05 playoffs exposed SNAQ's real impact on the Heat

[Akhenaten]

Game 6 ECF http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200506040DET.html

Heat were up on the Pistons 3-2

Shaq series #'s going in to game 6: 20/6/1 60% 1.2 BPG 2.5 TO

Wade #'s: 30/6/5 46% 1.5 BPG 2.8 TO

I excluded Wade's Gm 5 as he only played 27 minutes due to injury, to be fair I excluded Shaq's worst game (gm 4). Though Wade only played one half of basketball in Gm 5 he still had 15 points, 4 asts and 5 stls.

The Heat were plus 17 in the game at half, Wade was +24 for the GAME, Shaq +5.

Numbers aren't every thing I'm a huge proponent of that adage, however these numbers reflect the SEISMIC gap that existed between Wade and SNAQ in terms of impact on that team.

Even in the categories that SNAQ was supposed to dominate they were dead even or Wade was better. Wade even had more blocks per game than SNAQ and virtually equal TO's .


So Wade get's injured Game 5, sits Gm 6, what happens to the Heat led by their MVP centre? (supposedly robbed by Nash :roll:), they get RAPED by 25 points.



I don't want to hear any further discussion on this...NONE

Wade was better/more IMPACTFUL in the regular season AND playoffs, SNAQ DID NOT DESERVE MVP that season. Wade made the game easier for SNAQ and inflated SNAQ's numbers NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

[mehyaM24]

dont forget that shaq drew all the double teams, was the teams best defender and rebounder. his impact goes well beyond his ppg output.

you remove shaq in 2005, and the heat probably dont even make the playoffs.

[Frozen1]

This double team excuse is bullshit.

[navy]

Only people that didnt watch the Heat think Shaq was the best player. It was pretty obvious in the 05 postseason that Wade was now the man of the team. Had he not gone down we may have be looking at a repeat.

[DJ Leon Smith]

So I guess in 2008 when Kobe gave up a 24 point first-half lead at home in the NBA Finals and lost a NBA Finals deciding game by 39 points, he's a bum forever.

And in 2011, LeBron sux forever because he was outscored by Jason Terry (among others) in the NBA Finals.

And also don't forget this...

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5110/5793653728_ae242ee24a_z.jpg

So according to you, everyone sucks, for all-time. EXCELLENT THREAD.

Thank you mods.

[305Baller]

Shaq was decliining but was very good. Refs didnt allow him to move much. Wade was insanely great. Fast, unselfish and a sublime finisher.

[Akhenaten]

dont forget that shaq drew all the double teams, was the teams best defender and rebounder. his impact goes well beyond his ppg output.

you remove shaq in 2005, and the heat probably dont even make the playoffs.

:lol

ok bud, I'm a Heat fan (a REAL Heat fan), I have lived in Miami for 20 yrs of my life and I can tell you have never watch a regular season or playoff game from 05.

Stop parroting talking points you hear from "experts", Wade drew more doubles and created more shots for SNAQ and his teammates than the other way around.

Also if you know ANYTHING about the Larry Brown Pistons is that they made a point NOT to double SNAQ, Ben Wallace played him STRAIGHT UP.

and because of this SNAQ avg 1 AST in this series...ONE!
you have NO IDEA what you are talking about, I'll wait for one the adults here to set you straight about Detroit DOUBLING SNAQ :rolleyes:

Also if you want an idea of what the 05 Heat looked without SNAQ look no further than the VERY SAME PLAYOFFS in 05.

vs the 5th seeded 05 Wizards with prime Arenas, Hughes and Jamison (again ask the grown-ups here they pretty good) SNAQ missed the last two games of the series.

What did Wade do?

Oh just avg 37/8/5 55% en route to sweeping the Wizards on the road, if only SNAQ were there to draw those double teams he probably would have played better :rolleyes:.

Just to compare, in the two games of the series Shaq played, Wade avg 31/8/11 57% 2stls 2 blks

SNAQ avg 18/7/2 61% 1stl 1 blk :eek: such dominance:eek:

SNAQ's double team drawing ability were responsible for Wade avg 11 APG, and his 2stls and 2 blocks.

Again SON, GTFOH!

[DJ Leon Smith]

You do realize that by calling him "Snaq" you're essentially destroying any argument you try to make before you even make it, right?

Try to be impartial next time and people won't think you're legally retarded after your father punched your mother in the gut while she was pregnant with you.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You do realize that by calling him "Snaq" you're essentially destroying any argument you try to make before you even make it, right?

Try to be impartial next time and people won't think you're legally retarded after your father punched your mother in the gut while she was pregnant with you.

ROFL.. cold blooded as mfcka

[Akhenaten]

You do realize that by calling him "Snaq" you're essentially destroying any argument you try to make before you even make it, right?

Try to be impartial next time and people won't think you're legally retarded after your father punched your mother in the gut while she was pregnant with you.

"DJ Leon Smith

Shutting down your thread with knowledge and intelligence"

So this is what qualifies for knowledge and intelligence huh? :roll:

The SNAQ moniker is just me adding a touch of humour to the mix, if someone is so sensitive as to ignore the very salient and organized argument that I put forth then F em.

If you're not going to debunk my thesis with actual facts and logic then

MOVE AROUND CLOWN

http://24.media.tumblr.com/3bd35297d08f95d4a65524215ea3f82d/tumblr_my8alx0gIq1rbsg35o1_250.gif

[LongLiveTheKing]

D-Wade didn't need Shaq to carry him like Kobe did. Fact.

[GrapeApe]

There's no denying that Shaq's presence elevated the Heat to being title contenders. It's foolish to suggest otherwise and this is coming from a huge Wade fan. However, by the '05 playoffs it was clear who the better player was. I knew when Wade got hurt in the ECF the Heat were in serious trouble. I was not confident at all that Shaq could dominate the way he used to, even for a game or two.

[Myth]

I still believe that Shaq was the real MVP of the 2004-05 "regular season," and it wasn't till the playoffs when Wade truly took over. But it is idiotic to diminish Shaq because of 1 game against the defending NBA champions who had a guy guarding Shaq who had just won his 3rd DPOY title while missing a franchise player.

Also for the record, that Pistons team would have also shredded the Nash led Suns.

[mehyaM24]

Also if you know ANYTHING about the Larry Brown Pistons is that they made a point NOT to double SNAQ, Ben Wallace played him STRAIGHT UP

"Look, Wade does a lot of good things for them," Bucks coach Terry Porter says. "But your focus is going to be on Shaq. I think most teams approach them that way. We're not going to take our eyes off the main thing in that lineup. If you have to opt for who you stop, I think most guys would opt for Shaq."

As Lakers great Magic Johnson says, "The thing he does is he makes every coach scared to death."

So, what's a coach to do? How do you handle a 7-1 behemoth with footwork, an accurate post shot and passing skill? That has been a predicament for opponents throughout O'Neal's 13-year career, one that has taken a different tack with a new team. Double-team him? Triple-team him? Focus on limiting his teammates? Foul him? Throw your hands to the heavens and hope for divine intervention? Well, we went inside the heads of three coaches over a one-week span to investigate their very different approaches to defending O'Neal and the Heat.

Heat at Pistons--
It's a battle between O'Neal and Pistons coach Larry Brown, who has a well-known aversion to double-teams. That makes Brown the coach O'Neal most enjoys playing against.

"Larry Brown is from the old school," O'Neal said before facing the Pistons. "So they usually play me like that, until I get going, and then they come (double-team) later."

O'Neal had it backward. Brown was more willing to send help in the first half. The Pistons double-teamed O'Neal eight times in 32 first half possessions, and it seemed to bother him

i know you're an angry individual, and will likely rage when reading this article. but try to tame yourself. nobody wants to see another poster displeased over basketball #facts

we're pulling for you, boss :cheers:

[GrapeApe]

i know you're an angry individual, and will likely rage when reading this article. but try to tame yourself. nobody wants to see another poster displeased over basketball #facts

we're pulling for you, boss :cheers:

The article simply states what we already knew. Even a declining Shaq was a force to be reckoned with and he had to be accounted for. Like I said, it's foolish to completely downplay his impact, but by the '05 playoffs the Heat were clearly a better team without Shaq than without Wade.

[Akhenaten]

i know you're an angry individual, and will likely rage when reading this article. but try to tame yourself. nobody wants to see another poster displeased over basketball #facts

we're pulling for you, boss :cheers:

Article confirms what I said, Brown wised up in the second half apparently when he realized Ben could take care of him.

We're talking a half of ONE game, watch the 04 Finals, they played him the same way they did in 05 (and Shaw was a better player in 04). I hope you didn't believe that I was saying they NEVER doubled him not one single time?

Shaq had 1 ast that series and Shaq is a great passer out the post, that tells you all you need to know about the frequency and intensity with which they doubled him in that series.

[mehyaM24]

Article confirms what I said, Brown wised up in the second half apparently when he realized Ben could take care of him.

We're talking a half of ONE game, watch the 04 Finals, they played him the same way they did in 05 (and Shaw was a better player in 04). I hope you didn't believe that I was saying they NEVER doubled him not one single time?

Shaq had 1 ast that series and Shaq is a great passer out the post, that tells you all you need to know about the frequency and intensity with which they doubled him in that series.

the article never stated anything about playing iso in the second half.

we all know you didn't read it. why u frontin, brah? :oldlol:

i have the 2006 finals on tape, and avery johnson was sending double teams on shaq for the first 4 games of that series, until he realized wade was beating them (easy looks), but by then, it was already over. the heat gained momentum and never looked back.

#FACTS

[HiphopRelated]

dont forget that shaq drew all the double teams, was the teams best defender and rebounder. his impact goes well beyond his ppg output.

you remove shaq in 2005, and the heat probably dont even make the playoffs.
They swept the Wizards with Shaq in a suit

[Cali Syndicate]

So, you're saying that the Heat offesnive production significantly dropped in the game their most dynamic and productive offensive player wasn't playing? That's very insightful.

Look at Heat roster, who exactly on that team is even remotely capable of stepping up to fill that void? Outside of shaq and Wade, they're all role players. Against a disciplined defensive team like the Pistons, you need a player that can shift a defense and knock them off balance. It's gonna take more than a simple pass out a double team and a swing pass here and there to shift the Pistons defense for these role players to see open opportunities. Unless that swing pass is to a player like Wade who has the ability to continue attacking and breaking the balance of the defense, most the shots are going to be heavily contested.

[Akhenaten]

It's gonna take more than a simple pass out a double team and a swing pass here and there to shift the Pistons defense for these role players to see open opportunities.


Not according to Mehya24 Shaq's post dominance and double team drawing ability was responsible for Wade and his teammates getting "easy looks".

Without 05 Shaq, Wade is reduced to BJ Armstrong level :oldlol: .

[Akhenaten]

They swept the Wizards with Shaq in a suit

Mehya don't care about reality, his feelings and theories are what really matters :facepalm

[Eric Cartman]

Gotta agree with the OP here. Well said.

[AirFederer]

OP speaks the truth :cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

OP you probably thought real hard about pressing that "Submit Reply" button. Should have thought even harder and not do it.

[mehyaM24]

OP you probably thought real hard about pressing that "Submit Reply" button. Should have thought even harder and not do it.
he had no rebuttal lol

verbatim of nba head coaches in 2005, shaq's impact on the heat = astronomical

[PJR]

i have the 2006 finals on tape, and avery johnson was sending double teams on shaq for the first 4 games of that series, until he realized wade was beating them (easy looks), but by then, it was already over. the heat gained momentum and never looked back.

#FACTS

Here are the #facts,

In the 2006 Finals, Shaq averaged 13.7 points a game, and was outscored by Antoine Walker. He was also benched by Riley in the deciding game 6, down the stretch for Zo (who had a far bigger impact on the game).

Shaq sucked in the Finals. And had it not been for D.Wade's domination, they would've been swept. The end.

[mehyaM24]

Here are the #facts,

In the 2006 Finals, Shaq averaged 13.7 points a game, and was outscored by Antoine Walker. He was also benched by Riley in the deciding game 6, down the stretch for Zo (who had a far bigger impact on the game).

Shaq sucked in the Finals. And had it not been for D.Wade's domination, they would've been swept. The end.

again,shaq's impact went beyond his points.

shaq was top 2-3 in every major statistical category per 48 minutes (#1 in TRB%, #1 in EFG%, #2 in BLK%).

for further persepctive, read more from dallas' headcoach and wade himself


Everything starts with dealing with Shaquille," Dallas coach Avery Johnson says.

O'Neal has not only played smartly and efficiently but at times has been as dominant as ever. Despite double-teams, sometimes when he doesn't have the ball, he is averaging 14.6 points, 9.8 rebounds and 3.2 assists and shooting 66.7%.

"Everyone knows that he's 34 years old and he's not the young Shaq-be-nimble, Shaq-be-quick, but we know we wouldn't be at this point without him,"Wade says. "He's the biggest part of what we have here in Miami."

casual fans like yourself need to quit posting and just listen. let the REAL knowledgeable posters like myself educate you. :rockon:

[SouBeachTalents]

again,shaq's impact went beyond his points.

shaq was top 2-3 in every major statistical category per 48 minutes (#1 in TRB%, #1 in EFG%, #2 in BLK%).

for further persepctive, read more from dallas' headcoach and wade himself



casual fans like yourself need to quit posting and just listen. let the REAL knowledgeable posters like myself educate you. :rockon:

So you truly believe Shaq was more valuable in the '06 Finals than Wade?

[mehyaM24]

So you truly believe Shaq was more valuable in the '06 Finals than Wade?
for all of the finals? about equal. wade got a lot of his numbers because of shaq - and casual fans fail to grasp this.

[PJR]

again,shaq's impact went beyond his points.

That's nice. And while that is true, You don't get credit for being "The guy", being an ineffective decoy.


And no one is saying Shaq wasn't an integral piece. But the Heat won the 2006 Title off primarily Dwyane Wade's dominance. 33 year old Shaq was sidekick status.

#Facts

[mehyaM24]

That's nice. And while that is true, You don't get credit for being "The guy", being an ineffective decoy.


And no one is saying Shaq wasn't an integral piece. But the Heat won the 2006 Title off primarily Dwyane Wade's dominance. 33 year old Shaq was sidekick status.

#Facts

wade disagrees with you, brah.

[PJR]

wade disagrees with you, brah.

Men Lie. Women lie. Numbers don't.

Wade was better than Shaq every round of the the 2006 Post-season. Every round.


For you to constantly try to revise history is funny, though. And we see your agenda Bron Stan. Trying to belittle Wade's accomplishments....Keep trying. Just know, the only reason Bran has any rings, is because he came to Wade County :yaohappy:

[ArbitraryWater]

Men Lie. Women lie. Numbers don't.

Wade was better than Shaq every round of the the 2006 Post-season. Every round.


For you to constantly try to revise history is funny, though. And we see your agenda Bron Stan. Trying to belittle Wade's accomplishments....Keep trying. Just know, the only reason Bran has any rings, is because he came to Wade County :yaohappy:

That's not it... Dude's always been a huge Shaq/LeBron fan, his 2 favs...

And never been very high on Wade. Just his opinion.

[SouBeachTalents]

That's not it... Dude's always been a huge Shaq/LeBron fan, his 2 favs...

And never been very high on Wade. Just his opinion.

Lol, well when you're a LeBron/Shaq fan (or stan), I guess it's not very surprising he wouldn't be high on Wade

[mehyaM24]

Men Lie. Women lie. Numbers don't.

Wade was better than Shaq every round of the the 2006 Post-season. Every round.


For you to constantly try to revise history is funny, though. And we see your agenda Bron Stan. Trying to belittle Wade's accomplishments....Keep trying. Just know, the only reason Bran has any rings, is because he came to Wade County :yaohappy:

LOL at generic garbage. players and head coaches opinion >>>> stats helped accumulated by the MDE

if you really want to know what wade's peers think of him, look no further than the latest open court episode. most of the panel didn't even want him in the next 10 - and that list is compromised of 2k players. :roll:

[PJR]

LOL at generic garbage. players and head coaches opinion >>>> stats helped accumulated by the MDE


:oldlol: Yeah, you got nothing.

Your attempts at revisionist history get bitch slapped by the numbers.





if you really want to know what wade's peers think of him, look no further than the latest open court episode. most of the panel didn't even want him in the next 10 - and that list is compromised of 2k players.

Last time I checked, Wade made the list. And Reggie Miller, Kenny Smith, and Isiah Thomas all were emphatic with their praise.

Next.

[mehyaM24]

^you're basically saying wade got bitch slapped, then. nice self ether lol.

"He's the biggest part of what we have here in Miami." - Wade

[PJR]

^you're basically saying wade got bitch slapped, then. nice self ether lol.

What are you even talking about retard?

In the 2006 Season Post-season,

Dwyane Wade scored nearly 10 more points than Shaq on better efficiency.

Was the Primary playmaker

Had a significantly better PER.

Had better win shares

Had better offensive win shares

Had better defensive win shares.

Eye test said Dwyane Wade was of greater important and dominance.

And so did this trophy,

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yQMvP8lQFMk/Td9oCuML76I/AAAAAAAAAOo/JqM7IuLlnnI/s1600/imagesCAU4QPG2.jpg


Next.

[PJR]

SHAQVerified account
‏@SHAQ Happy birthday D wade keep leading like u did us in 2006, wouldn't have number four if it wasnt for you. Leave it up there when u shoot


https://twitter.com/SHAQ/status/159817773613187072

[mehyaM24]

What are you even talking about retard?

In the 2006 Season Post-season,

Dwyane Wade scored nearly 10 more points than Shaq on better efficiency.

Was the Primary playmaker

Had a significantly better PER.

Had better win shares

Had better offensive win shares

Had better defensive win shares.

Eye test said Dwyane Wade was of greater important and dominance.

And so did this trophy,

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yQMvP8lQFMk/Td9oCuML76I/AAAAAAAAAOo/JqM7IuLlnnI/s1600/imagesCAU4QPG2.jpg
:biggums:

wade already said shaq was better. alonzo mourning after the finals said kobe was better than wade, and we all know shaq is better than kobe, so there goes any point you thought you had lol.

find an article from a legit media source or players/coaches saying either kobe was better than shaq during the first 3peat, or that wade was better than lebron during their 2 peat. lets see it.

until then, you're just embarrassing yourself.

[mehyaM24]

https://twitter.com/SHAQ/status/159817773613187072

at time, nobody seriously thought that. and in this latest open court episode (your tweet is old), shaq and webber said wade was just "another guy".

[mehyaM24]

wade saying it himself >>> a midget low iq pg

[SouBeachTalents]

wade saying it himself >>> a midget low iq pg

I honestly don't have a dog in this fight, but why do you keep bringing this up. What do you expect Wade to say to the media; "I'm better than Shaq"?

[mehyaM24]

I honestly don't have a dog in this fight, but why do you keep bringing this up. What do you expect Wade to say to the media; "I'm better than Shaq"?
posters who clearly never watched the 2006 finals straight reaching and throwing myths around. as a basketball purist,i hate seeing it.

[PJR]

wade saying it himself >>> a midget low iq pg


"Wade is the best player ever," O'Neal said before the trophy ceremony.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2493667

[PJR]

posters who clearly never watched the 2006 finals straight reaching and throwing myths around. as a basketball purist,i hate seeing it.

The only idiot here throwing myths around here is you clown.

Talking about Wade didn't lead the Heat in 2006. When ALL the objective pieces of information (the NUMBERS) say otherwise.

Shut the f*ck up. :oldlol:

[tpols]

If someone's trolling you you can just ignore them.. anyone saying 2006 shaq is better than 2006 wade is trolling and probably isn't convincing anyone .

[mehyaM24]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2493667

funny, because he didn't even have wade in his top 60 the other night. :oldlol: putting your biases aside: mourning, wade and shaq, when he wasnt playing for the heat, ALL thought differently - and those 3 were BY FAR the most important heat players during their championship run.

lol at shaq though. GOAT comedian

[NBAplayoffs2001]

dont forget that shaq drew all the double teams, was the teams best defender and rebounder. his impact goes well beyond his ppg output.

you remove shaq in 2005, and the heat probably dont even make the playoffs.

yep 2005 shaq actually cared about his team. 2004 shaq for the most part during the regular season didn't really bother getting in shape.

[mehyaM24]

yep 2005 shaq actually cared about his team. 2004 shaq for the most part during the regular season didn't really bother getting in shape.

it's a common myth that shaq was "lazy" in 2004. the lakers, led by shaq, made the finals and had homecourt advantage (only to lose it because of kobe's selfish play). shaq dominated ben wallace to the tune of 26ppg on 60% shooting. he also grabbed ~12 rebounds per and played quality defense throughout.

shaq's work ethic and longevity are massively underrated, if anything.