Let's keep it real - the 2015 Finals is indictment on Lebron's 2014 Finals

[3ball]

Lebron is taking 36 shots per game vs. Warriors.. Last year, he took 17 per game versus Spurs.. :eek:

The low volume allowed the Spurs to play at THEIR pace, control the flow of the game, and eventually run away with it, while Lebron fought back by not shooting (b-b-but he was doing other things!).

How much would the Cavs be getting blown out if he only took 17 shots per game THIS year?.. Would the blowout be worse than last year?

How dumb was he to only take 17 shots per game on a top-heavy team last year?... Isn't that one of the dumbest strategic decisions ever?... The facts are there - the Warriors are more talented than the Spurs, yet Lebron is doing better with a worse supporting cast BECAUSE HE'S SHOOTING.
.

[navy]

Miami's offense was much better than the Cavs

[FLDFSU]

Because he wanted his "stacked" teammates to shoot the ball as well...

Being on a "stacked" team requires less shots.

[J Shuttlesworth]

The difference is that Wade and Bosh were playing... both guys who can create their own shot.

Right now, LeBron is playing without Kyrie and Love. He is the only guy who can create his own shot. If Love and Kyrie were in, he would be taking 20ish shots.

But realistically, even LeBron taking 25+ shots last year wouldn't cut it. The Spurs were just too good and performing at one of the highest levels seen in the finals. The Warriors aren't doing that. They shot under 40% tonight themselves.

But yeah, part of me is upset that LeBron 2014 didn't go down swinging.

[3ball]

But realistically, even LeBron taking 25+ shots last year wouldn't cut it.


Did i say 25?... Stop trying to change the facts.

He's averaging THIRTY-SIX shots per game in this series... not 25...

so don't try to be euphemistic and cover up Lebron's stupidity... only someone with a retarded level of hoops acumen shoots 17 times per game in last year's Finals.. :confusedshrug:

i'm dead serious about that.. that is one of the dumbest decisions i've ever seen from any player ever... even i knew it at the time and said as much.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Did i say 25?... Stop trying to change the facts.

He's averaging THIRTY-SIX shots per game in this series... not 25...

so don't try to be euphemistic and cover up Lebron's stupidity... only someone with a retarded level of hoops acumen shoots 17 times per game in last year's Finals.. :confusedshrug:

i'm dead serious about that.. that is one of the dumbest decisions i've ever seen from any player ever... even i knew it at the time and said as much.
I said 25+

And his efficiency clearly goes down when taking that many shots. And I'm confused... aren't you the one saying 36+ shots is a good thing? Why would you consider that "LeBron's stupidity" if you are commending it in here, and saying he should have done it last year? Stay consistent for christ's sake

[Straight_Ballin]

Lol if bron took 36 shots on heat wade would have looked even more beta. :lol

[3ball]

aren't you the one saying 36+ shots is a good thing? Why would you consider that "LeBron's stupidity" if you are commending it in here, and saying he should have done it last year? Stay consistent for christ's sake


Because he only shot 17 times per game last year - so he was dumb last year.. this year, he apparently got some good advice from someone... someone set him straight.

Maybe someone read my posts across various forums about how he should've shot more and told him so.. Maybe that's why he wised up this year.. I was the only one saying it.. Everyone said I was crazy..

[3ball]

the funniest thing is that you guys see him shooting way more, and it still doesn't make sense to you guys how exactly that works... how lower efficiency > higher efficiency

i get it though... i got it last year.. raw production >>>>>

oh, and high shooting volume from the #1 option results in better offensive rebounding rate for supporting players.. that one's a doozy to explain tho... most of you guys would never get it
.

[livinglegend]

Because he wanted his "stacked" teammates to shoot the ball as well...

Being on a "stacked" team requires less shots.
:roll: :roll:
You are way too funny.

[Magic 32]

It sure is.

But you are dealing with fan boys who have said on this forum that they don't care if Lebron is juicing. It would not hurt his legacy in their eyes.

They would find a way to defend Lebron if he killed a child.

[J Shuttlesworth]

It sure is.

But you are dealing with fan boys who have said on this forum that they don't care if Lebron is juicing. It would not hurt his legacy in their eyes.

They would find a way to defend Lebron if he killed a child.
While 3ball might be a bit crazy, at least he's not a sociopath. You have sick mental problems:

http://i.imgur.com/zxhMSBO.png

3ball, do you feel the same way like this guy?^^^^^^^^

[J Shuttlesworth]

3ball, I'm waiting for a legit response from you. This is the first time i've replied to one of your posts and you've gone completely quiet. Do you actually want LeBron to suffer as a human being like Magic 32? The type of shit where you'd be happy if he got cancer?

[3ball]

3ball, I'm waiting for a legit response from you. This is the first time i've replied to one of your posts and you've gone completely quiet. Do you actually want LeBron to suffer as a human being like Magic 32? The type of shit where you'd be happy if he got cancer?
of course not..

i want lebron to live a long, happy, prosperous life, and i hope his kids and family prosper.

you never hear me say anything bad about lebron personally... i keep it to what he does on the court... there's more than enough material there anyway.

the only annoying thing for me is the team-hopping and the spacing - two MASSIVE advantages for him over guys like Bird, MJ... Can you imagine how many rings Bird and MJ would have if they team-hopped and faced strongsides with less defenders (frequently just 1 strongside defender)??.. :facepalm..

Bird kind of already had a team of all-stars, but MJ... yikes - MJ with spacing AND team-hopping to play with multiple all-stars - i mean, he'd be playing WITH Bird against 1-defender strongsides... Think about that.
.

[J Shuttlesworth]

of course not..

i want lebron to live a long, happy, prosperous life, and i hope his kids and family prosper.

you never hear me say anything bad about lebron personally... i keep it to what he does on the court... there's more than enough material there anyway.

the only annoying thing for me is the team-hopping and the spacing - two MASSIVE advantages for him over guys like Bird, MJ... Can you imagine how many rings Bird and MJ would have if they team-hopped and faced strongsides with less defenders (frequently just 1 strongside defender)??.. :facepalm
That's cool dude. I always figured your beef was for basketball/era reasons. I respect that. I just find it strange that a hater like Magic 32 literally wishes ill will on him as a human being. Pretty psychotic if you ask me. You go a little crazy with some of the MJ/LeBron comparisons, but it's not like you're an actual sociopath. :cheers:

[3ball]

That's cool dude. I always figured your beef was for basketball/era reasons. I respect that.


Cool.

Yeah, I'm realizing my primary gripes against Lebron are his team-hopping and spacing.. Those are his two biggest advantages over other players like Bird or MJ.. Of course, Bird already played with a team of all-stars, but MJ didn't..

What if MJ played with spacing AND team-hopped to play with multiple all-stars?.. Like, he'd be playing WITH Bird against 1-defender strongsides.. :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed:

[3ball]

OP Reposted (due to Shuttlesworth's skillful derail):

Lebron is taking 36 shots per game vs. Warriors.. Last year, he took 17 per game versus Spurs.. :eek:

The low volume allowed the Spurs to play at THEIR pace, control the flow of the game, and eventually run away with it, while Lebron fought back by not shooting.

How much would the Cavs be getting blown out if he only took 17 shots per game THIS year?.. Would the blowout be worse than last year?

How dumb was he to only take 17 shots per game on a top-heavy team last year?... Isn't that one of the dumbest strategic decisions ever?... The facts are there - the Warriors are more talented than the Spurs, yet Lebron is doing better with a worse supporting cast BECAUSE HE'S SHOOTING.
.

[Springsteen]

Maybe having Dwayne Wade who he trusts as a teammate with finals experience and Chris Bosh, both being ball-dominant players, made him share the ball more?

Have you looked at Lebron's shot attempts in games where Kyrie and Love played? :confusedshrug:

[Rose'sACL]

Maimi lost because of defense and not because of offense. I remember lebron scoring 19 points in a quarter on 8/9 shooting and spurs still outscored them in that quarter.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

1-9

[JerrySeinfeld]

If LeBron played like this all the time I'd be a fan of his. Seriously.

It's those moments in the past where he visibly quit on his team in the Finals and just played for his own stats that made it so I couldn't respect him.

[3ball]

Lebron is taking 36 shots per game vs. Warriors.. Last year, he took 17 per game versus Spurs.. :eek:

The low volume allowed the Spurs to play at THEIR pace, control the flow of the game, and eventually run away with it, while Lebron fought back by not shooting.

How much would the Cavs be getting blown out if he only took 17 shots per game again this year instead of 36?.. Would the blowout be worse than last year?

How dumb was he to only take 17 shots per game last year?... Isn't that one of the dumbest strategic decisions ever?... The facts are there - the Warriors are more talented than the Spurs, yet Lebron is doing better with a worse supporting cast BECAUSE HE'S SHOOTING.


No one wants to answer this... No one can say Lebron was dumb.. But he most clearly was

[Hey Yo]

"In two games (both OT) Lebron James already has as many assists and rebounds as Michael Jordan did in the entire 1998 Finals" (6 games.)

[3ball]

"In two games (both OT) Lebron James already has as many assists and rebounds as Michael Jordan did in the entire 1998 Finals" (6 games.)
oooohhhh... nice cherry-picking... just the 1998 Finals.. that's it?

In a span of 1 minute at the end of game 6 of the 1998 Finals, MJ had more clutch than Lebron's entire career.

[Hey Yo]

oooohhhh... nice cherry-picking... just the 1998 Finals.. that's it?

In a span of 1 minute at the end of game 6 of the 1998 Finals, MJ had more clutch than Lebron's entire career.
In which B2B Finals wins did MJ lead his team in MP, scoring, rebounds, assists and steals?

[nashwade]

Kobe-ball never ends well.....

[Dr.J4ever]

When you look at it, the Cavs are playing old school, late 90s early 00s basketball. Lots of isos, using the shot clock, emphasis on physical defense, rebounding, and just pure grit.

So far, with all that modern offense and defense narrative, the Cavs are proving that old school basketball can beat the best of ultra modern basketball.

3ball has good points here.

[3ball]

When you look at it, the Cavs are playing old school, late 90s early 00s basketball. Lots of isos, using the shot clock, emphasis on physical defense, rebounding, and just pure grit.

So far, with all that modern offense and defense narrative, the Cavs are proving that old school basketball can beat the best of ultra modern basketball.

3ball has good points here.
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/64/6494d9a65195279d35717e6d97375037c34660e076011dc05b cc67011a212df0.jpg


And that's the thing - there's no counter to the 1-defender strongside - if MJ played today, there would be nothing preventing him from isolating against a 1-defender strongside on EVERY PLAY.

In Lebron's case, he isolates the most often of any player in the entire league, despite having low isolation efficiency stats.. In regular season, Lebron ranked only 78th out of 350 in isolation PPP, while his FG% ranked 117th out of 350.. In the playoffs, Lebron is 35th out of 40 in isolation PPP, and 30th out of 40 in FG%.

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1&sort=Time&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs

If Lebron can isolate more often than anyone else and find team success despite such low iso efficiency, what impact would MJ's league-leading isolation efficiency have?
.

[Hey Yo]

crickets

[Dr.J4ever]

3ball, the other thing is that lebron is being forced to play this way because of circumstances. What with love and Kyrie out and all.

This is not his natural self. Lebron would rather be this modern Mj/Magic combination. He is not like Jordan or even Kobe who who wants to always take that last shot come hell or high water. He wants to make the right and "efficient play", modern NBA style.

You have a point that Lebron taking all these shots, while forced on him, is turning this series around. That's a good point also about offensive rebounding because AI's 76ers reached the NBA finals on the back of that tactic.

However, the caveat is that to successfully employ this high volume shooting strategy, you have to rebound and play defense.

[3ball]

Lots of isos


Of course, we've been over the fact that previous eras didn't have 1-defender strongsides.. They iso'd, but they didn't have the capacity to create 1-defender strongsides.

1-defender strongsides only exist in today's game, because today's game has the necessary spacing (weakside spacing, which necessitate strongside floods, as NBA TV said on Gametime after Game 2).

[LeBird]

3ball, the other thing is that lebron is being forced to play this way because of circumstances. What with love and Kyrie out and all.

This is not his natural self. Lebron would rather be this modern Mj/Magic combination. He is not like Jordan or even Kobe who who wants to always take that last shot come hell or high water. He wants to make the right and "efficient play", modern NBA style.

You have a point that Lebron taking all these shots, while forced on him, is turning this series around. That's a good point also about offensive rebounding because AI's 76ers reached the NBA finals on the back of that tactic.

However, the caveat is that to successfully employ this high volume shooting strategy, you have to rebound and play defense.

Lebron isn't turning the tide around by being inefficient. It's him+his teammates that hustle hard enough to even the inefficiencies out because none of the others can consistently score. Playing basketball in this manner only has a tactical advantage because it slows the pace of the game down to the point that it feels alien to GSW. It's the finals and there isn't time enough for them to adjust (well, it appears this way right now) but if they ever did they'd murder the Cavs if they just iso the game away. Last year's Spurs would have absolutely murdered this Cavs team.

It's not good basketball. It wasn't when Jordan was doing it, and it was even worse when Kobe was doing it because at least Jordan was super-efficient.

[Dr.J4ever]

Of course, we've been over the fact that previous eras didn't have 1-defender strongsides.. They iso'd, but they didn't have the capacity to create 1-defender strongsides.

1-defender strongsides only exist in today's game, because today's game has the necessary spacing (weakside spacing, which necessitate strongside floods, as NBA TV said on Gametime after Game 2).

Spacing is created by modern offensive thinking.

It was believed by many that you can no longer be efficient ENOUGH to defeat a top tier team playing low efficiency iso ball, but the Cavs are proving that with physical defense and tough rebounding, you can absolutely still play old school iso ball and win today.

This series, if the Cavs maintain this style and remain competitive even if they ultimately lose, could turn upside down many current beliefs about modern basketball and such.

[Dr.J4ever]

Lebron isn't turning the tide around by being inefficient. It's him+his teammates that hustle hard enough to even the inefficiencies out because none of the others can consistently score. Playing basketball in this manner only has a tactical advantage because it slows the pace of the game down to the point that it feels alien to GSW. It's the finals and there isn't time enough for them to adjust (well, it appears this way right now) but if they ever did they'd murder the Cavs if they just iso the game away. Last year's Spurs would have absolutely murdered this Cavs team.

It's not good basketball. It wasn't when Jordan was doing it, and it was even worse when Kobe was doing it because at least Jordan was super-efficient.

Yes, but that's the way the strategy works. You said it yourself that "it feels alien to GSW". That's the whole point. This is late 90s basketball, and it's undeniable.

[ArbitraryWater]

Because he wanted his "stacked" teammates to shoot the ball as well...

Being on a "stacked" team requires less shots.

lol.. this post is hard ether when you think about it.. totally goes against their logic.

[tmacattack33]

Shut up bro.

Lebron is putting up 41.5 ppg (on 40% FG...not great, but not bad for 40 ppg in the Finals...and his TS% is .492 which is decent), 12 rpg, and 8.5 apg

Just enjoy it and stop trying to come up with ridiculous arguments.

[konex]

Nah, the difference is GS is allowing the Cavs to keep it close and have hope unlike the Spurs. Heat stopped believing they could win after gm 3 last year. Cavs totally believe they can win this series...

[FLDFSU]

lol.. this post is hard ether when you think about it.. totally goes against their logic.

This entire season has been a hard ether for them...

From the moment Lebron announced that he was leaving Miami, the same idiots that had been jumping up and down screaming about how historically stacked Miami was, immediately removed the Heat from the the top 4 teams in the very conference they claimed was "historically weak."

According to them, the Heat lost ONE player, and suddenly go from the most stacked team of all time in the weakest conference of all time...to just a top 8 team...

Even after it was discovered the basically the entire 2014 Heat would be back, these same idiots predicted the best the Heat would was the second round.

Funny enough, the Cavs, according to them, suddenly became stacked and became title contenders.

The stupidity of their logic knows no bounds.

[edrick]

While 3ball might be a bit crazy, at least he's not a sociopath. You have sick mental problems:

http://i.imgur.com/zxhMSBO.png

3ball, do you feel the same way like this guy?^^^^^^^^

lol

****ing Magic32, what a piece of shit. :roll:

[LeBird]

Yes, but that's the way the strategy works. You said it yourself that "it feels alien to GSW". That's the whole point. This is late 90s basketball, and it's undeniable.

My point is that it is working simply because GSW aren't as familiar with it and won't have time to acclimatise. That's different to touting it because you think it is good basketball - which I don't think it is in general.

[3ball]

the Cavs are proving... you can absolutely still play old school iso ball and win today.


and isolations are easier to execute today, since today's game has the shooters and weakside spacing to make the strongside clear-out play (1-defender strongside) actually possible.. Today's weakside spacing allows less defenders on the strongside in general.

In previous eras, coaches virtually never cleared out the strongside by putting everyone on the weakside behind the 3-point line... Guys didn't shoot 3-pointers back then, so the strategy wouldn't have effectively threatened the defense; Coaches didn't even THINK to do it..

But 1-defender strongsides are not only standard in today's game, but there's nothing the defense can do to prevent these pure, 100% isolations on the strongside.. :confusedshrug:
.

[NBASTATMAN]

It sure is.

But you are dealing with fan boys who have said on this forum that they don't care if Lebron is juicing. It would not hurt his legacy in their eyes.

They would find a way to defend Lebron if he killed a child.


If Lebron is juicing than he should be banned from the NBA... But isn't IT sad that you are even talking about this... KOBESTANS DONE GONE MAD :mad:

[Magic 32]

I just find it strange that a hater like Magic 32 literally wishes ill will on him as a human being. Pretty psychotic if you ask me.

Wanting bad people to suffer.

What a quaint idea.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Wanting bad people to suffer.

What a quaint idea.
-Supports rapist
-Wants a guy who's most immoral move was "the decision" to suffer

[Magic 32]

-Supports rapist

Prove it or shut it



-Wants a guy who's most immoral move was "the decision" to suffer

Pay more attention to your idol.

I could write a 40 page paper on Lebron as a bad person.

[J Shuttlesworth]

I could write a 40 page paper on Lebron as a bad person.
Because you are insane. Even 3ball wishes health and happiness for LeBron and his family. You have mental issues if you really want to see some basketball player you've never met suffer as a person. Don't quote my posts anymore though. I don't want to be conversing with a sociopath.

[Magic 32]

Because you are insane. Even 3ball wishes health and happiness for LeBron and his family. You have mental issues if you really want to see some basketball player you've never met suffer as a person. Don't quote my posts anymore though. I don't want to be conversing with a sociopath.

Never said he should suffer physical harm, or that the people around should.

But him as a person/ego. Yes. Absolutely.

I want to see his dreams broken every year, because of who he is as a man.

[NBASTATMAN]

Never said he should suffer physical harm, or that the people around should.

But him as a person/ego. Yes. Absolutely.

I want to see his dreams broken every year, because of who he is as a man.



This says more about who you are as a twirp.. :roll:

I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW UNBELIEVABLY ANGRY YOU ARE.. :mad:

[NBASTATMAN]

Because you are insane. Even 3ball wishes health and happiness for LeBron and his family. You have mental issues if you really want to see some basketball player you've never met suffer as a person. Don't quote my posts anymore though. I don't want to be conversing with a sociopath.


Dude didn't sleep all night and really needs to dial that suicide hotline.. I truly hope he is ok... Im not kidding either..

[Magic 32]

Dude didn't sleep all night and really needs to dial that suicide hotline.. .

Again.

Time zones.

Learn about them.

[Magic 32]

This says more about who you are as a twirp.. :roll:


Too bad you can't see the true character of a person.

Shallow appreciation of sports.

You support Lebron and 20 clones of him will follow.

[NBASTATMAN]

Too bad you can't see the true character of a person.

Shallow appreciation of sports.

You support Lebron and 20 clones of him will follow.



You are wishing harm on some athlete and You write that I cannot see the true character of a person.. Well I see through you and it's not nice... I TRULY HOPE THE BEST FOR YOU... All this basketball talk is just fun and games for me... I do find your attitude towards a basketball player very strange and I believe you are in need of medical attention...

GOOD LUCK:rockon:

[oarabbus]

Never said he should suffer physical harm, or that the people around should.

But him as a person/ego. Yes. Absolutely.

I want to see his dreams broken every year, because of who he is as a man.


What a pathetic existence you lead. I say this as a warriors fan.

[ShawkFactory]

Never said he should suffer physical harm, or that the people around should.

But him as a person/ego. Yes. Absolutely.

I want to see his dreams broken every year, because of who he is as a man.
You have no idea who he is as a man.

[Rocketswin2013]

The Heat would've been blown out even more had LeBron chucked bricks leading to long rebounds and San Antonio fast breaks.

[Magic 32]

What a pathetic existence you lead. I say this as a warriors fan.

Makes me think of this....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGWM4spSa34&t=4m24s

[Magic 32]

You have no idea who he is as a man.

It seeps out of him in every interview, every gesture and every moment he is on camera.

Him trying to hide who he is and play his Nelson Mandela "Heal the world" character makes him even more unlikeable.

[funnystuff]

While 3ball might be a bit crazy, at least he's not a sociopath. You have sick mental problems:

http://i.imgur.com/zxhMSBO.png

3ball, do you feel the same way like this guy?^^^^^^^^
hahahahaha, Magic 32 always posting about Bron because he himself knows he's already passed Kobe.


Denial can turn people into sociopaths, easy.

[funnystuff]

Never said he should suffer physical harm, or that the people around should.

But him as a person/ego. Yes. Absolutely.

I want to see his dreams broken every year, because of who he is as a man.
And yet you are giant fan of a RAPIST

:roll: :roll: :roll:


Lebron as a person, is 10x the man Kobe will ever be. If you're religious you can't possibly believe that man is going upstairs right? Kobe is the scum of the earth, good basketball player though.

[Magic 32]

hahahahaha, Magic 32 always posting about Bron because he himself knows he's already passed Kobe.

Denial can turn people into sociopaths, easy.

I have said many times that I have no problem if Duncan, or Durant or even Curry would surpass Kobe on our collective "lists".

This is about not wanting a jerk, a fake and a liar to be succesful.

[funnystuff]

I have said many times that I have no problem if Duncan, or Durant or even Curry would surpass Kobe on our collective "lists".

This is about not wanting a jerk, a fake and a liar to be succesful.
If Lebron is those things, what does that make Kobe? Satan himself?

[Magic 32]

And yet you are giant fan of a RAPIST


I don't deal with hypothetical acts. If this was Bill Cosby with his 50 rape allegations I might listen.

[Magic 32]

If Lebron is those things, what does that make Kobe? Satan himself?

Please enlighten me.

[KingBeasley08]

Please enlighten me.
Kobe raped a girl.

[Magic 32]

Kobe raped a girl.

Trina McKay, the resort's night auditor, said she saw the accuser as she was leaving to go home, and "she did not look or sound as if there had been any problem.

The accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. The accuser was hospitalized as a "danger to herself" four months before the alleged sexual assault.[12] Lindsey McKinney, who lived with the accuser, said the woman twice tried to kill herself at school by overdosing on sleeping pills. Before the alleged incident, the accuser, an aspiring singer, tried out for the television show American Idol with the song "Forgive" by Rebecca Lynn Howard, but failed to advance.

[guy]

3ball is crazy but he's completely right.

[AceManIII]

This is what people wanted to see from LeBron in his "chokejobs"...be aggressive and take over the game.

[Magic 32]

This is what people wanted to see from LeBron in his "chokejobs"...be aggressive and take over the game.

Still choking though.