So... Kevin Love haters, chime in here.

[Droid101]

Timberwolves are the worst team in the West and arguably the worst team in the league (eye test).

They traded an "empty stats" PF for the first pick in the NBA draft.

Why did they get so bad after trading away an "empty stats" player? I thought those guys usually make their teams worse by trying to get stats instead of winning?

I'd love to hear from folks regarding this phenomenon.

[JohnMax]

Ricky Rubio > Lebron

[navy]

Kevin Love is a highly skilled unathletic nondefense playing pf. Not as good as his stats suggest, but certainly no scrub.

Was obviously the Wolves best player, not saying much.

[SugarHill]

They miss him dragging the team to the playoffs.

[RRR3]

Love is great on offense. Wolves needed his offense. Cavs don't.

[Droid101]

Ricky Rubio > Lebron
Case closed.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Rubio and Pek have played like 1% of the games

[LAZERUSS]

This season without Love...

A .179 winning percentage, and a -10.4 ppg differential


Last season, with Love...

A .488 winning percentage, and +2.6 ppg differential

[coin24]

#branball

[fpliii]

Call me an idiot if you will, but I still think he's a top 5-10 player in this league.

[navy]

Call me an idiot if you will, but I still think he's a top 5-10 player in this league.
Offense only maybe.

[bluechox2]

no rubio or pekovic or martin...

take out the whole starting team, what u expect

[Droid101]

Rubio and Pek have played like 1% of the games
Uh, yeah, same as the last two seasons, and yet he STILL almost dragged their asses to the playoffs in the West (and would have gotten them there if he was in the East).

[VIP2000]

Their 3 best players have been injured, and they are playing many rookies and 2nd year players. You're not gonna win much games when your offense is centered around Thaddeus Young.

[L.Kizzle]

Who's better Kevin Love or:

Tom Gugliotta
Sharif Abdur-Rahim
Antoine Walker
Antawn Jamison

[plowking]

Haven't Kevin Martin, Pekovic and Rubio all missed almost the entire season?

I'd think that would make the biggest difference and not Love himself.

[aj1987]

Uh, yeah, same as the last two seasons, and yet he STILL almost dragged their asses to the playoffs in the West (and would have gotten them there if he was in the East).
You're still and retard I see. Bricky played all 82 games last season and Pekovic played 54. Martin is out as well (68 games last season). Not to mention the losing the teams top scorer and rebounder. Love is a great player, but lets not act like the team is even close to being decent.

[Dr.J4ever]

Kevin Love is a highly skilled unathletic nondefense playing pf. Not as good as his stats suggest, but certainly no scrub.

Was obviously the Wolves best player, not saying much.

This.

Love is overrated. He's not a building block for a title, as the Cavs seem to be discovering.

[robert de niro]

Uh, yeah, same as the last two seasons, and yet he STILL almost dragged their asses to the playoffs in the West (and would have gotten them there if he was in the East).
you are brain dead :facepalm

[KG215]

Haven't Kevin Martin, Pekovic and Rubio all missed almost the entire season?

I'd think that would make the biggest difference and not Love himself.
Now, now. Let's not derail the OP's agenda. Who cares if Pekovic, Rubio, and Martin have played a combined 23 games this season.

For comparison's sake, let's look at percentage of team games played for those three this season vs. last season:

Pekovic
2014: 66%
2015: 31%

Rubio
2014: 100%
2015: 17%

Martin
2014: 83%
2015: 31%


Those three players combined have played in six fewer games than Minnesota has played total this season. Now, I or no other sane person would argue that Minnesota with those three players playing the majority of the season would be as good as they were last year with Love, but you can't just start this type of thread and ignore the fact that none of Minnesota's three best players have played in more than 1/3rd of their games this year.

[KungFuJoe]

OP is a retard. For reasons already stated many times.

[dunksby]

Kevin Love is a phenomenal player but he is too much of a liability on defense so he wastes a lot of contribution he makes to the team by bad D.

[JtotheIzzo]

Timberwolves are the worst team in the West and arguably the worst team in the league (eye test).

They traded an "empty stats" PF for the first pick in the NBA draft.

Why did they get so bad after trading away an "empty stats" player? I thought those guys usually make their teams worse by trying to get stats instead of winning?

I'd love to hear from folks regarding this phenomenon.

OK, but lets conveniently ignore the reality.

Their starting PG, C and SG (who was their top scoring option) are all injured.

SO, a teams come back without their starting PG, SG, PF and C from a year ago and you are surprised they are at the bottom of one of the toughest conferences in the history of the game.

OHHHHHH!

Shocker!!!!!

People like you are the reason ISH is dumb.

[Taller than CP3]

Kevin Garnett was more of a wolf than Love will ever be.

[andremiller07]

Didn't Thad Young also miss significant time as well as Mo Williams? What a terrible thread.

[STATUTORY]

Call me an idiot if you will, but I still think he's a top 5-10 player in this league.

:applause: the idea that he became a scrub overnight is ridiculous. Dude is in a BAD situation right now. they use him like he's a hefty mike miller

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

His defense looked average last year. Whats happening now is that we saw without an alltime defensive mind how Lebron really operates. His team defense is putrid he only waits for traps and doubles to rack up steals but he doesnt help put his teammates into good positions. Rubio last year was a better defender than Lebron ever was

[Bigsmoke]

Who's better Kevin Love or:

Tom Gugliotta
Sharif Abdur-Rahim
Antoine Walker
Antawn Jamison

definitely Kevin Love

[VengefulAngel]

Kevin Love is perfect on a team which needs his offensive production and rebounding. But this is not the case on the Cavs. Although I believe if you add any top 10 player in the league on a team he will be able to adapt and play winning basketball, this remains to be seen.

[Bigsmoke]

His defense looked average last year. Whats happening now is that we saw without an alltime defensive mind how Lebron really operates. His team defense is putrid he only waits for traps and doubles to rack up steals but he doesnt help put his teammates into good positions. Rubio last year was a better defender than Lebron ever was

LeBron had Derrick Rose in a straitjacket before

Rubio never achieved all defensive responsibility like that

[Bigsmoke]

Kevin Love is perfect on a team which needs his offensive production and rebounding. But this is not the case on the Cavs. Although I believe if you add any top 10 player in the league on a team he will be able to adapt and play winning basketball, this remains to be seen.


The Cavs needs Love's rebounding and spacing. 3 scoring options is better than 2 and a rookie that might not even get any heavy minutes on that current Cavs roster in like 3 years.

Kyrie Irving is only 3 years old

[VengefulAngel]

The Cavs needs Love's rebounding and spacing. 3 scoring options is better than 2 and a rookie that might not even get any heavy minutes on that current Cavs roster in like 3 years.

Kyrie Irving is only 3 years old

Hilarious typo. Agreed he's a decent fit on offense but he's not being utilized properly, runnning PnR with Lebron and Love would be devastating after some initial action, he needs to roll more and pop less. As some posters before me have mentioned he's best suited when playing along side a defensive big. Someone like Asik would be perfect. Imagine a team constituted as follows:

Kyrie Irving
Mike Miller/ Joe Harris/ Delly/ Allen (3 and D wing needed)
Lebron James
Kevin Love
Omer Asik

Need and 3 and D wing but this would still work.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Love needs to sign with another allstar who doesn't consume over 80% of the teams possessions. I would like to see him do his work, as he did last season and the year before, in the high/pinch post.

Guy is STILL "murder" in the right situation.

[Milbuck]

Love needs to sign with another allstar who doesn't consume over 80% of the teams possessions. I would like to see him do his work, as he did last season and the year before, in the high/pinch post.

Guy is STILL "murder" in the right situation.
I would love to see him in Dirk's place on the Mavs..not comparing him to Dirk but Love in that situation would be unreal.

[chocolatethunder]

The problem isn't that he plays with Bron, it's that he plays with Irving. Irving is responsible for getting Love the ball and if you watch Cavs games, you'll see love calling for the ball constantly while Irving dribbled around and takes a bad shot or takes a bad shot or takes a shot early in the shot clock and never looking to give the ball up. Which is why Blatt sat him in the fourth. If love isn't getting involved offensively, there's no use having him out there. You can't create a shot without the ball (unless it's a rebound) and he's not a good defender.

[Dr.J4ever]

I would love to see him in Dirk's place on the Mavs..not comparing him to Dirk but Love in that situation would be unreal.

I doubt it.

What is Love now? Like the 3rd option with the Cavs? He's never proven he can be the man and lead a team to win more than it loses, much less make the Playoffs.

And now, he's a defensive liability with the Cavs to boot.

[La Frescobaldi]

Uh, yeah, same as the last two seasons, and yet he STILL almost dragged their asses to the playoffs in the West (and would have gotten them there if he was in the East).

came here to talk about Rubio & Pekovic but......... this is actually somewhat true.

I strongly suspect the training regimen of the Timberwolves because they are unendingly injured. Not normal levels of injured. Unendingly injured.

Pekovic to Phoenix!!! Pekovic to Phoenix!!

[La Frescobaldi]

I doubt it.

What is Love now? Like the 3rd option with the Cavs? He's never proven he can be the man and lead a team to win more than it loses, much less make the Playoffs.

And now, he's a defensive liability with the Cavs to boot.

You hadn't watched many T Wolves games if you thought those teams were going to the playoffs. Multitudes of problems - incredible, really just investigation-worthy level of injuries who are those trainers??? - a strong always-injured first squad and an execrable bench - a pronounced, limited vision of Adelman for great offense but don't bother with defense; not his first time doing that, either - Terry Porter utter joke of a coach - did I mention the amazing # of injuries?
I been watching NBA for decades and can't think of another team so constantly wrecked by hurt players.

Nobody short of an ATG was taking the Wolves to the playoffs and if they did it was a guaranteed first round exit, probably sweep.
Injuries are one leg of a 3 legged stool and if any leg breaks........ you ain't winning sh!t.

Adelman was a fine coach, even a great one - earlier on - but heavily distracted by his wife's illness and clearly not the same. From what I saw, Jack Sikma was a beacon of light in the nearly pitch darkness of Minnesota coaching. Why is he not working in the League? That's a disgrace.

[FireDavidKahn]

This season without Love...

A .179 winning percentage, and a -10.4 ppg differential


Last season, with Love...

A .488 winning percentage, and +2.6 ppg differential
:oldlol: Lets not even bring up Ricky or Pek. No, they don't impact the team at all.:oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

:oldlol: Lets not even bring up Ricky or Pek. No, they don't impact the team at all.:oldlol:

Yeah...they sure miss Rubio's .368 shooting. Of course, his "replacement", Zach Lavine is continuing to carry Rubio's "torch" with his .396 shooting. Even his 14 assists last night couldn't avoid yet another crushing loss.

As for Pek...how many games does he miss EVERY season? This year has been no exception.

[Dr.J4ever]

You hadn't watched many T Wolves games if you thought those teams were going to the playoffs. Multitudes of problems - incredible, really just investigation-worthy level of injuries who are those trainers??? - a strong always-injured first squad and an execrable bench - a pronounced, limited vision of Adelman for great offense but don't bother with defense; not his first time doing that, either - Terry Porter utter joke of a coach - did I mention the amazing # of injuries?
I been watching NBA for decades and can't think of another team so constantly wrecked by hurt players.

Nobody short of an ATG was taking the Wolves to the playoffs and if they did it was a guaranteed first round exit, probably sweep.
Injuries are one leg of a 3 legged stool and if any leg breaks........ you ain't winning sh!t.

Adelman was a fine coach, even a great one - earlier on - but heavily distracted by his wife's illness and clearly not the same. From what I saw, Jack Sikma was a beacon of light in the nearly pitch darkness of Minnesota coaching. Why is he not working in the League? That's a disgrace.

Superstars make their teammates better.

I remember a couple of years with the Wolves pre seasons when some experts would look at their team and say, it's possible for them to make the playoffs. Somehow even when their not injured, Love and the Wolves seemed to screw it up in the 4th quarter.

Look at the Suns last year, nobody thought they were a playoff team. It turned out they didn't make it in the loaded West but they were, I believe, a 50 win team or just short of it. Dragic and rag tag group of nobodies created a good team in Phoenix. You're telling me Love is one of the best players in the NBA but can't lead his team to even a .500 record?

What's the most no. of wins Love has ever led a team?

[chocolatethunder]

Superstars make their teammates better.

I remember a couple of years with the Wolves pre seasons when some experts would look at their team and say, it's possible for them to make the playoffs. Somehow even when their not injured, Love and the Wolves seemed to screw it up in the 4th quarter.

Look at the Suns last year, nobody thought they were a playoff team. It turned out they didn't make it in the loaded West but they were, I believe, a 50 win team or just short of it. Dragic and rag tag group of nobodies created a good team in Phoenix. You're telling me Love is one of the best players in the NBA but can't lead his team to even a .500 record?

What's the most no. of wins Love has ever led a team?
Are you kidding me? Look at the coaching carousel and pathetic cast of teammates this guy has had. Just like AI in Philly or Irving in Cleveland or TMac loads of other guys. Loves teams in Minny make KGs Minny teams look like the showtime lakers. The love hate is all about him being white and that's it. Just like every white guy never giving it up to a black QB. It's the same and it's stupid.

[Dr.J4ever]

Are you kidding me? Look at the coaching carousel and pathetic cast of teammates this guy has had. Just like AI in Philly or Irving in Cleveland or TMac loads of other guys. Loves teams in Minny make KGs Minny teams look like the showtime lakers. The love hate is all about him being white and that's it. Just like every white guy never giving it up to a black QB. It's the same and it's stupid.

At least for me, it has nothing to do with race.

You say AI had pathetic teammates and coaching carousels, but AI was still a winner, despite all that and made deep playoff runs.

Can Love at least lead a team to a .500 record? Is that too much to ask?

[Top Gun]

Love lacks athleticism obviously so needs to work under good coaching. Carlisle or Pop would use him properly and would have good success with him.

[La Frescobaldi]

Superstars make their teammates better.

I remember a couple of years with the Wolves pre seasons when some experts would look at their team and say, it's possible for them to make the playoffs. Somehow even when their not injured, Love and the Wolves seemed to screw it up in the 4th quarter.

Look at the Suns last year, nobody thought they were a playoff team. It turned out they didn't make it in the loaded West but they were, I believe, a 50 win team or just short of it. Dragic and rag tag group of nobodies created a good team in Phoenix. You're telling me Love is one of the best players in the NBA but can't lead his team to even a .500 record?

What's the most no. of wins Love has ever led a team?

Again, clearly you didn't watch the Wolves. They blitzed the first half almost every game. Full out sprint. Anybody could see when they were up by 20 or 25 points at the midpoint of the second quarter they were going to be totally gassed in the Fourth. And so it was.
When did they not have a key player injured? The announcers were making a big deal that after 2 seasons together Love Pek & Rubio had a total of 1 game on the court together. 50 something minutes.

The Suns did not deal with nearly the injuries the Wolves had - not even close.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=287717

Nikola Pekovic C Sidelined Jan 17 quadriceps Out 7-10 days

Alexey Shved G Sidelined Jan 16 ankle Day-to-day

Lazar Hayward F Sidelined Jan 16 illness Day-to-day

Kevin Love F/C Sidelined Jan 3 hand Out 8-10 weeks

Malcolm Lee G Sidelined Dec 12 knee Out for season

Chase Budinger G/F Sidelined Nov 10 knee surgery Targeting
March return

Brandon Roy G/F Sidelined Nov 9 knee Out indefinitely

and as a result, the nba has granted the team an injury exception, allowing them to sign a player to a 10 day contract

https://twitter.com/Twolves_PR/statuses/292342749108260864

Is a trade for a big pretty much a given at this point? Or will the wolves just play out their season and see what the lottery has to offer?

Rubio was also hurt after that thread.

I don't remember a team more destroyed by injuries than this year's T-Wolves. I'm sure there has to have been one sometime, but I don't remember it. Of course Love was a hand but look:

Rubio ACL (yeah last season but still... he missed almost 1/2 this season because of it)
Budinger ACL
Josh Howard knee ended his career
Malcolm Lee knee ended his season

There have been other serious injuries - Pekovic for example, had bone spur surgery and some ankle issues, aside from the Laker kidney punch - but not knee related.

And that's not counting Brandon Roy since his recovery was a hope and a prayer from the get-go.

I had been suspecting their trainer, or maybe some specific exercise they do in practice because that's just crazy... I think all were starters at the time they got hurt

edit ~ I looked back and they were starting D League players and giving them heavy minutes.
Did Kevin Love make D League players better?

[chocolatethunder]

At least for me, it has nothing to do with race.

You say AI had pathetic teammates and coaching carousels, but AI was still a winner, despite all that and made deep playoff runs.

Can Love at least lead a team to a .500 record? Is that too much to ask?
No. The beginning of AIs career everyone said how great he was but his team and caoches sucked and so did his record. Putting up 50pt games while getting blown out was somehow impressive. When he got a good coach and system and players around him he won. Morons who want to buy into the AI did it alone narrative think that the team that went to the finals was shit. It wasn't. It was a really good team built specifically for AI. DPOY SMOY and one of the best coaches ever. The deep playoff runs were done with good teams. Open your eyes.

[tpols]

At least for me, it has nothing to do with race.

You say AI had pathetic teammates and coaching carousels, but AI was still a winner, despite all that and made deep playoff runs.

Can Love at least lead a team to a .500 record? Is that too much to ask?

AI played in a conference where you could make the playoffs with a losing record.. When the eighth seed of last year's West could and probably would beat most of ai sixers teams.. It's probably important to bring up competition level.

[Dr.J4ever]

No. The beginning of AIs career everyone said how great he was but his team and caoches sucked and so did his record. Putting up 50pt games while getting blown out was somehow impressive. When he got a good coach and system and players around him he won. Morons who want to buy into the AI did it alone narrative think that the team that went to the finals was shit. It wasn't. It was a really good team built specifically for AI. DPOY SMOY and one of the best coaches ever. The deep playoff runs were done with good teams. Open your eyes.

I was just taking off from what I thought you were saying about AI's teams. I actually agree with the above.

My point remains though----Can we at least expect to see Love lead a team to a .500 record to even anoint him a top 10 player? Again, is that too much to ask?

Now with the Cavs, he will be a winner but as the 3rd option. Expectatons have to be higher now playing with the best player in the world. I would say performing well and playing a key role in the playoffs and a deep playoff run would be the minimum expectation now for Love

[La Frescobaldi]

I was just taking off from what I thought you were saying about AI's teams. I actually agree with the above.

My point remains though----Can we at least expect to see Love lead a team to a .500 record to even anoint him a top 10 player? Again, is that too much to ask?

Now with the Cavs, he will be a winner but as the 3rd option. Expectatons have to be higher now playing with the best player in the world. I would say performing well and playing a key role in the playoffs and a deep playoff run would be the minimum expectation now for Love

you mean an injury free team............ right?
you can read, so now that you have the evidence you know that continuing to blame him for the T Wolves shambles is disingenuous at best.

[chocolatethunder]

I was just taking off from what I thought you were saying about AI's teams. I actually agree with the above.

My point remains though----Can we at least expect to see Love lead a team to a .500 record to even anoint him a top 10 player? Again, is that too much to ask?

Now with the Cavs, he will be a winner but as the 3rd option. Expectatons have to be higher now playing with the best player in the world. I would say performing well and playing a key role in the playoffs and a deep playoff run would be the minimum expectation now for Love
He plays on a team where he's an afterthought. Irving is brutal and I mean brutal. If you put any decent PG on that team who played defense they would be so much better. Irving is a great scorer but he is just an awful passer and defender. He's terrible. Love gets iced so often it's comical.

[Droid101]

Pretty much what I expected. Retarded Branstans think it's because of injuries to key players (which they had every damn year with Love), and the smart fans/Timberwolf fans who actually watched their games know the injuries occurred every year, this year included.

[The Red Viper]

Kevin Love is a very good offensive player. One of the top ten offensive players in the league and one of the top five power-forwards in the game. With him in that Timberwolves roster, I am sure they would have performed much better but I don't think they would have been in play-offs race like, lets say a Suns or Pelicans or Kings. All those teams have star players who are better overall players than Love in Davis and Boogie or have a very talented bunch of players in Bledsoe, Dragic etc. I do think he has got a rough time by many for his performances with the Cavs this season but that has been down to two thing. One being, since he is below par defensively, you need a good Center alongside him who can protect the paint and bang bodies. Neither TT, nor Andy are ideal players for that. Second being, he has gone from being first option to third option. That kind of transition takes time. Also, both LeBron and Blatt need to make better plays for him and get him involved more. With Andy out, I hope Blatt uses the Kevin Love - LeBron pick and roll more.

[R.I.P.]

Blown out by 6-23 team at home with the best player in the world: -25. :applause: :applause:

Hilarious that he