Does acquiring Love give the Cavs the edge of a healthy Bulls?

[poido123]

Lebron with the current team I feel the Bulls have the edge.

With love now? I think it will be really close, even without great defense.

What are your thoughts on the matchups?

Butler will be able to do a good job on Bron, I'm worried that gasol or gibson won't be able to close out on love on his 3s, I feel Irving is going to struggle at times knowing when to impose himself and playing off the ball may not be something he finds easy to do...

Varejao on Noah is a good matchup, very much alike in some ways. Rose will get whatt he wants if there is no interior paint protector. I think waiters could be a real big problem, especially if he, lebron and kyrie are slashing to the hoop In waves...

The shooters are where bulls can hurt the heat. If Irving or waiters get lazy on defense(which they will) guys like rose McDermott and Snell will punish them from the outside.

Then you have mirotic who has a crafty inside/outside game and will stretch guys like love who won't feel comfortable closing out the perimeter. So as much as love will cause problems stretching our bigs, we also have a player who can do that.

I think if we can utilize gasol a lot and get him to use his vision of passing out of the post and exploiting cavs lack of interior defense, we can really hurt the cavs there.

Anyways, that's my rant. What do you guys think on the matchups assuming the teams are as follows;

Bulls

PG rose/brooks/Hinrich
SG Snell/butler/hinrich
SF McDermott/MDJ/butler/mirotic
PF Gasol/Mirotic/Gibson
C Noah/Gasol

Cavs

PG Irving/Dellevadova
SG Waiters/Martin?/Allen?
SF James/Brewer/Miller
PF Love/Thompson
C Varajeo/Haywood

[Inferno]

Eh, Bulls frontcourt would murder that Cavs frontcourt apart from Love

[DMAVS41]

Yes, because Rose has not proven he can perform in the playoffs yet.

Outside of his rookie year, he's been sub 50% TS in the playoffs each year.

That won't be close to good enough.

[TylerOO]

Dont need Love, they got LeKing.


6%

[DukeDelonte13]

Eh, Bulls frontcourt would murder that Cavs frontcourt apart from Love


Noah's not exactly some dominant bigman that can't be contained... He's good, but he's not an offensive juggernaut or a C that causes matchup issues.

Bulls should be the better coached team as Thibs has been around for a while and Blatt is brand new. Not saying Thibs is necessarily the better coach, but the Bulls should be able to execute their sets on a much more consistent basis.

Could be an epic eastern playoff matchup.

[ballinhun8]

Yes, because Rose has not proven he can perform in the playoffs yet.

Outside of his rookie year, he's been sub 50% TS in the playoffs each year.

That won't be close to good enough.

TS?? Come on with that crap.


This isn't pre-2010 where the Cavs were built around Bron. This is a team that was already established with young guys who have never played in the playoffs. And you add in Love who has never played an important game in his career.

Outside of Bron, the Cavs have no valuable playoff experience. Well they have Miller, so if he's playing crunch time mins then it means that Varejao or Waiters is on the bench which either means less athleticism or the barely there rim protection.


Chicago is better suited now to beat a LeBron led team than ever.

[Soundwave]

If Bran really is the player he's hyped to be, they should beat the Bulls without much fuss in this scenario.

He should be head and shoulders above anyone else on the court and the supporting casts beyond that are equal or even weighted in Cleveland's favor.

No excuses.

[inclinerator]

james with any team can beat the bulls

[DukeDelonte13]

TS?? Come on with that crap.


This isn't pre-2010 where the Cavs were built around Bron. This is a team that was already established with young guys who have never played in the playoffs. And you add in Love who has never played an important game in his career.

Outside of Bron, the Cavs have no valuable playoff experience. Well they have Miller, so if he's playing crunch time mins then it means that Varejao or Waiters is on the bench which either means less athleticism or the barely there rim protection.


Chicago is better suited now to beat a LeBron led team than ever.
'
Mike Miller and Varejao have tons of playoff exp.

[Inferno]

james with any team can beat the bulls

:coleman:

[FireMcFailPlease]

james with any team can beat the bulls
That.

[navy]

james with any team can beat the bulls
:lol

[poido123]

If Bran really is the player he's hyped to be, they should beat the Bulls without much fuss in this scenario.

He should be head and shoulders above anyone else on the court and the supporting casts beyond that are equal or even weighted in Cleveland's favor.

No excuses.

That goes for us too. No excuses, rose has significant help of shooters and a proper inside post player to dump the ball into and make plays. In fact, bulls have two elite passing bigmen and the best bench in the league.

If healthy, absolutely no excuses for bulls either.

[poido123]

james with any team can beat the bulls


I cannot wait to remove this myth for good. :lol

6% , rose can't beat a lebron led team, etc etc :facepalm

[navy]

I cannot wait to remove this myth for good. :lol

6% , rose can't beat a lebron led team, etc etc :facepalm
What does 6% mean?

[poido123]

What does 6% mean?


Like Combat Wombat always says... Eat a bag of d.cks :lol

Don't tell me you don't know what that means :hammerhead:

[ArbitraryWater]

What does 6% mean?


Via ESPN Stats & Info: "Derrick Rose shot 6.3 percent from the floor in the series when defended by LeBron James."

The Lowest on ANY Player in his CAREER that defended Rose on 5 or more Plays/Possessions.

[JohnFreeman]

LeBron has always done well against Chicago

[nba_55]

Another thread where people will make pointless speculation. Basketball isn't played on paper. Until you see the Cavs play, you can't say anything. This Cavs team will be completely new. How can anyone say that they will be better or worse than Bulls without having seen them play 1 game?

[Milbuck]

Yes, because Rose has not proven he can perform in the playoffs yet.

Outside of his rookie year, he's been sub 50% TS in the playoffs each year.

That won't be close to good enough.
What has he not proven? That he couldn't drag his team as the singular individual offensive player (at 22 years old) past a team with prime Lebron, prime Wade, and prime Bosh with one of the nastiest perimeter defenses we've seen in a long time concentrating all on him? Out of his last 2 healthy years, so pretty much since his breakout year, he's had 1 mediocre playoff series.

During his MVP season when he emerged as a superstar, he put up 28/5/6/3/1 on 53% TS against the Pacers. Then he torched the Hawks for 30/4/10/1/1 on 53% TS..then came his only bad playoff series against, once again, an elite trapping defense that featured arguably the 2 best all-around perimeter players in the world.

And then obviously we saw what happened in 2012, what happened in the 1 game he played that postseason in which he put up a near 23 point triple double. The year his team was essentially a lock to make the ECF again before he went down.

It's pretty meaningless to use 1 bad playoff series against him..because he's shown that he has the game and the mentality to succeed in the playoffs...he's gotten to the conference finals while playing really damn well to get there, that has to count for something. All he's lacked was offensively capable players that can take pressure off of him. Now he has that. While the Cavs have nowhere near the defense those Miami teams had..

edit: not even including his rookie year when he took a great Boston team to 7 in an epic series putting up 20/6/6/1/1 on 53% TS..as a 20 year old. Or when he put up 27/3/7/1 on 50% TS against Lebron's Cavs in his 2nd season.

[navy]

Via ESPN Stats & Info: "Derrick Rose shot 6.3 percent from the floor in the series when defended by LeBron James."



For a whole series?

:biggums:

[Warfan]

What does 6% mean?

It's what rose shot against lebron in the last 2 games of the 2011 series :lol

[poido123]

Another thread where people will make pointless speculation. Basketball isn't played on paper. Until you see the Cavs play, you can't say anything.


I'm not asking people to do player comparisons, I'm asking for opinions on the matchups and how each team will exploit them...

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Yes it would...

[ArbitraryWater]

For a whole series?

:biggums:

Yea, 2011..

However LeBron defended him mainly during the end of games.. None the less, when LeBron does a good Job on defense, it's suddenly "everyone else, the team System, helping out, and not really LeBron" lol

Oh, here:

Game 4 with LeBron on Rose: Rose went 0-5 with 1 Turnover.
Game 5 with LeBron on Rose: Rose went 1-10 with 2 Turnovers.

[ballinhun8]

Rookie debut record for points (tied with KAJ)


Epic series against the C's where he played great. Even in 2010 against the Cavs he was good. Just not enough offense to beat them.

[poido123]

It's what rose shot against lebron in the last 2 games of the 2011 series :lol


:(

:mad:

:lol

[ballinhun8]

Yea, 2011..

However LeBron defended him mainly during the end of games.. None the less, when LeBron does a good Job on defense, it's suddenly "everyone else, the team System, helping out, and not really LeBron" lol

Oh, here:

Game 4 with LeBron on Rose: Rose went 0-5 with 1 Turnover.
Game 5 with LeBron on Rose: Rose went 1-10 with 2 Turnovers.


6'8 defending 6'3. Just saying.


I've never seen Paul, Deron, Westbrook guarded by opposing teams wingman like Rose was for those playoffs.

[poido123]

Rookie debut record for points (tied with KAJ)


Epic series against the C's where he played great. Even in 2010 against the Cavs he was good. Just not enough offense to beat them.


That was against a very good defender rondo mind you...

He's capable of doing this to anyone.

[Real14]

Bulls are overrated.

[poido123]

6'8 defending 6'3. Just saying.


I've never seen Paul, Deron, Westbrook guarded by opposing teams wingman like Rose was for those playoffs.


Exactly.

If people went back and watched that series, they would know that rose was doing all the creating on offense. Boozer and Noah looked injured.

It wasn't just lebron when lebron guarded him. lebron led rose into team traps very effectively and because bulls didn't have anyone else to punish the trapping style of defense on the perimeter, lebron looked good but it was clearly a team defense which lebron steered him into time and time again forcing bad shots.

[poido123]

Bulls are overrated.


Tell me, what have the Knicks done lately?

[ArbitraryWater]

Doin' everything to not credit 'Bron :lol

Size isn't even an excuse, ever...

6% :lol

[JohnFreeman]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/4226316/lebron-blocks-d-rose-bad-o.gif

[ArbitraryWater]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/2560301/lebron-vs-rose-o.gif

[ArbitraryWater]

http://i.minus.com/ijAeB8c3uybWU.gif

[poido123]

Can you offer some insight instead of posting up troll pics?

How do you think each team can exploit the matchups...

Trolls will be trolls i guess.

[Real14]

Tell me, what have the Knicks done lately?
Took Melo back, which your team couldn't do:lol and 1st round exits that lost to tha damn wizards are all of a sudden contenders?:biggums: come on man:oldlol:

[poido123]

Took Melo back, which your team couldn't do:lol and 1st round exits that lost to tha damn wizards are all of a sudden contenders?:biggums: come on man:oldlol:


Bulls will be sure to save their biggest beat down for the Knicks. Just to make sure Melo knows what he missed out on...

Half of our current team and our best player didn't play against wizards :lol

Would you say the same thing if we played our D-League squad, like seriously?

[Real14]

Bulls will be sure to save their biggest beat down for the Knicks. Just to make sure Melo knows what he missed out on...

Half of our current team and our best player didn't play against wizards :lol

Would you say the same thing if we played our D-League squad, like seriously?
Yea right, bulls ain't gonna bust tha knicks ass man:lol . Excuses, excuses:facepalm How in tha world y'all niguhz get a pass for having injuries but we can't get a pass?:biggums:

[CHi1PriDe]

Yea right, bulls ain't gonna bust tha knicks ass man:lol . Excuses, excuses:facepalm How in tha world y'all niguhz get a pass for having injuries but we can't get a pass?:biggums:

Don't get how you can talk shit about any team when you root for the Knicks. Knicks have been a garbage franchise for half a century now, other than melo and maybe THjr, the Knicks have nobody decent. The bulls were supposed to tank last year and still made the 4th seed while the Knicks couldnt even make the playoffs in a weak ass conference. A lineup of JC, Jr, melo, stat and dalembert ain't scaring no one, how can you even be excited for your team this year?

You guys might be able to squeeze into the playoffs this year because of what happened to Indiana. The bulls added a lot of firepower this off season and TaJ/Noah have gotten a lot better since 2011. Our bench mob can easily beat your starting 5 :oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

No. Chicago is still better. The Cavs best 3 players would>Chicago's best 3 but the Bulls would have far greater depth. Moreover, the Bulls would have continuity in terms of coaching and the team's system along with returning many of the same players. The Cavs have a coach with zero NBA experience and, under this scenario, the Cavs' two best players would be new additions to the team. Rose, Noah, Butler, Gibson are longtime incumbents. Even though Rose has not seen much action, Rose has been part of the culture and system for years and people like Noah have played with him for a while. Irving will have to learn Love and LeBron. Remember, one reason the 11' Heat underachieved is it took them a year to learn to play together optimally.

The Spurs have demonstrated the importance of good coaching, a good system, depth and continuity. Chicago has all these things in spades; Cleveland does not.

[DMAVS41]

What has he not proven? That he couldn't drag his team as the singular individual offensive player (at 22 years old) past a team with prime Lebron, prime Wade, and prime Bosh with one of the nastiest perimeter defenses we've seen in a long time concentrating all on him? Out of his last 2 healthy years, so pretty much since his breakout year, he's had 1 mediocre playoff series.

During his MVP season when he emerged as a superstar, he put up 28/5/6/3/1 on 53% TS against the Pacers. Then he torched the Hawks for 30/4/10/1/1 on 53% TS..then came his only bad playoff series against, once again, an elite trapping defense that featured arguably the 2 best all-around perimeter players in the world.

And then obviously we saw what happened in 2012, what happened in the 1 game he played that postseason in which he put up a near 23 point triple double. The year his team was essentially a lock to make the ECF again before he went down.

It's pretty meaningless to use 1 bad playoff series against him..because he's shown that he has the game and the mentality to succeed in the playoffs...he's gotten to the conference finals while playing really damn well to get there, that has to count for something. All he's lacked was offensively capable players that can take pressure off of him. Now he has that. While the Cavs have nowhere near the defense those Miami teams had..

edit: not even including his rookie year when he took a great Boston team to 7 in an epic series putting up 20/6/6/1/1 on 53% TS..as a 20 year old. Or when he put up 27/3/7/1 on 50% TS against Lebron's Cavs in his 2nd season.

He hasn't proven exactly what I said.

Over the last 3 years in the playoffs...he's been sub 50% TS in each of them.

I don't think that can be good enough.

Really? This is a controversial opinion? That a shoot first, shoot a lot, pointguard shooting sub 50% TS probably won't be good enough to win the title?

Really? That is what it's come to...we have to pretend like that isn't a serious issue for a guy that has averaged 24 shots a game in the playoffs over that time?

If he plays differently, then we'll see.

But you guys ask a question...you get an honest answer. Rose has not proven he can shoot above 50% TS in the playoffs because he's never done it outside of his rookie year for 7 games...and even then 52.7% TS likely won't get it done either.

[Jameerthefear]

Honestly any team with Lebron can beat the Bulls.

[poido123]

No. Chicago is still better. The Cavs best 3 players would>Chicago's best 3 but the Bulls would have far greater depth. Moreover, the Bulls would have continuity in terms of coaching and the team's system along with returning many of the same players. The Cavs have a coach with zero NBA experience and, under this scenario, the Cavs' two best players would be new additions to the team. Rose, Noah, Butler, Gibson are longtime incumbents. Even though Rose has not seen much action, Rose has been part of the culture and system for years and people like Noah have played with him for a while. Irving will have to learn Love and LeBron. Remember, one reason the 11' Heat underachieved is it took them a year to learn to play together optimally.

The Spurs have demonstrated the importance of good coaching, a good system, depth and continuity. Chicago has all these things in spades; Cleveland does not.


A big 3 has proven to be successful against us, as evidenced by Miami. Yes you're right, it will take a year before the cavs reach their potential, however they might already have enough in talent to beat our team, like miami did in their first year to us.

Big difference now is, our team won't be shutdown by shutting down rose. He now has guys around him who will hit shots and gasol will be dangerous in the post with his passing and scoring.

I agree we still might have the slight edge, but I expect a very close series...

[poido123]

Honestly any team with Lebron can beat the Bulls.


Any team with/without Lebron can beat the magic.

[Jameerthefear]

Any team with/without Lebron can beat the magic.
Why are you bringing up the Magic in a thread about the Bulls and Cavs? Are you upset?

[DMAVS41]

No. Chicago is still better. The Cavs best 3 players would>Chicago's best 3 but the Bulls would have far greater depth. Moreover, the Bulls would have continuity in terms of coaching and the team's system along with returning many of the same players. The Cavs have a coach with zero NBA experience and, under this scenario, the Cavs' two best players would be new additions to the team. Rose, Noah, Butler, Gibson are longtime incumbents. Even though Rose has not seen much action, Rose has been part of the culture and system for years and people like Noah have played with him for a while. Irving will have to learn Love and LeBron. Remember, one reason the 11' Heat underachieved is it took them a year to learn to play together optimally.

The Spurs have demonstrated the importance of good coaching, a good system, depth and continuity. Chicago has all these things in spades; Cleveland does not.

I agree with almost all of this post, but the Heat learned to play together in like 17 games. They were absolutely great from that 9-8 record up through the first 40 minutes of game 2 in the finals.

It wasn't chemistry or anything like that...it was a combination of Dirk/Terry punching them right in the mouth in crunch time...and Lebron choking.

You don't go 61-19 over an 80 game span...including 12-3 in the playoffs while having a top 3 offense and top 5 defense...and then say it was "chemistry" that caused the loss.


As for the Cavs with Love vs the Bulls. It would be a great series...and most likely the Cavs would have the two best players. And way more often than not...that is what wins.

[poido123]

Why are you bringing up the Magic in a thread about the Bulls and Cavs? Are you upset?


Clearly mad :lol

Too E...

[Jameerthefear]

Clearly mad :lol

Too E...
Yeah bro. You got me.

[Milbuck]

He hasn't proven exactly what I said.

Over the last 3 years in the playoffs...he's been sub 50% TS in each of them.

I don't think that can be good enough.

Really? This is a controversial opinion? That a shoot first, shoot a lot, pointguard shooting sub 50% TS probably won't be good enough to win the title?

Really? That is what it's come to...we have to pretend like that isn't a serious issue for a guy that has averaged 24 shots a game in the playoffs over that time?

If he plays differently, then we'll see.

But you guys ask a question...you get an honest answer. Rose has not proven he can shoot above 50% TS in the playoffs because he's never done it outside of his rookie year for 7 games...and even then 52.7% TS likely won't get it done either.
You just ignored every bit of context I provided and just re-stated that one little statistic. The point is, Rose has played damn well in close to every series he's ever been in aside from the Miami series...as the sole offensive creator for his team, which is something you don't seem to care about. It's hard to reach Shaq-level efficiency when you're the only player on your team who can handle the ball, score, and make plays for others consistently. He had no business leading the Bulls to push 2009 Boston to 7 games, yet he did. He was great against Lebron's Cavs as a 2nd year player. No one expected him to break through the way he did in 2011 and rape his first and second round opponents the way he did, yet he did.

You keep pointing to one little statistic but ignoring essentially everything around it. Was KG's 04 playoff run mediocre because he shot 51% TS as a big man?

[poido123]

Yeah bro. You got me.


Still mad, I would be too if I made a bet on the magic making 4th seed or higher. :lol

[poido123]

I agree with almost all of this post, but the Heat learned to play together in like 17 games. They were absolutely great from that 9-8 record up through the first 40 minutes of game 2 in the finals.

It wasn't chemistry or anything like that...it was a combination of Dirk/Terry punching them right in the mouth in crunch time...and Lebron choking.

You don't go 61-19 over an 80 game span...including 12-3 in the playoffs while having a top 3 offense and top 5 defense...and then say it was "chemistry" that caused the loss.


As for the Cavs with Love vs the Bulls. It would be a great series...and most likely the Cavs would have the two best players. And way more often than not...that is what wins.


The cavs core has little to no playoff experience(lebron will have to play another long playoff series), a rookie coach, players thrown together that don't quite fit each others style, i still think we have the slight edge.

[ballinhun8]

You just ignored every bit of context I provided and just re-stated that one little statistic. The point is, Rose has played damn well in close to every series he's ever been in aside from the Miami series...as the sole offensive creator for his team, which is something you don't seem to care about. It's hard to reach Shaq-level efficiency when you're the only player on your team who can handle the ball, score, and make plays for others consistently. He had no business leading the Bulls to push 2009 Boston to 7 games, yet he did. He was great against Lebron's Cavs as a 2nd year player. No one expected him to break through the way he did in 2011 and rape his first and second round opponents the way he did, yet he did.


You keep pointing to one little statistic but ignoring essentially everything around it. Was KG's 04 playoff run mediocre because he shot 51% TS as a big man?


:applause:


I guess this is why I am a Kobe fan. To me, I dont care for efficiency or "TS" or crap like PER. I watch enough to know who is effective

[Jameerthefear]

Still mad, I would be too if I made a bet on the magic making 4th seed or higher. :lol
I'm FURIOUS.

[RedBlackAttack]

No. Chicago is still better. The Cavs best 3 players would>Chicago's best 3 but the Bulls would have far greater depth. Moreover, the Bulls would have continuity in terms of coaching and the team's system along with returning many of the same players. The Cavs have a coach with zero NBA experience and, under this scenario, the Cavs' two best players would be new additions to the team. Rose, Noah, Butler, Gibson are longtime incumbents. Even though Rose has not seen much action, Rose has been part of the culture and system for years and people like Noah have played with him for a while. Irving will have to learn Love and LeBron. Remember, one reason the 11' Heat underachieved is it took them a year to learn to play together optimally.

The Spurs have demonstrated the importance of good coaching, a good system, depth and continuity. Chicago has all these things in spades; Cleveland does not.
Thing is, we still don't know the extent of the Cavs' depth come opening night or even following the trade deadline. It is really impossible to do a comprehensive comparison at this stage because the Cavaliers are in such flux at the moment.

The OP's lineup assumes that a Love deal will include either Brewer or KMart coming with him, but we don't know if either or both or someone completely unknown will be coming as an addition to the move.

Also, it has been widely reported in Cavs circles that they're working on some other move in addition to this Love deal, likely for a center. Now, who that center will be and how big of a factor this "other" move could be? Again, we don't know, so speculation is pointless.

Right now, here's what I feel comfortable penciling in on the Cavs' roster and there will be additions...


PG - Kyrie Irving / Matthew Dellavadova
SG - Dion Waiters / Mike Miller
SF - LeBron James / Joe Harris
PF - Kevin Love / Tristan Thompson
C - Anderson Varejao / Brendan Haywood


We're still waiting on word from Ray Allen. We still really have no idea who is going to be moving in addition to Love, if anyone. If we end up just getting Love in return for Wiggins and filler, I'd assume Bennett will be staying. If Bennett is a part of the deal, I would expect something of value coming back with Love.

And then there is this other mystery move to consider. Keep in mind that, even after the Love trade, the Cavs will likely have substantial maneuverability. I don't see them getting any more than one pick, if that, and it will likely be our worst (Cavs pick in 2018 would be my guess).

That still leaves both the Heat and Grizz first-rounders to use in other deals. Then, there's Tristan Thompson, who could be used with those two picks to go after a more proven veteran bigman.


All things considered, I think this lineup is off to a pretty good start. If we can add a little depth to the center position and as long as he can avoid injury (more likely now that he won't have to carry as much of the load), Varejao is a fine starting center on a team built like this one.

He's an elite rebounder, versatile defender, excellent passer and intangibles guy who doesn't need the ball in his hands or plays run for him to have a big impact. Essentially the perfect compliment to a team chalk full of scorers and playmakers.


Yeah, if healthy, I think this lineup -- assuming reinforcements are brought in for depth -- is better than a healthy Chicago. What it may come down to is how well guys like Kyrie, Dion and KLove buy-in to Blatt's defensive philosophies. They've all been criticized at one time or another for their defensive acumen, but none of the three have ever been in a position of actually contending not to mention playing alongside a guy like LeBron who will presumably demand their best effort.

I was on record as wanting the Cavs to do everything in their power to get Love without having to give up Wiggins, but that was because of my longterm infatuation with this roster. In the short-term? A Kyrie-Dion-James-Love-Varejao starting five has the potential to be f#cking amazing, especially with sharp-shooters filling up the bench (Miller, Allen).


I think some people are forgetting just how dynamic a player Kevin Love can be... and how -- on paper -- perfectly he looks alongside James-Kyrie-Dion.


Kevin Love Full Highlights 2013.12.13 at Spurs - 42 Pts, 14 Rebs, 8-9 From Three
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXbuy0IJTVw)

[Cocaine80s]

Kevin Love and Kyrie will fit with Lebron way better than with Bosh and Wade.


Love wont even have to change his game much, i think Kyrie will have to adjust though

[RedBlackAttack]

Kevin Love and Kyrie will fit with Lebron way better than with Bosh and Wade.


Love wont even have to change his game much, i think Kyrie will have to adjust though
...and LeBron should and will likely adapt his game to playing alongside Kyrie. Fact of the matter is, he's never played with any point guard even in the same league as Kyrie Irving, who will likely continue getting better and better. Kyrie will not be made into just a spot-up shooter for James to outlet the ball to after pounding and driving. In fact, I think Kyrie is going to be doing much of the setting up and LeBron will be finishing much more than he has the last four years.

Blatt's offensive philosophy also revolves around quick, precise cuts and passes with lots of variations on the pick-and-roll/pops. It is much more like what we saw out of the Spurs than what the Heat did, which was to rely on their great playmakers to set-up their outside shooting.

I foresee a ton of pick-and-rolls between these three guys and Dion as well, who is a gifted ball-handler and passer. They're going to have a ton of potential to run the kinds of offensive sets that no other team in the league can duplicate, just based off of the talent and how the pieces fit.

Also remember that Kevin Love is maybe the best in the league at rebounding and outletting to immediately start fastbreaks... while LeBron and Kyrie are two of the best transition finishers in the NBA.

Could be amazing to watch.

[Cocaine80s]

...and LeBron should and will likely adapt his game to playing alongside Kyrie. Fact of the matter is, he's never played with any point guard even in the same league as Kyrie Irving, who will likely continue getting better and better. Kyrie will not be made into just a spot-up shooter for James to outlet the ball to after pounding and driving. In fact, I think Kyrie is going to be doing much of the setting up and LeBron will be finishing much more than he has the last four years.

Blatt's offensive philosophy also revolves around quick, precise cuts and passes with lots of variations on the pick-and-roll/pops. It is much more like what we saw out of the Spurs than what the Heat did, which was to rely on their great playmakers to set-up their outside shooting.

I foresee a ton of pick-and-rolls between these three guys and Dion as well, who is a gifted ball-handler and passer. They're going to have a ton of potential to run the kinds of offensive sets that no other team in the league can duplicate, just based off of the talent and how the pieces fit.

Also remember that Kevin Love is maybe the best in the league at rebounding and outletting to immediately start fastbreaks... while LeBron and Kyrie are two of the best transition finishers in the NBA.

Could be amazing to watch.
i still dont understand why people keep thinking the Cavs wont be deadly if they get Love.

[fpliii]

Sorta OT - What did you guys make of Blatt's offensive schemes from watching summer league? From what I've heard/read, he like to run the Princeton Offense, modified for the modern usage of the 3.

[poido123]

Thing is, we still don't know the extent of the Cavs' depth come opening night or even following the trade deadline. It is really impossible to do a comprehensive comparison at this stage because the Cavaliers are in such flux at the moment.

The OP's lineup assumes that a Love deal will include either Brewer or KMart coming with him, but we don't know if either or both or someone completely unknown will be coming as an addition to the move.

Also, it has been widely reported in Cavs circles that they're working on some other move in addition to this Love deal, likely for a center. Now, who that center will be and how big of a factor this "other" move could be? Again, we don't know, so speculation is pointless.

Right now, here's what I feel comfortable penciling in on the Cavs' roster and there will be additions...


PG - Kyrie Irving / Matthew Dellavadova
SG - Dion Waiters / Mike Miller
SF - LeBron James / Joe Harris
PF - Kevin Love / Tristan Thompson
C - Anderson Varejao / Brendan Haywood


We're still waiting on word from Ray Allen. We still really have no idea who is going to be moving in addition to Love, if anyone. If we end up just getting Love in return for Wiggins and filler, I'd assume Bennett will be staying. If Bennett is a part of the deal, I would expect something of value coming back with Love.

And then there is this other mystery move to consider. Keep in mind that, even after the Love trade, the Cavs will likely have substantial maneuverability. I don't see them getting any more than one pick, if that, and it will likely be our worst (Cavs pick in 2018 would be my guess).

That still leaves both the Heat and Grizz first-rounders to use in other deals. Then, there's Tristan Thompson, who could be used with those two picks to go after a more proven veteran bigman.


All things considered, I think this lineup is off to a pretty good start. If we can add a little depth to the center position and as long as he can avoid injury (more likely now that he won't have to carry as much of the load), Varejao is a fine starting center on a team built like this one.

He's an elite rebounder, versatile defender, excellent passer and intangibles guy who doesn't need the ball in his hands or plays run for him to have a big impact. Essentially the perfect compliment to a team chalk full of scorers and playmakers.


Yeah, if healthy, I think this lineup -- assuming reinforcements are brought in for depth -- is better than a healthy Chicago. What it may come down to is how well guys like Kyrie, Dion and KLove buy-in to Blatt's defensive philosophies. They've all been criticized at one time or another for their defensive acumen, but none of the three have ever been in a position of actually contending not to mention playing alongside a guy like LeBron who will presumably demand their best effort.

I was on record as wanting the Cavs to do everything in their power to get Love without having to give up Wiggins, but that was because of my longterm infatuation with this roster. In the short-term? A Kyrie-Dion-James-Love-Varejao starting five has the potential to be f#cking amazing, especially with sharp-shooters filling up the bench (Miller, Allen).


I think some people are forgetting just how dynamic a player Kevin Love can be... and how -- on paper -- perfectly he looks alongside James-Kyrie-Dion.


Kevin Love Full Highlights 2013.12.13 at Spurs - 42 Pts, 14 Rebs, 8-9 From Three
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXbuy0IJTVw)


Going on this year though? We aren't talking about when cavs have built chemistry and necessary pieces past this year...

Again, how do you overcome a rookie coach, 1core player with playoff experience, big changes and beat a quality team like the bulls?

Lebron will likely have to play his 5th ECF in a row, how tired will he be?

If you dont have a rim protector coming in, who will be stopping rose from getting to the hole? Irving to stop rose from blowing by him? Lol

Stick lebron on rose, then we have gasol, McDermott and mirotic to step up. Not boozer shrinking in the corner or an outlet pass going to bogans :facepalm

We have the edge, the cavs will need to build an identity first, then work out a defensive scheme capable of stopping the bulls in one year together.

I'm a little surprised that you believe cavs are will be better than bulls this year...

[RedBlackAttack]

i still dont understand why people keep thinking the Cavs wont be deadly if they get Love.
They've forgotten just how good Love is and Kyrie has gone from overrated last year at this time (No. 7 ranked player in the league by ESPN.com) to completely underrated this offseason.

And then there is Dion Waiters, who fits very well alongside Kyrie-LeBron-Love as either a starter or one of the best 6th men in the league.

Yes, from the offensive side of the ball, all of these guys fit together far better than the Big Three ever did in Miami... and the Cavs have better "other" pieces to surround them with. It may take a little time with all of these new pieces and a new coaching staff, but the sky is truly the limit.

[Jameerthefear]

Lets not act like the Bulls don't have issues either
-Rose is injury prone and we don't know how he'll play when he comes back either.
-Mitotic is a question mark
-Gasol is getting older and is a bad defender at this point (no worse than Boozer but still)

[russwest0]

The Bulls are FAR better than the Cavaliers defensively.

[MastaKilla]

3/5 of the cavs will be all stars, maybe 4 if Andy V can stay healthy. Cavs talent would trump the bulls, unless D Rose is completely healthy & a combination of of either Gasol/Taj or Gasol/Noah play out of their mids for a series the bulls will be trouble.

[Milbuck]

i still dont understand why people keep thinking the Cavs wont be deadly if they get Love.
No one is saying they won't be deadly..the general consensus is that the Cavs with Love and the Bulls are far and away the 2 best teams in the East and both Finals caliber teams. The biggest thing holding them back from being the clear-cut favorites is defense.

[poido123]

They've forgotten just how good Love is and Kyrie has gone from overrated last year at this time (No. 7 ranked player in the league by ESPN.com) to completely underrated this offseason.

And then there is Dion Waiters, who fits very well alongside Kyrie-LeBron-Love as either a starter or one of the best 6th men in the league.

Yes, from the offensive side of the ball, all of these guys fit together far better than the Big Three ever did in Miami... and the Cavs have better "other" pieces to surround them with. It may take a little time with all of these new pieces and a new coaching staff, but the sky is truly the limit.


Speaking of fit, how will Irving handle playing off the ball alot when lebron inevitably wants the ball in is hands?

Or what about waiters who will want to be more prominent on offense than the occasional scraps thrown to him?

Seems to be too much offense and not enough defense?

[RedBlackAttack]

Going on this year though? We aren't talking about when cavs have built chemistry and necessary pieces past this year...

Again, how do you overcome a rookie coach, 1core player with playoff experience, big changes and beat a quality team like the bulls?

Lebron will likely have to play his 5th ECF in a row, how tired will he be?

If you dont have a rim protector coming in, who will be stopping rose from getting to the hole? Irving to stop rose from blowing by him? Lol

Stick lebron on rose, then we have gasol, McDermott and mirotic to step up. Not boozer shrinking in the corner or an outlet pass going to bogans :facepalm

We have the edge, the cavs will need to build an identity first, then work out a defensive scheme capable of stopping the bulls in one year together.

I'm a little surprised that you believe cavs are will be better than bulls this year...
That's actually not what I said. I said that I think, right now, their starting five is better than Chicago's starting five. And, that's the only thing I can go by, because we have no idea how the Cavs' remaining roster spots will fill out.

Also, I have little doubt that Kyrie and Love will be applying far more effort defensively. First, because Blatt is reportedly an excellent defensive coach. Second, because neither will have to carry their respective offenses the way they had to do in previous years with so much offensive firepower to help them. Third, because they'll now be surrounded by veterans who will demand that they keep their energy up on that end. Fourth, because neither guy has ever played on a true playoff contender, let alone a potential championship contender.

I've watched Kyrie enough to know that his defensive problems have been mostly about effort and focus, not a lack of fundamental skill. Hell, I thought he did a really nice job on Rose the other night in the Blue-White scrimmage after the first five minutes. Forced some turnovers, was aggressive, had good energy.

I'm not saying he is ever going to be an All-NBA defender, but I don't think he'll need to be on this team and in Blatt's scheme. He'll just need to fill his role, which I believe he can and will.


I'm less familiar with Love's defensive acumen, but I'm assuming it's a similar situation. A guy who is forced to do so many other things and on a team that is going nowhere fast... they often use the defensive end to take breathers. That won't be necessary on this team.

Only time will tell. But, yeah... I think the starting five that I listed is better than the Bulls' five. That's all I can compare atm.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Too hard to say

Nobody knows how this Cavs team will play out. Who knows how Blatt will be and who knows how the chemistry of the team will play out?

[RedBlackAttack]

Speaking of fit, how will Irving handle playing off the ball alot when lebron inevitably wants the ball in is hands?

Or what about waiters who will want to be more prominent on offense than the occasional scraps thrown to him?

Seems to be too much offense and not enough defense?
Like I said, I expect both LeBron and Kyrie to adapt their game to play alongside one another... and I have confidence in Blatt's system, too, which is more about sharp passing and cuts and tons of variations on pick-and-rolls... which could be deadly with Kyrie/LeBron, LeBron/Love, Kyrie/Love, Dion/LeBron, Dion/Love, etc.

Every one of those guys can shoot out beyond the three-point line, handle the ball, pass and finish at the rim. There's no reason for this team to resort to simple isolation basketball where one guy is pounding the ball and the rest stand around and watch.

Bosh had to adapt his game to fit alongside LeBron offensively. Wade would occasionally take turns running the offense with LeBron or would be invisible save for the occasional back-door cut.

Meanwhile, when LeBron is handling the ball, Kyrie could be deadly as a spot-up shooter. Defenses will have to respect it, too, which will open up driving lanes the likes of which LeBron didn't see playing next to Wade.


It's just a better offensive fit, without a doubt.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Like I said, I expect both LeBron and Kyrie to adapt their game to play alongside one another... and I have confidence in Blatt's system, too, which is more about sharp passing and cuts and tons of variations on pick-and-rolls... which could be deadly with Kyrie/LeBron, LeBron/Love, Kyrie/Love, Dion/LeBron, Dion/Love, etc.

Every one of those guys can shoot out beyond the three-point line, handle the ball, pass and finish at the rim. There's no reason for this team to resort to simple isolation basketball where one guy is pounding the ball and the rest stand around and watch.

Bosh had to adapt his game to fit alongside LeBron offensively. Wade would occasionally take turns running the offense with LeBron or would be invisible save for the occasional back-door cut.

Meanwhile, when LeBron is handling the ball, Kyrie could be deadly as a spot-up shooter. Defenses will have to respect it, too, which will open up driving lanes the likes of which LeBron didn't see playing next to Wade.


It's just a better offensive fit, without a doubt.
I'm expecting LeBron to let Irving do a lot of the handling aside from in key moments... mostly just because of the fatigue of the last 4 years going to the finals. Plus it gives LeBron an excuse to do more off-ball game and spot up shooting, which he is great it.

[poido123]

Lets not act like the Bulls don't have issues either
-Rose is injury prone and we don't know how he'll play when he comes back either.
-Mitotic is a question mark
-Gasol is getting older and is a bad defender at this point (no worse than Boozer but still)


Anderson varejeo has played 2 out of 10 full seasons

Last 4 seasons: 31, 25, 25, 65

Mirotic is no question mark. Guy has played high level basketball in Europe and represented thejunior national teams for Spain. He will contribute right away.

Gasols passing out of the post will be another dynamic we havent had. Now we have the shooters to compliment that, the inside/outside game should be very solid for the bulls.

[poido123]

That's actually not what I said. I said that I think, right now, their starting five is better than Chicago's starting five. And, that's the only thing I can go by, because we have no idea how the Cavs' remaining roster spots will fill out.

Also, I have little doubt that Kyrie and Love will be applying far more effort defensively. First, because Blatt is reportedly an excellent defensive coach. Second, because neither will have to carry their respective offenses the way they had to do in previous years with so much offensive firepower to help them. Third, because they'll now be surrounded by veterans who will demand that they keep their energy up on that end. Fourth, because neither guy has ever played on a true playoff contender, let alone a potential championship contender.

I've watched Kyrie enough to know that his defensive problems have been mostly about effort and focus, not a lack of fundamental skill. Hell, I thought he did a really nice job on Rose the other night in the Blue-White scrimmage after the first five minutes. Forced some turnovers, was aggressive, had good energy.

I'm not saying he is ever going to be an All-NBA defender, but I don't think he'll need to be on this team and in Blatt's scheme. He'll just need to fill his role, which I believe he can and will.


I'm less familiar with Love's defensive acumen, but I'm assuming it's a similar situation. A guy who is forced to do so many other things and on a team that is going nowhere fast... they often use the defensive end to take breathers. That won't be necessary on this team.

Only time will tell. But, yeah... I think the starting five that I listed is better than the Bulls' five. That's all I can compare atm.

We all know that games aren't won on a piece of paper and you can't rely on players doing things they haven't consistently done before. Particularly in the pressure house of a playoffs series, your defense needs to be rock solid with good communication(cavs need time to get this part right).

On paper you could argue Miami has more talent than the spurs starting lineup in this years finals. But what happened? The team with better ball movement, better team chemistry won quite convingly.

What I'm saying is, teams take continuity and fluidity to win on the biggest stage. Rarely does a team have this many big changes and no playoff experience and win in their first year.

There's clearly a defensive weakness in this current cavs team. If they get a rim protector soon? Then id say cavs have the edge...

[Jameerthefear]

Anderson varejeo has played 2 out of 10 full seasons

Last 4 seasons: 31, 25, 25, 65

Mirotic is no question mark. Guy has played high level basketball in Europe and represented thejunior national teams for Spain. He will contribute right away.

Gasols passing out of the post will be another dynamic we havent had. Now we have the shooters to compliment that, the inside/outside game should be very solid for the bulls.
Anyone that hasn't played a minute in the NBA is a question mark.

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm expecting LeBron to let Irving do a lot of the handling aside from in key moments... mostly just because of the fatigue of the last 4 years going to the finals. Plus it gives LeBron an excuse to do more off-ball game and spot up shooting, which he is great it.
Probably not a bad idea. :oldlol:

http://footbasket.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2014-02-1619_28_48.gif

http://clevelandthegoat.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/irving-105.gif

http://i.minus.com/ieRjFqFAE982W.gif

http://losthatsportsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/kyrie-assist1.gif

http://abload.de/img/kyriex5soa.gif

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/4853305/irving-pass-to-zeller-o.gif

And don't forget about this guy...

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1889983/tumblr_mlbufo4d9l1s3gys4o1_400.gif

[poido123]

Anyone that hasn't played a minute in the NBA is a question mark.


Rubio was similar to mirotics situation and he adjusted almost seamlessly. Plus mirotic will have a fellow countrymen to settle him immediately.

I'm sure mirotic will have an initial adjustment then get better and better as the season goes on.

Again, he's not your typical rookie.

[nzahir]

Very close. Bulls have to be championship or bust, while cavs dont atm(until they get love).
Cavs obviously will have more offensive power but bulls have the much better defense and more depth.
You also have to see how everyone plays together. I would go cavs for now b/c having the best player in the world can help in a lot of ways, but picking the bulls still wouldnt be a wrong choice

[poido123]

Probably not a bad idea. :oldlol:

http://footbasket.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2014-02-1619_28_48.gif

http://clevelandthegoat.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/irving-105.gif

http://i.minus.com/ieRjFqFAE982W.gif

http://losthatsportsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/kyrie-assist1.gif

http://abload.de/img/kyriex5soa.gif

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/4853305/irving-pass-to-zeller-o.gif

And don't forget about this guy...

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1889983/tumblr_mlbufo4d9l1s3gys4o1_400.gif



That's great.

You have some very good slashers on the team with good handles.

We have played a team like that before, where is the elite swarming defense going to come from that Miami beat us with in the end?

We held our own and yet we had absolutely no dynamics to our offense against them.

We will abuse Cavs interior defense. Loves main strength that he brings to the cavs, is exactly what mirotic will provide too.

[Mr. Incredible]

LeBron owns the Bulls so yeah Cleveland wins the series.

[poido123]

LeBron owns the Bulls so yeah Cleveland wins the series.

Not this year they won't be :rockon:

[El Gato Negro]

even if the cavs do get love they wont be done making moves, pointless to talk about till the rosters are set.

[MrC1991]

If Chicago is healthy we can beat the Cavs in 6.

[Cocaine80s]

That's great.

You have some very good slashers on the team with good handles.

We have played a team like that before, where is the elite swarming defense going to come from that Miami beat us with in the end?

We held our own and yet we had absolutely no dynamics to our offense against them.

We will abuse Cavs interior defense. Loves main strength that he brings to the cavs, is exactly what mirotic will provide too.
who will abuse the cavs interior defense? noah? pau? :oldlol:

this isnt bosh in the paint. its a legit 7 footer plus a 6'10 pf with above average D.

also lol at saying that a player who has yet to play in the NBA can bring exactly what Love can :facepalm

[J Shuttlesworth]

Probably not a bad idea. :oldlol:

http://footbasket.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2014-02-1619_28_48.gif

http://clevelandthegoat.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/irving-105.gif

http://i.minus.com/ieRjFqFAE982W.gif

http://losthatsportsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/kyrie-assist1.gif

http://abload.de/img/kyriex5soa.gif

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/4853305/irving-pass-to-zeller-o.gif

And don't forget about this guy...

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1889983/tumblr_mlbufo4d9l1s3gys4o1_400.gif
god damn. It's all coming together. LeBron, Irving, Love, Waiters, Miller, (allen?)

My body is so ready for this team :bowdown:

[poido123]

who will abuse the cavs interior defense? noah? pau? :oldlol:

this isnt bosh in the paint. its a legit 7 footer plus a 6'10 pf with above average D.

also lol at saying that a player who has yet to play in the NBA can bring exactly what Love can :facepalm


Reading comprehension. :facepalm

Noah and pau absolutely can with elite passing pau scoring at will and putbacks, then Gibsons energy and mirotic off the bench.

Mirotic stretches a defense much like love will. Both very good shooters for their size.

Love cannot stop pau from scoring in the post, and varejao wont be around in the playoffs most likely.

How do you suppose they beat a team who's core has been together a lot longer and a coach more experienced?

[Fudge]

Edge over the Bulls? You mean the entire league. They'll be the favorites to win it all next season.

[russwest0]

Edge over the Bulls? You mean the entire league. They'll be the favorites to win it all next season.

They are HEAVY favorites in the betting odds right now.

Yet if they lose the media will still make excuses for Bran :facepalm

[dubeta]

They are HEAVY favorites in the betting odds right now.

Yet if they lose the media will still make excuses for Bran :facepalm

so Bran and scrubs should win the East? :oldlol:

[Cocaine80s]

Reading comprehension. :facepalm

Noah and pau absolutely can with elite passing pau scoring at will and putbacks, then Gibsons energy and mirotic off the bench.

Mirotic stretches a defense much like love will. Both very good shooters for their size.

Love cannot stop pau from scoring in the post, and varejao wont be around in the playoffs most likely.

How do you suppose they beat a team who's core has been together a lot longer and a coach more experienced?
Lol verajao played more games than pau last season

[poido123]

Lol verajao played more games than pau last season


By 5 games in varejeos most injury free year for like 4 seasons? :lol

Varejao has proven he can not finish out a season. All the niggling injuries he incurs builds up and then he's done.

[Fudge]

They are HEAVY favorites in the betting odds right now.

Yet if they lose the media will still make excuses for Bran :facepalm
Excuses forever. :lol

Once they get K.Love, they should be destroying every team in their way. That's how fukking stacked they are.

[dc_chilling]

Last time James was on the Cavs and played the Bulls in a playoff series the Cavs beat them in 5.

That Bulls team was centered around Rose/Noah/Deng/Gibson/Hinrich. Lebron was playing with Mo Williams,Boobie Gibson, and Delonte West.

Since that time period, the Bulls lost Deng and Rose has missed years due to back to back knee injuries/surgeries.

James on the other hand, has won multiple championships and MVP awards.

Now you're asking me if a team consisting of Lebron James, Kyrie Irving, and Kevin Love give the Cavs an edge over the Bulls?

:lol

[poido123]

Last time James was on the Cavs and played the Bulls in a playoff series the Cavs beat them in 5.

That Bulls team was centered around Rose/Noah/Deng/Gibson/Hinrich. Lebron was playing with Mo Williams,Boobie Gibson, and Delonte West.

Since that time period, the Bulls lost Deng and Rose has missed years due to back to back knee injuries/surgeries.

James on the other hand, has won multiple championships and MVP awards.

Now you're asking me if a team consisting of Lebron James, Kyrie Irving, and Kevin Love give the Cavs an edge over the Bulls?

:lol


Spin doctor here :lol

I give you a 10 for effort. But you are completely ignoring important variables that clearly impact the matchup. The changes of personnel around those players can not be ignored.

This is not a video game. :rolleyes:

[poido123]

Lebron can add prime Kareem muth$f.cking Abdul Jabbar for all I care!

I back my team and I know what they are capable of. No excuses,we can hang with anyone.

I'll back my team every time against a team led by a guy who wants the easy way. :pimp:

[Cocaine80s]

By 5 games in varejeos most injury free year for like 4 seasons? :lol

Varejao has proven he can not finish out a season. All the niggling injuries he incurs builds up and then he's done.
i remember someone already explaining verajao's injuries to you and how they were all freak injuries and none of them are chronic.


Rose has a higher chance of going down before Verajao :oldlol:

[Nash]

Irving > Rose, for now
Waiters = Butler
Lebron>McDermott
Love>Gasol
Varejao < Noah

Chicago bench >

[fiddy]

Chicago and its not even close

[dc_chilling]

Spin doctor here :lol

I give you a 10 for effort. But you are completely ignoring important variables that clearly impact the matchup. The changes of personnel around those players can not be ignored.

This is not a video game. :rolleyes:

I hit the important variables.

Rose has missed 192 of a possible 242 regular season games since 2011.

James has won 2 MVP's, 2 rings, 2 FMVP's, and a gold medal since 2011.

The Bulls have never pushed a series facing a James led team past 5 games.

Yeah, changes of personnel can't be ignored. Lebron just swapped out a broken down Wade for Irving and Chris Bosh for a top 8 player capable of 30/30 games. Plus, the bench is filled with sharpshooters from the Heat championship teams.

What personnel changes have the Bulls made? They drafted Doug McDermott and got a Pau Gasol I could barely recognize last season.

I understand you are supporting your team irrationally but come on.

[Fudge]

Also, is that what the Bulls projecting starting lineup is gonna look like? Why is Snell starting over Buckets?

[poido123]

Also, is that what the Bulls projecting starting lineup is gonna look like? Why is Snell starting over Buckets?


Snell has already had a year in thib's system, but I think as the year goes on and McDermott gets more comfortable, he will push for that starting spot. I think in some lineups, mirotic will play some SF too.

I know its just summer league, but Snell looks to of improved a lot.

[poido123]

i remember someone already explaining verajao's injuries to you and how they were all freak injuries and none of them are chronic.


Rose has a higher chance of going down before Verajao :oldlol:


Facts are facts.

However he goes down, he keeps going down and enough history shows varejeo doesn't make it through seasons...

[Cocaine80s]

Facts are facts.

However he goes down, he keeps going down and enough history shows varejeo doesn't make it through seasons...
same goes for rose :lol

[poido123]

same goes for rose :lol

I think rose has had two freak injuries, varejeo gets injured because his body can't handle a season...

I hope you can see the difference there.

[Rocketswin2013]

Cleveland's defense looks like it'll be pretty bad

[JohnFreeman]

LeBron has beaten Chicago with less

[Cocaine80s]

I think rose has had two freak injuries, varejeo gets injured because his body can't handle a season...

I hope you can see the difference there.
i think a broken wrist and blood clot are more freakish than a torn acl and meniscus...

you never know how Rose's knees will hold up. even worse that both knees are now ****ed

[raprap]

If Bran really is the player he's hyped to be, they should beat the Bulls without much fuss in this scenario.

He should be head and shoulders above anyone else on the court and the supporting casts beyond that are equal or even weighted in Cleveland's favor.

No excuses.
this clown :oldlol:

[poido123]

I hit the important variables.

Rose has missed 192 of a possible 242 regular season games since 2011.

James has won 2 MVP's, 2 rings, 2 FMVP's, and a gold medal since 2011.

The Bulls have never pushed a series facing a James led team past 5 games.

Yeah, changes of personnel can't be ignored. Lebron just swapped out a broken down Wade for Irving and Chris Bosh for a top 8 player capable of 30/30 games. Plus, the bench is filled with sharpshooters from the Heat championship teams.

What personnel changes have the Bulls made? They drafted Doug McDermott and got a Pau Gasol I could barely recognize last season.

I understand you are supporting your team irrationally but come on.


I like how you leave out mirotic BTW :lol

Comon man, we have a proven track record of winning and beating all east teams outside of miami When healthy with a far less potent and one dimensional team.

You are asking a playoff virgin, rookie coached team(cavs)to win in their first year against a battle hardened and far more dynamic team than previous bulls teams.

You are making point of the big 3 but where is the backbone of their defense? Who is going to stop Noah and gasols passing game or putbacks? Who is going to close out mirotic on the 3 point line? Who's stopping rose from getting to the rack? Who's going to stop McDermott's shots off a screen and post game?

2 can play that game. You can't just point to 3 stars and say they are unbeatable. Bulls will be a far more cohesive unit and leave them for dead on defense.

[JohnFreeman]

I like how you leave out mirotic BTW :lol

Comon man, we have a proven track record of winning and beating all east teams outside of miami When healthy with a far less potent and one dimensional team.

You are asking a playoff virgin, rookie coached team(cavs)to win in their first year against a battle hardened and far more dynamic team than previous bulls teams.

You are making point of the big 3 but where is the backbone of their defense? Who is going to stop Noah and gasols passing game or putbacks? Who is going to close out mirotic on the 3 point line? Who's stopping rose from getting to the rack? Who's going to stop McDermott's shots off a screen and post game?

2 can play that game. You can't just point to 3 stars and say they are unbeatable. Bulls will be a far more cohesive unit and leave them for dead on defense.
I think the Bulls will be good, but they always fall short for some reason.

[poido123]

i think a broken wrist and blood clot are more freakish than a torn acl and meniscus...

you never know how Rose's knees will hold up. even worse that both knees are now ****ed


You are missing the point dude. That doesn't explain 2 full seasons out of 10.

Do you understand how injury prone that is? We are not talking about 2 injuries going wrong, that is 8 seasons of 8 things going wrong. :confusedshrug:

[Cocaine80s]

I like how you leave out mirotic BTW :lol

Comon man, we have a proven track record of winning and beating all east teams outside of miami When healthy with a far less potent and one dimensional team.

You are asking a playoff virgin, rookie coached team(cavs)to win in their first year against a battle hardened and far more dynamic team than previous bulls teams.

You are making point of the big 3 but where is the backbone of their defense? Who is going to stop Noah and gasols passing game or putbacks? Who is going to close out mirotic on the 3 point line? Who's stopping rose from getting to the rack? Who's going to stop McDermott's shots off a screen and post game?

2 can play that game. You can't just point to 3 stars and say they are unbeatable. Bulls will be a far more cohesive unit and leave them for dead on defense.
2009- first round exit
2010-owned by cavs in 5
2011-beat the deadly pacers and hawks:applause: then proceed to get owned by heat in 5

[JohnFreeman]

I think the Bulls have a better chance this season. In past playoffs, you can see the Chicago offense just disappear

[Cocaine80s]

You are missing the point dude. That doesn't explain 2 full seasons out of 10.

Do you understand how injury prone that is? We are not talking about 2 injuries going wrong, that is 8 seasons of 8 things going wrong. :confusedshrug:
i would take his injuries over two devestating knee injuries in a row :eek:

anyways im just warning you to not get too excited only to be let down again when the inevitable happens

[poido123]

2009- first round exit
2010-owned by cavs in 5
2011-beat the deadly pacers and hawks:applause: then proceed to get owned by heat in 5


Use your head clown.

I suppose beating a D-League team facing Lebron is an achievement according to your logic?

Context is a wonderful thing.

A second year rose v a 7th year lebron in 09/10. Can't be serious.

3rd year rose v an 8th year lebron (inexperienced and one dimensional bulls)

We've had legit excuses for our failings. Please have some logic

[Cocaine80s]

Use your head clown.

I suppose beating a D-League team facing Lebron is an achievement according to your logic?

Context is a wonderful thing.

A second year rose v a 7th year lebron in 09/10. Can't be serious.

3rd year rose v an 8th year lebron (inexperienced and one dimensional bulls)

We've had legit excuses for our failings. Please have some logic
"Comon man, we have a proven track record of winning and beating all east teams outside of miami When healthy with a far less potent and one dimensional team. "

so where exactly is this proof? surely u arent talking about the regular season :oldlol:

[Lebron23]

this clown :oldlol:


He's a clown. Cavs would beat the Bulls. Lebron always beat the Bulls in the playoffs.

[returnofthemack]

No. Chicago is still better. The Cavs best 3 players would>Chicago's best 3 but the Bulls would have far greater depth. Moreover, the Bulls would have continuity in terms of coaching and the team's system along with returning many of the same players. The Cavs have a coach with zero NBA experience and, under this scenario, the Cavs' two best players would be new additions to the team. Rose, Noah, Butler, Gibson are longtime incumbents. Even though Rose has not seen much action, Rose has been part of the culture and system for years and people like Noah have played with him for a while. Irving will have to learn Love and LeBron. Remember, one reason the 11' Heat underachieved is it took them a year to learn to play together optimally.

The Spurs have demonstrated the importance of good coaching, a good system, depth and continuity. Chicago has all these things in spades; Cleveland does not.

Comparing the spurs to he bulls is foolish. Don't act like the bulls are somehow the spurs of the east because they are not.

Lebron is the best player in the league. That gives the cavs the edge.

11 heat didn't underachieve. They made it to he finals and if it wasn't for Lebrons disappearing act they would have won. A finals appearance is a pretty successful year for any team.

Gasol is a nice addition but it's not putting them over the top.

Like others have said that kid from Akron has run over the bulls his whole career. This isn't going to change any time soon.

[poido123]

"Comon man, we have a proven track record of winning and beating all east teams outside of miami When healthy with a far less potent and one dimensional team. "

so where exactly is this proof? surely u arent talking about the regular season :oldlol:


ECF finals appearance in the year they had rose, beaten any team Bulls have been capable of beating when they had rose.

The times they have failed has only been when Rose wasn't there.

They have always performed to their best. No chokes that's for sure.

[DukeDelonte13]

Irving > Rose, for now
Waiters = Butler
Lebron>McDermott
Love>Gasol
Varejao < Noah

Chicago bench >


:rolleyes:

[poido123]

Jimmy Buckets will give bron fits again. Bron played bad in every game against Chicago last year, Jimmy plays near perfect D on him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHwMkn6tvnE


Underrated aspect to this matchup. Thanks for point that out :applause:

Jimmy can straight up rattle Lebron to the point he passes the ball off and goes passive for long stretches.

You can't contain Lebron, but I haven't seen anyone defend him like Jimmy.

[Cocaine80s]

Underrated aspect to this matchup. Thanks for point that out :applause:

Jimmy can straight up rattle Lebron to the point he passes the ball off and goes passive for long stretches.

You can't contain Lebron, but I haven't seen anyone defend him like Jimmy.
Kawhi guards Lebron better than anyone and Bron still put up 28/8/4

[ArbitraryWater]

Thing is, we still don't know the extent of the Cavs' depth come opening night or even following the trade deadline. It is really impossible to do a comprehensive comparison at this stage because the Cavaliers are in such flux at the moment.

The OP's lineup assumes that a Love deal will include either Brewer or KMart coming with him, but we don't know if either or both or someone completely unknown will be coming as an addition to the move.

Also, it has been widely reported in Cavs circles that they're working on some other move in addition to this Love deal, likely for a center. Now, who that center will be and how big of a factor this "other" move could be? Again, we don't know, so speculation is pointless.

Right now, here's what I feel comfortable penciling in on the Cavs' roster and there will be additions...


PG - Kyrie Irving / Matthew Dellavadova
SG - Dion Waiters / Mike Miller
SF - LeBron James / Joe Harris
PF - Kevin Love / Tristan Thompson
C - Anderson Varejao / Brendan Haywood


We're still waiting on word from Ray Allen. We still really have no idea who is going to be moving in addition to Love, if anyone. If we end up just getting Love in return for Wiggins and filler, I'd assume Bennett will be staying. If Bennett is a part of the deal, I would expect something of value coming back with Love.

And then there is this other mystery move to consider. Keep in mind that, even after the Love trade, the Cavs will likely have substantial maneuverability. I don't see them getting any more than one pick, if that, and it will likely be our worst (Cavs pick in 2018 would be my guess).

That still leaves both the Heat and Grizz first-rounders to use in other deals. Then, there's Tristan Thompson, who could be used with those two picks to go after a more proven veteran bigman.


All things considered, I think this lineup is off to a pretty good start. If we can add a little depth to the center position and as long as he can avoid injury (more likely now that he won't have to carry as much of the load), Varejao is a fine starting center on a team built like this one.

He's an elite rebounder, versatile defender, excellent passer and intangibles guy who doesn't need the ball in his hands or plays run for him to have a big impact. Essentially the perfect compliment to a team chalk full of scorers and playmakers.


Yeah, if healthy, I think this lineup -- assuming reinforcements are brought in for depth -- is better than a healthy Chicago. What it may come down to is how well guys like Kyrie, Dion and KLove buy-in to Blatt's defensive philosophies. They've all been criticized at one time or another for their defensive acumen, but none of the three have ever been in a position of actually contending not to mention playing alongside a guy like LeBron who will presumably demand their best effort.

I was on record as wanting the Cavs to do everything in their power to get Love without having to give up Wiggins, but that was because of my longterm infatuation with this roster. In the short-term? A Kyrie-Dion-James-Love-Varejao starting five has the potential to be f#cking amazing, especially with sharp-shooters filling up the bench (Miller, Allen).


I think some people are forgetting just how dynamic a player Kevin Love can be... and how -- on paper -- perfectly he looks alongside James-Kyrie-Dion.


Kevin Love Full Highlights 2013.12.13 at Spurs - 42 Pts, 14 Rebs, 8-9 From Three
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXbuy0IJTVw)

I was gone for like a week but I do remember you being against (getting) Kevin Love (For Wiggins) :lol

Like with LeBron, these thoughts seem to have vanished?

But this is exactly it.. What we preached. You need to take your chances in the NBA, if you can contend for titles right now, then do it... Love doesn't just give you chances right now, but for the next 5+ years.

[poido123]

I think the Bulls will be good, but they always fall short for some reason.


I know what you mean. Hopefully they are good enough to get past that . Having a deeper team where rose and Noah won't have to do as much in the reg season will allow them to be stronger in the playoffs.

Thibs will need to be smart on minutes to keep them fresh for the playoffs.

[Cocaine80s]

I was gone for like a week but I do remember you being against (getting) Kevin Love (For Wiggins) :lol

Like with LeBron, these thoughts seem to have vanished?

But this is exactly it.. What we preached. You need to take your chances in the NBA, if you can contend for titles right now, then do it... Love doesn't just give you chances right now, but for the next 5+ years.
RBA has a bunch of sources so he knows wtf is coming up before everyone else here. i think hes still sorta against the trade but is trying to cope with it instead of bitch about it since its pretty much done

[poido123]

Kawhi guards Lebron better than anyone and Bron still put up 28/8/4


You haven't watched Jimmy defend Lebron before(look at Warfans YouTube clip). Leonard is really good, but Jimmy gives just the right space and anticipates lebrons directions better than him.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Irony: Saying LeBron shutting down Rose was "team system" but saying Butler doing a good job on LeBron is all because of Jimmy...

Jimmy Butler is almost never on an island with Lebron...

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/000/852/195/Overload2_crop_exact.png?w=650&h=433&q=85

[Cocaine80s]

You haven't watched Jimmy defend Lebron before(look at Warfans YouTube clip). Leonard is really good, but Jimmy gives just the right space and anticipates lebrons directions better than him.
i remember watching him in the 2013 playoffs but Kawhi did a way better job than him in 2013 finals and the last 3 games of 2014 finals

[Cocaine80s]

Bron did score a lot on Diaw in the finals (especially in gm 2 & 5, his highest scoring games). Kawhi did a great job on bron and definitely made him hesitant to go at him (see game 3 & 4, and Kawhi got in some BS foul trouble in gm 2).

The Bulls defense is better than the Spurs, having Noah and Gibson backing up Jimmy combined with Thibs defensive scheme means bron will have more trouble with Chicago. Just like he has the last 2 seasons when Jimmy has been his primary defender (whilst Deng would primarily check him before that and bron always worked him over).
exactly my point. Lebron dominated when Kawhi was in foul trouble. I think the last 3 games where Kawhi had a lot of playtime was when Lebron started to shut down

[poido123]

Bron did score a lot on Diaw in the finals (especially in gm 2 & 5, his highest scoring games). Kawhi did a great job on bron and definitely made him hesitant to go at him (see game 3 & 4, and Kawhi got in some BS foul trouble in gm 2).

The Bulls defense is better than the Spurs, having Noah and Gibson backing up Jimmy combined with Thibs defensive scheme means bron will have more trouble with Chicago. Just like he has the last 2 seasons when Jimmy has been his primary defender (whilst Deng would primarily check him before that and bron always worked him over).


Deng's defense was way overrated and even by bulls fans.

Lebron toasted his ass when he defended him. Deng would get too close to him and lebron would simply just use his size and speed to push around him and score.

To defend lebron you have to give him about a meters space to read his direction. Getting up on his grill makes it too easy for him to just bulldoze to the hole and beat you off the first step...

[JohnFreeman]

Bulls fans labeled Deng as the "LeBron stopper"

[poido123]

i remember watching him in the 2013 playoffs but Kawhi did a way better job than him in 2013 finals and the last 3 games of 2014 finals


Tell me exactly how he defended lebron better and perhaps provide a YouTube clip showing the differences?

Kawhi has some incredibly long hands/arms that do allow him to disrupt and swipe at lebron when facing up. But still, I've never seen lebron look so rattled being defended by someone like butler. Butler makes lebron defer a lot more than he should...

[poido123]

Bulls fans labeled Deng as the "LeBron stopper"


:rolleyes: such a myth.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Bulls fans labeled Deng as the "LeBron stopper"
ive actually never seen this

[JohnFreeman]

ive actually never seen this
Trust me, in 2011 this was what Bulls fans were saying.

[Cocaine80s]

Tell me exactly how he defended lebron better and perhaps provide a YouTube clip showing the differences?

Kawhi has some incredibly long hands/arms that do allow him to disrupt and swipe at lebron when facing up. But still, I've never seen lebron look so rattled being defended by someone like butler. Butler makes lebron defer a lot more than he should...
this is painful to post but i need to prove u wrong so...

http://tuesdayswithhorry.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/lebronkawhi.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3GQzUDKMOU


theres probably a lot more videos but i dont wanna post them

[nathanjizzle]

Trust me, in 2011 this was what Bulls fans were saying.

no we wernt. thats just your own impression.

[poido123]

Irony: Saying LeBron shutting down Rose was "team system" but saying Butler doing a good job on LeBron is all because of Jimmy...

Jimmy Butler is almost never on an island with Lebron...

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/000/852/195/Overload2_crop_exact.png?w=650&h=433&q=85


If lebron has momentum, nobody can stop him and make a defender look silly trying to stay in front of him.

And yes, butler was often isolating lebron on defense, he is an elite man defender.

The series lebron claims to have shutdown rose, he used team traps to help defend rose.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

If lebron has momentum, nobody can stop him and make a defender look silly trying to stay in front of him.

And yes, butler was often isolating lebron on defense, he is an elite man defender.

The series lebron claims to have shutdown rose, he used team traps to help defend rose.
And every time Lebron caught the ball on the perimeter the bulls overloaded to him to help Butler defend Lebron....

You can't effectively guard an elite player like Rose/LeBron 1-on-1...it HAS to be a team effort...it goes without saying...

Now does Butler do an elite job of playing his role on the defense? Absolutely...Did LeBron in 2011? Absolutely

[poido123]

this is painful to post but i need to prove u wrong so...

http://tuesdayswithhorry.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/lebronkawhi.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3GQzUDKMOU


theres probably a lot more videos but i dont wanna post them


You don't want to post them? Or you don't have them :lol

OK, I'll give you that one. He looked rattled(out of the play)by Leonard. So he's been rattled by Leonard too.

I'm talking about during the play.

[JohnFreeman]

I don't think LeBron is actually reacting to Kawhi coming back in..

[poido123]

And every time Lebron caught the ball on the perimeter the bulls overloaded to him to help Butler defend Lebron....

You can't effectively guard an elite player like Rose/LeBron 1-on-1...it HAS to be a team effort...it goes without saying...

Now does Butler do an elite job of playing his role on the defense? Absolutely...Did LeBron in 2011? Absolutely

It may sound like I'm being homerish, but there's no way you compare the job Butler does on lebron to what lebron did to rose.

They just aren't the same. One used purely man defense, the other steered rose into traps.

If you want to credit lebron for that? Fine. But he didn't individually shutdown rose which is the myth that runs on ISH...

[poido123]

I don't think LeBron is actually reacting to Kawhi coming back in..


Me neither, but I can see it could be as well...

[JohnFreeman]

Me neither, but I can see it could be as well...
Same, but I think it's a delayed reaction to the missed free throw

[RoundMoundOfReb]

It may sound like I'm being homerish, but there's no way you compare the job Butler does on lebron to what lebron did to rose.

They just aren't the same. One used purely man defense, the other steered rose into traps.

If you want to credit lebron for that? Fine. But he didn't individually shutdown rose which is the myth that runs on ISH...
This is exactly what Butler does...Are you not familiar with the Bulls' overloading style of defense? They'll have Butler press Lebron and force him to Drive in to Noah or Gibson...

Examples:

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/000/852/195/Overload2_crop_exact.png?w=650&h=433&q=85

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/000/852/191/Overload1_crop_exact.png?w=650&h=433&q=85

In fact Butler gets more help than LeBron did vs Rose..

[DukeDelonte13]

at the end of the day, as we've seen with San Antonio, it's just going to boil down to which team executes their game plan better.

Both teams have lots of talent on their roster. we can argue all day over who Snell or Buckets is going to guard well or not guard well, or how the Cavs have X amount of perimeter threats, or how well Gasol and Noah tandem will play, players have good days and bad.

[poido123]

at the end of the day, as we've seen with San Antonio, it's just going to boil down to which team executes their game plan better.

Both teams have lots of talent on their roster. we can argue all day over who Snell or Buckets is going to guard well or not guard well, or how the Cavs have X amount of perimeter threats, or how well Gasol and Noah tandem will play, players have good days and bad.


I like this outlook.

Both teams will hurt the other, both have unique weapons at their disposal.

[poido123]

Same, but I think it's a delayed reaction to the missed free throw


that makes a lot of sense.

I've done that in a game before :lol

[DukeDelonte13]

I like this outlook.

Both teams will hurt the other, both have unique weapons at their disposal.


Epic playoff matchup.

[Cocaine80s]

inb4 both eliminated before ecf

[poido123]

This is exactly what Butler does...Are you not familiar with the Bulls' overloading style of defense? They'll have Butler press Lebron and force him to Drive in to Noah or Gibson...

Examples:

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/000/852/195/Overload2_crop_exact.png?w=650&h=433&q=85

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/000/852/191/Overload1_crop_exact.png?w=650&h=433&q=85

In fact Butler gets more help than LeBron did vs Rose..

I can't watch those on my IPad for some reason...

When and if lebron beats butler off a good drive, the help defense will come in.

However, Butler will keep lebron from going into the help defense more often than not because he can keep in front of him a lot.

No way, lebron got plenty of help. Bosh was always there to trap or cut off the drive with lebron.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I can't watch those on my IPad for some reason...

When and if lebron beats butler off a good drive, the help defense will come in.

However, Butler will keep lebron from going into the help defense more often than not because he can keep in front of him a lot.

No way, lebron got plenty of help. Bosh was always there to trap or cut off the drive with lebron.
they aren't videos they're images...and the defense pre-rotates to lebron...it's not traditional help defense...it's like a soft double team

[poido123]

Epic playoff matchup.


Lebron Trolls get me riled up, so I end up getting defensive about my team :lol

I honestly respect the cavs and its fans, I know we have a tough out when we inevitably play them. We have to be at our best, that's for sure...

:cheers:

[poido123]

they aren't videos they're images...and the defense pre-rotates to lebron...it's not traditional help defense...it's like a soft double team


look how far Noah is away from the ball :lol

There's quite a bit of work for butler to do before Noah needs to come in and help him out...

Bosh would often come up off the high screen and trap any momentum rose got at the top of the key. So lebron would essentially have rose trying to drive off the dribble, with a longer and bigger body, angling rose into traps on the court.

[DukeDelonte13]

inb4 both eliminated before ecf


legit possibility.


This cavs team is a wildcard. Roster is not set. Everybody just assumes Love going there is a done deal. I don't.

Blatt, although a very experienced coach, still has to get through to Kyrie and Dion to get the most out of those young guys. Lebron will help in that regard.

[JohnFreeman]

Hawks, Wizards, Raps, Hornets, Nets barring injuries can give both teams trouble

[poido123]

they aren't videos they're images...and the defense pre-rotates to lebron...it's not traditional help defense...it's like a soft double team


Good observation.

But again, I just think Butler deserves the credit for his man defense on lebron. He's like one of the only players who can do that without being smoked hard. The soft double team may come in, but butler rarely uses it.

[poido123]

Hawks, Wizards, Raps, Hornets, Nets barring injuries can give both teams trouble


I agree.

Out of those I worry about hornets and wizards.

Hornets have a very good balance to their team now. Some really nice off season moves. If lance allows himself to be taught by MJ and harness that attitude for good, he could turn into a killer on the court.

Wizards have an awesome backcourt. they beat us last year and I think the natural improvement of beal and wall could make them deadly. Their core will benefit from a full year together too.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Good observation.

But again, I just think Butler deserves the credit for his man defense on lebron. He's like one of the only players who can do that without being smoked hard. The soft double team may come in, but butler rarely uses it.
As do i..he's a terrific defender no doubt

[poido123]

As do i..he's a terrific defender no doubt


What are your thoughts on how each team will exploit each other? Let's assume the teams stand as is with Wiggins/Bennett gone and love brewer coming in...

[Graviton]

Butler did an amazing job on Kobe and Melo too, he just has that discipline to not fall for anything basic. Pump/Head/Shot fakes don't faze him, he stays focused and just plays textbook perimeter defense. His spacing, pressure and defensive IQ is only matched by Tony Allen. He can be aggressive, but not careless. He doesn't foul due to frustration or reach in out of desperation.

If he can contain Lebron, Bulls may have a chance. But idk how good Cavs will be with Love/Irving/Dion helping James.

[poido123]

Butler did an amazing job on Kobe and Melo too, he just has that discipline to not fall for anything basic. Pump/Head/Shot fakes don't faze him, he stays focused and just plays textbook perimeter defense. His spacing, pressure and defensive IQ is only matched by Tony Allen. He can be aggressive, but not careless. He doesn't foul due to frustration or reach in out of desperation.

If he can contain Lebron, Bulls may have a chance. But idk how good Cavs will be with Love/Irving/Dion helping James.

Enjoyed your take on Butler, very good insight :applause:

The names scare me. But clumping together names doesn't always work. Outside of lebron, there is no playoff experience and much of the stars strengths are nullified by the others.

Love will be used much like bosh but with better rebounding and a slightly worse post game.

Irving will have to play off the ball more than he's used to, but once Dion lebron and Irving click on slashing to the hole in waves, they will be impossible to contain.

Dion will need to find shots somehow. He may struggle to keep interested with lack of opportunity.

[BarberSchool]

inb4 both eliminated before ecfLMAO
What's it gonna be ?
Wizards vs. Knicks ?

LMAO

[I<3NBA]

the Cavs are nowhere near as good as the Heat in terms of defense. and Blatt is not known for his defense unlike Spoelstra. I expect the Bulls to score over their average against the Cavs.

that's going to be the difference. i think Bulls win.

[Cocaine80s]

LMAO
What's it gonna be ?
Wizards vs. Knicks ?

LMAO
knicks? they arent even making the playoffs.



Wizards, heat, and hornets all have a pretty good chance

[El Gato Negro]

the Cavs are nowhere near as good as the Heat in terms of defense. and Blatt is not known for his defense unlike Spoelstra. I expect the Bulls to score over their average against the Cavs.

that's going to be the difference. i think Bulls win.
Blatt is very well known for his defense. one thing we know about thibs tho he will run his players into the ground before the playoffs even start.

[RedBlackAttack]

I was gone for like a week but I do remember you being against (getting) Kevin Love (For Wiggins) :lol

Like with LeBron, these thoughts seem to have vanished?

But this is exactly it.. What we preached. You need to take your chances in the NBA, if you can contend for titles right now, then do it... Love doesn't just give you chances right now, but for the next 5+ years.
These kinds of posts are so strange to me. So, I voice my opinion on a particular player or trade or whatever and suddenly I'm not permitted to discuss said player again in a totally different context without first giving some kind of preamble about my previously stated positions? I doubt anyone really cares enough about my opinion to sit through multiple footnotes and chapters of context before I actually get to the point.

My stance on getting Love never had anything to do with the player or his skill level. He is a great player. I am just reluctant to give up multiple No. 1 overall picks based on what I perceived Love's market value to be, not to mention issues I have with the status of his contract beyond this season.

But, from a purely basketball standpoint, he is just about the perfect compliment to LeBron/Kyrie/Dion.

[kamil]

Am I the only one that doubts D Rose's potential after having both knees shot?

[Milbuck]

Am I the only one that doubts D Rose's potential after having both knees shot?
What about his potential? His actual game and athleticism right now or avoiding future injuries?

[CHi1PriDe]

Am I the only one that doubts D Rose's potential after having both knees shot?

Well let's hope not, he took the more safer route with his surgeries and a longer time with recovering and also he's still young.

[Derka]

Cavs are still going to have to adjust to a new coach and a lot of new pieces coming in and gelling together. Also very curious to see how they play defense, which is kinda important. We already know how Thibs pushes his guys on that end.

I give the edge to the Bulls if Rose comes back at 100% and tears shit up, but I still think the West wins the Finals regardless.

[Dengness9]

Cavs are still going to have to adjust to a new coach and a lot of new pieces coming in and gelling together. Also very curious to see how they play defense, which is kinda important. We already know how Thibs pushes his guys on that end.

I give the edge to the Bulls if Rose comes back at 100% and tears shit up, but I still think the West wins the Finals regardless.

One of the more level headed answers to this question:rockon:

[DukeDelonte13]

the Cavs are nowhere near as good as the Heat in terms of defense. and Blatt is not known for his defense unlike Spoelstra. I expect the Bulls to score over their average against the Cavs.

that's going to be the difference. i think Bulls win.


Spo wasn't known for jack sh*t before the big 3 happened.

[dreamwarrior]

Cavs getting Love gives them an edge over every team in the league. Irving, though not the level of regular season CP3 is as good as post-season CP3. Waiters is as good as today's Dwayne Wade. Cavs will have a big 4. How do you compete with that?

[Hoopz2332]

Bulls are more rounded/balanced overall but lebron is enough to put the Cavs over them.

[KOBE143]

2 of the best statpadder in one team.. Gooldluck with that..

[J Shuttlesworth]

james with any team can beat the bulls
this

[plowking]

this

Solid bump there.

[Eric Cartman]

james with any team can beat the bulls

:applause:

[J Shuttlesworth]

I cannot wait to remove this myth for good. :lol

6% , rose can't beat a lebron led team, etc etc :facepalm
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[J Shuttlesworth]

That goes for us too. No excuses, rose has significant help of shooters and a proper inside post player to dump the ball into and make plays. In fact, bulls have two elite passing bigmen and the best bench in the league.

If healthy, absolutely no excuses for bulls either.
agreed

[YouGotServed]

Bulls get blown out in embarrassing fashion. Houston with one of the most stunning comebacks ever to force game 7.

Poido taking Ls tonight :yaohappy: