For BASKETBALL purists, carries are as cringeworthy in the NBA as flopping:

[CavaliersFTW]

Please count, how many damn times does Derrick Rose carry the basketball on this one crucial posession, seriously how many ****ing times!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2vbaFIqmas&feature=youtu.be&t=36s

:biggums:

His High School refs followed the rules of ball handling better than NBA refs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yra3H06gX4w#t=198s

After learning the history of the game and how the game is reffed in other leagues, from high school to rec to International this is becoming a major gripe IMO about the NBA. Casual fans may not give a shit or may even be entertained by it but for a purist it is blatantly against the rules to carry the ball but NBA players do it all the time. It makes them look goofy and unskilled IMO as it quite clearly requires MORE SKILL to dribble with your hands in a disciplined manner on top of the ball than it would if you can scoop and hesitate every damn time you want to change direction.

And I'm also getting sick of seeing big uncoordinated players become "ball handlers" like Durant and Giannis. IMO the only reason they even "handle" the ball in the first place is because carrying isn't called on their clumsy drives. Seriously anybody ever watched those two guys who understand what carrying is? They get away with straight horrific ball handling. For Durant to crossover he practically picks the ball up from the bottom and sweeps the damn thing accross his chest.

[Lebronxrings]

kevin durant carries 90% of the time.

[SouBeachTalents]

Nothing is as cringeworthy as this

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/boshflop.gif

[Lebronxrings]

Nothing is as cringeworthy as this

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/boshflop.gif
wow thats sad :facepalm

[nathanjizzle]

if you think those are carries, than you are a garbage baller. just because you havent mastered or atleast grasped the concept of dribbling doesnt mean someone that has is carrying or traveling. its your own ignorance.

"basketball purists" lol masterful play with the ball and perfect rythmic dribbling isnt pure basketball i guess to those less intuitive.

[nathanjizzle]

this is the concept of basketball "purists" players that had no rhythm or did not push the boundaries of maneuverability. all mediocre textbook players.
http://www.historicdisasters.com/blog/ia-olds-hs-bbteam1923r400.jpg

[Jailblazers7]

Traveling is much worse. I don't see anything wrong in the Rose clip.

[Pointguard]

If that's cringeworthy then you haven't been watching basketball since Earl Monroe joined the league. They're abuses every game far worse than that. And that's totally within the comfort level of how the game is called - and he doesn't use it to gain advantage or for lack of control. Rose dribbled twice in what would be a palming violation - that's not really a carry violation. To purist, Russell carries twice in this play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWelUNrJUMM Now that's a carry and he did it twice because he has trouble dribbling.

Flopping is insulting to intelligence, its the cheapest way to get a possession and clownish. Not seeing the two on the same level at all.

[CavaliersFTW]

If that's cringeworthy then you haven't been watching basketball since Earl Monroe joined the league. They're abuses every game far worse than that. And that's totally within the comfort level of how the game is called - and he doesn't use it to gain advantage or for lack of control. Rose dribbled twice in what would be a palming violation - that's not really a carry violation. To purist, Russell carries twice in this play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWelUNrJUMM Now that's a carry and he did it twice because he has trouble dribbling.

Flopping is insulting to intelligence, its the cheapest way to get a possession and clownish. Not seeing the two on the same level at all.
It's cringeworthy because I understand the rules of ball handling, how it used to be called, and how they're calling (or rather not calling) violations today. No, Russell does not carry once on the play, not even a little bit, he's dribbling palms straight up and down the entire time and puts zero hesitation on the ball... Derrick Rose carries/palms about 16 times in the clip I posted in the OP. Various ball hesitations mid-dribble while touching the ball all over the place. Heck he even starts out his dribble flipping his hand completely upside down onto the underside of the basketball. This is like stuff you should be taught not to do in elementary school. Unless of course you grew up watching Allen Iverson, than you'd be forgiven for thinking it was OK. But it's against the rules, the NBA should still enforce it IMO.

[swagga]

we talking bout carries now? :lol

[Pointguard]

It's cringeworthy because I understand the rules of ball handling, how it used to be called, and how they're calling (or rather not calling) violations today. No, Russell does not carry once on the play, not even a little bit, he's dribbling palms straight up and down the entire time and puts zero hesitation on the ball... Derrick Rose carries/palms about 16 times in the clip I posted in the OP. Various ball hesitations mid-dribble while touching the ball all over the place. Heck he even starts out his dribble flipping his hand completely upside down onto the underside of the basketball. This is like stuff you should be taught not to do in elementary school. Unless of course you grew up watching Allen Iverson, than you'd be forgiven for thinking it was OK. But it's against the rules, the NBA should still enforce it IMO.
That's the whole thing - who is the purist? Russell dribbles twice above his stomach, he's very near face level, and you couldn't see it at all. This is with you looking for it.

Rose is a very economical and efficient dribbler when he isn't stalling for time. He's not going to get called for it. He's well in the comfort zone of most ball handlers in that video.

[jongib369]

http://oi62.tinypic.com/rucewp.jpg (http://youtu.be/exEJLqGPQ6I)

OP just wants to be pure

[Rake2204]

This is like stuff you should be taught not to do in elementary school. Unless of course you grew up watching Allen Iverson, than you'd be forgiven for thinking it was OK. But it's against the rules, the NBA should still enforce it IMO.I mean this respectfully and mostly separate from the topic at hand but if I may ask, what kind of basketball playing background do you have? College player? High school? Rec league? Goofing around with friends? Lifelong participator but nothing organized? I meant to ask this in your Euro-step thread but it slipped my mind.

[Mass Debator]

Have you ever tried dribbling while trying to palm the ball? This is hardly anything to talk about. Maybe palming while crossing could be a huge advantage, but it's not worthy of a discussion for what Rose did. It wasn't even obvious in real time and still not even obvious while trying to look for it. If it was, I bet you every player would be shouting carry.

[Stringer Bell]

Nothing is as cringeworthy as this

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/boshflop.gif

:oldlol:

I agree that the NBA does allow too much carrying and travelling. Although it has made for some amazing highlight reels.

Actually, so has flopping, it's pretty funny at times,

[Dragic4Life]

Durant does it every possession.

[WillC]

Carrying is indeed a big problem.

However, everyone (today) plays by the same rules, so it's not a major problem for me. It doesn't ruin my enjoyment of watching the game. It only becomes a problem when youngsters watch tape of legends like Oscar Robertson, Jerry West and Bob Cousy and mock their ball handling. Obviously they were playing within the rules of the time. Today, they'd carry the ball as much as anyone else, if given the opportunity.

One of my few gripes about the game of basketball today is the way that 'fans' celebrate individual plays, e.g. a dunk worth two points or a crossover worth zero points.

I saw some people going mad about a facial dunk once... even though the defender received the inbound ball, dribbled the length of the court and scored a 3.

In other words, fans were mocking the guy who scored more than his opponent. Ridiculous.

I much prefer team basketball. Which is why the Spurs are such a joy to watch.

[Oly BC]

but for a purist it is blatantly against the rules to carry the ball but NBA players do it all the time. It makes them look goofy and unskilled
They are.

The funniest thing was the gif showing Wade changing his pivot foot four of five times while looking for a pass.

[kennethgriffin]

the 3 step dwyane wade spin move and the ginobili eruo double jump step are the biggest travels of all time.

i have way more of a problem with that than carries

[Kvnzhangyay]

While I do agree carrying is a problem, rules have changed (Not "officially" via the rulebook but most definitely verbal changes among referees and probably how the NBA instructs referees) and these new rules for carrying certainly does create more flashy moves for the casual fan, which is what the NBA aims to attract the most

[Nastradamus]

Nothing is as cringeworthy as this

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/boshflop.gif

slow mo always looks like a delayed reaction. This is the stupidest gif ever. Its not even a real flop. If you actually watch the elbow catches him hard across the bridge of the nose.

[Nastradamus]

No carries in that video. Not even close. I'm sure some guys do it, but that was a terrible example OP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_(basketball)

[dreamwarrior]

That's not even as bad as Iverson used to do, but Iverson was the only guy who carried.

[edrick]

If carries and traveling were called, Durant and LeBron would each average 10 turnovers a game.

[Rake2204]

However, everyone (today) plays by the same rules, so it's not a major problem for me. It doesn't ruin my enjoyment of watching the game. It only becomes a problem when youngsters watch tape of legends like Oscar Robertson, Jerry West and Bob Cousy and mock their ball handling. Obviously they were playing within the rules of the time. Today, they'd carry the ball as much as anyone else, if given the opportunity.I am in agreement.


One of my few gripes about the game of basketball today is the way that 'fans' celebrate individual plays, e.g. a dunk worth two points or a crossover worth zero points.

I saw some people going mad about a facial dunk once... even though the defender received the inbound ball, dribbled the length of the court and scored a 3.

In other words, fans were mocking the guy who scored more than his opponent. Ridiculous.

I much prefer team basketball. Which is why the Spurs are such a joy to watch.I tend to see the delight from both sides. I feel if I were to break watching or playing basketball into a zero-sum exercise (only about getting the most points, regardless of the fashion with which they're scored) I would derive much less enjoyment from the game itself.

I admit I have seen a friend of mine get his foot stomped on during a crossover, leading him to fall down - at which point a group of folks flipped out - and I found that somewhat laughable. Otherwise, I enjoy the spectacular plays and particularly in pickup games, I can understand the excitement derived, even if someone were to hit a three poniter at the other end. I suppose I am someone who believes it's about who wins and loses, but also about how one plays the game. Sometimes it's this:

http://nbatitlechase.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/spurs-ball-movement-perfection1.gif

Sometimes it's this:

http://karmajello.com/postcont/2012/09/shawn-kemp-top-career-dunks-taunt.gif

[WillC]

Rake2204, I don't disagree with you; I also enjoy a good old ferocious or acrobatic dunk as much as the next person. I could watch Shawn Kemp dunking on Chris Gatling all day long...

...But that's partly because of the incredible act of sportsmanship that immediately followed the dunk, making it twice as memorable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpdlstqS6Do

I don't expect that after every dunk (although once in a blue moon would be nice). Instead, just finish the play and head back down the court to defend.

And I don't need 14-year-old kids banging on about it for weeks afterwards, mocking the defender.

Good example: Andre Drummond over Brandon Knight. That was a tremendous dunk. We can all appreciate that kind of play. But do I think badly of Knight? Do I think he was 'owned' and made to look stupid? Not at all. I admire him for trying to play some defense, which is perhaps more than most players would have done in that situation.

Better example: Joe Johnson's crossover on Paul Pierce, making him fall down. Are we supposed to celebrate someone falling down? Isn't that kind of sad? Aren't we above that as a species? Sure, it was a great crossover and I enjoyed watching it, but I don't celebrate someone getting embarrassed.

Maybe that's just me. Applaud the 'winner'. No need to mock the 'loser'.

I think it's a generational thing. People who grow up watching 10 second highlights on YouTube tend not to have the patience and intelligence to appreciate the bigger picture, i.e. the intricate team player. Or, more importantly, the final score.

[Beastmode88]

wow thats sad :facepalm

I'm sure Bron flops more than Bosh. Here's some proof: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302139 :lol

[Rake2204]

Rake2204, I don't disagree with you; I also enjoy a good old ferocious or acrobatic dunk as much as the next person. I could watch Shawn Kemp dunking on Chris Gatling all day long...

...But that's partly because of the incredible act of sportsmanship that immediately followed the dunk, making it twice as memorable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpdlstqS6Do

I don't expect that after every dunk (although once in a blue moon would be nice). Instead, just finish the play and head back down the court to defend.

And I don't need 14-year-old kids banging on about it for weeks afterwards, mocking the defender.

Good example: Andre Drummond over Brandon Knight. That was a tremendous dunk. We can all appreciate that kind of play. But do I think badly of Knight? Do I think he was 'owned' and made to look stupid? Not at all. I admire him for trying to play some defense, which is perhaps more than most players would have done in that situation.

Better example: Joe Johnson's crossover on Paul Pierce, making him fall down. Are we supposed to celebrate someone falling down? Isn't that kind of sad? Aren't we above that as a species? Sure, it was a great crossover and I enjoyed watching it, but I don't celebrate someone getting embarrassed.

Maybe that's just me. Applaud the 'winner'. No need to mock the 'loser'.

I think it's a generational thing. People who grow up watching 10 second highlights on YouTube tend not to have the patience and intelligence to appreciate the bigger picture, i.e. the intricate team player. Or, more importantly, the final score.Well stated. I think I'm with you. I am fascinated with seeing defenders getting their footing so twisted that they lose balance, as it likely means someone has executed a wonderful string of sudden offensive movements on the other side. But I agree, I don't tend to vilify or humiliate that person.

In fact, I tend to respect those who get broken down, as I came to the realization many years ago that those most likely to get crossed up in that manner are those actually giving full effort defensively (it's actually a little tough to "break ankles" of someone not even really trying that hard). Same goes for poster dunks. It doesn't make the dunks or crosses any less spectacular to me, but I tend to respect the efforts of the defense in those situations.

[Euroleague]

This is rich, coming from a guy that claims Team USA never carries the ball....

[JellyBean]

Carries are annoying. But nothing tops flopping. That is cringe worthy.

[ILLsmak]

Please count, how many damn times does Derrick Rose carry the basketball on this one crucial posession, seriously how many ****ing times!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2vbaFIqmas&feature=youtu.be&t=36s

:biggums:

His High School refs followed the rules of ball handling better than NBA refs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yra3H06gX4w#t=198s

After learning the history of the game and how the game is reffed in other leagues, from high school to rec to International this is becoming a major gripe IMO about the NBA. Casual fans may not give a shit or may even be entertained by it but for a purist it is blatantly against the rules to carry the ball but NBA players do it all the time. It makes them look goofy and unskilled IMO as it quite clearly requires MORE SKILL to dribble with your hands in a disciplined manner on top of the ball than it would if you can scoop and hesitate every damn time you want to change direction.

And I'm also getting sick of seeing big uncoordinated players become "ball handlers" like Durant and Giannis. IMO the only reason they even "handle" the ball in the first place is because carrying isn't called on their clumsy drives. Seriously anybody ever watched those two guys who understand what carrying is? They get away with straight horrific ball handling. For Durant to crossover he practically picks the ball up from the bottom and sweeps the damn thing accross his chest.

Nah flopping is some other shit. Falling on the ground and pretending to be fouled is the wackest shit. Carries are what they are. I never had handles cuz I never carried. Seen everyone carry. Can't even really do a crossover without carrying.

-Smak

[Meticode]

I saw nothing wrong with the clip. He might've carried one time, but it wasn't obviously enough to blow a whistle. Flopping will always take the cake for me because you're putting something out there that isn't true.

[LoneyROY7]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Take a hot tub machine back to the 60's, bruh.

You're half a century behind the times.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Nothing is as cringeworthy as this

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/boshflop.gif
Agreed. Nothing as cringeworthy to basketball purists as guys shuffling their pivot feet :mad:

[kennethgriffin]

Agreed. Nothing as cringeworthy to basketball purists as guys shuffling their pivot feet :mad:


at no point in that gif did boozer shuffle his feel

:roll:

[moe94]

at no point in that gif did boozer shuffle his feel

:roll:
'
He clearly did

[Rolando]

After seeing the clip in the OP, I think carrying makes the game better. It allows the offensive player to disrupt the timing of his dribble and, aesthetically, makes the game more interesting.

That should be called "palming" instead of carrying.

Like other posters, I think flopping is way, way more offensive.

[CelticBaller]

Agreed. Nothing as cringeworthy to basketball purists as guys shuffling their pivot feet :mad:
:oldlol:

[oarabbus]

at no point in that gif did boozer shuffle his feel

:roll:


:wtf:

His pivot foot totally shuffles

[DonDadda59]

Eh, I think flopping is much worse personally. If the refs called every travelling and palming/carrying violation per the rule books then the game would be unwatchable. There'd literally be a whistle blown every other play.

But sometimes the things guys get away with is definitely cringe material:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCEbuar7Qas

Stevie Franchise brought the triple jump technique to the NBA long before everyone was on the crab dribble :lol



:facepalm

[Rake2204]

Eh, I think flopping is much worse personally. If the refs called every travelling and palming/carrying violation per the rule books then the game would be unwatchable. There'd literally be a whistle blown every other play.

But sometimes the things guys get away with is definitely cringe material:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCEbuar7Qas

Stevie Franchise brought the triple jump technique to the NBA long before everyone was on the crab dribble :lol



:facepalmHaha, that Francis clip...

Takes a Matrix-like approach of believing the laws of the world to be maleable. Team's down by 12 in the third quarter - one must believe that he will be able to take as many steps as he so desires in order to pull that off. Gutsy. And other things.

[eliteballer]

slow mo always looks like a delayed reaction. This is the stupidest gif ever. Its not even a real flop. If you actually watch the elbow catches him hard across the bridge of the nose.

:roll:

[T_L_P]

wow thats sad :facepalm

http://notsportscenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/LeBronJRSmithFlop.gif

[cuad]

I agree with this.

[Le Shaqtus]

at no point in that gif did boozer shuffle his feel

:roll:

http://i.imgur.com/4091zPk.jpg

[thabisyo]

we talking bout carries now? :lol

we supposed to be the big ISH analysts and we sitting here talking about carries :lol

[MiseryCityTexas]

kevin durant carries 90% of the time.


Damon Stoudamire used to get away with carrying too in his Raptor years until the refs realized that Damon Stoudamire's really not an all star.

[kamil]

Nothing is as cringeworthy as this

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/boshflop.gif

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/14/148983/3729681-4317620796-agyK1.gif

[Swaggin916]

carrying is nowhere near as bad as flopping give me a break.

[stevieming]

Please count, how many damn times does Derrick Rose carry the basketball on this one crucial posession, seriously how many ****ing times!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2vbaFIqmas&feature=youtu.be&t=36s

:biggums:

His High School refs followed the rules of ball handling better than NBA refs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yra3H06gX4w#t=198s

After learning the history of the game and how the game is reffed in other leagues, from high school to rec to International this is becoming a major gripe IMO about the NBA. Casual fans may not give a shit or may even be entertained by it but for a purist it is blatantly against the rules to carry the ball but NBA players do it all the time. It makes them look goofy and unskilled IMO as it quite clearly requires MORE SKILL to dribble with your hands in a disciplined manner on top of the ball than it would if you can scoop and hesitate every damn time you want to change direction.

And I'm also getting sick of seeing big uncoordinated players become "ball handlers" like Durant and Giannis. IMO the only reason they even "handle" the ball in the first place is because carrying isn't called on their clumsy drives. Seriously anybody ever watched those two guys who understand what carrying is? They get away with straight horrific ball handling. For Durant to crossover he practically picks the ball up from the bottom and sweeps the damn thing accross his chest.

that play from Rose is fine...don't understand what your issue is there really...can see your point about KD and Giannis though...

[wakencdukest]

Flopping is way worse. But, the people who laugh at the ball handling in the 70's and 80's, hell even the 60's, are idiots. The rules have changed drastically regarding dribbling over the last twenty five years.