Impact: Lebron, KAJ, Bird, MJ

[3ball]

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http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/zJ5TIH.gif


Impact:

MJ:..
Bulls were lottery in 1984 and 6-time dynasty by 1998

KAJ:
Lakers were lottery in 1975 and 5-time dynasty by 1988

Bird:
Celtics were lottery in 1978 and 3-time dynasty by 1986

LBJ:
Cavs' were lottery in 2003 and Conference Finals by 2010
Heat were 1st Round in 2010 and 2-time champions by 2014


A 1 or 2 time champion is not nearly as good a team as a 3, 4, 5, or 6-time champion team.. For the Lakers, they were not capable of winning a championship without FMVP Kareem (similar to FMVP Magic), but were winning rings easily (5) with him.. Not just one or two.. 5 rings..

That's a massive impact.. But at least his Lakers could make the Finals without him, thanks to Magic.. MJ's Bulls couldn't even get past the 2nd round without him.*

* In b4 the invariable "but if this, and if that, and if this and if that, the Bulls win the championship in 1994."

Anyone can use that logic for almost any playoff series - for example - if only MJ had missed the shot shown above from Game 3 in the Forum - Vlade almost had the block.. The Lakers would've been up 2-1 with two more games in the Forum (2-3-2 format) to close it out.. MJ would've failed for the 2nd time in that series (he missed the GW in Game 1) and the Lakers would have all the momentum and expectation at home in the Forum.
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[VIntageNOvel]

one name doesnt belong

http://m.c.lnkd.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/6/005/08b/09b/19e7287.jpg

[Kvnzhangyay]

jw, how do you coin dynasty? The Celtics only won one more championship than the Heat did, but one is a dynasty and other isn't?

I believe you are calling them a dynasty in hindsight, and as time passes. (Just as how books such as Farenheit 451 was just considered a good book when it first came out, and only after yearsss and yearsss did people start to consider it a classic)

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

http://www.mountrantmore.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/end-of-meeting.gif

[leBron Bieber]

no kobe? lolz

[riseagainst]

Heat repeated and went to 4 straight finals. That's a dynasty to me.

[Elosha]

.
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/zJ5TIH.gif


Impact:

MJ:..
Bulls were lottery in 1984 and 6-time dynasty by 1998

KAJ:
Lakers were lottery in 1975 and 5-time dynasty by 1988

Bird:
Celtics were lottery in 1978 and 3-time dynasty by 1986

LBJ:
Cavs' were lottery in 2003 and Conference Finals by 2010
Heat were 1st Round in 2010 and 2-time champions by 2014


A 1 or 2 time champion is not nearly as good a team as a 3, 4, 5, or 6-time champion team.. For the Lakers, they were not capable of winning a championship without FMVP Kareem (similar to FMVP Magic), but were winning rings easily (5) with him.. Not just one or two.. 5 rings..

That's a massive impact.. But at least his Lakers could make the Finals without him, thanks to Magic.. MJ's Bulls couldn't even get past the 2nd round without him.*

* In b4 the invariable "but if this, and if that, and if this and if that, the Bulls win the championship in 1994."

Anyone can use that logic for almost any playoff series - for example - if only MJ had missed the shot shown above from Game 3 in the Forum - Vlade almost had the block.. The Lakers would've been up 2-1 with two more games in the Forum (2-3-2 format) to close it out.. MJ would've failed for the 2nd time in that series (he missed the GW in Game 1) and the Lakers would have all the momentum and expectation at home in the Forum.
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Without getting too much into the premise of your post - dynasty impact - that game tying shot in game 3 of the 1991 Finals is one of the most overlooked big shots of Jordan's career. He had missed the game 1 game-winning attempt by the thinnest margin (the shot looked perfect and bounced in and out). Jordan faced a chance for redemption in game three, a game in which he had earlier hurt his toe and had been struggling from the floor. At that point after Divac had stumbled into a layup to take the lead and drew a sixth foul against Pippen, Jordan had only scored 20 points with a pedestrian shooting percentage.

But he didn't hesitate or second guess himself. He got the ball, drove full court against pressure defense from Scott, rose up and hit the game tying shot over Divac's outstretched fingertips to send it into overtime. Then Jordan scored six points in overtime, including two beautiful driving layups and two free throws to finish with 28 points. He also assisted Horace Grant in overtime. Despite not having Pippen, the Bulls dominated the overtime session and never looked back in the series.

It was a tremendous shot and really launched the Bulls' dynasty. Who knows if they would have won that championship had he missed? There are a number of players in NBA history who would not have hesitated to take that shot like Jordan, with varying degrees of success. Sam Jones, Magic, Bird, and Kobe come to mind for me. Other greats, like Lebron, would have a good chance of hesitating, second guessing themselves, and settling for a pass or poor shot. It's one of the big differences between the two. In any event, thanks for highlighting one of the most important and most forgotten of Jordan's gamewinning/tying shots.

[LikeABosh]

Basketball is a team sport. Compare Celtics, Lakers, Bulls dynasty teams with Lebron's Cleveland squads.

[Pushxx]

Basketball is a team sport. Compare Celtics, Lakers, Bulls dynasty teams with Lebron's Cleveland squads.

Celtics squad before Bird got there was atrocious and sending Red Auerbach packing to New York. They were in complete disarray and the franchise was at its lowest point in its history next to the Chris Wallace dark age.

[SouBeachTalents]

What happened to the Bulls and Cavs the season after they left though?

And I guess we just won't mention that Kareem didn't win shit in LA until Magic showed up

[kamil]

one name doesnt belong

http://m.c.lnkd.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/6/005/08b/09b/19e7287.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/4sk36u.jpg

[SouBeachTalents]

http://i60.tinypic.com/4sk36u.jpg

You sir win the internet :applause:

[riseagainst]

http://i60.tinypic.com/4sk36u.jpg

:lol
:roll:

[PP34Deuce]

I've never seen basketball fans truly look to disregard the impact of an obvious all time great player in Lebron.

I don't believe he will surpass MJ but he has a greater impact on wins-losses than Bird,KAJ and Magic. MJ had that rare ability to score at any point at a high volume on good efficiency.

If you had to build a team with no decent options, Lebron James gets picked over everyone. A Lebron James team is good for 50 plus wins.

[kshutts1]

I don't understand why 3ball makes these threads. I've never seen anyone actually claim that Lebron is better than MJ. Not counting obvious trolls, of course. They are completely different players that play under completely different circumstances and have completely different results.

[ShawkFactory]

You really don't quit, huh?

[3ball]

Without getting too much into the premise of your post - dynasty impact - that game tying shot in game 3 of the 1991 Finals is one of the most overlooked big shots of Jordan's career. He had missed the game 1 game-winning attempt by the thinnest margin (the shot looked perfect and bounced in and out). Jordan faced a chance for redemption in game three, a game in which he had earlier hurt his toe and had been struggling from the floor. At that point after Divac had stumbled into a layup to take the lead and drew a sixth foul against Pippen, Jordan had only scored 20 points with a pedestrian shooting percentage.

But he didn't hesitate or second guess himself. He got the ball, drove full court against pressure defense from Scott, rose up and hit the game tying shot over Divac's outstretched fingertips to send it into overtime. Then Jordan scored six points in overtime, including two beautiful driving layups and two free throws to finish with 28 points. He also assisted Horace Grant in overtime. Despite not having Pippen, the Bulls dominated the overtime session and never looked back in the series.

It was a tremendous shot and really launched the Bulls' dynasty. Who knows if they would have won that championship had he missed? There are a number of players in NBA history who would not have hesitated to take that shot like Jordan, with varying degrees of success. Sam Jones, Magic, Bird, and Kobe come to mind for me. Other greats, like Lebron, would have a good chance of hesitating, second guessing themselves, and settling for a pass or poor shot. It's one of the big differences between the two. In any event, thanks for highlighting one of the most important and most forgotten of Jordan's gamewinning/tying shots.


You know, speaking of shots that would've changed a series if they'd happened:

Toni Kukoc hit a series-changing shot like that (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7SbG-8Bvgk&t=1m36s) when he hit the walk-off GW in Game 3 of the 1994 ECSF.. If he misses, Bulls go down 3-0 and Scottie's epic choke by sitting out that play might now be perceived as the ultimate alpha..

And by getting swept, Pippen wouldn't have the chance to choke again in Game 5 by fouling a 3-point shooter on the last possession.

It's funny because Pippen's epic chokes in the seminal, biggest series of the season proved how incapable he was of being the #1 option team leader.. Heck, he was already playing to capacity alongside MJ - his PPG only went up 0.4 PPG when MJ left.. Ultimately, the fall from 3-peat to 2nd round is the furthest any team has ever fallen without their star and represents MJ's goat impact.

[OldSchoolBBall]

I've never seen basketball fans truly look to disregard the impact of an obvious all time great player in Lebron.

I don't believe he will surpass MJ but he has a greater impact on wins-losses than Bird,KAJ and Magic. MJ had that rare ability to score at any point at a high volume on good efficiency.

If you had to build a team with no decent options, Lebron James gets picked over everyone. A Lebron James team is good for 50 plus wins.

In today's Eastern Conference, yeah. Not in any conference during any era. Peak Jordan also guarantees 50+ wins in the late 00's EC, as do most of the top 10 GOAT's in their primes.