Enough with this Finals Record Crap

[ArbitraryWater]

Finals Record does not matter... It's irrelevant. If you lose, lose in the Finals. Make it the furthest possible. Loosing before is worse. If anything, titles matter... going 6/9 is better than going 6/6. Same amount of titles with more finals appearances.

Jerry West is one of the greatest finals performers ever, right up there with Jordan/Shaq, and he's 1-8 in the Finals...
I had this particular example in mind when even guys like DonDadda were like "Jerry West? Don't know about that guy... He's 1-8 in the Finals" :facepalm

Okay then...

Jerry West 1963 NBA finals; 29.5ppg / 6.8rpg / 4.5apg on 49%

Lack of killer instinct.

Jerry West 1967 NBA finals: 33.9ppg / 6.4rpg / 5.1apg on 51.5% FG.

Just didn

[LBJFTW]

If you are going to get there, then finish what you started.

Do as Jordan did. Don't make excuses.

Anything else after getting there is coming up short and nothing more.

2/5

[SouBeachTalents]

Nope, it's obviously better to miss the playoffs than to play well in the Finals and lose

[Knicks014Champs]

It's no crap, theere is no way Melo would lose finals ever, his clutch gene in finals atmosphere would shine, even himself couldn't control his alphaness, phil knows what he's doing. Melo about to lead a dynasty, phil sees true alphas.

[sportjames23]

If you are going to get there, then finish what you started.

Do as Jordan did. Don't make excuses.

Anything else after getting there is coming up short and nothing more.

2/5


This.

If Lebron was 5/5, OP would use it as proof of Lebron's GOAT status.

[SouBeachTalents]

It's no crap, theere is no way Melo would lose finals ever, his clutch gene in finals atmosphere would shine, even himself couldn't control his alphaness, phil knows what he's doing. Melo about to lead a dynasty, phil sees true alphas.

:roll:

[STATUTORY]

never seen a german stan Bron so hard

[Natureland]

It's no crap, theere is no way Melo would lose finals ever, his clutch gene in finals atmosphere would shine, even himself couldn't control his alphaness, phil knows what he's doing. Melo about to lead a dynasty, phil sees true alphas.
:biggums:

[Milbuck]

It's been almost a month. Why are you still melting down?

[Brokenbeat]

never seen a german stan Bron so hard

Bran and Hasslehoff. :bowdown:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/03/18/article-2295049-18BCB971000005DC-662_634x430.jpg

[StephHamann]

http://i.imgur.com/945opPA.png

[SouBeachTalents]

This.

If Lebron was 5/5, OP would use it as proof of Lebron's All-Time great status.

:facepalm Obviously if he had 5 rings, with 5 potential Finals MVP's, that would be brought up to show his all time status. The point he's trying to make is he believes it's better to be 5/12 in Finals than 5/5

[sportjames23]

:facepalm Obviously if he had 5 rings, with 5 potential Finals MVP's, that would be brought up to show his all time status. The point he's trying to make is he believes it's better to be 5/12 in Finals than 5/5


Hell, no it ain't.

5/12 means you got your ass stomped 7 times. 5/5 means no one can touch you.

[Roundball_Rock]

If you are going to get there, then finish what you started.

Do as Jordan did. Don't make excuses.

Anything else after getting there is coming up short and nothing more.

2/5

Jordan lost in the ECF twice and once lost in the ECSF with a team that finished the season on a 21-6 tear. That is better than losing in the Finals?

[Lakers2877]

It absolutely matters when discussing and comparing legacies

[DaSeba5]

If he was 5/5 we wouldn't hear the end of it.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan lost in the ECF twice and once lost in the ECSF with a team that finished the season on a 21-6 tear. That is better than losing in the Finals?

Jordan would be better off missing the playoffs those seasons, then he'd have NEVER lost a playoff series

[J Shuttlesworth]

It absolutely matters when discussing and comparing legacies
So would you consider Jerry West to be an absolute choker then? 1/8

[ArbitraryWater]

How can this post make so many people mad, even Milbuck? Milbuck, are you trying to make me your new Smook?

Anyway, if Bron was 5/5, that would mean he has 5 rings... nothing to do with his W/L ratio. Nobody even lists Russell's 11/12 which is far superior than 6/6.

But this "finish the job" thing is pathetic.

Look at Jerry West not finishing the job :facepalm What a choker...

[ArbitraryWater]

If he was 5/5 we wouldn't hear the end of it.

What does this have to do with my OP, really?

Are you trying to point this at me? Making mindless assumptions? I would never go around with the "5/5" unless LeBron would have played well in all his finals, which he hasn't..you happy, or what were you waiting for here?

[sportjames23]

Jordan lost in the ECF twice and once lost in the ECSF with a team that finished the season on a 21-6 tear. That is better than losing in the Finals?


I'd rather not get to the Finals (or Super Bowl/World Series/Stanley Cup Finals, etc.) than to get there and lose. All that work, just to fall short.

It's like getting to the alter and getting stood up by your intended bride/groom.

[tpols]

http://i.imgur.com/36G14Bk.gif


2/5.. if not for jesus 1/5.

[SouBeachTalents]

I'd rather not get to the Finals (or Super Bowl/World Series/Stanley Cup Finals, etc.) than to get there and lose. All that work, just to fall short.

It's like getting to the alter and getting stood up by your intended bride/groom.

So you'd rather have a losing season than win your conference?

[ArbitraryWater]

It absolutely matters when discussing and comparing legacies

Actually, nope.. not at all.

Besides fans using the "Jordan 6/6", I've literally never heard finals record brought up... I don't know what Wilt's, Kareem's, Magic's is... I could think of it based on their appearances, but all I know right now is their amount of titles, which is the one thing people seem to care about.

Nobody has tried to explain to me "Russell is GOAT because he's 11/12"... No, "Russell is the greatest, he's won 11 titles!" .. THAT, more likely.

[1Time4YourMind]

How can this post make so many people mad, even Millbuck? Milbuck, are you trying to make me your new Smook?

Anyway, if Bron was 5/5, that would mean he has 5 rings... nothing to do with his W/L ratio. Nobody even lists Russell's 11/12 which is far superior than 6/6.

But this "finish the job" thing is pathetic.

Look at Jerry West not finishing the job :facepalm What a choker...

Its exactly what kobe said at his world cup interview. Thers a huge expectation set for winning as many rings as possible when in reality you have to be both skilled and lucky to win all those rings. Winning 1 or 2 is already great but then theres always someone who says "why not 5 or 6? Lel u suck"

[Milbuck]

How can this post make so many people mad, even Millbuck? Milbuck, are you trying to make me your new Smook?

You don't have what it takes to be Smook. Never have, never will. Don't disrespect the greatest bitchboy to ever grace this forum.

[jrong]

The problem is that LeBron has only played well in three of five Finals, and in one of the cases in which he underperformed, a very strong case can be made that he was responsible for the team's defeat.

So like it or not, since the subtext here is obviously LeBron's place in the GOAT discussion, Finals records and records of performance matter. A lot.

I will give LeBron this. By going back to the Cavs, he's given himself a pathway to best ever status. If he stayed in Miami, he would have been dogged by the ""had to form a superstar team" until the end of his career (unless he really did win "not 6, not 7...")

If he establishes a dynasty in Cleveland, now he's in the discussion.

[ArbitraryWater]

You don't have what it takes to be Smook. Never have, never will. Don't disrespect the greatest bitchboy to ever grace this forum.

I don't know, I just thought we'd be cool by now :confusedshrug:

[Marchesk]

Hell, no it ain't.

5/12 means you got your ass stomped 7 times. 5/5 means no one can touch you.

Except in the playoffs the seven times you didn't make it.

[DaSeba5]

What does this have to do with my OP, really?

Are you trying to point this at me? Making mindless assumptions? I would never go around with the "5/5" unless LeBron would have played well in all his finals, which he hasn't..you happy, or what were you waiting for here?

LeBron stans are tired of hearing about 2/5, we would be tired of hearing about 5/5 from them. So it's fair game. And I didn't say you. I was speaking in general. However, I do believe it's better to lose in the Finals than not make it at all.

[LoPro4u2c]

Adam Morrison 2/2

2/5.

/thread.

[Marchesk]

It absolutely matters when discussing and comparing legacies

But really, it shouldn't. The OP is right, it's better to get as far as you can than lose earlier in the playoffs.

[tpols]

Actually, nope.. not at all.

Besides fans using the "Jordan 6/6", I've literally never heard finals record brought up... I don't know what Wilt's, Kareem's, Magic's is... I could think of it based on their appearances, but all I know right now is their amount of titles, which is the one thing people seem to care about.

Nobody has tried to explain to me "Russell is GOAT because he's 11/12"... No, "Russell is the greatest, he's won 11 titles!" .. THAT, more likely.

In order for Russel to have his 11 rings but match brans finals winning % he'd have to have lost in the Finals 16 more times.


2/5.

[SouBeachTalents]

The problem is that LeBron has only played well in three of five Finals, and in one of the cases in which he underperformed, a very strong case can be made that he was responsible for the team's defeat.

So like it or not, since the subtext here is obviously LeBron's place in the GOAT discussion, Finals records and records of performance matter. A lot.

I will give LeBron this. By going back to the Cavs, he's given himself a pathway to best ever status. If he stayed in Miami, he would have been dogged by the ""had to form a superstar team" until the end of his career (unless he really did "not 7... not 8")

If he establishes a dynasty in Cleveland, now he's in the discussion.

This. I think how well a player performs in the Finals is all that matters. LeBron deserves all the criticism he gets for his horrendous performance in the 2011 Finals. But for example, it's complete bullshit Kobe gets a boost to his legacy for his mediocre play in the 2000 Finals just because Shaq had an all time great performance and the Lakers won

[ArbitraryWater]

LeBron stans are tired of hearing about 2/5, we would be tired of hearing about 5/5 from them. So it's fair game. And I didn't say you. I was speaking in general. However, I do believe it's better to lose in the Finals than not make it at all.

What fantasy world are you talking about? This isn't reality... Reality is folks running around with their cute "2/5".. I don't know how useful it is talking about some hypothetical scenario where LeBron is 5/5 and what his fans might do in such situation.

[aboss4real24]

this argument Is only used by LB STANS

[Marlo_Stanfield]

never seen a german stan Bron so hard
you havent seen me yet:coleman:

[Marchesk]

Absolutely nobody cares that Magic is 5/9. It's not used against him. Maybe because Jordan came after Magic, so Magic didn't have to contend with being compared to him.

[Milbuck]

I don't know, I just thought we'd be cool by now :confusedshrug:
:oldlol: We're cool. Just think you should chill with the Lebron stanning for a bit, you're better than that. Let the 2/5 idiots have their fun, it's the offseason. Lebron's gonna tear it up next year with the Cavs, save it for then.

[tmacattack33]

Yes, being 1/2 in the Finals is better than being 1/1.

Instead of getting mad at anyone who thinks being 1/1 would be better than getting there twice and losing one of them, just use it as a filter on one's use of logic. It will allow u to see who u can ignore.

If someone thinks the 1/1 is seriously better, his opinion on sports loses credibility.

[DaSeba5]

What fantasy world are you talking about? This isn't reality... Reality is folks running around with their cute "2/5".. I don't know how useful it is talking about some hypothetical scenario where LeBron is 5/5 and what his fans might do in such situation.

Ok. If he's a player that's supposed to be MJ's competition for GOAT, it's fair game. He's 2/5. Jordan is 6/6. And I don't dislike LeBron, but people can say 2/5. Now if they are trolling and that's all they say that's another story.

[Roundball_Rock]

I'd rather not get to the Finals (or Super Bowl/World Series/Stanley Cup Finals, etc.) than to get there and lose. All that work, just to fall short.

Wow. So you would rather finish 6th in the Indy 500 than 2nd?

The other thing about "2/5" is it ignores context. LeBron lost to teams with a heavy foreign influence. Most of the 2014 Spurs' rotation was foreign; the 1994 and 1984 Spurs did not have a single foreign player. Who is to say he would not have fared better if he only faced competition from one country in past eras? :lol


He's 2/5. Jordan is 6/6.

Losing seasons: MJ 5, LJ 1 (out of high school)
First round losses: MJ 3, LJ 0
First round sweeps: MJ 2, LJ 0
ECF losses: MJ 2, LJ 1
Times 7th or 8th seed: MJ 2*, LJ 0

LJ has a better record prior to the Finals...

*Excluding 86'

[FrobeShaw]

this argument Is only used by LB STANS

What kind of New Yorker would rep Suge?

[J Shuttlesworth]

this argument Is only used by LB STANS
Laker fans don't know that by saying 2/5, they are throwing Jerry West under the bus

[SouBeachTalents]

Wow. So you would rather finish 6th in the Indy 500 than 2nd?

The other thing about "2/5" is it ignores context. LeBron lost to teams with a heavy foreign influence. Most of the 2014 Spurs' rotation was foreign; the 1994 and 1984 Spurs did not have a single foreign player. Who is to say he would not have fared better if he only faced competition from one country in past eras? :lol



Losing seasons: MJ 5, LJ 1
First round losses: MJ 3, LJ 0
ECF losses: MJ 2, LJ 1

LJ has a better record prior to the Finals...

I know, people knock LeBron for being a "beta" and "not being competitive enough", but that's one of the most cowardly, noncompetitive stances I've ever seen. I'd always rather make the championship game and risk a loss than not be there at all

[tpols]

Wow. So you would rather finish 6th in the Indy 500 than 2nd?

The other thing about "2/5" is it ignores context. LeBron lost to teams with a heavy foreign influence. Most of the 2014 Spurs' rotation was foreign; the 1994 and 1984 Spurs did not have a single foreign player. Who is to say he would not have fared better if he only faced competition from one country in past eras? :lol

who cares if the team he faced was foreign when the best players are all still from america?


Only reason Bran has lost so many times in the Finals because he gets dominated by europeans dirk, parker, duncan. If only he got to face magic johnson, charles Barkley, larry bird, patrick ewing, karl malone, and john stockton instead. Wouldve been a cakewalk!

[ArbitraryWater]

Ok. If he's a player that's supposed to be MJ's competition for GOAT, it's fair game. He's 2/5. Jordan is 6/6. And I don't dislike LeBron, but people can say 2/5. Now if they are trolling and that's all they say that's another story.

Yea, Jordan has 6 titles, LeBron has 2... That's where the difference is at.

Of course even the ring counting is a very broad way way of looking at it, but I'm saying it's better than punishing someone for loosing in the finals instead of loosing before them...

[SouBeachTalents]

Laker fans don't know that by saying 2/5, they are throwing Jerry West under the bus

I don't think Laker fans know Jerry West played for them

[J Shuttlesworth]

OP, you should also mention how everyone talks about how weak the Eastern Conference is. That means that making the finals doesn't mean you were even a legit contender, since it was such a terrible conference. Those finals losses shouldn't count against you unless you are in the West

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

How is this even debatable?

Obviously it all depends on how the individual performs, but in a vacuum, Winning 6/12 is better than 6/6.

[ArbitraryWater]

:oldlol: We're cool. Just think you should chill with the Lebron stanning for a bit, you're better than that. Let the 2/5 idiots have their fun, it's the offseason. Lebron's gonna tear it up next year with the Cavs, save it for then.

I don't see this as stanning but I hear ya

[tmacattack33]

If he was 5/5 we wouldn't hear the end of it.


OP's claim would not be that 5/5 isn't better than 2/5. It obviously is.

It would be that 2/2 isn't better than 2/5.

[DaSeba5]

Losing seasons: MJ 5, LJ 1 (out of high school)
First round losses: MJ 3, LJ 0
First round sweeps: MJ 2, LJ 0
ECF losses: MJ 2, LJ 1
Times 7th or 8th seed: MJ 2*, LJ 0

LJ has a better record prior to the Finals...

*Excluding 86'

However, people focus more on rings for these rankings of players. People see Jordan's 6 rings and see that he never lost in the Finals. Nobody really remembers that he lost in the first round and stuff. I'm not even trying to bash LeBron here. IJS most people focus on the Finals for these things.

[ArbitraryWater]

OP, you should also mention how everyone talks about how weak the Eastern Conference is. That means that making the finals doesn't mean you were even a legit contender, since it was such a terrible conference. Those finals losses shouldn't count against you unless you are in the West

Lol, that makes surprisingly a lot of sense.. Reminds me of this post

http://i.gyazo.com/23a9d1b6e7e35a31038c632a83c77860.png

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

OP, you should also mention how everyone talks about how weak the Eastern Conference is. That means that making the finals doesn't mean you were even a legit contender, since it was such a terrible conference. Those finals losses shouldn't count against you unless you are in the West

How does making the finals mean you're not a legit contender? Name one SANE person, on this earth, that said EVERY team is the Eastern conference = playoff fodder.

[DaSeba5]

OP's claim would not be that 5/5 isn't better than 2/5. It obviously is.

It would be that 2/2 isn't better than 2/5.

2/5 is better than 2/2. However, you should also judge their performance. LeBron choked in 2011 and didn't play well in 2007. I give him the benefit of the doubt in 2007 because his team sucked and he played the Spurs. The Heat failed LeBron in 2014. He was the only one who showed up.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Also this reminds of the thread posted earlier

I'll ask again, ISH brethren: Is 6/6 and 5/7 not better than 2/5? :confusedshrug:

2/5 matters, get used to it

[Roundball_Rock]

However, people focus more on rings for these rankings of players. People see Jordan's 6 rings and see that he never lost in the Finals. Nobody really remembers that he lost in the first round and stuff. I'm not even trying to bash LeBron here. IJS most people focus on the Finals for these things.

True--but it shows how simplistic just looking at rings is. It ignores the full record. LeBron's teams are always competitive and he has led his teams to at least a 50 win pace since he turned 21. He isn't going 40-42 and getting swept in the first round like MJ did despite being MVP runner-up. Moreover, it ignores the teams they had. MJ's team narrowly missed the top seed without him; the Cavs collapsed without LeBron and the Heat will win 40-45 games next year. Comparing rings without taking into account the situations players are in is like comparing two racers without factoring in that one is driving with 30 more horsepower.

[Hands of Iron]

Why sweat fools who can't hold down a legitimate basketball discussion? Haven't you seen how badly threads have been getting wrecked when they try? :oldlol: Been a few already today, they've fallen right off the main page.


Clear your inbox too.

[SouBeachTalents]

2/5 is better than 2/2. However, you should also judge their performance. LeBron choked in 2011 and didn't play well in 2007. I give him the benefit of the doubt in 2007 because his team sucked and he played the Spurs. The Heat lost in 2014 more than LeBron. He was the only one who showed up.

This, this is all that matters

[DaSeba5]

True--but it shows how simplistic just looking at rings is. It ignores the full record. LeBron's teams are always competitive and he has led his teams to at least a 50 win pace since he turned 21. He isn't going 40-42 and getting swept in the first round like MJ did despite being MVP runner-up. Moreover, it ignores the teams they had. MJ's team narrowly missed the top seed without him; the Cavs collapsed without LeBron and the Heat will win 40-45 games next year. Comparing rings without taking into account the situations players are in is like comparing two racers without factoring in that one is driving with 30 more horsepower.

Well then people will argue about overall competition in today's NBA. You aren't wrong, but that's just how people see things. But LeBron does need to do better in the Finals and win more rings to be on the level of Jordan. No matter how good LeBron has been and how he's carried teams for years, he's still going to be in a tier below Jordan until he wins more rings.

[ArbitraryWater]

Also this reminds of the thread posted earlier

I'll ask again, ISH brethren: Is 6/6 and 5/7 not better than 2/5? :confusedshrug:

2/5 matters, get used to it

It's better because it's more rings, NOT because of the amount of finals losses..

And no, If you really want to blame LeBron for "only" 2 rings, I can only think of 1 year where he should have won but didn't, because he messed it up... And that's 2011.

Don't be a simpleton.

[wakencdukest]

Losing in finals still means conference title. Lakers: Western Conference Champs 8 times in the 1980's. Western conference champs 7 times in the 2000's. I'd rather have a conference title than a first or second round beatdown.

[ArbitraryWater]

Why sweat fools who can't hold down a legitimate basketball discussion? Haven't you seen how badly threads have been getting wrecked when they try? :oldlol: Been a few already today, they've fallen right off the main page.


Clear your inbox too.

lol sry, cleared it up a bit :D

[Marchesk]

Chris Paul and Carmelo Anthony would be happy with 2/5.

That being said, the problem is Lebron has been set up to be the next Jordan, and Jordan set a near impossible standard (along with Pippen to be fair). Although, Duncan was a Ray Allen shot away from being 6/6, assuming the Spurs repeated.

[ralph_i_el]

If you are going to get there, then finish what you started.

Do as Jordan did. Don't make excuses.

Anything else after getting there is coming up short and nothing more.

2/5
nothing in this entire sport matters besides winning championships.

Robert Horry is the greatest player of his generation

[Marchesk]

When we're comparing championships, how does losing in the finals not matter?

Winning AND losing both matter.

I'm not one of those that gives LeBron a pass in 2007. Some of those games were close and for the series, he shot ~30%. He gets a lot of the blame for losing just as he does when he wins.

It depends on your performance as has been mentioned. West gets a pass because he performed very well in those finals, and was facing the GOAT dynasty. Lebron is getting the Wilt treatment.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Re-posted for the edit:

It's better because it's more rings, NOT because of the amount of finals losses..

And no, If you really want to blame LeBron for "only" 2 rings, I can only think of 1 year where he should have won but didn't, because he messed it up... And that's 2011.

Don't be a simpleton.

When we're comparing championships, how does losing in the finals not matter?

Winning AND losing both matter.

I'm not one of those that gives LeBron a pass in 2007. Some of those games were close and for the series, he shot ~30%. If Bron gets all the credit for his rings, then he surely gets (some) blame for the losses.

No double-standards here

[SouBeachTalents]

nothing in this entire sport matters besides winning championships.

Robert Horry is the greatest player of his generation

This

/thread

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It depends on your performance as has been mentioned. West gets a pass because he performed very well in those finals, and was facing the GOAT dynasty. Lebron is getting the Wilt treatment.

Agreed. I'm one of those that mentioned individual play on the last page.

(apparently LeBron gets a free pass in 2007; his stans cant make up their minds :oldlol:)

[DaSeba5]

It depends on your performance as has been mentioned. West gets a pass because he performed very well in those finals, and was facing the GOAT dynasty. Lebron is getting the Wilt treatment.

Yup. 2007 and 2011 hurt LeBron. I don't see many people bashing LeBron for 2014, but by then he already lost twice so that's why people troll him with 2/5.

[ArbitraryWater]

Re-posted for the edit:


When we're comparing championships, how does losing in the finals not matter?

Winning AND losing both matter.

I'm not one of those that gives LeBron a pass in 2007. Some of those games were close and for the series, he shot ~30%. If Bron gets all the credit for his rings, then he surely gets (some) blame for the losses.

No double-standards here


See, now we're getting somewhere... We're talking about his actual play, which makes much more sense.

His play in '07 was underwhelming, but I see plenty reasons for a "pass".. First and main one being, they didn't have a chance to begin with.

He f*cked up 2011.. no excuse. And now to 2014, again, I think he played fine... Reminded me of Shaq's '04 finals, which no one blames him for, either... In fact the stats are very identical, both loosing 1-4, both times their sidekick having an abysmal series.

If you don't want to hand out an '07 pass to a 22 y/o on a bum (srsly) team, okay.. It's a miracle they made the finals, but okay. Then you're left with 2 bad finals series, and 3 great ones.. Fine to me.

So blaming him for one series, the "2/5" looks wrong, really wrong.. The team record doesn't do him justice. Feel me?

[NumberSix]

It's no crap, theere is no way Melo would lose finals ever, his clutch gene in finals atmosphere would shine, even himself couldn't control his alphaness, phil knows what he's doing. Melo about to lead a dynasty, phil sees true alphas.
Nah, Melo would never fail to show up in the finals. Just can't manage to get it up for round 1 doe.

[Ca$H]

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Finals Record does not matter... It's irrelevant. If you lose, lose in the Finals. Make it the furthest possible. Loosing before is worse. If anything, titles matter... going 6/9 is better than going 6/6. Same amount of titles with more finals appearances.

Jerry West is one of the greatest finals performers ever, right up there with Jordan/Shaq, and he's 1-8 in the Finals...
I had this particular example in mind when even guys like DonDadda were like "Jerry West? Don't know about that guy... He's 1-8 in the Finals" :facepalm

Okay then...

Jerry West 1963 NBA finals; 29.5ppg / 6.8rpg / 4.5apg on 49%

Lack of killer instinct.

Jerry West 1967 NBA finals: 33.9ppg / 6.4rpg / 5.1apg on 51.5% FG.

Just didn

[Beastmode88]

How the fcuk do bran stans defend his 2011 finals performance? :biggums: What excuse are you guys gonna use for that? Refs? Deferred to Wade? If you convince me I'll put bron over mj.

[BigTicket]

Losing in the finals is obviously better than losing before the finals. Anyone seriously trying to argue otherwise has to be at least semi-retarded.

I've never seen anyone in other sports try to argue that a silver medal is worse than not even making it onto the podium.

[Brokenbeat]

Why sweat fools who can't hold down a legitimate basketball discussion? Haven't you seen how badly threads have been getting wrecked when they try? :oldlol: Been a few already today, they've fallen right off the main page.


Clear your inbox too.

That's what RealGM is for.

People come here to slum it, and the mods like it that way (apparently).

[TheCorporation]

Technically it should be

How many Final MVPs you won

vs

How many years you were in the league

So Bron would be:

2 for 11

Kobe,

2 for 18 (or 5 for 18 if you want to gift him his Shaq backpack rings, I say no, though. Sorry Kobe kids. If we are talking about alpha elites, we need to credit Finals MVPs, not people riding the coat tails of another man's success)

Jordan,

6 for 15 (That won't be beat, I can't see someone winning 6 Finals MVPs in 15 seasons)

Duncan,

3 for 17

In summary, we take Finals MVPs and compare to the seasons they played. Clearly the best parameter. As obviously mentioned, it is more of an accomplishment to lose in the Finals than the 1st round, or even miss the playoffs. Even idiots know this much. So, in Summary:

Jordan 6 for 15 GOAT
Duncan 3 for 17
Kobe 2 for 18
LBJ 2 for 11
Magic 3 for 13 (Great win percentage)
Kareem 2 for 20
Bird for 2 for 13

etc.

If Bron can win one more Finals MVP in the next 6 years he will surpass Duncan. He has obviously already passed Kobe. Too easy to nail these Kobe kids down when they try to bring up 2/5. :rockon:

2/11 (18%) > 2/18 (11%)

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

See, now we're getting somewhere... We're talking about his actual play, which makes much more sense.

His play in '07 was underwhelming, but I see plenty reasons for a "pass".. First and main one being, they didn't have a chance to begin with.

He f*cked up 2011.. no excuse. And now to 2014, again, I think he played fine... Reminded me of Shaq's '04 finals, which no one blames him for, either... In fact the stats are very identical, both loosing 1-4, both times their sidekick having an abysmal series.

If you don't want to hand out an '07 pass to a 22 y/o on a bum (srsly) team, okay.. It's a miracle they made the finals, but okay. Then you're left with 2 bad finals series, and 3 great ones.. Fine to me.

So blaming him for one series, the "2/5" looks wrong, really wrong.. The team record doesn't do him justice. Feel me?

There's a difference between saying LeBron (and only him) is responsible for 3/5 finals losses AND pointing out his record in the finals, which, in a vacuum, is factually correct.

For me personally, I think his play hurt his teams in 2007 and 2011. This past finals, dude got his stats, but if you watched that series, his play was REALLY sporadic. I dont blame him, but I dont absolve him of it either.

I think we can both agree, LeBron's play in the finals, as a whole, has been pretty average.

[SouBeachTalents]

Technically it should be

How many Final MVPs you won

vs

How many years you were in the league

So Bron would be:

2 for 11

Kobe,

2 for 18 (or 5 for 18 if you want to gift him his Shaq backpack rings, I say no, though. Sorry Kobe kids. If we are talking about alpha elites, we need to credit Finals MVPs, not people riding the coat tails of another man's success)

Jordan,

6 for 15 (That won't be beat, I can't see someone winning 6 Finals MVPs in 15 seasons)

Duncan,

3 for 17

In summary, we take Finals MVPs and compare to the seasons they played. Clearly the best parameter. As obviously mentioned, it is more of an accomplishment to lose in the Finals than the 1st round, or even miss the playoffs. Even idiots know this much. So, in Summary:

Jordan 6 for 15 GOAT
Duncan 3 for 17
Kobe 2 for 18
LBJ 2 for 11
Magic 3 for 13 (Great win percentage)
Kareem 2 for 20
Bird for 2 for 13

etc.

If Bron can win one more Finals MVP in the next 6 years he will surpass Duncan. He has obviously already passed Kobe. Too easy to nail these Kobe kids down when they try to bring up 2/5. :rockon:

Russell would have been something like 7 for 15

[ArbitraryWater]

How the fcuk do bran stans defend his 2011 finals performance? :biggums: What excuse are you guys gonna use for that? Refs? Deferred to Wade? If you convince me I'll put bron over mj.

No one except peak pauk is trying to defend it :confusedshrug:

[TheCorporation]

Losing in the finals is obviously better than losing before the finals. Anyone seriously trying to argue otherwise has to be at least semi-retarded.

I've never seen anyone in other sports try to argue that a silver medal is worse than not even making it onto the podium.

Good point, and I touched on that in my post above. Feel free to quote it and share so that people who never understood this can finally realize what we're saying.

[TheCorporation]

No one except peak pauk is trying to defend it :confusedshrug:

LOL :lol @ Peak Pauk

Yeah, you can't really defend LBJ for his 2011 Finals performance. But he has since made up for it. See: 2012 EPIC Finals Run including epic game 6 in Boston, and 2013 run including epic Finals game 7 and.

[TheCorporation]

Russell would have been something like 7 for 15

I think he has 0 Finals MVPs. Lemme go check doe...


brb gunna googlez it

[DonDadda59]

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Finals Record does not matter... It's irrelevant. If you lose, lose in the Finals. Make it the furthest possible. Loosing before is worse. If anything, titles matter... going 6/9 is better than going 6/6. Same amount of titles with more finals appearances.

Jerry West is one of the greatest finals performers ever, right up there with Jordan/Shaq, and he's 1-8 in the Finals...
I had this particular example in mind when even guys like DonDadda were like "Jerry West? Don't know about that guy... He's 1-8 in the Finals" :facepalm

Okay then...

Jerry West 1963 NBA finals; 29.5ppg / 6.8rpg / 4.5apg on 49%

Lack of killer instinct.

Jerry West 1967 NBA finals: 33.9ppg / 6.4rpg / 5.1apg on 51.5% FG.

Just didn

[SouBeachTalents]

I think he has 0 Finals MVPs. Lemme go check doe...


brb gunna googlez it

:facepalm WOULD have been 7/14

[stalkerforlife]

2/5 with two of those losses with a stacked team.

Straight facts.

[SouBeachTalents]

2/5 with two of those losses with a stacked team.

Straight facts.

Wade & Bosh balled outrageous in the Finals this year

[Kukoc]

It does.

Let it go.

Jordan is 6 for 6 with 6 finals mvp.
The GOAT.

Nobody has done anything like that.

Russell is the greatest winner, but Jordan is the greatest player

[TheCorporation]

There's a difference between saying LeBron (and only him) is responsible for 3/5 finals losses AND pointing out his record in the finals, which, in a vacuum, is factually correct.

For me personally, I think his play hurt his teams in 2007 and 2011. This past finals, dude got his stats, but if you watched that series, his play was REALLY sporadic. I dont blame him, but I dont absolve him of it either.

I think we can both agree, LeBron's play in the finals, as a whole, has been pretty average.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vd_zVJKziTE/TO_Ow5GbxoI/AAAAAAAAA8U/jbZ7VoM23yw/s1600/mandy%2Bp.jpg

I wont do the research, I'm sure someone else can, and they are much better at it than I am, but, what LBJ did in this years finals alone is something that is unlikely paralleled by many. I bet you'd be very hard pressed to find many people average this line in the NBA Finals:

28.2 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.0 apg, 2.0 spg on 57%

Seriously, how many players do you think averaged that in a Finals series?

28-8-4-2 on 57%

? Is this how great LeBron is? He does something that probably wasn't done more than 5 times in NBA history and it's just "average." Never mind the two years he won it all...Average, too, I assume? :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

http://i1.wp.com/kathleencaron.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Princess-bride-image.jpg?resize=300%2C300

I wont do the research, I'm sure someone else can, and they are much better at it than I am, but, what LBJ did in this years finals alone is something that is unlikely paralleled by many. I bet you'd be very hard pressed to find many people average this line in the NBA Finals:

28.2 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.0 apg, 2.0 spg on 57%

Seriously, how many players do you think averaged that in a Finals series?

28-8-4-2 on 57%

? Is this how great LeBron is? He does something that probably wasn't done more than 5 times in NBA history and it's just "average." Never mind the two years he won it all...Average, too, I assume? :lol

Kobe in every Finals appearance

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vd_zVJKziTE/TO_Ow5GbxoI/AAAAAAAAA8U/jbZ7VoM23yw/s1600/mandy%2Bp.jpg

I wont do the research, I'm sure someone else can, and they are much better at it than I am, but, what LBJ did in this years finals alone is something that is unlikely paralleled by many. I bet you'd be very hard pressed to find many people average this line in the NBA Finals:

28.2 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.0 apg, 2.0 spg on 57%

Seriously, how many players do you think averaged that in a Finals series?

28-8-4-2 on 57%

? Is this how great LeBron is? He does something that probably wasn't done more than 5 times in NBA history and it's just "average." Never mind the two years he won it all...Average, too, I assume? :lol

I was referring to his play in ALL finals, hence "as a whole".

:confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

Using my name to legitimize your bullshit? :biggums:


Name-dropping ass nigguh :coleman:

http://i.gyazo.com/ed414948325ae64076c96d57dec0d4e3.png

:coleman:

Just saying, didn't expect you to go along with the casual bs

[J Shuttlesworth]

Kobe in every Finals appearance
http://i.imgur.com/lACFbw4.png

[SouBeachTalents]

http://i.imgur.com/lACFbw4.png

All Shaq's fault

[TheCorporation]

Kobe in every Finals appearance

Kobe hasn't shot above .469 in his ENTIRE career in ANY season. Not one. You tellin' me he shot 57% in a Finals series?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

The things I read. Keeps me comin' back at times, I tell ya. Someone has to teach these kids.

##NEWS FLASH## for the kid new to bball: SouBeachTalents

I would venture a guess that nearly every NBA Finals performer has shot below Bron's 57%. So, let me break it down for you since you seem very slow:

FIRST: start with finding a player that shot 57% or better, and then see if they scored 28 ppg or better. Like I said, I highly doubt you will find many.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe hasn't shot above .469 in his ENTIRE career in ANY season. Not one. You tellin' me he shot 57% in a Finals series?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

The things I read. Keeps me comin' back at times, I tell ya. Someone has to teach these kids.

Not just one, seven

[Magic 32]

LOL :lol @ Peak Pauk

Yeah, you can't really defend LBJ for his 2011 Finals performance. But he has since made up for it. See: 2012 EPIC Finals Run including epic game 6 in Boston, and 2013 run including epic Finals game 7

No, that made up for his play in the previous 6 games of the 2013 finals.

Just imagine Kobe at age 28 against the 2013 Spurs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz-QyjiM5Ws

Lebron is one lucky ... .. . .....

[Beastmode88]

No one except peak pauk is trying to defend it :confusedshrug:

Someone link a thread while my popcorn heats up.

[TheCorporation]

I was referring to his play in ALL finals, hence "as a whole".

:confusedshrug:

Even during his worst year, 2011, he put up good numbers. Now, for Bron, no, he put up bad numbers, but as a #2 guy (he was #2 to Wade that series) he put up great numbers.

18-7-7 on 48% with 1.6 spg

Yes, those numbers aren't good for Bron. He should be averaging closer to 25 ppg (at least). But 18-7-7 on 48% with 1.6 spg still is not AVERAGE, as you so called it.

I bet you won't find many players that averaged even 18-7-7 on 48% during modern basketball era. Pippen is the first player that comes to mind that might've done it. Let me check real quick:

Pippen has done it, and probably one of the few. (Is Pippen "average?")

Don't get me wrong, for LBJ, yes, not great numbers. But putting up Prime Pippen numbers during your worst NBA Finals outing isn't the worst thing that could happen to you.

Should we check Kobe's worst NBA Finals series?

2004

22.6 ppg - 4.4 apg - 2.8 rpg - 38% FG (I'm not making that up, he really shot 43 for 113 for the series :eek:

[DonDadda59]

http://i.gyazo.com/ed414948325ae64076c96d57dec0d4e3.png

:coleman:

Just saying, didn't expect you to go along with the casual bs

Now you're starting to creep me out bruh. Posts from 2009?

On some 'Single White Female' bullshit...

[TheCorporation]

No, that made up for his play in the previous 6 games of the 2013 finals.

Just imagine Kobe at age 28 against the 2013 Spurs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz-QyjiM5Ws

Lebron is one lucky ... .. . .....

We saw what Kobe did without Shaq. When Shaq left town this was Kobe's next three years:

2005: Missed the entire playoffs
2006: 1st round exit
2007: 1st round exit

[SouBeachTalents]

Even during his worst year, 2011, he put up good numbers. Now, for Bron, no, he put up bad numbers, but as a #2 guy (he was #2 to Wade that series) he put up great numbers.

18-7-7 on 48% with 1.6 spg

Yes, those numbers aren't good for Bron. He should be averaging closer to 25 ppg (at least). But 18-7-7 on 48% with 1.6 spg still is not AVERAGE, as you so called it.

I bet you won't find many players that averaged even 18-7-7 on 48% during modern basketball era. Pippen is the first player that comes to mind that might've done it. Let me check real quick:

Pippen has done it, and probably one of the few. (Is Pippen "average?")

Don't get me wrong, for LBJ, yes, not great numbers. But putting up Prime Pippen numbers during your worst NBA Finals outing isn't the worst thing that could happen to you.

Should we check Kobe's worst NBA Finals series?

2004

22.6 ppg - 4.4 apg - 2.8 rpg - 38% FG (I'm not making that up, he really shot 43 for 113 for the series :eek:

There's no defending LeBron's 2011 Finals performance He was a ghost in the 4th quarter in 4 consecutive competitive games, and he honestly singlehandedly cost the Heat the title in that series

[TheCorporation]

There's no defending LeBron's 2011 Finals performance He was a ghost in the 4th quarter in 4 consecutive competitive games, and he honestly singlehandedly cost the Heat the title in that series

Read my son.

Read more around here, type less. You will learn a thing or two...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Corporation, those are average numbers for LeBron. Below average actually.

That's the point.


Now you're starting to creep me out bruh. Posts from 2009?

On some 'Single White Female' bullshit...

You're Jordan to Arbitrary's Kobe.

Bean has "Come Fly with Me" remastered, Arb has your posts saved to his notepad :bowdown:

[ArbitraryWater]

Now you're starting to creep me out bruh. Posts from 2009?

On some 'Single White Female' bullshit...


You're Jordan to Arbitrary's Kobe.

Bean has "Come Fly with Me" remastered, Arb has your posts saved to his notepad :bowdown:

:oldlol:

What's more likely, me googling DonDadda or some "greatest playoff performers" ish? I remembered your post when making the thread, though... and luckily I did find it :banana:

Can't accuse me of nothing, boy :pimp:

[SouBeachTalents]

Read my son.

Read more around here, type less. You will learn a thing or two...

I certainly won't learn shit if I read what you had to say on this topic. It almost seems like you didn't even watch the 2011 Finals, if you did, you'd stop trying to defend LeBron like he wasn't ****ing terrible. Wade & Bosh did what was asked of them in that series, LeBron came up far short, that's the biggest reason they lost. Why are you trying to spin that series like he wasn't bad? It's preposterous

[TheCorporation]

kuniva, you're right, I agree his one playoff series he put up average numbers (for him, not compared to the rest of the league). But to say his Finals appearances have been average is well...haterish :P

[TheCorporation]

I certainly won't learn shit if I read what you had to say on this topic. It almost seems like you didn't even watch the 2011 Finals, if you did, you'd stop trying to defend LeBron like he wasn't ****ing terrible. Wade & Bosh did what was asked of them in that series, LeBron came up far short, that's the biggest reason they lost. Why are you trying to spin that series like he wasn't bad? It's preposterous

Reading comprehension > You

Welcome to the forums, there is a lot for new kids to learn. Like I said, READ more, POST less. These kids...

[dubeta]

Bran is 2/5 and 4/11

Kobe is 2/7 1/18

/thread

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:oldlol:

What's more likely, me googling DonDadda or some "greatest playoff performers" ish? I remembered your post when making the thread, though... and luckily I did find it :banana:

Can't accuse me of nothing, boy :pimp:

All jokes, my friend :cheers:

[Magic 32]

Losing with HCA is a better measurement.

Lebron = 3 (2009, 2010, 2011)

Kobe = 2 (2004, 2011)

MJ = 0

And if not for Jesus, Lebron would have lost 4 out of 5 seasons against teams with HCA.

At his peak :roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

All jokes, my friend :cheers:

No doubt.. Cracked up at the notepad part :oldlol: :cheers:

[SouBeachTalents]

Reading comprehension > You

Welcome to the forums, there is a lot for new kids to learn. Like I said, READ more, POST less. These kids...

I did read what you had to say, trying to justify a NINE point drop off by saying he played like "prime Pippen" in those finals, even though prime Pippen put up better numbers in every Finals in that first 3peat. Did Pippen in his prime ever have a 3 game Finals stretch of 14, 9, 7 on 39%? But I guess past his prime Jason Kidd stats are acceptable for LeBron in his prime in the Finals

[ArbitraryWater]

Losing with HCA is a better measurement.

Lebron = 3 (2009, 2010, 2011)

Kobe = 2 (2004, 2011)

MJ = 0

And if not for Jesus, Lebron would have lost 4 out of 5 seasons against teams with HCA.

At his peak :roll:

But that's because Kobe has won HC series' where he dropped 24/4/5 on 41%...
Or 24/5/6 on 39%.... Or 26/5/5 on 35%.... Or 25 ppg on 41%...Or 20/5/5 on 44%.... Or 16/4/4 on 37%......#ShaqEffect #OthersDontGetAwayWithThat #LongHashtag

[dubeta]

Losing with HCA is a better measurement.

Lebron = 3 (2009, 2010, 2011)

Kobe = 2 (2004, 2011)

MJ = 0

And if not for Jesus, Lebron would have lost 4 out of 5 seasons against teams with HCA.

At his peak :roll:

lebron also won a championship without HCA has kobe?

[Magic 32]

lebron also won a championship without HCA has kobe?

Lockout + no HCA= meh

[DonDadda59]

You're Jordan to Arbitrary's Kobe.

Bean has "Come Fly with Me" remastered, Arb has your posts saved to his notepad :bowdown:

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/d8/d835336b60135254c6d9f1277d65f69c43ba3517880d38971c f87e31e0c39d98.jpg


What's more likely, me googling DonDadda or some "greatest playoff performers" ish?

That one.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3263/2448558472_d00dc7d48c.jpg

[SamuraiSWISH]

Losing in the finals is obviously better than losing before the finals. Anyone seriously trying to argue otherwise has to be at least semi-retarded.
Not when you're using championships as a guage comparing all-time greats. Having a team good enough to support an all-time great to get to the Finals, then losing on the biggest stage ... money on the table games? Yea, that counts.

And no it isn't better to lose before the Finals in that context. Too many variables to account for comparing seasons of elite players when they weren't able to get to the championship. It's usually cause they quite frankly didn't have a supporting cast good enough to help.

What did they do when they had all the proper tools to win is what the NBA Finals record gauges fairly accurately.

[DFish24]

Bran stans still butthurt about their idol's finals record:lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Not when you're using championships as a guage comparing all-time greats. Having a team good enough to support an all-time great to get to the Finals, then losing on the biggest stage ... money on the table games? Yea, that counts.

And no it isn't better to lose before the Finals in that context. Too many variables to account for comparing seasons of elite players when they weren't able to get to the championship. It's usually cause they quite frankly didn't have a supporting cast good enough to help.

What did they do when they had all the proper tools to win is what the NBA Finals record gauges fairly accurately.

But his cast wasn't good enough to win in '07 and '14 :lol

[SamuraiSWISH]

But his cast wasn't good enough to win in '07 and '14 :lol
2007? True. 2014? STFU and take his dick out your mouth.

[dubeta]

But his cast wasn't good enough to win in '07 and '14 :lol

this is true, why hate on a 1 man team, does anyone say 0/1 for A.I??

LeBron is 2/3

Jordan is 6/6

Kobe is 2/7 (FMVP remember)

Not bad is it?

[ArbitraryWater]

2007? True. 2014? STFU and take his dick out your mouth.

chill :roll:

Wade:
G2: 14 points vs Spurs
G4: 10 points on 3-13 23%
G5: 11 points on 4-12 33%

G4 after 3 quarters: (Heat down 24 - Game over) 4 points on 1-10
Wade goes padding for 6 points and ups his efficiency

G5 after 3 quarters: (Heat down 19 - Game over) 8 points on 3-11
Hits a 3 in garbage time


Team as a whole in 2 deciders:

Game 4: 22-54 41% (Through 3 Q's; at that point it was over: 10-36 28% + 8 TO's.......... Sure they scored nicely in the 4th down 20+ when the game was over.)

Game 5: 20-54 37%

Nah.. same as '07

[SamuraiSWISH]

chill :roll:

Wade:
G2: 14 points vs Spurs
G4: 10 points on 3-13 23%
G5: 11 points on 4-12 33%

G4 after 3 quarters: (Heat down 24 - Game over) 4 points on 1-10
Wade goes padding for 6 points and ups his efficiency

G5 after 3 quarters: (Heat down 19 - Game over) 8 points on 3-11
Hits a 3 in garbage time


Team as a whole in 2 deciders:

Game 4: 22-54 41% (Through 3 Q's; at that point it was over: 10-36 28% + 8 TO's.......... Sure they scored nicely in the 4th down 20+ when the game was over.)

Game 5: 20-54 37%

Nah.. same as '07
Did LeBron play above his averages to compensate?

[ArbitraryWater]

Did LeBron play above his averages to compensate?

Yea.. 28/8 on 57%

game 1: 25 points, let the game come to him, shot efficiently, up 4, gets cramp, game taken from him...
game 2 his best finals performance ever (?) dominant takeover, 35/10 on 64%, last one to do it is Shaq, clutch shots and pass to Bosh.. everything
game 3: great 14 point 1st quarter, weak sauce afterwards..
game 4: 28/8 on 59%... scored 19 3RD Q points on 7-9, did everything possible to get them back in it, yet the lead went UP from down 19 to down 24... rest of team 2 points on 1-9 in the 3rd.
game 5: 31/10/5 on 48%, 17 point 1st quarter yet only up 7, while the Spurs shot 29% and he held Parker to 1 of 11 through 3 Q's, played the first 41 minutes, gets a rest and no point in later checking back in..


How do you want to say he didn't compensate? Besides game 3 he did everything he could.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Did LeBron play above his averages to compensate?

Yup he ramped up his turnovers and turned down his assist.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Not when you're using championships as a guage comparing all-time greats. Having a team good enough to support an all-time great to get to the Finals, then losing on the biggest stage ... money on the table games? Yea, that counts.

And no it isn't better to lose before the Finals in that context. Too many variables to account for comparing seasons of elite players when they weren't able to get to the championship. It's usually cause they quite frankly didn't have a supporting cast good enough to help.

What did they do when they had all the proper tools to win is what the NBA Finals record gauges fairly accurately.

But using how many championships is not very good way of comparison, its better to compare their relative level of play compared to the competition. I mean, thats like saying in the Olympics it's better to not even have been on the podium than to get a bronze or silver medal

[Anaximandro1]

Bron and Kobe are overrated ... Jordan is light years ahead of them.

I still believe that Bron is better than Kobe. The difference is Kobe had better teammates.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bwmP0GBZ5rA/U8GsrZYkZ0I/AAAAAAAADUY/crPlXP_6nrc/s1600/1.jpg

[Roundball_Rock]

:lol at saying the East was weak and therefore making the Finals four consecutive years is not an accomplishment and then turning around and saying the Cavs/Heat should have win because if you reach the Finals it means you are capable of winning (because all teams that make the Finals/Super Bowl must be approximately equal).

LeBron haters are comical in how they contort themselves to diminish LeBron's greatness. Top 1-5 all-time when it is all said and done. You :mad: ?

[LAZERUSS]

Finals Record does not matter... It's irrelevant. If you lose, lose in the Finals. Make it the furthest possible. Loosing before is worse. If anything, titles matter... going 6/9 is better than going 6/6. Same amount of titles with more finals appearances.

Jerry West is one of the greatest finals performers ever, right up there with Jordan/Shaq, and he's 1-8 in the Finals...
I had this particular example in mind when even guys like DonDadda were like "Jerry West? Don't know about that guy... He's 1-8 in the Finals" :facepalm

Okay then...

Jerry West 1963 NBA finals; 29.5ppg / 6.8rpg / 4.5apg on 49%

Lack of killer instinct.

Jerry West 1967 NBA finals: 33.9ppg / 6.4rpg / 5.1apg on 51.5% FG.

Just didn’t have that clutch gene.

Jerry West 1968 NBA finals: 31.3ppg / 5.8rpg / 5.3apg on 51.4% FG

Didn’t want it enough.

Jerry West 1969 NBA finals: 37.9ppg / 4.7rpg / 7.4apg on 49%.

Choker.

Jerry West 1970 NBA finals: 31.3ppg / 3.4rpg / 7.7apg on 45%

Weak era bum.



Instead of typing away on an Individual's TEAM finals record, detail his Play... If you want to rate the Individual, and not the teams he's been on...

You forgot one...

1972 Finals: 19.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 8.8 apg, .325 FG%

Oh wait, he WON a ring that year.

Obviously his teams played much better when he was awful.

Moral of the story...it is better to win ONE Finals, while playing badly, than to lose SEVEN playing brilliantly.

[ArbitraryWater]

You forgot one...

1972 Finals: 19.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 8.8 apg, .325 FG%

Oh wait, he WON a ring that year.

Obviously his teams played much better when he was awful.

Moral of the story...it is better to win ONE Finals, while playing badly, than to lose SEVEN playing brilliantly.

Brilliant point :applause:

[TheCorporation]

I still believe that Bron is better than Kobe. The difference is Kobe had better teammates.


And grass is green, and the sky is blue :P

This is common basketball knowledge, only Kobestans won't admit this.

[The-Legend-24]

6/6, 5/7 > 2/5

[poido123]

2/5 :applause:

[red1]

6/6, 5/7 > 2/5
6/6 > 2/5 > 2/7 :lol

[The-Legend-24]

6/6 > 2/5 > 2/7 :lol
Location: Canada. :lol

[red1]

Location: Canada. :lol
dats right :pimp:


back on topic 2/5 >> 2/

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm sure Canada is awesome :confusedshrug:

[TheMarkMadsen]

dats right :pimp:


back on topic 2/5 >> 2/

You look dumb saying 2/7 when 5/7 of those trips equaled championships.


It would be like saying Kareem is 2/10

[LBJ4MVP23]

ISH where losing early because you are too much of a scrub to even get to the finals, is better than losing in the finals.

Do you know why that is? Because Kobe in his prime couldnt make the playoffs one year and gave up in a game 7 first round game the other and lost. In order to make the kobe is better than LBJ narrative work you need to come up with this kobe-vortex bs where logic goes out the window.

Thats like saying its better to lose in the olympic qualifiers than win silver. The average kobe fan is 100% a democrat. No chance they arent voting pro-hand outs.

[ArbitraryWater]

You look dumb saying 2/7 when 5/7 of those trips equaled championships.


It would be like saying Kareem is 2/10

Again, Kobe didn't really do much to get those W's in the finals record :lol

The standart for him was shooting 40%

[red1]

You look dumb saying 2/7 when 5/7 of those trips equaled championships.


It would be like saying Kareem is 2/10
sup bro. I am just keeping it scientific accounting for variables like shaquille oneal and phil jackson. besides finals mvp ratio Is a more accurate measure of GOATness in the first place

[The-Legend-24]

dats right :pimp:

Shit, the GOAT rapper is from canada. my bad.

[Nowitness]

Jerry West.

Another debatable top 30 guy. Choker, didn't have the clutch gene, didn't want it enough and a weak bum era.

[knicksman]

so bran fans wouldve rather have 2/11 instead of 2/5. How stupid you guys can be

[TheMarkMadsen]

Again, Kobe didn't really do much to get those W's in the finals record :lol

The standart for him was shooting 40%

And you look even more dumb

Kobe had a run to the finals during that time where he put up better numbers than prime Lebron has ever put up on his way to the finals

32/7/6 while not losing a game..

Then the next year he puts up 27/6/5 on 51% in the finals.

[TheMarkMadsen]

sup bro. I am just keeping it scientific accounting for variables like shaquille oneal and phil jackson. besides finals mvp ratio Is a more accurate measure of GOATness in the first place

No you're just being an idiot.

If that's true then why is KAJ considered a goat candidate when he's 2/10 in FMVPs?

[ArbitraryWater]

Okay, thread had a good run... 10 pages deep, then MarkMadsen appeared..

abandon, guys

[SouBeachTalents]

so bran fans wouldve rather have 2/11 instead of 2/5. How stupid you guys can be

So would you have preferred Allen Houston missing that shot to beat the Heat in '99 so the Knicks wouldn't end up losing in the Finals?

[knicksman]

So would you have preferred Allen Houston missing that shot to beat the Heat in '99 so the Knicks wouldn't end up losing in the Finals?
:biggums:

losing in the finals and losing in the first round is still 0/1. But if were basing only on finals appearance, you realize it becomes less embarrassing for lebron. So you bran stans should be thankful that were just posting 2/5 instead of 2/11.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Okay, thread had a good run... 10 pages deep, then MarkMadsen appeared..

abandon, guys

Of course you can't respond to what I said after getting a dose of ether.

Typical bran stan, abandon ship when things get tough.

[SouBeachTalents]

:biggums:

losing in the finals and losing in the first round is still 0/1. But if were basing only on finals appearance, you realize it becomes less embarrassing for lebron. So you bran stans should be thankful that were just posting 2/5 instead of 2/11.

So you'd rather have Houston miss that shot, lose by 1 to the hated Heat, then miss out on the Hawks sweep, LJ's 4 point play, beating Reggie and the rival Pacers, clinching the conference championship in MSG and becoming the first 8 seed in league history to make the Finals? Got it

[knicksman]

So you'd rather have Houston miss that shot, lose by 1 to the hated Heat, then miss out on the Hawks sweep, LJ's 4 point play, beating Reggie and the rival Pacers, clinching the conference championship in MSG and becoming the first 8 seed in league history to make the Finals? Got it

LOL youre not understanding what im trying to say brah.

[Lebronxrings]

next person that says 2/5 is getting their ass kicked. You people are seriously annoying, *******s.

[red1]

No you're just being an idiot.

If that's true then why is KAJ considered a goat candidate when he's 2/10 in FMVPs?
How is that being an idiot? Finals mvp ratio is just as relevant as the ratio of finals won. It's a team sport mah negro

[TheMarkMadsen]

How is that being an idiot? Finals mvp ratio is just as relevant as the ratio of finals won. It's a team sport mah negro

It's not just as relevant :facepalm :facepalm

If it was so relevant then KAJ wouldn't be a goat candidate since he is "2/10"

In reality Kareem is 6/10, and his legacy would be a hell of a lot different if he was 2/10 in finals wins & losses instead of being 6/10.

All that matter is winning, and don't play stupid and try to bring up Robert Horry, because winning as an elite player is what matters when comparing truly all time greats.

Does Bird only have 2 rings? does Kareem only have 2, Duncan 3?

Nobody outside of ISH is going to give 2 shits about those guys "FMVP ratio" because of how those players performed. It's not like they won any of those rings in the fashion of a T Mac in 2013.

At the end of the day it's about how much you won, which is why ABSOLUTLY NOBODY brings up Kareem only having 2 FMVPs to his 6 rings as an argument against him.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It's not just as relevant :facepalm :facepalm

If it was so relevant then KAJ wouldn't be a goat candidate since he is "2/10"

In reality Kareem is 6/10, and his legacy would be a hell of a lot different if he was 2/10 in finals wins & losses instead of being 6/10.

All that matter is winning, and don't play stupid and try to bring up Robert Horry, because winning as an elite player is what matters when comparing truly all time greats.

Does Bird only have 2 rings? does Kareem only have 2, Duncan 3?

Nobody outside of ISH is going to give 2 shits about those guys "FMVP ratio" because of how those players performed. It's not like they won any of those rings in the fashion of a T Mac in 2013.

At the end of the day it's about how much you won, which is why ABSOLUTLY NOBODY brings up Kareem only having 2 FMVPs to his 6 rings as an argument against him.

How you play should be the #1 factor, but I like this post. Repped.

[ArbitraryWater]

It's not just as relevant :facepalm :facepalm

If it was so relevant then KAJ wouldn't be a goat candidate since he is "2/10"

In reality Kareem is 6/10, and his legacy would be a hell of a lot different if he was 2/10 in finals wins & losses instead of being 6/10.

All that matter is winning, and don't play stupid and try to bring up Robert Horry, because winning as an elite player is what matters when comparing truly all time greats.

Does Bird only have 2 rings? does Kareem only have 2, Duncan 3?

Nobody outside of ISH is going to give 2 shits about those guys "FMVP ratio" because of how those players performed. It's not like they won any of those rings in the fashion of a T Mac in 2013.

At the end of the day it's about how much you won, which is why ABSOLUTLY NOBODY brings up Kareem only having 2 FMVPs to his 6 rings as an argument against him.

Agreed... It's basically about how you play.

[red1]

It's not just as relevant :facepalm :facepalm

If it was so relevant then KAJ wouldn't be a goat candidate since he is "2/10"

In reality Kareem is 6/10, and his legacy would be a hell of a lot different if he was 2/10 in finals wins & losses instead of being 6/10.

All that matter is winning, and don't play stupid and try to bring up Robert Horry, because winning as an elite player is what matters when comparing truly all time greats.

Does Bird only have 2 rings? does Kareem only have 2, Duncan 3?

Nobody outside of ISH is going to give 2 shits about those guys "FMVP ratio" because of how those players performed. It's not like they won any of those rings in the fashion of a T Mac in 2013.

At the end of the day it's about how much you won, which is why ABSOLUTLY NOBODY brings up Kareem only having 2 FMVPs.
Except that's not true at all. All that really matters is how good of a player you are and how much you contribute. Context matters and that is the reason why it is unreasonable to not give AI credit for 2001 despite the finals loss and is also the same reason why I dont glorify horry for his 7 rings.

[Lakers2877]

Actually, nope.. not at all.

Besides fans using the "Jordan 6/6", I've literally never heard finals record brought up... I don't know what Wilt's, Kareem's, Magic's is... I could think of it based on their appearances, but all I know right now is their amount of titles, which is the one thing people seem to care about.

Nobody has tried to explain to me "Russell is GOAT because he's 11/12"... No, "Russell is the greatest, he's won 11 titles!" .. THAT, more likely.
I didnt say it was the absolute deciding factor in a legacy dude. Chill

[deja vu]

Wilt is 2/6 in Finals and because of that he's labelled as a perennial loser and choker by many.

Can see the same for LeBron.

[PickernRoller]

King + Chosen One + Face of the NBA + 4 time league MVP + collusion + decision + Wade and Bosh + 5 Finals multiplied by PER + ref rigs + weak era + weak east + Ray Allen + lockout season + grandpa Spurs + grandpa Celtics + injured league + 2011 + Choke + Broken promise + not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4.. divided by triple double + FG% > 50% + Riley + no dunk contest + blocked twice in the all star game by grandpa Kobe = 2/5.

[Skyscraper]

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Finals Record does not matter... It's irrelevant. If you lose, lose in the Finals. Make it the furthest possible. Loosing before is worse. If anything, titles matter... going 6/9 is better than going 6/6. Same amount of titles with more finals appearances.

Jerry West is one of the greatest finals performers ever, right up there with Jordan/Shaq, and he's 1-8 in the Finals...
I had this particular example in mind when even guys like DonDadda were like "Jerry West? Don't know about that guy... He's 1-8 in the Finals" :facepalm

Okay then...

Jerry West 1963 NBA finals; 29.5ppg / 6.8rpg / 4.5apg on 49%

Lack of killer instinct.

Jerry West 1967 NBA finals: 33.9ppg / 6.4rpg / 5.1apg on 51.5% FG.

Just didn

[BallsOut]

Turrible thread, just turrible.

2/5 stars

[red1]

King + Chosen One + Face of the NBA + 4 time league MVP + collusion + decision + Wade and Bosh + 5 Finals multiplied by PER + ref rigs + weak era + weak east + Ray Allen + lockout season + grandpa Spurs + grandpa Celtics + injured league + 2011 + Choke + Broken promise + not 1, not 2, not 3.. devided by triple double + FG% > 50% + Riley = 2/5.

chucking + rape + snitching - hairline = 2/7


what up doe

http://www.westernfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/obama-smug.png

[PickernRoller]

2/7


Except for the fact that 5/7 > 2/5.

http://www.hiphopsportsreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/kobe_trophies_web.jpg

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ba/00/bf/ba00bfcd5ddd54dc098c9f182027af6a.jpg

http://chicitysportsfan.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Kobe8.jpg

[red1]

Except for the fact that 5/7 > 2/5.

http://www.hiphopsportsreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/kobe_trophies_web.jpg

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ba/00/bf/ba00bfcd5ddd54dc098c9f182027af6a.jpg

http://chicitysportsfan.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Kobe8.jpg

http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/archive/b/be/20070115203737!Hamster.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IKJpIbfczmQ/UDoD2z2yQiI/AAAAAAAAA3M/njpTOWAUCZE/s400/Funny+Animal+Smoking_3.jpg
http://bmj2k.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/3.png
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PMq4bIEfG5U/UKYKkxSdFmI/AAAAAAAAAuU/TUEobHOdhlI/s400/Smoking+Monkey.jpg

[BallsOut]

What stings more?

Bron's 2/5

or 81 points

:lol :lol

[Beastmode88]

how does every thread about kobe mj or bron always turn up to kobe vs mj vs bron?