LeNarrative Change

[DonDadda59]

A couple of weeks ago, without Kyrie or Love, Bron led a SWEEP of a 60 win team. Stans and pundits labeled this the crowning achievement of LeBron's career. He makes everyone around him better, no other player can do this, he's the GOAT, etc.

Then when they lose against Golden State, another 60 win team, in game 1 and Kyrie goes down again, all of a sudden the narrative took a complete 180. No way LeBron can be expected to win now, his teammates are horrible, he has no help.

What changed? :confusedshrug:

[STATUTORY]

we also didn't hear much about fg% and PER this series

why is that?

[HOoopCityJones]

LeExcuses.

[navy]

67 wins is much different from 60 wins....

[r15mohd]

A couple of weeks ago, without Kyrie or Love, Bron led a SWEEP of a 60 win team. Stans and pundits labeled this the crowning achievement of LeBron's career. He makes everyone around him better, no other player can do this, he's the GOAT, etc.

Then when they lose against Golden State, another 60 win team, in game 1 and Kyrie goes down again, all of a sudden the narrative took a complete 180. No way LeBron can be expected to win now, his teammates are horrible, he has no help.

What changed? :confusedshrug:

he lost a 25pt all star who was the 2nd option on offense and took care of the handling of the ball moreso than he did, and which would have likely brought this series to at least 7 with the potential to win it all

a lot changed :rolleyes:

[catch24]

What changed is they played a Western Conference foe.

It's why making the finals out of the east shouldn't be praised to the degree in which LeBron fans proclaim.

[nba_55]

A couple of weeks ago, without Kyrie or Love, Bron led a SWEEP of a 60 win team. Stans and pundits labeled this the crowning achievement of LeBron's career. He makes everyone around him better, no other player can do this, he's the GOAT, etc.

Then when they lose against Golden State, another 60 win team, in game 1 and Kyrie goes down again, all of a sudden the narrative took a complete 180. No way LeBron can be expected to win now, his teammates are horrible, he has no help.

What changed? :confusedshrug:

Irving went down for good, they were playing a much better team. That's not hard. Another question?

[NumberSix]

A couple of weeks ago, without Kyrie or Love, Bron led a SWEEP of a 60 win team. Stans and pundits labeled this the crowning achievement of LeBron's career. He makes everyone around him better, no other player can do this, he's the GOAT, etc.

Then when they lose against Golden State, another 60 win team, in game 1 and Kyrie goes down again, all of a sudden the narrative took a complete 180. No way LeBron can be expected to win now, his teammates are horrible, he has no help.

What changed? :confusedshrug:
He does make his team mates better. Dellavedova went from being a below average bench player to a borderline respectable starter, but he can't make him Russell Westbrook.

[HOoopCityJones]

What changed is they played a Western Conference foe.

It's why making the finals out of the east shouldn't be praised to the degree in which LeBron fans proclaim.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHgwy1RUcAA5HCF.jpg

[MJistheGOAT]

A couple of weeks ago, without Kyrie or Love, Bron led a SWEEP of a 60 win team. Stans and pundits labeled this the crowning achievement of LeBron's career. He makes everyone around him better, no other player can do this, he's the GOAT, etc.

Then when they lose against Golden State, another 60 win team, in game 1 and Kyrie goes down again, all of a sudden the narrative took a complete 180. No way LeBron can be expected to win now, his teammates are horrible, he has no help.

What changed? :confusedshrug:

Im not a Lebron fan at all
But Warriors >>> Hawks, that

[HOoopCityJones]

He does make his team mates better. Dellavedova went from being a below average bench player to a borderline respectable starter, but he can't make him Russell Westbrook.

So Lebron can only win with Westbrook caliber PGs? :roll:

[catch24]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHgwy1RUcAA5HCF.jpg
That says it all.

Dude is a legend, and arguably a Top 10 player, but the fact he beats up on East coast garbage should be mentioned with his 6 finals appearances.

[DonDadda59]

he lost a 25pt all star who was the 2nd option on offense and took care of the handling of the ball moreso than he did, and which would have likely brought this series to at least 7 with the potential to win it all

a lot changed :rolleyes:

Kyrie in the Hawks series- 49 minutes played. Cleveland sweeps. Bron da GOAT, makes everyone better.

Kyrie in the GSW series- 44 minutes played. GS wins. Teammates ain't shit, he had no help.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHgwy1RUcAA5HCF.jpg

That graphic is disingenuous at best when it comes to Bean. Unless you consider his 4 PPG 0 RPG 0 APG against the 60 win Sonics as him 'eliminating' them. But I digress.

[Kblaze8855]

Think about what you just wrote.

Of course he had no help and couldnt b expected to win...that the REASON he was praised for winning the previous round.

Nothing changed. He just didnt repeat the incredibly unlikely.

If all these legends, fans, coaches, and commentators thought the team was good when they beat the Hawks he wouldnt have been so praised for winning.

If a guy with a cracked kneecap wins a qualifying race....people would talk about his heart and overcoming adversity...and if he then lost the next level...its quite obvious that he was running with a disadvantage.

The story to begin with would be....look how great he is to be doing this...and at the end...look how much he did under the circumstances....you cant fault him for losing.

Its fairly straight forward....

[NumberSix]

So Lebron can only win with Westbrook caliber PGs? :roll:
No, he can win with Kyrie Irving caliber PGs.

Actually, he can win with Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole level point guards. Dellavedova will never even be that. You can increase the effectiveness of crappy players into being slightly better crappy players.

Don't be ridiculous. After Irving went out, if you actually though LeBron had a chance of winning this series, you must really think LeBron is bar far the best player that has ever lived.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Weird, I've never seen the media change the narrative to favor Lebron before.

[navy]

Kyrie in the Hawks series- 49 minutes played. Cleveland sweeps. Bron da GOAT, makes everyone better.

Kyrie in the GSW series- 44 minutes played. GS wins. Teammates ain't shit, he had no help.
You are the only one changing the narrative. The reason Lebron was the GOAT in the first one is because his teammates were shit like you said in the second one.

[navy]

Think about what you just wrote.

Of course he had no help and couldnt b expected to win...that the REASON he was praised for winning the previous round.

Nothing changed. He just didnt repeat the incredibly unlikely.

If all these legends, fans, coaches, and commentators thought the team was good when they beat the Hawks he wouldnt have been so praised for winning.

If a guy with a cracked kneecap wins a qualifying race....people would talk about his heart and overcoming adversity...and if he then lost the next level...its quite obvious that he was running with a disadvantage.

The story to begin with would be....look how great he is to be doing this...and at the end...look how much he did under the circumstances....you cant fault him for losing.

Its fairly straight forward....
Basically this.

[HOoopCityJones]

That graphic is disingenuous at best when it comes to Bean. Unless you consider his 4 PPG 0 RPG 0 APG against the 60 win Sonics as him 'eliminating' them. But I digress.

Even if you make the cut off 2006 , he still has more than Lebron. :lol

[DonDadda59]

Think about what you just wrote.

Of course he had no help and couldnt b expected to win...that the REASON he was praised for winning the previous round.

Nothing changed. He just didnt repeat the incredibly unlikely.

I don't remember anyone picking the Hawks to win that series except maybe the most hardcore ATL fans, even after Kyrie went down. And it went as expected. All but one game was a comfortable win for Cavs.

There was nothing 'incredibly unlikely' about their win against the worst 60 win team I've personally witnessed.


Even if you make the cut off 2006 , he still has more than Lebron. :lol:

Indeed.

[Wade's Rings]

That graphic is disingenuous at best when it comes to Bean. Unless you consider his 4 PPG 0 RPG 0 APG against the 60 win Sonics as him 'eliminating' them. But I digress.

In 2009 the Jazz & the Rockets were hurt. I'm not sure about other teams they faced were completely healthy.

Bron has also beaten more 60 Win Teams :lol

[HOoopCityJones]

In 2009 the Jazz & the Rockets were hurt. I'm not sure about other teams they faced were completely healthy.

Bron has also beaten more 60 Win Teams :lol

Only person who was hurt on The Jazz was Okur. But they still had Boozer, Dwill, Korver, Milsap etc.

Yao still played 3 games before going down, Tmac was a non factor from the jump. Yet they still took us to 7 without either of those guys.


Now go look up the injuries on opposing Teams for all of ya boy's 7 victories vs 50 win Teams. :lol

[warriorfan]

LeBron has not had an all time bad supporting cast.


TT = Max player and future all star
Mozgov = Max player and future all star
Shumpert = Solid 3&D role player
Delly = Solid 3&D role player
JR Smith = Explosive scorer
James Jones = best 3 point shooter in the series not named Curry or Klay

[Beastmode88]

http://i.imgur.com/BFvegKr.jpg

[Wade's Rings]

Only person who was hurt on The Jazz was Okur. But they still had Boozer, Dwill, Korver, Milsap etc.

Yao still played 3 games before going down, Tmac was a non factor from the jump. Yet they still took us to 7 without either of those guys.


Now go look up all the injuries on opposing Team for ya boy's 7 victories vs 50 win Teams. :lol

I don't even like Lebron. I hate the guy actually but you Kobe Stans are stupid for blaming him for this loss.

[HOoopCityJones]

I don't even like Lebron. I hate the guy actually but you Kobe Stans are stupid for blaming him for this loss.

Where did I say he's to blame for the loss you big baby? You ain't a fan yet you here falling on your sword over some shit I never even said. :lol

No matter what happened in The Finals it doesn't excuse the pitiful road in the East that made it even possible for a depleted Cavs Team to make it there. Where it pertains to OP's question, difference in conference has just as much to do with it than a lack of talent. Cavs were golden without their two best guys after Lebron...Until they faced a Team that was worth a shit...

[Akrazotile]

Think about what you just wrote.

Of course he had no help and couldnt b expected to win...that the REASON he was praised for winning the previous round.

Nothing changed. He just didnt repeat the incredibly unlikely.

If all these legends, fans, coaches, and commentators thought the team was good when they beat the Hawks he wouldnt have been so praised for winning.

If a guy with a cracked kneecap wins a qualifying race....people would talk about his heart and overcoming adversity...and if he then lost the next level...its quite obvious that he was running with a disadvantage.

The story to begin with would be....look how great he is to be doing this...and at the end...look how much he did under the circumstances....you cant fault him for losing.

Its fairly straight forward....


THANK YOU.

Haters just extra salty now that they know Lebron not only threatens the status of the players they stan, but he is also packing ALPHA SIZED JUNK unlike other so-called "top 10 alphas"

Lebron kicked down the door of the top 3 GOAT ranks this postseason, demonstrated the bewilderingly impressife manhood he was endowed with, and would have won a chip if he didnt have to play against a combo juggernaut of players and refs.

Dude is incredible. Haters FALL BACK.

[Wade's Rings]

Where did I say he's to blame for the loss you big baby? You ain't a fan yet you here falling on your sword over some shit I never even said. :lol

No matter what happened in The Finals it doesn't excuse the pitiful road in the East that made it even possible for a depleted Cavs Team to make it there. Where it pertains to OP's question, difference in conference has just as much to do with it than a lack of talent. Cavs were golden without their two best guys after Lebron...Until they faced a Team that was worth a shit...

Well first of all my 1st Post ITT was replying to Don Dadda not you.

How am i falling on my sword? I typed 1 sentence while you're typing a paragraph :lol

[HOoopCityJones]

Well first of all my 1st Post ITT was replying to Don Dadda not you.

How am i falling on my sword? I typed 1 sentence while you're typing a paragraph :lol

I expanded on the topic of the thread in conjunction with your statements that "waa, you're blaming Lebron for the loss" :confusedshrug:

[Kblaze8855]

That you arent impressed with destroying a 60 win team while short your second and third best player is your business. Clearly the great majority of the basketball world is.

Something about Lebron makes otherwise rational people totally suspend either their common sense or respect for the game. Dude drops 40 point triple doubles with the rest of the perimeter players shooting 25% and the whole team 15% when he sits and its laughing emoticons like its a walk in the park dragging that squad of random role players to prominence.

Top 10-15 players have taken rosters with hall of famers and all stars to 39 wins and missing the playoffs. Lebron goes to the finals and holds his own vs a 67 win team with a guard nobody heard of till 2 weeks ago, a good man to man defender who shot 36%, a guy whos claim to fame was his name becoming a verb after Blake abused him, the 2015 Junkyard Dog, the streakest shooter in the NBA, and the 286th best player in the NBA in James Jones off the bench.

There are only 4 guys likely to be taken if they wee left unprotected in an expansion draft. And the best of them might literally be the 9th man on the Bulls right now. 8th on some nights.

Mosgov, Tristian, and Iman are the only 3 players on that team id even take on the Bulls for free if left to me. And Iman id only take if he cut his hair.

Their starting point would be the Bulls 6th best backcourt player.

The team isnt very good. Thats ll there is too it. Of course he would get praise for taking them to the finals and have losing explained away.

Have you never watched sports before?

Teams that win over 80% of their games tend to defeat a group of marginal players led by one star.

And that one star always has it mentioned....that he had marginal players.

Thats how it works.

[JerrySeinfeld]

http://i.imgur.com/BFvegKr.jpg

is he really trying to prop himself up now for making the finals out of the East :roll:

it's the equivalent of making the 2nd round in the West

[DonDadda59]

THANK YOU.

Haters just extra salty now that they know Lebron not only threatens the status of the players they stan, but he is also packing ALPHA SIZED JUNK unlike other so-called "top 10 alphas"

Lebron kicked down the door of the top 3 GOAT ranks this postseason, demonstrated the bewilderingly impressife manhood he was endowed with, and would have won a chip if he didnt have to play against a combo juggernaut of players and refs.

Dude is incredible. Haters FALL BACK.

More narrative changes. Average to below is now 'alpha sized'. Will LeExcuses never end? :facepalm

[HOoopCityJones]

is he really trying to prop himself up now for making the finals out of the East :roll:

it's the equivalent of making the 2nd round in the West

Funny part is I made a thread about this and people accused me of lying he even said it. Obviously I wasn't the only one who heard him.

[DonDadda59]

That you arent impressed with destroying a 60 win team while short your second and third best player is your business. Clearly the great majority of the basketball world is.

Something about Lebron makes otherwise rational people totally suspend either their common sense or respect for the game. Dude drops 40 point triple doubles with the rest of the perimeter players shooting 25% and the whole team 15% when he sits and its laughing emoticons like its a walk in the park dragging that squad of random role players to prominence.

Top 10-15 players have taken rosters with hall of famers and all stars to 39 wins and missing the playoffs. Lebron goes to the finals and holds his own vs a 67 win team with a guard nobody heard of till 2 weeks ago, a good man to man defender who shot 36%, a guy whos claim to fame was his name becoming a verb after Blake abused him, the 2015 Junkyard Dog, the streakest shooter in the NBA, and the 286th best player in the NBA in James Jones off the bench.

There are only 4 guys likely to be taken if they wee left unprotected in an expansion draft. And the best of them might literally be the 9th man on the Bulls right now. 8th on some nights.

Mosgov, Tristian, and Iman are the only 3 players on that team id even take on the Bulls for free if left to me. And Iman id only take if he cut his hair.

Their starting point would be the Bulls 6th best backcourt player.

The team isnt very good. Thats ll there is too it. Of course he would get praise for taking them to the finals and have losing explained away.

Have you never watched sports before?

Teams that win over 80% of their games tend to defeat a group of marginal players led by one star.

And that one star always has it mentioned....that he had marginal players.

Thats how it works.

Except they clearly weren't outside of the ESPN pundit/LeStan hyperbole. Again, everyone pegged the Cavs to win that series outside of like 2 Hawks fans here even after Kyrie went down.

But as soon as they were about to play a 60 win team from the West all of a sudden the 'abandon all hope' narrative began. I think everyone realizes that there is a massive gap between a 60 win team made up of role players in the East and a 60 win team coming out of the West.

[NumberSix]

Funny part is I made a thread about this and people accused me of lying he even said it. Obviously I wasn't the only one who heard him.
You're not lying. You're just deliberately misrepresenting what he meant. He meant a team that loses 2 all star calibre players due to injury in the playoffs doesnt make the finals in that playoffs. It's completely obvious that that's what he was saying. Not that a team can't make the finals unless it has at least 2 all stars on it.

[navy]

Except they clearly weren't outside of the ESPN pundit/LeStan hyperbole. Again, everyone pegged the Cavs to win that series outside of like 2 Hawks fans here even after Kyrie went down.

But as soon as they were about to play a 60 win team from the West all of a sudden the 'abandon all hope' narrative began. I think everyone realizes that there is a massive gap between a 60 win team made up of role players in the East and a 60 win team coming out of the West.
Warriors are a 67 win team. :no:

[HOoopCityJones]

You're not lying. You're just deliberately misrepresenting what he meant. He meant a team that loses 2 all star calibre players due to injury in the playoffs doesnt make the finals in that playoffs. It's completely obvious that that's what he was saying. Not that a team can't make the finals unless it has at least 2 all stars on it.

That's not what was said though. That's all I want to be acknowledged here.

Lebron Family can correct their idols words all they want, but what he said is probably not what he meant. That simple.

[Kblaze8855]

He said doing it without 2 All Stars. Clearly that can be taken two ways and you know which way he meant it. There is nothing to correct. He worded it properly and let the context of the situation make it obvious which he meant.

Making the claim that you deliberately misinterpreted it seem fair.....

[Kblaze8855]

That someone took the time to make that graphic is fairly hilarious too. They really believe LeBron doesn't know teams have made the finals without having two All Stars? Do they not realize this is the second time LeBron has done it himself? They think he didn't remember 2007?

[outbreak]

He does make his team mates better. Dellavedova went from being a below average bench player to a borderline respectable starter, but he can't make him Russell Westbrook.
Wait so it was lebro n who had him playing great hustle and defense because that's the only thing delly did at a starter level

[navy]

Wait so it was lebro n who had him playing great hustle and defense because that's the only thing delly did at a starter level
Yes. You think Delly would have energy to waste on hustle and defense if he actually had to play offense as a starter for 40 minutes?

[outbreak]

Yes. You think Delly would have energy to waste on hustle and defense if he actually had to play offense as a starter for 40 minutes?
:facepalm

But he was never going to do that on any team. Is tony allen only good because his team mates let him focus on d? How did iggy score and defend the self confessed best player on earth? Its fools like you who try and claim lebron does everything and his team mates get no credit who make people hate lebron:facepalm

He made jr and moGov better by getting them more open shots but he isn't the reason someone gave it full effort on d

[gilalizard]

That says it all.

Dude is a legend, and arguably a Top 10 player, but the fact he beats up on East coast garbage should be mentioned with his 6 finals appearances.

And which makes his stacking up in Miami all the more shameless. And his time there carry far less weight when judging him historically.

He's a great player. He's incredibly gifted athletically. He's just had it extremely easy. The easiest out of all the greats. So easy in fact that it undercuts his historical standing.

Combine how easy he's had it, with his obvious mental weaknesses and lack of true competitive spirit, and it knocks him down the rankings quite a bit.

[navy]

:facepalm

But he was never going to do that on any team. Is tony allen only good because his team mates let him focus on d? How did iggy score and defend the self confessed best player on earth? Its fools like you who try and claim lebron does everything and his team mates get no credit who make people hate lebron:facepalm

He made jr and moGov better by getting them more open shots but he isn't the reason someone gave it full effort on d
lol, Delly just sucks. Everyone who watches him knows.

Iggy was getting good looks from Curry. Yes Curry made him better. If Iggy had to assume the main offense role he would have struggled.

Im just saying a team with Delly at starting point guard isnt going to do shit unless you have someone to take pressure off of him and take over his role as he cant dribble nor play big minutes.