So it turns out Wilt really did block Bellamy's first 9 shots...

[CavaliersFTW]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Mjnyj-pYO9o/VSVtQuLg5JI/AAAAAAAAGCg/sCDkOzC_2d4/s800/Wilt%2520blocked%2520Bellamys%2520first%25209%2520 shots%2520rookie%2520game%2520debut.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-FHP_uCFMZFg/VSVtCeTekgI/AAAAAAAAGCQ/BqO5kVD6zp0/s800/TTMWaltBellamy001-1.jpg

First 9 shots inside the free throw line blocked by Wilt, and Wilt held Rookie of the Year Walt Bellamy (who averaged over 30 that season) to just 14 points in their first match... and dropped 51 on him. So that corny story about him saying "you won't get a shot off" than swatting him 9 times and saying "you can play now" or w/e the story goes... that shit actually happened.

:wtf:

I thought Wilt myths were just myths? :confusedshrug:

I mean, Wilt did that to THIS guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSYtYGYxBFk

[Marchesk]

Thanks Cavs. I wasn't sure whether to believe that one or not. Made for a nice story, though.

What would that look like today? Wiggins challenges Lebron, and Lebron blocks his first nine shots?

Or Noel challenges Cousins, and Cousins doesn't let him get a shot off inside the free throw line?

[avonbarksdale]

do you have a job, or any interests?

[Dr. Ice]

Op whenever he sees new wilt info

http://media.giphy.com/media/LLWP1seiT4fC/giphy.gif

[Pointguard]

Bellamy also lead the league in field goal percentage. So Wilt wanted to put a dent in that as well.

[CavaliersFTW]

Op whenever he sees new wilt info

http://media.giphy.com/media/LLWP1seiT4fC/giphy.gif
:oldlol:

[AkronAngel]

Op whenever he sees new wilt info

http://media.giphy.com/media/LLWP1seiT4fC/giphy.gif

:oldlol:

[Psileas]

The paper is photoshopped and the photo is sped up.

[gigantes]

what was wilt's wingspan?

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061206042456/muppet/images/8/87/W_Lecture_-1.JPG


seems pretty impressive, anyway...

[CavaliersFTW]

what was wilt's wingspan?

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061206042456/muppet/images/8/87/W_Lecture_-1.JPG


seems pretty impressive, anyway...
92 inches (7 feet 8") as per measured on the 1967 Ali vs Chamberlain "fight" promo.

No clue what Bellamy's is.

[avonbarksdale]

do you really just want everyone to acknowledge that wilt was good? like you make these dumb threads all the time

honestly you dug up a 54 year old newspaper article to try to prove to a bunch of people on the internet that wilt had 9 blocks in a basketball game?

its sad, really

[gigantes]

92 inches (7 feet 8") as per measured on the 1967 Ali vs Chamberlain "fight" promo.

No clue what Bellamy's is.
so... seven inches greater than his height. definitely above average.


haha as i was searching the net for more comparisons, this (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261350) was the first result. :cheers:

[oarabbus]

do you really just want everyone to acknowledge that wilt was good? like you make these dumb threads all the time

honestly you dug up a 54 year old newspaper article to try to prove to a bunch of people on the internet that wilt had 9 blocks in a basketball game?

its sad, really


At least he is uncovering new information unlike 3ball

[jongib369]

Damn, that's a story I didn't even think was completely true. That kind of domination of a player, and then letting him play almost doesnt make sense its so crazy...Not to derail the thread, but I wonder what this would have looked like if you replaced Bellamy with Kareem. Or if Wilt tried to do something like that when they first went against each other at an older age, but just couldn't.

Pisses me off sometimes that Wilt, Shaq, Russell, Kareem, Hakeem, Mikan, Thurmond etc didnt play in the same era

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

do you really just want everyone to acknowledge that wilt was good? like you make these dumb threads all the time

honestly you dug up a 54 year old newspaper article to try to prove to a bunch of people on the internet that wilt had 9 blocks in a basketball game?

its sad, really
Why do you care? Does his fandom really affect you personally? :oldlol:

[Marchesk]

do you really just want everyone to acknowledge that wilt was good? like you make these dumb threads all the time

honestly you dug up a 54 year old newspaper article to try to prove to a bunch of people on the internet that wilt had 9 blocks in a basketball game?

its sad, really

It's proof of a legend where Wilt told the hot new rookie playing the same position that he wouldn't get a shot off. And then after blocking his first nine shots, Wilt tells him he can play.

Imagine Lebron doing that to Wiggins. Doesn't have to be blocks. Could just be completely shutting Wiggins down in the first half to make a point, and then telling him he could play after half time. Would be MJ level shit.

[StrongLurk]

The paper is photoshopped and the photo is sped up.

:lol

[CavaliersFTW]

Why do you care? Does his fandom really affect you personally? :oldlol:
Of course it affects him personally, I haven't paid him any rent since I moved into his mind.

[CavaliersFTW]

The paper is photoshopped and the photo is sped up.
:oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

It's proof of a legend where Wilt told the hot new rookie playing the same position that he wouldn't get a shot off. And then after blocking his first nine shots, Wilt tells him he can play.

Imagine Lebron doing that to Wiggins. Doesn't have to be blocks. Could just be completely shutting Wiggins down in the first half to make a point, and then telling him he could play after half time. Would be MJ level shit.
Exactly. It's like, you have the option to completley embarass an extremely talented young opponent - on both ends. Completely shut him down defensively, for not just a few minutes but rather smother/reject 9 consecutive shot attempts, and then light his ass up for 50+ on offense. That's freak status dominance.

And it's not the only example of it. There's the Larry Brown UCLA story. 43 year old Wilt Chamberlain, with 4 UCLA freshman against Magic Johnson, Bernard King, AC Green, Byron Scott, and James Worthy playing 5 on 5... should on paper be a massacre against the freshman and 43 year old retired center right?

According to Larry Brown's first hand account, Wilt got called goal tending and Magic called game in the pickup game. Wilt said it wasn't goal tending, asked Brown and Brown agreed. Wilt proposes to play another game, til 12, and says there will be "no more shots made on this basket"... like, bold ****ing statement against the likes of those young NBA players right? Then he goes out and does it. Completely shuts the basket down against 5 NBA players, some of them superstars, in their 20's, when he's 43 with nothing but college freshman as his teammates.

Larry tells it right here:
https://youtu.be/_B7jVTJ_CIE?t=54m43s

:biggums:

[Pointguard]

Exactly. It's like, you have the option to completley embarass an extremely talented young opponent - on both ends. Completely shut him down defensively, for not just a few minutes but rather smother/reject 9 consecutive shot attempts, and then light his ass up for 50+ on offense. That's freak status dominance.

And it's not the only example of it. There's the Larry Brown UCLA story. 43 year old Wilt Chamberlain, with 4 UCLA freshman against Magic Johnson, Bernard King, AC Green, Byron Scott, and James Worthy playing 5 on 5... should on paper be a massacre against the freshman and 43 year old retired center right?

According to Larry Brown's first hand account, Wilt got called goal tending and Magic called game in the pickup game. Wilt said it wasn't goal tending, asked Brown and Brown agreed. Wilt proposes to play another game, til 12, and says there will be "no more shots made on this basket"... like, bold ****ing statement against the likes of those young NBA players right? Then he goes out and does it. Completely shuts the basket down against 5 NBA players, some of them superstars, in their 20's, when he's 43 with nothing but college freshman as his teammates.

Larry tells it right here:
https://youtu.be/_B7jVTJ_CIE?t=54m43s

:biggums:

Boooo, the right way to say that is HOFer and once scoring champion Bernard King, HOFer and once FMVP James Worthy, HOFer and three time MVP and two time FMVP Magic and multiple world champions AC Green and Byron Scott.

[Marchesk]

Exactly. It's like, you have the option to completley embarass an extremely talented young opponent - on both ends. Completely shut him down defensively, for not just a few minutes but rather smother/reject 9 consecutive shot attempts, and then light his ass up for 50+ on offense. That's freak status dominance.

I don't know if MJ ever actually did that. The Lebron - Wiggins hypothetical isn't really good enough, since Wiggins isn't a clear cut rookie of the year candidate. Bellamy had arguably his best season as a rookie.

Maybe a better comparison would be if Hakeem had done that to rookie Robinson.

[scm5]

it says his first 9 shots in the paint.

I'm guessing he stepped out for some jumpers cuz he was getting owned in the paint too hard.

Still an amazing feat.

[LAZERUSS]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Mjnyj-pYO9o/VSVtQuLg5JI/AAAAAAAAGCg/sCDkOzC_2d4/s800/Wilt%2520blocked%2520Bellamys%2520first%25209%2520 shots%2520rookie%2520game%2520debut.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-FHP_uCFMZFg/VSVtCeTekgI/AAAAAAAAGCQ/BqO5kVD6zp0/s800/TTMWaltBellamy001-1.jpg

First 9 shots inside the free throw line blocked by Wilt, and Wilt held Rookie of the Year Walt Bellamy (who averaged over 30 that season) to just 14 points in their first match... and dropped 51 on him. So that corny story about him saying "you won't get a shot off" than swatting him 9 times and saying "you can play now" or w/e the story goes... that shit actually happened.

:wtf:

I thought Wilt myths were just myths? :confusedshrug:

I mean, Wilt did that to THIS guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSYtYGYxBFk

This puts an end to those that have claimed that Wilt didn't play much defense early in his career. The REALITY was, while you could make a case that Russell's TEAM defensive impact was greater...I don't think there is any question that Wilt's one-on-one defense was the best in the history of the NBA.

And the above illustrates just how dominant his individual defense was, and could be on ANY given night. And this trend would continue into his LAST season.


Chamberlain, at age 36, and in his LAST season vs the best centers in the league:


Vs. Cowens in 4 H2H's:

Cowens: 31.3 ppg, 19.8 rpg, .454 FG%

Wilt: 14.3 ppg, 14.5 rpg, .588 FG%



vs. Reed in 3 regular season H2H's:

Reed: 12.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, .471 FG%

Wilt: 6.3 ppg, 23.3 rpg, .529 FG%

vs. Reed in 5 Finals' H2H's:

Reed: 16.4 ppg, 9.2 rpg, .493 FG%

Wilt: 11.6 ppg, 18.6 rpg, .525 FG%


vs. Bellamy in 4 H2H's:

Bellamy: 17.0 ppg, 18.0 rpg ( 2 known games), .400 FG% (2 known game)

Wilt: 9.8 ppg, 20.5 rpg, .593 FG%


vs. Unseld in 4 H2H's:

Unseld: 12.8 ppg, 15.3 rpg, .481 FG%

Wilt: 12.8 ppg, 20.8 rpg, .769 FG%


vs. McAdoo in 4 H2H's:

McAdoo: 16.8 ppg, 8.8 rpg, .450 FG% (3 known games)

Wilt: 20.5 ppg, 21.3 rpg, .850 FG%


vs. Thurmond in 7 regular season H2H's:

Thurmond: 12.3 ppg, 21.6 rpg, .315 FG%

Wilt: 5.1 ppg, 16.6 rpg, .684 FG%

vs. Thurmond in 5 playoff H2H's:

Thurmond: 15.8 ppg, 17.2 rpg, .373 FG%

Wilt: 7.0 ppg, 23.6 rpg, .611 FG%


vs. Lanier in 6 H2H's:

Lanier: 21.2 ppg, 13.4 rpg (5 known games), .374 FG% (5 known games)

Wilt: 19.8 ppg, 16.3 rpg, .764 FG%



vs. Kareem in 6 H2H's:

Kareem: 29.5 ppg, 17.8 rpg, .450 FG%

Wilt: 11.0 ppg, 16.0 rpg, .737 FG%




Willis Reed didn't do much of anything against Wilt in their regular season H2H's, and while he won the FMVP, SOMEBODY had to win it. If anything, Chamberlain outplayed him (again) in their Finals matchup (and in the clinching game, he badly outplayed him.)

Bellamy? I doubt that there has ever been one HOFer who so thoroughly dominated another over the course of so many seasons. Even into his LAST season, Chamberlain continued to own Bellamy. And this likely was one of Bellamy's closest seasons against Wilt.

How about rookie Bob McAdoo? Talk about pure domination...Wilt SLAUGHTERED McAdoo in every conceivable facet of the game. He easily outscored him, badly outrebounded him, and shot an unfathomable .850 from the field (again, all while averaging 20.5 ppg against him.)

Bob Lanier? Wilt more than held his own a PRIME Lanier. In fact, he easily outplayed him overall. And look at their FG%'s. In his five known games, Lanier shot a paltry .374 from the field, while Wilt not only averaged 20 ppg against him, he also shot a staggering .764 from the floor.

Kareem outscored and outrebounded Wilt in their six regular season H2H's, but as almost always, Chamberlain reduced KAJ's FG% by more than 10%. Kareem only shot over 50% twice in their six H2H's, and had games of 12-31, 10-27, and 11-30 from the field against Wilt. In fact, Chamberlain even outscored Kareem in one H2H, by a 24-21 margin, while outshooting him from the field by a 10-14 to 10-27 margin.

I didn't include Elvin Hayes, because he was now a PF alongside Unseld.

In any case, Chamberlain was not only blocking a KNOWN 5.4 bpg in his LAST season, he was DRAMATICALLY lowering the efficiency of the top centers in the league. All at age 36.

But, there was also no question that Chamberlain was EASILY the game's greatest RIM PROTECTOR, as well. In the research that has become available (and more-and-more is coming forth almost daily now)...Chamberlain was the game's greatest shot-blocker. As indicated above, Wilt averaged 5.4 bpg in his LAST season, which was only slightly behind Mark Eaton's "official" single season record, which came only 12 years later in '85, of 5.6 bpg.

We also KNOW that Chamberlain had a RECORDED 23 blocked shots in a game in 1968, which blows away the "official" record of 17 by Elmore Smith. Furthermore, there are numerous accounts of Wilt blocking 25+ shots (Pollack mentions this in Cherry's book), and even educated estimates of as high as 33.

Russell is widely regarded as the GOAT defender, but there is mounting evidence which suggests that Wilt was close. And a peak Wilt likely was his equal.

[kshutts1]

Finding out that is true frustrates me a little bit.

How would Wilt's career be different if he played that hard all the time, and only played 36-38 mpg? Would things be different?

[oarabbus]

The paper is photoshopped and the photo is sped up.


:roll: :roll: :applause:

[jongib369]

This puts an end to those that have claimed that Wilt didn't play much defense early in his career. The REALITY was, while you could make a case that Russell's TEAM defensive impact was greater...I don't think there is any question that Wilt's one-on-one defense was the best in the history of the NBA.

And the above illustrates just how dominant his individual defense was, and could be on ANY given night. And this trend would continue into his LAST season.



But, there was also no question that Chamberlain was EASILY the game's greatest RIM PROTECTOR, as well. In the research that has become available (and more-and-more is coming forth almost daily now)...Chamberlain was the game's greatest shot-blocker. As indicated above, Wilt averaged 5.4 bpg in his LAST season, which was only slightly behind Mark Eaton's "official" single season record, which came only 12 years later in '85, of 5.6 bpg.

We also KNOW that Chamberlain had a RECORDED 23 blocked shots in a game in 1968, which blows away the "official" record of 17 by Elmore Smith. Furthermore, there are numerous accounts of Wilt blocking 25+ shots (Pollack mentions this in Cherry's book), and even educated estimates of as high as 33.

Russell is widely regarded as the GOAT defender, but there is mounting evidence which suggests that Wilt was close. And a peak Wilt likely was his equal.
Do you have any stats available on Walt VS Thurmond?

[CavaliersFTW]

Finding out that is true frustrates me a little bit.

How would Wilt's career be different if he played that hard all the time, and only played 36-38 mpg? Would things be different?
I read a similar thing about Bill Russell facing Elvin Hayes in their first matchup. Not quite as dominating, but Hayes said when Russell came up to him said "Hey rookie, I won't block but one of your shots tonight." And on a shot from the corner Hayes said Russell came out of nowhere and sent his shot into the stands with a grin on his face. Hayes said it threw off his game the rest of the night - just on how easy Russell made it seem. Russell has actually said in interviews his key wasn't to block every shot, but to make people think he could block every shot. So this psychological game is important, because nobodies probably got the energy to play like that for 40+ minutes on the defensive end. He, and Wilt playing mind games with rookies I would think, is their way of establishing a psychological edge. Nate Thurmond did this to Jabbar. Thurmond has stated in interviews he played Jabbar so well his rookie night that he felt he'd always had a psychological edge over him the rest of the games they played. And Jabbar even admits, he felt Thurmond was his toughest match up during his career.

[LAZERUSS]

Do you have any stats available on Walt VS Thurmond?

I am not at my normal pc at the moment, but I do have many of their H2H's.

I can tell you this much...and just off the top of my head...

Wilt outshot Nate from the field in their career known H2H's by a .540 to .360 margin.

And absolutely slaughtered Thurmond in every statistical category in their first 24 career H2H meetings. He outscored Thurmond by a 21-2-1 margin in those games, while just annihilating him in FG%.

Even off the top of my head...

in their 6 regular season H2H's in the 66-67 season...

Wilt oustcored Thurmond by a 20.8 ppg to 13.2 ppg margin; outrebounded him by a 25.0 rpg to 21.0 rpg margin; and outshot him from the field by a .633 to .320 margin.

I'll get you more info later...

EDIT:

Ooops...I think you want Bellamy vs Nate.

I do have some. Thurmond was clearly the better player in their career H2H's. I'll get back to you on that, as well.

[kshutts1]

I read a similar thing about Bill Russell facing Elvin Hayes in their first matchup. Not quite as dominating, but Hayes said when Russell came up to him said "Hey rookie, I won't block but one of your shots tonight." And on a shot from the corner Hayes said Russell came out of nowhere and sent his shot into the stands with a grin on his face. Hayes said it threw off his game the rest of the night - just on how easy Russell made it seem. Russell has actually said in interviews his key wasn't to block every shot, but to make people think he could block every shot. So this psychological game is important, because nobodies probably got the energy to play like that for 40+ minutes on the defensive end. He, and Wilt playing mind games with rookies I would think, is their way of establishing a psychological edge. Nate Thurmond did this to Jabbar. Thurmond has stated in interviews he played Jabbar so well his rookie night that he felt he'd always had a psychological edge over him the rest of the games they played. And Jabbar even admits, he felt Thurmond was his toughest match up during his career.
That's an interesting take. Can't dispute their thoughts and feelings, but when I get embarrassed, I want to go harder to show them that I'm not really that bad.
Getting beat time after time, however, has changed my opinion, though I wouldn't give up.. just accept that I was not good relative to them, and they were better. I'm sure that realization/acceptance hindered my performance subconsciously.

[red1]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Mjnyj-pYO9o/VSVtQuLg5JI/AAAAAAAAGCg/sCDkOzC_2d4/s800/Wilt%2520blocked%2520Bellamys%2520first%25209%2520 shots%2520rookie%2520game%2520debut.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-FHP_uCFMZFg/VSVtCeTekgI/AAAAAAAAGCQ/BqO5kVD6zp0/s800/TTMWaltBellamy001-1.jpg

First 9 shots inside the free throw line blocked by Wilt, and Wilt held Rookie of the Year Walt Bellamy (who averaged over 30 that season) to just 14 points in their first match... and dropped 51 on him. So that corny story about him saying "you won't get a shot off" than swatting him 9 times and saying "you can play now" or w/e the story goes... that shit actually happened.

:wtf:

I thought Wilt myths were just myths? :confusedshrug:

I mean, Wilt did that to THIS guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSYtYGYxBFk
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/06/I-dont-believe-you.gif

[Elosha]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Mjnyj-pYO9o/VSVtQuLg5JI/AAAAAAAAGCg/sCDkOzC_2d4/s800/Wilt%2520blocked%2520Bellamys%2520first%25209%2520 shots%2520rookie%2520game%2520debut.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-FHP_uCFMZFg/VSVtCeTekgI/AAAAAAAAGCQ/BqO5kVD6zp0/s800/TTMWaltBellamy001-1.jpg

First 9 shots inside the free throw line blocked by Wilt, and Wilt held Rookie of the Year Walt Bellamy (who averaged over 30 that season) to just 14 points in their first match... and dropped 51 on him. So that corny story about him saying "you won't get a shot off" than swatting him 9 times and saying "you can play now" or w/e the story goes... that shit actually happened.

:wtf:

I thought Wilt myths were just myths? :confusedshrug:

I mean, Wilt did that to THIS guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSYtYGYxBFk

Is the picture that you posted from the actual game in 1961 and is it purporting to be one of Wilt's blocks? Was the pic part of the article you quoted? It's odd that that it's signed by Bellamy if that was a picture of him getting blocked, but perhaps he didn't even remember that particular play. It's hard to tell for sure if Wilt blocked that shot or not.

[Psileas]

Is the picture that you posted from the actual game in 1961 and is it purporting to be one of Wilt's blocks? Was the pic part of the article you quoted? It's odd that that it's signed by Bellamy if that was a picture of him getting blocked, but perhaps he didn't even remember that particular play. It's hard to tell for sure if Wilt blocked that shot or not.

That's definitely from another game, since Wilt wears a Sixers jersey.

[Elosha]

That's definitely from another game, since Wilt wears a Sixers jersey.

Good point. :cheers: Well for Bellamy's sake, since he autographed the picture, I hope that's one basket he got past Chamberlain.

[LAZERUSS]

Do you have any stats available on Walt VS Thurmond?

I am just getting too lazy to look them up, but start with this...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=thurmna01&p2=bellawa01

Keep in mind that Thurmond didn't become the Warrior starting center until Jan 1965 (64-65 season.) As you can see, from that point on, he had a considerable H2H advantage over Bellamy.

He also pretty much statistically outplayed Russell, as well.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=thurmna01&p2=russebi01

And look at the Nate-Lanier matchups (before Thurmond started a dramatic decline)...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=thurmna01&p2=laniebo01


Next...go to nbastats.net...and scroll down. You will find excel spreadsheets with game logs for certain periods (like '66-67 thru 71-72.) At least some of them will have near full stat-lines (and they are being updated almost daily.) I have no doubt that within a few years, we will have virtually 75% of all of the completed game logs in NBA history...and likely 90% from the 60's on.

In any case, you can find a ton of info on that site.

And without me taking the time, I'm convinced that Nate outplayed a prime Bellamy, and badly outplayed an aging Bellamy.


Furthermore...I will say that Thurmond is probably the most under-rated center in NBA history. Both Kareem and Wilt would attest to that.

[LAZERUSS]

Finding out that is true frustrates me a little bit.

How would Wilt's career be different if he played that hard all the time, and only played 36-38 mpg? Would things be different?

Bellamy averaged 34.7 ppg against Wilt in their 10 regular season H2H's that same season...and 33.2 ppg against Russell in their 10 H2H's.

A peak Bellamy, which came early in his career (like many players BTW)...was among the greatest offensive centers in NBA history. He was hanging multiple 40+ point games on both Wilt and Russell.


As for Wilt's "defense"...you have to remember that Chamberlain, like Russell, was a defensive anchor. Their main jobs at the defensive end was to control the lane. In fact, Bill Sharman's defensive strategy when he came to the Lakers before the start of the 71-72 season, was to funnel everything into Wilt. Naturally, good scoring centers were going to score against him...albeit, usually on horrific efficiency. Wilt wasn't playing strictly man-to-man defense, but rather was not only defending his man...but anchoring the entire defense.

Clearly, a prime athletic Wilt could have probably shut down any great offensive center in NBA history. But that was not his main role. But this example proves that, had that been his primary assignment, he was likely the best ever.