Cleveland giving max deals to both Thompson and Love?

[Eric Cartman]

Want insight from real Cavs fans on this, not lechoke nut riders.

Non-lediva stans are welcomed to chime in as well :cheers:

[DMAVS41]

They should.

[Akrazotile]

As an objective cavs die-hard, I think the Cavs should definitely spend the max for each one of these role players. Both are extremely deficient in their own ways, but together they basically combine to be the equivalent of a good role player, which is the least the cavs can do to give Lebron a littl help.

[Rooster]

Want insight from real Cavs fans on this, not lechoke nut riders.

Non-lediva stans are welcomed to chime in as well :cheers:

It's too early but if it's true Thompson gambled on himself and won.

[AlphaWolf24]

IMO they are better without Love...

Faster , and better defensively...:confusedshrug:

[El Gato Negro]

Realistically love already said he is opting in for sixteen mill next year, he wants to wait for the cap to go up like bran before he signs long term, more money. TT will get close to max my guess is around 15 to 16 million. If he gets the max like kyrie did it could be up to 17 mill a year. Unlike bran and love who when they make their long term deals will get 20+. So bottom line when the cap explodes kyrie and TTs contracts will look like steals.

[Eric Cartman]

IMO they are better without Love...

Faster , and better defensively...:confusedshrug:
Return of the mack :rockon:

[Nash]

man, cavs should've just given Tristan his money.

[fragokota]

They can't afford to lose Love, not after giving up Wiggins for him. They def gotta sign him and later on they can trade his ass.

[DMAVS41]

IMO they are better without Love...

Faster , and better defensively...:confusedshrug:

The problem is that it's going to be really hard to add anything if they lose Love.

Now, they have that Haywood contract to make a trade, but outside of that they really won't have much to work with.

I agree that Love might not be essential, but he's likely their safest bet to contend for titles for the next 5 years. With the East as weak as it currently is and you can lock up Lebron, Kyrie, and Love...you just have to do it in my opinion.

[RedBlackAttack]

They'll both get whatever they want. I think Tristan will get $14-15 million a year which, quite frankly, is fine with me considering the way he's playing and the way he seems to be growing with every game. The guy is only 24.

Love is a max guy, easily. It's all a matter of whether or not he wants to take it. I'm guessing he's going to opt-in to his last year and then sign the max when it shoots through the roof next year.

Tristan is going to be a Cavalier for life. I have no doubt about that. I hope Love does the same, but I'm not as sure.

[HurricaneKid]

man, cavs should've just given Tristan his money.

He turned down a 4/52M offer before the season started.

I'm not sure he is worth more than that.

[El Gato Negro]

What most people who don't watch the cavs don't know is TT and love played on the floor together alot this year with TT playing center with good results.

[fragokota]

He turned down a 4/52M offer before the season started.

I'm not sure he is worth more than that.

:biggums:

The guy either has some confidence in himself or a genious manager.

[RedBlackAttack]

IMO they are better without Love...

Faster , and better defensively...:confusedshrug:
I don't understand this logic. How are you better by having fewer options? The greatest thing about having Love and Tristan and Mozgov and Varejao is the sheer number of lineups, matchups and rotations you can put together. You can also keep guys completely fresh and endure injury issues, etc.

Sure, TT has been great in these playoffs... but why not have TT and Love? Hell, the Cavs were finishing games in the last couple months before Love's injury with TT and Kevin on the floor together. They really compliment one another well.

The other thing is that losing Love doesn't mean he can be replaced with other pieces. The Cavs are still going to be way over the cap and in the luxury tax. They're in a position where they have to pay the guys that they currently have under contract, because they have no free agency flexibility at all whether he's here or not.

[Mawly-G]

Cavs should max out Thompson, and sign & trade Love for LMA.

[DukeDelonte13]

cavs and Rich Paul are both going to wait and see what other teams offer Tristan. Cavs aren't going to negotiate against themselves and offer more money before another team does.

[RedBlackAttack]

He turned down a 4/52M offer before the season started.

I'm not sure he is worth more than that.
He's absolutely worth more than that based on the way he has played in these playoffs... and you want to pay the guys that you know will be at their best this time of year. We now know that Tristan is a serious gamer when the heat kicks up.

He's likely getting $15 million a year.

[SilkkTheShocker]

cavs and Rich Paul are both going to wait and see what other teams offer Tristan. Cavs aren't going to negotiate against themselves and offer more money before another team does.

Don't fool yourself, he is getting close to max money. He has been the 2nd most consistent Cavalier during this playoff run, and his LeBron's boy. Cavs aren't going to entertain not going directly to the negotiating table.

[RedBlackAttack]

Cavs should max out Thompson, and sign & trade Love for LMA.
No thanks. Love is a better offensive fit and he's a lot younger than LMA. Aldridge is obviously a more talented defensive player, but he can't stretch the floor like Love and isn't as good a passer/rebounder.

Give me Love over LMA for sure.

[DukeDelonte13]

Don't fool yourself, he is getting close to max money. He has been the 2nd most consistent Cavalier during this playoff run, and his LeBron's boy. Cavs aren't going to entertain not going directly to the negotiating table.



He's a RFA meaning the cavs have his rights. They will sit back and match whatever offer comes his way.

[fragokota]

No thanks. Love is a better offensive fit and he's a lot younger than LMA. Aldridge is obviously a more talented defensive player, but he can't stretch the floor like Love and isn't as good a passer/rebounder.

Give me Love over LMA for sure.

Agreed, but you could consider trading him for two solid players coming off the bench if he continues not to fit with the team.

[SilkkTheShocker]

He's a RFA meaning the cavs have his rights. They will sit back and match whatever offer comes his way.

I know. But it's not going to be a sit around and wait it out game. LeBron is going to make them get the contract done.

[RedBlackAttack]

Agreed, but you could consider trading him for two solid players coming off the bench if he continues not to fit with the team.
See, I thought Love was fitting in really well just prior to the injury. For about the previous month and in the first two playoff games, he was pretty awesome. The Cavs' offensive and defensive rating was off the charts with Love and Thompson on the floor together.

If Love wants to be here, the Cavs wouldn't even consider trading him.

It will be up to Kevin. If he leaves and we could somehow orchestrate a S&T for LMA, I'd be all for it. But, given the choice I think Kevin is a better fit and just a better all-around player. If Kevin leaves, I'm sure they'll come up with some plan ... but he will be basically impossible to replace.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Tristan Thompson is going to make guys like Ibaka look like a steal for a contract....

[Mawly-G]

No thanks. Love is a better offensive fit and he's a lot younger than LMA. Aldridge is obviously a more talented defensive player, but he can't stretch the floor like Love and isn't as good a passer/rebounder.

Give me Love over LMA for sure.
What about a sign & trade for Ryan Anderson & Omir Asik?

[El Gato Negro]

Pretty much any team that gets young talent locked up now before the cap jump is going to win big in the long run. So wise to spend now.

[returnofthemack]

Return of the mack :rockon:


Yes?

[RedBlackAttack]

What about a sign & trade for Ryan Anderson & Omir Asik?
Are you asking me would I rather have those two guys than Love? If that's the question, the answer is an unequivocal no. Anderson is maybe the best shooting stretch 4 in the league, but that's all he is going to bring to a championship level roster, while Love brings the shooting, high post, low post, passing, rebounding, etc.

Asik is a very good defensive player and that's all he's going to bring to a championship level team.

Then you have to remember the frontcourt is already going to be crowded when Varejao comes back next season. It would be pretty tough to find the appropriate amount of minutes for Mozgov, Tristan, Varejao, Anderson, Asik and LeBron when we go small and he plays the 4.

I mean, these guys are all capable NBA players... they're not going to be happy with just 10-15 minutes a night or maybe even less. It's going to be hard enough with Mozgov, Love, TT, Varejao and LBJ all vying for two spots on the court in a 48 minute game.

[bdreason]

So they're gonna MAX LeBron, Irving, Love, Thompson, and Mozgov?


To me, Mozgov is more important to their success than Thompson or Love. Maybe even more important than Irving.

[ALBballer]

Issue is how is Cleveland going to keep this team together by giving Thompson and Love near max deals? LBJ is getting the max, Kyrie is getting the max and you have to resign players like Mozgov who will command much more than 5 mill a year he is getting paid now and Shumpert could get a deal in the $5-10 mill range this year. I don't see Smith turning down his player option but he could get more in the freeagency this year if most free agents opt in for the new max.

The team is going to have no money for role players.

[RedBlackAttack]

So they're gonna MAX LeBron, Irving, Love, Thompson, and Mozgov?


To me, Mozgov is more important to their success than Thompson or Love. Maybe even more important than Irving.
Mozgov is not getting the max. He's locked up for another year anyways. But, when he's due for a new contract, the max is going to be HUGE and he won't get anything close to it.

Also, he's important, but I think you're overstating things a bit. The Cavs go long stretches with him on the bench and he rarely plays much in 4th quarters. And, the results have been very good (with him on the bench in those situations).

I say that as a big fan of Mozgov's game and someone who thinks he helped turn our season around... but let's not get too crazy.

Kyrie already has the max. LeBron and Love are getting the max. The only question is Tristan and he's going to get close to the max if he doesn't get it. I expect Mozgov to get somewhere between $8-12 million, which is a substantial step up in contract.

[returnofthemack]

So they're gonna MAX LeBron, Irving, Love, Thompson, and Mozgov?


To me, Mozgov is more important to their success than Thompson or Love. Maybe even more important than Irving.


Mozgov is not a max player I would be absolutely shocked if they pay him like that. I agree that he plays a huge role for the team but he just doesn't put up the numbers. Hell TT isn't either but with the CBA about to change I guess the whole idea of a max contract now doesnt matter. Cavs should do everything they can to keep Love and Thompson.

[RedBlackAttack]

Issue is how is Cleveland going to keep this team together by giving Thompson and Love near max deals? LBJ is getting the max, Kyrie is getting the max and you have to resign players like Mozgov who will command much more than 5 mill a year he is getting paid now and Shumpert chould get a deal in the $5-10 mill range this year. I don't see Smith turning down his player option but he could get more in the freeagency this year if most free agents opt in for the new max.

The team is going to have no money for role players.
How many role players do you need when you have Kyrie, LeBron, Shump, JR, Love, Tristan, Mozgov, Varejao and Delly all under contract?

That's pretty much the team. I also think Joe Harris is in the future plans for the Cavs as a role player. Then they have the Haywood contract to use in a S&T for some other role player. Looks pretty good to me.

[RedBlackAttack]

Mozgov is not a max player I would be absolutely shocked if they pay him like that. I agree that he plays a huge role for the team but he just doesn't put up the numbers. Hell TT isn't either but with the CBA about to change I guess the whole idea of a max contract now doesnt matter. Cavs should do everything they can to keep Love and Thompson.
TT also happens to be 24 and Mozgov is 28. Those things matter a lot when you're constructing contracts when you have to start looking down the road. Tristan probably isn't in his prime yet.

[fragokota]

A backup sf that can shoot and play d and you're set for next year RBA. Marion, Miller etc are done.

[ALBballer]

How many role players do you need when you have Kyrie, LeBron, Shump, JR, Love, Tristan, Mozgov, Varejao and Delly all under contract?

That's pretty much the team. I also think Joe Harris is in the future plans for the Cavs as a role player. Then they have the Haywood contract to use in a S&T for some other role player. Looks pretty good to me.

How many teams in the league right now are paying 4 max players? Cleveland is already the third highest in team salaries and they have to pay Thompson and possibly have to give Shumpert and Smith new deals. Add in Mozgov in a few years and its hard to see this team staying in tact from a financial POV.

I think Cavs will be fine for next year but after that there could be some issues. I guess we will have to wait for the new deal to see if this team is even possible to keep together financially speaking.

[El Gato Negro]

Issue is how is Cleveland going to keep this team together by giving Thompson and Love near max deals? LBJ is getting the max, Kyrie is getting the max and you have to resign players like Mozgov who will command much more than 5 mill a year he is getting paid now and Shumpert could get a deal in the $5-10 mill range this year. I don't see Smith turning down his player option but he could get more in the freeagency this year if most free agents opt in for the new max.

The team is going to have no money for role players.
This is spot on what you see is what you get with the cavs. I wouldn't expect any major roster changes for years. One advantage they do have is draft picks two in this draft alone, Boston gets their first next year but the cavs have all their first round picks going forward after that. They have also acquired lots of second round picks from teams.

[RedBlackAttack]

A backup sf that can shoot and play d and you're set for next year RBA. Marion, Miller etc are done.
Yeah, they are. I'm thinking they'll try to use that Haywood contract and maybe a couple draft picks on the backup SF, like you said. I'm not sure who it might be. I think James Jones has earned himself another year with his play this season. He's been surprisingly good. But, yeah... Marion and Miller look done.

Some names I've heard mentioned as possible targets for the Cavs with the Haywood contract (without giving really any thought to position)... Danilo Gallinari, Jordan Hill, Channing Frye, Wilson Chandler, Gerald Henderson, Thaddeus Young, Ersan Ilyasova.

Personally, I like Wilson Chandler as a backup SF even though he's not a great perimeter shooter. When healthy, we have plenty of shooting on this team.

[RedBlackAttack]

How many teams in the league right now are paying 4 max players? Cleveland is already the third highest in team salaries and they have to pay Thompson and possibly have to give Shumpert and Smith new deals. Add in Mozgov in a few years and its hard to see this team staying in tact from a financial POV.

I think Cavs will be fine for next year but after that there could be some issues. I guess we will have to wait for the new deal to see if this team is even possible to keep together financially speaking.
Plus the cap is going to go way up over the next few years, so what may look like an outrageous payroll now won't look bad a couple years from now. It's all relative. The Cavs have to hold onto this core. The guys I consider in the core are LeBron, Kyrie, Love, TT, Shump and Mozgov. JR is a very nice piece, but not as irreplaceable as those other guys, imo.

And after watching him in the playoffs, I also think we need to try to hold onto Delly. He's a nifty little player when he's in the right role and it is perfect here.

[bdreason]

Mozgov will get get at least $10-12m per in free agency.


Love - $20m
Thompson - $16m
Varejao - $10m
Mozgov - $10m

LeBron - $30m
Irving - $20m



That's a $100m payroll without a starting SF or back-court bench. I guess my point is, if you're going to pay 3 guys MAX deals, you better get value from the the rest of your roster... and I don't think Thompson is a value deal at $16m per.

[Mawly-G]

Are you asking me would I rather have those two guys than Love? If that's the question, the answer is an unequivocal no. Anderson is maybe the best shooting stretch 4 in the league, but that's all he is going to bring to a championship level roster, while Love brings the shooting, high post, low post, passing, rebounding, etc.

Asik is a very good defensive player and that's all he's going to bring to a championship level team.

Then you have to remember the frontcourt is already going to be crowded when Varejao comes back next season. It would be pretty tough to find the appropriate amount of minutes for Mozgov, Tristan, Varejao, Anderson, Asik and LeBron when we go small and he plays the 4.

I mean, these guys are all capable NBA players... they're not going to be happy with just 10-15 minutes a night or maybe even less. It's going to be hard enough with Mozgov, Love, TT, Varejao and LBJ all vying for two spots on the court in a 48 minute game.
True. These are all very valid points. Love does bring quite a bit to the table. Was just trying to see what other options the Cavs could explore by opting to trade Love, in the event that he doesn't want to stick around in Cleveland. It would suck if the Cavs were to lose him and get absolutely nothing in return.

[bdreason]

Some names I've heard mentioned as possible targets for the Cavs with the Haywood contract (without giving really any thought to position)... Danilo Gallinari, Jordan Hill, Channing Frye, Wilson Chandler, Gerald Henderson, Thaddeus Young, Ersan Ilyasova.

Personally, I like Wilson Chandler as a backup SF even though he's not a great perimeter shooter. When healthy, we have plenty of shooting on this team.


You can't afford any of those guys.

[El Gato Negro]

NBA
You can't afford any of those guys.
Kyrie max and bran max not the same, kyrie round 17 not 20. I don't think the cavs use the haywood contract next year tho. Other than to shed salary themselves. Mozgov is signed next year team option at 4 mil

[RedBlackAttack]

You can't afford any of those guys.
We're discussing possible uses of Haywood's $12 million expirer next year. All of the guys in mentioned are in that neighborhood, salary-wise. There's always the chance that they just let him expire, which may happen if Love and TT both get huge contracts and JR re-signs (Shump isn't due until the next year).

But, the Cavs wouldn't be getting any of the guys I listed in free agency. It would be a trade situation... so "affording it" isn't really a talking point.

[RedBlackAttack]

Mozgov will get get at least $10-12m per in free agency.


Love - $20m
Thompson - $16m
Varejao - $10m
Mozgov - $10m

LeBron - $30m
Irving - $20m



That's a $100m payroll without a starting SF or back-court bench. I guess my point is, if you're going to pay 3 guys MAX deals, you better get value from the the rest of your roster... and I don't think Thompson is a value deal at $16m per.
It's not like the Cavs can just let TT walk and use that $16 million on other pieces. They're going to be way over the cap for free agency anyways. And, value is relative to the team and the situation. To this team, which has to re-sign its players because free agency is essentially done for them as an outlet to dramatically improve the team, they need to get whatever it takes to keep them.

And, again... contracts are more about the future, not necessarily the present. The cap is going to go crazy when the TV money is added into the mix over the next few years. A $14-15 million contract may seem like a huge pricetag today, but it will look differently 2-3 years down the road.

Either way, Love, TT and Shump all need to be locked up long-term, imo. They're all very young and very good and the Cavs aren't getting anything close to them in free agency.

[ihatetimthomas]

Tristan Thompson is a lucky lucky man.

It's like he knew love would go down in the playoffs when he turned down that money. Without the extended minutes given to him and the opportunity to shine in the playoffs, his value would not be so high. I know he was getting minutes before but he get more now and on the biggest stage. I doubt he is viewed as highly if he wasn't able to prove himself in the playoffs.

[ALBballer]

I think Thompson is being overrated as well. Prime Joakim Noah was a much better player than Thompson is and he is being paid 13 mill this year in his final year.

Thompson is a really good role player. Since when did they become max players? I guess max is a relative term. He might be a max player next year and will be a bargain with the new TV deal.

:confusedshrug:

[ihatetimthomas]

Thompson wouldn't have same impact on any other team outside to title contenders with superstars. Which shouldn't be a knock to him but he wouldn't be the easiest to trade to random teams

[RedBlackAttack]

I think Thompson is being overrated as well. Prime Joakim Noah was a much better player than Thompson is and he is being paid 13 mill this year in his final year.

Thompson is a really good role player. Since when did they become max players? I guess max is a relative term. He might be a max player next year and will be a bargain with the new TV deal.

:confusedshrug:
He just turned 24. There's a high likelihood we have not seen his prime yet. Noah -- like most players -- was at his best a few years ago when he was in the 27-28 range.

So, if you're saying that -- right now -- a prime Noah is only slightly better than TT ... that's pretty damn good.

Again, these contracts are only partially about how good a player is right now. They're also about how many years a guy has left and where he is in his growth as a player. I'll also throw in that TT hasn't missed a game in the last three years. His durability has been insane.

[DMAVS41]

It's not like the Cavs can just let TT walk and use that $16 million on other pieces. They're going to be way over the cap for free agency anyways. And, value is relative to the team and the situation. To this team, which has to re-sign its players because free agency is essentially done for them as an outlet to dramatically improve the team, they need to get whatever it takes to keep them.

And, again... contracts are more about the future, not necessarily the present. The cap is going to go crazy when the TV money is added into the mix over the next few years. A $14-15 million contract may seem like a huge pricetag today, but it will look differently 2-3 years down the road.

Either way, Love, TT and Shump all need to be locked up long-term, imo. They're all very young and very good and the Cavs aren't getting anything close to them in free agency.


Yep.

This is why...even with that Haywood contract...if they lose Love...it could by very costly long term.

[KNOW1EDGE]

I don't see Kevin Love leaving via free-agency.

And imo TT is not worth a max contract. but there are a lot of players who get signed to huge contracts that aren't worth it, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him sign a 16+ mill a year deal.

If the Cavs can secure this same roster next year that Wil make 6 straight finals appearances for LBJ

[Duderonomy]

Love, Thompson,Delle, Shump, and maybe JR all free agents. They might be better off from a negotiating stand point if they lose in the finals. Too shacked to resign everybody #noexcuses.

[Meticode]

Varejao the $10 million fourth big man. What a horrible extension. There was no damn way I would've paid him that with all the injuries he's had.

[ihatetimthomas]

Varejao the $10 million fourth big man. What a horrible extension. There was no damn way I would've paid him that with all the injuries he's had.

The problem was they had no legit center at the time of I'm not mistaken. That's why they went so hard for mozgov. Didn't need to be so much money but his game on paper fits with that team.

[Meticode]

The problem was they had no legit center at the time of I'm not mistaken. That's why they went so hard for mozgov. Didn't need to be so much money but his game on paper fits with that team.
It was an extension. He could've still played this year, it was his final year of his 6 year contract. If they didn't extend him, he would've injured himself, then if they wanted to resign him after this season it would've been for way cheaper because of the injury concerns.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11798665/anderson-varejao-cleveland-cavaliers-agree-contract-extension

[chocolatethunder]

:biggums:

The guy either has some confidence in himself or a genious manager.

:coleman:

[RedBlackAttack]

It was an extension. He could've still played this year, it was his final year of his 6 year contract. If they didn't extend him, he would've injured himself, then if they wanted to resign him after this season it would've been for way cheaper because of the injury concerns.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11798665/anderson-varejao-cleveland-cavaliers-agree-contract-extension


The Varejao extension was just a horrible move. That was really the only thing Griffin has done as GM which I really did not agree with. And, it's not like I'm playing revisionist historian, here... I (and many Cavs fans) said at the time that it was a horrible decision, mainly because Andy has proven now that he cannot stay healthy if he is your primary bigman.

In the last five seasons, he's played more than 31 games one time. And, you're going to give him $10 million a year when he's coming off another injury/illness and he's 32?

It just made no sense ... unless LeBron demanded it, which I wouldn't be all that surprised. Remember, LeBron and Andy are very good friends. LeBron stayed with Andy in Brazil during the World Cup just prior to and immediately after his decision to come back was announced. Andy was all throughout his letter to Cleveland upon coming home.

They seem like legitimately good friends and I think that at least played a part in Andy's extension. Oddly enough, Tristan is another one of his good friends.... difference is, Tristan is 24 and hasn't missed a game in three years. :oldlol:


But, yeah... that contract was a mistake and it is coming back to bite us now that we have all of these contracts we have to hand out to guys that actually deserve them.

[DMAVS41]

Varejao the $10 million fourth big man. What a horrible extension. There was no damn way I would've paid him that with all the injuries he's had.

It's bad, but the truth is that it expires the year after next year because the 4th year is a team option iirc.

Worst case scenario they could dump him and a pick next summer if they really need extra cap room.

With the increases and Gilbert being willing to pay the tax....might not hurt them.

Especially as he could definitely play a role on this team if healthy the next year or 2.

[ihatetimthomas]

It was an extension. He could've still played this year, it was his final year of his 6 year contract. If they didn't extend him, he would've injured himself, then if they wanted to resign him after this season it would've been for way cheaper because of the injury concerns.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11798665/anderson-varejao-cleveland-cavaliers-agree-contract-extension

Gotcha. Yeah should've just let him play out his deal. Seems like one of those loyalty contracts

[Meticode]

Gotcha. Yeah should've just let him play out his deal. Seems like one of those loyalty contracts
That pretty much is exactly what it was.

[PP34Deuce]

The Cavs front office actually calculated everything.

Gave up 2 first round picks.... It's suicide for other teams but a Lebron James led team for the next 2 years is going to make it hurt less.

They know that most all star level players want to get seriously paid after next season. due to the new TV deal, contracts will sky rocket. Bron will be 32 and I'm willing to be he will get something of a 4-5 year 140 million dollar deal.

They will keep both love and Thompson.

[HurricaneKid]

The Cavs front office actually calculated everything.

Gave up 2 first round picks.... It's suicide for other teams but a Lebron James led team for the next 2 years is going to make it hurt less.

They know that most all star level players want to get seriously paid after next season. due to the new TV deal, contracts will sky rocket. Bron will be 32 and I'm willing to be he will get something of a 4-5 year 140 million dollar deal.

They will keep both love and Thompson.

LeBron will sign a 5/175M deal after next year.

LOL at everyone whining about all the "Max" deals Cle will have. They will be 1/2 max deals in 1 year.

But they can't pay TT that much. They just can't. He isn't worth it and still isn't as good as Love. They need Shump and JR more and both will be FAs after this season (assuming JR, who 3 months ago was on one of the worst contracts out there, opts out of his player option).