Top 10 GOAT: It's Basketball, not basket strategy

[HOoopCityJones]

Shaq :applause:

[J Shuttlesworth]

Agreed. They need to find a way to prevent the hack a shaq type shit. Honestly, it slows the momentum for both teams, and probably makes a lot of fans want to change the channel

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

It's dreadful, no doubt.

But those are the repercussions of not being able to shoot a 15 foot, unguarded shot when you're given all the time in the world.

Players flaws should be exploited if they're that glaring. The solution? Work on said glaring flaws.

[LONGTIME]

Shaq "not everybody can be a great shooter...65, 70% free throw shooters..." :oldlol:

[ILLsmak]

It's dreadful, no doubt.

But those are the repercussions of not being able to shoot a 15 foot, unguarded shot when you're given all the time in the world.

Players flaws should be exploited if they're that glaring. The solution? Work on said glaring flaws.

Who says you should be able to shoot? There's no way to make a big man dribble. There's no way to force a little guy to get in the paint.

That's not a good way of thinking. Basically, you see that people are exploiting a flaw and believe that all flaws should be exploited. Maybe they should, but they can't be... so why free throw shooting?

I think some of those guys are so bad that shooting 50% from the line, especially after getting tired and banging with everyone, is the best they can do. I don't believe everyone has it in them to 'get better.'

Intentional fouling in general is wack. If you do an obvious intentional foul they should either get 2 and the ball or get to choose the shooter. That whole gimmick was to extend games and add more commercials. It's even worse than hack-a-shaq to watch it at the end of every game.

-Smak

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

Who says you should be able to shoot? There's no way to make a big man dribble. There's no way to force a little guy to get in the paint.

That's not a good way of thinking. Basically, you see that people are exploiting a flaw and believe that all flaws should be exploited. Maybe they should, but they can't be... so why free throw shooting?

I think some of those guys are so bad that shooting 50% from the line, especially after getting tired and banging with everyone, is the best they can do. I don't believe everyone has it in them to 'get better.'

Intentional fouling in general is wack. If you do an obvious intentional foul they should either get 2 and the ball or get to choose the shooter. That whole gimmick was to extend games and add more commercials. It's even worse than hack-a-shaq to watch it at the end of every game.

-Smak

Differences of opinion then I guess.

I just believe that if you're historically bad at something, it should get exposed. Or at least, it shouldn't be such a hotly contested issue, that a guy who barely makes 4/10 free throws is gonna get put to the line.

[T_L_P]

Simple solution: improve at the line or take the poor FT shooter out of the game.

[LONGTIME]

Simple solution: improve at the line or take the poor FT shooter out of the game.

Common sense. :applause:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Common sense. :applause:

:cheers:

[Genaro]

As a Laker fan it was horrible to see Dwight shooting the Lakers out of games with his FTs but I don't see how you can make a rule to benefit guys who suck at the line. If someone is that bad that he can't make a open shot 70% of his attempts he should work on it or be taken off.

[L.Kizzle]

Hey Shaq, when you're team is down 4 points with 31 seconds left and the opposing team has the ball, do you foul or play 24 seconds of good defense?

[dunksby]

Shaq would have scored 2400 more points if he was a 70% career FT shooter, equivalent of a 30 PPG season, and that's only counting RS.

[ZenMaster]

As a Laker fan it was horrible to see Dwight shooting the Lakers out of games with his FTs but I don't see how you can make a rule to benefit guys who suck at the line. If someone is that bad that he can't make a open shot 70% of his attempts he should work on it or be taken off.

That's one point of view. Another is that comitting a foul should be something that the player/team doing it is punished for, not the opposition. Comitting a foul is by definition doing something against the rules of basketball and thereby it was not originally meant to work in your favor.

[Sakkreth]

Agreed. They need to find a way to prevent the hack a shaq type shit. Honestly, it slows the momentum for both teams, and probably makes a lot of fans want to change the channel

Disagreed, it's basketball so learn to shoot god damn basketball.

[dunksby]

That's one point of view. Another is that comitting a foul should be something that the player/team doing it is punished for, not the opposition. Comitting a foul is by definition doing something against the rules of basketball and thereby it was not originally meant to work in your favor.
They are punished as they get in foul trouble, risk fouling out, and let's not forget putting the opposition in the bonus. Now it's up to the opposition to actually punish the fouling team. FT shooting is part of basketball, it's not anybody's fault but the lazy ass player who never worked on it.

[Jasi]

Shaq would have scored 2400 more points if he was a 70% career FT shooter, equivalent of a 30 PPG season, and that's only counting RS.

Does this calculation take into account the fact that if he was a 70% FT shooter, teams wouldn't have done the hack-a-Shaq so he would have had much less chances?

[ZenMaster]

They are punished as they get in foul trouble, risk fouling out, and let's not forget putting the opposition in the bonus. Now it's up to the opposition to actually punish the fouling team. FT shooting is part of basketball, it's not anybody's fault but the lazy ass player who never worked on it.

Obviously they are not punished as they feel it's not a negative situation for them. If you can put a crap player on the floor and foul someone like Howard or Jordan as soon as they pass the mid-line, then you cannot put another player in position to make a play.

Basketball was never about fouling someone on purpose, the whole idea of a foul is that you are breaking the rules. I know that's why they have the rule in FIBA regulations that a foul on purpose away from the ball is 2 shots and the ball on the side., and it makes complete sense.

[RightTwoCensor]

If basketball didn't require strategy then Shaq would have more than one ring without Phil Jackson (let alone a sidekick ring).

[ILLsmak]

Obviously they are not punished as they feel it's not a negative situation for them. If you can put a crap player on the floor and foul someone like Howard or Jordan as soon as they pass the mid-line, then you cannot put another player in position to make a play.

Basketball was never about fouling someone on purpose, the whole idea of a foul is that you are breaking the rules. I know that's why they have the rule in FIBA regulations that a foul on purpose away from the ball is 2 shots and the ball on the side., and it makes complete sense.

Yea I'm also against drawing fouls for that matter. Fouls are meant to come in the flow of the game, and @ "Hey Shaq..." like I said, intentional fouling is wack and they could do well to get rid of all of it. Even tho it adds omg endgame excitement.

If it was a real foul I could get behind it... like if someone had to run up and smash their body into Shaq or slap him. But they just talk to the ref and are like mk I'm gona foul now. And tap him on the chest twice.

It's basically like tagging a bad FT shooter and it is not good bball. Nowhere is it written U SHOULD BE PUNISHED IF U HAVE NO SHOT. Like I said, some of these dudes can't even ****ing dribble. It's an act of God that some of them can go to the line and hit 50%. It's amazing that nobody in NBA history hasn't been a worse FT shooter. Like... someone who just couldn't make a FT, ever.

I think this argument is divided into people who sympathize with big men and people who kind of want to punish people for being big. Cuz most of the dudes who can't make FTs are bigs with no touch. Which, as I said... is not some flaw in their work ethic. IF dudes could get touch, think of how good everyone would be. People would just be pulling up and wetting jumpers all over the place. Shaq for 3, wet... oh he's been practicing.

-Smak

[dunksby]

Does this calculation take into account the fact that if he was a 70% FT shooter, teams wouldn't have done the hack-a-Shaq so he would have had much less chances?
If they didn't he would just score a basket, that's why KAJ is the GOAT basketball player :applause:

[dunksby]

Obviously they are not punished as they feel it's not a negative situation for them. If you can put a crap player on the floor and foul someone like Howard or Jordan as soon as they pass the mid-line, then you cannot put another player in position to make a play.

Basketball was never about fouling someone on purpose, the whole idea of a foul is that you are breaking the rules. I know that's why they have the rule in FIBA regulations that a foul on purpose away from the ball is 2 shots and the ball on the side., and it makes complete sense.
It's been done since Wilt days.

[Jasi]

If they didn't he would just score a basket, that's why KAJ is the GOAT basketball player :applause:

Hack-a-Shaq included fouling him when he didn't have the ball though.

[dunksby]

Hack-a-Shaq included fouling him when he didn't have the ball though.
If opponents were afraid of Shaq hitting his FTs as you suggest, they'd have to defend him properly, what do you think would happen in that scenario?

[ZenMaster]

It's been done since Wilt days.

I don't really care, they have the rule in place in Euro basketball so this doesn't happen, and it's because it makes sense towards the general idea of basketball.
Not to mention that it is not good entertainment/TV.

[Jasi]

If opponents were afraid of Shaq hitting his FTs as you suggest, they'd have to defend him properly, what do you think would happen in that scenario?

He would score at his normal rate, which I don't know what it is in terms of points per team possession, but I guess is not higher than 1.4?

[dunksby]

He would score at his normal rate, which I don't know what it is in terms of points per team possession, but I guess is not higher than 1.4?
His normal rate was ****ing insane, teams would still have to foul him in order to prevent him from getting easy buckets but that would mean having to actually risk their 5 fouling out and possibly a lot of and 1s.

[JellyBean]

It's dreadful, no doubt.

But those are the repercussions of not being able to shoot a 15 foot, unguarded shot when you're given all the time in the world.

Players flaws should be exploited if they're that glaring. The solution? Work on said glaring flaws.

I agree. I hate the "Hack Shaq" technique. But if you can't make a free throw, teams are going to use that to their advantage in some kind of way.

[dunksby]

I don't really care, they have the rule in place in Euro basketball so this doesn't happen, and it's because it makes sense towards the general idea of basketball.
Not to mention that it is not good entertainment/TV.
The general idea of basketball is to be able to hit a reasonable amount of your FTs as well, it's the same case for all positions, FT shooting is not a specialty like 3pt shooting.

[Akhenaten]

Yea I'm also against drawing fouls for that matter. Fouls are meant to come in the flow of the game, and @ "Hey Shaq..." like I said, intentional fouling is wack and they could do well to get rid of all of it. Even tho it adds omg endgame excitement.



Nah it's simple, just require that the foul has to be on ball, they already have that requirement when it's inside two minutes anyway so just apply that through the entire game.

You shouldnt be allowed to intentionally foul people off the ball, if you do; the team of the fouled player should be allowed to choose the shooter or the player who gets foul should get two shots and his team should retain possession.

This isnt to sympathize with big men cause GABOS (game aint based on sympathy), but rather to make the game watchable, its a corny "strategy" anyway.

[ZenMaster]

The general idea of basketball is to be able to hit a reasonable amount of your FTs as well, it's the same case for all positions, FT shooting is not a specialty like 3pt shooting.

While that might be true, the idea was never to speculate and strategize in percentages against this handfull of players, who wether you like it or not, do in fact exists in the NBA every year.
Remember now that these players are being fouled on purpose before anyone else can even get a shot off. I'd say their punishment for being bad FT shooters should come naturally when they are fouled on a normal shot or finish around the basket and doesn't make it.

It's an easy fix to remove this lame segment of NBA basketball... Two shots and ball on the side.

[dunksby]

While that might be true, the idea was never to speculate and strategize in percentages against this handfull of players, who wether you like it or not, do in fact exists in the NBA every year.
Remember now that these players are being fouled on purpose before anyone else can even get a shot off. I'd say their punishment for being bad FT shooters should come naturally when they are fouled on a normal shot or finish around the basket and doesn't make it.

It's an easy fix to remove this lame segment of NBA basketball... Two shots and ball on the side.
The off-ball hack-a-Shaq is annoying I give you that, but it's similar to the 82 game season, changing it would face a strong resistance IMO. If they didn't change it for all-timers like Wilt and Shaq, I don't think they would for a guy like Jordan.

[ZenMaster]

The off-ball hack-a-Shaq is annoying I give you that, but it's similar to the 82 game season, changing it would face a strong resistance IMO. If they didn't change it for all-timers like Wilt and Shaq, I don't think they would for a guy like Jordan.

It shouldn't be a personal issue as in changing it for a certain player, it should be about common sense and showing the best level of basketball possible.

Personally I feel that the game would be a lot more enjoyable to watch if a team could choose any player on the court to take any free throws at any time they are to be shot. In most cases this would also force players to really try and block shots or not, and play perfect defense instead of just hitting a guy going for a layup or dunk hard across the arms while being in vinsinity of the ball.
Less FTs, less breaks and more basketball that is fun to watch, win win win.

[Jasi]

His normal rate was ****ing insane, teams would still have to foul him in order to prevent him from getting easy buckets but that would mean having to actually risk their 5 fouling out and possibly a lot of and 1s.

Insane as it was, it wasn't higher than what it would be if he went to the line at every possession, at a 70% rate.

[Akhenaten]

Personally I feel that the game would be a lot more enjoyable to watch if a team could choose any player on the court to take any free throws at any time they are to be shot. In most cases this would also force players to really try and block shots or not, and play perfect defense instead of just hitting a guy going for a layup or dunk hard across the arms while being in vinsinity of the ball.
Less FTs, less breaks and more basketball that is fun to watch, win win win.

Are you JVG?
if so you are one goofy dude man but you make me laugh

[I<3NBA]

any player that can't shoot an unguarded all the time in the world to shoot it shot at a 50% clip doesn't deserve to be on the court.

it's "basket" ball. it's supposed to go in the "basket." the sports is about putting the ball in the basket and you can't put it in? :facepalm

it's players who can't drain open shots and who suck at fundamentals who should be gone from this game.

[wakencdukest]

Fouling someone off the ball is a bitch move. They need to penalize teams for that. Popovitch pulling that shit in the first half against Dwight a couple of years back was despicable.

[dunksby]

Insane as it was, it wasn't higher than what it would be if he went to the line at every possession, at a 70% rate.
Going to the line every possession at a 52% rate VS going to the line every possession at a 70% rate? You lost me here.

[HOoopCityJones]

The funniest part is , Shaq kept saying how fouling a bad FT shooter in crunch time is not basketball, which on the surface I agree with. That Clipper game was amazing , but it came to a screeching halt when Pop started doing the hack-a-DJ. However, it IS basketball to learn to shoot your ****ing FT's tho, no matter how you wanna slice it.

You practice your freethrows that strategy is taken right away from the Ops.

[Dro]

Who says you should be able to shoot? There's no way to make a big man dribble. There's no way to force a little guy to get in the paint.

That's not a good way of thinking. Basically, you see that people are exploiting a flaw and believe that all flaws should be exploited. Maybe they should, but they can't be... so why free throw shooting?

I think some of those guys are so bad that shooting 50% from the line, especially after getting tired and banging with everyone, is the best they can do. I don't believe everyone has it in them to 'get better.'

Intentional fouling in general is wack. If you do an obvious intentional foul they should either get 2 and the ball or get to choose the shooter. That whole gimmick was to extend games and add more commercials. It's even worse than hack-a-shaq to watch it at the end of every game.

-Smak
Came in to say exactly this...If we're going to exploit one flaw, lets exploit all of them...You know what, lets make all the guys who can't shot 3's, make them hit 1 three per game or its a tech:confusedshrug: Some guys can't pass, lets make a rule where they have to get a certain amount of assists during the game...I dunno, free throws are a built in part of the game but its still not fair. Just foul him when he has the ball..The Clippers are already penalized having DJ out there anyway because they can't give him the ball. Its not like they run plays for him anyway but still, he can't have the ball for more than 1 second..

Thats already something the Clippers have to deal with and thats their counter strategy. To not give DJ the ball and play 4 on 5 offense, well 4 1/2 on 5...Why allow the other team to just randomly foul somebody who doesn't have the ball for 10 damn minutes?

Now I haven't looked it up but I'm sure there's more than a few teams who have an important player who's a bad ft shooter, I can think of Rondo for one. Dwight Howard. What if every team started doing this every game cause could easily happen. When stuff like this catches on, it just gets worse, then thats when the great Pop will stop doing it, lol. He'll be like, thats not the Hack a Shaq that I know.....

[Dro]

They are punished as they get in foul trouble, risk fouling out, and let's not forget putting the opposition in the bonus. Now it's up to the opposition to actually punish the fouling team. FT shooting is part of basketball, it's not anybody's fault but the lazy ass player who never worked on it.
How is that benefiting the other team just because they're in the bonus? It doesn't matter if they're just intentionally fouling the worst free shooter? And foul trouble doesn't matter, a different guy commits the foul every time, the fouls are evenly spread out. Then just bring some bum off the bench to commit the foul. Its stupid.

They should punished for fouling, not rewarded. Thats not strategy, thats lazy....

[wakencdukest]

any player that can't shoot an unguarded all the time in the world to shoot it shot at a 50% clip doesn't deserve to be on the court.

it's "basket" ball. it's supposed to go in the "basket." the sports is about putting the ball in the basket and you can't put it in? :facepalm

it's players who can't drain open shots and who suck at fundamentals who should be gone from this game.



Why not just encourage your team to flop all the time. If your going to exploit the rules, why not exploit all of them as much as you can? Encourage your players to step underneath people when they are in the air, spill your water on the court when you're out of timeouts, etc. Some rules need to be changed, period.

[dunksby]

How is that benefiting the other team just because they're in the bonus? It doesn't matter if they're just intentionally fouling the worst free shooter? And foul trouble doesn't matter, a different guy commits the foul every time, the fouls are evenly spread out. Then just bring some bum off the bench to commit the foul. Its stupid.

They should punished for fouling, not rewarded. Thats not strategy, thats lazy....
I wonder which one is lazier, an NBA level player who can't sink FTs to save his life, or an opponent that takes advantage.

[CP343]

Disagreed, it's basketball so learn to shoot god damn basketball.

This.

[Dro]

I wonder which one is lazier, an NBA level player who can't sink FTs to save his life, or an opponent that takes advantage.
So you're saying just because a player is a bad ft shooter, they're lazy?

[lilteapot]

That quote is stupid. You use strategy all the time to win basketball games. There would be no hack-a-whomever if the player shoots a respectable percentage. Tough luck.

[dunksby]

So you're saying just because a player is a bad ft shooter, they're lazy?
It's a reasonable assumption, and it's Shaq who said it.

[ThickassGlasses]

It's a reasonable assumption, and it's Shaq who said it.

Do you think every NBA player should be able to sink three's at an solid clip?
How about every player being able to throw down a quick cross over?
Should every player be able to dunk the ball with 2 hands?
Should every player be able to make full court passes on the money?


These are all skills of basketball that some players don't have, and no player with a weakness in those areas gets forced to attempt those things outside of the actual game of basketball. Fouling someone running up the court not involved in the play is not part of the game.

As someone said, teams like LAC already play half a man down on offense, the weakness is already exposed through the process of the game.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Do you think every NBA player should be able to sink three's at an solid clip?
How about every player being able to throw down a quick cross over?
Should every player be able to dunk the ball with 2 hands?
Should every player be able to make full court passes on the money?


These are all skills of basketball that some players don't have, and no player with a weakness in those areas gets forced to attempt those things outside of the actual game of basketball. Fouling someone running up the court not involved in the play is not part of the game.

As someone said, teams like LAC already play half a man down on offense, the weakness is already exposed through the process of the game.

Nothing that you listed is comparable to a free throw. There was actually a short period where Shaq worked with a free throw coach to improve his conversion rate, and succeeded, but he decided to stop with the coaching sessions declined again.

I really don't think that there is an excuse for not being able to shoot free throws at a 70%+ clip in the NBA, it's laziness and players not wanting to practice it. If you know that you're going to get hacked why would you not put time into practicing free throws? Those should be free points.

[dunksby]

Do you think every NBA player should be able to sink three's at an solid clip?
How about every player being able to throw down a quick cross over?
Should every player be able to dunk the ball with 2 hands?
Should every player be able to make full court passes on the money?


These are all skills of basketball that some players don't have, and no player with a weakness in those areas gets forced to attempt those things outside of the actual game of basketball. Fouling someone running up the court not involved in the play is not part of the game.

As someone said, teams like LAC already play half a man down on offense, the weakness is already exposed through the process of the game.
Above post makes me assume you don't know much about the game of basketball, FT shooting is not a specialty, every player that gets a meaningful amount of playing time will have to shoot FTs one way or the other. In cases like what we are talking about, a player doesn't have to be in a shooting motion or even have the ball to have to shoot FTs; it's that basic.

[ZenMaster]

Above post makes me assume you don't know much about the game of basketball, FT shooting is not a specialty, every player that gets a meaningful amount of playing time will have to shoot FTs one way or the other. In cases like what we are talking about, a player doesn't have to be in a shooting motion or even have the ball to have to shoot FTs; it's that basic.

Dribbling is about as basic as it gets, every player who gets meaningful playing time is expected to know how to dribble the ball. Yet we don't expect every player to dribble the ball from one end to the other with a high rate of success or being able to dribble the ball in any part of the offense without turnovers. Some players just cannot do this, same as with shooting.

It doesn't matter how many times you claim certain players should be able to shoot x% at the line, fact is that every year there is a handful of players who shoot about 50% FT, always has been and always will be.

[T_L_P]

Dribbling is about as basic as it gets, every player who gets meaningful playing time is expected to know how to dribble the ball. Yet we don't expect every player to dribble the ball from one end to the other with a high rate of success or being able to dribble the ball in any part of the offense without turnovers. Some players just cannot do this, same as with shooting.

It doesn't matter how many times you claim certain players should be able to shoot x% at the line, fact is that every year there is a handful of players who shoot about 50% FT, always has been and always will be.

And those players should be exploited. Simple as that.

Like I said earlier in the thread, if it's costing your team you take the poor FT shooter out of the game.

[Smoke117]

What does Shaq know about basketball? He made his living off of illegally lowering his shoulder and shoving everyone out the way.

[ILLsmak]

any player that can't shoot an unguarded all the time in the world to shoot it shot at a 50% clip doesn't deserve to be on the court.

it's "basket" ball. it's supposed to go in the "basket." the sports is about putting the ball in the basket and you can't put it in? :facepalm

it's players who can't drain open shots and who suck at fundamentals who should be gone from this game.

lol so if there is an 8 foot 400 pound dude who can score 100 PPG and requires quadruple teams just to keep him from getting the ball... yet he shoots 45% from the line, he shouldn't be in the NBA? lol.

I think the NBA requires all types, just like the NFL requires all types. You are required to do more on average than the NFL, tho, so even the banger dudes are semi-skilled. Most teams have at least one bad free throw shooter.

And we should go further and do it by size. Cuz, I mean, if a guard is shooting 70 percent, that's too low I think. I mean Bron is a career 75% FT shooter, for an all time great that's ****ing lazy, don't you think? If Steve Nash can make 90% why can't Bron... ? They both can make 3s.

The thing is, man, it's just not a well thought out argument. You can say "It's legal so teams should use it." I can get behind that, but to try to make it seem like it's a good strategy or something fair is bullshit. Big dudes are worse at FTs. I think they are also more susceptible to fatigue. Dudes like Shaq or Ben Wallace would go up and straight air ball a FT cuz they were gassed. Shooting 70% as a big man is like shooting 90% as a guard. lol. I dunno why people cannot see that. There's a reason big ass dudes are in the NBA even tho "they can't shoot."

Edit: @ dudes getting meaningful time having to shoot FTs. yea but most people in the NBA don't shoot more than a few FTs a game, at most. The stars get a lot of shots. There are people in there who only go to the line if they get fouled on a put back or while they are trying to rebound.

-Smak

[plowking]

If you can't shoot a free throw, get out of the game. Simple.
How in the world is anybody defending the player who can't shoot free throws? How? Seriously, how?

What is the first thing you do when you step on a basketball court? Shoot and dribble. No one was able to throw down a dunk the first time they stepped onto the court. Shooting is something you've been doing your whole life. If you didn't spend enough time to refine your free throw form, and actually get it down pat to the point where you can hit more than 50%, then shit, get out of the game.

My girlfriend and I go play basketball once every 3-6 months, and she barely has enough strength to shoot a 3 pointer, yet she still makes anywhere from 4-6 free throws out of 10. Why can't I expect DeAndre Jordan, being paid $100 million more to do it, to not be able to make slightly more than my 5 foot 5, no where near as co-ordinated as he is girlfriend? Maybe some of us just have high standards...

[ZenMaster]

And those players should be exploited. Simple as that.

Like I said earlier in the thread, if it's costing your team you take the poor FT shooter out of the game.

They should be exploited withing the flow of the game, that I agree on. Being a bad FT shooter is a bad enough disadvantage to begin with. Running up and tagging someone while they are crossing the mid line has nothing to do with real basketball strategy. A foul, earning fouls(max of 6) and shooting FTs was always supposed to be punishment for doing something wrong on the court against the rules of basketball. It was not meant for percentage speculation in possession strategy. No way in hell anyone ever intended for basketball to be played that way.

[plowking]

They should be exploited withing the flow of the game, that I agree on. Being a bad FT shooter is a bad enough disadvantage to begin with. Running up and tagging someone while they are crossing the mid line has nothing to do with real basketball strategy. A foul, earning fouls(max of 6) and shooting FTs was always supposed to be punishment for doing something wrong on the court against the rules of basketball. It was not meant for percentage speculation in possession strategy. No way in hell anyone ever intended for basketball to be played that way.

They're giving him two free shots at the ring. They are being penalized. What is the problem?

[Smoke117]

They should be exploited withing the flow of the game, that I agree on. Being a bad FT shooter is a bad enough disadvantage to begin with. Running up and tagging someone while they are crossing the mid line has nothing to do with real basketball strategy. A foul, earning fouls(max of 6) and shooting FTs was always supposed to be punishment for doing something wrong on the court against the rules of basketball. It was not meant for percentage speculation in possession strategy. No way in hell anyone ever intended for basketball to be played that way.

Eh...it's a free throw. Deandre Jordan should be shamed into actually being able to make 60% OF HIS FREE THROWS...I mean for **** sake...is that asking so much? to make 60% of your ft's? Coach Pop is such a great coach he's coaching guys not on his team...Deandre needs this.

[dunksby]

Dribbling is about as basic as it gets, every player who gets meaningful playing time is expected to know how to dribble the ball. Yet we don't expect every player to dribble the ball from one end to the other with a high rate of success or being able to dribble the ball in any part of the offense without turnovers. Some players just cannot do this, same as with shooting.

It doesn't matter how many times you claim certain players should be able to shoot x% at the line, fact is that every year there is a handful of players who shoot about 50% FT, always has been and always will be.
Dribbling the ball is different than handling the ball up and down the court like a guard through traffic, nobody asks that of a 7 footer but everybody is asked and forced to make FTs. I don't have anything further to say about this.

[ZenMaster]

Eh...it's a free throw. Deandre Jordan should be shamed into actually being able to make 60% OF HIS FREE THROWS...I mean for **** sake...is that asking so much? to make 60% of your ft's? Coach Pop is such a great coach he's coaching guys not on his team...Deandre needs this.

The argument that player X should be able to hit 60% is not valid. There are ALWAYS a handfull of players in the NBA who cannot do this, at some point you just have to realize that they do and probably always will exist.


They're giving him two free shots at the ring. They are being penalized. What is the problem?

They are not being penalized, they are doing it because it favors them.
The problem is that it is seriously bad entertainment and has nothing to do with real basketball. Basketball was always meant to be a team trying to score and another team trying to stop them by playing actual basketball within the rules and not speculation in points per possession vs points per FT.

The NBA is the only league in the world that doesn't have a rule in place to prevent this.


Dribbling the ball is different than handling the ball up and down the court like a guard through traffic, nobody asks that of a 7 footer but everybody is asked and forced to make FTs. I don't have anything further to say about this.

Shooting the ball from distance is different than trying to get layups around the basket, just like dribbling is different than being asked to dribble up and down the court like a guard. There is no reason to punish players outside the flow of the game for not being able to shoot FTs, just like there is no reason to do it against the players who are not good ball handlers.

[ILLsmak]

If you can't shoot a free throw, get out of the game. Simple.
How in the world is anybody defending the player who can't shoot free throws? How? Seriously, how?

What is the first thing you do when you step on a basketball court? Shoot and dribble. No one was able to throw down a dunk the first time they stepped onto the court. Shooting is something you've been doing your whole life. If you didn't spend enough time to refine your free throw form, and actually get it down pat to the point where you can hit more than 50%, then shit, get out of the game.

My girlfriend and I go play basketball once every 3-6 months, and she barely has enough strength to shoot a 3 pointer, yet she still makes anywhere from 4-6 free throws out of 10. Why can't I expect DeAndre Jordan, being paid $100 million more to do it, to not be able to make slightly more than my 5 foot 5, no where near as co-ordinated as he is girlfriend? Maybe some of us just have high standards...

I think you are comparing your GF to a 7 footer in the NBA lol. It's kind of the same thing as if you say "Yea if I was 6'8 I'd be in the NBA."

It's being a huge ass dude with giant hands and being 7 feet from the ground that makes these dudes unable to make FTs. Sure, there are some people who can... like Dirk or Yao, but that's the exception. Generally, big people suck at FTs.

It's just how it goes. Even dudes like Bill Russell and Wilt who were skill players sucked at FTs.

Not to mention you're not taking into account that your GF has just played a half of bball banging against people and getting elbowed in the face before she steps to the line for her 'hack a shaq' shots.

-Smak

[plowking]

I think you are comparing your GF to a 7 footer in the NBA lol. It's kind of the same thing as if you say "Yea if I was 6'8 I'd be in the NBA."

It's being a huge ass dude with giant hands and being 7 feet from the ground that makes these dudes unable to make FTs. Sure, there are some people who can... like Dirk or Yao, but that's the exception. Generally, big people suck at FTs.

It's just how it goes. Even dudes like Bill Russell and Wilt who were skill players sucked at FTs.

Not to mention you're not taking into account that your GF has just played a half of bball banging against people and getting elbowed in the face before she steps to the line for her 'hack a shaq' shots.

-Smak

I elbow her in the face before she shoots them. No excuses for DeAndre.

Seriously though. She is able to make them, and she has barely touched a bball in her life. I gave her a 5 minute lesson on how to shoot.

DeAndre has grown up with a basketball his whole life. And yeah, big dudes usually suck at shooting, because they think they can get by on their size and physical attributes. Clearly they can, but not in the late stages of the game.

If Dirk and Yao can do it, anyone can. The whole point is, they don't focus on it, and they don't want to. They figure, this isn't for me, it is for the little guys, I'll just do what I always do. Nah, fix your free throws and you'll be a better player overall, a bigger threat, and a bigger asset to your team.

Everyone can shoot free throws. Everyone. Shoot them grandma style. Just put it in.

[ILLsmak]

I elbow her in the face before she shoots them. No excuses for DeAndre.

Seriously though. She is able to make them, and she has barely touched a bball in her life. I gave her a 5 minute lesson on how to shoot.

DeAndre has grown up with a basketball his whole life. And yeah, big dudes usually suck at shooting, because they think they can get by on their size and physical attributes. Clearly they can, but not in the late stages of the game.

If Dirk and Yao can do it, anyone can. The whole point is, they don't focus on it, and they don't want to. They figure, this isn't for me, it is for the little guys, I'll just do what I always do. Nah, fix your free throws and you'll be a better player overall, a bigger threat, and a bigger asset to your team.

Everyone can shoot free throws. Everyone. Shoot them grandma style. Just put it in.

Maybe true w/ granny style, but I don't know much about that.

Dirk and Yao were very smart bball players. You can't tell me you think Dirk's brain and Yaos brain are anything like Deandre Jordan's brain. lol. I think Deandre is dumb as hell. I think, as I said many times, 50 percent is not a bad percentage. They obviously make some of them. But not everyone can be a knock down FT shooter for obvious reasons.

Like I said even LeBron is a relatively bad FT shooter and I bet he's put in a lot of work.

It's many things like mental toughness and skill. Dudes can get into the NBA without being able to make shots, so it's not like 'being in the NBA' should influence whether they can make shots. I can make FTs, you can make FTs, your GF can make FTs, but I would never assume everyone can make FTs. My point was that it may be the best they can do to make 50%. Dudes are probably shooting at least 100 in practice every day. That's a lot of FTs. lol. That's more FTs than I've shot in my life by now, I'm sure. And yet they are still worse than me.

-Smak