Another "record" for Michael Jordan per the media

[Roundball_Rock]

Another option is Pau Gasol, who missed 10 of 16 shots but still finished with 18 points and 10 rebounds, bringing his double-double steak to 14 games, one off Michael Jordan's franchise record.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/12319156/derrick-rose-starting-look-familiar-surging-chicago-bulls

The real record is 20 by Artis Gilmore.

When will ESPN/ABC stop? They claimed MJ has the record for most MVP's during Sunday's Cavs-Lakers game (they credited KAJ with his legitimate 6 but promoted MJ to 6 as well). They claimed MJ had a record for 40 point games when Durant was chasing the "record" when Wilt has the real record. It goes on and on. It is not surprising so many fans actually think MJ has the most MVP's, most championships, and even the most points scored (until Kobe Bryant surpassed him for #1 all-time). The media designates whatever MJ did as the arbitrary benchmark. This is particularly the case when Wilt has the legitimate record since he has so many of the scoring records.

[sportjames23]

Rent free, "Bulls fan". :rolleyes:

[kshutts1]

It's not Jordan's fault, but all of that is one very large reason why I hate the player Michael Jordan. Appreciate his greatness, and all that he did for the Bulls franchise, and the sport... but wow.

[Taller than CP3]

Kobe isn't #1 in scoring all time either, quit making up lies bro.

[mehyaM24]

you didn't know? jordan created the nba.. similar to the architect of the matrix, everything starts, begins and ends with him.

if pau were to actually break jordan's "record", the hierarchy will just mark it as an asterisk, changing the criteria to 6'6" players and below.. :oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

It's not Jordan's fault, but all of that is one very large reason why I hate the player Michael Jordan. Appreciate his greatness, and all that he did for the Bulls franchise, and the sport... but wow.

Exactly. It is the media and his stans, who are the worst I have seen associated with any player in any sport, that cloud things with MJ. Why can't we just enjoy his splendid actual record? Thanks to all these other things it makes some people, including Bulls fans like us, have a mixed view of MJ--and it has even generated a mini-backlash, particularly among a newer generation who are tired of a long retired player being shoved down their throats. I love MJ the player, dislike MJ the man and hate MJ the myth.


Kobe isn't #1 in scoring all time either, quit making up lies bro.

I was being sarcastic. Notice that there was no hype when Kobe surpassed Wilt for #4? I have never seen so much hype surrounding a player going from #4 to #3 on an all-time list of a statistical category. Does anyone even know who is #3 in rebounding or #3 in TD passes or #4 in home runs?

[Dro]

All this talk about Jordan stans..There's maybe 3-4 actual Jordan STANS on this entire site...There seems to be way more people who hate Jordan on this site or try to act like they like him but his "stans" cause you guys to hate him..I don't understand that. There's a million Kobe and Lebron stans on this site and they far outnumber Jordan stans....

There's far more people who seem to have a problem with the majority believing Jordan is the GOAT than the other way around. Now if you're just talking in general outside of this forum then you may have a case but even then I don't see it. This generation is infatuated with Lebron, people don't even talk about Jordan like that outside of the interent, he's been retired forever it seems.

I don't give a damn about Jordan's life outside of the NBA, I really don't care about how he's doing as an owner. I'm a fan of the NBA so I like Jordan. I appreciate his game and to me he's easily the GOAT. But thats where it begins and ends for me. I don't have time to go back and forth with Jordan stans or haters about that. People like who they like and nobody is going to change anybody elses opinion. Its all kinda pointless to me, all this back and forth, 3 ball making thread after thread...Please don't allow 3 ball to cause you to hate Jordan, that makes no sense to me.

[russwest0]

you didn't know? jordan created the nba.. similar to the architect of the matrix, everything starts, begins and ends with him.

if pau were to actually break jordan's "record", the hierarchy will just mark it as an asterisk, changing the criteria to 6'6" players and below.. :oldlol:

:lol

[kshutts1]

I was being sarcastic. Notice that there was no hype when Kobe surpassed Wilt for #4? I have never seen so much hype surrounding a player going from #4 to #3 on an all-time list of a statistical category. Does anyone even know who is #3 in rebounding or #3 in TD passes or #4 in home runs?
This could be fun...
Rebounds:
1) Don't know, but I'd guess Wilt
2) Don't know, but I'd guess Russell
3) Don't know, but I'd guess Kareem

In fact, odds are I'm wrong on all 3 counts. Moses may be up there, Karl may be, Duncan and KG also.

TD:
1) Manning?
2) Favre?
3) Marino?

Home Runs:
1) Bonds?
2) Aaron?
3) Ortiz? ** I got too cute and picked Ortiz (meant Manny, but whatever) when my hunch would have been right... Babe Ruth.

I've literally never watched a full baseball game. So those guesses may be laughable to anyone with even basic baseball knowledge.

[kshutts1]

All this talk about Jordan stans..There's maybe 3-4 actual Jordan STANS on this entire site...There seems to be way more people who hate Jordan on this site or try to act like they like him but his "stans" cause you guys to hate him..I don't understand that. There's a million Kobe and Lebron stans on this site and they far outnumber Jordan stans....

There's far more people who seem to have a problem with the majority believing Jordan is the GOAT than the other way around. Now if you're just talking in general outside of this forum then you may have a case but even then I don't see it. This generation is infatuated with Lebron, people don't even talk about Jordan like that outside of the interent, he's been retired forever it seems.
It's not even a question of a "jordan stan", to me. But rather those that "blindly" call Jordan the GOAT.

Most of them didn't watch him play.
Most of them call Jordan the GOAT because that's what the media and their parents say.
Most of them hear the "myths" and love those, and eat it up, then turn around and kick Wilt's "myths" to the curb.

Honestly, to me, it's an issue of perception. Jordan is perceived as the unquestioned, you're-stupid-if-you-don't-believe-this, GOAT. His stats are better than anyone else and, if not, there's an asterisk by the other player. Jordan is responsible for basketball globalization, and Stern is ignored. Nike is ignored. Mentioning these very real factors is punishable by death. I mean by ridicule.
Reality is... Jordan might be the GOAT. He was that good. But it's quite literally impossible to know. Claiming as such is very close-minded, IMO, because it shows that said person is unwilling to consider the circumstances of all the other GOATs, in particular those without "myths" surrounding their names.

[Roundball_Rock]

All this talk about Jordan stans..There's maybe 3-4 actual Jordan STANS on this entire site....

:biggums:

There is a dedicated core of 7-8 and then a couple more who are less dedicated. Every MJ or Pippen thread features the same crew.

[j3lademaster]

Does anyone even know who is #3 in rebounding or #3 in TD passes or #4 in home runs?I bet most people know top TD passers and Home Runs. You can't compare rebounding in basketball to those stats. TD's and HR's will be infinitely more popular.

[kshutts1]

I bet most people know top TD passers and Home Runs. You can't compare rebounding in basketball to those stats. TD's and HR's will be infinitely more popular.
I know I'm an outlier, but I could probably do better naming the top 3 in any major basketball category (p, r, a, s, b, turn, 3s) than I could home runs or wins or hits (what I assume are major baseball cats).

[TheMan]

I blame the Illuminati

That is some serious shit doe, call your congressman (or woman), this has got to stop

[Dro]

:biggums:

There is a dedicated core of 7-8 and then a couple more who are less dedicated. Every MJ or Pippen thread features the same crew.
Ill give you that, but even then, that doesn't seem like that many...

[SugarHill]

Ill give you that, but even then, that doesn't seem like that many...
3ball's stan potency counts for 10 people

[Dro]

It's not even a question of a "jordan stan", to me. But rather those that "blindly" call Jordan the GOAT.

Most of them didn't watch him play.
Most of them call Jordan the GOAT because that's what the media and their parents say.
Most of them hear the "myths" and love those, and eat it up, then turn around and kick Wilt's "myths" to the curb.

Honestly, to me, it's an issue of perception. Jordan is perceived as the unquestioned, you're-stupid-if-you-don't-believe-this, GOAT. His stats are better than anyone else and, if not, there's an asterisk by the other player. Jordan is responsible for basketball globalization, and Stern is ignored. Nike is ignored. Mentioning these very real factors is punishable by death. I mean by ridicule.
Reality is... Jordan might be the GOAT. He was that good. But it's quite literally impossible to know. Claiming as such is very close-minded, IMO, because it shows that said person is unwilling to consider the circumstances of all the other GOATs, in particular those without "myths" surrounding their names.
I mean, I feel you on this...That is annoying, probably half of the folks on this forum have never seen him play but even more have never seen Wilt, Kareem, Oscar or any of them play. I have seen local video footage of Oscar and IMO, he's the 2nd best player I've ever seen footage of. I live right up the street from Crispus Attucks where he played and of course, I've lived her my whole life. My grandmother used to go watch him play all the time, he was one of her favorite players. She had all kinds of VHS footage of him from local high school games. I wish I had all that stuff, I couldn't tell you where it is now, my grandmother passed 10 years ago.

But to me, its all the same. People who argue against Jordan and claim Wilt or whoever was better have never seen those guys play either so they're going off of footage (limited) and stories/stats just like everybody else. Honestly though if you've never seen a guy play or haven't seen exclusive footage and heard stories from those who actually saw him play, you really shouldn't form an opinion on where they rank, especially across eras its not really fair anyway.

All I know is that for my era, I'm 35. I've never seen anyone in any sport like MJ as far as consistency, being pretty much dominant most of the time I watched him play and his level of play is unmatched by anyone I've seen in any sport other than Tiger Woods. The entertainment factor blinds those who actually never saw him play and call him GOAT just because he dunked on everyone or scored a lot of points..

[Dro]

3ball's stan potency counts for 10 people
I can't say I disagree with you honestly....

[kshutts1]

Dro, I'm a huge proponent of tiers, for those very real, very legit points you brought up.

No one player should be the unquestioned GOAT.

Even if someone had been alive and mature enough to know what they were seeing when Wilt/Russell/Oscar/Pettit/Mikan were dominating.. and also for Jordan, and also for Lebron/Shaq/Duncan... even then, there's so many positional and rule/style differences that make it impossible to tell.

I'm content with knowing that, relative to peers, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Mikan, Shaq, Jordan, Bird, Oscar are all GOAT candidates. That's enough for me.

[LeJohn Janes]

Basketball stops for a day and the forum is filled with thread's about MJ. :lol

No one will ever come close again.

[Dro]

Dro, I'm a huge proponent of tiers, for those very real, very legit points you brought up.

No one player should be the unquestioned GOAT.
Yeah, I have to agree with this statement if I'm completely honest.

And honestly, the people on here that sh*t on Cavsftw etc for hyping up Wilt, etc are wrong also because Wilt IS a GOAT candidate. People shouldn't sh*t on Mikan, Pettit, etc either because they were GOAT for that era. I do have to agree with your premise because at the end of the day, its not fair to just pick a GOAT from one era and ignore all the other eras...

What I will speak on though is that since MJ since of course we've all seen everybody after MJ, guys like Kobe, Duncan, Lebron, Shaq, etc...I can't put them on MJ's level. But Lebron is honestly as dominant for his time as any player I've seen and its crazy people still find ways to sh*t on him. I don't sh*t on him, sometimes I criticize certain skills that I think he lacks but he's easily the MVP basically every year just like Shaq or MJ could have been. When Lebron leaves a team or is hurt, the team basically sucks. That says more about his impact than pretty much anything else.

I'm guilty of bumping that Legend of the Greatest thread many times but its mainly because the video was so masterfully put together, I've never really seen anything like that on youtube. A 4 hour video like that. So entertaining.

[dubnation]

3ball's stan potency counts for 10 people

Came here to agree with this :roll:

I thought this was going to be another one of ESPN's arbitrary records like "first player since MJ to record 24.35 points, 8.52 rbs, 1.2 assists, while shooting 53.1234% in a 5 game stretch" :facepalm

[sdot_thadon]

Yeah, I have to agree with this statement if I'm completely honest.

And honestly, the people on here that sh*t on Cavsftw etc for hyping up Wilt, etc are wrong also because Wilt IS a GOAT candidate. People shouldn't sh*t on Mikan, Pettit, etc either because they were GOAT for that era. I do have to agree with your premise because at the end of the day, its not fair to just pick a GOAT from one era and ignore all the other eras...

What I will speak on though is that since MJ since of course we've all seen everybody after MJ, guys like Kobe, Duncan, Lebron, Shaq, etc...I can't put them on MJ's level. But Lebron is honestly as dominant for his time as any player I've seen and its crazy people still find ways to sh*t on him. I don't sh*t on him, sometimes I criticize certain skills that I think he lacks but he's easily the MVP basically every year just like Shaq or MJ could have been. When Lebron leaves a team or is hurt, the team basically sucks. That says more about his impact than pretty much anything else.

I'm guilty of bumping that Legend of the Greatest thread many times but its mainly because the video was so masterfully put together, I've never really seen anything like that on youtube. A 4 hour video like that. So entertaining.
This. I used to see it that way, that Mj was the only goat. Got a bit older and more understanding of the game and I see that as an error in thinking now. I see goat in tiers or ranges. A handful of guys have strong cases and a few others have decent cases. But I think to single one out everytime devalues the careers of the others who actually have claims to the throne.

On the topic though, that's shady lol.

[Dro]

This. I used to see it that way, that Mj was the only goat. Got a bit older and more understanding of the game and I see that as an error in thinking now. I see goat in tiers or ranges. A handful of guys have strong cases and a few others have decent cases. But I think to single one out everytime devalues the careers of the others who actually have claims to the throne.

On the topic though, that's shady lol.
Definitely lol

[Mr Feeny]

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/12319156/derrick-rose-starting-look-familiar-surging-chicago-bulls

The real record is 20 by Artis Gilmore.

When will ESPN/ABC stop? They claimed MJ has the record for most MVP's during Sunday's Cavs-Lakers game (they credited KAJ with his legitimate 6 but promoted MJ to 6 as well). They claimed MJ had a record for 40 point games when Durant was chasing the "record" when Wilt has the real record. It goes on and on. It is not surprising so many fans actually think MJ has the most MVP's, most championships, and even the most points scored (until Kobe Bryant surpassed him for #1 all-time). The media designates whatever MJ did as the arbitrary benchmark. This is particularly the case when Wilt has the legitimate record since he has so many of the scoring records.

Could you sound any more salty, "Bulls fan"

[Soundwave]

Rent free.

Sounds like those conservative nutjobs who think the "liberal media" is out to get them when they do a good enough job of making themselves look stupid as is.

[aj1987]

Rent free, "Bulls fan". :rolleyes:
He just gave credit to a lesser know Bulls player, ****** "Bulls fan".

[sdot_thadon]

Damn. Turning Mj into a ghost story.

[CavaliersFTW]

It's not even a question of a "jordan stan", to me. But rather those that "blindly" call Jordan the GOAT.

Most of them didn't watch him play.
Most of them call Jordan the GOAT because that's what the media and their parents say.
Most of them hear the "myths" and love those, and eat it up, then turn around and kick Wilt's "myths" to the curb.

Honestly, to me, it's an issue of perception. Jordan is perceived as the unquestioned, you're-stupid-if-you-don't-believe-this, GOAT. His stats are better than anyone else and, if not, there's an asterisk by the other player. Jordan is responsible for basketball globalization, and Stern is ignored. Nike is ignored. Mentioning these very real factors is punishable by death. I mean by ridicule.
Reality is... Jordan might be the GOAT. He was that good. But it's quite literally impossible to know. Claiming as such is very close-minded, IMO, because it shows that said person is unwilling to consider the circumstances of all the other GOATs, in particular those without "myths" surrounding their names.
:applause:

[3ball]

MJ was the greatest playoff and Finals performer of all-time.

There isn't anyone close, so that alone separates him from everyone.

[CavaliersFTW]

MJ was the greatest playoff and Finals performer of all-time.

There isn't anyone close, so that alone separates him from everyone.
Jerry West is very close in that department

Also, do you penalize players for failing to even make the Finals and/or playoffs?

What if players play in one or several Finals after their prime (like.. Jerry West) are they penalized for their lower stats being that they are past their prime?

Wizards Jordan couldn't even make the Finals but let's assume he did.. it surely would have lowered his stellar Finals statistics would it have not? Yet he didn't even make the Finals so that's somehow... better?

[3ball]

Jerry West is very close in that department

Also, do you penalize players for failing to even make the Finals and/or playoffs?

What if players play in one or several Finals after their prime (like.. Jerry West) are they penalized for their lower stats being that they are past their prime?

Wizards Jordan couldn't even make the Finals but let's assume he did.. it surely would have lowered his stellar Finals statistics would it have not? Yet he didn't even make the Finals so that's somehow... better?


Jordan had the best stats whether he made the Finals or not.

By your criteria of not considering winning, Jordan is still the best.

[CavaliersFTW]

Jordan had the best stats whether he made the Finals or not.

By your criteria of not considering winning, Jordan is still the best.
By my criteria Wilt or Bill Russell is the best, Kareem and MJ a reasonable second.

My criteria is, who's the MDE (Wilt) or who's the winningest ever (Russell). 1a and 1b very simple, MJ isn't either of those two things though he's got the next best resume along side Kareem so that's why I generally put them as the 2a and b

[3ball]

By my criteria Wilt or Bill Russell is the best, Kareem and MJ a reasonable second.

My criteria is, who's the MDE (Wilt) or who's the winningest ever (Russell). 1a and 1b very simple, MJ isn't either of those two things though he's got the next best resume along side Kareem so that's why I generally put them as the 2a and b
MJ is the most dominant playoff and Finals performer ever.

Wilt isn't remotely close.. neither is anyone else.
.

[CavaliersFTW]

MJ is the most dominant playoff and Finals performer ever.

Wilt isn't close.. neither is anyone else.
How many rebounds MJ get in the Finals? Blocked shots? Domination isn't just scoring points. Which Finals game/series of MJ's is better than Elgin's in 1962?

Like I said MJ failed to make the playoffs and Finals during times other players were making it there. Elgin lead his Lakers to the Finals as a ROOKIE. Yet he's penalized for it, where as MJ isn't even though he failed to even make it there? ...why not credit him with 0 stats those seasons... then see how dominant he looks in comparison to someone like Bill Russell, who was making it there all but 1 season.

If you are to give praise for Finals/Playoffs performances, why not hold against when it doesn't happen?

Playoffs/Finals/Winning are a team thing. Winningest ever, Russell.

MDE, Wilt. Wilt didn't have the opportunities to make the Finals his greatest scoring seasons. If he would have played the Lakers in '62 in the Finals (a team he averaged over 55 points against in '62 and won every single game), he'd be the "MDE" Finals performer too.

But, there's no such thing as if's. That's why I keep two categories. Winningest and MDE. Wilt and Russell.

Kareem and MJ are 2nd due to their resume's. My choice of criteria is my opinion of course, but my opinion is supported by facts. The most dominant ever is Wilt he has 96 records some of them unfathomably untouchable and that isn't close, and the winningest ever is Russell and that isn't close either. That's why I put them at the top. If you're critieria is different than fine. But it isn't going to change my criteria.

[3ball]

Which Finals game/series of MJ's is better than Elgin's in 1962?


Jordan's 1991 Finals - 33 PPG is better than Elgin's 40 PPG when you factor pace into it... and Jordan's 11 APG is just as impressive as Elgin's pace-enhanced rebound totals.

I'd take Jordan's 1993 Finals over Elgin's 1962 as well... Jordan's 41 PPG turns into 55 PPG if you account for pace.

I'd actually take Jordan's 1992, 1997 and 1998 Finals over Elgin's 1962 as well, based off the normalized stats again, but also MJ's great clutch play in those Finals.





Like I said MJ failed to make the playoffs and Finals during times other players were making it there.


Jordan won more championships than anyone other than Russell, with the highest ring FREQUENCY... Jordan won 6 in 13 seasons as a Bull... so he had fewer ring-less years than anyone.

also, MJ never failed to make the playoffs as a Bull... the fact that you give his Wizards years so much weight shows that you never watched MJ as a Bull - i can tell... if you had, you'd completely disregard those Wizard years.





The most dominant ever is Wilt he has 96 records some of them unfathomably untouchable and that isn't close, and the winningest ever is Russell and that isn't close either. That's why I put them at the top.


MJ hindered teammates the LEAST while getting his stats - they were free to play their game and unaffected by Jordan's presence... accordingly, his teams had much higher ceilings than Wilt's - this is big part of the reason Jordan was better than Wilt (and all players).

And remember, Jordan's scoring was GOAT - so he was just adding his GOAT scoring production right on top of what was already there without diminishing anything - hence, his teams had the highest ceiling of any player.
.

[LeBird]

Jerry West is very close in that department

Also, do you penalize players for failing to even make the Finals and/or playoffs?

What if players play in one or several Finals after their prime (like.. Jerry West) are they penalized for their lower stats being that they are past their prime?

Wizards Jordan couldn't even make the Finals but let's assume he did.. it surely would have lowered his stellar Finals statistics would it have not? Yet he didn't even make the Finals so that's somehow... better?

Great point. :applause:

If MJ carried those Wizards to the NBA finals it would have eclipsed anything he had done before IMO. It would have been a ridiculous achievement in consideration of the talent around him, against him, and also considering his age.

Yet if he had gone to the finals, lost, or hadn't been the most dominant player...a different kind of idiot would bring up things like "6/7, he's not perfect anymore".

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Lol at you people arguing between betas/losers/weak-era players like Jordan, Russell, Wilt, Baylor, West...There is only one true GOAT: LeBron James.

[TheMan]

Lol at you people arguing between betas/losers/weak-era players like Jordan, Russell, Wilt, Baylor, West...There is only one true GOAT: LeBron James.
:oldlol:

That was funny, man :applause:

Go back to bed now, 13 year olds shouldn't up that late

[sdot_thadon]

MJ was the greatest playoff and Finals performer of all-time.

There isn't anyone close, so that alone separates him from everyone.


Rent free, "Bulls fan". :rolleyes:

Pretty funny that some of you(jordan guys) took the time to come into the thread to attack posters, ridicule the topic, or spout non relevant nonsense but nobody addressed the op. Guess that says enough?

[sportjames23]

Pretty funny that some of you(jordan guys) took the time to come into the thread to attack posters, ridicule the topic, or spout non relevant nonsense but nobody addressed the op. Guess that says enough?


No, it says that this dude keeps dumping on MJ. Just about all his posts are anti-MJ posts. And this guy is supposed to be a Bulls fan? GTFO.

I've never seen anyone shit on the GOAT player in their franchise. Real Lakers fans don't shit on Kareem or Magic. Real Celtics fans don't shit on Bird.

But this dude is always spewing MJ hate.

**** him. All he deserves is ridicule.

Oh, and **** you, too.

[triangleoffense]

you didn't know? jordan created the nba.. similar to the architect of the matrix, everything starts, begins and ends with him.

if pau were to actually break jordan's "record", the hierarchy will just mark it as an asterisk, changing the criteria to 6'6" players and below.. :oldlol:
nah, but he did create nike, espn and the hype machine that is now teh pussified NBA

[LAZERUSS]

How many rebounds MJ get in the Finals? Blocked shots? Domination isn't just scoring points. Which Finals game/series of MJ's is better than Elgin's in 1962?

Like I said MJ failed to make the playoffs and Finals during times other players were making it there. Elgin lead his Lakers to the Finals as a ROOKIE. Yet he's penalized for it, where as MJ isn't even though he failed to even make it there? ...why not credit him with 0 stats those seasons... then see how dominant he looks in comparison to someone like Bill Russell, who was making it there all but 1 season.

If you are to give praise for Finals/Playoffs performances, why not hold against when it doesn't happen?

Playoffs/Finals/Winning are a team thing. Winningest ever, Russell.

MDE, Wilt. Wilt didn't have the opportunities to make the Finals his greatest scoring seasons. If he would have played the Lakers in '62 in the Finals (a team he averaged over 55 points against in '62 and won every single game), he'd be the "MDE" Finals performer too.

But, there's no such thing as if's. That's why I keep two categories. Winningest and MDE. Wilt and Russell.

Kareem and MJ are 2nd due to their resume's. My choice of criteria is my opinion of course, but my opinion is supported by facts. The most dominant ever is Wilt he has 96 records some of them unfathomably untouchable and that isn't close, and the winningest ever is Russell and that isn't close either. That's why I put them at the top. If you're critieria is different than fine. But it isn't going to change my criteria.


Psileas actually pointed this fact out long ago, but it is certainly worth repeating...

had Wilt been fortunate enough to have faced the Lakers in the post-season, from '60 thru '68, and he likely would own many playoff (or perhaps Finals) scoring records. And we are not talking about one or two "small samples" either, but rather, his entire H2H play against LA (and Minny) from '60 thru '68...and in seasons of between 7 to 12 H2H games.

Keep in mind that Russell WAS fortunate enough to have faced the Lakers FIVE times in the post-season in that span (actually six, but in the last one, he faced Wilt, and as expected, did absolutely nothing offensively), and it was against LA in which he elevated his playoff scoring and FG%. In fact, remove the Lakers from his post-seasons, and his offensive production would have dropped considerably.

Here were Russell's numbers against LA in those five series:

'62:

Russell averaged 18.9 ppg on a .457 FG% in his regular season against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 22.9 ppg on a .543 FG%. Which included a game seven of 30 points and 40 rebounds.

BTW, against Wilt in the '62 EDF's: 22.0 ppg on a .399 FG%


'63:

Russell averaged 16.8 ppg on a .432 FG% in his regular season.

Against LA in the Finals: 20 ppg on a .467 FG%


'65:

Russell averaged 14.1 ppg on a .438 FG% against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 17.8 ppg on a .702 FG% (yes, .702.)

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 15.6 ppg on a .447 FG%


'66:

Russell averaged 12.9 ppg on a .415 FG% against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 23.6 ppg on a .538 FG%

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 14.0 ppg on a .423 FG%


'68:

Russell averaged 12.5 ppg on a .425 FG% against the NBA

Against LA in the Finals: 17.3 ppg on a .430 FG%

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 13.7 ppg on a .440 FG%


Oh, and here were Russell's stats in the '69 Finals against Wilt:

Regular season against the NBA: 9.9 ppg on a .433 FG%

Against Wilt in the Finals: 9.0 ppg on a .397 FG%


Again, had Wilt faced the Lakers in any of his nine seasons in the league from '60 thru '68, and he likely would own at least some, (if not a vast majority), playoff and perhaps Finals, scoring records (and perhaps FG% records, as well, since Russell shot .702 against LA in '65.)

And once again, in Wilt's regular seasons, he was facing LA between 7 to 12 games in each season, with an average of about 10.

Also keep in mind that the Lakers were in the Western Conference, and Wilt only had two seasons in the Western Conference from '60 thru '68, and in one of those, his team was so bad, that he didn't make the playoffs, despite a 44.8 ppg season on .528 shooting.


Ok, here we go:

'59-60:

Against the entire NBA that season: 37.6 ppg on a .461 FG%

Against the Lakers in 9 H2H's: 36.8 ppg on a .430 FG%

High games of 41, 41, 41, 45, and 52.


'60-61:

Against the entire NBA: 38.4 ppg on a .509 FG%

Against the Lakers in 10 H2H's: 40.1 ppg on a .506 FG%

High games were 41, 41, 43, 44, 46, and 56 points.


'61-62:

Against the entire NBA: 50.4 ppg on a .506 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2H games: 51.6 ppg on a .503 FG%

High games of 48, 56, 57, 60, 60, and 78 (with 43 rebounds.)


'62-63: Against the entire NBA: 44.8 ppg on a .528 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 48.6 ppg on a .541 FG%

High games of 40, 40, 42, 53, 63, and 72 points.


'63-64: Against the entire NBA: 36.9 ppg on a .524 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 44.3 ppg on a .484 FG%

High games of 40, 41, 47, 49, 50, 55, and 59 points.


'64-65: Against the entire NBA: 34.7 ppg on a .510 FG%

Against LA in 8 H2Hs: 29.9 ppg on a .476 FG%

High games of 40, 40, and 41 points.


'65-66: Against the entire NBA: 33.5 ppg on a .540 FG%

Against LA in 10 H2Hs: 40.8 ppg on a .559 FG%

High games of 42, 49, 53, and 65 points.


'66-67: Against the entire NBA: 24.1 ppg on a .683 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2Hs: 26.4 ppg on a .759 FG%

High games of 32, 37, and 39 points.


'67-68: Against the entire NBA: 24.3 ppg on a .595 FG%

Against LA in 7 H2Hs: 28.1 ppg on a .638 FG%

High games of 31, 32, 35, and 53 points.


Overall, in those 86 games:

40 Point Games: 42

50 Point Games: 19

60 Point Games: 7

70 Point Games: 2

High game of 78 points.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[sdot_thadon]

No, it says that this dude keeps dumping on MJ. Just about all his posts are anti-MJ posts. And this guy is supposed to be a Bulls fan? GTFO.

I've never seen anyone shit on the GOAT player in their franchise. Real Lakers fans don't shit on Kareem or Magic. Real Celtics fans don't shit on Bird.

But this dude is always spewing MJ hate.

**** him. All he deserves is ridicule.

Oh, and **** you, too.
I don't see how the op is shitting on Mj, you disagree with his post? I don't see any lies being told, do you?

And dude gtfoh with that keyboard warrior shit. You get so upset over a person who doesn't even know you exist. Mj wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. Settle down, get on youtube and watch some highlights or something.

[Roundball_Rock]

Did you guys catch 3ball doing what the media often does? Since MJ does not have the record for most rings he:

1) Brushes aside Russell's 11 (this is routinely done vis-