buy it, and neither do any other level headed basketball fan.
Kobe was just the better basketball player that year.

His offensive prowess simply overshadowed Duncan's overall play, that year.

[DMAVS41]

No, but you should consider context.
Like when D'Antoni was asked "Why is Kobe playing 48 minutes a game?" by a reporter. He simply said "Because he has to, for us to win games."

That's exactly what his coach said.
To me that emphasizes value.

And yes man, if Duncan played 38 minutes and averaged 22/13/3 on good efficiency and Kobe played 30 MPG putting up 23 PPG, 4 APG & 3 RPG.

I'd easily give the nod to Timmy. :oldlol:

You're simply using the only thing that Duncan did better that year as your reasoning to make me believe that their seasons were really close.

I just don't buy it, and neither do any other level headed basketball fan.
Kobe was just the better basketball player that year.

His offensive prowess simply overshadowed Duncan's overall play, that year.

So you are back to the trolling train of thought.

LOL...your arguments don't make sense. If you can't see the inherent contradiction in propping Kobe's numbers and not bringing up the resulting injury...I give up.

At best...you could argue they shouldn't be compared. Which is fine...then don't say Kobe was clearly better.

This is why I brought up Arenas...nobody would be making these arguments if this was Arenas, but because the jersey had Kobe's name on it...this all gets skewed.

Was Carmelo Anthony also a clearly better player than Duncan?
How about Harden?

And were those guys better than Kobe?

That is why I said this feels like an emotional argument.

If you just remove the names.

From a pure basketball standpoint...

Arguing whether a 27/6/5 no defense playing offensive player is more valuable than a 18/10/3 defensive anchor...that is a legit debate.

And then if you go a step further and look at some of the more advanced metrics that favor the anchor...it should give everyone pause.

Then you can look at circumstances and context....

[West-Side]

So you are back to the trolling train of thought.

LOL...your arguments don't make sense. If you can't see the inherent contradiction in propping Kobe's numbers and not bringing up the resulting injury...I give up.

At best...you could argue they shouldn't be compared. Which is fine...then don't say Kobe was clearly better.

This is why I brought up Arenas...nobody would be making these arguments if this was Arenas, but because the jersey had Kobe's name on it...this all gets skewed.

Was Carmelo Anthony also a clearly better player than Duncan?
How about Harden?

And were those guys better than Kobe?

I'll say it one last time.
Duncan was a top 10 player, maybe the best big man in 2013.
Kobe was a top 5 player, maybe top 3 that year.

To me he was clearly better.
Maybe it bugs you that I use the word "clearly"; but it doesn't discredit Duncan's fantastic year. I just don't see how anyone can actually admit to him having the better year.

Kobe put up better numbers; Kobe was more focal offensively to his team; Kobe was more valuable to his team. Which is why he had to play so many minutes (despite his age) while Pop felt like his team would be fine with Duncan playing limited minutes and taking nights off on occasions.

I don't know why we're still arguing bro.

[DMAVS41]

I'll say it one last time.
Duncan was a top 10 player, maybe the best big man in 2013.
Kobe was a top 5 player, maybe top 3 that year.

To me he was clearly better.
Maybe it bugs you that I use the word "clearly"; but it doesn't discredit Duncan's fantastic year. I just don't see how anyone can actually admit to him having the better year.

Kobe put up better numbers; Kobe was more focal offensively to his team; Kobe was more valuable to his team. Which is why he had to play so many minutes (despite his age) while Pop felt like his team would be fine with Duncan playing limited minutes and taking nights off on occasions.

I don't know why we're still arguing bro.

We are arguing because your arguments don't make sense.

Kobe was top 3? I'm assuming you agree that Lebron and Durant were better.

But on your own criteria...how was Kobe better than Melo? I mean...I think Kobe was better than Melo, but I'm not stuck on these raw numbers like you.

Melo was a 29/7/3 player...Kobe was clearly better?

How about Harden? 26/5/6 on much better scoring efficiency.

What about Westbrook?

I think you get stuck here and will ultimately have to break free from your narrow view.


And of course one could argue Duncan had a better year. LOL...we just did.

On Duncan not getting hurt and actually playing in the playoffs and on a team making the finals alone...that makes his year better. You can't see anyone "admitting" Duncan had a better year?

[West-Side]

We are arguing because your arguments don't make sense.

Kobe was top 3? I'm assuming you agree that Lebron and Durant were better.

But on your own criteria...how was Kobe better than Melo? I mean...I think Kobe was better than Melo, but I'm not stuck on these raw numbers like you.

Melo was a 29/7/3 player...Kobe was clearly better?
How about Harden? 26/5/6 on much better scoring efficiency.


What about Westbrook?

I think you get stuck here and will ultimately have to break free from your narrow view.


And of course one could argue Duncan had a better year. LOL...we just did.

On Duncan not getting hurt and actually playing in the playoffs and on a team making the finals alone...that makes his year better. You can't see anyone "admitting" Duncan had a better year?

I guess you don't know what the word "maybe" means. :oldlol:
Harden shot 44% in 2013; how is that much better "efficiency" than Kobe's 46%? :applause:

[DMAVS41]

I guess you don't know what the word "maybe" means. :oldlol:
Harden shot 44% in 2013; how is that much better "efficiency" than Kobe's 46%? :applause:

You really need to learn that it's 2015 and solely looking at fg% is silly.

TS% is a much better metric.

Like I said...this seems like you are coming from a place of ignorance on many of the best measures for players...and just the emotional place of being a big Kobe fan.

And I don't say that as ad hominem...just as a fact. Someone propping up raw numbers and fg% so hugely is just evident that are ignorant to the better measures out there.

Nothing wrong with using the raw stuff...you should just use everything. And if you are going to just pick one or the other....you are always going to reach poor conclusions in a statistical analysis.

Again, I thought Kobe was fantastic in 13...he just wasn't a clear cut better player than a guy like Duncan.

[West-Side]

You really need to learn that it's 2015 and solely looking at fg% is silly.

TS% is a much better metric.

Like I said...this seems like you are coming from a place of ignorance on many of the best measures for players...and just the emotional place of being a big Kobe fan.

Again, I thought Kobe was fantastic in 13...he just wasn't a clear cut better player than a guy like Duncan.

Kobe - .570 (.324 - .463 - .839)
Harden - .600 (.368 - .438 - .851)

Yes, Harden was "more efficient" because he drew way more fouls and had a slightly better PPS because of it.

But the reason I hate using advanced stats as an "objective" measure is because it doesn't always lead to an accurate conclusion.

For instance, Kobe quite easily demanded more attention from opposite defenses that year. Which led to his teammates having more open shots. As opposed to Harden, who is more of a play-making SG that has the ball in his hands more. His lack of creativity is also problematic, especially in late game situations.

When the two play against smart defenses; Kobe's higher efficiency from the floor is actually far more critical to team success than Harden's ability to draw fouls. When both face smart defenders; Harden has difficulty adjusting. I also hate watching Harden play because on so many possessions his attempt to draw fouls actually creates turnovers. He loves to put his head down and just bulldoze inside in hopes of drawing fouls; similar to LeBron. Kobe very rarely penetrates inside without attempting to actually make a shot.

Kevin Martin has had far greater efficiency than Kobe almost every year; you think that makes him a more "efficient" scorer.

Fact is, Kobe took 3 more shots a game that year and score on a higher on-floor efficiency. Harden's overall efficiency was higher (.60 to .57) because he drew more fouls and was slightly better at the line.

I don't consider that a more efficient "scorer"; I consider that a more efficient player at drawing fouls. Sure it creates opportunities to score; but like I explained above, it doesn't work against every team and under all circumstances.

Kobe's dynamic scoring ability, versatility and creativity in 2013 easily off-sets Harden's advantage at drawing more fouls.

[Carbine]

West Side,

Kobe was a great offensive player in 13. He was better than Duncan as an offensive player, clearly.

Kobe was so bad on defense though that it evened out. His numbers on the surface make him look like he had a far greater impact on the game than he did in reality. 27/6/5 on very good percentages look great to the eye.

But theirs no stat for how many missed/poor close outs he had. How much (in his case how little) effort he gave to get around picks. How many times he gambled and got burned. These things directly effect wins and loses and he was very poor at them overall.

Meanwhile Duncan had a reemergence on that end. He started to look like near prime Duncan on defense again after a few years of being just OK on that end.

He was a true anchor again. There really isn't any value in points/rebounds/assists for that. You either get it or you don't. You either watch the game and get these things and process them or you don't.

13 Duncan is on par with Kobe. You could make the argument he was more inpactful, even if only slightly.

[ninephive]

Where was he on the MVP ballot that season? You argue from the vantage point of Duncan playing an entire post season while Kobe was clearly out with injury , you honestly think he wouldn't have balled out of his mind that year facing The Spurs of all people? :biggums:

Ya'll continue this revisionist history where Kobe hasn't made Timmy his bitch in the playoffs their entire careers.


Ni99as so shhok they comparing post season stats against a guy who was out. :lol
1999 - Spurs win 4-0
Tim Duncan - 29.0/10.8/3.3/2.0/1.0 on 51% shooting
Kobe Bryant - 21.3/6.5/3.5/0.5/1.8 on 45% shooting

2001 - Lakers win 4-0
Kobe Bryant - 33.3/7.0/7.0/0.8/1.5 on 51% shooting
Tim Duncan - 23.0/12.3/4.3/4.3/1.3 on 48% shooting

2002 - Lakers win 4-1
Kobe Bryant - 26.2/5.4/4.8/0.2/1.0 on 46% shooting
Tim Duncan - 29.0/17.2/4.6/3.2/1.0 on 43% shooting

2003 - Spurs win 4-2
Tim Duncan - 28.0/11.8/4.8/1.3/0.3 on 53% shooting
Kobe Bryant - 32.3/5.0/3.7/0.2/1.0 on 43% shooting

2004 - Lakers win 4-2
Kobe Bryant - 26.3/6.3/5.8/0.2/1.7 on 46% shooting
Tim Duncan - 20.7/12.2/3.3/1.7/1.0 on 47% shooting

2008 - Lakers win 4-2
Kobe Bryant - 29.2/5.6/3.8/0.0/1.6 on 53% shooting
Tim Duncan - 22.4/17.4/4.8/2.0/1.2 on 43% shooting


I'll give it to Kobe...he had some of his best series against the Spurs. You just wish he wouldn't have missed the playoffs for 4 years of his career for one reason or another. It's kind of like Jordan in some ways. Amazing career, but there are 5 years where the guy didn't have a winning record for one reason or another.

Basically when you look at the careers of guys that were more volatile (retiring multiple times or injury-prone or shooting so much that guys don't want to play with you), then there are side effects. For Kobe, that is his ego was too big to play alongside Shaq, so he sacrificed team success (missed the playoffs a couple years later) and ultimately the organization (now a bottom-feeder), whereas Duncan made sacrifices sharing the spotlight, sharing touches, and now sharing salary to continue the greatest run of success in professional sports, whereas Kobe and the Lakers have been done for a few years. It's just the tradeoff of having the "81 point game," same as what Wilt sacrificed to go after the record books, which he achieved.

[West-Side]

West Side,

Kobe was a great offensive player in 13. He was better than Duncan as an offensive player, clearly.

Kobe was so bad on defense though that it evened out. His numbers on the surface make him look like he had a far greater impact on the game than he did in reality. 27/6/5 on very good percentages look great to the eye.

But theirs no stat for how many missed/poor close outs he had. How much (in his case how little) effort he gave to get around picks. How many times he gambled and got burned. These things directly effect wins and loses and he was very poor at them overall.

Meanwhile Duncan had a reemergence on that end. He started to look like near prime Duncan on defense again after a few years of being just OK on that end.

He was a true anchor again. There really isn't any value in points/rebounds/assists for that. You either get it or you don't. You either watch the game and get these things and process them or you don't.

13 Duncan is on par with Kobe. You could make the argument he was more inpactful, even if only slightly.

That's why it's almost impossible to compare a big and a perimeter player though. I mean, I understand what both of you are saying. I agree, Duncan was a true anchor defensively. I believe him and Hibbert had two of the highest defensive ratings in the league that year?

There's a lot of intangibles involved here though. It's really hard to compare true impact of their respective roles. How do you convince me that advanced defensive ratings that Duncan had that year eclipse Kobe's offensive prowess? I don't think you can, unless, they play similar positions. But they also didn't clock the same minutes so it makes it even harder.

I'll just accept both your opinions on Duncan, and respect it.
The most important thing; all three of us can agree that both players were truly special that year (especially considering their age).

I do prefer Kobe and you guys prefer Duncan.
We'll agree to disagree, and do it in a civil manner.
Respect each others opinions. :cheers:

[DMAVS41]

Kobe - .570 (.324 - .463 - .839)
Harden - .600 (.368 - .438 - .851)

Yes, Harden was "more efficient" because he drew way more fouls and had a slightly better PPS because of it.

But the reason I hate using advanced stats as an "objective" measure is because it doesn't always lead to an accurate conclusion.

For instance, Kobe quite easily demanded more attention from opposite defenses that year. Which led to his teammates having more open shots. As opposed to Harden, who is more of a play-making SG that has the ball in his hands more. His lack of creativity is also problematic, especially in late game situations.

When the two play against smart defenses; Kobe's higher efficiency from the floor is actually far more critical to team success than Harden's ability to draw fouls. When both face smart defenders; Harden has difficulty adjusting. I also hate watching Harden play because on so many possessions his attempt to draw fouls actually creates turnovers. He loves to put his head down and just bulldoze inside in hopes of drawing fouls; similar to LeBron. Kobe very rarely penetrates inside without attempting to actually make a shot.

Kevin Martin has had far greater efficiency than Kobe almost every year; you think that makes him a more "efficient" scorer.

Fact is, Kobe took 3 more shots a game that year and score on a higher on-floor efficiency. Harden's overall efficiency was higher (.60 to .57) because he drew more fouls and was slightly better at the line.

I don't consider that a more efficient "scorer"; I consider that a more efficient player at drawing fouls. Sure it creates opportunities to score; but like I explained above, it doesn't work against every team and under all circumstances.

Kobe's dynamic scoring ability, versatility and creativity in 2013 easily off-sets Harden's advantage at drawing more fouls.

Well, Harden was more efficient. Sorry if you don't think drawing free throws count. They do.

And actually, I don't discount what you are saying about separating on floor efficiency and free throws...But you once again show your ignorance. They had the exact same on floor efficiency.

50.4% efg...which is a metric that combines 2's and 3's.

Again, with every post you display your ignorance as to the best measures for things.


To the bold....tell me why that is different than me saying:

Duncan's defensive presence, versatility on both ends, and impact on/off ball easily trumps Kobe's scoring advantage.

:confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

That's why it's almost impossible to compare a big and a perimeter player though. I mean, I understand what both of you are saying. I agree, Duncan was a true anchor defensively. I believe him and Hibbert had two of the highest defensive ratings in the league that year?

There's a lot of intangibles involved here though. It's really hard to compare true impact of their respective roles. How do you convince me that advanced defensive ratings that Duncan had that year eclipse Kobe's offensive prowess? I don't think you can, unless, they play similar positions. But they also didn't clock the same minutes so it makes it even harder.

I'll just accept both your opinions on Duncan, and respect it.
The most important thing; all three of us can agree that both players were truly special that year (especially considering their age).

I do prefer Kobe and you guys prefer Duncan.
We'll agree to disagree, and do it in a civil manner.
Respect each others opinions. :cheers:



Sure...but that is why I said at best you get that comparing them is too hard (which I'm not against).

But we aren't the ones claiming that Duncan was clearly and easily better...and accusing you of trolling for taking Kobe.

That is what I and others take issue with...not someone that just takes Kobe and says it could go either way.

Because as I have repeated...I do think it could go either way and it is very hard to compare two players playing such different roles.

I'd go with Duncan...and I've given the reasons why...but my whole burden of proof would change if I was calling you out for "trolling" because you take Kobe.

You see the difference?

[rzp]

duncan > kobe

[Mirror]

duncan > kobe

[West-Side]

Sure...but that is why I said at best you get that comparing them is too hard (which I'm not against).

But we aren't the ones claiming that Duncan was clearly and easily better...and accusing you of trolling for taking Kobe.

That is what I and others take issue with...not someone that just takes Kobe and says it could go either way.

Because as I have repeated...I do think it could go either way and it is very hard to compare two players playing such different roles.

I'd go with Duncan...and I've given the reasons why...but my whole burden of proof would change if I was calling you out for "trolling" because you take Kobe.

You see the difference?

Harden/Kobe had similar on-floor efficiency on paper. You aren't taking into account Kobe's far more polished offensive game though. He demands more attention because of his dynamic scoring prowess. I think that's what makes him a better scorer.

As far as Duncan, it leads back to minutes played. Kobe sustained that offensive prowess over a 38 minute span; Duncan didn't because his coach was much smarter. He knew Duncan could get hurt like Kobe did. We can assume and extrapolate what Duncan's numbers would be like have he played 38 MPG, but both me and you know that's not how it works. And if he has maintained his efficiency over similar MPG; I wouldn't have a problem calling it a tie.

That's the main reason I give Kobe the edge. Because I believe he was more instrumental to his team that year. They needed him on the floor, especially late in the season to make the playoffs. The man played like 5 straight games of over 45 minutes. He was everything for them before his tore his Achilles.

Anyways, it's been a good debate man. :cheers:

[BlakFrankWhite]

'02 Duncan averaged 29/17/5/5

Kobe was lucky to have Shaq bail him out for the 100000th time

[DMAVS41]

Harden/Kobe had similar on-floor efficiency on paper. You aren't taking into account Kobe's far more polished offensive game though. He demands more attention because of his dynamic scoring prowess. I think that's what makes him a better scorer.

As far as Duncan, it leads back to minutes played. Kobe sustained that offensive prowess over a 38 minute span; Duncan didn't because his coach was much smarter. He knew Duncan could get hurt like Kobe did. We can assume and extrapolate what Duncan's numbers would be like have he played 38 MPG, but both me and you know that's not how it works. And if he has maintained his efficiency over similar MPG; I wouldn't have a problem calling it a tie.

That's the main reason I give Kobe the edge. Because I believe he was more instrumental to his team that year. They needed him on the floor, especially late in the season to make the playoffs. The man played like 5 straight games of over 45 minutes. He was everything for them before his tore his Achilles.

Anyways, it's been a good debate man. :cheers:

You seem to have missed the point with Harden. I wasn't actually arguing for Harden over Kobe. I was just showing you where a very simple raw stats analysis gets you.

It forces one to go down other routes to get to why Kobe was/if better than Harden rather than just listing off points, rebounds, and assists...and fg% like it's some trump card.

Back to minutes. You still aren't getting it. Kobe didn't sustain his minutes...the minutes ultimately won. He broke down and missed the playoffs. He proved he couldn't handle the load. How you still don't get this is beyond me.

You don't have to extrapolate. Kobe didn't sustain his play. He broke down and missed the most important games of the year.

If, however, Kobe had been able to sustain it...we would have to factor that in. But he didn't...

Also, Duncan then went on to play 35 minutes per game in a deep playoff run to the finals.

You keep asking why we are still arguing...it's because your entire reasoning for the "edge" now (LOL...it went from trolling to clearly...now it's just "edge") is based on something that is a contradiction.

[huskerdu]

Duncan > Kobe

[Cold soul]

Kobe > Duncan. :cheers:

[Springsteen]

Kobe > Duncan. :cheers:

http://media.giphy.com/media/UB8E1m9ZyUOhq/giphy.gif

[Cold soul]

http://media.giphy.com/media/UB8E1m9ZyUOhq/giphy.gif


It's debatable and extremely close don't act like it's an insult to have Kobe ranked over Duncan.

[TheBigVeto]

It's been settled long time ago.
Duncan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe

/thread

[JellyBean]

Duncan is great and will be a 1st ballot HOF, like Kobe and KG. But to me, Kobe will always out rank Duncan on my list.

[rmt]

Duncan is great and will be a 1st ballot HOF, like Kobe and KG. But to me, Kobe will always out rank Duncan on my list.

So if Duncan is a major contributor to 1-2 more rings and/or gets a FMVP, Kobe will ALWAYS out-rank Duncan? It doesn't matter if he continues to add on to his resume?

[HOoopCityJones]

https://youtu.be/p0HtbJFEzJM

[Rob123]

head to head playoff record - kobe
tnt player of the decade 2000's - kobe
dime player of the decade 2000's - kobe
slam player of the decade 2000's - kobe
Championships - kobe ( duncan lockout* )
olympic gold medals - kobe
olympic win% - kobe
finals - kobe
mvps - duncan
finals mvps - duncan
scoring titles - kobe
1st team all nba's - kobe
1st team all defense's - kobe
allstar games - kobe
allstar mvps - kobe
game winning shots - kobe
50+ win playoff teams beatin - kobe
points - kobe
playoff points - kobe
points per game - kobe
playoff points per game - kobe
assists - kobe
playoff assists - kobe
assists per game - kobe
playoff assists per game - kobe
steals - kobe
playoff steals - kobe
steals per game - kobe
playoff steals per game - kobe
rebounds - duncan
playoff rebounds - duncan
rebounds per game - duncan
playoff rebounds per game - duncan
30 point games - kobe
30 point games playoffs - kobe
40 point games - kobe
40 point games playoffs - kobe
50 point games - kobe
50 point games playoffs - kobe
60 point games - kobe
80 point games - kobe
single game record points - kobe
single game playoff record points - kobe
total season points - kobe
total playoff points - kobe











going on last for the 2021 HOF - kobe
It scares me that people like you exist. At least you're allowed to legally marry now.

[Cold soul]

So if Duncan is a major contributor to 1-2 more rings and/or gets a FMVP, Kobe will ALWAYS out-rank Duncan? It doesn't matter if he continues to add on to his resume?


You see Duncan playing well beyond next season? I highly doubt it age will eventually catch in farther time is undefeated after all. I feel this will be Duncan last season I could be wrong.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Duncan > Kobe. Now and forever.

[rmt]

You see Duncan playing well beyond next season? I highly doubt it age will eventually catch in farther time is undefeated after all. I feel this will be Duncan last season I could be wrong.

Dunno. Kareem played until he was 40 and Parish until 41. Better nutrition, training, medical, etc - maybe. He was all-nba and all-defensive this past year. He'll turn 40 in April but Spurs currently have no center so he'll have to play significant minutes or Pop's gonna run a LOT of small ball this year :oldlol:

[ninephive]

Yep that's right.

1. LBJ
2. KD
3. Melo :wtf:
4. CP3
5. Kobe
6. Parker
7. Duncan
Parker was leading that MVP race until he got injured near the end of the season IIRC.

[Marchesk]

Wilt > Duncan > Lebron > Kobe

[SsKSpurs21]

****ing Ether.
Don't forget this important fact.

Wade, Durant, Jordan, J. Crawford, Bird, and Dirk have ALL said Kobe is top 5 All-Time. I have yet to hear ANYONE say those kind of praises toward Duncan.

Let these fools have their fun; I can just put a tape of 2001 WCF and 2008 series, for me to see who was better.

you do that...ill put on the 2003 series.. :oldlol:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/599/230/kobe-crying1_display_image.jpg

http://i6.tinypic.com/2co5xep.jpg

[TheMarkMadsen]

you do that...ill put on the 2003 series.. :oldlol:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/599/230/kobe-crying1_display_image.jpg

http://i6.tinypic.com/2co5xep.jpg

you mean the series where Kobe played with a torn labrum and still dropped 32 per game :confusedshrug:

congrats, the only time the Spurs could beat Kobe/Shaq after Kobe turned 20 was the one year Kobe was injured :applause:

not a coincidence that the only rings the Spurs have from before 2014 was..

99* (shitty lockout year/Kobe not elite)

03 (Kobe injured for entire series)

05 (Kobe & Shaq break up)

07 (Kobe on shitty team, the bullshit against the Suns during the Spurs series)

the san antonio scavengers

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Huge Laker fan here, but Duncan is at least 10 spots higher than Kobe on the ATG list

[West-Side]

And I'll put on the 2001, 2002, 2004 and 2008. :pimp:

2001 Series Summary

Four Factors
Pace eFG TOV%ORB%FT/FGA ORtg PTS
LAL (4-0) 89.9 .517 11.3 34.7 .169 115.1 103.5
SAS (0-4) 89.9 .406 12.5 20.1 .248 90 81.3


Eleven down, four to go for the unbelievable Los Angeles Lakers.

The Lakers finished off the San Antonio Spurs, the team with the best regular-season in the NBA, 111-82 Sunday for their 19th victory in a row.

Their 11-0 playoff run matches the NBA record set by the 1989 Lakers.

That team was swept by Detroit in the finals after Magic Johnson and Byron Scott were injured. This team looks like a good bet to not only win its second title in a row, but be the first in NBA history to go through the playoffs undefeated.

Los Angeles will have at least six days off to await the outcome of the Milwaukee-Philadelphia series in the East.

The Spurs, 58-24 in the regular season, barely put up a fight in a clincher that was even more decisive than the Lakers' 111-72 blowout in Game 3. That one, at least, was close until the middle of the third quarter. This one was history before halftime.

Derek Fisher, whose return after missing the first 62 games of the season with a stress fracture in his right foot ignited the Lakers' resurgence, scored a career playoff-high 28 points.

He made six of seven 3-pointers, one short of the team playoff record, and nine of 11 shots overall. Fisher finished the series 15-for-20 from 3-point range.

Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant, who went from squabbling superstars to the NBA's most dynamic duo in a matter of weeks, shredded what was left of the Spurs' will in the first half.

O'Neal, showing no hint of trouble from his sore left ankle, scored 23 of his 26 points and grabbed nine of his 10 rebounds in the first half.

Bryant was the maestro once again. He made his first six shots, finished 10-for-19 from the field for 24 points and had 11 assists.

Tim Duncan and Antonio Daniels scored 15 apiece for San Antonio. David Robinson scored 12 on 5-for-16 shooting. Avery Johnson had 14 points and Terry Porter 10.

Los Angeles led by 14 in the first quarter, 26 in the second and was up 64-41 at the break. The Spurs cut it to 17 in the third quarter, but never got any closer.

It was an embarrassing end for a team that won 58 regular-season games and was supposed to be part of one of the great playoff series in NBA history, matching the champions of the last two seasons.

San Antonio became the first team with the best regular-season record to be swept in the playoffs since Portland did it to the Lakers in the 1977 West finals.

Los Angeles never trailed. They shot ahead 11-2 and were up 25-13 after Horace Grant's two free throws with 2:33 left in the first quarter.

The rout was on shortly thereafter in a 11-0 outburst that made it 56-30 on Rick Fox's fast-break basket with 5:12 left in the half. O'Neal had a 9-foot jumper and stuff, Bryant a driving layup and San Antonio coach Gregg Popovich a technical foul during the run as the Staples Center crowd chanted "Sweep! Sweep!"

O'Neal, who twisted his ankle in Game 3, was 10-for-14 from the field for 23 points and grabbed nine rebounds in the first half. In the second quarter, he was 6-for-6 as the Lakers shot 61 percent from the field.

Bryant made six of eight shots, scored 14 and had seven assists by halftime, while Fisher was 6-for-8, 2-for-3 on 3-pointers, for 14 points.

Robinson missed his first six shots and had just two points on 1-for-8 shooting in the first half. Duncan scored 14 in the first half. The Spurs made one of six 3-pointers in the first half.

:oldlol: :pimp:

[kennethgriffin]

you do that...ill put on the 2003 series.. :oldlol:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/599/230/kobe-crying1_display_image.jpg

http://i6.tinypic.com/2co5xep.jpg


it comes as quite a shock when a team gets eliminated for the first time after 4 years

duncan wouldnt know anything about that feeling. he's never even repeated






but as far as 2003 goes... horry was 0 for 18 in threes that series.

missing the potential game winner that would have swung the series

then he signs with that very same sanantonio team during the offseason


fishy wasnt it

[Springsteen]

but as far as 2003 goes... horry was 0 for 18 in threes that series.

missing the potential game winner that would have swung the series

then he signs with that very same sanantonio team during the offseason


fishy wasnt it

This proves it, Big Shot Bob would rather play with Duncan than Kobe.

Glad you recognize Duncan > Kobe. :applause:

[SsKSpurs21]

you can say anything and everything that you want to justify it, but the pure fact that duncan made kobe cry makes him the Alpha.

good day. :cheers:

[Showtime2001]

Kobe > Duncan.

[ninephive]

you mean the series where Kobe played with a torn labrum and still dropped 32 per game :confusedshrug:

congrats, the only time the Spurs could beat Kobe/Shaq after Kobe turned 20 was the one year Kobe was injured :applause:

not a coincidence that the only rings the Spurs have from before 2014 was..

99* (Kobe a 3rd year scrub...meanwhile Duncan carries his team to a championship and hadn't been in the NBA as long)

03 (Kobe got embarrassed on his home floor like no other, I don't blame him for crying honestly)

05 (Shaq leaves so Kobe misses the playoffs)

07 (Kobe doesn't have a quality big man to carry him to a title, Spurs breeze through the league)

14 (Kobe had been on his decline for a couple years and then had the injury...a healthy Kobe helped Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, and MWP barely make the playoffs the year before...meanwhile, Duncan resurges into an All-NBA player and begins winning titles again)

the san antonio scavengers
Fixed. (and I added a '14 excuse for you)

[Bandito]

you can say anything and everything that you want to justify it, but the pure fact that duncan made kobe cry makes him the Alpha.

good day. :cheers:
I agree with this, me being a huge Kobe and Duncan fan even though the numbers agree more with Kobe.

[West-Side]

Kobe & Fish cried because they hate losing (and were pissed they lost the only time to a team they absolutely own); Duncan never cried because he expected to lose to LA.

Have a great day, sir. :cheers:

[SsKSpurs21]

Kobe & Fish cried because they hate losing (and were pissed they lost the only time to a team they absolutely own); Duncan never cried because he expected to lose to LA.

Have a great day, sir. :cheers:

lol, beta

https://champions99.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/word-on-the-street-210907-5.jpg

[West-Side]

Fixed. (and I added a '14 excuse for you)

Oh please bro.
After that absolute annihilation in 2001 (highest victory margin in league history to this day), I would guess you Spur fans would stay quiet.

Your boys had the most wins in the regular season; were champions just two years prior, and were humiliated on national television.

The only time you beat us is when one of the clutchest players in league history gift wrapped you guys the series going like 0 for 20 from 3 and missed a number of game winning shots. :oldlol:

In 2001, we spanked that ass in 5.
In 2008, we raped that ass in 5.
In 2004, we got that quick revenge on your asses.

Y'all even repeat as champs yet?
Nah you're like a prototypical hoe; you continuously blew it. :hammerhead:

[West-Side]

lol, beta

https://champions99.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/word-on-the-street-210907-5.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWw7buKqrK9zsay0AqjIklKB0PPnF9L ZcdBB_KZ1I1Rdu3TjnURw

[kennethgriffin]

you can say anything and everything that you want to justify it, but the pure fact that duncan made kobe cry makes him the Alpha.

good day. :cheers:



Lol duncan lost with homecourt or the #1 seed like 8 times and he never even blinked....


Know why?


Cause he lacks heart. The guy has no care to be great. Which is why hes always been passive and reliant on others. Takes losses with a grain of salt

Thats not alpha.. thats just being a dull slacker


Duncan overrachieved in his career






15ppg not givin a f*ck attitude taking a backseat to 2 other guys

Pay cuts isnt alpha


What is he the 7th option now behind aldridge west manu parker kawhi green?



Give it a rest bro

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe owns The Spurs.

[Phong]

Lol duncan lost with homecourt or the #1 seed like 8 times and he never even blinked.... 2000 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Suns 1-3 (First Round)
2001 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Lakers 0-4 (WCF)
2004 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Lakers 2-4 (WCSF)
2006 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Mavericks 3-4 (WCSF)
2009 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Mavericks 1-4 (First Round)
2011 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Grizzlies 2-4 (First Round)
2012 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Thunder 2-4 (WCF)

I might have missed a few or not.

[rmt]

Pay cuts isnt alpha

What is he the 7th option now behind aldridge west manu parker kawhi green?


As far as I know, there aren't any other 39 year olds in the NBA being paid $10million. You only think that it's a pay cut because Duncan has been so good in his old age. I guess you'd rather he be like Kobe and strap/limit his franchise (not to mention chase off free agents instead of them taking pay cuts to come play with Duncan). Does this look like a 7th option to you?

2015 playoffs
Duncan 17.9 pts / 11.1 rebs / 3.3 asst / 1.3 stl / 1.4 blks 58.9%FG 35.7 minutes

[Legends66NBA7]

2000 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Suns 1-3 (First Round)
2001 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Lakers 0-4 (WCF)
2004 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Lakers 2-4 (WCSF)
2006 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Mavericks 3-4 (WCSF)
2009 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Mavericks 1-4 (First Round)
2011 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Grizzlies 2-4 (First Round)
2012 playoffs: the Spurs have HCA and lose to the Thunder 2-4 (WCF)

I might have missed a few or not.

Duncan didn't play in the playoffs in 2000.

[rmt]

Duncan didn't play in the playoffs in 2000.

He forgot a minor thing like surgery.

[T_L_P]

Lol duncan lost with homecourt or the #1 seed like 8 times and he never even blinked....


Know why?


Cause he lacks heart. The guy has no care to be great. Which is why hes always been passive and reliant on others. Takes losses with a grain of salt

Thats not alpha.. thats just being a dull slacker


Duncan overrachieved in his career






15ppg not givin a f*ck attitude taking a backseat to 2 other guys

Pay cuts isnt alpha


What is he the 7th option now behind aldridge west manu parker kawhi green?



Give it a rest bro


This post makes very little sense.

If he didn't care about basketball, why would he put himself on one of the strictest training routines in the entire NBA?

Right, to stay in the league.

I'm guessing your line of thinking would be, "He's on that routine to stay in the NBA so he can make more money."

Then why is he taking paycuts when he could be making a lot more.

Right, to win, because that's what he cares about. He doesn't care about individual legacy or accolades because it's silly to him.

You want to know what isn't alpha? Claiming all you care about is winning and then taking way more money than you deserve based on your current play, aka holding your team hostage.

[West-Side]

Here's some truth though.
I am a Laker fan but there isn't a player I have more respect for than Tim Duncan and there isn't an organization I have more respect for than San Antonio.

You guys have won with class. You guys didn't stack up the deck. You guys did everything legitimately. I think a lot of it has to do with your prescreening and due diligence. You guys look for specific character in your players. I look through the last 15 years and I see guys like Duncan, Robinson, Parker, Manu, Leonard etc. and the first thing that comes to mind is class. You guys are great winners and great losers. And I'm directly pointing at your leadership. Leadership from both your best player Duncan and your head coach Pop. It's not secret, besides Phil; Pop is the coach I most admire during my time as an NBA fan. He's intelligent, humorous and extremely good at managing talent. If Phil Jackson is good at managing ego's; Pop is great at identifying which players he wants on his team because he looks for a certain type of character.

When I look at LMA; I see a great player but most importantly a good person. He isn't a D. Cousins, or Howard. He has always seemed like a great teammates and team player. That's why SA has been so successful. They look past potential and talent; and evaluate personality and fit more so than maybe any other club.

Once Duncan retires and Tony/Manu go too; I have full faith in this organization maintaining their reputation as an A class organization and will continue with their winning ways. They exemplify how to build a winning formula from ground up. You can learn something about that, LeBron James.

Now, sure I might start arguments and feuds with SA fans; but I'm a Laker fan. We are the two best teams of the 2000's and have a rich rivarly.

But that doesn't mean I don't respect your organization and the fans; and solute you for all of your great accomplishments.

Hopefully, there's no hard feelings.
Certainly none, on my part.

:cheers:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Fixed. (and I added a '14 excuse for you)


you'll have to school me on the 2014 season because I don't remember Dwight & MWP playing for the lakers that year dumbass...


literally the only time the spurs won the title was if Kobe was injured like he was in 03 or if Kobe was playing with no all star sidekick.

oh wait, Kobe didn't have any player on his team make the all star team in 08 and he still shitted on the Spurs :roll: :roll:

Duncan could never and has never beat a healthy, elite Kobe in the playoffs

[TheMarkMadsen]

Spurs fans wouldn't know the feeling of watching your team going for a 4peat and failing

hell.. they wouldn't know the feeling of completing a 2peat.. not much consistency in those scavenger titles

never defended their title like true champions, any great team can win the title but what separates the men from the boys is when you can defend the title all year with that target on your back.. something the spurs just could never

and BTW how many times have they lost with HCA..

no shame in being the team that waits around for the truly elite teams to fall apart or get injured,, not many teams can have that type of scavenger success like the spurs have..

[HylianNightmare]

Duncan

[rmt]

you'll have to school me on the 2014 season because I don't remember Dwight & MWP playing for the lakers that year dumbass...


literally the only time the spurs won the title was if Kobe was injured like he was in 03 or if Kobe was playing with no all star sidekick.

oh wait, Kobe didn't have any player on his team make the all star team in 08 and he still shitted on the Spurs :roll: :roll:

Duncan could never and has never beat a healthy, elite Kobe in the playoffs

Funny how deluded Kobe stans are to believe that Spurs success is reliant on Kobe Bryant. It's as if the Spurs never swept them on their way to their first ring. I guess Spurs domination of Heat in Finals '14 was because Kobe injured his knee too. Or maybe they've won 70% of their games because Kobe has been "injured" for the past 18 years.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Duncan > Kobe.

Now you're getting it.

[Anaximandro1]

Is Kobe a double agent for the Spurs?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MffKsSSodws/VZ2Y1Dff3eI/AAAAAAAAEhY/N5UwuVcdGoU/s1600/7.jpg




if Duncan and Kobe switched teams:

-Duncan would have threaten Russell's record (11 rings)

-The Spurs would have been relocated, and Pop would have ended his NBA career in 1999 ... Kobe would be another TMac, Melo etc.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4aM0P3VwoQc/VZ2Y1GWd4cI/AAAAAAAAEhc/AYBSuSQ3GdY/s1600/8.jpg



Seriously, get a clue ... Duncan doesn't hide behind rings or teammates ... no one has done more with less

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DWYDToFw83o/VZlJ1dPfcQI/AAAAAAAAEf4/yhsToRA-eXE/s1600/4.jpg


Duncan has the tangibles, the intangibles, the whole package tbh

[QUOTE=Popovich]

[B]