Is Tony Parker one of the worst players in the NBA right now?

[Milbuck]

- Shitty on both ends of the floor

- 90th out of 93 PGs in overall RPM

- 2nd to last (502nd out of 503) in the entire NBA in defensive RPM

- 101 ORTG, 107 DRTG

- Out of players with 25mpg+, 164th out of 196 players in points per touch

- Net on/off of -8.1 (w/ TP, Spurs are 1.9 worse on offense and 6.3 worse on defense)

On his own team....

- 14th in BPM, 11th in TS%, tied for 14th in WS/48, 12th in ORTG, dead last in DRTG, all while being 2nd in usage, and perhaps the most important figure....#1 in salary.


He's obviously having a shitty season by his own standards, but how terrible is he beyond his own standards?

[T_L_P]

I've been saying it for a while...outside of 2012, 2013 and the 2007 Playoffs, Parker hasn't been a very good player at all.

He has somewhat similar numbers last postseason too. The guy has literally been a net negative on three of his four title teams (07 being the exception).

[IncarceratedBob]

He's probably exhausted from carrying the Spurs to the playoffs the last 8+ years.

[G0ATbe]

He's probably exhausted from carrying the Spurs to the playoffs the last 10+ years.
This.

[Milbuck]

I've said it for a long time, outside of 2012 and 2013 (and the 2007 Playoffs), Parker isn't a very good player at all.

He has somewhat similar numbers last postseason too. The guy has literally been a net negative on three of his four title teams (07 being the exception).
I never really noticed it until last season, particularly in the postseason. Dude has been getting clumped with the Spurs success for so long it's blinded people to the gaping holes in his game. We're finally seeing it all exposed now.

Dude is abysmal on defense, he's an over dribbling ball movement killer on offense, poor shooter relative to the rest of his team, probably the most easily shut down star player in the league...at least that's what I saw last season. I'm guessing that's all still in play but even worse this year.

I don't think he was terrible before last year though. Think for the most part he was a stud. Had his ups and downs but wasn't nearly as bad as he looks now and last year.

[T_L_P]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=Y&year_min=1980&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=g&c1comp=gt&c1val=15&c2stat=usg_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=25&c3stat=ws_per_48&c3comp=lt&c3val=.075&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

That company. :bowdown:

Would have been there in 03 too if his Usage was a little higher.

[tpols]

He's worn out by now.. he carried the spurs in the transition period between duncan exiting his prime in 08 09 ish and resurgence around 2013.. where he was just doing his role player thang. Shit parker would have 2 Fmvp if Manu and kawhi could hit a ft.


Aging is harder on guards than big men especially guards who rely on quickness.. that's one of the first things to go. Strength and length never go away.. KG had one of his best defensive seasons ever as an old cripple in 2012.

[T_L_P]

He's probably exhausted from carrying the Spurs to the playoffs the last 8+ years.

Remember when the Spurs came back from a halftime deficit with his ass parked on the bench?

Remember them going 12-4 without him in his only MVP-worthy season?

[SCdac]

He's definitely having a weak season, and he's on the wrong side of 30 (turns 33 in may), but he was never really a super star anyways. He's been overrated by casual fans, perhaps underrated by some Spurs fans. Much like many of the Spurs best players (Kawhi, Manu, etc.) if you gave them a larger role on a team with less options and he'd probably get alot more touches and he'd work his way out of a slump quicker. Would their record be great idk, but would probably have better offensive stats.

[Young X]

He's worn out by now.. he carried the spurs in the transition period between duncan exiting his prime in 08 09 ish and resurgence around 2013.. where he was just doing his role player thang. Shit parker would have 2 Fmvp if Manu and kawhi could hit a ft.He was never better than Duncan.

[Lebronxrings]

He's probably exhausted from carrying the Spurs to the playoffs the last 8+ years.
...

[Fire Colangelo]

Well yeah, a guard that doesn't have the greatest shot, and relies mostly on his quickness is going to decline pretty fast past 30 years of age...

[IllegalD]

Delusional Duncan Stans underrating Parker hardcore to prop up their boy who hasn't been Finals MVP in over a decade... :facepalm :lol

[T_L_P]

He's worn out by now.. he carried the spurs in the transition period between duncan exiting his prime in 08 09 ish and resurgence around 2013.. where he was just doing his role player thang. Shit parker would have 2 Fmvp if Manu and kawhi could hit a ft.


Aging is harder on guards than big men especially guards who rely on quickness.. that's one of the first things to go. Strength and length never go away.. KG had one of his best defensive seasons ever as an old cripple in 2012.

2010 Spurs (Duncan / Manu / Parker)

PER: 24.7 / 22.5 / 16.3

WS: 10.9 / 9.7 / 3.6

WS/48: .215 / .216 / .101

BPM: 5.6 / 6.3 / -1.7

Manu was the clear-cut best Spur from 09-12. Tim was the clear-cut second best Spur (in Duncan's' worst season, he still had a higher PER, WS, BPM, RAPM than Parker).

:oldlol: Calling Duncan a role player from 09-13 even though he was still clearly better than Parker.

:oldlol: Saying Parker carried the Spurs when he wasn't even the team's best player.

:oldlol: Blaming missed FTs when he got outscored by Mario Chalmers in games 6 and 7 and shot 9 of 35.

[tpols]

He was never better than Duncan.

2012 parker was 5th in MVP voting.. .274 votes to Duncan's 14th place .002.. that should clue you in on who everyone thought the engine was that year. That's a wide gap.

Parker actually finished ahead of Tim duncan every year from 09 to 13 in mvp voting and he was a shot away from his second fmvp.

Way spurs fans talk about him you'd think he was a scrub.. Clearly that's not what the case has been.

[GOBB]

- Shitty on both ends of the floor

- 90th out of 93 PGs in overall RPM

- 2nd to last (502nd out of 503) in the entire NBA in defensive RPM

- 101 ORTG, 107 DRTG

- Out of players with 25mpg+, 164th out of 196 players in points per touch

- Net on/off of -8.1 (w/ TP, Spurs are 1.9 worse on offense and 6.3 worse on defense)

On his own team....

- 14th in BPM, 11th in TS%, tied for 14th in WS/48, 12th in ORTG, dead last in DRTG, all while being 2nd in usage, and perhaps the most important figure....#1 in salary.


He's obviously having a shitty season by his own standards, but how terrible is he beyond his own standards?


No its MCW

[tpols]

2010 Spurs (Duncan / Manu / Parker)

PER: 24.7 / 22.5 / 16.3

WS: 10.9 / 9.7 / 3.6

WS/48: .215 / .216 / .101

BPM: 5.6 / 6.3 / -1.7

Manu was the clear-cut best Spur from 09-12. Tim was the clear-cut second best Spur (in Duncan's' worst season, he still had a higher PER, WS, BPM, RAPM than Parker).

:oldlol: Calling Duncan a role player from 09-13 even though he was still clearly better than Parker.

:oldlol: Saying Parker carried the Spurs when he wasn't even the team's best player.

:oldlol: Blaming missed FTs when he got outscored by Mario Chalmers in games 6 and 7 and shot 9 of 35.

Bruh he closed every close game for you guys.. he was the only spur capable of dribbling against a pressure defense and when Danny green went into his she'll after a hot start space became even tighter.

He won you guys game one with the swivel shot.. and should've won you game six when he brought the spurs out of a deficit single handedly and gave them a clinching lead MANU choked away.. as he was choking the whole series that year. Duncan of course blowing game tying layups against small forwards smh

[T_L_P]

Bruh he closed every close game for you guys.. he was the only spur capable of dribbling against a pressure defense and when Danny green went into his she'll after a hot start space became even tighter.

He won you guys game one with the swivel shot.. and should've won you game six when he brought the spurs out of a deficit single handedly and gave them a clinching lead MANU choked away.. as he was choking the whole series that year. Duncan of course blowing game tying layups against small forwards smh

Leave it to a Kobe stan to cherry pick moments over the course of a series.

If Parker could have shot 33% we wouldn't have needed those buckets. What you're saying is, a player going 1-30 is fine as long as that one make saved the game? Good looks.

Way to skip past those 2010 numbers too. I thought MVParker was carrying though?

Duncan from 09-12 (his worst years and Parker's best) had a higher PER, more WS, a better WS/48 and BPM in both the Regular Season and the Playoffs.

Parker was the only All-NBA Spur last season...according to you that means he was the best player, because he was regarded as such by the general public/media. :oldlol:

TIL 2014 Parker was better than Leonard, Duncan and Ginobili. Thanks tpols.

[Young X]

2012 parker was 5th in MVP voting.. .274 votes to Duncan's 14th place .002.. that should clue you in on who everyone thought the engine was that year. That's a wide gap.

Parker actually finished ahead of Tim duncan every year from 09 to 13 in mvp voting and he was a shot away from his second fmvp.

Way spurs fans talk about him you'd think he was a scrub.. Clearly that's not what the case has been.MVP votes? That's what made him a more impactful player than Duncan? Come on dawg. :oldlol:

Nothing Parker does on the offensive end can match up to Duncan's rebounding/defensive impact along with his offense. It's not like Parker is Steve ****ing Nash or something.

[tpols]

Leave it to a Kobe stan to cherry pick moments over the course of a series.

If Parker could have shot 33% we wouldn't have needed those buckets. What you're saying is, a player going 1-30 is fine as long as that one make saved the game? Good looks.

Way to skip past those 2010 numbers too. I thought MVParker was carrying though?

Duncan from 09-12 (his worst years and Parker's best) had a higher PER, more WS, a better WS/48 and BPM in both the Regular Season and the Playoffs.

Parker was the only All-NBA Spur last season...according to you that means he was the best player, because he was regarded as such by the general public/media. :oldlol:

TIL 2014 Parker was better than Leonard, Duncan and Ginobili. Thanks tpols.

I didn't say anything about all nba teams.. I mentioned mvp finishes.. when there's two teammates and a huge gap.. what is that telling you?

Parker was the creator in 2013 series.. no one else could handle the ball against a still prime heat defense.. Manu was off.. parker was the driving force of that team.. it's why they had lebron on him at the end of games.

There are certain sequences in games that do matter more than others.. points don't come the same and if parker had been hitting more earlier it's possible one of the heat may have too.. there's no telling. What is known however is that parker was clutch in that series and was the best momentum dictator out of either team in the close games.

Gdamn you ray allen..:lol if he misses that shot non of you duncan stans could say shit.

[mehyaM24]

BPM, winshares and ortg are all team stats. adjusted numbers that are heavily influenced by your teammates on the court.

his rpm is of a concern, but like others said, the injuries and having to carry the load with manu has done his body a disservice. he was arguably the spurs' best player in 2012, 2013 - he and manu have been probably the best backcourt for half a decade now.

dude is playing hurt, but his ability and impact shouldn't be questioned. its like popovich said - without him, the spurs aren't winning anything.

[RoseCity07]

No. Chris Kaman, Thomas Robinson, and a few other guys are worse. Too tired to think of them. Chris Kaman really is just awful.

[rmt]

2012 parker was 5th in MVP voting.. .274 votes to Duncan's 14th place .002.. that should clue you in on who everyone thought the engine was that year. That's a wide gap.

Parker actually finished ahead of Tim duncan every year from 09 to 13 in mvp voting and he was a shot away from his second fmvp.

Way spurs fans talk about him you'd think he was a scrub.. Clearly that's not what the case has been.

You're delusional if you think Parker would have gotten FMVP in 2013.

2013 Finals
Duncan 18.9 pts / 12.1 rebs / 1.4 asst / 1.4 blks 49% ORtg 112 DRtg 104
Parker 15.7 pts / 6.4 asst 41.2% ORtg 103 DRtg 113

2013 Finals game 6
Duncan 30 pts / 16 rebs 61.9% ORtg 130 DRtg 106
Parker 19 pts / 8 assts 26.1% ORtg 100 DRtg 112

2013 Finals game 7
Duncan 24 pts / 12 rebs 44.4% ORtg 113 DRtg 97
Parker 10 pts / 4 assts 25% ORtg 82 DRtg 107

Like most Kobe stans, you have an agenda to discredit Duncan. Look at those series numbers and stats for games 6 and 7 and tell me with a straight face that Parker would have won FMVP over Duncan. And don't give me any bs about whatever last minute shot TP made (shooting atrocious averages of 26.1% and 25% those last 2 games). That's comparable to Parker "closing" out 2014 game 5 (when Spurs were already up big) after going 0-10 through the first 3 quarters when the game was up for grabs.

[mehyaM24]

You're delusional if you think Parker would have gotten FMVP in 2013.

2013 Finals
Duncan 18.9 pts / 12.1 rebs / 1.4 asst / 1.4 blks 49% ORtg 112 DRtg 104
Parker 15.7 pts / 6.4 asst 41.2% ORtg 103 DRtg 113

2013 Finals game 6
Duncan 30 pts / 16 rebs 61.9% ORtg 130 DRtg 106
Parker 19 pts / 8 assts 26.1% ORtg 100 DRtg 112

2013 Finals game 7
Duncan 24 pts / 12 rebs 44.4% ORtg 113 DRtg 97
Parker 10 pts / 4 assts 25% ORtg 82 DRtg 107

ortg and drtg are heavily team influenced. unless you're comparing teams, please stop posting them. thanks.

[tpols]

^^^

It was a GUARANTEE that if ray Allens shot hadn't gone in parker wouldve gotten the fmvp because he was leading the spurs in scoring and had just led them out of a deficit to close the game in the last few minutes.

It would be similar to paul pierce winning over KG in 08.. he only scored slightly more but he was the closer.
And fmvp almost always goes to the best offensive player/highest scorer. Just how it is.


If the spurs had won game 7? Yes duncan would've won. But he choked in the last minute and decided his own destiny. The Spurs most probable chance at winning however occurred at the end of game six where tony came through and was the clear fmvp after the sequence of events that wold be fresh in everybody's mind + being the leading scorer at the time.

[T_L_P]

being the leading scorer at the time.

After game 6:

Parker 16.7 PPG on 43/29/69

Duncan 18.0 on 50/-/77

:hammerhead:

[tpols]

After game 6:

Parker 16.7 PPG on 43/29/69

Duncan 18.0 on 50/-/77

:hammerhead:

You right but this is the sequence that was in everybodys mind... that would have decided the award.


Spurs were leading after halftime.. built their lead up to double digits even. and then Lebron goes OFF.

Spurs drop a double digit lead and are down 86-89 with two minutes left in the game. Momentums gone and theyre hardcore choking a ring away.

Tony Parker bangs a three right on lebron to tie the game. Then he STEALS the ball and hits another shot to give them the lead. This was with all the momentum going the heats way after they come back and tony parker makes three straight plays to give the spurs all the momentum and basically clinch a championship.


Meanwhile Tim Duncan was held SCORELESS in the 4th and OT.. with pretty much all his points coming in pressure-less first half. Tony Parker was the guy who closed the game out and his points were pretty much irreplaceable something that could not be said of Duncan's.

Thats the sequence that was fresh in everybodys minds along with how he closed game 1.. he got all the big buckets for your team and all you do is shit on him. Its pretty funny actually.


Comparing timmy D's points to parkers is like comparing an interception in the first quarter to a pick six in OT.

[rmt]

^^^

It was a GUARANTEE that if ray Allens shot hadn't gone in parker wouldve gotten the fmvp because he was leading the spurs in scoring and had just led them out of a deficit to close the game in the last few minutes.

It would be similar to paul pierce winning over KG in 08.. he only scored slightly more but he was the closer.
And fmvp almost always goes to the best offensive player/highest scorer. Just how it is.


If the spurs had won game 7? Yes duncan would've won. But he choked in the last minute and decided his own destiny. The Spurs most probable chance at winning however occurred at the end of game six where tony came through and was the clear fmvp after the sequence of events that wold be fresh in everybody's mind + being the leading scorer at the time.

Parker was NOT leading the Spurs in scoring. Parker had a total of 110 points for the series. He scored 10 pts in game 7 and 2 pts in overtime of game 6 - that's 98 points when Allen hit his 3 pter. Duncan scored 132 points for the series. He scored 24 points in game 7 - that's 108 points when Allen hit his 3 pter. Duncan's 108 pts to Parker's 98 pts plus Duncan's overwhelming advantage on the defensive side would have given Duncan FMVP.

[Eric Cartman]

Parker had a great finals the year they lost to the Heat, thing was he injured his hamstring and was garbage after the injury, but before, the Heat didn't have an answer for the French Torpedo.

[tpols]

Parker was NOT leading the Spurs in scoring. Parker had a total of 110 points for the series. He scored 10 pts in game 7 and 2 pts in overtime of game 6 - that's 98 points when Allen hit his 3 pter. Duncan scored 132 points for the series. He scored 24 points in game 7 - that's 108 points when Allen hit his 3 pter. Duncan's 108 pts to Parker's 98 pts plus Duncan's overwhelming advantage on the defensive side would have given Duncan FMVP.


Parkers offensive real plus minus in 2013 was 3.7.. Duncan's was 1.0..

it's like when you see a big like dwight average 20ppg on great percentages higher volume and FG than a guy like manu.. but manus real offensive impact on the team blows dwight away and is seen in the rpm.

Duncan was an offensive role player. His numbers don't even reflect all star offensive impact. Parker's on the other hand are all star plus material and show his penetration and ability to break down the defense greatly impact the offense more than a screen setter and dump off put back man like duncan.

And fmvp has never been about defense otherwise big Ben and KG would have an award.. they look for the best offensive player for the award.

[rmt]

Parkers offensive real plus minus in 2013 was 3.7.. Duncan's was 1.0..

it's like when you see a big like dwight average 20ppg on great percentages higher volume and FG than a guy like manu.. but manus real offensive impact on the team blows dwight away and is seen in the rpm.

Duncan was an offensive role player. His numbers don't even reflect all star offensive impact. Parker's on the other hand are all star plus material and show his penetration and ability to break down the defense greatly impact the offense more than a screen setter and dump off put back man like duncan.

And fmvp has never been about defense otherwise big Ben and KG would have an award.. they look for the best offensive player for the award.

You're back-tracking on your statement that the highest scorer almost always wins FMVP since I've proved that Duncan was the highest scorer as of Allen's 3 pter. As far as your offensive real plus minus stats, Blair's was 6.8, De Colo's was 5.3 and Danny Green's was 3.7 so I guess they must all have been more important than Parker.

[tpols]

You're back-tracking on your statement that the highest scorer almost always wins FMVP since I've proved that Duncan was the highest scorer as of Allen's 3 pter. As far as offensive real plus minus, Blair's was 6.8, De Colo's was 5.3 and Danny Green's was 3.7 so I guess they must all have been more important than Parker.

You have to compare players in similar roles smh.. not bench scrubs.

And it's not an end all be all if a player is 3.0 and another is 2.9 the 3 is better but it gives a glimpse of how the offensive boxscore numbers translate to team offensive impact.

Danny green was amazing in 2013 though.. he fking broke the 3PT shooting record.. pop molded him perfect. He was kinda like Korver this year except he stepped up on the biggest stage.

It should clue you in when green parker manu all have signifigantly higher rating than duncan.. more than triple his score.. the Spurs were blowing open games with parker/manu penetration + all time great shooting. Duncan had little to do with it.

And on top of that parker was the bona-fide closer..

[rmt]

tpols, you just can't admit that even by your own criteria Duncan would have won FMVP. He had MORE POINTS, rebounds, blocks, minutes, higher FT% and FG% than Parker plus the whole other half of the court called DEFENSE. All Parker had on him are assists and steals (TP had 1 more steal than TD).

[DatAsh]

No way was Parker a better player than Duncan 09-14, not even close.

Duncan's a better defensive player than Parker is an offensive player, and he's also a better offensive player than Parker is a defensive player.

Parker is one of the most overrated guys in the media, MVP voting is indicative of that. Duncan is arguably the most underrated guy in the league.

If it had to choose a Spurs best player from 09-14, it'd probably be Duncan.

[DatAsh]

tpols, you just can't admit that even by your own criteria Duncan would have won FMVP. He had MORE POINTS, rebounds, blocks, minutes, higher FT% and FG% than Parker plus the whole other half of the court called DEFENSE. All Parker had on him are assists and steals (TP had 1 more steal than TD).

Parker getting FMVP for that series would be a mistake, though not unlikely given how the media overrates ppg. Pierce won over Garnett in 2008 even though Garnett was significantly better when you account for defense.

It's hard to watch everyone on defense. It's easy to watch the guy with the ball in his hands. That's pretty much what it comes down to.

[BasedTom]

Parker is garbage in every sense of the word.

[rmt]

Parker getting FMVP for that series would be a mistake, though not unlikely given how the media overrates ppg. Pierce won over Garnett in 2008 even though Garnett was significantly better when you account for defense.

It's hard to watch everyone on defense. It's easy to watch the guy with the ball in his hands. That's pretty much what it comes down to.

My point is that for the series, even disregarding his defense, Duncan (18.9 pts) averaged more ppg than Parker (15.7 pts), but tpols would argue that because of the timing of Parker's shots, he would have gotten FMVP over Duncan. I say no way.

[Artillery]

:oldlol: tpols salty as **** about Duncan finishing his career ahead of Kobe in the all-time lists

[nba_55]

tpols, you just can't admit that even by your own criteria Duncan would have won FMVP. He had MORE POINTS, rebounds, blocks, minutes, higher FT% and FG% than Parker plus the whole other half of the court called DEFENSE. All Parker had on him are assists and steals (TP had 1 more steal than TD).

tpols is a flip flopper, he changes his opinions, criterias by minutes ( to fit his own agenda).

[KirbyPls]

2012 parker was 5th in MVP voting.. .274 votes to Duncan's 14th place .002.. that should clue you in on who everyone thought the engine was that year. That's a wide gap.

Parker actually finished ahead of Tim duncan every year from 09 to 13 in mvp voting and he was a shot away from his second fmvp.

Way spurs fans talk about him you'd think he was a scrub.. Clearly that's not what the case has been.

Great. Kobe fans spending ~98% of their post hating media MVP voting until it comes to Duncan (a player they fear/know) is better than their idol; obvious hypocrisy is obvious. Duncan is the Spurs engine, always has been, and he is a top 5 player of all time.

[KirbyPls]

:oldlol: tpols salty as **** about Duncan finishing his career ahead of Kobe in the all-time lists

/thread

[KirbyPls]

tpols is a flip flopper, he changes his opinions, criterias by minutes ( to fit his own agenda).

This too.

[Milbuck]

No way was Parker a better player than Duncan 09-14, not even close.

Duncan's a better defensive player than Parker is an offensive player, and he's also a better offensive player than Parker is a defensive player.

Parker is one of the most overrated guys in the media, MVP voting is indicative of that. Duncan is arguably the most underrated guy in the league.

If it had to choose a Spurs best player from 09-14, it'd probably be Duncan.
Are you talking about the general span from 09 to 14, or every individual year from 09 to 14?

[Smoke117]

Are you talking about the general span from 09 to 14, or every individual year from 09 to 14?

It doesn't matter. Duncan is better.

[Artillery]

Great. Kobe fans spending ~98% of their post hating media MVP voting until it comes to Duncan (a player they fear/know) is better than their idol; obvious hypocrisy is obvious. Duncan is the Spurs engine, always has been, and he is a top 5 player of all time.

Funniest thing in this thread is tpols bringing up rpm and other impact stats when he's spent years talking about how unreliable these numbers are(because they reveal that Kobe's been a shitty defender his entire career).

[mehyaM24]

we're not talking about manu here, who when healthy, has been the spurs' best player for several years now. parker's only case for being a better player than duncan was in 2013 and MAYBE in 2012. parker and manu, the spurs' backcourt, have been the cog to the spurs' success since 2007, so roughly half a decade.

[Milbuck]

It doesn't matter. Duncan is better.
There's a difference between individual years and a period of years you ****ing moron.

Now get out of my thread.

[tpols]

Great. Kobe fans spending ~98% of their post hating media MVP voting until it comes to Duncan (a player they fear/know) is better than their idol; obvious hypocrisy is obvious. Duncan is the Spurs engine, always has been, and he is a top 5 player of all time.

I don't hate mvp finishes.. the top 5 or top 10 are usually ok is just the order gets switched around wrong sometimes at the top based on the arbitrary 'you need a good team' rule. All I'm saying.. parker was top 5 at one point.. Duncan 14th.. Duncan dipped a bit right as parker was at peak age.. it's not crazy to say he was at least on his level.. this is a guy with a handful of top 10 mvp finishes. He's a really good player. But spurs fans love to shit on him for some reason.

Even shit on his gutsy 2013 performance where he's out there limping banging clutch Shots on a 6'9 super freak.. little french guy lol. That was some Isaiah Thomas lite inspiring stuff. Yet they swing frim Timmy nuts because he got a few put backs on a weak Frontline in the second quarter.

How little they forget Roy hibbert looked like fking shaq against the heat and David West like prime Karl malone just the series before.:lol

Meanwhile the heats perimeter defense was one of the most suffocating of all time and parker was the sole dribble creator with manu having a mid life crisis.


And I have duncan top 5 winners ever.. I just give credit where it's due To supporting cast. Hop off me nads man

[ImKobe]

Oh hey, another thread where T_L_P shits on his championship player to prop up Duncan

:kobe:

[Smoke117]

There's a difference between individual years and a period of years you ****ing moron.

Now get out of my thread.

Erm...okay. You're awfully aggressive for a cat that has never pierced a hymen.

[mehyaM24]

Oh hey, another thread where T_L_P shits on his championship player to prop up Duncan

:kobe:
that guy is a duncan-only fan. most out-of-country fans are player zealots.

[rmt]

Parker is garbage in every sense of the word.

He's been absolutely atrocious this year and what gets me mad is that they gave him that ridiculous contract ($15 million when he's 36). What was the rush? They could have waited until the end of this year - he's not going anywhere. He must have promised to rest the whole summer if they signed early - much good that did him - all he did was gain weight.

And must Pop pander to him while chewing out Green? That clip of Pop (in the Finals) telling Parker about his great leadership and him replying that he must trust his team mates - more like bring the ball up the court, pass it and get out of the way - stop with the incessant dribbling and trying to get yours.

That saying, Parker needs to get his act together - Spurs need everyone on board to try to repeat - all the other teams have improved - Spurs stayed the course minus the intensity.

[KirbyPls]

I don't hate mvp finishes.. the top 5 or top 10 are usually ok is just the order gets switched around wrong sometimes at the top based on the arbitrary 'you need a good team' rule. All I'm saying.. parker was top 5 at one point.. Duncan 14th.. Duncan dipped a bit right as parker was at peak age.. it's not crazy to say he was at least on his level.. this is a guy with a handful of top 10 mvp finishes. He's a really good player. But spurs fans love to shit on him for some reason.

Even shit on his gutsy 2013 performance where he's out there limping banging clutch Shots on a 6'9 super freak.. little french guy lol. That was some Isaiah Thomas lite inspiring stuff. Yet they swing frim Timmy nuts because he got a few put backs on a weak Frontline in the second quarter.

How little they forget Roy hibbert looked like fking shaq against the heat and David West like prime Karl malone just the series before.:lol

Meanwhile the heats perimeter defense was one of the most suffocating of all time and parker was the sole dribble creator with manu having a mid life crisis.


And I have duncan top 5 winners ever.. I just give credit where it's due To supporting cast. Hop off me nads man

Just trying to keep you fresh for the playoffs bruh. :biggums: :lol

[rmt]

we're not talking about manu here, who when healthy, has been the spurs' best player for several years now. parker's only case for being a better player than duncan was in 2013 and MAYBE in 2012. parker and manu, the spurs' backcourt, have been the cog to the spurs' success since 2007, so roughly half a decade.

You got your year mixed up - it was 2010-11 when Duncan had a poor year. Just like other Kobe stans - Parker AND Manu - that's SO unfair - comparing TWO players to one. You must not be watching this year when Parker's been atrocious.

[houston]

shut him down for year

[T_L_P]

Oh hey, another thread where T_L_P shits on his championship player to prop up Duncan

:kobe:

If that were the case I'd be saying Manu was a role player and Kawhi was made by Pop's system.

Not so.

Manu was a superstar and one of the most effective guards in NBA history. Kawhi is probably the best perimeter defender in the league right now.

Funny thing is, nothing I or any of the posters in this thread have said about Parker is false, and you've done nothing to disprove any of it. :oldlol:

[T_L_P]

You got your year mixed up - it was 2010-11 when Duncan had a poor year. Just like other Kobe stans - Parker AND Manu - that's SO unfair - comparing TWO players to one. You must not be watching this year when Parker's been atrocious.

It's the dumbest argument I've ever heard.

No shit a backcourt duo is gonna be more important/stronger than one frontcourt player (or any player).

:oldlol: Latching Parker onto Manu's back because he knows Parker's lone production is mediocre as fck. :facepalm

[Artillery]

If that were the case I'd be saying Manu was a role player and Kawhi was made by Pop's system.

Not so.

Manu was a superstar and one of the most effective guards in NBA history. Kawhi is probably the best perimeter defender in the league right now.

Funny thing is, nothing I or any of the posters in this thread have said about Parker is false, and you've done nothing to disprove any of it. :oldlol:

That's the funniest thing about these Kobe stans. They throw ALL of Bryant's teammates under the bus...even the elite ones like Shaq and Pau(the two dudes that carried him to his 5 titles). Then they have the audacity to call Spurs fans "Duncan player fans" Ridiculous. You won't find many Spurs fans talking shit about Manu or Kawhi because those two are actually GOOD players. IMO, Manu's the most underrated shooting guard of the 2000s. Dude shit all over the Pistons while Kobe had the worst series in Finals history against 'em. He's a beast and, IMO, more impactful than Bryant and his overrated ass. Definitely a better defender over his career too.

Parker sucks though - overrated chucker that chokes every year in the post-season. Funny as hell that Kobe stans are trying to prop up a dude that has a career 51 TS% in the playoffs. Almost every top tier PG in NBA history is more efficient than TP in the playoffs.

[Jacks3]

Duncan stans talking about ''carrying'' when the Sperms have continued to win chips even after he was nothing more than a good role-player. :oldlol:

[mehyaM24]

You got your year mixed up - it was 2010-11 when Duncan had a poor year. Just like other Kobe stans - Parker AND Manu - that's SO unfair - comparing TWO players to one. You must not be watching this year when Parker's been atrocious.
having a bad year =/= having more impact

parker and manu have been the key to the spurs' success since 2007, as impact data and basic film suggests.

also, when i say the spurs' backcourt, i'm obviously referring to manu/parker vs a combination of duncan/rasho and duncan/splitter (frontcourt).

what's interesting about manu, though, is that when healthy, guy had the most impact on the spurs team since 2007. his offense has been other worldly for san antonio.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

having a bad year =/= having more impact

parker and manu have been the key to the spurs' success since 2007, as impact data and basic film suggests.

also, when i say the spurs' backcourt, i'm obviously referring to manu/parker vs a combination of duncan/rasho and duncan/splitter (frontcourt).

what's interesting about manu, though, is that when healthy, guy had the most impact on the spurs team since 2007. his offense has been other worldly for san antonio.

Impact data? Cite your stats.

From the 2006-2007 season to the 2014-2015 season Tony Parker didn't finish top-3 on the team in BPM once. Manu made it 8 times, Duncan made it 7 times (including in 2010-2011). If there are impact stats that paint a different picture please introduce them, but from what I saw it's been Duncan and Ginobli having the highest impact.

[mehyaM24]

Impact data? Cite your stats.

From the 2006-2007 season to the 2014-2015 season Tony Parker didn't finish top-3 on the team in BPM once. Manu made it 8 times, Duncan made it 7 times (including in 2010-2011). If there are impact stats that paint a different picture please introduce them, but from what I saw it's been Duncan and Ginobli having the highest impact.
check yours. bpm is actually reliant on your teammates, not adjusting anything and especially not YOUR impact. like winshares & ortg/drtg (team stats), its very flawed and outdated.

rapm & rpm (includes box score variants) isolates player impact, taking into account quality of teammates and opponents. when measuring a players INDIVIDUAL impact, these AND ONLY these adjusted metrics should be used.

[ImKobe]

Impact data? Cite your stats.

From the 2006-2007 season to the 2014-2015 season Tony Parker didn't finish top-3 on the team in BPM once. Manu made it 8 times, Duncan made it 7 times (including in 2010-2011). If there are impact stats that paint a different picture please introduce them, but from what I saw it's been Duncan and Ginobli having the highest impact.

When Parker and Manu aren't balling, Spurs lose. Duncan can put up effective stats but it doesn't lead to wins, see 2013 Finals. Spurs lost to a damn 8th seed in the first round when Manu was out.

Duncan finally won another ring when the rest of the team was just on fire and one three rained after another, you think Duncan's the guy that's running the offense and is setting up all those 3pt shots? :kobe:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

you think Duncan's the guy that's running the offense and is setting up all those 3pt shots? :kobe:

Ball movement =/= overdribbling. Who had a higher +/- in the finals, Parker or Mills? I mean, I understand you're mad your boy isn't a top 5 player and ours is, but that's no reason to troll our threads.

:confusedshrug:

[ImKobe]

Ball movement =/= overdribbling. Who had a higher +/- in the finals, Parker or Mills? I mean, I understand you're mad your boy isn't a top 5 player and ours is, but that's no reason to troll our threads.

:confusedshrug:

On what account is Duncan considered top 5? Because he played on a stacked team that carried him to a ring? What has changed since 07? :oldlol:

And +/-? Really? I guess Mills > Parker because Spurs' bench was more dominant against the Heat's bench than their starters? :facepalm

Mills played 368 less minutes than Parker in the Playoffs.

Also, Kawhi, Splitter, Green and Manu had a much higher BPM than Duncan.

[T_L_P]

When Parker and Manu aren't balling, Spurs lose. Duncan can put up effective stats but it doesn't lead to wins, see 2013 Finals. Spurs lost to a damn 8th seed in the first round when Manu was out.

Duncan finally won another ring when the rest of the team was just on fire and one three rained after another, you think Duncan's the guy that's running the offense and is setting up all those 3pt shots? :kobe:

Portland series for Manu: 9/4/3 on 28% shooting, .390 TS%, dead last in ORtg (80), 9th in team GS (Duncan's probably never finished outside the top 3-4).

We came back from a deficit with Parker on the bench in the biggest game of the season. He wasn't even there to 'ball' and we won.

Where do you come up with this shit, seriously?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

check yours. bpm is actually reliant on your teammates, not adjusting anything and especially not YOUR impact. like winshares & ortg/drtg (team stats), its very flawed and outdated.

rapm & rpm (includes box score variants) isolates player impact, taking into account quality of teammates and opponents. when measuring a players INDIVIDUAL impact, these AND ONLY these adjusted metrics should be used.

RAPM from 2006-2007 to 2012-2013 has Duncan listed as a top-5 player in the league in 6 of 7 years. Used this (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/), opened the relevant seasons..

Unless there's something I'm missing?

[Spurs5Rings2014]

On what account is Duncan considered top 5? Because he played on a stacked team that carried him to a ring? What has changed since 07? :oldlol:

And +/-? Really? I guess Mills > Parker because Spurs' bench was more dominant against the Heat's bench than their starters? :facepalm

Mills played 368 less minutes than Parker in the Playoffs.

Also, Kawhi, Splitter, Green and Manu had a much higher BPM than Duncan.

Oh, I don't know... rings, FMVP's, MVP's? The Spurs were stacked and carried him to a ring in 2003? It's not what has changed, it's what hasn't changed that's of note. Duncan has remained consistently one of the best defensive anchors and rim protectors in the league.

Mills was better than Parker period. Don't need to even look at +/-, eye test is enough. As TLP said, we came back from a deficit with Parker on the bench in the biggest game of the season.

That's great that those players had a higher BPM than Duncan. It's also great how you didn't list Parker among those names. I wonder why?

:hammerhead:

[T_L_P]

Again, I hate the way posters so easily group Manu and Parker together as if they are one player.

Look at any impact stat you want, the vast majority of them will tell you Parker was a net negative in 03, 05 and 14.

People find a way to excuse 03 because he was a 19-year-old sophomore...which I understand, but he had a very good rookie season and even a good rookie Playoffs, going toe-to-toe with the Glove and looking like a monster. In 03 he couldn't pass, shoot or defend. 14/3/4 on 40/27/70 as a second option is :facepalm

05 is a fact for anyone who watched the Spurs. He was a trainwreck that postseason. He was barely a top 10 player on either team in the Pistons series, that's how pathetic his play was.

The Spurs got better with Parker on the bench last season. With Patty the offense was at its apex: no ball-stopping, shooting and defense just about everywhere. Parker got so mad at Kawhi that he literally gunned for a Finals MVP...failing miserably and going 0-10 to start game 5.

Even in 07, his best title run, he was still clearly the 3rd best Spur. And this is a guy Kobe stans would probably have you believe is a better basketball player than Pau. :oldlol:

[mehyaM24]

RAPM from 2006-2007 to 2012-2013 has Duncan listed as a top-5 player in the league in 6 of 7 years. Used this (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/), opened the relevant seasons..

Unless there's something I'm missing?
most of those numbers are of xRAPM varients (either missing data/too much box score info). nothing wrong with that, but they're not 100% rapm or rpm.

this is what you want to look at:
https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/2007-rapm
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2014/sort/RPM

you will find rapm for all years, up to 2013 (not updated). you can find the full 2013 and 2014 seasons here: http://www.gotbuckets.com/statistics/rapm/2013/

[24-Inch_Chrome]

most of those numbers are of xRAPM varients (either missing data/too much box score info). nothing wrong with that, but they're not 100% rapm or rpm.

this is what you want to look at:
https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/2007-rapm
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2014/sort/RPM

you will find rapm for all years, up to 2013 (not updated). you can find the full 2013 and 2014 seasons here: http://www.gotbuckets.com/statistics/rapm/2013/

Thanks.

Just wondering, how reliable is WAR in basketball? I'm primarily a baseball fan so I'm quite used to seeing it in that sport's statistical discussions but it doesn't seem to have much traction here as far as mentions.

[Artillery]

Tony's lucky he spent his entire career in San Antonio. The dude has been terrible in the playoffs nearly every year of his career and they still love the guy in SA. Compare that to the way Kobe fans shit on Pau - a legit playoff performer that carried their idol to two rings. If Parker had played for the Lakers, the Kobe fanboys would have CRUCIFIED him. Look at the way they treat Lin. TP's pretty much the same player.

If anything, I think Spurs fans are TOO kind to TP. He continually disappoints them but they'll always support the guy. Kinda like a father looking out for his retarded son.

[ArbitraryWater]

I wish some of y'all Spurs fans would enjoy, and respect Parker more.. it's not close to the kind of shitting on Pau gets from these Kobe blowhards, but I don't like it :no:

[T_L_P]

I wish some of y'all Spurs fans would enjoy, and respect Parker more.. it's not close to the kind of shitting on Pau gets from these Kobe blowhards, but I don't like it :no:

But bro, nothing we are saying is wrong.

I don't care if you're a shitty player as long as you play the right way (ala Matt Bonner). Quite often Parker doesn't do that...whether it's holding the ball, not trying on defense, or generally being an unsupportive teammate.

The guy fcked Brent Barry's girl. He constantly pusses on the bench when other players are doing good things/hitting shots. Pop tried trading him as recently as five years ago. And this is Tony's 'father figure'.

What should I be respecting exactly? He takes less money than his market value more often that not (though he was/is overpaid for his production). That is definitely commendable, and I appreciate that. But what else? Postseason failures aside, he's selfish and a diva. When he was asked to be the guy on offense (09-11), and the co-leader of the team, he spent his time making rap videos and opening clubs. Now he's out of shape while players like Tim and Manu constantly put in the work. :confusedshrug:

[mehyaM24]

But bro, nothing we are saying is wrong.

I don't care if you're a shitty player as long as you play the right way (ala Matt Bonner). Quite often Parker doesn't do that...whether it's holding the ball, not trying on defense, or generally being an unsupportive teammate.

The guy fcked Brent Barry's girl. He constantly pusses on the bench when other players are doing good things/hitting shots. Pop tried trading him as recently as five years ago. And this is Tony's 'father figure'.

What should I be respecting exactly? He takes less money than his market value more often that not (though he was/is overpaid for his production). That is definitely commendable, and I appreciate that. But what else? Postseason failures aside, he's selfish and a diva. When he was asked to be the guy on offense (09-11), and the co-leader of the team, he spent his time making rap videos and opening clubs. Now he's out of shape while players like Tim and Manu constantly put in the work. :confusedshrug:
i thought that was a rumor? :oldlol:

[T_L_P]

i thought that was a rumor? :oldlol:

My memory is a little off on this, but I think Eva confirmed it in the divorce proceedings, saying she found hundreds of texts between the two.

Around that time Brent divorced his wife.

It hasn't been officially confirmed, but it's one of the stronger rumors out there.

Also notice how Brent never mentions Parker whenever he's on NBATV or doing some analysis? :lol

[greatest-ever]

He's probably exhausted from carrying the Spurs to the playoffs the last 8+ years.
I hope this is a joke. He was rarely even the best player on the Spurs the past 8 years let alone carry them.

I give Parker a lot of credit in 2013 i think it was his peak season and he had a really good playoffs up until his injury in the finals. So i seen him as the Spurs best player in 2012, 2013 and maybe 2009. Other than that he was never their best player, and he certainly did not carry them.

[Artillery]

I wish some of y'all Spurs fans would enjoy, and respect Parker more.. it's not close to the kind of shitting on Pau gets from these Kobe blowhards, but I don't like it :no:

Spurs fans love TP though. He's one of the best regular season players in Spur history(excluding this year of course). He just doesn't have that extra drive to step up in playoff games like Duncan, Manu, and Leonard have. That's where the frustration comes from. It's infuriating, as a fan, to see a career 51 TS% shooter take so many shots in the post-season.

[Artillery]

Duncan stans talking about ''carrying'' when the Sperms have continued to win chips even after he was nothing more than a good role-player.

:oldlol: And yet Kirby was the one that won the majority of his titles as a sidekick

[ninephive]

Spurs fans love TP though. He's one of the best regular season players in Spur history(excluding this year of course). He just doesn't have that extra drive to step up in playoff games like Duncan, Manu, and Leonard have. That's where the frustration comes from. It's infuriating, as a fan, to see a career 51 TS% shooter take so many shots in the post-season.
First of all, Parker has a career 55 TS% (same as Duncan). Second, I just want to make sure we all understand that Parker's scoring production has increased in the postseason in 12 of his 13 playoff runs:

2001-02 - Regular Sesason: 9.2/4.3 | Playoffs 15.5/4.0 (+6.3)
2002-03 - Regular Sesason: 15.5/5.3 | Playoffs 14.7/3.5 (-0.8)
2003-04 - Regular Sesason: 14.7/5.5 | Playoffs 18.4/7.0 (+3.7)
2004-05 - Regular Sesason: 16.6/6.1 | Playoffs 17.2/4.3 (+0.6)
2005-06 - Regular Sesason: 18.9/5.8 | Playoffs 21.1/3.8 (+2.2)
2006-07 - Regular Sesason: 18.6/5.5 | Playoffs 20.8/5.8 (+2.2)
2007-08 - Regular Sesason: 18.8/6.0 | Playoffs 22.4/6.1 (+3.6)
2008-09 - Regular Sesason: 22.0/6.9 | Playoffs 28.6/6.8 (+6.6)
2009-10 - Regular Sesason: 16.0/5.7 | Playoffs 17.3/5.4 (+1.3)
2010-11 - Regular Sesason: 17.5/6.6 | Playoffs 19.7/5.2 (+2.2)
2011-12 - Regular Sesason: 18.3/7.7 | Playoffs 20.1/6.8 (+1.8)
2012-13 - Regular Sesason: 20.3/7.6 | Playoffs 20.6/7.0 (+0.3)
2013-14 - Regular Sesason: 16.7/5.7 | Playoffs 17.4/4.8 (+0.7)

...whereas a guy like Duncan's scoring decreased in the postseason in '98, '04, & '11 (3 out of his 16 playoff runs). I think there are people on this board that think that Parker actually scores less in the playoffs than in the regular season. Just like there are people who think he actually hasn't led our team in scoring the past 3 regular seasons and playoffs, which of course resulted in 3 trips to the WCF, 2 trips to the Finals, and 1 NBA Championship (along with having a top 3 regular season record those years, 2 of them being #1).

[T_L_P]

First of all, Parker has a career 55 TS% (same as Duncan). Second, I just want to make sure we all understand that Parker's scoring production has increased in the postseason in 12 of his 13 playoff runs:

2001-02 - Regular Sesason: 9.2/4.3 | Playoffs 15.5/4.0 (+6.3)
2002-03 - Regular Sesason: 15.5/5.3 | Playoffs 14.7/3.5 (-0.8)
2003-04 - Regular Sesason: 14.7/5.5 | Playoffs 18.4/7.0 (+3.7)
2004-05 - Regular Sesason: 16.6/6.1 | Playoffs 17.2/4.3 (+0.6)
2005-06 - Regular Sesason: 18.9/5.8 | Playoffs 21.1/3.8 (+2.2)
2006-07 - Regular Sesason: 18.6/5.5 | Playoffs 20.8/5.8 (+2.2)
2007-08 - Regular Sesason: 18.8/6.0 | Playoffs 22.4/6.1 (+3.6)
2008-09 - Regular Sesason: 22.0/6.9 | Playoffs 28.6/6.8 (+6.6)
2009-10 - Regular Sesason: 16.0/5.7 | Playoffs 17.3/5.4 (+1.3)
2010-11 - Regular Sesason: 17.5/6.6 | Playoffs 19.7/5.2 (+2.2)
2011-12 - Regular Sesason: 18.3/7.7 | Playoffs 20.1/6.8 (+1.8)
2012-13 - Regular Sesason: 20.3/7.6 | Playoffs 20.6/7.0 (+0.3)
2013-14 - Regular Sesason: 16.7/5.7 | Playoffs 17.4/4.8 (+0.7)

...whereas a guy like Duncan's scoring decreased in the postseason in '98, '04, & '11 (3 out of his 16 playoff runs). I think there are people on this board that think that Parker actually scores less in the playoffs than in the regular season. Just like there are people who think he actually hasn't led our team in scoring the past 3 regular seasons and playoffs, which of course resulted in 3 trips to the WCF, 2 trips to the Finals, and 1 NBA Championship (along with having a top 3 regular season record those years, 2 of them being #1).

Going by everything you use (raw stats + shooting numbers), Parker is having a perfectly strong season this year too. :oldlol:

[Artillery]

First of all, Parker has a career 55 TS%

I was talking about playoffs. I already mentioned that Parker was a good regular season player. Playoffs, he's a joke. A choke artist. Duncan, Manu, and Leonard all stay consistent from season to playoffs(and even elevate their performances). TP's entire game falls off a cliff:

TS%:
.550 - RS
.518 - PS

PER:
19.0 - RS
17.2 - PS

BPM:
1.2 - RS
0.2 - PS

Assist Percentage:
32.8% - RS
27.9% - PS

You want to see something ugly? Compare TP's reg season to post-seaon dropoffs to an actual GOOD point guard like Paul. It's pretty gross and shows you how overrated Parker really is. Here's Paul's numbers in comparison:

TS%
.576 - RS
.575 - PS

PER:
25.5 - RS
25.0 - PS

BPM:
7.4 - RS
7.9 - PS

Assist Percentage:
46.5% - RS
46.0% - PS

Parker was extremely fortunate to play with amazing teammates like TD, Manu, and Leonard. CP never got that luxury.

[SexSymbol]

I've been saying it for a while...outside of 2012, 2013 and the 2007 Playoffs, Parker hasn't been a very good player at all.

He has somewhat similar numbers last postseason too. The guy has literally been a net negative on three of his four title teams (07 being the exception).
You're so freaking ungrateful and transparent with your only Duncan is good agenda.
Be a man and learn to root for a team, not a single player.

[T_L_P]

You're so freaking ungrateful and transparent with your only Duncan is good agenda.
Be a man and learn to root for a team, not a single player.

Go look at my other posts in this thread you goon.

I literally just said Manu was a superstar and the best Spur in 05, and from 09-12. He's one of the most effective guards ever. Kawhi is the best wing defender in the game.

Now, explain how I'm a Duncan-only fan, since my posts in this thread say anything but that.

Then explain to me how Parker was great last postseason, in the 03 postseason or the 05 postseason, without using hyperbole like 'running the show', '#1 PG in the NBA!!!'

[ninephive]

Going by everything you use (raw stats + shooting numbers), Parker is having a perfectly strong season this year too. :oldlol:
No he's not...he's averaging:

13.9 PPG (2nd worst season of his career...Duncan is having the 2nd worst of his)
4.8 APG (2nd worst season of his career...Duncan is having the 3rd worst rebounding output of his career)
46% FG% (3rd worst season of his career)
0.6 SPG (3rd worst season of his career...Duncan is having the 4th worst blocks output of his career)

The only things he's doing well:
47% 3P% (Best season of his career)
83% FT% (3nd best season of his career)
2.3 TO (3rd best season of his career)

No one has said he's having a good year.

[ninephive]

I was talking about playoffs. I already mentioned that Parker was a good regular season player. Playoffs, he's a joke. A choke artist. Duncan, Manu, and Leonard all stay consistent from season to playoffs(and even elevate their performances). TP's entire game falls off a cliff:

TS%:
.550 - RS
.518 - PS

PER:
19.0 - RS
17.2 - PS

BPM:
1.2 - RS
0.2 - PS

Assist Percentage:
32.8% - RS
27.9% - PS

You want to see something ugly? Compare TP's reg season to post-seaon dropoffs to an actual GOOD point guard like Paul. It's pretty gross and shows you how overrated Parker really is. Here's Paul's numbers in comparison:

TS%
.576 - RS
.575 - PS

PER:
25.5 - RS
25.0 - PS

BPM:
7.4 - RS
7.9 - PS

Assist Percentage:
46.5% - RS
46.0% - PS

Parker was extremely fortunate to play with amazing teammates like TD, Manu, and Leonard. CP never got that luxury.
Hey, advanced stats are great. Let's check some of them out:

TS% Leaders 2014-15:

(1) Tyson Chandler
(2) Kyle Korver
(3) DeAndre Jordan

(6) Jonas Valanciunas
(7) Amir Johnson

(11) Ed Davis
(12) Tyler Zeller
(13) Amare Stoudemire
(14) Demarre Caroll
(15) Courtney Lee
(16) Jared Dudley

I mean, I know advanced stats can be helpful, but usually RAW stats are a little more telling (or at least I'd usually take a RAW stats guy over an advanced stats guy). They have their place and I get it, but if Parker is leading the Spurs in scoring and facilitating in the regular season and the playoffs the past 3 seasons and it leads to the deepest 3-year playoff run the Spurs have ever seen, then I'm going to be good with that. I get that his advanced stats dropped in the postseason, but his RAW stats went up like they have his whole career. To be honest, I'm fine with it. When you've got to take away a guy's FMVP, his All-Star selections, his All-NBA selections, his MVP races, and his RAW stats to try and discredit him, go right ahead. The rest of the world sees right through your Duncan agenda (and T_L_Ps especially)...he's been called out on it so many times it's ridiculous. He's like, "no...but I've supported Manu..." Well yah, a turnover machine 6th man whose basically never led the Spurs in any category is hardly the same threat that a FMVP perpetual All-Star, All-NBA player who the coach calls the driving force behind the current team is. Yah, you've said some good things about Kawhi...great. He's a career 11.6 PPG guy. Not exactly threatening to take anything away from Duncan's legacy.

[Artillery]

Hey, advanced stats are great. Let's check some of them out:

TS% Leaders 2014-15:

(1) Tyson Chandler
(2) Kyle Korver
(3) DeAndre Jordan

(6) Jonas Valanciunas
(7) Amir Johnson

(11) Ed Davis
(12) Tyler Zeller
(13) Amare Stoudemire
(14) Demarre Caroll
(15) Courtney Lee
(16) Jared Dudley

Are you really trying to disprove the importance of TS% by posting the numbers of role players? God, you're dumb.


I mean, I know advanced stats can be helpful, but usually RAW stats are a little more telling (or at least I'd usually take a RAW stats guy over an advanced stats guy). I get that his advanced stats dropped in the postseason, but his RAW stats went up like they have his whole career.

What raw stats went up besides scoring? None. Basically, Parker increases his shot attempts in the playoffs while decreasing his efficiency. How is becoming more of chucker helping the team? He's a mid-volume version of Iverson...which is not a good thing.


They have their place and I get it, but if Parker is leading the Spurs in scoring and facilitating in the regular season and the playoffs the past 3 seasons and it leads to the deepest 3-year playoff run the Spurs have ever seen, then I'm going to be good with that.

What a terrible, terrible post. You're accusing other posters of being player fans while you're here slurping Tony Parker and attributing ALL of the Spurs recent success solely to him The Spurs ran the same motion offense with Parker back in 2011. How'd that work out for 'em? They got bounced in the first round. After that series, Parker gave up on the team and admitted to the media that the Spurs would never win another title. Loser talk like usual from the French quitter.

The Spurs resurgence from 2012-2014 had less to do with Parker and more to do with other factors like:

1. Duncan's comeback - the knee problems continued to bother Duncan in 2011 so he lost weight in order to compensate. His mobility and overall game improved as a result.

2. Kawhi being drafted...Spurs were trotting out garbage like Richard Jefferson at the SF position before him. With Kawhi, they finally had a strong defender to fill the void left by Bowen and a strong rebounder to pair next to TD. Also the ideal player to put next to Duncan in small ball lineups.

3. Improved bench...players like Splitter and Danny Green have been vital(and more important than Parker) in the recent title run. Tiago's a huge upgrade over the undersized Blair, a guy that never understood the concept of playing defense. Danny Green's one of the best 3&D guys in the league. Big , big improvement over one-dimensional shooters like Mason and Neal.

4. Manu being healthy. His 2014 playoff run is incredibly underrated...he ran the Spurs offense better than Parker did. In last year's playoffs the Spurs were statistically better when TP was sitting on the bench. That's why they were able to blow out the Blazers without Parker suiting up, able to beat the Thunder in OKC with Parker sitting out that night.

Game 5 against the Heat is a good example of TP's negative impact. Tony went 0-9 to start the game in a desperate attempt to win Finals MVP...Heat accumulated a 16 point lead as a result of Tony's chucking. TP refused to play team basketball because he was jealous of Kawhi being the frontrunner for Finals MVP. The bench unit entered the game and, led by Manu, they ended up blowing out the Heat. TP padded his stats in the 4th quarter when the game was well out of reach for Miami. Manu was the TRUE playmaker for the 2014 Spurs.


To be honest, I'm fine with it. When you've got to take away a guy's FMVP, his All-Star selections, his All-NBA selections, his MVP races, and his RAW stats to try and discredit him, go right ahead.

He's a system player on a successful team. Of course, he's going to accumulate a couple meaningless awards. Doesn't mean he was ever the most important player on the team. Duncan and Manu were the big two throughout the 2000s when they won three titles. Now it's Kawhi's team. No coincidence that Spurs had numerous early playoff exits as soon as Parker became the focal point of the team(2009, 2010, 2011). We call those the "dark years" aka The Tony Parker era.


The rest of the world sees right through your Duncan agenda (and T_L_Ps especially)...he's been called out on it so many times it's ridiculous. He's like, "no...but I've supported Manu..." Well yah, a turnover machine 6th man whose basically never led the Spurs in any category is hardly the same threat that a FMVP perpetual All-Star, All-NBA player who the coach calls the driving force behind the current team is. Yah, you've said some good things about Kawhi...great. He's a career 11.6 PPG guy. Not exactly threatening to take anything away from Duncan's legacy.

This is the most hilarious part. You call out other posters for being player fans while throwing Manu and Kawhi under the bus. The only player fan here is YOU. 99% of your posts are about Tony Parker. It's shameless and embarrassing really. The agenda here is obvious. We've seen you argue dumb shit like Parker outplaying Westbrook in last year's playoffs or saying Parker's the best point guard in the league because his team won the title. No one takes you seriously anymore.

[Jacks3]

:oldlol: And yet Kirby was the one that won the majority of his titles as a sidekick
Yeah, only if you're dumb enough to think a dude throwing up 29+/7+/6+/2 in the post-season was a side-kick. If that's being a sidekick, what the hell was Duncan in 2014? :oldlol:

[JohnFreeman]

I still don't understand the money the Spurs threw at him

[Artillery]

Yeah, only if you're dumb enough to think a dude throwing up 29+/7+/6+/2 in the post-season was a side-kick. If that's being a sidekick, what the hell was Duncan in 2014? :oldlol:

Boiled down:

5/3/2>>>>>>>5/2/1

Let us proceed.

[ninephive]

What a terrible, terrible post. You're accusing other posters of being player fans while you're here slurping Tony Parker and attributing ALL of the Spurs recent success solely to him The Spurs ran the same motion offense with Parker back in 2011. How'd that work out for 'em? They got bounced in the first round. After that series, Parker gave up on the team and admitted to the media that the Spurs would never win another title. Loser talk like usual from the French quitter.
Now you're taking my posts out of context...I'm saying the Spurs are good enough with him leading the team to be a WCF/Finals/Championship team. Of course I don't attribute all the Spurs success to Parker. Him and Duncan have been 1A & 1B the past several years.

And yah I didn't like what Parker said, but thankfully it proved to be wrong & possibly motivational. He made up for it after '13 with his confidence in the '14 run though: http://youtu.be/o8VQXm42y0w?t=1m7s

[rmt]

To his credit, when Parker said the Spurs would never win another championship, they did not have the supporting cast to contend back then. Things have changed with the emergence and addition of Leonard, Green, Diaw, Splitter and Mills. TD (who had a retro 2012-13) and TP (except this year) are very consistent so the reason they were contenders the past 2 years has more to do with the supporting cast than the big 3. The MOST important reason why they were elite is the perimeter defense of Leonard and Green - they are elite defenders unlike Parker and Manu.

[ninephive]

To his credit, when Parker said the Spurs would never win another championship, they did not have the supporting cast to contend back then. Things have changed with the emergence and addition of Leonard, Green, Diaw, Splitter and Mills. TD (who had a retro 2012-13) and TP (except this year) are very consistent so the reason they were contenders the past 2 years has more to do with the supporting cast than the big 3. The MOST important reason why they were elite is the perimeter defense of Leonard and Green - they are elite defenders unlike Parker and Manu.
Yah, the defense of Kawhi and Green was ridiculous. I remember in the '13 Finals some of the almost-impossible timely strips Green had on Lebron that almost won us the title.

[ILLsmak]

He's probably exhausted from carrying the Spurs to the playoffs the last 8+ years.

Super ugly. Haha.

Dudes gonna come in here and say tp has only been good for a few years in his career. wow.

-Smak