If Bran stayed in Miami

[Ca$H]

Would Bran stans give Bran credit for turning Hassan Whiteside from a scrub into a good center?

[ButterFace]

Would Bran stans give Bran credit for turning Hassan Whiteside from a scrub into a good center?

Probably.

[jrong]

Whiteside would have never been on the Heat because they would have stuck with small ball. And the Heat wouldn't have been trolling around the D-League for players because they would have still been a top 4 seed.

Other things that would never happened if LeBron didn't leave:

Wade's renaissance.
Dragic trade.
Bosh's rediscovery of his own game.
Luol Deng.
Another championship.

The Heat will be a dark horse next year in Wade's final year (probably) of being restored to primacy. But, more importantly Whiteside and Dragic are poised to lead the Heat into the future, once Wade is gone and Bosh is in his twilight years.

[IncarceratedBob]

Nobody knew who Whiteside saw last year with LeBron on the Heat

It's no surprise that James leaves and all of a sudden Whiteside is a top 15 player

[Fire Colangelo]

Whiteside would have never been on the Heat because they would have stuck with small ball. And the Heat wouldn't have been trolling around the D-League for players because they would have still been a top 4 seed.

Other things that would never happened if LeBron didn't leave:

Wade's renaissance.
Dragic trade.
Bosh's rediscovery of his own game.
Luol Deng.
Another championship.

The heat would have been a better team this year with James, but they're in a much better long-term position without him. They will at least be a dark horse next year in Wade's final year (probably) of being restored to primacy. But, more importantly Whiteside and Dragic are poised to lead the Heat into the future, once Wade is gone and Bosh is in his twilight years.

You know what would've happened if LeBron didn't leave though?

Assuming LeBron signed the same 40mil/2yr deal like he did with the Cavs.

Top 4 seed with a good chance at another deep playoffs run.
Riley wouldn't have desperately signed Bosh to a ridiculous 120mil/5yr contract.
Most likely still would've given Whiteside a chance.
No Luol Deng

Still would've had shitloads of cap space for 2016 free agency while being competitive for the next two years while keeping your 2017 and future first rounders.

[ArbitraryWater]

Whiteside would have never been on the Heat because they would have stuck with small ball. And the Heat wouldn't have been trolling around the D-League for players because they would have still been a top 4 seed.

Other things that would never happened if LeBron didn't leave:

Wade's renaissance.
Dragic trade.
Bosh's rediscovery of his own game.
Luol Deng.
Another championship.

The heat would have been a better team this year with James, but they're in a much better long-term position without him. They will at least be a dark horse next year in Wade's final year (probably) of being restored to primacy. But, more importantly Whiteside and Dragic are poised to lead the Heat into the future, once Wade is gone and Bosh is in his twilight years.

1st bold: This never happened
2nd bold: lol

Agreed with the rest.. It pisses me off with Wade :mad:

What the hell was the deal last finals? Why couldn't he perform like this? couldn't motivate himself? mental block?

[jrong]

You know what would've happened if LeBron didn't leave though?

Assuming LeBron signed the same 40mil/2yr deal like he did with the Cavs.

Top 4 seed with a good chance at another deep playoffs run.
Riley wouldn't have desperately signed Bosh to a ridiculous 120mil/5yr contract.
Most likely still would've given Whiteside a chance.
No Luol Deng

Still would've had shitloads of cap space for 2016 free agency while being competitive for the next two years while keeping your 2017 and future first rounders.

Ok, I'll play. Here's some other things that would have happened if LeBron stayed.

Wade maintenance plan: the sequel
Wade 14 FGA; Bosh 12 FGA
Bosh: 16 pts, 8 rebounds
Bosh the spot-up shooter, part V
Wade forced to squeeze into the sidekick costume again and performing nowhere near his max capacity
Chalmers/ Cole PG tandem!
"LeBron needs more help!"
A probable return to the Finals where they would have been roadkill for the WC champs again
LeBron leaves in 2016 (or 15) when Wade/ Bosh are even older

And I think it's a stretch that they would have still gotten Whiteside (and they definitely wouldn't have had Dragic). The Heat were infatuated with small ball. It took Spo and co. half the season to figure out that small ball doesn't work at all with that roster unless James is on it. If he were still on the team, it would create the illusion that it was working, and they would be deluding themselves into thinking it was the path to another title.


Agreed with the rest.. It pisses me off with Wade

What the hell was the deal last finals? Why couldn't he perform like this? couldn't motivate himself? mental block?

I'll quote myself from above.


Wade forced to squeeze into the sidekick costume again and performing nowhere near his max capacity

LeBron and Wade fulfill the exact same role on court. You're never going to maximize both players. It's not the same as Kyrie and LeBron or Shaq and Kobe or... any two teammates in the history of the league, really.

LeBron had to leave for this version of Wade to reemerge. Otherwise, the only thing Wade could offer was ultra-efficiency. When he was efficient, they won. When he wasn't, they didn't.

[r15mohd]

Whiteside would have never been on the Heat because they would have stuck with small ball. And the Heat wouldn't have been trolling around the D-League for players because they would have still been a top 4 seed.

Other things that would never happened if LeBron didn't leave:

Wade's renaissance.
Dragic trade.
Bosh's rediscovery of his own game.
Luol Deng.
Another championship.

The Heat will be a dark horse next year in Wade's final year (probably) of being restored to primacy. But, more importantly Whiteside and Dragic are poised to lead the Heat into the future, once Wade is gone and Bosh is in his twilight years.

wasn't Deng signed prior to their push in retaining Lebron? :confusedshrug: they all agreed to restructure in bringing someone like Lowry/Deng/Ariza in, so one of those would have landed regardless if Lebron re-signed or not.

another championship run was likely as well, who exactly is stopping them in the East at another shot for the title?

the 2015-16 Heat team would of been a bit better than the 2014 that went out 1-4 against the Spurs:

Bosh
Lebron
Deng/Ariza
Wade
Napier/Chalmers

[jrong]

wasn't Deng signed prior to their push in retaining Lebron? :confusedshrug: they all agreed to restructure in bringing someone like Lowry/Deng/Ariza in, so one of those would have landed regardless if Lebron re-signed or not.

another championship run was likely as well, who exactly is stopping them in the East at another shot for the title?

the 2015-16 Heat team would of been a bit better than the 2014 that went out 1-4 against the Spurs:

Bosh
Lebron
Deng/Ariza
Wade
Napier/Chalmers

No, Deng was signed to replace LeBron. McRoberts and Granger were added beforehand. McRoberts is out for the year and Granger was a non-factor and is gone already. The only remaining new addition from before LeBron left is Napier, whose impact has been marginal thus far and probably would have remained behind Chalmers and Cole on the depth chart.

[Hey Yo]

Ok, I'll play. Here's some other things that would have happened if LeBron stayed.

Wade maintenance plan: the sequel
Wade 14 FGA; Bosh 12 FGA
Bosh: 16 pts, 8 rebounds
Bosh the spot-up shooter, part V
Wade forced to squeeze into the sidekick costume again and performing nowhere near his max capacity
Chalmers/ Cole PG tandem!
"LeBron needs more help!"
A probable return to the Finals where they would have been roadkill for the WC champs again
LeBron leaves in 2016 (or 15) when Wade/ Bosh are even older

And I think it's a stretch that they would have still gotten Whiteside (and they definitely wouldn't have had Dragic). The Heat were infatuated with small ball. It took Spo and co. half the season to figure out that small ball doesn't work at all with that roster unless James is on it. If he were still on the team, it would create the illusion that it was working, and they would be deluding themselves into thinking it was the path to another title.

LeBron and Wade fulfill the exact same role on court. You're never going to maximize both players. It's not the same as Kyrie and LeBron or Shaq and Kobe or... any two teammates in the history of the league, really.

LeBron had to leave for this version of Wade to reemerge. Otherwise, the only thing Wade could offer was ultra-efficiency. When he was efficient, they won. When he wasn't, they didn't.
How come there was never a LeBron maintenance plan? How come he didn't get the luxury of sitting out healthy, while collecting a check, watching Wade bust his ass carrying the team night after night?

Maybe that's why James left. Got tired of taking less money while carrying the whole load all the while "healthy Wade" gets to sit and watch.

I'm sure it's just mere coincidence that Wade's health is better this year. Especially ever since Bosh went down.

[ArbitraryWater]

Ok, I'll play. Here's some other things that would have happened if LeBron stayed.

Wade maintenance plan: the sequel
Wade 14 FGA; Bosh 12 FGA
Bosh: 16 pts, 8 rebounds
Bosh the spot-up shooter, part V
Wade forced to squeeze into the sidekick costume again and performing nowhere near his max capacity
Chalmers/ Cole PG tandem!
"LeBron needs more help!"
A probable return to the Finals where they would have been roadkill for the WC champs again
LeBron leaves in 2016 (or 15) when Wade/ Bosh are even older

And I think it's a stretch that they would have still gotten Whiteside (and they definitely wouldn't have had Dragic). The Heat were infatuated with small ball. It took Spo and co. half the season to figure out that small ball doesn't work at all with that roster unless James is on it. If he were still on the team, it would create the illusion that it was working, and they would be deluding themselves into thinking it was the path to another title.



I'll quote myself from above.



LeBron and Wade fulfill the exact same role on court. You're never going to maximize both players. It's not the same as Kyrie and LeBron or Shaq and Kobe or... any two teammates in the history of the league, really.

LeBron had to leave for this version of Wade to reemerge. Otherwise, the only thing Wade could offer was ultra-efficiency. When he was efficient, they won. When he wasn't, they didn't.

There is such a huge difference between his 2014 and 2015 self though.. they both played at MVP Level in 2011, it was possible, it worked, and it IMO was their BEST TEAM.

[dubeta]

If Wiggins and Waiters stay in Cleveland, and continued their mediocre play, would people like OP say its because Bran turned them into spot-up shooters?

[Fire Colangelo]

Ok, I'll play. Here's some other things that would have happened if LeBron stayed.

Wade maintenance plan: the sequel
Wade 14 FGA; Bosh 12 FGA
Bosh: 16 pts, 8 rebounds
Bosh the spot-up shooter, part V
Wade forced to squeeze into the sidekick costume again and performing nowhere near his max capacity
Chalmers/ Cole PG tandem!
"LeBron needs more help!"
A probable return to the Finals where they would have been roadkill for the WC champs again
LeBron leaves in 2016 (or 15) when Wade/ Bosh are even older

And I think it's a stretch that they would have still gotten Whiteside (and they definitely wouldn't have had Dragic). The Heat were infatuated with small ball. It took Spo and co. half the season to figure out that small ball doesn't work at all with that roster unless James is on it. If he were still on the team, it would create the illusion that it was working, and they would be deluding themselves into thinking it was the path to another title.

Well this is all hypothetical, but I think the Heat would have a lot more flexibility with their future moves had LeBron stayed.

A lot of these are assumptions but:

I think there would've been a LeBron maintenance plan as well so Wade and Bosh would've had chances to shine individually.

Bosh isn't exactly a post up player, yes he'll have a couple of plays from the post but he gets most of his off of that deadly midrange jumper of his (and now that he added the 3 to his arsenal).

Anyways, like you said they likely make it out of the East had LeBron stayed with a chance at another title. The only reason it'd be a "road" kill is because they'd be Bosh-less for the season, which is better than fighting for the 8th spot in the playoffs imo.

I don't think the Heat were infatuated with small ball at all, they wanted to go big (hence Birdman and Oden signings) but good big men are just hard to find nowadays. They likely would've still had Whiteside, but he would've been on the bench a lot longer. Though he most likely would've gotten Spo's attention with a few monster rebound/block games by this time.




I'll quote myself from above.



LeBron and Wade fulfill the exact same role on court. You're never going to maximize both players. It's not the same as Kyrie and LeBron or Shaq and Kobe or... any two teammates in the history of the league, really.

LeBron had to leave for this version of Wade to reemerge. Otherwise, the only thing Wade could offer was ultra-efficiency. When he was efficient, they won. When he wasn't, they didn't.

This version of Wade is good, but not great. Wade is a shell of his former self (that alone says how good of player he is). Wade is a great off ball player as well, but he never really has the chance to showcase that anymore since he's pretty much handling the ball more often than not.

What I'm trying to say is, even if they don't win these two seasons they still would've been competitive. Both LeBron and Wade comes off the books by 2016 and Bosh would've been on a shorter+cheaper contract. Even if they don't sign Tragic and Whiteside never gets discovered, they have all the cap space in the world to retool, or tank and get a top draft pick in 2017.

^ I think that's a LOT better than fighting for an 8th spot this year and fighting for mediocrecy next year with no room for 2016 free agency (Whiteside and Dragic gonna get paid), and no pick in 2017 and whatever other pick they gave away for Dragic.

But, yeah all hypotheticals and difference in opinion. I really hope Whiteside and Dragic work out for the heat, and hopefully Bosh would be back at full strength next year without Wade declining too much.

[Fire Colangelo]

There is such a huge difference between his 2014 and 2015 self though.. they both played at MVP Level in 2011, it was possible, it worked, and it IMO was their BEST TEAM.

Team wise, I think 2012 was the best Heat team.

Wade was still playing at top 5-10 player level, and the whole team just had everything figured out, everybody knew their roles. LeBron was at his best as well.

[Achilleas]

If Bran stayed in Miami


Would Bran stans give Bran credit for turning Hassan Whiteside from a scrub into a good center?

his stans yes
his ant- stans no
simple as that

[jrong]

they both played at MVP Level in 2011, it was possible, it worked, and it IMO was their BEST TEAM.

I agree, but you still weren't touching the ceiling of either guy's performance. LeBron went 27/7 that year while Wade went 26/4 (his lowest apg total since his rookie year-- he mostly focused on scoring that year).

So not only did Wade specifically sacrifice playmaking, both guys greatly sacrificed their overall stats in general. If they were on different teams, it seems pretty obvious that they would have been far and away the top two MVP candidates, most likely both at 30+ and 7+.

[plowking]

Jesus, jrong is delusional.

He is acting as if the Heat rediscovered something after Bron left. We're a 30-36 team, that more than likely won't make above .500 and it is highly likely we won't make the playoffs.

Given the balance of the league right now, and the top teams at the moment, we more than likely would be favourites to win the league right now with Bron in the team. Even with Whiteside, Dragic and others not in the team, and all the while still playing small ball. Not ideal, but whatever.


I'm glad we got rid of Bron anyway. It allowed us to go back to traditional ball, and forced Riley's hand into picking up a big man. It also proved how overrated a coach Spo is, and hopefully soon he'll be sacked.
If Bosh does recover, Whiteside, Bosh, Dragic and Beasley next season playing the majority of the games will be a good team. Then Wade will chip in for 60 games and make us even better.
I can see us being a 50 win team with a better coach and most players healthy.