Coach K on the triangle: "it

[Springsteen]

Apologies if this was posted but I just finished reading this great write-up on the struggles of the Triangle Offense in NY by the New York Times. I reccomend it to everyone here.

Coach K basically eviscerates the notion of the Triangle being some sort of pariah, and suggests that it only succeeded when played with an all-time great who could win with any kind of offense, rendering it moot.


"I never try to put my players in a system,” he said, not long before his adjustments enabled the Blue Devils to win the national championship. “I try to create a system that’s good for my players.”

Had he thought of trying the triangle? The idea seemed to startle him.

It was so successful, I ventured. “The triangle didn’t win crap!” he said sternly. “Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant! Whatever offense I run, that offense didn’t do it. Winning means you had the caliber of players capable of winning a championship.”

Then he seemed to want to soothe the situation. “I have nothing against the triangle,” he said. “I think it’s a great offense. But it’s a lot better if Jordan loves it or Kobe loves it.”

The triangle, Krzyzewski said, is an offense of unconventional resort, well suited to a team without a classic point guard. Likewise, if you have a gifted player who transcends traditional positioning, like Jordan, Bryant or (theoretically) LeBron James, the triangle will allow him to play the lead in a way that also intensifies the contributions of his supporting teammates — like the sidemen in Miles Davis’s renowned quintets.

Our conversation was ending, and again Krzyzewski was unable to resist applying a little defensive pressure, saying, “The triangle’s not working in New York, by the way.”

There are a couple quotes from Steve Kerr as well explaining how he adapted some of the Triangle into the type of game played today (3's and layups) for the Warriors, something Jackson refuses to do.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/sports/basketball/phil-jackson-knicks-triangle-offense-nba.html?smid=tw-nytimes

[riseagainst]

it's true. MJ and Kobe made Phil Jackson and the triangle, not the other way around.

[sundizz]

I respectfully disagree.

The greatest coaching challenge is to give role players both the opportunity and confidence to succeed when it matters most.

Most offenses are so ball usage heavy or dribble heavy that it becomes more a game of baseball than one of basketball.

There is truth in feeling. Players will shoot better when their confidence is high (situational confidence). It is why Dwight can shoot 89% in practice and half that in games.

Both the trianglr and the Pop/Kerr/Bud systems of offense work with that underlying principle. They give role players ample time to make plays while still allowing opportunities for superstars to do their heat check dominance game here and there when needed.

[Replay32]

I respectfully disagree.

The greatest coaching challenge is to give role players both the opportunity and confidence to succeed when it matters most.

Most offenses are so ball usage heavy or dribble heavy that it becomes more a game of baseball than one of basketball.

There is truth in feeling. Players will shoot better when their confidence is high (situational confidence). It is why Dwight can shoot 89% in practice and half that in games.

Both the trianglr and the Pop/Kerr/Bud systems of offense work with that underlying principle. They give role players ample time to make plays while still allowing opportunities for superstars to do their heat check dominance game here and there when needed.

:applause:

This post is spot on.

[warriorfan]

I respectfully disagree.

The greatest coaching challenge is to give role players both the opportunity and confidence to succeed when it matters most.

Most offenses are so ball usage heavy or dribble heavy that it becomes more a game of baseball than one of basketball.

There is truth in feeling. Players will shoot better when their confidence is high (situational confidence). It is why Dwight can shoot 89% in practice and half that in games.

Both the trianglr and the Pop/Kerr/Bud systems of offense work with that underlying principle. They give role players ample time to make plays while still allowing opportunities for superstars to do their heat check dominance game here and there when needed.

Good post

Maximizing the efficiency of your role players while conserving energy for your Superstar to take over down the stretch in the 4th is the key to success with the Triangle

This is why LeBron Ball fails so much. It is the polar opposite of this. It turns your role players (and your great players) into spot up shooters while tiring out your Superstar. This is a huge factor in LBJ's infamous 4th quarter disappearing acts.

[BBallZen83]

Good post

Maximizing the efficiency of your role players while conserving energy for your Superstar to take over down the stretch in the 4th is the key to success with the Triangle

This is why LeBron Ball fails so much. It is the polar opposite of this. It turns your role players (and your great players) into spot up shooters while tiring out your Superstar. This is a huge factor in LBJ's infamous 4th quarter disappearing acts.

You just admitted here that Lebron was tired out in 4th quarters. Exactly my point, and a lot of other "Lebron stan's" points in here. He wasn't choking in 4th quarters a la 2011. He was tiring out. And you are right. He had to be ball dominant the entire game. Not that I think it was a flaw in Cleveland's strategy. It was their only hope, and eventual downfall.

[r15mohd]

Good post

Maximizing the efficiency of your role players while conserving energy for your Superstar to take over down the stretch in the 4th is the key to success with the Triangle

This is why LeBron Ball fails so much. It is the polar opposite of this. It turns your role players (and your great players) into spot up shooters while tiring out your Superstar. This is a huge factor in LBJ's infamous 4th quarter disappearing acts.


It's more than just Lebron ball...his teams have sucked more times than not, and that is the underlying reason to the losses of the Finals. Lebron ball works when the other pieces are doing their job, see 2012 and 2013. If the role players aren't brick-city, they are successful. And it goes to show in every series they play, not just the Finals. Atlanta this year, Chicago as well. Pacer series when he was with the Heat, even those few Chicago matchups...Wade did his part, and even guys like Bosh stepped up in key moments as well as the shooters.

same can be said for the triangle...if MJ had a bad game, Pippen was always on cue to pick up the lapse. Same for Kobe/Shaq and Kobe/Pau tandems. The alternate options have ALWAYS been able to step up in another major factors absence.

With Lebron in 2007, 2014 and 2015, no one did that to assist. Wasn't a system or him tiring out thing...it's the other components failing. And same can be said about him in 2011, he didn't show up for whatever reason and we see the results.

[smoovegittar]

I respectfully disagree.

The greatest coaching challenge is to give role players both the opportunity and confidence to succeed when it matters most.

Most offenses are so ball usage heavy or dribble heavy that it becomes more a game of baseball than one of basketball.

There is truth in feeling. Players will shoot better when their confidence is high (situational confidence). It is why Dwight can shoot 89% in practice and half that in games.

Both the trianglr and the Pop/Kerr/Bud systems of offense work with that underlying principle. They give role players ample time to make plays while still allowing opportunities for superstars to do their heat check dominance game here and there when needed.

Yes!

[STATUTORY]

You just admitted here that Lebron was tired out in 4th quarters. Exactly my point, and a lot of other "Lebron stan's" points in here. He wasn't choking in 4th quarters a la 2011. He was tiring out. And you are right. He had to be ball dominant the entire game. Not that I think it was a flaw in Cleveland's strategy. It was their only hope, and eventual downfall.

no he didn't have to be ball dominant, he just doesn't know how to play any other way, there's a difference

[warriorfan]

You just admitted here that Lebron was tired out in 4th quarters. Exactly my point, and a lot of other "Lebron stan's" points in here. He wasn't choking in 4th quarters a la 2011. He was tiring out. And you are right. He had to be ball dominant the entire game. Not that I think it was a flaw in Cleveland's strategy. It was their only hope, and eventual downfall.

Being tired isn't a valid excuse. It's LeBron's fault for not managing his energy properly or not conditioning himself well enough.

[Springsteen]

no he didn't have to be ball dominant, he just doesn't know how to play any other way, there's a difference

He won two rings while only attempting 17 FGA's per game during his run in Miami. What are you talking about?

[BBallZen83]

He won two rings while only attempting 17 FGA's per game during his run in Miami. What are you talking about?

I'm not sure he knows himself.

[noob cake]

C'mon. MJ would have won playing 'Antoni chuck ball. Talent > Style.

[STATUTORY]

He won two rings while only attempting 17 FGA's per game during his run in Miami. What are you talking about?
ball dominance = FGAs? :rolleyes: dumb reductionist logic

[BBallZen83]

It's more than just Lebron ball...his teams have sucked more times than not, and that is the underlying reason to the losses of the Finals. Lebron ball works when the other pieces are doing their job, see 2012 and 2013. If the role players aren't brick-city, they are successful. And it goes to show in every series they play, not just the Finals. Atlanta this year, Chicago as well. Pacer series when he was with the Heat, even those few Chicago matchups...Wade did his part, and even guys like Bosh stepped up in key moments as well as the shooters.

same can be said for the triangle...if MJ had a bad game, Pippen was always on cue to pick up the lapse. Same for Kobe/Shaq and Kobe/Pau tandems. The alternate options have ALWAYS been able to step up in another major factors absence.

With Lebron in 2007, 2014 and 2015, no one did that to assist. Wasn't a system or him tiring out thing...it's the other components failing. And same can be said about him in 2011, he didn't show up for whatever reason and we see the results.

EXACTLY! Jesus, why can't people just be honest and admit this. EVEN Lebron trolls admit that he crapped the bed in 2011, but anyone else who says he is to blame for '07, '14, and '15 either didn't watch, or are just trying to shit on him. I really feel like Lebron stans are slightly more rational than Kobe fans. With a Kobe stan, he gets the blame for basically nothing.

[Rose'sACL]

I'm not sure he knows himself.
He doesn't even know that there was no decent ball handler on cavs other than lebron.
Delly averaged more turnovers than buckets.

[BBallZen83]

He doesn't even know that there was no decent ball handler on cavs other than lebron.
Delly averaged more turnovers than buckets.

Every time Delly had the ball in his hand, I would repeatedly mutter "oh Jesus, oh Jesus, oh Jesus". I was never comfortable when he was distributing.

[Springsteen]

I'm not sure he knows himself.

You are one of the only sane posters on this board, dude.