I'm sorry but watching this video, how can anyone say Wilt could hang in today's NBA?

[Westbrook0]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xr3i9jpiTE


This is *THE* ultimate Wilt highlight reel?

Half of his points are him jumping up and reaching out over the smaller defender's head to finger roll it in. That shot would get absolutely destroyed by any modern defender. He doesn't even use his body to protect his shot, and he doesn't lean into his defenders or make contact at all. He simply out-talls and out-athletes them. Can you imagine Wilt trying that against Mutombo, Shaq, Ewing, Davis, Ibaka, DeAndre Jordan, etc? He'd get nowhere.

And yes, before you say it, I know that's Bill Russell in most of those highlights. But what does that tell you about Russell as well if he can't even stop a guy that has no post moves? Russell isn't even jumping on most of these.

This ****ing weak-ass era.

I have Wilt and Russell in my top 10 all-time, but SOLELY because of his dominance over the competition at the time (Wilt) and for being the ultimate winner (Russell).

In today's game, Wilt would average something like 17 and 9. Russell would average even less than that.

[BoutPractice]

Ah, the joys of ignorance...

[Westbrook0]

Ah, the joys of ignorance...

What's it like? Tell me more.

[jlip]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xr3i9jpiTE


This is *THE* ultimate Wilt highlight reel?



New to ISH?

[LAZERUSS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xr3i9jpiTE


This is *THE* ultimate Wilt highlight reel?

Half of his points are him jumping up and reaching out over the smaller defender's head to finger roll it in. That shot would get absolutely destroyed by any modern defender. He doesn't even use his body to protect his shot, and he doesn't lean into his defenders or make contact at all. He simply out-talls and out-athletes them. Can you imagine Wilt trying that against Mutombo, Shaq, Ewing, Davis, Ibaka, DeAndre Jordan, etc? He'd get nowhere.

And yes, before you say it, I know that's Bill Russell in most of those highlights. But what does that tell you about Russell as well if he can't even stop a guy that has no post moves? Russell isn't even jumping on most of these.

This ****ing weak-ass era.

I have Wilt and Russell in my top 10 all-time, but SOLELY because of his dominance over the competition at the time (Wilt) and for being the ultimate winner (Russell).

In today's game, Wilt would average something like 17 and 9. Russell would average even less than that.

Even though we only have 2% of Wilt's NBA footage, and none in which he put up 40+ points (which he did 271 times BTW)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

and if you really want to take the time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94iJr8ZbzM

So, YES, Chamberlain would be dominating in TODAY's NBA.

[Dr. Ice]

If roy hibbert's unathletic and untalented self could be a major cog on a playoff team just because of his height, then wilt could easily be a threat in the nba

[Westbrook0]

Even though we only have 2% of Wilt's NBA footage, and none in which he put up 40+ points (which he did 271 times BTW)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

and if you really want to take the time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94iJr8ZbzM

So, YES, Chamberlain would be dominating in TODAY's NBA.


OK I just watched the first one in its entirety.

Did you notice that not one time, in that entire video, did Wilt use his left hand? Not once. Even when "driving" left. Even when shooting over his right shoulder with his back to the basket.

If you go over your right shoulder with your right hand today, that's an automatic rejection. Especially if you don't body up the defender. And the little guys trying to block him were barely getting their wrist above the rim. In fact, almost no one even DID jump trying to block his shots. Even Russell and Kareem mostly stayed on the ground when Wilt went up. Today he'd be dealing with 7-foot athletes who are not only stronger than him, but who are getting their chins up to the rim, and their hands up near the top of the backboard.

Imagine this:

http://www.i4u.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery_big/images/2014/10/140109368.jpg


versus this:

http://www.rantsports.com/nba/wp-content/slideshow/2013/01/top-10-candidates-for-2013-nba-all-star-dunk-contest/medium/DeAndre-Jordan-Jayne-Kamin-Oncea.jpg

or this:

http://www.nba.com/nets/photos/deke_400_100422.jpg

or this:

http://www.emptythebench.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/javale-mcgee-gets-up1.jpg

or this:

http://sportschump.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Dwight-Howard-block.jpg

[Westbrook0]

In Kevin Durant's last full season, he averaged 32 points on 10/20 shooting.

In Wilt's highest-scoring season, he averaged 50.4 on 20/40 shooting.

Bump Kevin Durant's FGA up to the same amount as Wilt's and (without the butterfly effect) he's averaging 64. In the modern NBA, not in an incredibly weak era.

[Westbrook0]

If roy hibbert's unathletic and untalented self could be a major cog on a playoff team just because of his height, then wilt could easily be a threat in the nba

A threat to score 16-18 a night? Absolutely.

[Psileas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xr3i9jpiTE


This is *THE* ultimate Wilt highlight reel?

Half of his points are him jumping up and reaching out over the smaller defender's head to finger roll it in. That shot would get absolutely destroyed by any modern defender. He doesn't even use his body to protect his shot, and he doesn't lean into his defenders or make contact at all. He simply out-talls and out-athletes them. Can you imagine Wilt trying that against Mutombo, Shaq, Ewing, Davis, Ibaka, DeAndre Jordan, etc? He'd get nowhere.

And yes, before you say it, I know that's Bill Russell in most of those highlights. But what does that tell you about Russell as well if he can't even stop a guy that has no post moves? Russell isn't even jumping on most of these.

This ****ing weak-ass era.

I have Wilt and Russell in my top 10 all-time, but SOLELY because of his dominance over the competition at the time (Wilt) and for being the ultimate winner (Russell).

In today's game, Wilt would average something like 17 and 9. Russell would average even less than that.

Do you realize that DeAndre Jordan, a guy with ZERO offensive arsenal manages to average 11.5 ppg and make a sky-high percentage of his FGA's by just being athletic enough to finish dozens upon dozens of alley-oop dunks over practically ZERO defenders? And that a guy with a somewhat improved offensive arsenal and size, but still nowhere near Wilt's, is a constant 20 ppg scorer on close to 60% FG's (Dwight)? What are all these "awesome" defenders doing instead of stopping these guys from shooting 60% or 70% from the field and being double-double machines?
And how do you get to the 9 rpg crap (and "even less" for Russell)? Lol, a soft-ass big like Dirk easily manages to be getting 10+ rpg in the playoffs, when his minutes get high enough, but Wilt wouldn't...:oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Do you realize that DeAndre Jordan, a guy with ZERO offensive arsenal manages to average 11.5 ppg and make a sky-high percentage of his FGA's by just being athletic enough to finish dozens upon dozens of alley-oop dunks over practically ZERO defenders? And that a guy with a somewhat improved offensive arsenal and size, but still nowhere near Wilt's, is a constant 20 ppg scorer on close to 60% FG's (Dwight)? What are all these "awesome" defenders doing instead of stopping these guys from shooting 60% or 70% from the field and being double-double machines?
And how do you get to the 9 rpg crap (and "even less" for Russell)? Lol, a soft-ass big like Dirk easily manages to be getting 10+ rpg in the playoffs, when his minutes get high enough, but Wilt wouldn't...:oldlol:

:no:

[Carter_17]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xr3i9jpiTE


This is *THE* ultimate Wilt highlight reel?

Half of his points are him jumping up and reaching out over the smaller defender's head to finger roll it in. That shot would get absolutely destroyed by any modern defender. He doesn't even use his body to protect his shot, and he doesn't lean into his defenders or make contact at all. He simply out-talls and out-athletes them. Can you imagine Wilt trying that against Mutombo, Shaq, Ewing, Davis, Ibaka, DeAndre Jordan, etc? He'd get nowhere.

And yes, before you say it, I know that's Bill Russell in most of those highlights. But what does that tell you about Russell as well if he can't even stop a guy that has no post moves? Russell isn't even jumping on most of these.

This ****ing weak-ass era.

I have Wilt and Russell in my top 10 all-time, but SOLELY because of his dominance over the competition at the time (Wilt) and for being the ultimate winner (Russell).

In today's game, Wilt would average something like 17 and 9. Russell would average even less than that.

:applause: :applause: repped

[LAZERUSS]

Do you realize that DeAndre Jordan, a guy with ZERO offensive arsenal manages to average 11.5 ppg and make a sky-high percentage of his FGA's by just being athletic enough to finish dozens upon dozens of alley-oop dunks over practically ZERO defenders? And that a guy with a somewhat improved offensive arsenal and size, but still nowhere near Wilt's, is a constant 20 ppg scorer on close to 60% FG's (Dwight)? What are all these "awesome" defenders doing instead of stopping these guys from shooting 60% or 70% from the field and being double-double machines?
And how do you get to the 9 rpg crap (and "even less" for Russell)? Lol, a soft-ass big like Dirk easily manages to be getting 10+ rpg in the playoffs, when his minutes get high enough, but Wilt wouldn't...:oldlol:

Pretty much nailed it.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[j3lademaster]

Wilt would be a top 5 player in the league. He won't put up nearly the same stats as he did in the 60's but he'd be a legit superstar.

[Dro]

In before CavsFTW and he'll be right by the way..........Is this a troll thread?

[Asukal]

I would average 50 ppg too if I played with unskilled midgets. :oldlol:

[Dr.J4ever]

While today's players are more athletic overall, and defensive concepts are different, the Wilt highlights show a powerful, and supremely athletic big man with more skills than any 7footer in today's NBA, and it's not even close. Fact.

Fyi, we're looking at a revival of the big man and the big man game in Philly. We have the tradition for it.(Wilt and Moses)

GM Sam Hinkie conceded that with the Warriors' success and this being a copy cat league, everyone is going small and over valuing small ball, but he wondered and many wonder what would happen when you introduce a big that really has all the old school skill and athleticism in the paint to defeat the efficiency of teams like the Warriors who get away with playing Draymond Green at center.

We shall see. I think the big man era could come back.

[LAZERUSS]

While today's players are more athletic overall, and defensive concepts are different, the Wilt highlights show a powerful, and supremely athletic big man with more skills than any 7footer in today's NBA, and it's not even close. Fact.

Fyi, we're looking at a revival of the big man and the big man game in Philly. We have the tradition for it.(Wilt and Moses)

GM Sam Hinkie conceded that with the Warriors' success and this being a copy cat league, everyone is going small and over valuing small ball, but he wondered and many wonder what would happen when you introduce a big that really has all the old school skill and athleticism in the paint to defeat the efficiency of teams like the Warriors who get away with playing Draymond Green at center.

We shall see. I think the big man era could come back.

A peak Chamberlain, circa the mid-60's, was 7-1+, and weighed between 290-315 lbs. He was, without question, the strongest man in the league, and likely the strongest man to have ever played the game. Add in a 7-8 wingspan, a 40" vertical, sprinter's speed, and a skill-set that would blow away any post-up center in the current NBA...

and you have a 30-35 ppg, 17-20 rpg, .600+ FG%, 4+ apg, 5+ bpg, dominant big in THIS era.

And before some idiot spews their usual bashing nonsense...

A 6-9 1/2 Cousins, with his 28" vertical...playing 35 mpg...averaged a 24-13 just this past season.

[Mr Feeny]

I would average 50 ppg too if I played with unskilled midgets. :oldlol:

This. Most of this and the previous generations would have absolutely wrecked the league at that time. You're talking about a 22 ppg playoff scorer and an 18 ppg finals scorer. Shaq must be pissing himself laughing at the thought of being a career 18 ppg in finals:oldlol:
Can you imagine how many points Anthony Davis would have averaged back then?

[LAZERUSS]

This. Most of this and the previous generations would have absolutely wrecked the league at that time. You're talking about a 22 ppg playoff scorer and an 18 ppg finals scorer. Shaq must be pissing himself laughing at the thought of being a career 18 ppg in finals:oldlol:
Can you imagine how many points Anthony Davis would have averaged back then?

Wilt is pissing himself from the grave at the thought of ever facing the likes of Smits and McCullough in his prime.

And if a PEAK KAJ was nowhere near as dominant as a peak Chamberlain had been...I'm sorry, but AD would not have been any kind of a threat at all to Chamberlain's records.

[Mr Feeny]

Wilt is pissing himself from the grave at the thought of ever facing the likes of Smits and McCullough in his prime.

And if a PEAK KAJ was nowhere near as dominant as a peak Chamberlain had been...I'm sorry, but AD would not have been any kind of a threat at all to Chamberlain's records.

Too bad peak Wilt could only average 18 ppg in NBA finals and 22 ppg in playoffs back then without facing the likes of Shaq:(
Like I said, most of us on here know that Shaq would devour him. Wilt himself would probably be shaking at the mention of Shaqs name. Remember that Shaq is a guy who would easily put up 37 and 17 on the highest stage.

[Marchesk]

In 3Ball style:

http://i.imgur.com/xSfIp.gif

https://usatsneakhype.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/wilt-chamberlain-was-fast.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/Rivalry/02%20Stilt%20VS%20Alcindor/2-1.gif

http://i.imgur.com/bhrTVRB.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20Crazy%20Shot/z%20Comparison/T-MAC/n%20Stilt/ce576a89.gif

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Vy1F0VB7IwE/UQytNdg07JI/AAAAAAAAEJ0/tmfA9ARfGKI/s800/WiltFootwork1.gif

[Mr Feeny]

Im sorry, but AD would not have been any kind of a threat at all to Chamberlain's records.

Anthony Davis would have annihilated Wilt:oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

In 3Ball style:

http://i.imgur.com/xSfIp.gif

https://usatsneakhype.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/wilt-chamberlain-was-fast.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/Rivalry/02%20Stilt%20VS%20Alcindor/2-1.gif

http://i.imgur.com/bhrTVRB.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20Crazy%20Shot/z%20Comparison/T-MAC/n%20Stilt/ce576a89.gif

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Vy1F0VB7IwE/UQytNdg07JI/AAAAAAAAEJ0/tmfA9ARfGKI/s800/WiltFootwork1.gif


My eyes are hurting me just watching the lack of athleticism there:lol

[Marchesk]

Too bad peak Wilt could only average 18 ppg in NBA finals and 22 ppg in playoffs back then without facing the likes of Shaq:(
Like I said, most of us on here know that Shaq would devour him. Wilt himself would probably be shaking at the mention of Shaqs name. Remember that Shaq is a guy who would easily put up 37 and 17 on the highest stage.

He only played two finals during his peak:

1964: 29.2/27.4/2.4 on 51.7% compared to Russell's 11.2/25.2/5 on 38.6%

1967: 17.7/28.5/6.8 on 56% compared to Thurmond's 14.2/26.7/3.3 on 34.3%

Both of those were against the two other best big defenders of the era.

[Asukal]

My eyes are hurting me just watching the lack of athleticism there:lol

Not to mention the shot selection. Players today wouldn't attempt those shots in front of a shot blocking big man. 60's players were unskilled. :facepalm

[Marchesk]

Anthony Davis would have annihilated Wilt:oldlol:

Davis is 6'10, 220 in shoes. Wilt was 7'1 without shoes and was around 280 in his prime.

[LAZERUSS]

Anthony Davis would have annihilated Wilt:oldlol:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

The scrawny Davis would have just been yet another player that Chamberlain would have hung 40 ppg seasons on (Reed, Bellamy, and Russell being the others.) With his occasional bursts into the 50's (multiple games against Reed, Bellamy, and Russell), 60's (both Russell and mulitple games against Bellamy), and even into the 70's (Bellamy.)

[Mr Feeny]

He only played two finals during his peak:

1964: 29.2/27.4/2.4 on 51.7% compared to Russell's 11.2/25.2/5 on 38.6%

1967: 17.7/28.5/6.8 on 56% compared to Thurmond's 14.2/26.7/3.3 on 34.3%

Both of those were against the two other best big defenders of the era.

Why wasn't he able to lead his team to finals like lebron is today?
And 17 ppg in that second finals is exactly what I'm talking about:oldlol: This is a career loser, we're talking about.

[Pointguard]

OK I just watched the first one in its entirety.

Did you notice that not one time, in that entire video, did Wilt use his left hand? Not once. Even when "driving" left. Even when shooting over his right shoulder with his back to the basket.
Grab any Shaq highlight video its the same thing - except Wilt had more range along with a more varied release. Shaq video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_nSqFdVFLk



If you go over your right shoulder with your right hand today, that's an automatic rejection. Especially if you don't body up the defender. And the little guys trying to block him were barely getting their wrist above the rim. In fact, almost no one even DID jump trying to block his shots. Even Russell and Kareem mostly stayed on the ground when Wilt went up. Today he'd be dealing with 7-foot athletes who are not only stronger than him, but who are getting their chins up to the rim, and their hands up near the top of the backboard. Wilt would still be significantly stronger than DJ and DH for sure as well as any other center around now.

Wilt was high jumping 6'7 so I wouldn't put any of those guys above him. Defense from Nate Thurmond could really cut down Kareem significantly. I think the guys you named, DJ, Howard, JM, were significantly lesser defenders than Bill Russell as well, not to mention Lanier, Reed or Kareem who were also on a level above the modern centers defensively and offensively (Boogie is pretty good offensively but definitely several levels below Kareem).

[Mr Feeny]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

The scrawny Davis would have just been yet another player that Chamberlain would have hung 40 ppg seasons on (Reed, Bellamy, and Russell being the others.) With his occasional bursts into the 50's, 60's, and even into the 70's.


Not I'm the playoffs he wouldn't. We're talking about a loser 18 ppg scorer in finals and 22 ppg in playoffs. Davis is far far far too skilled for him. He would wreck him.

[LAZERUSS]

Not I'm the playoffs he wouldn't. We're talking about a loser 18 ppg scorer in finals and 22 ppg in playoffs. Davis is far far far too skilled for him. He would wreck him.

You mean the Chamberlain who had entire playoff runs of 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg and 37.0 ppg. The Chamberlain who had playoff series of 37.0 ppg, 37.0 ppg, 38.6 ppg, and 38.7 ppg.

The Chamberlain who hung playoff series on Russell of 28.0 ppg, 29.2 ppg, 30.1 ppg, 30.5 ppg, and 33.6 ppg? All while slaughtering him in scoring, rebounding, FG%, and blocked shots?

And had a prime Chamberlain had the luxury of facing stiffs like Smits and McCullough in his Finals, and guess what...Chamberlain would hold Finals scoring records, as well.

[Marchesk]

Why wasn't he able to lead his team to finals like lebron is today?

Imagine Lebron's teams having to go through the 90s Bulls.


And 17 ppg in that second finals is exactly what I'm talking about:oldlol: This is a career loser, we're talking about.

They won that series, brah.

[LAZERUSS]

Imagine Lebron's teams having to go through the 90s Bulls.



They won that series, brah.

And he slaughtered a peak Thurmond in that series, as well.

Just ask a peak Kareem who couldn't hit a shot to save his life against Thurmond, and in fact, was outscored, outshot, and outplayed in their '72 playoff match-up.

For the record, in the '67 Finals, Chamberlain outscored Thurmond in five of the six games; outrbounded Nate in five of the six games; outassisted Nate in five of the six games: and outshot Thurmond from the field in ALL six games. Furthermore, in the game six clinching win...Chamberlain outscored Nate, 24-12, outrebounded Nate, 23-22; and outshot him from the floor by an 8-13 to 4-13 margin. Just CRUSHED him in EVERY facet of the game.

Of course, just the series before that, Chamberlain carpet-bombed Russell (yet again) and led his team to a 4-1 series rout (and were four points away from a sweep in game four) in a series in which Chamberlain outscored Russell, 21.6 ppg to 10.2 ppg; outassisted Russell, 10.0 apg to 6.0 apg; outrebounded Russell, 32.0 rpg to 23.4 rpg; outblocked Russell, 29-8; and outshot Russell from the floor by a .556 to .358 margin.

And the series before that, and when Chamberlain faced the "McCullough" of his era (actually Dierking was considerably better than McCullough)... 28.0 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 11.0 apg, and on a .617 FG%. Oh, and when he wanted to score...games of 41 and 37 points (on 19-30 and 16-24 shooting BTW.)

Incidently, when a "scoring" Chamberlain faced an even better center than Smits or McCullough ever were...Zelmo Beaty...he hung a 38.6 ppg, 23.0 rpg, .559 FG% (in a post-season that shot .420 overall) series...which included a 50 point game, and a game seven of 39 points (on 19-29 shooting), 26 rebounds, and 10 blocked shots.

[TonyMontana]

Deandre Jordan just signed a contract that is getting him 20 million per year. Do you think he is that much more skilled than Wilt? Not even accounting for his advantages in diet, traveling.

I'm not defending Wilt either. I agree. His lack of skill is so ****ing apparant in these videos that everyone except the blindest of his stans will note.

But in basketball if you have natural athletiscm, a ****ing sasquatsch 7 foot frame frame, and no injuries your going to be an elite finisher, rebounder, dunker. Aka an all-star, superstar, maybe even hall of famer if you do it long enough. These guys struggle to hit the rim on free throw shots, but they still get millions. It's not their skill, but their size and athletisicm.

Wilt would just be a much better version of Deandre Jordan....not that it's a bad thing because honestly that would still make him one of the 5,maybe 3 best players in the entire league easily. I don't think he'd impact the game more than a guy who has SKILL on top of that though, like LeBron or healthy Durant. Or recent guys like Dirk, TD, Nash in their primes. But being a better version of Deandre Jordan(who is elite in his own right) would be enough.

[boldarblood]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xr3i9jpiTE


This is *THE* ultimate Wilt highlight reel?

Half of his points are him jumping up and reaching out over the smaller defender's head to finger roll it in. That shot would get absolutely destroyed by any modern defender. He doesn't even use his body to protect his shot, and he doesn't lean into his defenders or make contact at all. He simply out-talls and out-athletes them. Can you imagine Wilt trying that against Mutombo, Shaq, Ewing, Davis, Ibaka, DeAndre Jordan, etc? He'd get nowhere.

And yes, before you say it, I know that's Bill Russell in most of those highlights. But what does that tell you about Russell as well if he can't even stop a guy that has no post moves? Russell isn't even jumping on most of these.

This ****ing weak-ass era.

I have Wilt and Russell in my top 10 all-time, but SOLELY because of his dominance over the competition at the time (Wilt) and for being the ultimate winner (Russell).

In today's game, Wilt would average something like 17 and 9. Russell would average even less than that.

I do not agree with you even a little. We are talking about one of the most legitimately gifted athletes to have ever play NBA. He would be a perennial contender for MVP. He would not average the same kind of stats he did in his prime, different era of basketball.

He would be a 25+ ppg, 15+ rpg, 3.0 bpg easy, and more than likely I am understating his impact. I am guessing your a pretty young guy from your opinions of Wilt and Russell.

[Westbrook0]

A peak Chamberlain, circa the mid-60's, was 7-1+, and weighed between 290-315 lbs. He was, without question, the strongest man in the league, and likely the strongest man to have ever played the game. Add in a 7-8 wingspan, a 40" vertical, sprinter's speed, and a skill-set that would blow away any post-up center in the current NBA...

and you have a 30-35 ppg, 17-20 rpg, .600+ FG%, 4+ apg, 5+ bpg, dominant big in THIS era.

Yes, you're probably right, he WAS the strongest man to ever have played the game AT THAT POINT.

Stronger than prime Shaq? Not a chance in hell.

Also, LMAO @ those stats you tossed out there. Shaq, in his best season, averaged 30 - 13.6rpg - 3.8 apg - 3bpg Shaq was 7-1, 330 pounds and was infinitely more adapted to the modern game and competition than Wilt could have ever dreamed. You seriously think that Wilt Chamberlain, at the same height but weighing a good 50 pounds less, and accustomed to little 60s defenders, would put up better stats than Shaq in every category? You are absolutely delusional.

[Westbrook0]

I do not agree with you even a little. We are talking about one of the most legitimately gifted athletes to have ever play NBA. He would be a perennial contender for MVP. He would not average the same kind of stats he did in his prime, different era of basketball.

He would be a 25+ ppg, 15+ rpg, 3.0 bpg easy, and more than likely I am understating his impact. I am guessing your a pretty young guy from your opinions of Wilt and Russell.

Did you watch Wilt and Russell play in person in the 60s? I didn't, so if that's what you consider a "young guy," then yes I'm a young guy. But I would guess very few people on here saw them play in person, therefore we have to go by what we can see in videos and in history books.

[livingby3's]

Player developed, game developed. Evolution over era. Can't compare really.

[Westbrook0]

Player developed, game developed. Evolution over era. Can't compare really.

Agreed. Wilt was the most dominant player of all time considering the competition. That's why I have him in my Top 10 all time - sheer dominance. But the game changed dramatically - as did the competition - and it's really impossible to say Wilt would be anything but a shell of his former self if he were in the modern game.

[BoutPractice]

Yeah, because ultra strong, quick, athletic 7 footers are completely outmoded in today's NBA.

Nowadays you need to be an 8 footer with 3 arms, minimum, if you want to score more than 10 ppg in the league. It's just the law of evolution... everyone is getting bigger, faster, stronger even as we speak.

...Seriously, surreal, surreal stuff. Haven't you noticed they just gave a huge max contract to DeAndre Jordan of all people? I mean, love the guy, and he's supposed to be my new "franchise player" and all, so I'll no doubt be hyping him up for months to come, but he does have the basketball IQ of a medieval village idiot and the scoring ability of an obese leprechaun. (Still better than Erick Dampier, Brendan Haywood and Samuel Dalembert, I suppose...)

Also, I'm pretty sure most people think prime Kareem would have been one of the best players in the league this past year (most likely the best). How do you explain old man Wilt doing so well against him?

By the way, I heard this guy is now the best basketball player in the world
(saw him at a press conference, he was killing it)

http://www.blackcelebkids.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/cutiecurry.jpg

He was unstoppable this season... that is, until he was stopped by that small Aussie kid with the braces you used to make fun of in high school. But with the help of a 6-7 power forward/center who's kind of ok at lots of different things, he eventually prevailed. That's what I heard.

His runner-up for MVP was a drunk hobo they found on some park bench. (I watched one of his games, he had something like 45 turnovers... I can't understand how they let him play basketball)

[LAZERUSS]

Yes, you're probably right, he WAS the strongest man to ever have played the game AT THAT POINT.

Stronger than prime Shaq? Not a chance in hell.

Also, LMAO @ those stats you tossed out there. Shaq, in his best season, averaged 30 - 13.6rpg - 3.8 apg - 3bpg Shaq was 7-1, 330 pounds and was infinitely more adapted to the modern game and competition than Wilt could have ever dreamed. You seriously think that Wilt Chamberlain, at the same height but weighing a good 50 pounds less, and accustomed to little 60s defenders, would put up better stats than Shaq in every category? You are absolutely delusional.

Strength? You're kidding right?

Let's ask someone like Arnold, who would probably know far more about that topic than you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzIu7o5NH1k

How about an eye-witness account of a Chamberlain in his 50's...

http://wiltfan.tripod.com/chat.htm




This is the transcript from Wilt's online interview from MSNBC

Subject:
From:
Host:
Date: NBA legend Wilt Chamberlain 4-18-97
Chris Donohue (MSNBC)
MSNBC
Mon Nov 24 11:58

Host Chris_MSNBC2 says:
M3 says:
Question for Wilt...watched you bench press about 465 lbs like it was a match stick at the Stanford gym when you were working out there for some reason...how much can you still push up?

Host Wilt_Chamberlain says:
Well, probably I can push up a little more than that right now, because I was bench pressing some great weights. I was a shot-putter and lifting weights was a great joy to me. I liked to show off, I don't do that anymore, but I could probably bench press more than 465 pounds now.




Article from SI in 1964 (and keep in mind that this was nowhere near the strongest Wilt):

http://www.si.com/vault/1964/03/02/608684/meet-the-new-wilt-chamberlain


With Chamberlain now doing what everyone expected of him all along, San Francisco fans are coming back. They like him and his perpetual-motion supporting cast, and they like winning. About the only people not happy are the Warriors' opponents. The St. Louis Hawks' 6-foot-9, 240-pound Zelmo Beaty, for example, found out recently that he can no longer take Chamberlain's great strength for granted. Unable to slow Wilt down with conventional maltreatment, Beaty tried to yank his shorts off. Chamberlain, who can press 400 pounds without breathing hard, makes it a point to control his temper, primarily because he is genuinely afraid he might kill somebody. Beaty's unethical yank, however, was too much. Wilt flicked an arm, and Beaty flew across the floor like a man shot out of a cannon. Referee Mendy Rudolph rushed over to him and said: "For God's sake, stay down, man. Don't even twitch a muscle." Beaty didn't twitch, and he is still active in the NBA.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain


Several years after Wilt stopped playing, he toyed with the idea of a comeback. On the day he visited the Knicks' offices in Madison Square Garden, he talked to Red Holzman, then strode out to the elevator. When it opened, two deliverymen were struggling with a dolly piled high with boxes of office supplies, mostly letterheads and envelopes. The load was so heavy, the elevator had stopped maybe four inches below the floor level and now the deliverymen were huffing and puffing, but they couldn't raise the dolly high enough to get it on the floor level. After maybe two minutes of the deliverymen's huffing and puffing, Wilt, his biceps bulging in a tank top, peered down at them and intoned, "Gentlemen, maybe I can help." They stepped back, he stepped into the elevator, grabbed each end of the rope slung under the dolly and without much exertion, quickly lifted the dolly onto the floor level. Looking up in awe, the deliverymen said, "Thank you." Wilt said, "You're welcome." Wilt stepped into the elevator and rode down to the street level as another witness followed the two deliverymen toward the Knick offices and asked, "How much does all this weigh?" They quickly surveyed the stack of big boxes of office supplies. "Close to 600 pounds," one said.


"One time, when I was with Boston and he was with the Lakers, Happy Hairston and I were about to get in a scrape," said Charlotte Hornets coach Paul Silas, who was a rugged, no-nonsense enforcer. "All of a sudden, I felt an enormous vise around me. I was 6-7, 235, and Wilt had picked me up and turned me around. He said, 'We're not going to have that stuff.' I said, 'Yes sir.'" Goliath's Wonderful Life, Hoop Magazine; May 1999; Chris Ekstrand



"On the trip to Russia with the Harlem Globetrotters, we were in Lenin Stadium, and they assigned a dressing room to the team. The players were getting dressed for one of their games. They were in rather close quarters. Remember, these were young kids-Wilt was 23. The others were his age. They were like kittens. You bump me, i'll bump you back. And before you know it, two of the guys set on Wilt. They started playfully pushing and shoving him. And finally one of his teammates hit Wilt a little too hard. He took these two guys, twisted each of their shirts, and lifted both of them off the ground. Each of these guys weighed over 200 pounds. It looked like he had two little crackers in his hands. I thought he was going to hit their heads together. It was an amazing demonstration of strength". Dr. Stan Lorber, team doctor on the Globetrotters' Russian trip


http://volleyball.org/people/wilt_chamberlain.html


From Pat Powers, 1984 Olympic Volleyball Gold Medalist, 10/14/99 -
A lot has been written about Wilt the last several days here in So Cal. He is receiving more attention now than he has for the last fifteen years--he would have preferred it this way, Wilt was never one for the spotlight off the court.

Here are two stories that I just attached names to yesterday:

One day big Wilty (a notorious card cheater) was playing a game off VB down at Muscle Beach in Santa Monica. To say Wilty was competitve in all sports would be a minor understatement. An argument broke out over the correct score and Wilty was not giving ground to anybody on the court. One of the players, Amon Lucky, made the mistake of stepping under the net to further the point, when Wilty picked him up and threw him over the net!!! Now understand the "Amer" weighs something on the order of 225lbs, so the rumor is Wilty "taped"him on the throw over. needless to say Wilty won the argument, and if memory serves me correct, the game.

Wilty was one of the strongest guys I have ever seen. I once was sitting on the steel fence at Rosecrans taking in the Rosecrans open with Wilt and several cohorts back in the late 70's. A player from Muscle Beach was standing beneath us and told us he was going to walk around so he could come join us up on the rail. Wilty told him there was "no no reason to walk," and reached down and picked him up by one arm and hoisted him over the bar. Mike weighed ~240lbs!!!

I have been around some athletes in my day. But nobody and I mean nobody was stronger than Wilty. He was a man's man!!!

I haven't seen him in recent years, but I am sure everybody who hung with the big guy at Sorrento, Muscle and State Beach will miss him.....


Now, I could google Wilt's bench press, and literally find DOZENS of articles claiming 500+ .

Here is footage of Chamberlain throwing Artis Gilmore around like a rag doll.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1utx7OxiaoU


Why is that important, you ask?


Christian Science Monitor - Jan 25, 1993

After the Celtics lost to the Magic, 113-94, Robert Parish said that in his 17- year career, only longtime Chicago Bulls star Artis Gilmore was physically stronger than O'Neal, but that Shaq was more athletic - "and that is a very scary thought," he said in mock seriousness.

Bob Lanier was 6-11 and weighed about 275...

http://www.nba.com/history/wilt_appreciation.html


Bob Lanier, himself a Hall of Fame center of considerable proportion, recalls "when Wilt Chamberlain lifted me up and moved me like a coffee cup so he could get position.

Finally...just how strong was Shaq?

Keep in mind that this Shaq was only a few years removed from the NBA, and probably weighed around 375 lbs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kshvbcihXKI

THIS Shaq couldn't BUDGE 405 lbs. I'm sorry to tell you, but there was simply no way in hell that Shaq EVER benched 400+.

Furthermore, there was no way that he was EVER stronger than Wilt.

BTW, how about this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU43dTuMuig


I'll address the rest of your pure garbage post later...

[LAZERUSS]

I do not agree with you even a little. We are talking about one of the most legitimately gifted athletes to have ever play NBA. He would be a perennial contender for MVP. He would not average the same kind of stats he did in his prime, different era of basketball.

He would be a 25+ ppg, 15+ rpg, 3.0 bpg easy, and more than likely I am understating his impact. I am guessing your a pretty young guy from your opinions of Wilt and Russell.

I think you are being somewhat conservative on those estimations. Why?

Because a 6-9 1/2 Cousins, with his documented 28" vertical, and only playing 35 mpg...just put up a 24-13 season. Give a prime Chamberlain, at 7-1+, 290 lb, with a 40" vertical (and a college HIGH JUMP champion BTW), with his 7-8 wingspan, and his massive strength (he would throw Cousins into the seats with one arm)...and with this skill-set...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

Well... I suspect 30-35 ppg (depending on his supporting cast and what was needed), .600 FG% (he was shooting .683 and .727 in leagues that shot eFG%'s of .441 and .456...can you imagine what he would do in the current NBA which shot .501 and .496 in the last two seasons?); 17-20 rpg (hell, if the 6-8 Rodman could get 19 rpg...Chamberlain would have bested it); probably 4-5+ apg (Wilt LED the league in assists one year, and finsihed 3rd in another); and 5+ bpg (my god...in his LAST season he blocked 5.4)

Again...a dufus like Cousins at 24-13...then a prime Wilt would have slaughtered those marks.

[senelcoolidge]

I honestly think Wilt would push Anthony Davis like a rag doll in the paint. He's too strong and skilled. He would have a field day on Davis. Not to say Davis wouldn't do too bad either, he's got a good skill set. He would have to do most of his scoring outside of the paint with jumpers because Wilt would be too much inside.

[LAZERUSS]

I honestly think Wilt would push Anthony Davis like a rag doll in the paint. He's too strong and skilled. He would have a field day on Davis. Not to say Davis wouldn't do too bad either, he's got a good skill set. He would have to do most of his scoring outside of the paint with jumpers because Wilt would be too much inside.

I agree with most of this post...but, I would say that a prime Chamberlain, if so inclined, would have probably shut Davis down on those outside shots. Why?

This has been DOCUMENTED by a newspaper article (CavsFTW actually found it), but I am too lazy to look it up...so I will use this link...

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain


"When challenged, Wilt could do almost anything he wanted. In 1961 a new star named Walt Bellamy came into the league. Bellamy was 6-foot-11, and was scoring 30 points a game. First time they played against each other, they met at half court. Bellamy said, 'Hello, Mr. Chamberlain. I'm Walter Bellamy.' Chamberlain reached for Bellamy's hand and said, 'Hello, Walter. You won't get a shot off in the first half.' Wilt then blocked Bellamy's first nine shots. At the start of the second half Wilt said to Bellamy, 'Okay, Walter. Now you can play.'"

For the record, Wilt outscored Bellamy in that game, 51-14.

And, Jerry Lucas was perhaps the best long-range shooter of his era (hard to believe that a 6-8 PF would have such tremendous range). The term "Lucas Layup" was coined in his behalf (he easily had 25+ ft range.)

In the first half of the first game of the '72 Finals, Lucas shot 9-11 from the field. And he was making shots from the 405 freeway in doing so. Somehow a 35 year old Chamberlain then not only shut him down (he would shoot .456 the entire rest of the series againt Wilt), BUT, Chamberlain still managed to averaged 7.4 bpg in that series (as well as 23.2 rpg.)

Again, a prime, athletic Chamberlain, whose only role would be to defend Davis...I can't help but believe that Davis would struggle to get a shot off, much less make very many of them.

[LAZERUSS]

Agreed. Wilt was the most dominant player of all time considering the competition. That's why I have him in my Top 10 all time - sheer dominance. But the game changed dramatically - as did the competition - and it's really impossible to say Wilt would be anything but a shell of his former self if he were in the modern game.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

A prime Chamberlain was taller, longer, faster, more athletic, and yes, STRONGER than Shaq was. Not only that, but he had considerably more range, and a better all-around arsenal.

If Shaq could average 30-14 in the 2000's, then a prime Chamberlain would have EASILY exceeded him in EVERY facet of the game.

[Dragonyeuw]

Wilt's size, strength, and athleticism would transcend any era, including today. If a 6'9,240 Dwight Howard with a limited offensive arsenal and IQ could put up 23 and 14 as recently as 4 years ago, I'm struggling to see how Wilt would struggle today against's crop of bigman.

[LAZERUSS]

Player developed, game developed. Evolution over era. Can't compare really.


DJ, Drummond, and Howard, literally cannot shoot the ball from 5ft.

DJ, Drummond, Howard, and Cousins are all 6-9 1/2, or the same height as Bill Russell.

Then, we can take transitory games to compare eras. For instance, a PEAK Kareem, faced an aging full-time Thurmond in 35 career H2H's, He had a TOTAL of FIVE 30+ point games against Nate, with a HIGH of 34 points. Oh, and in those 35 games, Kareem shot...get this... .447 from the field against Thurmond.

A PEAK Chamberlain going up against a PEAK Thurmond, and covering their first 13 H2H's...had SIX games of 30+, including games of 38 and 45. Wilt had an entire season in which he averaged 21 ppg on a .633 FG% against a PEAK Thurmond. BTW, in their entire career H2H's...Wilt outshot Thurmond by a .540 to .360 margin!

Now, let's jump into the 80's, where a 38-39 year old Kareem, and WAY PAST HIS PRIME, battled a 22-23 year old Hakeem in TEN STRAIGHT games...and averaged...get this... 32 ppg on a staggering .630 FG%. Included were games in which he hung 40, 43, and 46 points (and in only 37 minutes, and on .700 shooting.) BTW, in the same week that Kareem hung that 46 point game on Hakeem, he outscored Ewing, 40-9 (outshooting Patrick by a 15-22 to 3-17 margin.)

Incidently, a 35-36 year old Gilmore faced a 22-23 Hakeem in 10 straight games, as well, and he easily outscored him, and averaged 24 ppg, on ...get this... a .677 FG%!

And think about this...a 40 year old Kareem outscored a 25 year old Hakeem in their four seasonal H2H's, and outshot him by...hang on... a .567 to .403 margin.

Ok, now a PEAK Shaq faced a fading Hakeem in the '99 playoffs, and hung his career high game against Hakeem...of 37 points. Think about that...an old Kareem, who couldn't jump over a match-stick, was hanging multiple 40+ games on a young Hakeem. And yet a PEAK Shaq, facing a past-his-peak Hakeem, could "only" hang a high of 37 points on him.

I could go on, too. Like Moses Malone dominating a young Hakeem. Or, how about this...an old Moses, and way-past-his-prime, outrebounded a prime Hakeem in their seasonal H2H's, in a season in which Hakeem led the league in rpg!

There are MANY more examples of players who careers spanned multiple decades, and then dominating the best players of "the next era."

Wilt, KAJ, Thurmond, and Moses (along with Lanier, Reed, and Gilmore, and others) would easily be among the best players in THIS era. Chamberlain and Kareem would like put up 30+ ppg seasons.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt's size, strength, and athleticism would transcend any era, including today. If a 6'9,240 Dwight Howard with a limited offensive arsenal and IQ could put up 23 and 14 as recently as 4 years ago, I'm struggling to how Wilt would struggle today against's crop of bigman.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

BTW, Howard put up that season in 37.6 mpg, and shot .593 from the field.

And again, a 6-9 1/2 Cousins, with his documented 28" vertical, and playing 34.1 mpg, just had a 24-13 season. Put a much more gifted Chamberlain in THIS era, and let him play 40+ mpg (the reality was, he could have played as much as 48), and he EASILY hangs a 30-17+ statline.

[PistonsFan#21]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

A prime Chamberlain was taller, longer, faster, more athletic, and yes, STRONGER than Shaq was. Not only that, but he had considerably more range, and a better all-around arsenal.

If Shaq could average 30-14 in the 2000's, then a prime Chamberlain would have EASILY exceeded him in EVERY facet of the game.


:no: Prime Wilt isnt stronger than Shaq. Shaq was about 320-330lbs at his peak (which is like 30-40lbs heavier than prime Wilt) and could move anyone in the post if the double team didnt come. Wilt was sometimes forced to take fade away bank shots againt much smaller post defenders.

[GIF REACTION]

:no: Prime Wilt isnt stronger than Shaq. Shaq was about 320-330lbs at his peak (which is like 30-40lbs heavier than prime Wilt) and could move anyone in the post if the double team didnt come. Wilt was sometimes forced to take fade away bank shots againt much smaller post defenders.
Oh, you done did it now my friend.

Get ready for the incoming Wilt Bicep shots.

[LAZERUSS]

Oh, you done did it now my friend.

Get ready for the incoming Wilt Bicep shots.

I'll let PHILA provide those...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4907307&postcount=36

Chamberlain was FAR STRONGER than the fat-ass Shaq.

[FreezingTsmoove]

Your thread makes no ****ing sense

You say Wilt can easily put up 16-18 a night yet he can't hang in today's NBA......

If soft ass Dirk can grab 10 boards with ease wtf do you think Wilt would average if he played in today's era

Now factor that both together you have a 20\10 player like LMA who you were creaming at the thoght of getting for your team



AND NOT ONLY THAT YOUR OTHER ARGUMENT AGAISNT HIM IS HE COULDNT PLAY AGAINST SHAQ.....,WHO DOESNT ****ING PLAY IN THE NBA TODAY!!!!!

Hold this L for a week

[sd3035]

Wilt would be trash in today's game, his "highlights" are solid proof

He was a much weaker and less athletic Deandre Jordan

Imagine taking away DJ's strength and athleticism, you'd be left with a prime Wilt

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt would be trash in today's game, his "highlights" are solid proof

He was a much weaker and less athletic Deandre Jordan

Imagine taking away DJ's strength and athleticism, you'd be left with a prime Wilt

You have to have pity for the blind.

Obviously you didn't WATCH the other footage that was provided did you?

Go ahead, it's ok...admit that you are not only blind, but mentally challenged as well.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Weak era.

Even Westbrook would average 20 RPG in that era

[LAZERUSS]

Weak era.

Even Westbrook might average 20 PPG in that era

Fixed.

[CavaliersFTW]

OP and his followers think they're trolling Laz. But they got trolled. By me.

Dance puppets, dance.

[KobesFinger]

I think Shaq is stronger on the court because of his massive lower body. Off the court its Wilt

[LAZERUSS]

I think Shaq is stronger on the court because of his massive lower body. Off the court its Wilt

Shaq vs.the 6-8 Rodman...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg3BiOw4TWo

oh, and Shaq vs the great Eddy Curry...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=curryed01&p2=onealsh01

[FKAri]

Agreed. Ditto for Shaq

[Nowitness]

2 nd clip is a goaltend :biggums:

[LONGTIME]

:no: Prime Wilt isnt stronger than Shaq. Shaq was about 320-330lbs at his peak (which is like 30-40lbs heavier than prime Wilt) and could move anyone in the post if the double team didnt come. Wilt was sometimes forced to take fade away bank shots againt much smaller post defenders.

:coleman:

http://i44.tinypic.com/347xlw7.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/25pqslt.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ON-mmC6g0IY/T2lLsZ3f7HI/AAAAAAAADRU/Hp7QMyoa5CI/s400/Wilt%2520Lion.jpg

[Westbrook0]

Your thread makes no ****ing sense

You say Wilt can easily put up 16-18 a night yet he can't hang in today's NBA......

If soft ass Dirk can grab 10 boards with ease wtf do you think Wilt would average if he played in today's era

Now factor that both together you have a 20\10 player like LMA who you were creaming at the thoght of getting for your team



AND NOT ONLY THAT YOUR OTHER ARGUMENT AGAISNT HIM IS HE COULDNT PLAY AGAINST SHAQ.....,WHO DOESNT ****ING PLAY IN THE NBA TODAY!!!!!

Hold this L for a week

I have no idea if this post is directed at me or not, but if it is, I'm not a Lakers fan. Also, Dirk averaged 6 boards per game this past year.

Questions for everyone:

1. If Wilt was so dominant, so transcendent, and would put up historic stats even in today's game, why couldn't he win MVP during his "best" years against a bunch of tiny unathletic white boys? I mean, if he would be by far the best player in the game today, and assumingly win MVP, why wouldn't he have won MVP from 1961-65? That's when he was putting up his best numbers, against inferior competition, and there were less than 1/3 of the players that there are in today's NBA. It seems like if he was THAT transcendent and other-worldly, they would really have no choice but to give him the MVP right?

2. If Wilt was so dominant, so transcendent, why was he not winning rings in his prime? I know the Celtics has a better supporting cast than Wilt did, but is Bill Russell and Bob Cousy seriously all it took to overcome a player that you guys say would absolutely transcend TODAY'S game? Was Wilt literally playing with four cats on the court as his teammates? People make fun of LeBron for "only" having two rings, but give Wilt a pass for only having two rings during an incredibly weak era when the game was still developing around him?

3. If Wilt was so dominant, and you all say he would completely dominate players like Anthony Davis, Tyson Chandler, etc. then why was he so easily contained by 6-10, 220-pound Bill Russell? If you go back and look at all of their matchups, Wilt was almost always held to around 30 or less when playing Russell, often less than 20. His monster games all came against teams with no real big man. If Wilt was the strongest player of all time, then surely he would have absolutely no issue bullying around a skinny player that weighed 70-80 pounds less than him. 6-10, 220 pounds. Think about that. Kevin Durant is listed as 6-9, 240. KD circa 2009 was almost exactly the same size as Bill Russell:

http://www.nba.com/thunder/photos/durant_08_100414.jpg

If that's all it took to slow Wilt down by comparison as opposed to normally jumping right over 6'4 white guys, then how can we possibly say he would dominate guys like Chandler, Jordan, Davis, Dwight, Duncan, etc. on a regular basis? It's simple: he wouldn't. Not only because they are much bigger and more athletic than the guys he faced, but infinitely more skilled.

4. If Wilt was so transcendent and would dominate today's game, how come his numbers actually went down significantly when he went into his prime rather than up? It's generally considered that about late 20s to 30ish is an NBA player's prime. Wilt's best numbers were in his first handful of seasons and then it started going down significantly. Why is this? There's only one answer: the game was adapting around him. Coaches were learning how to double team him and deny entry passes, rather than letting him catch the ball every time and go to work on a little 6'4 guy. If the game changed enough in those 5 years or so to start bringing his numbers down in his prime, imagine how much the game has changed in the past 50 years *since*.

5. If Wilt's greatness had nothing to do with the competition of his era, how come other players like Bob Pettit and Walt Bellamy could average 30 and 20? It's because there were more misses, more rebounds, more offensive rebounds, more shots, and less defense. Stats were hugely inflated. Just look at highlights from back then. Today's game is tighter, more structured and more efficient. You don't have rebounds bouncing around like a pinball and players getting 3-4 rebounds in one possession anymore.

6. Players like Shaq in his prime and Durant last year both averaged 30+ on about 20 shots per game. Wilt averaged his 50 on 40 shots per game. In addition Wilt actually shot about 60 PERCENT MORE FREE THROWS than Shaq or KD. Adjusted for numbers (FG and FT), and without the butterfly effect, guys like Shaq and Durant would average 65-70 if they were taking the same number of shots Wilt was back then. Against infinitely superior competition, and infinitely superior schemes and coaching designed to stop superstars much better than when Wilt was the superstar. Cut Wilt's FGA down to what KD and Shaq were attempting, and you essentially have a 25-30ppg scorer, once again that's in the weak era. Give him only 20 shots in today's game, going up against freakishly athletic larger defenders, and much better more modern defensive schemes, and that 25-30 ppg goes down to 20ish at best.

7. And finally, I'm sorry, but if you watch a video such as this one and you can't see how incredibly primitive both he and his competition are, then you will never be able to understand. With the exception of his fadeaway bank shot, he doesn't have any "moves." The size, skill, athleticism, coaching, and every single other aspect of the game today is absolutely galaxies away from how it was in the past. Watch these videos side by side. If you can't see the difference between Wilt back then and players these days, you will never see:

http://goo.gl/d1AH0d

[LAZERUSS]

I have no idea if this post is directed at me or not, but if it is, I'm not a Lakers fan. Also, Dirk averaged 6 boards per game this past year.

Questions for everyone:

1. If Wilt was so dominant, so transcendent, and would put up historic stats even in today's game, why couldn't he win MVP during his "best" years against a bunch of tiny unathletic white boys? I mean, if he would be by far the best player in the game today, and assumingly win MVP, why wouldn't he have won MVP from 1961-65? That's when he was putting up his best numbers, against inferior competition, and there were less than 1/3 of the players that there are in today's NBA. It seems like if he was THAT transcendent and other-worldly, they would really have no choice but to give him the MVP right?

2. If Wilt was so dominant, so transcendent, why was he not winning rings in his prime? I know the Celtics has a better supporting cast than Wilt did, but is Bill Russell and Bob Cousy seriously all it took to overcome a player that you guys say would absolutely transcend TODAY'S game? Was Wilt literally playing with four cats on the court as his teammates? People make fun of LeBron for "only" having two rings, but give Wilt a pass for only having two rings during an incredibly weak era when the game was still developing around him?

3. If Wilt was so dominant, and you all say he would completely dominate players like Anthony Davis, Tyson Chandler, etc. then why was he so easily contained by 6-10, 220-pound Bill Russell? If you go back and look at all of their matchups, Wilt was almost always held to around 30 or less when playing Russell, often less than 20. His monster games all came against teams with no real big man. If Wilt was the strongest player of all time, then surely he would have absolutely no issue bullying around a skinny player that weighed 70-80 pounds less than him. 6-10, 220 pounds. Think about that. Kevin Durant is listed as 6-9, 240. KD circa 2009 was almost exactly the same size as Bill Russell:

http://www.nba.com/thunder/photos/durant_08_100414.jpg

If that's all it took to slow Wilt down by comparison as opposed to normally jumping right over 6'4 white guys, then how can we possibly say he would dominate guys like Chandler, Jordan, Davis, Dwight, Duncan, etc. on a regular basis? It's simple: he wouldn't. Not only because they are much bigger and more athletic than the guys he faced, but infinitely more skilled.

4. If Wilt was so transcendent and would dominate today's game, how come his numbers actually went down significantly when he went into his prime rather than up? It's generally considered that about late 20s to 30ish is an NBA player's prime. Wilt's best numbers were in his first handful of seasons and then it started going down significantly. Why is this? There's only one answer: the game was adapting around him. Coaches were learning how to double team him and deny entry passes, rather than letting him catch the ball every time and go to work on a little 6'4 guy. If the game changed enough in those 5 years or so to start bringing his numbers down in his prime, imagine how much the game has changed in the past 50 years *since*.

5. If Wilt's greatness had nothing to do with the competition of his era, how come other players like Bot Pettit and Walt Bellamy could average 30 and 20? It's because there were more misses, more rebounds, more offensive rebounds, more shots, and less defense. Stats were hugely inflated. Just look at highlights from back then. Today's game is tighter, more structured and more efficient. You don't have rebounds bouncing around like a pinball and players getting 3-4 rebounds in one possession anymore.

6. Players like Shaq in his prime and Durant last year both averaged 30+ on about 20 shots per game. Wilt averaged his 50 on 40 shots per game. Adjusted for numbers, and without the butterfly effect, guys like Shaq and Durant would average 60-64 if they were taking the same number of shots Wilt was back then. Against infinitely superior competition, and infinitely superior schemes and coaching designed to stop superstars much better than when Wilt was the superstar. Cut Wilt's FGA down to what KD and Shaq were attempting, and you essentially have a 25-30ppg scorer, once again that's in the weak era. Give him only 20 shots in today's game, going up against freakishly athletic larger defenders, and much better more modern defensive schemes, and that 25-30 ppg goes down to 20ish at best.

7. And finally, I'm sorry, but if you watch a video such as this one and you can't see how incredibly primitive both he and his competition are, then you will never be able to understand. With the exception of his fadeaway bank shot, he doesn't have any "moves." The size, skill, athleticism, coaching, and every single other aspect of the game today is absolutely galaxies away from how it was in the past. Watch these videos side by side. If you can't see the difference between Wilt back then and players these days, you will never see:

http://goo.gl/d1AH0d

One-by One...


1. If Wilt was so dominant, so transcendent, and would put up historic stats even in today's game, why couldn't he win MVP during his "best" years against a bunch of tiny unathletic white boys? I mean, if he would be by far the best player in the game today, and assumingly win MVP, why wouldn't he have won MVP from 1961-65? That's when he was putting up his best numbers, against inferior competition, and there were less than 1/3 of the players that there are in today's NBA. It seems like if he was THAT transcendent and other-worldly, they would really have no choice but to give him the MVP right?

Chamberlain won landslide MVP over Russell in his rookie season. In his '62 season, and carrying his team to essentially the same record as in '60, and with Russell putting up nearly identical stats as he did in '60, and with his team having essentially the same exact record...EXCEPT Chamberlain put up FAR greater numbers in carrying an older and worse roster...and somehow Russell won the MVP? Makes absolutely ZERO sense.

BTW, and as was almost always the case...Chamberlain beat out Russell in the First Team All-NBA balloting (in their 10 years in the league together, Wilt crushed Russell with a 7-2 margin in First-Team All-NBA selections.

Oh, and Wilt was also ROBBED in '64 (albeit, he STILL outvoted Russell.)

Of course, when Chamberlain finally had decent supporting casts, he won three straight landslide MVPs. I guess the voters had ZERO choice, too, since his TEAMs had the best record in the league each year.

Next...

[Marchesk]

1. If Wilt was so dominant, so transcendent, and would put up historic stats even in today's game, why couldn't he win MVP during his "best" years against a bunch of tiny unathletic white boys? I mean, if he would be by far the best player in the game today, and assumingly win MVP, why wouldn't he have won MVP from 1961-65? That's when he was putting up his best numbers, against inferior competition, and there were less than 1/3 of the players that there are in today's NBA. It seems like if he was THAT transcendent and other-worldly, they would really have no choice but to give him the MVP right?

Bill Russell and Oscar Robertson say hi. My question is why does Steve Nash have the same number of MVPs as Shaq, Kobe and Wade combined?

http://d1warraxuf7xh1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/stevenash2006.jpg

[Marchesk]

2. If Wilt was so dominant, so transcendent, why was he not winning rings in his prime? I know the Celtics has a better supporting cast than Wilt did, but is Bill Russell and Bob Cousy seriously all it took to overcome a player that you guys say would absolutely transcend TODAY'S game? Was Wilt literally playing with four cats on the court as his teammates? People make fun of LeBron for "only" having two rings, but give Wilt a pass for only having two rings during an incredibly weak era when the game was still developing around him?

Probably the other Hall of Famers on the Celtics had something to do with it. Sam Jones hitting a game 7 winning shot. Havilek stealing the ball in another game 7.

[LAZERUSS]

2. If Wilt was so dominant, so transcendent, why was he not winning rings in his prime? I know the Celtics has a better supporting cast than Wilt did, but is Bill Russell and Bob Cousy seriously all it took to overcome a player that you guys say would absolutely transcend TODAY'S game? Was Wilt literally playing with four cats on the court as his teammates? People make fun of LeBron for "only" having two rings, but give Wilt a pass for only having two rings during an incredibly weak era when the game was still developing around him?

Chamberlain was drafted by a LAST PLACE team. Unlike Russell who was drafted by a 39-33 playoff team that, oh BTW, also drafted HOFer Tommy Heinsohn in the very next season. Oh, and they added HOFer Sam Jones the very next year. By 1962-63, Russell had EIGHT other HOF teammates, and his EIGHTH best player had averaged 20 ppg just the season before.

Meanwhile, Chamberlain's already POS rosters got older and worse.

"Weak era." Give me the seasons in which Lebron faced NINE HOFers?

BTW, Chamberlain, with putrid rosters that played even WORSE in the post-season, took two LAST-PLACE roster that he inherited, to game seven losses by 2, and 1 point against HOF-laden Celtic teams that went 60-20 and 62-18. In series in which Wilt just DESTROYED Russell.

BTW, when Wilt FINALLY had an EQUAL supporting cast to Russell's, that was healthy...a 4-1 demolition of the 61-20 Celtics in a series in which Chamberlain CRUSHED Russell in EVERY facet of the game.

Next...

[SHAQisGOAT]

And again...


Did you notice in those highlight videos that not one time, in that entire video, did Wilt use his left hand? Not once. Even when "driving" left. Even when shooting over his right shoulder with his back to the basket.

If you go over your right shoulder with your right hand today, that's an automatic rejection. Especially if you don't body up the defender. And the little guys trying to block him were barely getting their wrist above the rim. In fact, almost no one even DID jump trying to block his shots. Even Russell and Kareem mostly stayed on the ground when Wilt went up. Today he'd be dealing with 7-foot athletes who are not only stronger than him, but who are getting their chins up to the rim, and their hands up near the top of the backboard.

Imagine this:

http://www.i4u.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery_big/images/2014/10/140109368.jpg


versus this:


or this:

http://www.nba.com/nets/photos/deke_400_100422.jpg


...

or this:

http://i60.tinypic.com/28vxbx5.jpg

or this:

http://i61.tinypic.com/6ypi4w.png

or this:

http://i50.tinypic.com/qxkutk.jpg


or this:

http://i61.tinypic.com/ckljc.jpg

or this:

http://i60.tinypic.com/14kfltd.jpg


:facepalm


And this dude talking about listed weights and such... Anyone really believes KD was playing at 240 lbs? :rolleyes: :lol Gimme a ****ing break.
Dude must also believe that Dwight's really 6'11, and taller than Russell for that matter...

[Marchesk]

4. If Wilt was so transcendent and would dominate today's game, how come his numbers actually went down significantly when he went into his prime rather than up? It's generally considered that about late 20s to 30ish is an NBA player's prime. Wilt's best numbers were in his first handful of seasons and then it started going down significantly. Why is this? There's only one answer: the game was adapting around him. Coaches were learning how to double team him and deny entry passes, rather than letting him catch the ball every time and go to work on a little 6'4 guy. If the game changed enough in those 5 years or so to start bringing his numbers down in his prime, imagine how much the game has changed in the past 50 years *since*.

Wilt's best season was probably the 67 one where he averaged 24/24/7.8 on 68% with his team winning 68 games and demolishing the 8 time defending celtics in 5 games.

[Rocketswin2013]

Westbrook, I usually like your posts but you're wrong here, bro. You have to do the research and just look at things in a realistic manner.

[Westbrook0]

Westbrook, I usually like your posts but you're wrong here, bro. You have to do the research and just look at things in a realistic manner.

I did do the research and I am looking at everything in a realistic manner. Wilt would not be dominant in today's game. He would be a very good center.

[LAZERUSS]

3. If Wilt was so dominant, and you all say he would completely dominate players like Anthony Davis, Tyson Chandler, etc. then why was he so easily contained by 6-10, 220-pound Bill Russell? If you go back and look at all of their matchups, Wilt was almost always held to around 30 or less when playing Russell, often less than 20. His monster games all came against teams with no real big man. If Wilt was the strongest player of all time, then surely he would have absolutely no issue bullying around a skinny player that weighed 70-80 pounds less than him. 6-10, 220 pounds. Think about that. Kevin Durant is listed as 6-9, 240. KD circa 2009 was almost exactly the same size as Bill Russell:

Russell was the SAME exact height as Cousins, Howard, DJ, and Drummond. Not only that, but he was a WORLD-RANKED HIGH JUMPER.

And "contained by Russell?" :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wilt and Russell met in 143 career H2H's...and here were averages in those 143 games...

Russell: 14.5 ppg, 23.7 rpg, on a .382 FG%.
Wilt: 28.7 ppg, 28.7 rpg, and on a .497 FG%.

Chamberlain held a 133-10 margin in scoring in those 143 games, and a 92-43-8 margin in rebounding. And without taking the time to look it up, probably at LEAST a 100-43 margin in FG% efficiency.

How about these numbers by a PRIME Chamberlain against Russell?


59-60 Regular season ... 11 H2H games:

Russell: 19.8 ppg, 23.7 rpg, .393 eFG%
Wilt: 39.1 ppg, 29.7 rpg, .465 eFG%, and 1.3 apg.


59-60 EDF's... 6 H2H's:

Russell: 20.7 ppg, 27.0 rpg, .446 eFG%, and 2.8 apg.
Wilt: 30.5 ppg, 27.5 rpg, .500 eFG%, and 2.0 apg.


60-61... 13 regular season H2H's:

Russell: 18.8 ppg, 25.4 ppg, .398 eFG%, and 3.6 apg.
Wilt: 36.3 ppg, 30.9 rpg, .493 eFG%, and 1.8 apg.


61-62...10 regular season H2H's:

Russell: 18.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, .383 eFG%, and 4.4 apg.
Wilt: 39.7 ppg, 28.8 rpg, .468 eFG%, and 2.1 apg.

61-62... 7 games of EDF's:

Russell: 22.0 ppg, 25.9 rpg, .399 eFG%, and 4.6 apg.
Wilt: 33.6 ppg, 26.9 rpg, .468 eFG%, and 2.9 apg.


62-63...9 regular season H2H's:

Russell: 15.3 ppg, 27.8 rpg, .366 eFG% (3 known games)
Wilt: 38.1 ppg, 28.9 rpg, .497 eFG% (6 known games.)


63-64...8 Regular season H2H's:

Russell: 14.4 ppg, 25.4 rpg, 5.4 apg (5 known), .367 FG% (6 known)
Wilt: 29.1 ppg, 26.9 rpg, 3.7 apg (7 known), .530 FG%

63-64 Finals... 5 H2H's:

Russell: 11.2 ppg, 25.2 rpg, 6.3 apg, .386 FG%
Wilt: 29.2 ppg, 27.6 rpg, 2.4 apg, .517 FG%


64-65...11 Regular season H2H's:

Russell: 12.6 ppg, 22.2 rpg, 4.6 apg, .281 FG% (10 known)
Wilt: 25.4 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 4.2 apg, .473 FG%

64-65...7 EDF's H2H's:

Russell: 15.6 ppg, 25.1 rpg, 6.7 apg, .447 FG%
Wilt: 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, 3.3 apg, .555 FG%


65-66... 9 Regular season H2H's:

Russell: 9.4 ppg, 21.2 rpg, 4.9 apg, .301 FG%
Wilt: 28.3 ppg, 30.7 rpg, 4.2 apg, .510 FG%

65-66...5 EDF's H2H's:

Russell: 14.0 ppg, 26.3 rpg, 6.3 apg (3 known), .423 FG% (2 known)
Wilt: 28.0 ppg, 30.2 rpg, 3.2 apg, .509 FG%

66-67...9 regular season H2H's...

Russell: 12.2 ppg, 21.1 rpg, 4.1 apg, .425 FG% (8 known)
Wilt: 20.3 ppg, 26.7 rpg, 6.3 apg, .549 FG%

66-67 5 EDF's H2H's:

Russell: 10.2 ppg, 23.4 rpg, 6.0 apg, .358 FG%
Wilt: 21.6 ppg, 32.0 rpg, 10.0 apg, .556 FG%




Wilt had 24 games of 40+ points against Russell, including FIVE of 50+, with a high of 62 points.

Russell had ZERO 40+ point games against Wilt.

BTW, Russell had a TOTAL of THREE 30+ point games against Wilt, and guess what, he was outscored with 40+ point games in all three.

Next...

[Westbrook0]

Wilt had 24 games of 40+ points against Russell, including FIVE of 50+, with a high of 62 points.

Russell had ZERO 40+ point games against Wilt.

BTW, Russell had a TOTAL of THREE 30+ point games against Wilt, and guess what, he was outscored with 40+ point games in all three.

Next...

See!? You said it yourself that Wilt and Russell played head-to-head 143 times.

During his first 6 season in the league, Wilt AVERAGED 42 POINTS PER GAME.

Against Russell, he only scored 40 points 24 times! In 143 head-to-head matchups!

17 percent of his matchups against Russell did he end up reaching what he AVERAGED during his prime years. 83 percent of the time, Russell held him below that average.

That is absolutely, positively considered "containing" Wilt.

And I never said anything about Russell outscoring Wilt did I? I said he contained him on defense. Russell was never a stellar offensive player, but he was a stellar defender.

[LAZERUSS]

4. If Wilt was so transcendent and would dominate today's game, how come his numbers actually went down significantly when he went into his prime rather than up? It's generally considered that about late 20s to 30ish is an NBA player's prime. Wilt's best numbers were in his first handful of seasons and then it started going down significantly. Why is this? There's only one answer: the game was adapting around him. Coaches were learning how to double team him and deny entry passes, rather than letting him catch the ball every time and go to work on a little 6'4 guy. If the game changed enough in those 5 years or so to start bringing his numbers down in his prime, imagine how much the game has changed in the past 50 years *since*.

Chamberlain's numbers went "down" because of coaching and surrounding talent. Here is a quick one for you...the NBA widened the lane before the start of the 64-65 season...in an attempt aimed strictly at WILT. Guess what...in his '64 season, Wilt averaged 36.9 ppg. In the first half of that 64-65 season, and before being traded to a better (albeit losing) team...he was avreraging 38.9 ppg...or a huge increase.

Another example. In Wilt's 68-69 season, his coach VBK, asked Wilt to sacrifice his offense for the benefit of Baylor and West (and boy did that fail in the Finals BTW.) He averaged 20.5 ppg that season.

The very next year, his new coach (VBK was basically immediately fired), asked Wilt to be the focal point of the offense. And in the first nine games that year, Wilt was LEADING the league in scoring at 32.2 ppg (and on a .579 FG% BTW.) He had put up games of 33, 35, 37, 38, 42, and 43, as well as a 25 point game on Kareem (Alcindor.) And in that ninth game, he had scored 33 points, on 13-14 shooting, and in only 28 minutes, when he shredded his knee.

BTW, Kareem averaged 28.8 ppg on a .518 FG% that same season.

Next...

[LAZERUSS]

See!? You said it yourself that Wilt and Russell played head-to-head 143 times.

During his first 6 season in the league, Wilt AVERAGED 42 POINTS PER GAME.

Against Russell, he only scored 40 points 24 times! In 143 head-to-head matchups!

17 percent of his matchups against Russell did he end up reaching what he AVERAGED during his prime years. 83 percent of the time, Russell held him below that average.

That is absolutely, positively considered "containing" Wilt.

And I never said anything about Russell outscoring Wilt did I? I said he contained him on defense. Russell was never a stellar offensive player, but he was a stellar defender.

A "scoring" Wilt had entire SEASONS, covering between 8 to 13 games in each...of 38.1 ppg, 39.7 ppg, and 39.7 ppg. If that is somehow "containing him"...well your idea of "containment" is much different than mine.

[LAZERUSS]

5. If Wilt's greatness had nothing to do with the competition of his era, how come other players like Bob Pettit and Walt Bellamy could average 30 and 20? It's because there were more misses, more rebounds, more offensive rebounds, more shots, and less defense. Stats were hugely inflated. Just look at highlights from back then. Today's game is tighter, more structured and more efficient. You don't have rebounds bouncing around like a pinball and players getting 3-4 rebounds in one possession anymore.

No one is claiming that Wilt would put up 50-26 seasons in today's NBA.

BUT, Bellamy and Pettit were two all-time great offensive players (hell, Bellamy at the end of his career in the early 70's was still hanging 19-12 .545 seasons), BUT, both were LIGHT YEARS behind Chamberlain in their PEAK seasons.

Chamberlain essentially averaged 20 ppg than both of them in their PEAK scoring seasons.

BTW, reduce '62 Wilt's FGAs and FTAs down to 2015 levels..and then adjust his FG% to 2015 levels...and guess what...Wilt would have averaged 42.5 ppg on a .589 FG% THIS year.

BTW, Chamberlain not only won 11 RPG titles (and had he been healthy in '70 it would have been 12), he was winning them convincingly...even into his LAST season.

NOBODY outrebounded Wilt.

Oh, and some more food for thought...and just a small sample...


Aside from Chamberlain, there have been 36 30-30 games in NBA history, and Russell is the leader of that group, with 7 (Bellamy and Thurmond are next with 3 each.)

How about Wilt? 132.


40-30 (or 30-40) games: Other than Wilt, the NBA has had 9 40-30 games, with Baylor being the only player to have 2.

Chamberlain? 73


50-30 games: Pettit and Baylor each with 1

Wilt? 32


60-20 games: Aside from Wilt, there have been four (Baylor with 3 and Shaq with 1)

Chamberlain? 28


60-30 games: Baylor with 1

Wilt? 8


40-40 games: There have been 8 in the history of the NBA, and Chamberlain had all of them.


50-40 games: Obviously, Wilt would be the only player to have ever have accomplsihed that feat, which he did 5 times.


70-30 games: Chamberlain has the only 2, 78-43 and 73-36 (against Bellamy.)


Why ONLY Wilt?

And finally...Kareem.

Kareem played four years IN the Wilt era and never approached his records. In fact, a prime Chamberlain was FAR more dominant against the same centers that a prime Kareem would face just a few years later.

[Westbrook0]

BTW, reduce '62 Wilt's FGAs and FTAs down to 2015 levels..and then adjust his FG% to 2015 levels...and guess what...Wilt would have averaged 42.5 ppg on a .589 FG% THIS year.



This doesn't make any sense. Can you explain how you got here?

Wilt averaged 40 FGA in his 1962 season.

The highest FGA this past season was Westbrook with 22.

You can't cut a guy's field goal attempts in half and say his ppg would only go from 50 to 42.5...

[Westbrook0]

By the way, Wilt's career average in scoring per 36 minutes is 23.6.

A large handful of guys all have better scoring per 36 than that, and these guys all did it against vastly superior competition. NO ONE can argue that today's competition isn't light years ahead of the 60s.

[LAZERUSS]

6. Players like Shaq in his prime and Durant last year both averaged 30+ on about 20 shots per game. Wilt averaged his 50 on 40 shots per game. In addition Wilt actually shot about 60 PERCENT MORE FREE THROWS than Shaq or KD. Adjusted for numbers (FG and FT), and without the butterfly effect, guys like Shaq and Durant would average 65-70 if they were taking the same number of shots Wilt was back then. Against infinitely superior competition, and infinitely superior schemes and coaching designed to stop superstars much better than when Wilt was the superstar. Cut Wilt's FGA down to what KD and Shaq were attempting, and you essentially have a 25-30ppg scorer, once again that's in the weak era. Give him only 20 shots in today's game, going up against freakishly athletic larger defenders, and much better more modern defensive schemes, and that 25-30 ppg goes down to 20ish at best.

I already explained this...but one more time...and we can just use simple math instead of actually taking the time to break them down stat-by-stat...

In 2015, the NBA averaged 101 ppg. In Wilt's '62 season, in which he averaged 50.4 ppg, the NBA averaged 118.8 ppg. Guess what...divide 101.0 by 118.8 and you get .850. Multiply 50.4 by .850 and you get... 42.5 ppg.

Also, keep in mind that in Wilt's era, the leagues shot anywhere between .403 to .460, and overall, about an average of .440. Chamberlain shot .540 in that span. Now, move Wilt to 2015, and a league that shot an eFG% of .496...and that .540 suddenly becomes....608.

Oh, and don't forget to mention the fact that Wilt was playing 46 mpg his entire career. Don't you think that his FG% effciencies, and his TRB%'s would have been considerably higher had he "only" played 40 mpg?

[Westbrook0]

In 2015, the NBA averaged 101 ppg. In Wilt's '62 season, in which he averaged 50.4 ppg, the NBA averaged 118.8 ppg. Guess what...divide 101.0 by 118.8 and you get .850. Multiply 50.4 by .850 and you get... 42.5 ppg.

Also, keep in mind that in Wilt's era, the leagues shot anywhere between .403 to .460, and overall, about an average of .440. Chamberlain shot .540 in that span. Now, move Wilt to 2015, and a league that shot an eFG% of .496...and that .540 suddenly becomes....608.




:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

That's not how it works! Oh God that's classic!

Edit: OK sorry had to compose myself!

1. Wilt in today's game would not shoot 40 FGA. There's more to figuring out a player's scoring than just adjusting for NBA pace.

2. Wilt's FG percentage in today's game would go DOWN, not UP! Now he's got athletic, tall centers blocking his weak finger rolls. He's got double teams, he's got traps, he's got advanced defensive schemes. He's got quick little guards that would snatch up his primitive, clunky dribbling in the post. Take prime Wilt and stick him into today's game and his FG% and attempts both go down.

[j3lademaster]

Also, keep in mind that in Wilt's era, the leagues shot anywhere between .403 to .460, and overall, about an average of .440. Chamberlain shot .540 in that span. Now, move Wilt to 2015, and a league that shot an eFG% of .496...and that .540 suddenly becomes....608.wtf kind of Stan logic is this? We're going to assume Wilt is a 61% shooter on high volume attempts because he played in a league where players couldn't shoot?

[LAZERUSS]

This doesn't make any sense. Can you explain how you got here?

Wilt averaged 40 FGA in his 1962 season.

The highest FGA this past season was Westbrook with 22.

You can't cut a guy's field goal attempts in half and say his ppg would only go from 50 to 42.5...


Ok, here we go...

In the '62 season, in a league that averaged 108 FGA per game, per team, Chamberlain averaged 39.5 FGAs per game. In that same season, the NBA averaged 37 FTAs per game. Chamberlain, himself, averaged 17 FTAs per game.

Ok, in the 2015 season, the NBA averaged 83.5 FGAs per game, per team, and 22.9 FTAs per game, per team.

So, reduce Wilt's FGAs down to 2015 levels, and boom, we get a .773. Multiply that by 39.5 and you get...30.5 FGA per game. Multiply that 30.5 x Wilt's .506 eFG% in '62 (more on that later)...and you get... 15.2 MADE FGs per game...or 30.4 ppg just on his reduced FGAs.

Then, reduce Wilt's FTAs in '62, down to '15 levels...22.9 / 37.0..or .618...and you get 10.5 FTAs per game by Wilt in 2015. Multiply that by his actual .613 FT%, and you get 6.5 MADE FTS per game.

Add 6.5 to 30.4 and you get 36.9 ppg.

BUT, if you are going to reduce Wilt's FGAs and FTAs down to 2015 levels, you simply HAVE to adjust his eFG% as well. Why? Because if you don't, the '62 NBA would have averaged 87 ppg in 2015...or 14 ppg less!

So, now we take Wilt's .506, achieved in a a league that shot an eFG% of .426, and adjust it to a 2015 NBA that shot an eFG% of .496....496/426 =1.16...and multiply that by .506...and you get... a .589 eFG%. Now, a Chamberlain shooting .589 on his 30.5 FGAs would averaged an 18 FGM per game...or 36.0 ppg just on his FGAs.

Add Wilt's 6.5 FTM per game, to his 36 ppg on his FGAs, and you get...

wallah... 42.5 ppg.

Simple, right?

[LAZERUSS]

wtf kind of Stan logic is this? We're going to assume Wilt is a 61% shooter on high volume attempts because he played in a league where players couldn't shoot?

Explain this...



The NBA FG%'s rose slightly, year-after-year, from the early 60's, at .410 in '60, thru the 77-78 season, at .469. Then it took a quantum leap to .485 in 78-79, and would continue a climb to a high of .492 in the mid-80's, before a slow decline (albeit, much of it because of increased 3 pt shooting.)

For those that disparage the players of the 60's because of their relatively poor shooting, at least in the early 60's, here are some interesting numbers. Granted, I'm sure you can find a few players that didn't have a significant increase, like Russell or Hal Greer, but overall, the climb was pretty consistent.

Oscar? He shot .473 in his rookie season (60-61), and .478 in his second season, 61-62, which was his famous triple-double season. He had a remarkable season in 62-63, in which he averaged 28.3 ppg on a career high mark of .518. Plant that season in the mid-80's, and adjust his FG% accordingly, and he would have shot around .570. His second highest season from the floor? .511 in 69-70. Here again, for much of the decade of the 60's, and aside from that 62-63 season, his FG%'s climbed.

How about Darrell Imhoff? He is probably more known for being on the other end of a 100 point game, but he is a good player to start with. In his first three seasons in the league, from his rookie year of 60-61 thru 62-63, he shot .394, ..386, and an awful .314 (albeit in only 45 games.) In his 4th season he finally climbed over the .400 mark with a .414 season. From that season on his numbers rose dramatically. By the end of the 69-70 season, he was shooting .540.

Bailey Howell? In his rookie season, in 59-60, he averaged 20.4 ppg on .456 shooting. In 60-61 he was at 22.1 ppg on .469. In 61-62 he was at 19.9 ppg on .464 shooting. Then...boom...the rest of his career, until his next to last season, a considerable rise in FG%. He shot a career high .516 in 62-63 (along with 21.7 ppg), and in 66-67 he was at .512 on 20.0 ppg.

John Havlicek? Hondo is a great example. He played eight seasons in the 60's, and eight in the 70's. Guess what...he shot better in EVERY season of the decade of the 70's, than he did in his best season in the 60's. His high season, in the 60's, was actually his rookie year (in 62-63) when he shot .445. Interesting, though, in his next seasons, from 63-64 thru '65-66, he shot progressively WORSE, going .417, .401, and then an unbelievable .399 in '66. His LOW season in the 70's was his last year, when he shot .449. His high season was .464 in 69-70.

Elgin Baylor? In his rookie season, in 58-59, he shot .408. In his next three seasons, he shot .424, .430. and .428. Amazingly in his 64-65 season, he shot a career low .401, and he duplicated that mark in 65-66, but, he was coming off major knee surgery. His high season came in 69-70, when he shot .486.

Jerry West? Watch the footage of the 61-62 NBA All-Star game, which came in his second season. His jump shot would look similar his entire career. And yet, in that season, he shot .445 from the floor. Which was considerably better than his rookie season, in 60-61, when he shot .419. In his third season, 62-63, he would shoot .464. He would start a considerable rise after that, culminated by a .514 in 67-68, and .497 in 69-70.

Matt Guokas? In his rookie season, in 66-67, he shot a career low .389. Two years later he shot .426. From that point on...a steady increase. By his 72-73 season he was shooting a career high .570. His minutes declined after that, and so did his efficiency, but he his last season was in 75-76.

Walt Bellamy? Bellamy actually shot a league-leading .519 in his rookie season, in 61-62. He was around that mark for much of the 60's, but his high came in 67-68, when he shot .541. His career high came in 69-70, when he shot .547. And even late in his career, in 71-72, he was shooting .545 while averaging 18.6 ppg.

Nate Thurmond? He was never a good shooter, but his WORST seasons came in the decade of the 60's, and particularly in his rookie year, in which he shot .395. He had FIVE seasons in the decade of the 70's in which he outshot his best season in the 60's, with a high of .446 in 72-73.

Willis Reed? In his first two seasons, 64-65 and 65-66, he shot career lows of .432 and .434. After that...a steady rise. In 68-69 he shot a career high .521, and followed that up with a .507 in his MVP season in 69-70. He did decline after that, but mostly because of injuries. In 71-72, he reinjured himself, and only played in 11 games, and shot .438.

Rick Barry? In his rookie season, he shot .439. In his second season, and in a year in which he led the NBA in scoring at 35.6 ppg, he shot .451 from the field. He played in the ABA after that for a few seasons, before returning to the NBA in the 72-73 season. He had FIVE seasons in the decade of the 70's, in which he outshot his best season in the 60's, with a high of .464, which came in his title-winning '74-75 season, and in a year in which he averaged 30.6 ppg.

Luke Jackson? Not a great example because he his career was cut short by injuries. However, in his first two seasons he shot .414 and .401. In the next three seasons, he shot .438, .433, and .437. He was battling injuries after that, and his mpg came down dramatically, so his last three seasons were really not indicative of his real career.

Johnny Green? Green was actually one of the best shooters of his era. However, in his rookie season, in 59-60, he could only shoot .447 (basically playing part-time.) In his second season, he only shot .430, while averaging 10.2 ppg. In his third season, in 61-62, he averaged 15.9 ppg on .436 shooting. From the next season, when he averaged 18.1 ppg on .462 shooting, thru the end of his career, in 72-73, his FG%'s took a meteroic rise. He actually LED the NBA in FG% in two straight seasons (69-70 and 70-71) with marks of .559 and .587, and by his last season, in 72-73, he was shooting a career high .599.

Of course, how about Chamberlain? In his rookie season, he shot a career low of .461. It would be the only time in his career in which he would shoot less than .506. His FG%'s basically shot up after that, and by his 65-66 season, he was averaging 33.5 ppg on .540 shooting, and in a league that shot .433 overall. In his next season, he shot a mind-boggling .683 (and while still scoring .24.1 ppg) in a league that shot .441. And, in his LAST season, he set the all-time mark of .727.


Ok, how come? I have heard the argument that the league was in it's infancy, which was clearly not true. The NBA was around as far back as 46-47. In fact, basketball was invented in the 1890's, and was being played in colleges in the late 1890's. By the 1920's, therte were professional teams touring the country. And, the reality was, the game had changed little from the 1890's. Same size court, basket, rim, and number of players, with basically the same rules...with the exception of the 24 second clock in the mid 50's (and later, the 3 pt shot in the late 70's.)

But what did change? Well, better athletes, most noticably the black players, who arrived in the late 50's. Their advent elevated the game, and FG%'s in the 50's started a slow rise.

BUT, the major reasons why FG%'s in the early 60's were the BALL, which was not uniform until the late 60's (and video footage showed an NBA playing with even bald balls.) I have said it before, but I played in city leagues, in which a rack of balls were never the same. Some were lighter, some heavier, and some were even lopsided.

The VENUES. Games were often played in COLD, and even BREEZY arenas (as well as smoke-filled.) Most all of us have played outdoors in the cold and winds, and we can all attest to the fact that the elements dramatically affect shooting. And, some courts had "dead spots", and some even had nails protruding from the floor.

TRAVEL and ACCOMODATIONS. Traveling and hotel accomdations were rudimentary in the early 60's.

MPG and INJURIES. Players were expected to log more minutes, and to play through injuries. That, on top of much worse medical technology at the time, meant that players were not only playing tired, but were also playing while hobbled with injuries.

And finally...the BRUTAL SCHEDULE. I have mentioned it before, but in Wilt's 61-62 season, (and in a season in which he missed a TOTAL of EIGHT MINUTES)...Chamberlain played in MANY B2B games. Not only that, but he played in SIX separate streaks of THREE-IN-A-ROWS, as well as THREE more separate streaks of FOUR-IN-A-ROW, and even yet another separate streak of FIVE-GAMES-IN-FIVE-NIGHTS.

Think about this...In the strike-shortened 2011 the NBA shot .448 in FG% overall. THIS year, and in a season with a compacted schedule, and involving many B2B's. And a .487 eFG% overall. In 2013.....453 and .496. In 2014....454 and .501.



Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...


As far as the defense that was being played, much like EVERY decade, there were poor to exceptional defensive players, as well as poor to exceptional team defenses.

Russell anchored those great Celtic defenses, to be sure, but Satch Sanders and KC Jones were widely regarded as among the best defensive players at their positions. And I have read quotes where West quite possibly had numerous quad doubles (based on steals.) Gus Johnson, Havlicek, DeBusschere, Reed, and many others were considered exceptional defenders.

And for the idiots on this forum who have claimed that Wilt didn't face the defenses that the modern centers have...I could, and have, posted a TON of RESEARCH which just blows that nonsense away. A case could be made that no other player has not only been more defended, but more brutally defended, than Chamberlain. Only Shaq would have an argument in this regard.

Of course, just as in today, there were players, and teams, that were poor defensively. In any case, defense WAS being played. Here again, "the Bridge" Kareem is one of the greatest examples. True, he was seldom played straight up, but players like Wilt and Thurmond did battle him more individually than most other teams. And, as I have often pointed out, Kareem shot WAY WORSE against those two, than any other centers he would face in his 20 year career.

Still, a PRIME Kareem, who had seasons of .577 and .574 in his second and third years in the league, also had seasons in the mid-70's of .539, .529, and even .513, and all of them occurred after Chamberlain retired. AND, he had a decade high of .579 in '77, too. So, there were seasons when SOMEONE was playing defense against him.

And Kareem is a great example of just how dominant a PRIME Chamberlain really was. Kareem played FOUR years in the "Wilt era", albeit the last four of Chamberlain's career. And he faced quite a few of the SAME centers that a PRIME Chamberlain just annihilated in his career. And yet Kareem never came close to the overwhelming dominance that a PRIME Chamberlain leveled against those SAME centers.

Not only that, and as I have pointed out before, but in Wilt's 68-69 season, and in a season in which he averaged 14 FGAs per game, he dropped two 60+ point games. Kareem would come into the league the very next season, and face noth of those same centers, and he never came close to those numbers. In fact, Kareem would play 20 seasons in his career, and his high game was "only" 55 points.

Still, a 38-39 year old Kareem was hanging THREE 40+ games, in his first ten H2H meetings iwith Hakeem, as well as just murdering Ewing with a 40 point game in the same time frame. Furthermore, he was not "shot-jacking" when he did so. In fact, in his 46 point bombardment of Hakeem, he went 21-30 from the floor, and only played 37 minutes. He not only averaged 32 ppg against Hakeem in his first ten H2H's, he did so on a mind-boggling .630 FG%. In fact, in his 23 career H2H's against Hakeem, he shot .610 from the field.

Here was a Kareem, who could barely get off of the floor to get 6 rpg, scoring 32 ppg in a ten straight game span, covering two seasons, and on an astonomical .630 FG%...and yet, he would be out of the league in three more years (and was awful in his last season.)

BUT a PRIME Kareem had three straight seasons of .539, .529, and even .513, sandwiched between seasons of .574 and .579 shooting in the decade of the 70's.

Of course, as was the case with many of the greats whose play spanned the 70's and 80's, Kareem's FG%'s in the decade of the 80's, even at ages well into his 30's, was MILES ahead of what he shot in his PRIME, and in the decade of the 70's. From the '79-80 season on, Kareem had EIGHT straight seasons of .564+ shooting, with a high of .604 in '80, and even a .599 season, at age 37, in '85. True, he was paired with Magic, and true, he also cut back his overall shooting, but his shooting pretty much mirrored what the ENTIRE NBA was doing back in the 80's...which was shooting well over what had been shot in the decade of the 70's.

There were 30-52 teams that were shooting .504 in the decade of the 80's. The '85 Lakers shot an eye-popping .548 from the field. And there were entire LEAGUES that shot as high as .492.

The best example? Artis Gilmore. Gilmore played in the ABA in his first few years, and joined the NBA in his 76-77 season, at age 27. In that season he averaged 18.6 ppg on .522 shooting. His high FG% season in the 70's was .575. In the decade of the 80's, and all from age 30 on, he had SIX seasons of .618 or higher. In his '81 season he averaged 17.9 ppg on .670 shooting, and a year later 18.5 ppg on .652 shooting (once again, comparing his '77 season of 18.6 ppg on .522 shooting.) My god, at age 35, he averaged 19.1 ppg on .623 shooting.

How about Adrian Dantley? He came into the league in the 76-77 season. In his three seasons in the decade of the 70's, his highest FG% season was .520. In the 80's, he exploded with FOUR 30+ ppg seasons, and all on shooting of .559 or higher, with a high of .580.

Now, granted these are just a couple of examples, much like those that I cited in my examples of the 60's. BUT, you don't have to look at isolated examples in either case, to see what was OBVIOUS. FG%'s, overall, rose significantly from the early 60's to the later 60's. By the end of the decade of the 60's, the overall shooting had risen from .410 to .446. It took a decent jump in '70, going to .460, before coming back down slightly to .455 and .456 in Wilt's last two seasons ('72 and '73.) By 77-78 the league was shooting .469. BUT, the league had expanded to 23 teams at that point, as well.

Most all of the rise in the 70's was on a slow graph. THEN, in the 78-79 season (and once again, BEFORE Magic and Bird arrived), it suddenly shot up to .485. Why?

And, the ENTIRE decade of the 80's was off the charts. Interesting too, was that the CENTERS of that decade also benefitted. Many of them were shooting .550+, and some even hit .600.

HOWEVER, the opposite took place by the arrival of the 90's. While overall shooting was affected because of the plethora of the 3 pt shot, it was also interesting that the CENTERS efficiency declined.

It was no coincidence that Hakeem's career HIGH in FG% came in his ROOKIE season (.538 in '85.) That just happened to be the year in which the NBA had it's highest season EVER.

And while some here have pointed out that many players see their FG%'s rise throughout their careers, then how do explain players like Hakeem, Ewing, and Robinson, having their career bests, and by miles, in their first 1-3 seasons? Ewing's FG% exploded in the 80's, but went on a steady decline into the 90's. And while Robinson didn't get in on the "defenseless 80's" he did join the league in 89-90. In his rookie season he shot .531, and followed that up with seasons of .552 and .551. After that, a dramatic drop.

Why? Why would CENTERS, OVERALL, see their FG%'s rise DRAMATICALLY in the 80's. And why would CENTERS, OVERALL, see their FG%'s drop in the 90's?


The bottom line...those that argue that the players of the early 60's were not nearly as skilled, based on FG%, need to realize that there was much more at play than just the pure shooting numbers (and the RIDICULOUS assertion of "poor shot selection.") Conditions were MUCH worse in the 60's, particularly in the early 60's. And players like Russell, Thurmond, and Chamberlain clearly illustrated the fact that DEFENSE was being played in that decade. Just ask Kareem about who the toughest defenders he faced were.

[LAZERUSS]

A PEAK Kareem going up against a fading full-time Thurmond in 35 career H2H's. FIVE games of 30+, with a HIGH of 34. Oh, and he shot .447 from the field against him in those 35 games.

An 38-39 year old Kareem and in TEN STRAIGHT H2H's with a 22-23 year old Hakeem in '85 and '86... 32.0 ppg on a .630 FG%, which included SIX games of 30+ (again...in ten games), with highs of 40, 43, and 46 points.

Now, just how would a 23 year old Kareem, at his PEAK, have done against a 39 year old Hakeem?

[Asukal]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

That's not how it works! Oh God that's classic!

Edit: OK sorry had to compose myself!

1. Wilt in today's game would not shoot 40 FGA. There's more to figuring out a player's scoring than just adjusting for NBA pace.

2. Wilt's FG percentage in today's game would go DOWN, not UP! Now he's got athletic, tall centers blocking his weak finger rolls. He's got double teams, he's got traps, he's got advanced defensive schemes. He's got quick little guards that would snatch up his primitive, clunky dribbling in the post. Take prime Wilt and stick him into today's game and his FG% and attempts both go down.

We don't even need to imagine the bolded because it did happen in the playoffs when he finally faced competition. But lettuce all enjoy watching loseruss copy paste CHERRY PICKED wall of texts to prove he is an idiot. :roll:

[iamgine]

Wilt won't be getting big minutes today. He'd sit out at times just based on his FT shooting alone.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt won't be getting big minutes today. He'd sit out at times just based on his FT shooting alone.

Not if he were on the Clippers.

[iamgine]

Not if he were on the Clippers.
Even Deandre Jordan only got 34 minutes per game.

[LAZERUSS]

Even Deandre Jordan only got 34 minutes per game.

It was because he didn't have the STAMINA to play 40+ mpg. BUT, his coach would leave him on the floor long enough to take 34 FTAs in a game.

Chamberlain would get 40-45 mpg, and dominant just as he always did.

[VeeCee15]

To be honest...judging from those highlights Wilt looks like
a poor man's javale mcgee.

[Straight_Ballin]

Wilt wasn't shit. If he was, he would have destroyed the whole infrastructure, backboard and all like shaq did. Simply put, he wasn't strong enough.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt wasn't shit. If he was, he would have destroyed the whole infrastructure, backboard and all like shaq did. Simply put, he wasn't strong enough.

Probably the wrong thread...but, and again...instead of smashing backboards like Gus Johnson routinely did...


"The greatest play I've ever seen was one of the last games of the 1966-67 season and were playing Baltimore. We [Philadelphia] were going for the best record in NBA history. There was a play earlier in the game where Gus Johnson had dunked one over Wilt. Gus was a very strong player. I weighed 220 pounds, and with one hand Gus could push me out of the lane. The man was a physical specimen [6-foot-6, 230 pounds], all muscle. He loved to dunk and was a very colorful player. When he slammed it on Wilt, he really threw it down, and you could tell that Wilt didn't like it one bit.
Later in the game, Gus was out on the fast break, and the only man between him and the basket was Wilt. He was goin to dunk on Wilt--again. Gus cupped the ball and took off--he had a perfect angle for a slam. Wilt went up and with one hand he grabbed the ball--cleanly! Then he took the ball and shoved it right back into Gus, drilling Gus into the floor with the basketball.
Gus was flattened and they carried him out. It turned out that Gus Johnson was the only player in NBA history to suffer a dislocated shoulder from a blocked shot."

[Poochymama]

wtf kind of Stan logic is this? We're going to assume Wilt is a 61% shooter on high volume attempts because he played in a league where players couldn't shoot?

This. Wilt's fg% would go down in today's league, not up. Anyone who thinks that's not the case is delusional or a stan. Just because players were terrible contested shot takers back in the 60's doesn't mean Wilt would be getting magically better looks.

[CavaliersFTW]

This. Wilt's fg% would go down in today's league, not up. Anyone who thinks that's not the case is delusional or a stan. Just because players were terrible contested shot takers back in the 60's doesn't mean Wilt would be getting magically better looks.
What do you get when you add a 3 point line to the game:

*Hint (Wider floor spacing)

What do you get when you loosen up ball handling rules, and eliminate hand checking

*Hint (Offense under less duress, more patient/higher percentage looks)

This is exactly what the NBA intended to do with both of those rules.

[Poochymama]

I could see Wilt doing something like:
24-26/14-16/2-5 on 45-50% FG 45-50% TS with a few dpoy in the rs
17-19/15-17/2-5 on 43-48% FG 43-48% TS in the ps
14-15/15-17/2-5 on 43-48% FG 43-48% TS in the finals

Depending on how his carerr lined up with other players, he'd be the best in the league some years, but he wouldn't be better than prime Lebron/Shaq/Jordan.

The rules now are even harder on big men to try and make it easier for guards cause the league is obsessed with finding the next Jordan. Plus the pace is way slower, so you're gonna get way less freebie layup/dunk drill buckets like you did back then(as shown in the highlights).

[Poochymama]

What do you get when you add a 3 point line to the game:

*Hint (Wider floor spacing)

What do you get when you loosen up ball handling rules, and eliminate hand checking

*Hint (Offense under less duress, more patient/higher percentage looks)

This is exactly what the NBA intended to do with both of those rules.

That's a good point, but it wouldn't offset the tougher paint rules or generally better defense and double schemes of today. Then you take away 30% of the extra gimme transition buckets the highlights show from that time. His fg% would most definitely decline if we timetravel him to today's game.

[Nuff Said]

All respect to wilt but this is the worst highlight reel I've ever seen.

[Poochymama]

7. And finally, I'm sorry, but if you watch a video such as this one and you can't see how incredibly primitive both he and his competition are, then you will never be able to understand. With the exception of his fadeaway bank shot, he doesn't have any "moves." The size, skill, athleticism, coaching, and every single other aspect of the game today is absolutely galaxies away from how it was in the past. Watch these videos side by side. If you can't see the difference between Wilt back then and players these days, you will never see:

http://goo.gl/d1AH0d

This is the best post of this thread, and this is the best point in the best post. There's simply no way any objective person(ie non stan) can watch those videos side by side and think that the players on the left are anywhere near as skilled as the players on the right. And I'm not even talking about the athleticism or the ball handling, I'm talking about the shooting form...the lack of set shot usage...the foot movement of the defenders...the more frequent fakes...the wider array of post moves that are quicker and more reactionary(apart from a few players I've seen)... the way the ball moves around the offense...the way the defense recovers...the help defense...the quality of screens...picks...the general smoothness of plays...it's like not even comparable; anyone who can watch those videos side by side and say it is is basically holding a giant STAN side over their head.

If you want to say Wilt dominated his peers more than anyone ever and rank him on that, then fine(though there's still issue of the playoffs and finals, which should be what matters most), you can call him GOAT. But lets not be idiots and pretend he would dominate anywhere near the same way in this era. His fga, rebounds, efficiency and minutes would all decline, and his fga, rebounds, and minutes would decline significantly.

[iamgine]

It was because he didn't have the STAMINA to play 40+ mpg. BUT, his coach would leave him on the floor long enough to take 34 FTAs in a game.

Chamberlain would get 40-45 mpg, and dominant just as he always did.
False. Guys in the 60s just average more minutes. Some 60s guy called Terry Dischinger averaged more minutes than everyone in the NBA today. Did he have more stamina than every single player today?

[DonDadda59]

Here is footage of Chamberlain throwing Artis Gilmore around like a rag doll.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1utx7OxiaoU



Tall tales aside, Wilt was clearly nowhere near as powerful or physically imposing as Shaq. Just compare that footage of Wilt going up against Gilmore to that of Shaq against Mutumbo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGNPNYJIZzI).

[CavaliersFTW]

Tall tales aside, Wilt was clearly nowhere near as powerful or physically imposing as Shaq. Just compare that footage of Wilt going up against Gilmore to that of Shaq against Mutumbo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGNPNYJIZzI).
Mutumbo isn't half the strength of Gilmore are you joking with this comparison? If Wilt didn't exist, Gilmore is in the discussion as strongest player ever with Shaq.

[DonDadda59]

Mutumbo isn't half the strength of Gilmore are you joking with this comparison? If Wilt didn't exist, Gilmore is in the discussion as strongest player ever with Shaq.

Based on what? :Waits patiently for tall tales about Gilmore killing a rhino with his bare hands:

And for the record, this is David Robinson:

http://www.madeiracityschools.com/project2_spring2013/rizzuto_p2/robinsonspurs.jpg

This is David Robinson trying to stop Shaq (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztvmf228wvQ)

C'mon Son (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI85iVU3xkE)

No footage I've seen of Wilt suggests he was anywhere near the athlete Shaq was, especially not in terms of strength. And I'm of the opinion that Wilt would be a stud in any era.

[FKAri]

Based on what? :Waits patiently for tall tales about Gilmore killing a rhino with his bare hands:

And for the record, this is David Robinson:

http://www.madeiracityschools.com/project2_spring2013/rizzuto_p2/robinsonspurs.jpg

This is David Robinson trying to stop Shaq (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztvmf228wvQ)

C'mon Son (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI85iVU3xkE)

No footage I've seen of Wilt suggests he was anywhere near the athlete Shaq was, especially not in terms of strength. And I'm of the opinion that Wilt would be a stud in any era.

DRob was giving up 70 lbs to Shaq :oldlol: That picture just proves that point. He had no bulk on him. That's why old and fat Sabonis guarded Shaq better.

[SugarHill]

great thread for multiple reasons lol

[DonDadda59]

DRob was giving up 70 lbs to Shaq :oldlol:

And everyone in Wilt's era would be giving up like 100 lbs and 1/2 a foot to Shaq. Even when the Dipper played against small forward sized, unathletic centers he clearly was nowhere near being as physically imposing, explosive, or powerful as Shaq was.

[CavaliersFTW]

Based on what? :Waits patiently for tall tales about Gilmore killing a rhino with his bare hands:

And for the record, this is David Robinson:

http://www.madeiracityschools.com/project2_spring2013/rizzuto_p2/robinsonspurs.jpg

This is David Robinson trying to stop Shaq (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztvmf228wvQ)

C'mon Son (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI85iVU3xkE)

No footage I've seen of Wilt suggests he was anywhere near the athlete Shaq was, especially not in terms of strength. And I'm of the opinion that Wilt would be a stud in any era.
Need a lesson in photography? Zoom lenses, which rapidly developed in the 1970's-80's in sports photography, fill out subjects. Robinson was what, 260 at his max? Wilt was 258 lbs rookie that filled out to upwards of 320lbs. Gilmore was a 240lb rookie that filled out to 285-290. Robinson was a 227lb rookie. He was ripped, not bulky. There's a difference. Like Nate Thurmond, he was also ripped, but not bulky and as such not nearly as strong as players like Wilt, or Gilmore for that matter, or Shaq.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sJ8-6it3yKI/UjP3C8U0KYI/AAAAAAAAEqo/eUg7qg_3Ndk/s800/Wilt%2520and%2520Russell%2520Next%2520to%2520Drob. jpg

Which man looks bigger to you.

[CavaliersFTW]

And everyone in Wilt's era would be giving up like 100 lbs and 1/2 a foot to Shaq. Even when the Dipper played against small forward sized, unathletic centers he clearly was nowhere near being as physically imposing, explosive, or powerful as Shaq was.
Sometimes I wonder if you are mentally retarded.

You can't even win your own pic game. Nate Thurmond GOAT strong man in NBA history:

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz259/HolyGrailSports/1970s-NateThurmond.jpg

Far far superior walmart looking employees of the modern era like this:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RowO8aRg8PE/VRNflSi0K3I/AAAAAAAAF2E/tJTsp7VkieY/s800/Kaci-with-Dwight-Howard-717686.jpg

[zoom17]

Sometimes I wonder if you are mentally retarded.

You can't even win your own pic game. Nate Thurmond GOAT strong man in NBA history:

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz259/HolyGrailSports/1970s-NateThurmond.jpg

Far far superior walmart looking employees of the modern era like this:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RowO8aRg8PE/VRNflSi0K3I/AAAAAAAAF2E/tJTsp7VkieY/s800/Kaci-with-Dwight-Howard-717686.jpg

Hey

http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2lyipkLzw1qc1jg4o1_400.gif

[dubeta]

Sometimes I wonder if you are mentally retarded.

You can't even win your own pic game. Nate Thurmond GOAT strong man in NBA history:

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz259/HolyGrailSports/1970s-NateThurmond.jpg

Far far superior walmart looking employees of the modern era like this:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RowO8aRg8PE/VRNflSi0K3I/AAAAAAAAF2E/tJTsp7VkieY/s800/Kaci-with-Dwight-Howard-717686.jpg

Dwights covered in full sleeves in a baggy shirt, biased shot, any angles of Dwight with no sleeves?

[Fallen Angel]

This dude thinks strength has to do with how big your veins are? What are you 12? NFL Lineman and Powerlifters are some of the strongest guys in American sports, yet they are all bulk, no veins.



And that picture of Dwight Howard was from as far back as 2009.

[DonDadda59]

Need a lesson in photography? Zoom lenses, which rapidly developed in the 1970's-80's in sports photography, fill out subjects. Robinson was what, 260 at his max? Wilt was 258 lbs rookie that filled out to upwards of 320lbs. Gilmore was a 240lb rookie that filled out to 285-290. Robinson was a 227lb rookie. He was ripped, not bulky. There's a difference. Like Nate Thurmond, he was also ripped, but not bulky and as such not nearly as strong as players like Wilt, or Gilmore for that matter, or Shaq.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sJ8-6it3yKI/UjP3C8U0KYI/AAAAAAAAEqo/eUg7qg_3Ndk/s800/Wilt%2520and%2520Russell%2520Next%2520to%2520Drob. jpg

Which man looks bigger to you.

And Yao Ming was 7'6" 310 lbs as a rookie... Shaq yammed it on him to.

Shaq as a rookie (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DSN1KnAW-Y) was far stronger, explosive, and skilled than any center from the 60s-70s (minus the skills part for Kareem).

[DonDadda59]

Sometimes I wonder if you are mentally retarded.

You can't even win your own pic game. Nate Thurmond GOAT strong man in NBA history:


http://super.abril.com.br/blogs/superlistas/files/2014/03/Challenge_Accepted_Rage_Meme.png

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq11/MR2BOY23/dwight_nojersey.jpg

https://kangjk.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/ben-wallace1.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii304/minyminh97/jun1024x768w.jpg

Edit- Almost forgot... *No Homo*

[Westbrook0]

This is the best post of this thread, and this is the best point in the best post. There's simply no way any objective person(ie non stan) can watch those videos side by side and think that the players on the left are anywhere near as skilled as the players on the right. And I'm not even talking about the athleticism or the ball handling, I'm talking about the shooting form...the lack of set shot usage...the foot movement of the defenders...the more frequent fakes...the wider array of post moves that are quicker and more reactionary(apart from a few players I've seen)... the way the ball moves around the offense...the way the defense recovers...the help defense...the quality of screens...picks...the general smoothness of plays...it's like not even comparable; anyone who can watch those videos side by side and say it is is basically holding a giant STAN side over their head.

If you want to say Wilt dominated his peers more than anyone ever and rank him on that, then fine(though there's still issue of the playoffs and finals, which should be what matters most), you can call him GOAT. But lets not be idiots and pretend he would dominate anywhere near the same way in this era. His fga, rebounds, efficiency and minutes would all decline, and his fga, rebounds, and minutes would decline significantly.

Thank you. I'm glad there is finally an influx of people into this topic that can see reason.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://super.abril.com.br/blogs/superlistas/files/2014/03/Challenge_Accepted_Rage_Meme.png

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RowO8aRg8PE/VRNflSi0K3I/AAAAAAAAF2E/tJTsp7VkieY/s800/Kaci-with-Dwight-Howard-717686.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dpMmXPjkiFo/Um3cP0DUTpI/AAAAAAAAExQ/U09aaZg_7mU/s800/Bill%252520and%252520Ben%2525201.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jGRwEok6id4/Um3cQDNs-RI/AAAAAAAAExU/n_73x053d3c/s800/Bill%252520and%252520Ben%2525202.jpg


Edit- Almost forgot... *No Homo*
:biggums:

Breh... Those guys are supposedly stronger than these guys?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-JCc8JFbQOpw/VPtGIfIAcFI/AAAAAAAAFu0/0crhnxu0g4I/s800/wilt80%252527s.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GOiGt.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz259/HolyGrailSports/1970s-NateThurmond.jpg



Pics says it all. Not a chance.

[DonDadda59]

:biggums:

Breh... Those guys are supposedly stronger than these guys?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m943knu4wa1qgjs8go1_1280.jpg

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/1a/b1/29/1ab12957df5b73ed43a36f13b1dc3fb2.jpg

http://www.discoveringidentity.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Thurmond.png



Pics says it all. Not a chance.

Left arm vein game on point doe :applause:

[CavaliersFTW]

I've just proved Cavaliersftw's point :applause:
Check mate.

[warriorfan]

broscience convention

[DonDadda59]

Check mate.

Bitches love a vascular man. :applause:

[jongib369]

And Yao Ming was 7'6" 310 lbs as a rookie... Shaq yammed it on him to.

Shaq as a rookie (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DSN1KnAW-Y) was far stronger, explosive, and skilled than any center from the 60s-70s (minus the skills part for Kareem).
Yao wasn't as strong, athletic, or long. His head stood higher, but his standing reach is about the same. With a shorter wingspan than Wilt

You don't think Wilt could offer more of a challenge?

[DonDadda59]

You don't think Wilt could offer more of a challenge?

Perhaps he could but I just don't think the Big Dipper was the overall athlete or physical force Shaq was. He might have an advantage here or there as Hakeem (agility/mobility) or Kareem (finesse) did. But overall... not really a contest.

[AintNoSunshine]

As soon as he sees another decently sized black dude like that William Russell he got destroyed.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Based on what? :Waits patiently for tall tales about Gilmore killing a rhino with his bare hands:


I believe, for example, that Robert Parish said Artis Gilmore was the strongest player he ever faced, followed by Shaq... And the Chief also went up against centers such as D-Rob, Mutombo, Moses, Mahorn, Mychal Thompson, Eaton, Ewing...

[LAZERUSS]

I believe, for example, that Robert Parish said Artis Gilmore was the strongest player he ever faced, followed by Shaq... And the Chief also went up against centers such as D-Rob, Mutombo, Moses, Mahorn, Mychal Thompson, Eaton, Ewing...

Yes he did.

:cheers:

And there is video footage of Chamberlain pushing Gilmore around like a rag doll in the '72 ABA-NBA ASG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1utx7OxiaoU

[LAZERUSS]

Perhaps he could but I just don't think the Big Dipper was the overall athlete or physical force Shaq was. He might have an advantage here or there as Hakeem (agility/mobility) or Kareem (finesse) did. But overall... not really a contest.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

How many college HIGH JUMP championships did Shaq win?

And in how many pro football tryouts did Shaq run a 4.6 40? (BTW, that was 27 year old Wilt at 290 lbs, and with no preparation.) Wilt claims h ran a 4.4 in college, and given the last comment, who would doubt it?

Chamberlain was a FAR greater leaper, and MUCH faster than Shaq. Couple that with the FACT that it is Wilt, and NOT Shaq who has been considered the strongest man to have ever played the game...well, Shaq was no Wilt.

As for skills? You are kidding right?

Find me an article like this on Shaq:

http://wiltfan.tripod.com/quotes.html




Carl Braun said "He [Wilt] disorganizes you under the basket the same way [as Bill Russell, on defense]. With Wilt, of course, there's that offense on top of it, which is better than Russell's. He hit on all those jumpers."
"Yes, Wilt hit on those jumpers...Wilt did come into the league with a good touch from the outside, which made his early scoring that much more significant. He wasn't just dunking the ball then."

--Red Holzman. A View from the Bench. P.70



Sorry, but there was not one single area in which Shaq was close to Wilt. Chamberlain was a better scorer; at his peak, much more efficient...especially when compared to league average eFG%'s; a much greater rebounder; a far greater defensive force; and a much greater shot-blocker.

Now, can you imagine the even more staggering numbers that Chamberlain would have put up had he been allowed to do this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

The reality was...put Shaq in Wilt's era, and he would either get called for palming, or traveling on every dribble...or else he would have fouled out on the offensive end in five minutes.

Again, Wilt >>>> Shaq.

[brownmamba00]

Hakeem>both^^

[LAZERUSS]

Hakeem>both^^

:roll: :roll: :roll:

King of "the First Round Exit" Olajuwon.

Wilt
KAJ
Russell
Shaq
Duncan if you put him at center
Moses

Hakeem.

[brownmamba00]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

King of "the First Round Exit" Olajuwon.

Wilt
KAJ
Russell
Shaq
Duncan if you put him at center
Moses

Hakeem.
Kareem and Hakeem over anyone on that list give me centers that got actual skills with ability to take over games instead of guys that can't even shoot FTs

[LAZERUSS]

Kareem and Hakeem over anyone on that list give me centers that got actual skills with ability to take over games instead of guys that can't even shoot FTs

I'll give you Kareem. At ages 38-39, he just MURDERED a young Hakeem. Hell, at age 40, he oustcored and badly outshot a 24 year old Hakeem (.567 to .403) in their four seasonal H2H's.

Taking over games?

You mean the Chamberlain who hung FOUR 50+ point games in the playoffs...THREE of which are the ONLY THREE ever accomplished by a GOAT in "must-win" playoff games? And the Wilt who hung a 45 point, "Must-win" game in a Finals?

THIS Wilt...




Wilt's numbers in his 23 elimination games...13 of which came against HOF starting centers.

12-11 W-L record

31.1 ppg (Regular season career average was 30.1 ppg)
26.1 rpg (Regular season career average was 22.9 rpg)
3.4 apg (Regular season career average was 4.4 apg)
.540 FG% (Regular season career average was .540 FG%)


3 games of 50+ points

5 games of 40+ points (including a Finals 40+ elimination game)

13 games of 30+ points

6 games of 30+ rebounds

20 games of 20+ rebounds

BTW, in these elimination games...Wilt's 31.1 ppg average is just behind Lebron's 31.9 and MJ's 31.3 ppg.



I'll take a Chamberlain who DOMINATED his opponents and didn't get slaughtered by someone like Shaq in the post-season.

[Mr Feeny]

I'll give you Kareem. At ages 38-39, he just MURDERED a young Hakeem. Hell, at age 40, he oustcored and badly outshot a 24 year old Hakeem (.567 to .403) in their four seasonal H2H's.

Taking over games?

You mean the Chamberlain who hung FOUR 50+ point games in the playoffs...THREE of which are the ONLY THREE ever accomplished by a GOAT in "must-win" playoff games? And the Wilt who hung a 45 point, "Must-win" game in a Finals?

THIS Wilt...



I'll take a Chamberlain who DOMINATED his opponents and didn't get slaughtered by someone like Shaq in the post-season.

Tbf Shaq is a much more dominant player THAN Wilt was. Wilt, when it really mattered, was an 18 ppg finals scorer and a 22 ppg playoff scorer. Shaq did that in his sleep.

[LAZERUSS]

Tbf Shaq is a much more dominant player THAN Wilt was. Wilt, when it really mattered, was an 18 ppg finals scorer and a 22 ppg playoff scorer. Shaq did that in his sleep.

A PEAK Shaq accomplished those three-peat Finals against an aging Mutombo; a skinny nerd in Smits; and a complete bust in McCullough.

A PRIME Chamberlain was facing a PEAK Russell in '64 and a PEAK Thurmond in '67.

BTW, how come Shaq's numbers dropped across the board against the Robinson-led Spurs in the playoffs from '99 thru '02?

Oh, and how come a PRIME Shaq could only put up a 23-12 .493 series against a clown like Ostertag...all while leading his team down the toilet, 4-1, and narrowly avoiding his SEVENTH career SWEEPING LOSS?

How come a PRIME Shaq could only hang 27 ppg on a 6-7 Wallace, who badly outrebounded him, and in a series in which, yet again, Shaq narrowly avoided that SEVENTH sweeping loss?

[Mr Feeny]

A PEAK Shaq accomplished those three-peat Finals against an aging Mutombo; a skinny nerd in Smits; and a complete bust in McCullough.

A PRIME Chamberlain was facing a PEAK Russell in '64 and a PEAK Thurmond in '67.

BTW, how come Shaq's numbers dropped across the board against the Robinson-led Spurs in the playoffs from '99 thru '02?

Oh, and how come a PRIME Shaq could only put up a 23-12 .493 series against a clown like Ostertag...all while leading his team down the toilet, 4-1, and narrowly avoiding his SEVENTH career SWEEPING LOSS?

How come a PRIME Shaq could only hang 27 ppg on a 6-7 Wallace, who badly outrebounded him, and in a series in which, yet again, Shaq narrowly avoided that SEVENTH sweeping loss?


You nailed in in your first sentence. Shaq 3 peated as lead dog. Wilt - in his entire career - couldn't get 3 championships as the man or as a role player. Ouch.

[LAZERUSS]

You nailed in in your first sentence. Shaq 3 peated as lead dog. Wilt - in his entire career - couldn't get 3 championships as the man or as a role player. Ouch.

Yes, Shaq, carried by Kobe in the WC playoffs, could brutalize complete jokes in the Finals...

But, without any more than a rookie Kobe...Mr. SIX SWEEPING LOSSES in the playoffs.

Put a prime Chamberlain on those Laker teams, and the results would have been 39-23 and on a eFG% that was a full 13 percentage points above the post-season league eFG%...ala Beaty in the '64 WCF's.

[dunksby]

Wilt was most dominant when he became a defensive specialist, he would be like a bigger and better Ben Wallace and shut down the paint in today's league. He wasn't skilled much offensively though so I could see him putting up 18/18/5/3/4 during his prime. Don't doubt for a second that he would intimidate anyone who drove to the paint. Andrew Bogut is hailed as a great defending big today, imagine what would be said of Wilt.

[VeeCee15]

ppl need to keep it real
Look at that wilt chamberlain video. Objectively speaking he has less skill and coordination than roy hibbert. Put that exact wilt in today's nba? with his skillset from his era and he would get DESTROYED. You see guy's in the gym with more skills than he displayed and more smoothness.

[LAZERUSS]

ppl need to keep it real
Look at that wilt chamberlain video. Objectively speaking he has less skill and coordination than roy hibbert. Put that exact wilt in today's nba? with his skillset from his era and he would get DESTROYED. You see guy's in the gym with more skills than he displayed and more smoothness.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

Hibbert would look like a corpse compared to THAT Chamberlain.

[Mr Feeny]

ppl need to keep it real
Look at that wilt chamberlain video. Objectively speaking he has less skill and coordination than roy hibbert. Put that exact wilt in today's nba? with his skillset from his era and he would get DESTROYED. You see guy's in the gym with more skills than he displayed and more smoothness.

This. Wilt wouldn't have stood a chance against Hibbert. Anthony Davis would have so many moved for him that Wilts head would be spinning.