Miami Heat are now the 9th seed in the East...

[plowking]

We are 12-22 since Dec 1. Will the team get back into the top 8 at all after now dropping out?

I'm going to say no, since I think we're probably one of the worst teams in the league outside of NY, Philly and the Lakers.

Even when Whiteside is on the floor putting up 15/15, we can't win games, and Spo is undoubtably one of the worst, if not the worst coach in the league.

Team is screwed for the foreseeable future too given the contract to Dwyane Wade who barely plays 55 games a season, Bosh who is soft as shit, and players like Granger and Josh McRoberts getting the ridiculous contracts they did. Then you have the fact that Cleveland will most likely get our first rounder this year unless we finish with a really bad contract. Only thing that could save us is getting Okafor in the draft and trading away Bosh.

I watched the Heat during the 15 win season with Wade out for the majority, and Shaq playing lazy with D-Leaguers, but I at least watched for the sake of something happening in the next few seasons due to contracts expiring, etc. This team almost has nothing to look forward to, apart from Whiteside, and an occasional Wade sighting.

Lucky I'm a Hawks fan now.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Hawks.

[plowking]

Thinking of asking for a username change to Hawking, or Stephen Hawking.

[D-Wade316]

:( :cry:

[aj1987]

This team ****ing sucks. I know that we've been hampered by injuries, but we still shouldn't be this bad. **** Bosh, **** Cole, and **** Shitmers. Send Eric Shitstra back to being a video coordinator or some shit. This team ****ing sucks.

[Mr. Jabbar]

never heard about the heat, when do they play the hawks?

[Taller than CP3]

Wade should sign with the Hawks for the vet minimum

[SouBeachTalents]

http://posterizes.com/wp-content/uploads/atlanta-hawks-logo-wallpaper-iphone.jpg

[Quickening]

Bu..Bu..But most stacked team relative to competition ever. The cancer that was holding them all back has left. They went to 4 straight finals with him, surely without him they're the GOAT team? :confusedshrug:

[Magic 32]

Bu..Bu..But most stacked team relative to competition ever. The cancer that was holding them all back has left. They went to 4 straight finals with him, surely without him they're the GOAT team? :confusedshrug:

The Heat had to beat the Pacers to get to the finals last year.

Surely putting together the best 3 players from the 9th and 5th best team in the east can produce a top seed.

[Eric Cartman]

Heat are shit, Hawks should annex their 4 best players:

Teague/Schroeder
Korver/Wade
Carroll/Deng
Millsap/Chris Bosh
Horford/Whiteside

:bowdown:

[305Baller]

Good riddance.

[G-train]

It's 60% through the season.
Miami will be in the playoffs.

[pastis]

lebron is just too good.

bosh 100 mio contract:lol :lol

ut miami will be without any doubt in the playoffs.... thx being in the east

[305Baller]

Who cares if we will be in the playoffs... we suck.

[Human Error]

It doesn't feel right that our 2 best players at the moment are Hassan Whiteside and Tyler Johnson. :facepalm Everyone but Whiteside and Johnson should be blamed, Spoelsta for being outcoached everynight and saying such stupid things like "Defend with heart, then offense will take care of itself"(how can offense take care of itself? you need to build an actual game plan, idiot), Bosh for thinking he's Kyle Korver, Wade for not having done anything to improve his conditioning during the offseason, Chalmers and Cole for being awful, etc etc.

[Dragic4Life]

:rockon: :party: :djparty :hammertime: :djparty :hammertime:

[LEFT4DEAD]

But 2 superstars though... :rolleyes:

[coin24]

Yeah they look awful lately.. Maybe it's time to get rid of cole and chalmers, maybe send Spobot back to the video room also..

[ninephive]

First the Spurs blow up the Heat roster after last year's finals. Then they knock them out of the playoff race this year. Now they're converting Heat fans to Hawks fans. Well, the last one was kind of inevitable.

[jrong]

It doesn't feel right that our 2 best players at the moment are Hassan Whiteside and Tyler Johnson. :facepalm Everyone but Whiteside and Johnson should be blamed, Spoelsta for being outcoached everynight and saying such stupid things like "Defend with heart, then offense will take care of itself"(how can offense take care of itself? you need to build an actual game plan, idiot), Bosh for thinking he's Kyle Korver, Wade for not having done anything to improve his conditioning during the offseason, Chalmers and Cole for being awful, etc etc.

Wade's problems have nothing to do with lack of conditioning. If reports are correct, he spends more time on basketball than anyone on the team. He's in the building hours before anyone else, according to Miami media accounts.

Also, his contract isn't hurting the Heat at all. He's off the books by 2016.

His problem is he has no meniscus, no knee cartilage and is just plain old. Recurring hamstring problems are "old man injuries."

But, the Heat's biggest problem going forward is Bosh. It's not just that his play is completely unworthy of a max contract. It's that he's not even leading the team when Wade is out. When Wade was hurt near the beginning of the year, Chalmers was the best player. This time it's Whiteside. And last night, Whiteside was out, and Bosh still wasn't close to their best player.

Forget about this year, next year or even 2016. The Heat need to worry about being cellar dwellers through 2018. They'll be paying him max money until 2019. And his performance is only going to decline from here.

The Heat aren't getting anyone worth note in 2016. What's their pitch? A 35 year-old Wade (if he doesn't just hang it up by then) and a 33 year-old Bosh and Whiteside? For that matter, what's their pitch to Whiteside to get him to stay, considering he'll be unrestricted?

Miami needs to get out from under the Bosh deal or they're going to be terrible for five years or more.

[ArbitraryWater]

Dresta, tell me more about LeBron limiting Bosh's game, not letting the other Miami Heat players "thrive"...

[305Baller]

Bosh is a solid 2nd/3rd option. He can't elevate a team but the cap will go up and a core of Whiteside/Bosh/Deng/Wade should be enough for a mid-seed through the next few years.

Spoelstra is re-learning what it is to be a coach in this league now that he doesn't have the spoils and we will see how he adjusts.

This year it's not happening because Bosh is not elevating the team so there needs to be an adjustment until Whitesde takes the reigns.

[OmniStrife]

They would be 3rd seed in the West though...


oh wait.

[tomtucker]

they should be way better with that roster they have......Deng has really not played very well, he was way better in chicago.......but that can

[305Baller]

[QUOTE=tomtucker]they should be way better with that roster they have......Deng has really not played very well, he was way better in chicago.......but that can

[boozehound]

It's 60% through the season.
Miami will be in the playoffs.
meh, I think its a legit possibility that they end up on the outside. They are basically neck and neck with brooklyn, pistons, boston (probably fall off), and the pacers for the last spot. The pistons have been very solid since smoove left (even with jennings going down) and the pacers are going to get paul george back. Its possible that brooklyn blows it up and slides, but there is a realistic chance that the heat dont make it.

[boozehound]

But 2 superstars though... :rolleyes:
it was a joke that they got selected to the all star game IMO. Maybe not bosh, but wade for sure.

[pmj]

I felt like Bosh was a terrible signing at the full max this summer. They really do need to get out of that contract while Bosh still may have some value. It's only going to get worse and be untradable if we wait.

I would also trade Luol, Chalmers, Cole for anything resembling future talent or picks. They have no future here. You can always get people like Johnson to come in and play in the meantime while you are looking to acquire more talent.

[tomtucker]

Mentally/physically weak from exhaustion of 4 straight finals. Also, Bosh has failed as the #1. Also, they don't have a point guard.

yeah, guess so........sad shit :(.......

[Roundball_Rock]

How much impact does LeBron have? The Heat replaced him with a 2x all-star and added Whiteside (to superstars Wade and Bosh) but have went from the Finals to perhaps not even finishing in the top 10 in their conference without him. :lebronamazed:

Injuries explain part of it but every team in the league has had significant injuries through 50+ games. Wade going down is a factor but the team has sucked with or without Wade throughout the year.

I have heard it argued the Heat lacked motivation but there was plenty to motivate that team.

*Bosh had to prove he was a legitimate superstar. Bosh being referred to as a "superstar" in the press became almost a punch line among close observers of the NBA. Bosh's production was that of only an above average starter, not anywhere near that of a max player during his time in Miami. Moreover, Bosh is in the prime of his career. This year was a perfect opportunity for Bosh to prove that he could be the #1 option on a contending team.

*Wade had to prove that he was not washed up. Wade had poor playoff runs and Finals in 2014 and 2013.

*Spo had to prove he indeed is a good coach, not someone who simply was along for the ride.

*The rest of the role players needed to prove they were no merely along for the ride as well.

Despite all these personal agendas that would motivate the team they simply could not produce. This should not necessarily have been a surprise. The Heat without LeBron were pedestrian from 2011-2014. The fact is no LeBron team has ever come close to maintaining its level of play without LeBron, whether that means when he misses time during a season or the following season after he departs. He is simply that dominant in his impact. His departure exposed the myth of the "stacked Heat."

[HylianNightmare]

I'll be shocked if they can't squeeze into the playoffs by seasons end

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

How much impact does LeBron have? The Heat replaced him with a 2x all-star and added Whiteside (to superstars Wade and Bosh) but have went from the Finals to perhaps not even finishing in the top 10 in their conference without him. :lebronamazed:

Injuries explain part of it but every team in the league has had significant injuries through 50+ games. Wade going down is a factor but the team has sucked with or without Wade throughout the year.

I have heard it argued the Heat lacked motivation but there was plenty to motivate that team.

*Bosh had to prove he was a legitimate superstar. Bosh being referred to as a "superstar" in the press became almost a punch line among close observers of the NBA. Bosh's production was that of only an above average starter, not anywhere near that of a max player during his time in Miami. Moreover, Bosh is in the prime of his career. This year was a perfect opportunity for Bosh to prove that he could be the #1 option on a contending team.

*Wade had to prove that he was not washed up. Wade had poor playoff runs and Finals in 2014 and 2013.

*Spo had to prove he indeed is a good coach, not someone who simply was along for the ride.

*The rest of the role players needed to prove they were no merely along for the ride as well.

Despite all these personal agendas that would motivate the team they simply could not produce. This should not necessarily have been a surprise. The Heat without LeBron were pedestrian from 2011-2014. The fact is no LeBron team has ever come close to maintaining its level of play without LeBron, whether that means when he misses time during a season or the following season after he departs. He is simply that dominant in his impact. His departure exposed the myth of the "stacked Heat."

Bron is THAT dude when it comes to making somethin outta nothin. Not saying Miami is trash or whatever, but they looked a hell of a lot better with LeBron in there making up for their deficiencies on offense. Guy could go there right now and instantly change the morale and culture of that team. Maybe even lead them to another finals appearance.

What LeBron's issue (not really an issue per se, but not his strong suit either) is playing with great talent and incorporating his skillset to adjust to said talent. If Cleveland can win another title with LeBron playing up to his superstar standards, dude is gonna be regarded with some of the greatest. Like.. Tier 1, upper echelon greatest.

[tpols]

IIT Bron stans compare 2015 Wade and bosh to prime 2010 versions LeBron initially joined with... :facepalm

[aj1987]

IIT Bron stans compare 2015 Wade and bosh to prime 2010 versions LeBron initially joined with... :facepalm
Lets not forget that Kobetards were saying that Bosh was/is a superstar and that Wade was playing like prime Wade from '12-'14?:facepalm

[tmacattack33]

IIT Bron stans compare 2015 Wade and bosh to prime 2010 versions LeBron initially joined with... :facepalm

I don't see anyone trying to say that.

We're talking about 2014, not 2010.

[tpols]

I don't see anyone trying to say that.

We're talking about 2014, not 2010.

Mann.. Read this entire post of bullshit..


How much impact does LeBron have? The Heat replaced him with a 2x all-star and added Whiteside (to superstars Wade and Bosh) but have went from the Finals to perhaps not even finishing in the top 10 in their conference without him. :lebronamazed:
"

Using this season to say that heat were pedestrian without Bron during their entire tenure.. Acting like today's Wade was 2011 or 2012 Wade who was still a superstar caliber athlete and player..

Being completely dishonest in referring to lebrons replacement as being an all star.. Shit that's worse than those who call Bosh a superstar.. Lol Deng has sucked balls for years.. And is a cripple now.

Just a whole lot of bullshit.


Bringing up last year.. Yea Wade sucked but the heat has the easiest route to the Finals of all time! Their biggest yest was an imploding Pacers team.

2013 was also a cakewalk til the finals and Wade stepped up BIG time against the Spurs and had great games in critical junctions when LeBron lost his shot and started to choke.. Again.

[BuffaloBill]

Spurs crushed their spirit :(



Also they can't win shit without Beasley, and the 2013 finals mvp Ray Allen, lbh

[navy]

2013 was also a cakewalk til the finals and Wade stepped up BIG time against the Spurs and had great games in critical junctions when LeBron lost his shot and started to choke.. Again.
lol, What is this bullshit. Wade stepped up in Game's 4 and 7. The same game's Lebron stepped up in as well. Which game did they win in that series where Wade stepped and Lebron choked?

[DMAVS41]

Mann.. Read this entire post of bullshit..



Using this season to say that heat were pedestrian without Bron during their entire tenure.. Acting like today's Wade was 2011 or 2012 Wade who was still a superstar caliber athlete and player..

Being completely dishonest in referring to lebrons replacement as being an all star.. Shit that's worse than those who call Bosh a superstar.. Lol Deng has sucked balls for years.. And is a cripple now.

Just a whole lot of bullshit.


Bringing up last year.. Yea Wade sucked but the heat has the easiest route to the Finals of all time! Their biggest yest was an imploding Pacers team.

2013 was also a cakewalk til the finals and Wade stepped up BIG time against the Spurs and had great games in critical junctions when LeBron lost his shot and started to choke.. Again.

This.

Although Wade was awful in the 13 playoffs until the finals...he stepped up against the only team with a real chance to beat them...and they won.

Wade was a monster in 11 (better than Lebron) and still an elite player in 12.

It was only 14 in which he fell off in a way that prevented them from winning. Tit for tat. LeBron cost them 11...Wade cost them 14.

Also, this Heat team isn't that far way from being really good. If they were fully healthy and had McRoberts....they'd be dangerous in the East. Bosh and Wade are still forces when right.

[tpols]

lol, What is this bullshit. Wade stepped up in Game's 4 and 7. The same game's Lebron stepped up in as well. Which game did they win in that series where Wade stepped and Lebron choked?

Wade made the pushes in game 4.. He was the momentum creator in that game.. I remember vividly LeBron padding like hell in that game once Wade created the separation..

And what do you mean LeBron didn't start choking.. Are you really going to revise history?

Are you really going to act like Wade didn't massively improve his performance from previous rounds in Miami toughest test/opponent?

[Andrei89]

But we beat Cleveland on Christmas :bowdown: :bowdown:

[SouBeachTalents]

Here's how I'd describe Wade & Bosh since 2010

Wade: Still a top 3-5 player in the league in 2011, a top 5-10 player in 2012 and the 2013 regular season, was terrible in the 2013 playoffs but stepped up in Games 4-7 of the Finals, has seriously regressed/been injured since then

Bosh: Played well in 2011, was pretty good in 2012, had decent regular seasons in 2013 & 2014, was awful in the 2013 playoffs and a non factor for most of the 2014 playoffs

[DMAVS41]

Wade made the pushes in game 4.. He was the momentum creator in that game.. I remember vividly LeBron padding like hell in that game once Wade created the separation..

And what do you mean LeBron didn't start choking.. Are you really going to revise history?

Are you really going to act like Wade didn't massively improve his performance from previous rounds in Miami toughest test/opponent?

LeBron through the first 5 games...really the first 5 games and 3 qtrs of game 6 was actually as bad or worse than he was in 11. He was doing all the same shit offensively.

LeBron against the Mavs put up something like 18 ppg on 54% TS.

Through 5 games against the Spurs in 13 he put up like 21 ppg on 49% TS iirc.

And again...he was ****ing terrible through the first 3 qtrs in game 6. Give the man props for the come back, but if Ray doesn't make that shot...people are legit debating which meltdown was worse offensively.

Lebron was much better defensively against the Spurs...have to give him credit for that, but dude froze up big time in that series until that late 4th qtr run...then made multiple terrible plays down the stretch and got bailed out about as much as anyone ever.

So lets tap the brakes on this revisionist history. Only a couple years ago. We all watched it...and we all were wondering if Lebron was melting down yet again in the Finals.

[navy]

Wade made the pushes in game 4.. He was the momentum creator in that game.. I remember vividly LeBron padding like hell in that game once Wade created the separation..

And what do you mean LeBron didn't start choking.. Are you really going to revise history?

Are you really going to act like Wade didn't massively improve his performance from previous rounds in Miami toughest test/opponent?

The Heat were already up in that game where Lebron already had like 24-25 points before the 4th. It's not like Lebron was chopped liver. I never said Wade wasnt the one who made the final push, but it's just dumb to say Wade stepped up when Lebron was playing bad and they won, that never happened.

[DMAVS41]

The Heat were already up in that game where Lebron already had like 24-25 points before the 4th. It's not like Lebron was chopped liver. I never said Wade wasnt the one who made the final push, but it's just dumb to say Wade stepped up when Lebron was playing bad and they won, that never happened.

Since when is 21 a game on 49% TS through 5 games of a series good for Lebron? Since when is his first 3 qtrs of game 6 good? IIRC...Lebron was 3-12 going into the 4th qtr of game 6. The fact that his team still had a chance to beat the Spurs in a game like that proves how good his help was at the time. No other way around it.

Lesser guys have been crushed for series like that.

[navy]

Since when is 21 a game on 49% TS through 5 games of a series good for Lebron? Since when is his first 3 qtrs of game 6 good? IIRC...Lebron was 3-12 going into the 4th qtr of game 6. The fact that his team still had a chance to beat the Spurs in a game like that proves how good his help was at the time. No other way around it.

Lesser guys have been crushed for series like that.
I never said it was a good series for Lebron at that point. Use some reading comprehension.

I said there was no game where Wade played well and Lebron didnt and they won.

[tpols]

The Heat were already up in that game where Lebron already had like 24-25 points before the 4th. It's not like Lebron was chopped liver. I never said Wade wasnt the one who made the final push, but it's just dumb to say Wade stepped up when Lebron was playing bad and they won, that never happened.
See Dmavs post above..

It's about people calling 2013 Wade a shit player.. Yes he was shit out east and LeBron was amazing against the lower quality competition.

But when it mattered most.. Toughest opponent.. Wade stepped up to at least all star level. And LeBron seriously regressed from what he was doing. Tired of people twisting the truth and saying Wade wasn't capable that year.. And using this year as any sort of justification for what they were years ago.

[navy]

See Dmavs post above..

It's about people calling 2013 Wade a shit player.. Yes he was shit out east and LeBron was amazing against the lower quality competition.

But when it mattered most.. Toughest opponent.. Wade stepped up to at least all star level. And LeBron seriously regressed from what he was doing. Tired of people twisting the truth and saying Wade wasn't capable that year.. And using this year as any sort of justification for what they were years ago.
He wasnt shit, but he certainly was nothing to brag about. Had 10 point games for pete's sake.

[DMAVS41]

I never said it was a good series for Lebronn at that point. Use some reading comprehension.

I said there was no game where Wade played well and Lebron didnt and they won.

Ok, but you see our point...you could make the same argument kind of about Wade.

That every time they really needed him...he was there and they ended up winning.

Just for fun as a point of reference:

LeBron through 5 games against the Spurs in 13:

22/11/7 49% TS.....3-12 in first 3 qtrs of game 6

Dirk in 07 against the Warriors through 5 games:

22/11/2 54% TS.....2-13 shooting in game 6 (lost by 25)

[navy]

Ok, but you see our point...you could make the same argument kind of about Wade.

That every time they really needed him...he was there and they ended up winning.

Just for fun as a point of reference:

LeBron through 5 games against the Spurs in 13:

22/11/7 49% TS.....3-12 in first 3 qtrs of game 6

Dirk in 07 against the Warriors through 5 games:

22/11/2 54% TS.....2-13 shooting in game 6 (lost by 25)
That's why you dont use partial series. lol, first 3 quarters? That doesnt even make sense. When the team needed a big performance most in Game 6 and Game 7 he delivered the goods.

[DMAVS41]

That's why you dont use partial series. When the team needed a big performance most in Game 6 and Game 7 he delivered the goods.

Ah, but the fact that he even had a chance to is evidence of how good his team was.

Which, not saying you are doing this, but many people deny Lebron of having in 12 and 13 when they act like he was playing with scrubs.

The point is that you just don't beat a team like the Spurs with your star playing like that unless you have a lot of help and a really great team.

There is a reason why the Mavs were essentially laughed off the floor in 07 with Dirk not playing great...the team wasn't that good. Just like there was a reason why the Heat managed to keep that series alive despite Lebron really falling off a cliff in play until that 4th qtr of game 6.

I'm not comparing the overall series...I'm just trying to show you and others that that Heat team was underrated in terms of help for lebron.

I don't think either the Spurs or Heat were actually anything special in 13 by the time of the finals, but you only have to beat the teams in front of you.

And it was clear that in 13 Lebron got ample help when he needed it the most.

[navy]

Ah, but the fact that he even had a chance to is evidence of how good his team was.

Which, not saying you are doing this, but many people deny Lebron of having in 12 and 13 when they act like he was playing with scrubs.

The point is that you just don't beat a team like the Spurs with your star playing like that unless you have a lot of help and a really great team.

There is a reason why the Mavs were essentially laughed off the floor in 07 with Dirk not playing great...the team wasn't that good. Just like there was a reason why the Heat managed to keep that series alive despite Lebron really falling off a cliff in play until that 4th qtr of game 6.

I'm not comparing the overall series...I'm just trying to show you and others that that Heat team was underrated in terms of help for lebron.

I don't think either the Spurs or Heat were actually anything special in 13 by the time of the finals, but you only have to beat the teams in front of you.

And it was clear that in 13 Lebron got ample help when he needed it the most.
No that doesnt mean the team was anything and that's because you are only looking at shooting numbers and not impact on the floor. You cant tell me Lebron had a bad game in Game 2 where they won by 18, just because he only scored 18 point. Or that he was bad in the game one where they lost by 4, because he only had 18. That's just disingenuous and only looking at shooting numbers. Had a bad Game 3? Sure. But posting shooting stats doesnt tell the whole story. Started 3-12 but ended up 11-26? That's 8-14 in the most crucial stretch. Not to mention all the important rebounds, assist and defense needed to even put the team in serviceable condition.

[Roundball_Rock]

Using this season to say that heat were pedestrian without Bron during their entire tenure.. Acting like today's Wade was 2011 or 2012 Wade who was still a superstar caliber athlete and player..


The key word is "Heat." The fact is whenever LeBron was out from 2011-2014 the Heat were an average team. You may dispute the causes of that or the validity of the sample size but this is a historical fact.

What people forget about the 2011-2014 Heat is that 2011 was the only year where Wade was still a top 5 player and it also was Bosh's best year during that period. The problem? Basketball teams tend to have 8-9 player rotations an you are forced to play 5 at any given time. The Heat were horrible outside of their top 3 in 2011.

2014 versus 2015 is a very fair comparison. The team outside of its best player actually is better in 2015 with the addition of Whiteside. Wade and Bosh are looking better than they have in years. Yeah, Wade has been hurt but he misses considerable time nearly every year now--including in 2014.


Being completely dishonest in referring to lebrons replacement as being an all star..

He was an all-star in 2012 and 2013--not ages ago.


2013 was also a cakewalk til the finals

A 7 game ECF is a cakewalk? The Heat margin of victory was only +4 in that series. As a comparison, the Spurs 4 game sweep featured a margin of victory of 11 in the WCF that year.


But when it mattered most.. Toughest opponent.. Wade stepped up to at least all star level. And LeBron seriously regressed from what he was doing.

LeBron averaged 25/11/7 in the 13' Finals; Wade 20/5/5. Bosh checked in with a mediocre 12/9/2. So Wade did play well in the Finals but he was not lighting it up. Moreover, basketball is never about a couple of games over a course of the year. It is long journey. In the ECF LeBron had 29/7/5 and Wade just 15/5/4 and Bosh 11/4/1.

[DMAVS41]

No that doesnt mean the team was anything and that's because you are only looking at shooting numbers and not impact on the floor. You cant tell me Lebron had a bad game in Game 2 where they won by 18, just because he only scored 18 point. Or that he was bad in the game one where they lost by 4, because he only had 18. That's just disingenuous and only looking at shooting numbers. Had a bad Game 3? Sure. But posting shooting stats doesnt tell the whole story. Started 3-12 but ended up 11-26? That's 8-14 in the most crucial stretch. Not to mention all the important rebounds, assist and defense needed to even put the team in serviceable condition.

You clearly aren't following this.

What I'm saying is that his play through those first 5.75 games left a lot to be desired. Guys lesser than Lebron have been killed for series like that.

I'm not saying overall Lebron was bad. His play late in game 6 and in game 7 elevate his series hugely and he deserves a lot of credit for that.

However, what tpols and I are getting at is that his team was also there for him and deserves a lot of credit because a lesser team just gets run off that court in game 6 and Lebron doesn't have the chance to make that come back or those plays.

And can we please be honest...if Ray Allen misses that shot...we are legit debating which series was worse.

Lebron was doing all those same other things in 11 as well. The Mavs were running far more double teams at him than the Spurs were as well. His teammates were getting better looks for sure in 11 than in 13 because of that.

Yet 11 is known as an all time bad series...and 13 is known as a really good series. I agree with that actually, but the point is that you can't take away how important the help was in allowing that to happen.

If you can't see the difference in getting run off the court and having a chance to compete....I don't know what to say.

[tpols]

The key word is "Heat." The fact is whenever LeBron was out from 2011-2014 the Heat were an average team. You may dispute the causes of that or the validity of the sample size but this is a historical fact.


I don't care about a few games each year.. It's not a significant sample size. It's a very small percentage of 82 games season by season. It gives us no indication what a prime Wade and bosh could do if given a whole season to set up shop.




What people forget about the 2011-2014 Heat is that 2011 was the only year where Wade was still a top 5 player and it also was Bosh's best year during that period. The problem? Basketball teams tend to have 8-9 player rotations an you are forced to play 5 at any given time. The Heat were horrible outside of their top 3 in 2011.


Arbitrary benchmark. Pau Gasol was never a top 5 player, but he was very good help. Paul Pierce and Ray weren't top 5 players when KG won with them.. Jason Terry sure as hell wasn't a top 5 player when dirk won with him. No one on the spurs was top 5 when they won.

The fact that LeBron even got a chance to play with a top 5 player is in of itself AMAZING. and qualifies as him having great help historically. Very few players get even a year of that.




2014 versus 2015 is a very fair comparison. The team outside of its best player actually is better in 2015 with the addition of Whiteside. Wade and Bosh are looking better than they have in years. Yeah, Wade has been hurt but he misses considerable time nearly every year now--including in 2014.


Nobody has ever said the help last year was good.. Wade was and is washed up. When they were winning and should have won in the years before that, he was not.




Deng was an all-star in 2012 and 2013--not ages ago.


Complete bullshit man.. And you know it. Just stop.




A 7 game ECF is a cakewalk? The Heat margin of victory was only +4 in that series. As a comparison, the Spurs 4 game sweep featured a margin of victory of 11 in the WCF that year.

The heat didn't face a single 50 win team. To use your words It's a historical fact that their eastern first 3 rounds were weak.




LeBron averaged 25/11/7 in the 13' Finals; Wade 20/5/5. Bosh checked in with a mediocre 12/9/2. So Wade did play well in the Finals but he was not lighting it up. Moreover, basketball is never about a couple of games over a course of the year. It is long journey. In the ECF LeBron had 29/7/5 and Wade just 15/5/4 and Bosh 11/4/1.

It's a long journey... :oldlol:

not when you're playing the Bucks and third string Bulls. That's as much a journey as me waking up and getting the mail out my mailbox.

[ArbitraryWater]

DMAVS with your selective stretches "first 3 qts" cmon man :facepalm

They were also down 10 after 3, btw

[jrong]

LeBron cost them 11...Wade cost them 14.

We're generally on the same page, but those two series weren't remotely similar. The only way in which Wade cost them 2014 was that he didn't have a time machine to go back to 2011 or before.

His performance was garbage and tarnished his previously sterling Finals rep, but the Spurs' four wins were by about 20 points each. Wade playing well would have reduced that margin of victory to about 10. Like I said, you would have needed 2011 Wade for the Heat to have a chance, and you might have needed an even earlier version.

In 2011, LeBron's F- grade performance flat-out lost the title. If he would have earned a D (or played any lmao), they would have won.

They lost Game 2 by 2 points and Game 4 by 3 points (James' infamous 8-point game). LeBron cost them a ring. Wade cost them a less embarrassing point spread.

[ArbitraryWater]

"Deng was an all star in 2012 and 2013"


Complete bullshit man.. And you know it. Just stop.

I glossed over this, first thing I read....

There's nothing bullshit about it, Deng was literally voted an all star in 2012 and 2013.... smh :facepalm

tpols with the short term memory loss or whatever this shit is called

[Milbuck]

"Deng was an all star in 2012 and 2013"



I glossed over this, first thing I read....

There's nothing bullshit about it, Deng was literally voted an all star in 2012 and 2013.... smh :facepalm

tpols with the short term memory loss or whatever this shit is called
Pretty sure he wasn't referring to the statement in a literal sense... Deng was already a glorified role player/glue guy in his all star year, and then was totally irrelevant with the Cavs. Dude is a complete shell of his peak Bulls form. Him being an all-star in 2013 means about as much as Roy Hibbert being an all star just last season.

[ArbitraryWater]

We're generally on the same page, but those two series weren't remotely similar. The only way in which Wade cost them 2014 was that he didn't have a time machine to go back to 2011 or before.

His performance was garbage and tarnished his previously sterling Finals rep, but the Spurs' four wins were by about 20 points each. Wade playing well would have reduced that margin of victory to about 10. Like I said, you would have needed 2011 Wade for the Heat to have a chance, and you might have needed an even earlier version.

In 2011, LeBron's F- grade performance flat-out lost the title. If he would have earned a D (or played any lmao), they would have won.

They lost Game 2 by 2 points and Game 4 by 3 points (James' infamous 8-point game). LeBron cost them a ring. Wade cost them a less embarrassing point spread.


2014 wasn't close because Wade was out there doing NOTHING, nothing offensively except turn the ball over, miss FT's (69%) and be horrible defensively.

Game 4 was over after 3 quarters (down 24), Wade had 4 points on 1-10 through 3 quarters.

Game 5 was over after 3 quarters (down 19), Wade had 8 points on 3-11 after 3 quarters.

The guy was a negative on both ends of the court. Even 2011 LeBron somehow wins the comparison.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:oldlol:

People are so bipolar with LeBron. No objectivity whatsoever.

[tpols]

Pretty sure he wasn't referring to the statement in a literal sense... Deng was already a glorified role player/glue guy in his all star year, and then was totally irrelevant with the Cavs. Dude is a complete shell of his peak Bulls form. Him being an all-star in 2013 means about as much as Roy Hibbert being an all star just last season.

Yes.. I'm referring to the argument. It'd be like me saying 2014 Wade was an all NBA caliber player just a few years ago.. No excuses for losing with him in 2014..he was an mvp candidate in 2010... :facepalm

Current Deng might be a worse replacement than 94 Pete Myers.

[Roundball_Rock]

I don't care about a few games each year.. It's not a significant sample size. It's a very small percentage of 82 games season by season.

True but when the same thing happens every time that carries some weight. LeBron missed 18 games from 2011-2014. He missed 26 during his first stint in Cleveland. He has missed 10 this year.


Arbitrary benchmark. Pau Gasol was never a top 5 player, but he was very good help.

The point was people conflate the more deep 2012 and 2013 Heat teams with the 2011 team, which was top heavy. As Wade and Bosh declined the rest of the team filled out during their title years.


The fact that LeBron even got a chance to play with a top 5 player is in of itself AMAZING. and qualifies as him having great help historically. Very few players get even a year of that.

Every top 10 all-time player has--and for longer than one season in the cases of the other top 10 all-time.


Nobody has ever said the help last year was good..

:biggums:

People routinely went on and on about how the Heat were the most stacked team of all-time until the moment LeBron left Miami. After that people revealingly largely wrote Miami off.

It is interesting you refer to Wade as washed up when he is posted numbers on par with the 13' Finals that you are crediting him for being great in.


The heat didn't face a single 50 win team.

7 games, 4 point margin of victory. That Pacers team that narrowly missed 50 games in 2013 started the next year 40-11 and was the #1 seed. It was not run-of-the-mill 48-49 win team.


It's a long journey...

not when you're playing the Bucks and third string Bulls.

It is when you have consecutive 7 game ECF's, a 7 game Finals and a tough ECSF in 12' against Indiana where the Heat trailed 2-1. The Heat had a tougher time in the East than several other teams that won multiple championships but those other teams get a pass. 2014 was weak and in 2011 the Heat steamrolled through the East in the playoffs, although Chicago was a 62 win team with the MVP.

The Lakers made 9 Finals in 11 years from 1980-1991. In one year they faced a 39 win team in the WCF. The Bulls had an amazing 6 different ECF opponents in 6 years from 1991-1998 and swept two and beat another in 5 games (and had only one tough ECSF during their title years). Even the 2013 and 2014 Spurs rampaged through the West. In 2013 they went 12-2 in the West, including a sweep in the WCF. In 2014 the Spurs had a tough first round but easily saw off Golden State and then embarrassed OKC in the WCF in three of their wins.

Why do people act as if champions always have tough roads to the Finals?

Regarding Deng, he is a solid 14/5 player. He is an adequate replacement considering the FA market for SF's last year. What he allowed them to do is avoid a Pete Myers scenario in having a scrub starting in place of a GOAT-caliber player. With a solid replacement a SF and Whiteside the Heat outside their best player are better now than they were last year.

[Rose'sACL]

last year's heat team was bad. i had hope because lebron was looking much better on offense than in 2013 playoffs but heat's defense was so bad.
anyways, that doesn't even matter. This forum makes up BS and states it as facts like lebron scoring in garbage time in 2014 when that was clearly not the case. Everyone who was here during last season knows how many "stacked miami team" threads were made trying to discredit lebron. that stacked team got rid of the guy you guys thought was holding them back and got 2-3 average to above average players to replace him.
if everything about lebron holding them back was true then this miami team should be on their way to winning close to 50 games this season.

[FLDFSU]

Mann.. Read this entire post of bullshit..



Using this season to say that heat were pedestrian without Bron during their entire tenure.. Acting like today's Wade was 2011 or 2012 Wade who was still a superstar caliber athlete and player..

Being completely dishonest in referring to lebrons replacement as being an all star.. Shit that's worse than those who call Bosh a superstar.. Lol Deng has sucked balls for years.. And is a cripple now.

Just a whole lot of bullshit.


Bringing up last year.. Yea Wade sucked but the heat has the easiest route to the Finals of all time! Their biggest yest was an imploding Pacers team.

2013 was also a cakewalk til the finals and Wade stepped up BIG time against the Spurs and had great games in critical junctions when LeBron lost his shot and started to choke.. Again.

You were one of the posters that claimed that Wade and Bosh were superstars and the Heat were stacked during and ever AFTER the 2014 Heat run.

You guys didn't limit Wade or Bosh (or the rest of the Heat's for that matter) greatness to only 2011, 2012 or even 2013. You guys were on here AFTER the Heat's 2014 season talking about how Miami was the most "stacked team of all time."

Not 2012, but June 2014...

And the ONLY time (reason) that thinking changed...was the SECOND Lebron left. Then all of a sudden, Wade, Bosh, and the rest of the Heat became trash...when just days before you were calling them Superstars...

[GOBB]

Keep losing Miami. Sixers fans are rejoicing. :banana: #draftreasons

[Inferno]

B-b-b-but two superstars...b-b-b-ut top 3 team without Bran...b-b-b-but Bran turning Bosh into a jump shooter

:lol

[FLDFSU]

Nobody has ever said the help last year was good.. Wade was and is washed up. When they were winning and should have won in the years before that, he was not.


:facepalm On 11/3/2014:

"We have already seen this past week how good a chalmers/wade/x/bosh/birdman team can play.. most likely a 50ish win pace.

Now you add prime melo to basically this heat team with wade and bosh a little younger even? And the best competition is young Indiana and old boston?

At least 2 titles. 2011 is a lock. 2013 and 2014 theyd make the Finals.. and split it."

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358034&page=4

[navy]

Keep losing Miami. Sixers fans are rejoicing. :banana: #draftreasons
2nd Rounder?

[GOBB]

2nd Rounder?

Nope their first rd pick. It's top 10 protected :bowdown:

[Milbuck]

Nope their first rd pick. It's top 10 protected :bowdown:
Solid.

Which injured foreign dude who can't come to the NBA till 2018 are you guys gonna pick?

[GOBB]

Solid.

Which injured foreign dude who can't come to the NBA till 2018 are you guys gonna pick?

We never took one of those. Nice try tho hater. Maybe we can find an overrated Greek Freak? Hmmm

[AI09]

2nd Rounder?

1rst rounder top 10 protected
if heat miss the playoffs that pick will be in the 10-12 range

[ArbitraryWater]

:facepalm On 11/3/2014:

"We have already seen this past week how good a chalmers/wade/x/bosh/birdman team can play.. most likely a 50ish win pace.

Now you add prime melo to basically this heat team with wade and bosh a little younger even? And the best competition is young Indiana and old boston?

At least 2 titles. 2011 is a lock. 2013 and 2014 theyd make the Finals.. and split it."

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358034&page=4

Had to screenshot this it was so good..

http://i.gyazo.com/9a60bbaa1bb308f4453dbca1dc2897a5.png

:roll:

Troll

[Milbuck]

We never took one of those. Nice try tho hater. Maybe we can find an overrated Greek Freak? Hmmm
Giannis' past 2 games shits on anything Noel has ever done in his life. Any rational Sixers fan besides you would trade anyone on your roster besides Embiid for Giannis right now. Pretty much every credible sports media outlet has Giannis going top 3, at worst top 5 in a 2013 redraft. Stay mad.

[tpols]

:facepalm On 11/3/2014:

"We have already seen this past week how good a chalmers/wade/x/bosh/birdman team can play.. most likely a 50ish win pace.

Now you add prime melo to basically this heat team with wade and bosh a little younger even? And the best competition is young Indiana and old boston?

At least 2 titles. 2011 is a lock. 2013 and 2014 theyd make the Finals.. and split it."

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358034&page=4

They actually did open the season out very nicely.. Then injuries took over and pretty much dismantled the team. Bosh and Wade taking turns sitting out.. They've barely even played with each other..

Doesnt say anything about what they were years ago.

Wade and bosh in their primes in 2011 with Bron gone and another 15 mil to spend is a contender. Wade Carried garbage to the playoffs in years preceeding now he gets an all star pf capable of 20/10.


And that Melo prediction isn't off.. Melo Wade Bosh could easily win a title in 2011.. And again it's possible in 2013. 2014 they would lose in the finals but Miami didn't play anybody our East except a shell Pacers team.

[FLDFSU]

Had to screenshot this it was so good..

http://i.gyazo.com/9a60bbaa1bb308f4453dbca1dc2897a5.png

:roll:

Troll

And this was AFTER having the 2014 NBA Finals for perspective. I am sure if I dig back even further, especially during the 2014 season, that I can find even bigger contradictions from him, much less other ISH posters that claimed that the Heat were "historically stacked."

And I am about 90% sure he was one of the ones claiming, in 2014, the Heat were "the most stacked team of all time" nonsense.

[Roundball_Rock]

You were one of the posters that claimed that Wade and Bosh were superstars and the Heat were stacked during and ever AFTER the 2014 Heat run.

You guys didn't limit Wade or Bosh (or the rest of the Heat's for that matter) greatness to only 2011, 2012 or even 2013. You guys were on here AFTER the Heat's 2014 season talking about how Miami was the most "stacked team of all time."

Not 2012, but June 2014...

And the ONLY time (reason) that thinking changed...was the SECOND Lebron left. Then all of a sudden, Wade, Bosh, and the rest of the Heat became trash...when just days before you were calling them Superstars...

Exactly. :applause: Amusingly, the same people who kept claiming Miami was stacked wrote them off as contenders as soon as LeBron left. The most optimistic people had Miami at maybe 50 wins and the 4th seed going into the season. No one expected them to contend as soon as LeBron left. If they truly had 2 superstars, given the solid replacement represented by Deng and the other roster improvements, they should have been projected to contend. Instead they were viewed a cut below Chicago and Cleveland and in a large second tier that was expected to include the Heat, Raptors, Wizards and Hawks. They underachieved even relative to 5th-6th place expectations but it is very revealing there was no contingent of people saying the Heat with 2 superstars plus Deng would be a contender to win the East.

Let's face it. Whatever team LeBron is on is called "stacked" to diminish him even if people don't really believe it in many cases. (not to mention that other legends also had stacked teams!)

[GOBB]

Giannis' past 2 games shits on anything Noel has ever done in his life. Any rational Sixers fan besides you would trade anyone on your roster besides Embiid for Giannis right now. Pretty much every credible sports media outlet has Giannis going top 3, at worst top 5 in a 2013 redraft. Stay mad.

Who 1 and 2 in the redraft? Hmmm

I wouldn't trade Noel for Giannis.

[Milbuck]

Who 1 and 2 in the redraft? Hmmm

I wouldn't trade Noel for Giannis.
Then you're retarded. Giannis >>>>>> Noel, now and forever.

[tpols]

And this was AFTER having the 2014 NBA Finals for perspective. I am sure if I dig back even further, especially during the 2014 season, that I can find even bigger contradictions from him, much less other ISH posters that claimed that the Heat were "historically stacked."

And I am about 90% sure he was one of the ones claiming, in 2014, the Heat were "the most stacked team of all time" nonsense.

Dude.. You can waste all the time you want.

This thread using a season where Wade and bosh are missing more time than they did with LeBron.. And their current record isn't indicative of how good they were years ago. Stop playing dumb.

And at certain points in time.. Different things can hold true. If someone remarks that the heat were stacked in mid 2013 regular season when Wade was balling out and Heat won like 20 games in a row.. That wouldn't be a false comment.. It would sound dumb if you said that again during the Pacers series that year though since they didn't play quite as well.. But would again be reasonable for the finals...

Dmavs showed LeBron scored worse than 2011 finals through five games in 2013 finals.. Dirk Nowitski never had the advantage of having a 49 TS string of games and winning anything.. Most players don't. If they do they usually had great help to compensate.

Heat last year bombed out in the playoffs.. And despite that made the finals because the competition was so weak. Is what it is.

[FLDFSU]

They actually did open the season out very nicely.. Then injuries took over and pretty much dismantled the team. Bosh and Wade taking turns sitting out.. They've barely even played with each other..

Doesnt say anything about what they were years ago.

Wade and bosh in their primes in 2011 with Bron gone and another 15 mil to spend is a contender. Wade Carried garbage to the playoffs in years preceeding now he gets an all star pf capable of 20/10.


And that Melo prediction isn't off.. Melo Wade Bosh could easily win a title in 2011.. And again it's possible in 2013. 2014 they would lose in the finals but Miami didn't play anybody our East except a shell Pacers team.

2014:

Not sayin Miami's not stacked because they clearly are.. but OKC with a healthy westbrook is just as if not more stacked than them.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324034

2013:
"Because it's a joke how much more stacked his team is compared to all the other teams in the eastern conference. In the west? Yes there's comparable stacked teams.. In the east he is the best player by a long long shot and he has the most help. It's double ridiculous. He would've made the finals the past few years with those Cavs teams because Boston declined big time and the only other threats were indiana and the Bulls who both had similar defensive minded squads except their superstars were way way worse."
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?=8701470&postcount=82

[navy]

Dude.. You can waste all the time you want.

This thread using a season where Wade and bosh are missing more time than they did with LeBron.. And their current record isn't indicative of how good they were years ago. Stop playing dumb.

And at certain points in time.. Different things can hold true. If someone remarks that the heat were stacked in mid 2013 regular season when Wade was balling out and Heat won like 20 games in a row.. That wouldn't be a false comment.. It would sound dumb if you said that again during the Pacers series that year though since they didn't play quite as well.. But would again be reasonable for the finals...

Dmavs showed LeBron scored worse than 2011 finals through five games in 2013 finals.. Dirk Nowitski never had the advantage of having a 49 TS string of games and winning anything.. Most players don't. If they do they usually had great help to compensate.

Heat last year bombed out in the playoffs.. And despite that made the finals because the competition was so weak. Is what it is.

What is wrong with guy? :oldlol: Who writes such drivel with a straight face.

Like I said, posting shooting numbers with no context is meaningless. The games Lebron shot the worst are the one's he lost.

[tpols]

2014:

Not sayin Miami's not stacked because they clearly are.. but OKC with a healthy westbrook is just as if not more stacked than them.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324034

2013:
"Because it's a joke how much more stacked his team is compared to all the other teams in the eastern conference. In the west? Yes there's comparable stacked teams.. In the east he is the best player by a long long shot and he has the most help. It's double ridiculous. He would've made the finals the past few years with those Cavs teams because Boston declined big time and the only other threats were indiana and the Bulls who both had similar defensive minded squads except their superstars were way way worse."
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?=8701470&postcount=82
Are you reading what you quoted?

The heat WERE stacked compared to their eastern competition. Who would deny that? East has been garbage the past few years. Everyone pretty much agrees on it. There's a million threads on the matter. I even said out west the stacked argument doesnt apply.

And in the other quote I said OKC was even more stacked than the heat.. And thats your evidence against me lol

Keep digging.

[Roundball_Rock]

The East argument is a cop out. It is true the East is much better this year but that does not explain this:

2013 Heat versus the West: 25-5 (83%)
2014 Heat versus the West: 20-10 (67%)
2015 Heat versus the West: 7-14 (33%)


The injuries argument does not fly either. The Heat record when both Wade and Bosh play is poor. They are 13-15 with both of them. That is a 38 win pace.


This thread using a season where Wade and bosh are missing more time than they did with LeBron

Bosh has missed 8 games this year. He missed 3 last year, 8 in 13', 9 in 12' and 5 in 11'. In 2012 he missed much of the ECF and ECSF.

Wade missing games is nothing new. He missed 28 games last year, 14 in 2013, 17 in 2012, and 6 in 2011. Wade has never played more than 79 games in any year of his career and has missed considerable time in most years. What is interesting is whenever Wade was out the Heat kept rolling in 2011-2014.

[tpols]

The injuries argument does not fly either. The Heat record when both Wade and Bosh play is poor. They are 13-15 with both of them. That is a 38 win pace.

Bosh has missed 8 games this year. He missed 3 last year, 8 in 13', 9 in 12' and 5 in 11'. In 2012 he missed much of the ECF and ECSF.

Wade missing games is nothing new. He missed 28 games last year, 14 in 2013, 17 in 2012, and 6 in 2011. Wade has never played more than 79 games in any year of his career and has missed considerable time in most years. What is interesting is whenever Wade was out the Heat kept rolling in 2011-2014.


What does the heats record against the West mean for playoff series? Are you seriously telling me you think the East has had comparable playoff opponents the last few years to the west?

Just stop. :oldlol:


And injuries you show proves what I said. Bosh has missed more time before all star break than he did on average for whole seasons with LeBron.

Wade was always injury prone but he's on pace to have a more injury ridden season than he ever had with LeBron.

[FLDFSU]

Exactly. :applause: Amusingly, the same people who kept claiming Miami was stacked wrote them off as contenders as soon as LeBron left. The most optimistic people had Miami at maybe 50 wins and the 4th seed going into the season. No one expected them to contend as soon as LeBron left. If they truly had 2 superstars, given the solid replacement represented by Deng and the other roster improvements, they should have been projected to contend. Instead they were viewed a cut below Chicago and Cleveland and in a large second tier that was expected to include the Heat, Raptors, Wizards and Hawks. They underachieved even relative to 5th-6th place expectations but it is very revealing there was no contingent of people saying the Heat with 2 superstars plus Deng would be a contender to win the East.

Let's face it. Whatever team LeBron is on is called "stacked" to diminish him even if people don't really believe it in many cases. (not to mention that other legends also had stacked teams!)

Forget that. According to these idiots the Heat should be better. Remember, "Lebron ball" causes his team to under achieve and his teammates to under perform because they are out of position all the time.

Lebron's system caused Bosh to shoot all those jumpers, and to consistently get single digit rebounds. "Lebron ball" caused Wade to look like a shell of his former self. And Lebron is directly responsible for Chalmers not developing into Steph Curry. Also, Spo was limited in what type of offense he could run because of Lebron's "ball hogging."

Roughly 50-ish games into a Lebron-less Heat season, where the team almost have as much loses as any one of the 4 preceding years with Lebron, and methinks people like tpols is either full of sh*t, or smoking some good good weed.

[Roundball_Rock]

What does the heats record against the West mean for playoff series?

It shows their dramatic absolute decline. Their downfall cannot be attributed to any significant degree to the East improving this year relative to 2014.

They are 13-15 with both Bosh and Wade. That is a pathetic 38 win pace.



Forget that. According to these idiots the Heat should be better. Remember, "Lebron ball" causes his team to under achieve and his teammates to under perform because they are out of position all the time.

Lebron's system caused Bosh to shoot all those jumpers, and to consistently get single digit rebounds. "Lebron ball" caused Wade to look like a shell of his former self. And Lebron is directly responsible for Chalmers not developing into Steph Curry. Also, Spo was limited in what type of offense he could run because of Lebron's "ball hogging.".

:oldlol: good points. The funny thing is the same people now make similar points regarding the Cavs--who are a pathetic 2-8 without LeBron.

[305Baller]

Forget that. According to these idiots the Heat should be better. Remember, "Lebron ball" causes his team to under achieve and his teammates to under perform because they are out of position all the time.

Lebron's system caused Bosh to shoot all those jumpers, and to consistently get single digit rebounds. "Lebron ball" caused Wade to look like a shell of his former self. And Lebron is directly responsible for Chalmers not developing into Steph Curry. Also, Spo was limited in what type of offense he could run because of Lebron's "ball hogging."

Roughly 50-ish games into a Lebron-less Heat season, where the team almost have as much loses as any one of the 4 preceding years with Lebron, and methinks people like tpols is either full of sh*t, or smoking some good good weed.

Well Bosh's numbers are up. And so are Wade's. But the role-players are having a hard time adjusting to their new roles. But your argument lacks substance... was LeBron doing it all or not? If he was it certainly was LeBron ball... and he did great, until the Spurs.

[FLDFSU]

Dude.. You can waste all the time you want.

[QUOTE]This thread using a season where Wade and bosh are missing more time than they did with LeBron.. And their current record isn't indicative of how good they were years ago. Stop playing dumb.

You do realize that part of the reason Lebron is no longer a member of the Heat is because Wade can't stay out of the trainer's office, right? You do realize Wade missed a ton of games last year, right?



And at certain points in time.. Different things can hold true. If someone remarks that the heat were stacked in mid 2013 regular season when Wade was balling out and Heat won like 20 games in a row.. That wouldn't be a false comment.. It would sound dumb if you said that again during the Pacers series that year though since they didn't play quite as well.. But would again be reasonable for the finals...

Except that you didn't stop at 2013 (much less mid.) As of the END of 2014 you have been going on about how great the Heat are minus Lebron.

You love to sit up here and act like you are talking about 2011-2012. You CLEARLY thought, in 2014, that the Heat were "CLEARLY STACKED."


Dmavs showed LeBron scored worse than 2011 finals through five games in 2013 finals.. Dirk Nowitski never had the advantage of having a 49 TS string of games and winning anything.. Most players don't. If they do they usually had great help to compensate.

Do we really want to talk about the relative loads of Lebron vs. Dirk.

See my post from 2013: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8701542&postcount=90

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/...cks/miami-heat

^^^^^^^^^^^ A stacked team does not look like this

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/...llas-mavericks

^^^^^^^^^^^ This is a stacked team

See the difference. In one line up you don't see the same guy staring back at you.


Heat last year bombed out in the playoffs.. And despite that made the finals because the competition was so weak. Is what it is.

Unlike you and those of your ilk, those on this side of the fence have consistently maintained that the Heat, while talented and a championship contender, are so because of James. The Heat are not some awful team, but to call them "the most stacked team of all time" AT ANY POINT FROM 2011-2014 deserves a 6 month psych ward visit.

[ArbitraryWater]

After 10 games the Heat where 5-5.. when is it that they started out nicely, tpols?

Lemme guess.. after the first 3 games?

You're getting shredded.. you have nothing but you continue your bullshit.

[JT123]

tpols getting his shit pushed in by roundball. :roll:

[tpols]

It shows their dramatic absolute decline. Their downfall cannot be attributed to any significant degree to the East improving this year relative to 2014.


What? that the heat got worse and worse over the past 3 years? I would agree.. They have been declining.

But this fdu guy is pulling quotes saying I said last year's heat was the most stacked of all time.. Yet he didn't read the conditions I put with the word stacked. I said they were stacked compared to East teams.

And they were since the East has been historically weak in 2013 and 2014 especially.

There was a thread on it a few months ago.. The East VS West win percentage was at one of the biggest disparities ever. Their top opponent in the playoffs imploded because of chemistry issues.. Compared to what they faced they were still stacked. I even said compared to the west they were not at all.

Your response makes no sense given what the discussion was about and this fdu fella can barely read at a middle school level based on the quotes he has provided

[ArbitraryWater]

tpols getting his shit pushed in from everywhere... ignoring logic and posts.

BTW, we acting like Deng/Granger/Whiteside isn't much better than 39 year old Ray Allen, 35 year old Battier/Andersen/Jones/Haslem..... ?!

"The Heat were stacked last year" -tpols

After getting owned... "The Heat were stacked, just not always" wut?

Oh yea? So how come they lose a bunch of washed up players (mainly going into retirement as they were done), and ONE LeBron James, in return get an all-star and Whiteside, who has proven to be one of the best defenders and rebounders in the league (top 6 C), and fall to being a lottery which is way under .500?

Something doesn't add up... you have no evidence.

[FLDFSU]

It shows their dramatic absolute decline. Their downfall cannot be attributed to any significant degree to the East improving this year relative to 2014.

They are 13-15 with both Bosh and Wade. That is a pathetic 38 win pace.



:oldlol: good points. The funny thing is the same people now make similar points regarding the Cavs--who are a pathetic 2-8 without LeBron.

Oh, I how I wish we lived in an alternative universe where Lebron picked the 76ers:

These same posters would be talking about how superstar Carter-Williams is really Magic Johnson, and how Joel Embiid is really prime Shaq if only Lebron would "let them shine."

[plowking]

Typically this turned into a Lebron thread, but that was expected.

I think people seriously underrate what Lebron did last season, and even slightly the season before. People point to injuries and what not, but Lebron carried us through that, and through Dwyane Wade sitting. This season it ain't happening.
The dude is an absolute beast, and carries a team like no other outside of Shaq. The problem with this team has never been lack of talent or whatever. It is clear we have quite a bit of talent. It is just that is built terribly with so many flaws that Lebron covered.

Like I've said before, Lebron carrying the Heat team to the finals last season is on the level of Hakeem doing his stuff back in the day. The 2014 Heat team was bad, and this coming from a fan of the team.

[JT123]

Oh, I how I wish we lived in an alternative universe where Lebron picked the 76ers:

These same posters would be talking about how superstar Carter-Williams is really Magic Johnson, and how Joel Embiid is really prime Shaq if only Lebron would "let them shine."
:lol It's funny because it's true. Even before the Cavs acquired Love idiots on here were calling a Cavs team with Irving, Bennet and Waiters super duper stacked. :whatever:

[tpols]

tpols getting his shit pushed in from everywhere... ignoring logic and posts.

BTW, we acting like Deng/Granger/Whiteside isn't much better than 39 year old Ray Allen, 35 year old Battier/Andersen/Jones/Haslem..... ?!

"The Heat were stacked last year" -tpols

After getting owned... "The Heat were stacked, just not always" wut?

Oh yea? So how come they lose a bunch of washed up players (mainly going into retirement as they were done), and ONE LeBron James, in return get an all-star and Whiteside, who has proven to be one of the best defenders and rebounders in the league (top 6 C), and fall to being a lottery which is way under .500?

Something doesn't add up... you have no evidence.

Bruh.. You gotta stop stanning.. And start reading. If you eliminate half a sentence you aren't being honest.


Why are you LeBron fanbois so he'll bent on twisting information.. Using this season as some sort of barometer for LeBron's help years ago? You know you're being dishonest.

You're all just circle jerking each other here and being very petty.

[FLDFSU]

After 10 games the Heat where 5-5.. when is it that they started out nicely, tpols?

Lemme guess.. after the first 3 games?

You're getting shredded.. you have nothing but you continue your bullshit.

:roll: Its a joke. They go from "the most stacked team of all time" to "man look how great the Heat are that they don't have a losing record" after 10 games.

Amazing how HIS/THEIR expectation changed so much after Lebron left.

I will say it again. It is not Lebron's "stans" that indicate his greatness. It is his haters.

They have more expectation of him than any "stans" could ever have. They expect Lebron to single handily beat the Spurs in 2007. They expect Lebron to defeat a team of 3 HOFers, and Rondo, with Mo Williams as his next best player, and they think going to 4 straight finals with this roster is no big deal for James.

They expect Lebron to only win championships with JR Smith's caliber, because anything more would be "just unfair to the rest of the league."

Who else thinks like this unless you think said player is God?

Haters have literally said, that Lebron leading the Heat in all relevant statistically categories in route to 4 Finals, and 2 Championships, over the course of 4 years is not good enough.

I wouldn't even have that kind of expectations for prime/peak Jordan.

[Roundball_Rock]

:roll: Its a joke. They go from "the most stacked team of all time" to "man look how great the Heat are that they don't have a losing record" after 10 games.

Amazing how HIS/THEIR expectation changed so much after Lebron left.

I will say it again. It is not Lebron's "stans" that indicate his greatness. It is his haters.

They have more expectation of him than any "stans" could ever have. They expect Lebron to single handily beat the Spurs in 2007. They expect Lebron to defeat a team of 3 HOFers, and Rondo, with Mo Williams as his next best player, and they think going to 4 straight finals with this roster is no big deal for James.

They expect Lebron to only win championships with JR Smith's caliber, because anything more would be "just unfair to the rest of the league."

Who else thinks like this unless you think said player is God?

Haters have literally said, that Lebron leading the Heat in all relevant statistically categories in route to 4 Finals, and 2 Championships, over the course of 4 years is not good enough.

I wouldn't even have that kind of expectations for prime/peak Jordan.

Exactly. His detractors provide the highest compliments to him without even realizing it.

Another very revealing thing is LeBron's detractors expect nothing near that from other superstars of his era. LeBron is expected to win the championship every year and if he does not it was a massive disappointment. Meanwhile Durant can't get to the Finals more than once with Westbrook (and could not win with Westbrook and Harden). Paul has never gotten past the second round (despite being on a stacked Clippers team). Carmelo has never reached the Finals and made the conference finals only once. Yet all we hear is LeBron attacked for making the Finals five times. :roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

Bruh.. You gotta stop stanning.. And start reading. If you eliminate half a sentence you aren't being honest.


Why are you LeBron fanbois so he'll bent on twisting information.. Using this season as some sort of barometer for LeBron's help years ago? You know you're being dishonest.

You're all just circle jerking each other here and being very petty.

"last years" It's about LAST YEAR.....

2014 to 2015. Comprende?

"stacked relative to competition" is a horrible cop out, but since you say it was the horrible east, you would also have to admit that LeBron was a huge underdog in the finals.

And please, you already forgot how they scrambled against the Nets?

LeBron had to put up 49 on 67% to to squeeze out a W and avoid a 2-2 series (everyone else was horrible)... then in the following game they squeezed out another, down 8 with 3 minutes to go.

But "stacked relative to competition" no... LeBron made that happen.

[tpols]

Typically this turned into a Lebron thread, but that was expected.

I think people seriously underrate what Lebron did last season, and even slightly the season before. People point to injuries and what not, but Lebron carried us through that, and through Dwyane Wade sitting. This season it ain't happening.
The dude is an absolute beast, and carries a team like no other outside of Shaq. The problem with this team has never been lack of talent or whatever. It is clear we have quite a bit of talent. It is just that is built terribly with so many flaws that Lebron covered.

Like I've said before, Lebron carrying the Heat team to the finals last season is on the level of Hakeem doing his stuff back in the day. The 2014 Heat team was bad, and this coming from a fan of the team.
You're a reasonable heat fan..

And Heat last year fell off a bit. But to the bolded this kinda applies to what I said before. Hakeem faced a

59
60
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Win teams on his way to the Finals. Facing all time great like David Robinson, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Charles Barkley.. Some real legendary competition.

LeBron faced

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44
56

Win teams.. With such legends as Kenba Walker, Joe Johnson, the ghosts of KG and Paul Pierce, Paul George and Roy Hibbert.

This is what I'm talking about when I say relative to competition. That shit should never ever ever ever be compared.

[ArbitraryWater]

You're a reasonable heat fan..

And Heat last year fell off a bit. But to the bolded this kinda applies to what I said before. Hakeem faced a

59
60
62

Win teams on his way to the Finals. Facing all time great like David Robinson, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Charles Barkley.. Some real legendary competition.

LeBron faced

43
44
56

Win teams.. With such legends as Kenba Walker, Joe Johnson, the ghosts of KG and Paul Pierce, Paul George and Roy Hibbert.

This is what I'm talking about when I say relative to competition. That shit should never ever ever ever be compared.

43
44
56


Take a guess how many games the Heat win this year, and then another one without Deng/Whiteside, but with 35+ y/o Jones/Battier/etc.

Then tell me how much stacked relative to competition that team was last year, and how much LeBron elevated it.

[tpols]

43
44
56


Take a guess how many games the Heat win this year, and then another one without Deng/Whiteside, but with 35+ y/o Jones/Battier/etc.

Then tell me how much stacked relative to competition that team was last year, and how much LeBron elevated it.
What does this year have to do with last?

There's been quite a few East teams that have made a leap this year. Hawks, wizards, raptors.. The East is certainly better this year than last as young all stars have matured and some contenders like Atlanta popping out of nowhere. Cavs as well and chicago doing a bit of bolstering with butlers coming out and Pau.

Plus Wade and bosh have another year of wear on them and combined are on pace to miss more time than they did with LeBron.

Last year it was indy and Heat.. That's it. And indy imploded after Bynum came on.

You're arguments are just poor.. You're knowingly making false comparisons.

[Eric Cartman]

Like I've said before, Lebron carrying the Heat team to the finals last season is on the level of Hakeem doing his stuff back in the day. The 2014 Heat team was bad, and this coming from a fan of the team.

The Eastern conference was a joke, first a bobcats team without big al jefferson, they were hot garbage, the Nets, are you kidding me, bunch of old wash up scrubs, then you have the Pacers who struggled mightily in the first 2 rounds, had a garbage can for a center, no point guard, and a million chemistry issues.

That's isn't impressive, at all, this year's East with the Hawks, Bulls, Raptors, Wizards, now that would be a different story.

Hakeem level?? GTFO with the bullshit.

[ArbitraryWater]

What does this year have to do with last?

There's been quite a few East teams that have made a leap this year. Hawks, wizards, raptors.. The East is certainly better this year than last as young all stars have matured and some contenders like Atlanta popping out of nowhere. Cavs as well and chicago doing a bit of bolstering with butlers coming out and Pau.

Plus Wade and bosh have another year of wear on them and combined are on pace to miss more time than they did with LeBron.

Last year it was indy and Heat.. That's it. And indy imploded after Bynum came on.

You're arguments are just poor.. You're knowingly making false comparisons.

This year isn't valid to use? :roll:

So basically you can just spit your trash without anyone being able to refute it? Good one.

Also gotta love your Bynum jab... Bynum came to the Pacers when they lost 4 straight, he played in 2 games which they both won.

The necessity of LeBron's ECSF play can't be overlooked. A turnaround from finals to lottery isn't just "the East added 2 new good teams doe" and not mentioning the arrival of another 2 good players for the same team (Whiteside is insane, wish we would have seen him with LeBron)... it comes back to LeBron.

[Sportal]

Well, to be honest, as an actual Heat fan. It's alright, I mean, we can blame injuries all we liike. Giving Bosh that ridiculous contract was the first wrong step, I mean, really? Wade has played like 4 games or something, it cannot get much worse than it is right now. But for all we know they might be saving him for the second half of the season. We only really need to make a mediocre push to secure a playoff spot... But even then, I highly doubt there would be an upset against the Hawks (I would guess). Probably get swept and be 1st round fodder for the next few years, unless they get rid of Bosh and start new-ish.

The biggest thing to come from Miami right now is Whiteside, that guy can play. Maybe with Wade, Bosh and him all healthy... Well, it hinges on Wade really, I don't see them causing an upset, I could see them getting a few calls vs Atlanta though.

But, I like Detroit. Before Jennings got hurt I was cheering for them. I don't mind them making the playoffs, they've been less fortunate than the Heat for the last few years.

[plowking]

You're a reasonable heat fan..

And Heat last year fell off a bit. But to the bolded this kinda applies to what I said before. Hakeem faced a

59
60
62

Win teams on his way to the Finals. Facing all time great like David Robinson, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Charles Barkley.. Some real legendary competition.

LeBron faced

43
44
56

Win teams.. With such legends as Kenba Walker, Joe Johnson, the ghosts of KG and Paul Pierce, Paul George and Roy Hibbert.

This is what I'm talking about when I say relative to competition. That shit should never ever ever ever be compared.

You're using wins as your measure, yet before you said the Heat had the easiest run to the finals ever last year. Yet, going by your metric, they really don't even have a case for top 15 easiest finals runs ever, let alone the stand alone easiest.

And like I keep saying, the Heat were as good as they were record wise mainly because of Lebron. He carried us.

[FLDFSU]

Well, to be honest, as an actual Heat fan. It's alright, I mean, we can blame injuries all we liike. Giving Bosh that ridiculous contract was the first wrong step, I mean, really? Wade has played like 4 games or something, it cannot get much worse than it is right now. But for all we know they might be saving him for the second half of the season. We only really need to make a mediocre push to secure a playoff spot... But even then, I highly doubt there would be an upset against the Hawks (I would guess). Probably get swept and be 1st round fodder for the next few years, unless they get rid of Bosh and start new-ish.

The biggest thing to come from Miami right now is Whiteside, that guy can play. Maybe with Wade, Bosh and him all healthy... Well, it hinges on Wade really, I don't see them causing an upset, I could see them getting a few calls vs Atlanta though.

But, I like Detroit. Before Jennings got hurt I was cheering for them. I don't mind them making the playoffs, they've been less fortunate than the Heat for the last few years.

The the most horrible thing that occurred to the Heat this off-season was not losing Lebron. It was giving Bosh that contract.

[tpols]

Arbitrary.. . It wasnt Bynum on court play.. Not about Wins losses with how he played .. It was a chemistry locker room thing. It was talked about a lot last year.

I feel like everything has to be explained to you like a little kid lol.. Earlier you thinking I said Deng was literally not an all star when it was clear to anyone with a functioning frontal lobe what I meant.. and another poster tried explaining it to you immediately thereafter.

And now this.. you taking another thing literally and being oblivious to its meaning.

And yes comparing this year's East to last is retarded. Every team has improved massively.. Bulls, Hawks, more mature wizards, raps.. Cavs with LeBron and love coming over.. It's a more competitive conference than last year.

I wish there was a way to type slower for you.

[FLDFSU]

Arbitrary.. . It wasnt Bynum on court play.. Not about Wins losses with how he played .. It was a chemistry locker room thing. It was talked about a lot last year.

I feel like everything has to be explained to you like a little kid lol.. Earlier you thinking I said Deng was literally not an all star when it was clear to anyone with a functioning frontal lobe what I meant.. and another poster tried explaining it to you immediately thereafter.

And now this.. you taking another thing literally and being oblivious to its meaning.

And yes comparing this year's East to last is retarded. Every team has improved massively.. Bulls, Hawks, more mature wizards, raps.. Cavs with LeBron and love coming over.. It's a more competitive conference than last year.

I wish there was a way to type slower for you.

Well not every team. Somehow the team that lost the "ball-hogging" cancer that stunts his team and teammate's growth is way under .500 for the first time in 1/2 a decade.

[ArbitraryWater]

Arbitrary.. . It wasnt Bynum on court play.. Not about Wins losses with how he played .. It was a chemistry locker room thing. It was talked about a lot last year.

I feel like everything has to be explained to you like a little kid lol.. Earlier you thinking I said Deng was literally not an all star when it was clear to anyone with a functioning frontal lobe what I meant.. and another poster tried explaining it to you immediately thereafter.

And now this.. you taking another thing literally and being oblivious to its meaning.

And yes comparing this year's East to last is retarded. Every team has improved massively.. Bulls, Hawks, more mature wizards, raps.. Cavs with LeBron and love coming over.. It's a more competitive conference than last year.

I wish there was a way to type slower for you.

the bolded doesn't even make sense, irony


Actually, Bynum being the reason for Indiana "imploding" wasn't talked about at all last year.... well, it was one theory like many others, it was also said it was PG and the stripper, Lance causing issues, players not trusting the coach anymore, etc. it was not "BYNUM CONFIRMED DISTURBED PACERS LOCKER" like you said... Is "lol" appropriate here?

[nba_55]

tpols proving AGAIN how big of a flip flopper he is. :facepalm 2-3 weeks earlier ( even after the trade), he gave Cavs no chance of winning and sucking to recently having them as STACKED.

[tpols]

tpols proving AGAIN how big of a flip flopper he is. :facepalm 2-3 weeks earlier ( even after the trade), he gave Cavs no chance of winning and sucking to recently having them as STACKED.

That was around the time of all the trades.. They looked dead in the water. Big losing streak.. LeBron looking old and off before resting, no rim protection.. And now past few weeks he's looked unstoppable and playing at mvp level. Even acknowledged as such in the curry mvp thread.

You guys doing a lot of work trying to expose with 0 context. Chopping sentences up and rearranging.. Using sentiments from completely different times.

All I said about the Cavs in this thread is that they improved from last year as did the East in general.. Lol. And thats me proclaiming to the world they're STACKED.

They are very good right now but so are a bunch of other East teams.

[SouBeachTalents]

:roll: Its a joke. They go from "the most stacked team of all time" to "man look how great the Heat are that they don't have a losing record" after 10 games.

Amazing how HIS/THEIR expectation changed so much after Lebron left.

I will say it again. It is not Lebron's "stans" that indicate his greatness. It is his haters.

They have more expectation of him than any "stans" could ever have. They expect Lebron to single handily beat the Spurs in 2007. They expect Lebron to defeat a team of 3 HOFers, and Rondo, with Mo Williams as his next best player, and they think going to 4 straight finals with this roster is no big deal for James.

They expect Lebron to only win championships with JR Smith's caliber, because anything more would be "just unfair to the rest of the league."

Who else thinks like this unless you think said player is God?

Haters have literally said, that Lebron leading the Heat in all relevant statistically categories in route to 4 Finals, and 2 Championships, over the course of 4 years is not good enough.

I wouldn't even have that kind of expectations for prime/peak Jordan.


Exactly. His detractors provide the highest compliments to him without even realizing it.

Another very revealing thing is LeBron's detractors expect nothing near that from other superstars of his era. LeBron is expected to win the championship every year and if he does not it was a massive disappointment. Meanwhile Durant can't get to the Finals more than once with Westbrook (and could not win with Westbrook and Harden). Paul has never gotten past the second round (despite being on a stacked Clippers team). Carmelo has never reached the Finals and made the conference finals only once. Yet all we hear is LeBron attacked for making the Finals five times. :roll:

http://i.imgur.com/dhMeAzK.gif

Two excellent posts that I agree with 100%. As you both said, the expectations that are heaped upon LeBron are simply unparalleled. He's not allowed to have a single good teammate, even someone like Bosh, who's won 3 playoff games without LeBron and made just one All-NBA team in his career is considered "too much help". Meanwhile, Kareem/Magic and Shaq/Kobe can be teammates and it's apparently not as big a deal.

And people always bring up 2/5, like making the Finals in '07 is something to criticize. How's every other star player done in that time? As Roundball alluded too, Durant's made one Finals with Westbrook (and just so happened to lose to LeBron and the Heat), CP3 has NEVER made the conference Finals, even with Griffin the last 3 years, Harden's had 3 straight HORRENDOUS playoff series, and Carmelo has one of the worst winning percentages in playoff history, and has won approximately one playoff series in the East in 5 seasons.

[OnFire]

Wade's problems have nothing to do with lack of conditioning. If reports are correct, he spends more time on basketball than anyone on the team. He's in the building hours before anyone else, according to Miami media accounts.

Also, his contract isn't hurting the Heat at all. He's off the books by 2016.

His problem is he has no meniscus, no knee cartilage and is just plain old. Recurring hamstring problems are "old man injuries."

But, the Heat's biggest problem going forward is Bosh. It's not just that his play is completely unworthy of a max contract. It's that he's not even leading the team when Wade is out. When Wade was hurt near the beginning of the year, Chalmers was the best player. This time it's Whiteside. And last night, Whiteside was out, and Bosh still wasn't close to their best player.

Forget about this year, next year or even 2016. The Heat need to worry about being cellar dwellers through 2018. They'll be paying him max money until 2019. And his performance is only going to decline from here.

The Heat aren't getting anyone worth note in 2016. What's their pitch? A 35 year-old Wade (if he doesn't just hang it up by then) and a 33 year-old Bosh and Whiteside? For that matter, what's their pitch to Whiteside to get him to stay, considering he'll be unrestricted?

Miami needs to get out from under the Bosh deal or they're going to be terrible for five years or more.

I wouldn't assume anything. Pat Riley has gone from Strong team to strong team since he stepped foot with the heat. Every time it looked hopeless and then a new team emerges. This is the NBA where 1 or 2 playes matter hugely, you can turn it around if you at least try.

Go celebrate those teams that were pile of shit for 25 years and have 1 good season and talk shit? lmao ok u do that, but i'll stick with a franchise that has been near the top for 20 years and 3 titles within the last 10.

The only way the Heat had a chance at 50 wins was if all things went the right way with injuries. It didn't and Wade, Bosh and McRoberts missed/missing significant time, and they suck. Neither a shock by any means.

[tpols]

Two excellent posts that I agree with 100%. As you both said, the expectations that are heaped upon LeBron are simply unparalleled. He's not allowed to have a single good teammate, even someone like Bosh, who's won 3 playoff games without LeBron and made just one All-NBA team in his career is considered "too much help". Meanwhile, Kareem/Magic and Shaq/Kobe can be teammates and it's apparently not as big a deal.
.

When has anyone ever said Kobe or magic didn't have super stacked help especially at the beginning of their careers? All we hear about that is 'Kobe was carried by shaq'. That's usually what gets tossed around when the topic comes up.

You're currently in a thread where a former heat fan is using this year's injury riddled season in a tougher competitive environment as some sort of basis for saying Bron was carrying scrubs.

He even likened last year's run to Hakeem fking Olajuwon s epic runs of the decade. :roll:

That's the thread you're in.


Kobe can put up 29/7/6 against 55+ win spur and Kings teams.. Just epic competition.. And it's 'carried by shaq' but when LeBron drops 27/7/5 against a bunch of scrub teams it's the some of the most legendary carrying of all time.

Just a joke really.

[OnFire]

The the most horrible thing that occurred to the Heat this off-season was not losing Lebron. It was giving Bosh that contract.

Sorry, shit on the heat but at least they didn't make their fans sit through not even trying like the shitty ownership in other cities? I'd say they didn't plan well enough ahead for LeBron leavin contingencies....and there wasn't much option other than Bosh and Deng. It didn't pan out but best effort at least...

I wouldn't pay $1 or watch 1 game if my team is publically willingly losing on purpose from game 1 of the season.. like seriously why do the 76ers fans put up with it? They've been "rebuilding by tanking" for how many years now? They are playing a SHELL GAME with your money guys in Philly.. think about it. If every player they drafted in the last 4 years was an all star calibur they'd trade 2 or 3 of them right of the bat and keep spending no money and collecting all your money.

But its really no business of mine to tell others how to spend their money I guess. The older I get, the less I will blindly follow some loser owner and fill his pockets while he laughs at us.

[Roundball_Rock]

Two excellent posts that I agree with 100%. As you both said, the expectations that are heaped upon LeBron are simply unparalleled. He's not allowed to have a single good teammate, even someone like Bosh, who's won 3 playoff games without LeBron and made just one All-NBA team in his career is considered "too much help". Meanwhile, Kareem/Magic and Shaq/Kobe can be teammates and it's apparently not as big a deal.


Exactly. They are basically implicitly calling LeBron the GOAT. :oldlol:

Also, regarding comparing LeBron to his contemporaries look at the consistency LeBron delivers. Since he turned 21 LeBron has never had a winning percentage lower than a 50 win pace (the 2008 Cavs were 45-37 but that was due to going 0-8 without LeBron) and has never done worse than the ECSF. When Wade, Kobe, Paul, Durant, Carmelo and others were on lousy teams their records include missing the playoffs and numerous first round exits. LeBron is the one player from this era who can be put on any random team and guarantee at least 0.600 basketball.

[Theoo]

comone guys dont worry

[aj1987]

Kobe can put up 29/7/6 against 55+ win spur and Kings teams.. Just epic competition.. And it's 'carried by shaq' but when LeBron drops 27/7/5 against a bunch of scrub teams it's the some of the most legendary carrying of all time.

Just a joke really.
Prime/Peak Shaq vs an injured Wade and RuPaul. Lets also not forget Spobot, Shitmers, D-League Cole, 934893 year old Allen, no center, etc.. There's a reason as to why LeBron led the Heat in PPG, RPG, APG, SPG, etc. in the Playoffs for almost 4 years.

Again, I'm not saying that he didn't have help, but he definitely has/had more impact on a game than Kobe ever did.

Imagine Kobe playing on the 2011-2014 Heat. Would've gotten KO'd in the ECF in '11, ECF in '12, ECF (if that, with the Way Wade and Bosh played in the EC PO's) in '13, and ECSF in '14. Peak Kobe, BTW ('07-'10 Kobe).

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Even when Whiteside is on the floor putting up 15/15, we can't win games, and Spo is undoubtably one of the worst, if not the worst coach in the league.

:roll::roll::roll: