To all of those people trying to say Lebron didn't just have an amazing game

[tmacattack33]

To all of those people trying to say Lebron didn't just have an amazing game because he took 38 shots:



http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=jordami01&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=Y&round_id=&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=6&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_G=&pos_is_GF=&pos_is_F=&pos_is_FG=&pos_is_FC=&pos_is_C=&pos_is_CF=&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=40&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts


MJ scored 40 points six times in the Finals, as you can see in the link. In 4 of them, he took 35 + shots. I bet you still consider those 4 games legendary though, because it was your boy MJ and not Lebron.


There's this thing called basketball-reference these days. So do your research before trying to talk on here. Only around 7 players have scored 40 in the Finals in the past 30 years....and most of them had similar TS% as Lebron last night.

[sd3035]

2/6

[PP34Deuce]

Cavs defensively were on point with GSW. Limit 3 pointers and out rebound them.

Offensively, they looked ugly. The issue at times was playing MozGof when Bogut was on the bench. Lebron posting out to the 3 point line makes no sense. He actually can guard Green in the post. I expect to see them move Lebron all over the court. Put him at the 4.

[f0und]

winning makes it irrelevant

losing singles it out

and if lebron ends up winning the title, it makes it even more irrelevant. sorry. it may not seem fair but thats just how it goes.

[LikeABosh]

Lebron is set for an all time great series. We saw his jumper start to come back to life in game 1, he's just getting started. He will average 40+ these Finals. Wouldn't be surprised if he scored over 40 in 5 or more games.

[DMAVS41]

Lebron was great overall last night...even with his play late in OT

But...what else do you expect when a great player is single covered for most of the night with soft rules?

Guys like Kobe, Durant, Dirk, Wade, Duncan...etc. would roast people if they were singled like that...especially off switches all night.

Great game? Sure...some historic game....nope

[scandisk_]

Lebron is set for an all time great series. We saw his jumper start to come back to life in game 1, he's just getting started. He will average 40+ these Finals. Wouldn't be surprised if he scored over 40 in 5 or more games.

Yep. Average 40, alienate the team, gas himself early, yeah sure.

[ShawkFactory]

Yea he was pretty fvcking dominant. Don't let a couple haters try to tell you otherwise. He could have scored 10 in OT and won the game and people would be talking about a turnover he had in the second quarter :lol

[hawke812]

To all of those people trying to say Lebron didn't just have an amazing game because he took 38 shots:



http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=jordami01&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=Y&round_id=&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=6&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_G=&pos_is_GF=&pos_is_F=&pos_is_FG=&pos_is_FC=&pos_is_C=&pos_is_CF=&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=40&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts


MJ scored 40 points six times in the Finals, as you can see in the link. In 4 of them, he took 35 + shots. I bet you still consider those 4 games legendary though, because it was your boy MJ and not Lebron.


There's this thing called basketball-reference these days. So do your research before trying to talk on here. Only around 7 players have scored 40 in the Finals in the past 30 years....and most of them had similar TS% as Lebron last night.

Did Lebron win though:confusedshrug:

[tmacattack33]

Lebron was great overall last night...even with his play late in OT

But...what else do you expect when a great player is single covered for most of the night with soft rules?

Guys like Kobe, Durant, Dirk, Wade, Duncan...etc. would roast people if they were singled like that...especially off switches all night.

Great game? Sure...some historic game....nope

A) I'm sure super-star players have been single covered more than 10 times in the last 30 NBA Finals. Yet, we only have seen 10 games where somebody scored 40 + points in the NBA Finals. Single coverage on a super-star does not equate to them scoring 40 points. LOL.

B) You don't double Lebron like you do with shooters like Durant and Dirk, the best double for Lebron is shadowing him, which G State did.

C) Perhaps G State isn't doubling Lebron because has elite passing vision and they don't want him to get 10 + assists. Steve Kerr said this last night...and Steph Curry eluded to it.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

When LeBron fans try to justify his statline by comparing him to MJ, they already lost.

Off the top of my head, I don't remember MJ missing a game winner and then subsequently go scoreless in OT (those 2 points to end the game were meaningless).

:confusedshrug:

[Out_In_Utah]

The 38 shots isn't the issue. The suckage in crunch time was the problem that erased what was otherwise a great game.

[sportjames23]

2/6


Bottom line. Until otherwise, Bron stans need to STFU.

[tmacattack33]

When LeBron fans try to justify his statline by comparing him to MJ, they already lost.

Off the top of my head, I don't remember MJ going missing a game winner and then subsequently go scoreless in OT (those 2 points to end the game were meaningless).

:confusedshrug:

Yes, we lose when we show that Lebron's statline parallels that of the greatest basketball player ever to breathe.

Please explain your rationale behind that.

[navy]

That missed game winner cost it from being a legendary game to a merely a good game. Needed to hit that shot. Only way to beat the Warriors is to play extraordinary. It was obvious they werent winning overtime on the road.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yes, we lose when we show that Lebron's statline parallels that of the greatest basketball player ever to breathe.

Please explain your rationale behind that.
Not all stats are created equal you dope.

Read DMavs' post again, and then the second line of my post. Find the games you linked where MJ was akin to LeBron in crunchtime.

[sd3035]

empty stats, kinda like T-mac

[DMAVS41]

A) I'm sure super-star players have been single covered more than 10 times in the last 30 NBA Finals. Yet, we only have seen 10 games where somebody scored 40 + points in the NBA Finals. Single coverage on a super-star does not equate to them scoring 40 points. LOL.

B) You don't double Lebron like you do with shooters like Durant and Dirk, the best double for Lebron is shadowing him, which G State did.

C) Perhaps G State isn't doubling Lebron because has elite passing vision and they don't want him to get 10 + assists. Steve Kerr said this last night...and Steph Curry eluded to it.

I said he played a great game...not a historic one.

A historic game would have been making the game winner or finishing the game off in OT.

Because he didn't do those things...it remains just a great game.

Like really? Calling it a great game isn't enough?

Also, you also can't cover Durant or Dirk like that because they would score way more efficiently because they are so much better shooters. Lebron still only shot average from range last night.

I'm not gonna sit here and knock Lebron last night because it was a great game and he was clearly the best player on the court.

I'm also not gonna sit here and pretend like it's crazy that an all time great player in his prime dropped 42 points (last 2 doesn't count) on 37 shots while being singled 90% of the time with help coming only at the last second...and having a team gift you wide open shots from range.

[chips93]

Lebron was great overall last night...even with his play late in OT

But...what else do you expect when a great player is single covered for most of the night with soft rules?

Guys like Kobe, Durant, Dirk, Wade, Duncan...etc. would roast people if they were singled like that...especially off switches all night.

Great game? Sure...some historic game....nope

He is being single covered, but they were still giving some help, and its against the best defense in the entire league too, so we have to take that into account too.

[nba_55]

I said he played a great game...not a historic one.

A historic game would have been making the game winner or finishing the game off in OT.

Because he didn't do those things...it remains just a great game.

Like really? Calling it a great game isn't enough?

Also, you also can't cover Durant or Dirk like that because they would score way more efficiently because they are so much better shooters. Lebron still only shot average from range last night.

I'm not gonna sit here and knock Lebron last night because it was a great game and he was clearly the best player on the court. Durant and Dirk were defended the same way in their finals series and they never scored 44 points.

I'm also not gonna sit here and pretend like it's crazy that an all time great player in his prime dropped 42 points (last 2 doesn't count) on 37 shots while being singled 90% of the time with help coming only at the last second...and having a team gift you wide open shots from range.

Talk to me when Dirk or Durant drops 44 points in a finals game. And stop with your hypotheticals, nobody cares about your ''if'',''would'' and blah blah.

[Ne 1]

When LeBron fans try to justify his statline by comparing him to MJ, they already lost.

Off the top of my head, I don't remember MJ missing a game winner and then subsequently go scoreless in OT (those 2 points to end the game were meaningless).

:confusedshrug:
Get out of here with your context. All that matters is muh stats and muh box scores.

[nba_55]

He is being single covered, but they were still giving some help, and its against the best defense in the entire league too, so we have to take that into account too.

Durant and Dirk were defended the same way in their finals series and they never scored 44 points.

[DMAVS41]

Durant and Dirk were defended the same way in their finals series and they never scored 44 points.

Just no.

You need to just give up watching basketball if you think teams would guard Durant/Dirk by giving 5 plus feet of space on range shots.

Lebron is a better player than both of those guys, but just stop it.

He played a great game...he needed to finish it off for it to be historic.

We all know that is the truth...so just stop going nuts.

[nba_55]

Just no.

You need to just give up watching basketball if you think teams would guard Durant/Dirk by giving 5 plus feet of space on range shots.

Lebron is a better player than both of those guys, but just stop it.

He played a great game...he needed to finish it off for it to be historic.

We all know that is the truth...so just stop going nuts.

Why would they give that much space for Durant and Dirk? They are not as good as Lebron going to the rim. Durant and Dirk were guarded 1 on 1 just like Lebron, and they never scored 44 points in the finals.

[DMAVS41]

He is being single covered, but they were still giving some help, and its against the best defense in the entire league too, so we have to take that into account too.

Of course.

That is why it was a great game.

But again...it's not like 42 points on 37 shots should make us all go:

"Oh my god....how is he doing this?????"

This is why Lebron fans are getting really bad. Not only are they ignorant, but horribly biased and annoying as well.

[Droid101]

Durant and Dirk were defended the same way in their finals series and they never scored 44 points.
Are you ****ing for real?

[DMAVS41]

Why would they give that much space for Durant and Dirk? They are not as good as Lebron going to the rim. Durant and Dirk were guarded 1 on 1 just like Lebron, and they never scored 44 points in the finals.

So you admit they are guarded differently. Thank you.

If you can lay off a player like that...it makes help less important because the majority of shots are going to be the shots you want them taking. Hence why the Warriors only helped at the very last second...if at all.

Last night was very rare actually....most teams help in the post far more than that. They wanted Lebron to shoot 40 times and if he's going to score 42 on 37 shots...miss the big shots late and lose....the Warriors will take it every single time.

Hence why it was a great game, but not a historic game.

[Heavincent]

Great game, but it's nothing to go crazy over. 42 points on 37 shots while seeing single coverage the entire game...didn't play very good defense either. The Warriors were clearly trying to make him a volume scorer, and it worked.

Definitely not his fault they lost, but the OP shouldn't be expecting everyone to suck his dick.

[nba_55]

So you admit they are guarded differently. Thank you.

If you can lay off a player like that...it makes help less important because the majority of shots are going to be the shots you want them taking. Hence why the Warriors only helped at the very last second...if at all.

Last night was very rare actually....most teams help in the post far more than that. They wanted Lebron to shoot 40 times and if he's going to score 42 on 37 shots...miss the big shots late and lose....the Warriors will take it every single time.

Hence why it was a great game, but not a historic game.

They were all 3 guarded 1 on 1, that's the point. All 3 players has different weaknesses, so obviously the defender in front of them will defend them differently. Durant and Dirk were defended 1 on 1 and they couldn't score 44 points. And stop with your help less important crap lol. Bogut was waiting the paint atleast 20 seconds each possession for Lebron.

[sd3035]

Amazing is shooting below 50%, taking your team out of the game, and choking down the stretch :lol

[DMAVS41]

Great game, but it's nothing to go crazy over. 42 points on 37 shots while seeing single coverage the entire game...didn't play very good defense either. The Warriors were clearly trying to make him be a volume scorer, and it worked.

Definitely not his fault they lost, but the OP shouldn't be expecting everyone to suck his dick.

Yea. The game of basketball is still basketball...even if it's the finals.

If Lebron fans are really going to have an issue with someone saying it was a great game, but not historic.

Then not only are they a terrible fan base, but don't get the game to begin with.

[MP.Trey]

He had a great game. Hitting that last shot in regulation would have made it amazing.

[Mr Feeny]

44 points in the finals IS incredible. Hasn't been done since Shaq, and this against the best defense in the league.
Who cares what some haters have to say. The majority of sensible basketball fans across the globe see it for what it was - a magnificent performance.

[DMAVS41]

They were all 3 guarded 1 on 1, that's the point. All 3 players has different weaknesses, so obviously the defender in front of them will defend them differently. Durant and Dirk were defended 1 on 1 and they couldn't score 44 points. And stop with your help less important crap lol. Bogut was waiting the paint atleast 20 seconds each possession for Lebron.


I said they were guarded differently. Which you have now conceded. You were the one that said they were guarded the same. I'm glad you've changed your tune.

So what about the exact point total? They also never approached taking 37 shots in a finals game.

And again you are just wrong. Teams almost always double in the post and wing post way more often than last night. Last night the Warriors stuck to their game plan regardless of outcome...which was single Lebron and help only at the last second if possible.

Take away the 3's and try to keep everyone off the offensive glass.

These players are amazing....these guys in their primes...if you are going to give them 37 shots on 90% single coverage in a game...doesn't matter if it's in the finals or not...they are going to score a shit ton of points unless they are off.

My point wasn't to compare them directly...it was a comment about how great offensive players getting covered like Lebron did last night are going to score a lot. Which they just will...

[catch24]

Great performance, but not "spectacular" or "UNREAL" like some of the casuals are saying.

His missed game-winner, and scoreless overtime put a damper on it.

[nba_55]

I said they were guarded differently. Which you have now conceded. You were the one that said they were guarded the same. I'm glad you've changed your tune.

So what about the exact point total? They also never approached taking 37 shots in a finals game.

And again you are just wrong. Teams almost always double in the post and wing post way more often than last night. Last night the Warriors stuck to their game plan regardless of outcome...which was single Lebron and help only at the last second if possible.

Take away the 3's and try to keep everyone off the offensive glass.

These players are amazing....these guys in their primes...if you are going to give them 37 shots on 90% single coverage in a game...doesn't matter if it's in the finals or not...they are going to score a shit ton of points unless they are off.

My point wasn't to compare them directly...it was a comment about how great offensive players getting covered like Lebron did last night are going to score a lot. Which they just will...

I haven't concede shit LOL. You responded to poster who was talking about Lebron being single covered. And you said you can't defend like dirk and durant like that. And i clearly said all 3 ( lebron, dirk and durant) were single covered. And no, teams doesn't always almost double the post. Stop making up things. Durant and Dirk didn't get doubled when they posted up.

[DMAVS41]

Great performance, but not "spectacular" or "UNREAL" like some of the casuals are saying.

His missed game-winner, and scoreless overtime put a damper on it.

Exactly.

Why is everyone on the Lebron side ignoring the missed game winner and the complete no show in OT?

If he makes that game winner...then it's a historic game.

If he shows up in OT and plays great...then it's a historic game.


42 points on 37 shots while being singled and given 5 feet of space on range shoots...missing a game winner...and no showing OT and losing...that is not a
"Oh my God"...how is he doing this moment.

Simple as that.

[HurricaneKid]

LeBron really wasn't that great all things considered. But LOL at "single coverage no help". There was almost ALWAYS help at the rim. It was so apparent that GS got called for illegal D. Its where ALL those Mozzy dunks originated.

[sd3035]

Bricking a game winner and disappearing in OT capped off his mediocre inefficient chucking game

[nba_55]

I said they were guarded differently. Which you have now conceded. You were the one that said they were guarded the same. I'm glad you've changed your tune.

So what about the exact point total? They also never approached taking 37 shots in a finals game.

And again you are just wrong. Teams almost always double in the post and wing post way more often than last night. Last night the Warriors stuck to their game plan regardless of outcome...which was single Lebron and help only at the last second if possible.

Take away the 3's and try to keep everyone off the offensive glass.

These players are amazing....these guys in their primes...if you are going to give them 37 shots on 90% single coverage in a game...doesn't matter if it's in the finals or not...they are going to score a shit ton of points unless they are off.

My point wasn't to compare them directly...it was a comment about how great offensive players getting covered like Lebron did last night are going to score a lot. Which they just will...

Durant was covered like that against Memphis when westbrook went down and guess what happened? :lol

[DMAVS41]

I haven't concede shit LOL. You responded to poster who was talking about Lebron being single covered. And you said you can't defend like dirk and durant like that. And i clearly said all 3 ( lebron, dirk and durant) were single covered. And no, teams doesn't always almost double the post. Stop making up things. Durant and Dirk didn't get doubled when they posted up.

You said they were guarded exactly the same. Which they weren't.

Teams absolutely give more help in the post than last night. Again...you need to watch basketball more.

Last time I can think of prime Dirk getting 1 on 1 coverage start to finish like Lebron did last night? It's when he went for 48 points on 15 shots against Ibaka in the 11 WCF.

Again...it's not to directly compare these players. I gladly admit Lebron is better than both of those guys.

It's about acknowledging that the team Lebron played last night...wanted him to take 40 shots...and they were happy to see him score the way he did. It wasn't efficient or dominant enough for them to change their defense.

And you are ignoring the reason it wasn't a historic game. It's not because how Lebron was covered....it wasn't historic because he missed the game winner and wet the bed in OT.

Sorry, but that matters if you want to put the "historic" label on a game.

[TheMarkMadsen]

They never even doubled him.

Guys like Kobe & Jordan were getting double and triple teams whenever they touched the ball. Especially Kobe in 08

It's insane to play man up on a superstar all game.. But it worked..

Kerr is basically saying that he's more afraid of the Cavs shooters than what Lebron can do man on man against Iggy..

Very interesting

[nba_55]

They never even doubled him.

Guys like Kobe & Jordan were getting double and triple teams whenever they touched the ball. Especially Kobe in 08

It's insane to play man up on a superstar all game.. But it worked..

Kerr is basically saying that he's more afraid of the Cavs shooters than what Lebron can do man on man against Iggy..

Very interesting

Yeah right :durantunimpressed: .

[navy]

They never even doubled him.

Guys like Kobe & Jordan were getting double and triple teams whenever they touched the ball. Especially Kobe in 08

It's insane to play man up on a superstar all game.. But it worked..

Kerr is basically saying that he's more afraid of the Cavs shooters than what Lebron can do man on man against Iggy..

Very interesting
This isnt true. When it came down to it they decided to start sending help which is why Mozgov got so many looks late in the fourth and in overtime.

[DMAVS41]

They never even doubled him.

Guys like Kobe & Jordan were getting double and triple teams whenever they touched the ball. Especially Kobe in 08

It's insane to play man up on a superstar all game.. But it worked..

Kerr is basically saying that he's more afraid of the Cavs shooters than what Lebron can do man on man against Iggy..

Very interesting

It's all about keeping Lebron from getting guys in foul trouble. Lebron's shot has been so broke all playoffs...it's the perfect strategy.

Give him a huge cushion to keep from driving, stay home on 3 point shooters, only help at the last second in the post or on drives to not give up too many offensive boards.

Regardless of the debate here.

You ask any Warriors player or coach...they will tell you that they'll gladly take Lebron scoring 42 on 37 shots while wearing down late.

[nba_55]

You said they were guarded exactly the same. Which they weren't.

Teams absolutely give more help in the post than last night. Again...you need to watch basketball more.

Last time I can think of prime Dirk getting 1 on 1 coverage start to finish like Lebron did last night? It's when he went for 48 points on 15 shots against Ibaka in the 11 WCF.

Again...it's not to directly compare these players. I gladly admit Lebron is better than both of those guys.

It's about acknowledging that the team Lebron played last night...wanted him to take 40 shots...and they were happy to see him score the way he did. It wasn't efficient or dominant enough for them to change their defense. Durant was also single convered like Lebron against Memphis when Westbrook went down, and he struggled. He had the opportunity to shoot 37 times and put his team on his shoulder and we know what happened.

And you are ignoring the reason it wasn't a historic game. It's not because how Lebron was covered....it wasn't historic because he missed the game winner and wet the bed in OT.

Sorry, but that matters if you want to put the "historic" label on a game.

I was referring to the single covered post that you responded. So, I still haven't conceded anything, nice try trying to make yourself look good.
They were all 3 single covered with help defense. Last time i remember prime dirk being single convered like that was in 2011 finals and he never scored 44 points. He was also single convered like that in 2006 finals and he wasn't as great as Lebron.

[dynasty1978]

It was a very good game, not an all-timer.

Kobe had 40, 8, and 8 (on similar shooting, 16-34) in game 1 of the 09 finals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQhhYPc0MCY

Yet, I wouldn't consider that anything historic, even with LA winning the game.

[DMAVS41]

I was referring to the single covered post that you responded.
They were all 3 single covered with help defense. Last time i remember prime dirk being single convered like that was in 2011 finals and he never scored 44 points. He was also single convered like that in 2006 finals and he wasn't as great as Lebron.

Last night was not the norm. If you don't get that...you don't get basketball.

Dirk also never took 37 shots. Never close to that. Part of that is him being worse than Lebron in terms of creating his own shot...and part of that is that another team would never switch a pick and roll with Dirk and leave a mismatch on an island from start to finish in a game the way the Warriors did last night.

But again, that isn't why it wasn't a historic game.

It wasn't a historic game because Lebron missed the game winner and wet the bed in OT. Sorry if you don't like reality....

[TheMarkMadsen]

This isnt true. When it came down to it they decided to start sending help which is why Mozgov got so many looks late in the fourth and in overtime.

Which was late in the 4th & OT..

So when they finally doubled him, he didnt do shit..

[nba_55]

Last night was not the norm. If you don't get that...you don't get basketball.

Dirk also never took 37 shots. Never close to that. Part of that is him being worse than Lebron in terms of creating his own shot...and part of that is that another team would never switch a pick and roll with Dirk and leave a mismatch on an island from start to finish in a game the way the Warriors did last night.

But again, that isn't why it wasn't a historic game.

It wasn't a historic game because Lebron missed the game winner and wet the bed in OT. Sorry if you don't like reality....

You like writing huge block of texts meaning nothing and repeating the same shit over and over again. You don't anything about basketball. All you do is talk in hypotheticals. ''If that happened, that would have happened... blah blah blah''. Dude, nobody cares about your predictions. Facts say that Durant and Dirk never scored 44 points in a finals game, they were single covered like Lebron.

[DMAVS41]

Which was late in the 4th & OT..

So when they finally doubled him, he didnt do shit..

I was just about to post this.

When they finally started to play more traditional defense....Lebron didn't do anything.

Not completely his fault or anything, but the fact that you guys admit the defense changed late proves that we are right.

Admitting the defense changed validates everything we've been saying. And even then...it wasn't hard doubles. It changed from single coverage island defense 90% of the time to a more traditional weak side / doubling help from Bogut. They still stayed home on the shooters outside a couple mistakes.

[G0ATbe]

Typical bald fans. Bragging about losing:facepalm

[Jacks3]

It was a very good game, not an all-timer.

Kobe had 40, 8, and 8 (on similar shooting, 16-34) in game 1 of the 09 finals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQhhYPc0MCY

Yet, I wouldn't consider that anything historic, even with LA winning the game.

Except Kobe played a defense that was significantly better statistically and his efficiency (53.3% TS/124 ORTG) was much better than LeBron's (51.8% TS/104 ORTG). He also had a much better defensive game.

So nah. They're not really close.

[DMAVS41]

You like writing huge block of texts meaning nothing and repeating the same shit over and over again. You don't anything about basketball. All you do is talk in hypotheticals. ''If that happened, that would have happened... blah blah blah''. Dude, nobody cares about your predictions. Facts say that Durant and Dirk never scored 44 points in a finals game, they were single covered like Lebron.

And you like shifting the goal posts.

We can ignore all that.

It wasn't a historic game because your boy settled for a bad game winner (got lucky as he went way too early and it could have cost them) that missed and then did absolutely nothing in OT.

And what changed? Oh yea...the Warriors started playing more traditional defense against a superstar late and in OT. Shocking...

[nba_55]

Except Kobe played a defense that was significantly better statistically and his efficiency (53.3% TS/124 ORTG) was much better than LeBron's (51.8% TS/104 ORTG). He also had a much better defensive game.

So nah. They're not really close.

He also had a much better team around team, a much better coach, a much better offensive system and a less talented opponent. Lebron averaged 38, 8, 8 in a whole series against that team.

[tmacattack33]

I said he played a great game...not a historic one.

A historic game would have been making the game winner or finishing the game off in OT.

Because he didn't do those things...it remains just a great game.

Like really? Calling it a great game isn't enough?

Also, you also can't cover Durant or Dirk like that because they would score way more efficiently because they are so much better shooters. Lebron still only shot average from range last night.

I'm not gonna sit here and knock Lebron last night because it was a great game and he was clearly the best player on the court.

I'm also not gonna sit here and pretend like it's crazy that an all time great player in his prime dropped 42 points (last 2 doesn't count) on 37 shots while being singled 90% of the time with help coming only at the last second...and having a team gift you wide open shots from range.

That's what I said.

A team wouldn't double Lebron like they would with Durant. When you double Lebron or a slasher like Wade, you shadow him. You place a defender behind the primary defender who sits there in case Lebron blows by the primary defender. Because these guys are slashers and not a jump shooters.


And I didn't say it was legendary. I said it was an amazing game. An A-minus. If he hit the game winner it would be legendary.

[ImKobe]

shot 3-14 while being guarded by Iguodala

completely disappeared in the last 3 minutes of the 4th + entire OT (discarding that useless basket in the end with no one guarding anyone because the game was over).

6 assists, 4 turnovers, 38 shot attempts

he played into Golden State's hand in the end and resorted to jump shots that were bricks left and right. tie game at the end of the 4th and he goes for a step back jumper with Iggy draped all over him instead of trying to back him down and charge inside to at least get a call.

Kobe took 34 shots 6 years ago in his Game 1 of the Finals. Guess what, he also distributed the ball and had 8 assists to 1 turnover and his team won comfortably as a result with his 2nd guy only going for 16 points.

Lebron has 44 and gets an efficient game from Irving, who played well on both ends and he still couldn't win the game..

This series is over. You're not going to see Lebron shoot 35+ times a game and shoot above 40% every time, his shot outside the paint is very inconsistent and the way Golden State's defending him, he ain't going to be able to break that defense apart.

[nba_55]

And you like shifting the goal posts.

We can ignore all that.

It wasn't a historic game because your boy settled for a bad game winner (got lucky as he went way too early and it could have cost them) that missed and then did absolutely nothing in OT.

And what changed? Oh yea...the Warriors started playing more traditional defense against a superstar late and in OT. Shocking...

Our discussion was about Durant and Dirk putting 44 points being single covered in the finals. You just shifted the goal post.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Westbrook had 43/6/6 on a 21-32 shooting....in the 2012 Finals G4

I've never seen him get praised for it

[nba_55]

Westbrook had 43/6/6 on a 21-32 shooting....in the 2012 Finals G4

I've never seen him get praised for it

He was great in a that game, great performance by westbrook.

Now you have seen it.

[DMAVS41]

shot 3-14 while being guarded by Iguodala

completely disappeared in the last 3 minutes of the 4th + entire OT (discarding that useless basket in the end with no one guarding anyone because the game was over).

this is why raw stats are so bad...just counting up points.

Lebron had a 104 ortg last night. that is not good. it's actually kind of bad....made worse by dominating the ball and possessions so much.

104 ortg, does nothing late, misses the game winner, does nothing in OT.

But yea....it was a historic game! :facepalm

[LikeABosh]

this is why raw stats are so bad...just counting up points.

Lebron had a 104 ortg last night. that is not good. it's actually kind of bad....made worse by dominating the ball and possessions so much.

104 ortg, does nothing late, misses the game winner, does nothing in OT.

But yea....it was a historic game! :facepalm
Jesus Christ just get a life. Go outside.

[Jacks3]

By true shooting %, Gm1 was LeBron's 2nd-least efficient 40-pt gm (out of 68). 3rd-lowest by anyone last 30 playoffs.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGwGXMSXIAA-Flw.png

all-time performance doe.

[DMAVS41]

Our discussion was about Durant and Dirk putting 44 points being single covered in the finals. You just shifted the goal post.

Not it wasn't.

I said guys like that, I mentioned others, would roast people if they were covered like that.

Which any basketball fan that knows shit...knows is the case.

You are the one that shifted the goal posts.

I don't blame you...a 104 ortg and falling apart late and in OT doesn't it make your side easy to debate.

[nba_55]

Jesus Christ just get a life. Go outside.

Dude got mad because people are not willing to stroke his huge ego and concede to his opinions and his hypothetical predictions. :oldlol:

[nba_55]

Not it wasn't.

I said guys like that, I mentioned others, would roast people if they were covered like that.

Which any basketball fan that knows shit...knows is the case.

You are the one that shifted the goal posts.

I don't blame you...a 104 ortg and falling apart late and in OT doesn't it make your side easy to debate.

Come back to me when you got facts. Keep your hypothetical predictions to yourself, they are worth nothing.

[sd3035]

this is why raw stats are so bad...just counting up points.

Lebron had a 104 ortg last night. that is not good. it's actually kind of bad....made worse by dominating the ball and possessions so much.

104 ortg, does nothing late, misses the game winner, does nothing in OT.

But yea....it was a historic game! :facepalm

By true shooting %, Gm1 was LeBron's 2nd-least efficient 40-pt gm (out of 68). 3rd-lowest by anyone last 30 playoffs.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGwGXMSXIAA-Flw.png

all-time performance doe.

This tells you all you need to know

[3ball]

.
Lebron didn't do enough considering he faced 1-defender strongsides on every play (as seen below) - but horrible moves & shooting touch led to choking late in 4th or overtime:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/XIjX_w.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/P5Zone.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/I7p0lg.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/xUCd0U.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/CU5j5S.gif

http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/1e79dc71a542600a777d78638e6a7e69.gif


A main objective of today's spacing is to reduce the number of strongside defenders by using weakside floor-spreaders to draw them away.. 1-defender strongsides are THE STANDARD, as seen above, which necessitates something called "strongside flooding", where defenders are flooded back to the strongside, after initially being drawn away by weakside floor-spreaders.

Previous eras didn't have spacing, so there were no weakside floor-spreaders to draw defenders away - defenders stayed on the strongside.. With defenders already on the strongside, floods weren't necessary - the strongside remained perpetually flooded with 4-5 defenders (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11128077&postcount=21) on every possession, a stark contrast from today's standard of 1-defender strongsides, as seen above.

Despite facing less defenders on the strongside than previous eras, Lebron take poor advantage of the porous defense - Lebron ranked only 78th out of 350 in isolation PPP, while his FG% ranked 117th out of 350.. In the playoffs, Lebron is 35th out of 40 in isolation PPP, and 30th out of 40 in FG%..

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1&sort=Time&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs

However, despite his low isolation stats, Lebron leads the league in isolation frequency - he isolates more often than any other player.. If the Cavs can find team success with Lebron isolating so often at such a low rate of efficiency, than what kind of impact would MJ's league-leading isolation efficiency have against today's 1-defender strongsides?

[Young X]

He didn't have an amazing game. It would've been amazing if he hit that gamewinner at the end of regulation but he missed and did nothing but brick and turn the ball over in OT.

He ended up with 44 pts and 6 assists while using 46+ possessions to do it in a loss. There's nothing amazing about that. He had a great game but not amazing. Harden's game 2 and 4 against this same team were amazing.

[DMAVS41]

Come back to me when you got facts. Keep your hypothetical predictions to yourself, they are worth nothing.

I do have facts.

Someone just posted all the iso's and there was virtually no help on all of them.

Facts?

Lebron had a 104 ortg last night. That is not good. He had one of the lowest TS% in the last 30 years on a 40 point game in the playoffs.

He struggled late, missed a game winner, and no showed in OT.

Again...despite all that, it was a great game given the circumstances.

Just not a historic one.

[nba_55]

I do have facts.

Someone just posted all the iso's and there was virtually no help on all of them.

Facts?

Lebron had a 104 ortg last night. That is not good. He had one of the lowest TS% in the last 30 years on a 40 point game in the playoffs.

He struggled late, missed a game winner, and no showed in OT.

Again...despite all that, it was a great game given the circumstances.

Just not a historic one.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Thanks for proving how big of an idiot you are and how you don't anything about basketball.

[ImKobe]

this is why raw stats are so bad...just counting up points.

Lebron had a 104 ortg last night. that is not good. it's actually kind of bad....made worse by dominating the ball and possessions so much.

104 ortg, does nothing late, misses the game winner, does nothing in OT.

But yea....it was a historic game! :facepalm

Agreed.

Actually, 104 ORTG is not THAT bad, but it's not going to be enough against Golden State.

Let's be honest, Cavs probably played the best defense they're going to play in this series, Curry was pretty much a non-threat from outside and no one went off on them, James got burned on D a couple times, his off-ball defense is very overrated. He can obviously defend on-ball with his physical attributes and IQ, but he isn't going to be able to do everything well.

But another thing, we shouldn't EXPECT LeBron to carry his team to a title vs the Warriors. I picked the Warriors and I told y'all exactly how they were going to play him. I said they would let him get his 40 points as long as they made sure his teammates didn't get wide open looks/easy opportunities.

Lebron has been a very consistent 25-30 point scorer all his career, but that has a lot to do with him being a threat to get his teammates wide open shots and the athleticism at his size and weight. He is no longer that athletic and his weak fundamentals are showing. He doesn't have the scoring skillset of a Kobe or a Jordan, he never did... people love to bring up his raw numbers and averages, but the eye test doesn't lie.

So once again, we shouldn't expect him to play better and we shouldn't expect him to win the series. This is pretty much like last year against the Spurs, except the Warriors are even more athletic and their shooters can be even more deadlier. Same shit, different year. They ALLOW him to score the amount of points he did because as long as the TEAM isn't going off and the Warriors are able to put points on them on the other end, Lebron's stat line does not matter. No one's going to bring up Lebron's 2014 Finals series to say "look, this is why he should be considered one of the GOATs". It's just like how the Pistons played Shaq in the 2004 Finals. They let him get easy looks and score as long as the other players didn't get theirs because Shaq wasn't a closer, and neither is Lebron. The "Chosen One" once again turned into "The Frozen One" when it was winning time. 0 points the entire overtime up until no one gave fukks and he went for the layup like it mattered anything :roll: :roll:

[DMAVS41]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Thanks for proving how big of an idiot you are and how you don't anything about basketball.

Yep.

He got singled virtually the entire game and they only helped at the last second.

104 ortg (not good at all), one of the lowest TS% on a 40 point playoff game in 30 years (not good at all), poor shot selection late, missed game winner, and no shows OT.

What else did I miss?

Oh yea...average defense at best all night.

Historic game? GTFO you clown...

[nba_55]

Yep.

He got singled virtually the entire game and they only helped at the last second.

104 ortg (not good at all), one of the lowest TS% on a 40 point playoff game in 30 years (not good at all), poor shot selection late, missed game winner, and no shows OT.

What else did I miss?

Oh yea...average defense at best all night.

Historic game? GTFO you clown...

Hey,

Thanks for proving how big of an idiot you are and how you don't anything about basketball.

It was nice finding out how big of a idiot you are. :applause: :applause:

[ImKobe]

He was great in a that game, great performance by westbrook.

Now you have seen it.

Up until he intentionally fouled Chalmers after the jump ball when IIRC it was a 3-point game with 5 seconds on the shot clock and more than enough time left in the game for the Thunder to go for the tie, but the foul sealed the game for Miami.

[DMAVS41]

Hey,

Thanks for proving how big of an idiot you are and how you don't anything about basketball.

It was nice finding out how big of a idiot you are. :applause: :applause:

that isn't an argument.

it's an ad hominem attack with no substance behind it as you've clearly lost the debate.

do you really think teams normally cover Lebron like that?

ROFL....take the L

[nba_55]

that isn't an argument.

it's an ad hominem attack with no substance behind it as you've clearly lost the debate.

do you really think teams normally cover Lebron like that?

ROFL....take the L

Thanks for proving how big of an idiot you are and how you don't anything about basketball.
:applause: :applause:

[DMAVS41]

Agreed.

Actually, 104 ORTG is not THAT bad, but it's not going to be enough against Golden State.

Let's be honest, Cavs probably played the best defense they're going to play in this series, Curry was pretty much a non-threat from outside and no one went off on them, James got burned on D a couple times, his off-ball defense is very overrated. He can obviously defend on-ball with his physical attributes and IQ, but he isn't going to be able to do everything well.

But another thing, we shouldn't EXPECT LeBron to carry his team to a title vs the Warriors. I picked the Warriors and I told y'all exactly how they were going to play him. I said they would let him get his 40 points as long as they made sure his teammates didn't get wide open looks/easy opportunities.

Lebron has been a very consistent 25-30 point scorer all his career, but that has a lot to do with him being a threat to get his teammates wide open shots and the athleticism at his size and weight. He is no longer that athletic and his weak fundamentals are showing. He doesn't have the scoring skillset of a Kobe or a Jordan, he never did... people love to bring up his raw numbers and averages, but the eye test doesn't lie.

So once again, we shouldn't expect him to play better and we shouldn't expect him to win the series. This is pretty much like last year against the Spurs, except the Warriors are even more athletic and their shooters can be even more deadlier. Same shit, different year. They ALLOW him to score the amount of points he did because as long as the TEAM isn't going off and the Warriors are able to put points on them on the other end, Lebron's stat line does not matter. No one's going to bring up Lebron's 2014 Finals series to say "look, this is why he should be considered one of the GOATs". It's just like how the Pistons played Shaq in the 2004 Finals. They let him get easy looks and score as long as the other players didn't get theirs because Shaq wasn't a closer, and neither is Lebron. The "Chosen One" once again turned into "The Frozen One" when it was winning time. 0 points the entire overtime up until no one gave fukks and he went for the layup like it mattered anything :roll: :roll:

A 104 ortg is definitely subpar for a superstar having a supposed "historic offensive game"

I don't think we should expect Lebron to win. Never said that at all.

All I said was this:

He had a great game, but not a historic one.

[DMAVS41]

Thanks for proving how big of an idiot you are and how you don't anything about basketball.
:applause: :applause:

Found this online within 1 second:

The Warriors' strategy for defending James seems to be to stay home on shooters and let him score as much as he can. If the three-pointers are falling, the plan might backfire, as it did in February. But if they aren't -- and they haven't in the playoffs, where James came in averaging 17 percent before going 2-for-8 -- and it's a great way to take the role players out of the equation.

Guess we all don't know the game and we were watching a different version of reality last night...right?

[nba_55]

Found this online within 1 second:

The Warriors' strategy for defending James seems to be to stay home on shooters and let him score as much as he can. If the three-pointers are falling, the plan might backfire, as it did in February. But if they aren't -- and they haven't in the playoffs, where James came in averaging 17 percent before going 2-for-8 -- and it's a great way to take the role players out of the equation.

Guess we all don't know the game and we were watching a different version of reality last night...right?

Damn, you got such a big ego. Give up. It's not working. :oldlol: :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Damn, you got such a big ego. Give up. It's not working. :oldlol: :oldlol:
That's not an argument. Refute what he is saying, little guy. :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

That missed game winner cost it from being a legendary game to a merely a good game. Needed to hit that shot. Only way to beat the Warriors is to play extraordinary. It was obvious they werent winning overtime on the road.

this

A possible amazing game, turned to somewhere between good and great.

This mofo posts up and attacks all night, then per usual decides to take dumb J's & fades at the buzzer

[Mr Feeny]

It was a very good game, not an all-timer.

Kobe had 40, 8, and 8 (on similar shooting, 16-34) in game 1 of the 09 finals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQhhYPc0MCY

Yet, I wouldn't consider that anything historic, even with LA winning the game.

In other words, Kobe had a worse shooting percentage and couldn't top 40 points, never mind hit that 44 mark? Alright:cheers:

[DMAVS41]

Since when did Lebron fans only care about points?

The whole narrative his fans have been spewing for years was that he didn't play like Kobe. He goes out and has a very Kobe like game (Kobe as a pure scorer is better than Lebron) and they want to go absolutely nuts about said game.

Don't think that lines up that well.

[kamil]

He played great until it mattered most. Typical LeBron*

[The Iron Fist]

Didn't shoot 50%. Ineffective chucker.