Alonzo Mourning talks Jordan in this era

[SugarHill]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n4bWnG9-eo

Jordan would average 50 points today because of the new rules and you can't compare LeBron to him because the games are too different. Also implies LeBron wouldn't be that good in the 90s. Went full 3ball

[24-Inch_Chrome]

As soon as I see '50 PPG' I immediately know the person speaking is full of shit.

[kennethgriffin]

old people are stupid

i swear. every single guy from every single era thinks their era and their guys are the best and would rape any other era

"listen here kiddo!.. dag nabbit! i tell ya! wilten chamberlaned otta rack in 100 touch downs over kobey james!!"


http://i59.tinypic.com/25s3prb.jpg

[Nikola_]

he bitter lebron left

wasnt he talking in 2012-13 how lebron is better than mj ?

[kennethgriffin]

both kobe and jordan would average 35-37ppg on a bad team

and 30-32ppg on a good team..

theres no 50ppg ffs

:facepalm

[The_Pharcyde]

I mean Zo played in both areas and is 6 years older than duncan,nash and kobe , so cant use the old man argument

this is forsure a hyperbole... but the point he is making is that MJ is the superior player
which is widely accepted except for a few trolls and LBJ fanboys

nothing to see here

[Nastradamus]

Jordan is the better player. The margin is very slight though. Lebron's era is also tougher by a less slight margin.

[Nash]

man, these guys still don't understand that defense today is so much more sophisticated than what it was during the 80's and 90's.

[AkronAngel]

Mourning is speaking out of his butt.

[The_Pharcyde]

man, these guys still don't understand that defense today is so much more sophisticated than what it was during the 80's and 90's.
yeah one of the greatest defensive players of all time, who played 6 years ago doesn't understand it

but nash on ish does

[scm5]

I actually think 40ppg is quite possible in this era for Jordan IF he worked on his 3 point shot.

I have no doubt in my mind that Jordan would be a good 3 point shooter and a consistent threat from that distance if he adopted it into his game. People say that he knows it was a weakness in his game, but he never worked on it because he felt like it wasn't necessary.

In this era, the 3 point shot is vital. I feel like Jordan would become at least a consistent 35% shooter with his work ethic.

[tmacattack33]

When comparing different eras and trying to figure out which one is better, really the only argument that is valid is talent pool size.

And the talent pool right now is bigger than it ever was, since basketball is bigger now than it ever was.

[tmacattack33]

I actually think 40ppg is quite possible in this era for Jordan IF he worked on his 3 point shot.

I have no doubt in my mind that Jordan would be a good 3 point shooter and a consistent threat from that distance if he adopted it into his game. People say that he knows it was a weakness in his game, but he never worked on it because he felt like it wasn't necessary.

In this era, the 3 point shot is vital. I feel like Jordan would become at least a consistent 35% shooter with his work ethic.

Great, but then you can say the same for any current player if they went back in time. They would then work on certain aspects of their game that were more important in the 80's or 70's or whatever decade you decide to send them back to.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The 50ppg talk is just hyperbole. Everyone knows Alonzo's underlying meaning though. That is, Jordan would be the best player in today's game by a fair margin.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

The 50ppg is just hyperbole. Everyone knows Alonzo's underlining meaning - that is Jordan would be the best player in today by a longshot.

I'm not sure why so many players from the 1990s feel the need to reinforce this. No one seriously believes that Jordan isn't better than anyone in the league today, all the hyperbole does is undermine their credibility.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I'm not sure why so many players from the 1990s feel the need to reinforce this. No one seriously believes that Jordan isn't better than anyone in the league today, all the hyperbole does is undermine their credibility.
I edited my post. Longshot was an exaggeration on my part too.

Obviously these players are gonna be a little biased, but in the end, they're being asked the questions. Explaining why Jordan, or any other GOAT-level player, would be a phenom in today's era can be interesting IMO. Hubie Brown practically did a seminar on the matter. :oldlol:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I edited my post. Longshot was an exaggeration on my part too.

Obviously these players are gonna be a little biased, but in the end, they're being asked the questions. Explaining why Jordan, or any other GOAT-level player, would be a phenom in today's era can be interesting IMO. Hubie Brown practically did a seminar on the matter. :oldlol:

There's definitely merit in their opinions but the hyperbole takes away from that. Wasn't it Rodman who said that LeBron would be just another player in the 1990s? I find it much more difficult to take what they say seriously after hearing stuff like that. They're all right that MJ would be the best player if he played today but it just seems kinda disrespectful to either make ridiculous 50PPG claims or shit on modern players.

[DonDadda59]

Needs more gifs.

[Paul George 24]

old people are stupid

i swear. every single guy from every single era thinks their era and their guys are the best and would rape any other era

"listen here kiddo!.. dag nabbit! i tell ya! wilten chamberlaned otta rack in 100 touch downs over kobey james!!"


http://i59.tinypic.com/25s3prb.jpg

U MAD BECAUSE 40 YRS OLD JORDAN IS PALY MUCH BETTER THAN CURRENT KOBE :lol

[Paul George 24]

Jordan is the better player. The margin is very slight though. Lebron's era is also tougher by a less slight margin.
LOL AT LEBRON'S ERA IS TOUGHER,WHEN THEIR HAVE NO PAINT DEFENCE AT ALL

[BigNBAfan]

LOL AT LEBRON'S ERA IS TOUGHER,WHEN THEIR HAVE NO PAINT DEFENCE AT ALL

:biggums:

[Paul George 24]

The 50ppg talk is just hyperbole. Everyone knows Alonzo's underlying meaning though. That is, Jordan would be the best player in today's game by a fair margin.

SHAQ COULD AVG 50PPG IN THIS ERA

[clipps]

LeBron's era of basketball is like this generation of teenagers you see at the gym. Nothing screams bitch more than some teen using the padding for the bar when squatting 115 lbs. My HS weights coach wouldn't even let the girls use the padding.

[Nash]

yeah one of the greatest defensive players of all time, who played 6 years ago doesn't understand it

but nash on ish does
saying jordan would average 50 ppg today honestly discredits Mourning.

[3ball]

Here's the NBA officially stating how the rule changes had accomplished their objective of increasing dribble-penetration.. This is from the source, so it's not subjective opinion, just like Warren Buffet's vision for Berkshire Hathaway isn't subjective opinion.. The NBA changed the rules to make penetration easier, and it worked - it's a fact:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html


NBA.COM: Since the hand-checking rule was interpreted differently beginning in the 2004-05 season, the game has opened up. Players are penetrating and the floor is spread. As a result, scoring has risen every season. Was this anticipated back in 2004?

STU JACKSON: Our objective was to allow for more offensive freedom by not allowing defenders to hand-, forearm- or body-check ball handlers. By doing so, we encouraged more dribble penetration. As players penetrated more, it produced higher quality shots for the ball handler as well as shots for teammates on passes back out to perimeter. When NBA players get higher quality shots -- having more time to shoot -- they tend to make more of them.


NBA.COM: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range?

STU JACKSON: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim.


NBA.COM: From an Xs and Os perspective, how have coaches adjusted to a more wide-open game? What have they done differently?

STU JACKSON: Coaches have utilized more space on the floor so to create more room for dribble penetration, two-man pick-and-roll basketball and dribble exchanges on the perimeter.


NBA.COM: When you watch the game today, does it closely resemble an international game or are there still distinct differences in the style of play?

STU JACKSON: Our game does more closely resemble an international game in terms of the style of play than it used to. However, there are distinct differences in the international game vs. the NBA game. The international game utilizes a pure zone defense (as opposed to the defensive three-second rule), which allows frontcourt players to stand in the middle of the lane and discourage cutting, passing and dribble penetration.


THAT'S why Alonzo said what he said
.

[Im Still Ballin]

Shut the **** up, Stu

[3ball]

Al Jeffereson would be a 2nd tier bigmen in 1996 - no better than the 12th-best:

Hakeem
Shaq
Robinson
Ewing
Alonzo
Sabonis (25 PER - unbelievable all-round talent)
Karl Malone
Barkley
Webber
Kemp

And he'd probably be behind Rik Smits, Vin Baker, Dino Radja, and certainly Derrick Coleman.




Shut the **** up, Stu


I'm just explaining why Alonzo said what he said - and not only is penetration easier today, but post scoring is too.. The post efficiencies of today's bigs lets us know how the superior bigs of previous eras would do today - Al Jefferson and others would be considered a 2nd tier bigs in previous eras, yet they are league-leaders in post efficiency today (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-up/?dir=1&sort=PPP&CF=Poss*GE*200), and they're all at the universally-recognized standard for elite efficiency of 1.00 PPP.

This elite post efficiency from 2nd tier bigs flat-out proves today's defensive environment hasn't diminished post efficiencies... The only reason coaches don't use post-ups as much as before is because floor-spacing and the hand-check ban increased efficiencies on ball movement and dribble penetration, allowing these methods to SURPASS post-ups.. But Al Jefferson scoring 1.00 PPP on the post proves that post efficiencies THEMSELVES haven't diminished at all.

Also, if we are keeping it real, simple logic tells us that today's spacing and defensive 3 seconds rule force defenders to help from further distances on post players.. So even without the Al Jefferson proof, it makes sense that post PPP is higher today than it used to be.. After all, everything else (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) is.

[Im Still Ballin]

I don't have time for this

[Hey Yo]

"A defense that is loaded up before you attack is a lot more difficult to score on than a defense that's forced to clear out to one side and rotate over from the weak side. Also it's a lot easier to play knowing that you're either getting double/triple teamed or you'll have one whole side cleared out for you to operate, as opposed to playing against a defense that's always hovering in your vicinity but never fully committing to a hard trap so that they can cut off both the driving lane and passing lane.

Also, perimeter defenders across the board are more athletic now. There's a much greater wealth of dominant perimeter defenders now than there ever were back in MJ's day. Also, bigs across the league are in general more athletic and cover far more ground than those of years past. Sure there were a few that stand out like Olajuwon, Robinson, Mourning, Ewing, etc but across the board (ncluding non-star and backup bigs) the length and speed we have in the league now is on another level compared to the bigs MJ had to score around/over.

Now this is offset by the heightened physicality. Not only on the perimeter where players could wear you down over the course of a game with handchecking, but also on drives to the rim where those hard fouls take a lot of energy out of you. They were two completely different eras and difficult to score in their own ways, but the cerebral defenses that completely eat up space all over the court we see nowadays are more difficult to deal with."

[Poetry]

When comparing different eras and trying to figure out which one is better, really the only argument that is valid is talent pool size.

And the talent pool right now is bigger than it ever was, since basketball is bigger now than it ever was.

I was just reading about how youth participation in sports, including basketball, has been declining for years in the US. Kids are no longer as interested in playing sports as they once were.

[3ball]

I don't have time for this


That's okay - none of it matters - MJ was an off-ball player and therefore didn't rely on dribble penetration like today's wings anyway.

Ironically, off-ball players actually benefit THE MOST from spacing, less physicality and enhanced ball movement, so the only question is which part of Jordan's game would go MORE bananas in today's game - his off-ball game that had the fastest isolation pace ever (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371913), or his GOAT ball-dominator game (http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/01/michael-jordan-point-guard-in-1989-posted-triple-double-10-of-11-games)?.

He's the only guy ever that was elite at everything - the guy could morph into Stephan Curry in the 1992 Finals if needed, or score 55 in the playoffs on all JJ Redick catch-and-shoot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06ly1eN4tI) - whatever the defense gave him, he'd use elite ability to exploit.

[KirbyPls]

I was just reading about how youth participation in sports, including basketball, has been declining for years in the US. Kids are no longer as interested in playing sports as they once were.

Sweet and Sour Sauce? :pimp:

[Poetry]

Sweet and Sour Sauce? :pimp:

Here's a similar one to the study I read:

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/P1-BO944A_YOUTH_G_20140130180004.jpg

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303519404579350892629229918

It's happening in Europe too. The fear over there is that the "soccer" pool is shrinking.

[Beastmode88]

Imagine a jordan with harden's amount of free throws? :roll: :roll:

[Im Still Ballin]

Imagine a jordan with harden's amount of free throws? :roll: :roll:
Implying he didn't already get preferential treatment...

But yes valid point

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Imagine a jordan with harden's amount of free throws? :roll: :roll:

Jordan's career FTA/G is higher than Harden's. His highest single season FTA/G (11.9) is higher than Harden's too (10.2).

[KobesFinger]

Imagine a jordan with harden's amount of free throws? :roll: :roll:

Harden FTA/game for career - 7.1
Harden career high FTA/game - 10.2

Jordan FTA/game for career - 8.2 (8.7 with Chicago)
Jordan career high FTA/game - 11.9

[Poetry]

Imagine a jordan with harden's amount of free throws? :roll: :roll:

This is Harden highest scoring year. He gets 10.1 FTA on 11.2 2PA.

In '86-87 Jordan had 11.9 FTA on 27 2PA.

Is it possible that he would get 18 to 26 FTA a game?

[hitmanyr2k]

Jordan's career FTA/G is higher than Harden's. His highest single season FTA/G (11.9) is higher than Harden's too (10.2).

Context matters.

Harden takes 18 shots a game to average 10 free throws. You know how many shots Jordan had to take to average to get 11.9 free throws? 28 freakin shots a game. Jordan had to be ULTRA aggressive to get as many free throws as Harden now.

You know what makes it even worse? Jordan shot no threes whatsoever. His game was slashing and midrange. You know how many 3 pointers Harden averages? 7 freakin threes a game. 1/3 of his shots are threes and he STILL gets 10 free throws a game :oldlol:

Zo sees that kind of shit and people wonder why he spouts the hyperbole :oldlol: If Harden is getting to the line constantly shooting a ton of threes guess how many times young Jordan would get to the line with his speed and quickness in this weak era?

[G0ATbe]

Surprise, surprise. The Nostalgia ridden retards from the 90s are all the same.

[Joyner82reload]

2014 RS Durant is arguably > Jordan as a scorer. He's not putting up 50, period. Maybe 35 if he were taking 27 or 28 shots a game.

[Hey Yo]

Context matters.

Harden takes 18 shots a game to average 10 free throws. You know how many shots Jordan had to take to average to get 11.9 free throws? 28 freakin shots a game. Jordan had to be ULTRA aggressive to get as many free throws as Harden now.

You know what makes it even worse? Jordan shot no threes whatsoever. His game was slashing and midrange. You know how many 3 pointers Harden averages? 7 freakin threes a game. 1/3 of his shots are threes and he STILL gets 10 free throws a game :oldlol:

Zo sees that kind of shit and people wonder why he spouts the hyperbole :oldlol: If Harden is getting to the line constantly shooting a ton of threes guess how many times young Jordan would get to the line with his speed and quickness in this weak era?
Jordan didn't have to deal with zone defense.

Harden does.

[Beastmode88]

Jordan's career FTA/G is higher than Harden's. His highest single season FTA/G (11.9) is higher than Harden's too (10.2).

James harden has only been a starter for 3 years..

[Beastmode88]

This is Harden highest scoring year. He gets 10.1 FTA on 11.2 2PA.

In '86-87 Jordan had 11.9 FTA on 27 2PA.

Is it possible that he would get 18 to 26 FTA a game?

Yes that's very possible with the way MJ attacks the paint. They call the softest touch fouls I've ever seen. If you breathed on MJ he'd probably get fouled today.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

James harden has only been a starter for 3 years..

I was just putting the numbers out there, no agenda. Obviously context changes it, I just wasn't feeling typing out a mini-essay. :oldlol:



Context matters.

Harden takes 18 shots a game to average 10 free throws. You know how many shots Jordan had to take to average to get 11.9 free throws? 28 freakin shots a game. Jordan had to be ULTRA aggressive to get as many free throws as Harden now.

You know what makes it even worse? Jordan shot no threes whatsoever. His game was slashing and midrange. You know how many 3 pointers Harden averages? 7 freakin threes a game. 1/3 of his shots are threes and he STILL gets 10 free throws a game

Zo sees that kind of shit and people wonder why he spouts the hyperbole If Harden is getting to the line constantly shooting a ton of threes guess how many times young Jordan would get to the line with his speed and quickness in this weak era?


Thankfully someone was. :pimp:

[Poetry]

Jordan didn't have to deal with zone defense.

Zone defense is almost never played. If at it's peak it's played 10% of the time during a season by a couple of teams, that means that it's played:

NBA Game = 48 minutes.

48/10=4.8 minutes.

4.8 minutes is a 10% representation of a game.

Half of that game will be offense and half will be defense for a given team.

So 4.8/2=

2.4 minutes of zone defense during a game when a team plays it at least 10% of the time (the rest of that time, 21.6 minutes of defense will be devoted to man-to-man. The other 24 minutes they play offense). Almost none of the teams in the NBA play zone that much though.

So we're talking about less than 1 minute on average in some cases.

[Dresta]

yeah one of the greatest defensive players of all time, who played 6 years ago doesn't understand it

but nash on ish does
:roll:

[Dro]

Jordan is the better player. The margin is very slight though. Lebron's era is also tougher by a less slight margin.
:biggums:

[Hey Yo]

Zone defense is almost never played. If at it's peak it's played 10% of the time during a season by a couple of teams, that means that it's played:

NBA Game = 48 minutes.

48/10=4.8 minutes.

4.8 minutes is a 10% representation of a game.

Half of that game will be offense and half will be defense for a given team.

So 4.8/2=

2.4 minutes of zone defense during a game when a team plays it at least 10% of the time (the rest of that time, 21.6 minutes of defense will be devoted to man-to-man. The other 24 minutes they play offense). Almost none of the teams in the NBA play zone that much though.

So we're talking about less than 1 minute on average in some cases.
If it were barely used, then the rule wouldn't be necessary.

[Poetry]

If it were barely used, then the rule wouldn't be necessary.

"No team played zone on more than 10 percent of defensive possessions last season, per Synergy Sports. Dallas became known as the zone team in 2010-11, but they played a hybrid man zone more than a straight zone, and they did that on a small minority of possessions.

The league overall actually scored more efficiently against zone than man last season, according to Synergy."

Grantland, 2012

[SamuraiSWISH]

If Harden is putting up 27 a game, with like 12 coming from the foul stripe? 40 isn't out of the question given the right set of circumstances. If 37, 35, 34, 33 ppg are any indication ... it's not implausible.

[plowking]

Yeah and Wilt would have averaged 60ppg in Jordan's era, because he and his other teammates and players at the time said so.

Just how basketball and sports in general work. Gets worse and worse as we go along because the old guys said so.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Who cares what this loser thinks? Same dude that got his ass handed to him by an old ass Patrick Ewing every year in the playoffs.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Yeah and Wilt would have averaged 60ppg in Jordan's era
Shaq didn't, and he had the same physical advantages Wilt had ... maybe to a slightly lesser extent in the modern game. Wilt didn't have those advantages as greatly in the 70's either.

Who on the court today is even close to prime Jordan? Who was essentially like the best of prime Kobe, prime Wade, and prime Westbrook combined ... but better?

Who is comparable athletically, skillfully, or the relentless offensive power Jordan was on the court in his prime, in today's game?

The best offensive players are: Durant, LeBron, Harden, Westbrook, and Curry? MJ wouldn't have a field day?

[TheMan]

Jordan didn't have to deal with zone defense.

Harden does.
Again with the zone defense is the GOAT defensive scheme myth :facepalm

[Dro]

old people are stupid

i swear. every single guy from every single era thinks their era and their guys are the best and would rape any other era

"listen here kiddo!.. dag nabbit! i tell ya! wilten chamberlaned otta rack in 100 touch downs over kobey james!!"


http://i59.tinypic.com/25s3prb.jpg
I hear this argument but it just doesn't seem true...Yeah, guys like Oscar, Scottie, etc, seem to have issues saying Jordan would be dominant today or is the GOAT but for most part, when we see quotes like this from players from that era, most of them are usually in agreement that Jordan would easily be more dominant in this era......

We know Oscar prefers Lebron and Magic because their games are closer to his. He's always hated on MJ and thats with me knowing that Oscar is a legend here...Scottie is Scottie, lol..He saw MJ every damn day, every game, every practice....He knows full well Jordan would average damn near 35-40 ppg. I mean Harden hasn't shot 40% in like a month and he's leading the league in scoring yet MJ won't average 35?
:lol

:confusedshrug:

And its also silly to think that MJ couldn't score against a zone, lol....Its a zone...Like Charles said, he would never play zone as a coach because anybody with a brain can beat it. Get it into the middle, collapse the zone, kick out for easy wide open jumpers or easy mid-range shots which Jordan is close to GOAT at anyway. And lets not act like he didn't play at NC for Dean Smith...He sure as hell probably knows how to beat a zone..Also, MJ made quick decisions, he didn't sit around trying to figure out what to do next...He pretty much knows what he's going to do before he gets the ball. All the greats do from Lebron to MJ to Bird. That's why they are who they are, they are mentally and just more intelligent on the court than the average player...Jordan might be at the rim before a zone can even get set up, lol.....

[TheMan]

"No team played zone on more than 10 percent of defensive possessions last season, per Synergy Sports. Dallas became known as the zone team in 2010-11, but they played a hybrid man zone more than a straight zone, and they did that on a small minority of possessions.

The league overall actually scored more efficiently against zone than man last season, according to Synergy."

Grantland, 2012
Rat poison


But still the ISH airheads will claim that zones make this era the toughest defensively :facepalm

[houston]

man, these guys still don't understand that defense today is so much more sophisticated than what it was during the 80's and 90's.

this true indeed

[plowking]

Shaq didn't, and he had the same physical advantages Wilt had ... maybe to a slightly lesser extent in the modern game. Wilt didn't have those advantages as greatly in the 70's either.

Who on the court today is even close to prime Jordan? Who was essentially like the best of prime Kobe, prime Wade, and prime Westbrook combined ... but better?

Who is comparable athletically, skillfully, or the relentless offensive power Jordan was on the court in his prime, in today's game?

The best offensive players are: Durant, LeBron, Harden, Westbrook, and Curry? MJ wouldn't have a field day?

But Wilt and other players of his time said so, so we just have to go with it. What they say is gospel. Wilt would have averaged 60ppg.

Wilt was taller, longer, faster and stronger than Shaq by all accounts of "back in the day". We just have to go with it. Had Jordan played in Wilt's tough era, he would be on the bench! Wilt even mentions this in an interview!

Imagine Lebron or Durant in Wilt's era! Sideline reporters at best.

[3ball]

Jordan didn't have to deal with zone defense.


Today's game doesn't allow zone defense in the paint.

The NBA banned zone defense in the paint with the introduction of their new defensive 3 seconds rule, which required defenders to remain within armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) of their man at all times while inside the paint - this is the very definition of man-to-man defense, and a very strict brand of man-to-man too.

Otoh, in previous eras, the Illegal Defense Guidelines allowed defenders to legally paint-camp - legal paint-camping combined with no-spacing to make paint defense much tougher in previous eras.





Jordan didn't have to deal with zone defense.


Today's player doesn't have to deal with hand-checking, higher physicality, legal paint-camping, or no-spacing.

[3ball]

"No team played zone on more than 10 percent of defensive possessions last season.." per Synergy Sports.

"The league overall actually scored more efficiently against zone than man last season, according to Synergy."

Grantland, 2012


Rat Poison.. Additionally, zone is NEVER used inside the paint in today's game because the NBA introduced a new defensive 3 seconds rule in 2005, which banned zones inside the paint.

After the rule change, zones were only allowed outside the paint.. INSIDE the paint, the new defensive 3 seconds rule took over - this rule forced defenders to stay within armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) of their man at all times, or vacate the paint - this is the very definition of man-to-man defense.

Furthermore, it's a VERY STRICT brand of man-to-man: a man's arm is only 3 feet long and the paint is 16 x 19 feet, so paint defenders must stand right next to their man at all times, even when both players are inside the paint.

Previous era paint defenders were allowed this armslength provision too, but they could also stay in the lane if their man was OUT of armslength reach - the defender's man could be anywhere inside the paint and up to 3 feet outside the lane on either side, as stipulated in rule Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) of the Illegal Defense Guidelines:

2b. "When a defensive player is guarding an offensive player who is adjacent (posted-up) to the 3-second lane, the defensive player may be within the "inside lane" area with no time limitations. An offensive player shall be ruled as "postedup" when he is within 3' of the free throw lane line. A hash mark on the baseline denotes the 3' area."

Rule 2b allowed defenders to remain in the paint even if their man was far away - legal paint-camping, which is the same thing as a zone in the paint.. Otoh, today's game requires man-to-man defense in the paint, as stipulated by the armslength provision (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) in the defensive 3 seconds rule.

[3ball]

as opposed to playing against a defense that's always hovering in your vicinity but never fully committing to a hard trap so that they can cut off both the driving lane and passing lane - (flooding and shading)


http://s29.postimg.org/y32v1xeqv/overload.jpg


Flooding Deandre to the strongside (seen above) leaves the weakside a man down and vulnerable - the ways to exploit this were standardized years ago and are routinely used by all teams.

Whereas letting Deandre paint-camp under the rim doesn't leave the weakside vulnerable - Griffin gets to stay on Love in the near-corner, while Dandre's presence under the rim provides the best opportunity to defend against penetrators from the strongside... He's closer to Mosgov this way too.

It's been long proven that a big man's presence under the rim is the best possible position for him defensively - the only reason the strong-side flood exists is BECAUSE defenders can no longer paint-camp.





This simple isolation play would be frontside flooded with help across the lane low today.


http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2015/0107/Klay-New-03.gif


Today's defensive 3 seconds and spacing forces bigs to defend in a flood and shading-type fashion on the perimeter, instead of protecting the rim in the paint.. To execute floods and shading, bigs must come AWAY from the hoop and defend a guard off-the-dribble, as Pau is seen trying to do above.

This is a major disadvantage for the big man - essentially, today's game forces bigs to trade in their advantage of taking on smaller defenders AT the rim (previous eras paint-camping), for a disadvantage of contesting quicker players on the perimeter (today's floods and shading).

And clearly, the stats prove that today's floods and shading haven't made scoring or penetration more difficult - teams score more today than in the mid-90's and the NBA's own stats (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) show teams score via dribble-penetration more than any other scoring method..

[3ball]

A defense that is loaded up before you attack


Nobody in today's game is loading up in the paint or waiting at the rim.

Today's spacing and defensive 3 seconds forces would-be rim protectors to flood and shade OUTSIDE the paint on the perimeter (see previous post) - so once the ballhandler beats whoever is flooding/shading, there is no one protecting the rim because the shaders and flooders got beat on the perimeter.

otoh, previous era defenders just waited inside the paint..

the very reason shading and flooding was invented is specifically BECAUSE the NBA banned paint-camping.

[Paul George 24]

Defence Is Too Weak Nowadays

[sportjames23]

Jordan is the better player. The margin is very slight though. Lebron's era is also tougher by a less slight margin.


The bold is the only part you got right.