how many championships do lebron's heat and shaq's lakers win in the 90s?

[mehyaM24]

the 80s had powerhouses e.g. the celtics, lakers and sixers, while the 90s just had the bulls, so what if...

we transplanted shaq's lakers, how many chips do they win in the 90s?
we transplanted lebron's heat, how many chips do they win in the 90s?

imo, the lakers win 3, while the heat win at least 2. thoughts?

[TheReal Kendall]

I think Heat win 1 and the Lakers win maybe 2 or 3

Bulls vs Lakers would be a great matchup

[Beastmode88]

Which team does MJ get? 91-93 or 96-98?

[ImKobe]

If you replace the 90-91 Lakers with 01 Lakers, they win the title.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Between the two? 5 rings. '01 and '02 LA win 2-3 rings for sure, where Bron's Heat best chance at one is w/ the '12 and '13 squads. I assume the Rockets win at least one themselves.

All in all, Bulls win 3-4.

[dubeta]

LeBron would go 6/6 in the 90's

[mehyaM24]

ya, the consensus seems multiple rings. would have been crazy to witness lebron and wade handcheck out on the perimeter.

GOAT defensive backcourt right there.

[3ball]

In 1998, Shaq was in his 6th season and in his prime... and he had already been to the Finals once.

His 1998 Lakers had 4 all-stars - himself, Eddie Jones, Van Exel, and Kobe, to go along with Elden Campbell, Robert Horry, Rick Fox, and Derek Fisher.

This team got swept in embarrassing fashion by the Utah Jazz in WCF, who had also just defeated Popovich's 56-win Duncan/Robinson Spurs in 5 games in the WCSF.

So we saw Shaq in the 90's... 1998 when he was in his prime and his team had the best talent in the league - and he got swept by the Jazz.

[mehyaM24]

shaq, aka mde, was in his peak from 00-02 with a better team, coach, and second option.

peak lebron (greatest all-around player in history) and wade with the ability to handcheck would be murder on the defensive end. you combine that with no zone, lack of double teams, and pure iso. damn. i shutter to think what they could have done.

[Lebron23]

In 1998, Shaq was in his 6th season and in his prime... and he had already been to the Finals once.

His 1998 Lakers had 4 all-stars - himself, Eddie Jones, Van Exel, and Kobe, to go along with Elden Campbell, Robert Horry, Rick Fox, and Derek Fisher.

This team got swept in embarrassing fashion by the Utah Jazz in WCF, who had also just defeated Popovich's 56-win Duncan/Robinson Spurs in 5 games in the WCSF.

So we saw Shaq in the 90's... 1998 when he was in his prime and his team had the best talent in the league - and he got swept by the Jazz.


You posts way to much for a guy who just copy pasted some posts from another forum. Can you please posts or cite the source??

Shaq was in his prime of his career in 1998, but Kobe was still in his Rookie Season. The lakers actually became a much better team after they traded Jones and Van Excel, and hired Jackson as a Coach in the 1999 NBA off Season.

[ImKobe]

shaq, aka mde, was in his peak from 00-02 with a better team, coach, and second option.

peak lebron (greatest all-around player in history) and wade with the ability to handcheck would be murder on the defensive end. you combine that with no zone, lack of double teams, and pure iso. damn. i shutter to think what they could have done.

so much subtle kobe hate and lebron propping in this post :oldlol:

didn't fool me

[mehyaM24]

so much subtle kobe hate and lebron propping in this post :oldlol:

didn't fool me

kobe IS a better player than penny hardaway. how is that a diss? lol

[deja vu]

LeBron would go 6/6 in the 90's
Absolutely, as Jordan's sidekick.

[ImKobe]

kobe IS a better player than penny hardaway. how is that a diss? lol

A lot of players are better than Penny.

You said Shaq's Lakers, like Kobe didn't lead the Playoffs in Winshares in 2001 and had the same WS/48 as the number one option

you dissed him by calling him a "second option", and in the same post you talked about Lebron like a god

[DonDadda59]

Shaq's Lakers weren't as talented Shaq's Magic and that Magic team couldn't beat the Bulls at full strength. The Heat lost to the Mavericks and a team anchored by the Ghost of Tim Duncan in the finals. Took a miracle from Jesus himself to get one off the Spurs. They weren't exactly world beaters. Bulls run them out of the gym.

[DonDadda59]

shaq, aka mde, was in his peak from 00-02 with a better team, coach, and second option.

'95/'96 Penny>'00 Kobe

Penny '95 Finals: 26/5/8 (50% FG)... Result- Lakers are swept by Hakeem's Rockets

Kobe '00 Finals: 15/5/4 (37% FG)... Result- Lakers beat Pacers led by old Reggie



peak lebron (greatest all-around player in history)

Was outscored in a finals series by a midget coming off the bench

[ImKobe]

'95/'96 Penny>'00 Kobe

Penny '95 Finals: 26/5/8 (50% FG)... Result- Lakers are swept by Hakeem's Rockets

Kobe '00 Finals: 15/5/4 (37% FG)... Result- Lakers beat Pacers led by old Reggie




Was outscored in a finals series by a midget coming off the bench

95 Penny was 23 years old, nice of you to compare him to 21 yr old Kobe, especially comparing Finals numbers by number when Kobe's averages are majorly skewed by a 9-minute injury game and playing injured, and using stats against different teams in different systems as some kind of an indicator who the better player was

23 yr old Kobe in the 2002 Finals

27/6/5 on 51/55/81 shooting(62%TS)...Result - Lakers sweep Nets

And I don't know why I even bothered to post those numbers, comparing numbers against different teams while playing in different systems is stupid and it shows nothing really.

[DonDadda59]

95 Penny was 23 years old, nice of you to compare him to 21 yr old Kobe, especially comparing Finals numbers by number when Kobe's averages are majorly skewed by a 9-minute injury game and playing injured, and using stats against different teams in different systems as some kind of an indicator who the better player was

23 yr old Kobe in the 2002 Finals

27/6/5 on 51/55/81 shooting(62%TS)...Result - Lakers sweep Nets

And I don't know why I even bothered to post those numbers, comparing numbers against different teams while playing in different systems is stupid and it shows nothing really.

All I'm hearing is excuses, bruh. '95-'96 Penny was a better player than '00 Bean. Lakers were not as talented as the Magic were and won with Bean putting up 15.6 PPG on 37% FG in the finals. These are facts.

[AnaheimLakers24]

brans dick is to small to hang in the 90s

dude would get laughed out the shower. pathetic dick size and ugly ass wife

[ILLsmak]

Shaq's Lakers weren't as talented Shaq's Magic and that Magic team couldn't beat the Bulls at full strength. The Heat lost to the Mavericks and a team anchored by the Ghost of Tim Duncan in the finals. Took a miracle from Jesus himself to get one off the Spurs. They weren't exactly world beaters. Bulls run them out of the gym.


Yea, but Shaq was much better. Shaq only faced MJ 2x with the Magic, right? And one of them was in their historic season.

Then he was in LA. The Lakers weren't as good, but I think as long as the Lakers had players who could step up and hit shots, there is no way they would get swept like Orlando.

The Lakers had guys who actually had balls. D Scott and Nick Anderson were wet but weak minded.

Shaq was also probably 150% better by then, in terms of his understanding of the game, not his capabilities. He wouldn't let Rodman get in his head. If we're counting all of these teams before they won, it maybe different, but if we put them all together, each having the confidence that they have already won multiple rings, I think that it would be different.

Miami couldn't beat Chicago because their bigs weren't good enough. The Bulls were geared to stop them and would dominate the boards. As I've said before, gimme the 05 and 06 Heat... I think Bron is a great talent, but those teems were deep as ****. Bigs, many shooters, much D.


-Smak

[mehyaM24]

All I'm hearing is excuses, bruh. '95-'96 Penny was a better player than '00 Bean. Lakers were not as talented as the Magic were and won with Bean putting up 15.6 PPG on 37% FG in the finals. These are facts.

who said anything about the 2000 lakers winning? im not saying anything either way, but 00 shaq > any 90s version. that lakers team, statsitically, >> 90s magic team. pjax >> any coaches from the magic.

horry,fisher,fox,grant > scott, anderson and grant (choke artists)

the 01 lakers were better than all those teams though. shaq had the highest PER, drtg, and winshares (per 36) in the playoffs, btw.

[DonDadda59]

Yea, but Shaq was much better.

Only difference between Shaq in 95 and Shaq in '02 is that he was facing Hakeem instead of Todd MacCulloch. Look at his #s during the 3-peat when he faced front courts that had guys who were strong and defensively talented enough to contain him (ie the Spurs) vs teams that didn't (East Teams like the Nets/Pacers). He was fatter, lazier, and less athletic overall if anything when he was on the Lakers.

[ImKobe]

All I'm hearing is excuses, bruh. '95-'96 Penny was a better player than '00 Bean. Lakers were not as talented as the Magic were and won with Bean putting up 15.6 PPG on 37% FG in the finals. These are facts.

http://i.lvme.me/lgyumch.jpg

Kobe won a Game on the road in OT with Shaq fouled out in the 2000 Finals, Magic choked both close games (one on the home floor) in the 95 Finals with Penny being the go-to scorer

And you're still saying 95-96 Penny, the Finals were played in 95. Kobe at 21 yrs old won his team a Finals game, Penny in 95 got swept as the go-to guy in the clutch, failed to deliver in two close games.

Penny won 0 Finals games while putting up better stats, Kobe came back from a serious ankle injury and won the Lakers a much needed game on the road that eventually prevented the series from going 7 games.

Kobe also held Reggie Miller to 1/16 shooting in Game 1 of the Finals while Clyde Drexler shitted all over Penny the entire series.

[mehyaM24]

anyone who thinks shaq in los angeles= the same player he was in orlando, should just quit watching basketball. you're never gonna "get it".

per shaq, phil motivated him and kept him in the gym longer than he ordinarily spend. not only that, but challenged shaq to hone his skills and redefine his footwork. this is all documented.

[DonDadda59]

http://i.lvme.me/lgyumch.jpg

Kobe won a Game on the road in OT with Shaq fouled out in the 2000 Finals, Magic choked both close games (one on the home floor) in the 95 Finals with Penny being the go-to scorer

And you're still saying 95-96 Penny, the Finals were played in 95. Kobe at 21 yrs old won his team a Finals game, Penny in 95 got swept as the go-to guy in the clutch, failed to deliver in two close games.

Penny won 0 Finals games

Let's simplify this since you're trying your absolute hardest to convince me that putting up 16 PPG on 37% FG in the finals is better than 26 on 50% FG as second options :lol

Do you think that Kobe Bryant in 2000 was a better player than Penny Hardaway in 1995? A simple yes or no will do.

[ImKobe]

anyone who thinks shaq in los angeles= the same player he was in orlando, should just quit watching basketball. you're never gonna "get it".

per shaq, phil motivated him and kept him in the gym longer than he ordinarily spend. not only that, but challenged shaq to hone his skills and redefine his footwork. this is all documented.

Phil challenged Shaq to play 48 minutes a game like Wilt did (to motivate Shaq to be as great as Wilt), he kept it up until Shaq got fatigued to prove a point and to get him to work harder, it was the MVP season.

[DonDadda59]

anyone who thinks shaq in los angeles= the same player he was in orlando, should just quit watching basketball. you're never gonna "get it".

per shaq, phil motivated him and kept him in the gym longer than he ordinarily spend. not only that, but challenged shaq to hone his skills and redefine his footwork. this is all documented.

Which is why he was noticeably fatter in LA and Kobe used to get enraged by his lax work ethic right? :lol

You do know that was one of the major reasons for their beef back then? Like I said, look at Shaq's numbers in the playoffs when he wasn't facing the Todd MacCullochs of the world, ie when he went against the Robinson/Duncan front line.

[ImKobe]

Let's simplify this since you're trying your absolute hardest to convince me that putting up 16 PPG on 37% FG in the finals is better than 26 on 50% FG as second options :lol

Do you think that Kobe Bryant in 2000 was a better player than Penny Hardaway in 1995? A simple yes or no will do.

Kobe:

Regular season: 22.5/6.3/4.9/1.6/0.9 on 55%TS, 21.7 PER .202 WS/48

Playoffs: 21,1/4.5/4.4/1.5/1.5 on 52%TS, 19.3 PER

Penny:

Regular season: 20.9/4.4/7.2/1.7/0.3 on 60%TS, 20.8 PER .177 WS/48

Playoffs: 19.6/3.8/7.7/1.9/0.6 on 58%TS, 19.1 PER,

And those are Kobe's Playoff numbers with him playing injured in the Finals.

a 21 yr old Kobe was slightly better in the regular season and even though injured in the Finals, still slightly better in the Playoffs.

Now, want to compare 2001-2013 Kobe to rest of Penny's career?

[SamuraiSWISH]

'91 - '93 Bulls get their rings. 2001 Lakers take 1998 away from Chicago. And ANY version of the Heat come up short within the East v.s. either the early 90's Bulls or late 90's Bulls considering their team is a poor man's version of the '90's Bulls without the compatability and chemistry between their team's best players that MJ / Pippen shared.

[mehyaM24]

Which is why he was noticeably fatter in LA and Kobe used to get enraged by his lax work ethic right? :lol

You do know that was one of the major reasons for their beef back then? Like I said, look at Shaq's numbers in the playoffs when he wasn't facing the Todd MacCullochs of the world, ie when he went against the Robinson/Duncan front line.

nothing you say changes reality dude. both shaq and phil have been documented saying this. shaq's lack of work ethic (e.g. being "in shape") had nothing to do with his infinitely better post moves and footwork.

[eliteballer]

'95/'96 Penny>'00 Kobe

Penny '95 Finals: 26/5/8 (50% FG)... Result- Lakers are swept by Hakeem's Rockets

Kobe '00 Finals: 15/5/4 (37% FG)... Result- Lakers beat Pacers led by old Reggie




Was outscored in a finals series by a midget coming off the bench

Kobe hurt his ankle in the finals, that's why his stats are low:facepalm

[mehyaM24]

'91 - '93 Bulls get their rings. 2001 Lakers take 1998 away from Chicago. And ANY version of the Heat come up short within the East v.s. either the early 90's Bulls or late 90's Bulls considering their team is a poor man's version of the '90's Bulls without the compatability and chemistry between their team's best players that MJ / Pippen shared.

do you think the '11 heat fall short to the 98 bulls? even with wade playing great? what about the 2012 and 2013 teams?

[ImKobe]

'91 - '93 Bulls get their rings. 2001 Lakers take 1998 away from Chicago. And ANY version of the Heat come up short within the East v.s. either the early 90's Bulls or late 90's Bulls considering their team is a poor man's version of the '90's Bulls without the compatability and chemistry between their team's best players that MJ / Pippen shared.

98 Pacers would give the Heat a heck of a series, so would 97 Heat or 97 Knicks.

[ImKobe]

Kobe hurt his ankle in the finals, that's why his stats are low:facepalm


Don't worry. I just gave him a breakdown of Kobe's 2000 season vs Penny's 95 season. Kobe, while playing on an injured ankle, still did more than Penny did for his Finals series.

Kobe WON a Finals game on the road in Overtime. In Indiana (during Miller time) nonetheless. 95 Penny has nothing on a healthy 2000 Kobe.

[SamuraiSWISH]

2000 Kobe is not any better than '95, '96, or '97 Penny Hardaway. Stop the Laker Stan circle jerk.

[Real14]

The cheat will win 0 or have an asterisk in 99 and lakers would win 95, maybe 94.

[DonDadda59]

Kobe:

Regular season: 22.5/6.3/4.9/1.6/0.9 on 55%TS, 21.7 PER .202 WS/48

Playoffs: 21,1/4.5/4.4/1.5/1.5 on 52%TS, 19.3 PER

Penny:

Regular season: 20.9/4.4/7.2/1.7/0.3 on 60%TS, 20.8 PER .177 WS/48

Playoffs: 19.6/3.8/7.7/1.9/0.6 on 58%TS, 19.1 PER,

And those are Kobe's Playoff numbers with him playing injured in the Finals.

a 21 yr old Kobe was slightly better in the regular season and even though injured in the Finals, still slightly better in the Playoffs.

Now, want to compare 2001-2013 Kobe to rest of Penny's career?

Funny that you whined about stats before, yet now you're busting out advanced stats when I asked you for a simple yes or no answer :oldlol:

But You could've saved yourself a lot of trouble since '95 Penny was a superior player to '00 Kobe. The only thing Bean did 'better' was chuck more shots and be less efficient as Shaq's assistant pimp.

[Real14]

2000 Kobe is not any better than '95, '96, or '97 Penny Hardaway. Stop the Laker Stan circle jerk.
:coleman:

[SamuraiSWISH]

:coleman:
2001 and beyond? Easily Kobe. 2000 version? No.

[ImKobe]

2000 Kobe is not any better than '95, '96, or '97 Penny Hardaway. Stop the Laker Stan circle jerk.

Even though I said it myself that comparing stats number by number is stupid in this case, Kobe slightly edges out Penny in both the regular season and the Playoffs. Their production is nearly identical, though 00 Kobe is 3 years younger than 95 Penny.

[DonDadda59]

Kobe hurt his ankle in the finals, that's why his stats are low:facepalm

And?

I wasn't responding to a question about Bean's health. It was a question of supporting casts/competition faced.

If you switched Bean with Penny in '95 and he put up the same exact stats... do you think the Magic win the championship? :biggums:

[Real14]

2001 and beyond? Easily Kobe. 2000 version? No.
2000 kobe was a problem too.

[ImKobe]

Funny that you whined about stats before, yet now you're busting out advanced stats when I asked you for a simple yes or no answer :oldlol:

But You could've saved yourself a lot of trouble since '95 Penny was a superior player to '00 Kobe. The only thing Bean did 'better' was chuck more shots and be less efficient as Shaq's assistant pimp.

I used your own methods against you. Kobe has the better overall numbers and those are not irrefutable.

The only argument you have is that he was a superior player. I guess I should just take your word for it.

Kobe played his "sidekick" role to perfection. He showed up when they needed him the most.

Game-winner against the Suns, b2b 30+ pt games against the Kings, 2000 WCF, Game-saving block on Sabonis, Game 7 leads the team in 4 different categories (points, rebounds, assists, blocks) to help the Lakers advance the Finals, 4th quarter comeback, the crossover on Pippen and the alley to Shaq to seal the series

Game 4 of the Finals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSdhzK-ud3U

**** outta here. Kobe edges penny in production (which you SO seemed to care about before I showed you the regular season AND Playoff numbers) AND he won a Finals game by being the perfect "Sidekick" and closing out the game in crunch time.

What did Penny do in 95 that was so special? Kobe played an important role in winning an NBA championship, which is worth more than Penny's whole career.

I'm done.

[ImKobe]

And?

I wasn't responding to a question about Bean's health. It was a question of supporting casts/competition faced.

If you switched Bean with Penny in '95 and he put up the same exact stats... do you think the Magic win the championship? :biggums:

No, but they don't get swept. Kobe would actually play defense on Clyde and show up in crunch time. All Kobe would need to do is help Magic win one Finals game to have a bigger impact than Penny did. You don't think he would do that?

This is Kobe coming back from a sprained ankle, in crunch time babe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSdhzK-ud3U#t=181


I remember Kenny "The Jet" Smith pump-faking Penny in crunch time and hitting a wide open jumper at the end of the 4th to get the game to OT, where they lost by 2 points...

Penny doesn't bite on the fake and Kenny most likely misses, Magic win a Finals game.

[miles berg]

Lakers have a shot to win in the two years Jordan was retired.

Heat have zero shot.

[DonDadda59]

I used your own methods against you. Kobe has the better overall numbers and those are not irrefutable.


How? :oldlol:

Kobe has slighlty more points despite taking more shots and shooting less efficiently. Penny blows him away in assists because he was a far better passer and play maker than Bean ever was or could be. Neither guy was particularly good at rebounding, especially in the playoffs but Bean has the edge there in the RS. Having seen them both play, I think Penny was clearly the superior player and the Magic in general were more talented than the Lakers.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

How? :oldlol:

Kobe has slighlty more points despite taking more shots and shooting less efficiently. Penny blows him away in assists because he was a far better passer and play maker than Bean ever was or could be. Neither guy was particularly good at rebounding, especially in the playoffs but Bean has the edge there in the RS. Having seen them both play, I think Penny was clearly the superior player and the Magic in general were more talented than the Lakers.

You'd honestly take the '95 Magic in a series over the 2000 Lakers? Even with arguably the GOAT peak player and GOAT coach?

C'mon, Don. :coleman:

[ImKobe]

How? :oldlol:

Kobe has slighlty more points despite taking more shots and shooting less efficiently. Penny blows him away in assists because he was a far better passer and play maker than Bean ever was or could be. Neither guy was particularly good at rebounding, especially in the playoffs but Bean has the edge there in the RS. Having seen them both play, I think Penny was clearly the superior player and the Magic in general were more talented than the Lakers.

Kobe was a much better defender than Penny, it's convenient how you leave that out.

The Magic were more talented? How come they couldn't win a single game in the Finals with HCA? :roll: :roll: You think 95 Shaq is better than 2000 Shaq? :oldlol:

I'm done here folks. This guy is obviously a huge Penny homer that fails to realize that Kobe in 2000 was a more valuable player than Penny is 1995. He refuses to acknowledge the stats (which he thought was very important to point out when he started this argument) and he refuses to acknowledge (COMPLETELY IGNORES) the fact that while Kobe played injured and had worse overall numbers in the Finals, HE ACTUALLY WON HIS TEAM A FINALS GAME WITH SHAQ FOULED OUT. Kobe played an important part in winning a championship ring while averaging better all-around numbers than Penny.


And there's no point for me to add anything onto this discussion here because I've said everything there is left to say. Kobe put up much better all-around numbers in the regular season and he was still slightly better in the Playoffs despite the aformentioned ankle injury and despite the fact that Penny put up the numbers he did in the Finals. Kobe in the 2000 Playoff run has his Game-winner against Phoenix, him going off for 30+ points in 2 consecutive games against the Kings, game-saving block on Sabonis, leading the team to a Game 7 WCF victory and winning Game 4 of the Finals in OT, followed by winning the championship.


What does Penny have to show? Nothing. Kobe's 2000 Playoff run alone > Penny's NBA career. And I have nothing against the dude and I loved watching him play when he was still great, but these guys are ridiculous trying to downplay Kobe's efforts, like he did not do the things I mentioned, like he did not average better overall numbers.

I'm sure your reply (if you dare to reply) will be something like "Penny was a better passer blah blah blah :rant and put up better overall numbers in the Playoffs, I will disregard Kobe being the better defender and winning a crucial Finals game for his team, Penny was a much better second option because he put up better numbers in a sweep while Kobe helped the Lakers win a championship ring en route to a 3-peat".



Thanks for playing.

[DonDadda59]

You'd honestly take the '95 Magic in a series over the 2000 Lakers? Even with arguably the GOAT peak player and GOAT coach?

C'mon, Don. :coleman:

So called Peak Shaq is not doing to young, prime Shaq what he did to the Flying Dutchman :lol

They would almost cancel each other out and probably both get like 27/13 (55% FG).

But once you go down the line after that, you have Penny vs hobbled Bean, Prime Horace Grant vs 36 year old AC Green. Anderson, Scott vs Fox, Fisher.

Lakers were the better defensive squad (#1 DRTG, #6 OPP/Gm) but offensively the Magic were just as dominant (#1 PPG, #1 ORTG).

[DonDadda59]

The Magic were more talented? How come they couldn't win a single game in the Finals with HCA? :roll:

Because they were playing Hakeem/Drexler's Rockets, not Rik Smits' Pacers. The same Pacers core, mind you, that the Magic beat in their primes 5 years earlier :lol


:roll: You think 95 Shaq is better than 2000 Shaq? :oldlol:


I never said that. I think people exaggerate Shaq's work against Todd MacCulloch and think that's the same thing as playing Olajuwon in the finals. Like I said, look at 3-peat Shaq's production vs Robinson/Duncan in the playoffs. What happened to the MDE then? :confusedshrug:

[poido123]

the 80s had powerhouses e.g. the celtics, lakers and sixers, while the 90s just had the bulls, so what if...

we transplanted shaq's lakers, how many chips do they win in the 90s?
we transplanted lebron's heat, how many chips do they win in the 90s?

imo, the lakers win 3, while the heat win at least 2. thoughts?


I see that Lakers team as superior one to any Wade/Lebron year.

Which means, the only titles the Bulls team would lose is to Kobe/Shaq.

Lebron/Wade with the Heat was a pretty weak conference/era of basketball. Last years spurs were pretty good, but I think that Lakers team and Bulls team would clean them up in 6 max.

[tpols]

Why are the 2000 lakers even being discussed? That wasnt close to their best year. The 2001 Lakers could beat any version of any team from the 90s.. 01 Kobe was 10x the player penny hardaway ever was, and mature veteran shaq isnt taking shit from anyone.