Wiggins playing the 2, Waiters to be moved?

[Inferno]

https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/483974482286374912


David Griffin said he sees Andrew Wiggins as "a big two-guard" on Friday, which has some execs believing Cavs may look to move Dion Waiters.

:coleman:

[hawkfan]

Hawks.

[BlazerRed]

:oldlol:

[lilgodfather1]

Hopefully not. Waiters is a combo guard, and can easily man the 1 and 2. It would really shore up our bench guard rotation with Dion in the mix.

[Meticode]

This is old news. Griffin was slated on saying that, but he'll be playing SF when the season starts if they start him. Also it could just mean that Waiters stays in his six man role.

It would not surprise me if Waiters is moved though. Varejao, Jack, Thompson and Waiters are all probably available to some extend if the offer is right to upgrade either C, SF or SG depending on who's traded.

[CHi1PriDe]

Dibs, boozer for Waiters + whatever fillers. Make it happen, of we lose out on Melo :bowdown:

[El Gato Negro]

https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/483974482286374912



:coleman:
It's Tuesday, that's also taken out of context. He was talking about wiggins in his prime not this year. He was also quoted saying he matches the ball dominate guards perfectly, referring to Dion and Kyrie.

[Meticode]

Dibs, boozer for Waiters + whatever fillers. Make it happen, of we lose out on Melo :bowdown:
Cavaliers don't want Boozer. No.

[El Gato Negro]

Dibs, boozer for Waiters + whatever fillers. Make it happen, of we lose out on Melo :bowdown:
Hahaha that's good. Boozer is the only person hated more than lebron in Cleveland, in the nba anyways.

[FatComputerNerd]

I think we need to keep Waiters.

Also, Varejao is too important of a role-player to get rid of. He's about the closest thing there is to a modern-day Rodman type of player, and not keeping him would be STUPID IMO. He also seems to love it here (rare), is a MAJOR fan-favorite, and has a veteran leadership presence that we really need on the team.

[chocolatethunder]

It's Tuesday, that's also taken out of context. He was talking about wiggins in his prime not this year. He was also quoted saying he matches the ball dominate guards perfectly, referring to Dion and Kyrie.
The word is DOMINANT.

[El Gato Negro]

The word is DOMINANT.
No one cares, half this forum post on cell phones T9 does what it wants get over it!

[el gringos]

I also think his highest ceiling is defending and being defended by 2's. Waiters is best as a 6th man.


Or is this just a way to fit leBron in there

[Meticode]

I think we need to keep Waiters.

Also, Varejao is too important of a role-player to get rid of. He's about the closest thing there is to a modern-day Rodman type of player, and not keeping him would be STUPID IMO. He also seems to love it here (rare), and has a veteran leadership presence that we really need on the team.
I don't. I think if we traded him and added a starting SG or SG who is a shooter, that's more fitting for this team. Waiters and Irving has shown majority of the time they can't play together at the same time of the court. They've had two years. And Waiters CLEARLY excelled when he was in a sixth man role.

Varejao is too injury prone at this point of his career. He's on his last year of a his contract worth up to $9 million. If there's a year he's traded, it's going to be this tone.

[FatComputerNerd]

Wiggins seems like he can play at the 2 or the 3, but I see him as more of a 3.

He has the length and athleticism to guard most if not all 3's in the league, and if I'm not mistaken, is not really a pure shooter who's going to run a ton of screens and be effective as a trad. 2-guard.

This obviously doesn't mean he won't see time at the 2-spot, but I do think he's more of a natural 3 really.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Meticode]

Wiggins seems like he can play at the 2 or the 3, but I see him as more of a 3.

He has the length and athleticism to guard most if not all 3's in the league, and if I'm not mistaken, is not really a pure shooter who's going to run a ton of screens and be effective as a trad. 2-guard.

This obviously doesn't mean he won't see time at the 2-spot, but I do think he's more of a natural 3 really.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
We won't know you're wrong until we've had a healthy dose of what Blatt is going to run with this offense.

[FatComputerNerd]

I don't. I think if we traded him and added a starting SG or SG who is a shooter, that's more fitting for this team. Waiters and Irving has shown majority of the time they can't play together at the same time of the court. They've had two years. And Waiters CLEARLY excelled when he was in a sixth man role.

I see your point. I just think Waiters has too high of a ceiling to not keep him, even if we do use him as a 6th man, Ben Gordon style. He did seem to do very well in that role, and from what I understand willingly accepted it.


Varejao is too injury prone at this point of his career. He's on his last year of a his contract worth up to $9 million. If there's a year he's traded, it's going to be this tone.

You may be right. I guess from a strategic standpoint trading him might make sense, if we were to get enough in return. I think he is the last player left on the team who played with Big Z though, and was around in 'Bron's early years, so I am probably a bit emotionally biased on this one.

I do think he is a very valuable player regardless. I still remember people arguing over who was better between him and Noah. AV is of a rare breed, and players like him do not grow on trees.

[Inactive]

I don't. I think if we traded him and added a starting SG or SG who is a shooter, that's more fitting for this team. Waiters and Irving has shown majority of the time they can't play together at the same time of the court. They've had two years. And Waiters CLEARLY excelled when he was in a sixth man role.

Varejao is too injury prone at this point of his career. He's on his last year of a his contract worth up to $9 million. If there's a year he's traded, it's going to be this tone.I agree. Waiters is a fine player, but not a good fit with Kyrie. Varejao is a good player, but he's past his prime, and has struggled to stay healthy for the last 4 years.

[Meticode]

I see your point. I just think Waiters has too high of a ceiling to not keep him, even if we do use him as a 6th man, Ben Gordon style. He did seem to do very well in that role, and willingly accepted it.



You may be right. I guess from a strategic standpoint trading him might make sense, if we were to get enough in return. I think he is the last player left on the team who played with Big Z though, and was around in 'Bron's early years, so I am probably a bit emotionally biased on this one.

I do think he is a very valuable player regardless. I still remember people arguing over who was better between him and Noah. AV is of a rare breed, and players like him do not grow on trees.
I'd be more incline to keep Wild Thing if he wasn't so injury prone. He had a decent season last season, and still missed games. At this point my state of thinking is, "Let's get some value for him on the last year of his contract before his legs fall out from under him."

[Meticode]

To be clear, I have no problem with the Cavs keeping Waiters. I just want to see some improvement in him this season and I'd like to see him play on the floor with Irving.

[FatComputerNerd]

Dion Waiters Offense Highlights 2013/2014 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To0JIyG9UC0)


Why the heck would we trade this?!


The stuff about him and Kyrie not getting along is apparently BS, and two years isn't enough time to judge how they'll do together long-term.

[wally_world]

I want him on OKC, would be a good Harden replacement.

[FatComputerNerd]

I want him on OKC, would be a good Harden replacement.

You can't have him!

Plus, he plays D and will prob. end up better than Harden.


I think his value is super high, and I doubt there are many teams in the league that wouldn't want him.

We need to keep him, and develop our young core of Kyrie, Dion, Wiggins, Bennett, and Zeller.

[Meticode]

Dion Waiters Offense Highlights 2013/2014 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To0JIyG9UC0)


Why the heck would we trade this?!


The stuff about him and Kyrie not getting along is apparently BS, and two years isn't enough time to judge how they'll do together long-term.
We'll see. I'm not saying trade him right now. I want to keep him, but if the same bullshit goes on that's went on the last two seasons then I don't care what highlights he puts up if it's no translating to wins.

[KevinDurant35]

Does Waiters play any defense? If so, send him to OKC.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Dion Waiters Offense Highlights 2013/2014 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To0JIyG9UC0)


Why the heck would we trade this?!


The stuff about him and Kyrie not getting along is apparently BS, and two years isn't enough time to judge how they'll do together long-term.

How is it 'apparently bs'?

Just multiple different sportswriters were making shit up for no reason?

Luol Deng just had a shooting slump and decided to make up a story about the locker room being awful?

It's pretty clear to anyone not wearing maroon-tinted glasses that Waiters is something of a locker room cancer. He needs to go for that reason alone.

Not to mention the fact that he's really not that good.

[1~Gibson~1]

The 2 and 3 are virtually the same anyway. If youre not a point guard or big man, youre a wing.

[1~Gibson~1]

How is it 'apparently bs'?

Just multiple different sportswriters were making shit up for no reason?

Luol Deng just had a shooting slump and decided to make up a story about the locker room being awful?

It's pretty clear to anyone not wearing maroon-tinted glasses that Waiters is something of a locker room cancer. He needs to go for that reason alone.

Not to mention the fact that he's really not that good.
.I dont think we're actively looking to trade Dion but then again I wouldnt be suprised.

[Meticode]

Does Waiters play any defense? If so, send him to OKC.
There's nothing the Thunder offer that would make the Cavs any better. It'd have to be something like Lamb+Adams for Waiters or something close to that.

[Meticode]

.I dont think we're actively looking to trade Dion but then again I wouldnt be suprised.
Not specifically no, but I bet he's one of the movable players and not off-limited. Along with Varejao, Jack and Thompson-or-Bennett.

[KevinDurant35]

There's nothing the Thunder offer that would make the Cavs any better. It'd have to be something like Lamb+Adams for Waiters or something close to that.
Come on man, you just got Andrew Wiggins (the best player in the world), stop trying to be so greedy.

[Meticode]

Come on man, you just got Andrew Wiggins (the best player in the world), stop trying to be so greedy.
Waiters was the second best bench scorer in the league last year. LoL Greedy my ass.

[KevinDurant35]

PJ3+Lamb for Waiters........That's fair right?

[FatComputerNerd]

We still have Karasev too, right?

I wouldn't mind seeing him getting big minutes at the 2-spot, especially when Dion is running point while Kyrie rests.

Right now we have so much young talent, a new coach, and really need to see how the puzzle pieces all fit together before we rush into trading away young guys who have a ton of potential.

[Cavalier]

F*ck that, I hope to God they don't trade Dion. Too much potential to let him go. See if he can work with Kyrie in this new system. These guys are still so young.

[El Gato Negro]

How is it 'apparently bs'?

Just multiple different sportswriters were making shit up for no reason?

Luol Deng just had a shooting slump and decided to make up a story about the locker room being awful?

It's pretty clear to anyone not wearing maroon-tinted glasses that Waiters is something of a locker room cancer. He needs to go for that reason alone.

Not to mention the fact that he's really not that good.
deng said kyrie and dion get along fine. the media said otherwise http://collegespun.com/extra-credit/nba-2/luol-deng-doesnt-believe-in-the-irving-waiters-feud-rumors-they-love-each-other-they-can-play-together#

[morbius]

Waiters to Atlanta for Korver and a pick.

[RedBlackAttack]

Kennedy's opinion getting its own thread. :facepalm

I rarely agree with anything he says. And, a lot of people think Wiggins is still growing. I really doubt he'll be a SG longterm. The list of players who are 6-9 and spent their career at the 2 is basically nonexistent.

Waiters shouldn't be moved unless we get a damn good deal. He was one of the lone bright spots for the Cavs last season. There were long stretches where he looked like a No. 1 scoring option. I want to see what Blatt can do with him.

[Combat Wombat]

lol

[Jyap9675]

What position will Benett play then? Man, besides Kyrie Cleveland did screw up a lot of picks..

[RedBlackAttack]

What position will Benett play then? Man, besides Kyrie Cleveland did screw up a lot of picks..
Not really. Both Waiters and Thompson were perfectly fine picks in retrospect.

And, Bennett is a power forward. Period. He was never a SF.

[russwest0]

He's right and thats why they wanted to draft Jabari Parker but Jabari Parker made it pretty evident that he didn't want to play in Cleveland so they didn't have much of a choice.

[GimmeThat]

I wonder if the Cavs/Warriors would do a Thompson for Waiters move.

I think Irving/Thompson/Wiggins could work really well.

not 100% on what happens on the defensive end, but the athleticism is there.

They'd have to keep Hawes though.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Sign and trade Jordan Hill for Waiters + Zeller.

[NattyPButter]

Waiters isn't going any where. Gilbert and Griffin both love him.

[BoutPractice]

Reminds me of Kevin Durant's rookie season when they played him at the two.

Wiggins is not quite as tall as Durant but he was recently measured as nearly 6'9 in shoes, with a 7'0 wingspan and 8'11 standing reach.

If he were a PF those measurements wouldn't be held against him (Al Horford can play center but doesn't have much of an edge on Wiggins in the length department) provided he put on more weight...

And of course they're absolutely perfect for the modern day SF. He's got the wingspan of LeBron, Larry Nance, Josh Smith and Scottie Pippen, the standing reach of Perry Jones.

So it's pretty clear that his long term position will be SF, just as it was clear for KD in his rookie season.

[BrownEye007]

Sign and trade Jordan Hill for Waiters + Zeller.
How about Waiters + Zeller for Julius randle and a couple future first rounders?

[GimmeThat]

How about Waiters + Zeller for Julius randle and a couple future first rounders?


well, it's not Cody Zeller

and Waiters rookie contract isn't that much substantially better than Randles.

Since that's probably an aspect that was factored into my proposal that wasn't considered because of too many reasons to even be accounted for.

[-Lebron23-]

Wiggins will be a small forward, no issue here.

[masonanddixon]

Waiters is garbage, not sure why anyone cares about the guy.

[DukeDelonte13]

Waiters is garbage, not sure why anyone cares about the guy.


Waiters is a f*cking beast, and one of the best young SG's in the league.

He should be untouchable, IMO.

When Kyrie went down he did a great job (some would even argue a better job than kyrie) of leading the team.

Dude can be depended upon for scoring, he is very good creator as well, and his defense is actually a little underrated. He has the mentality you want in a guard.


I heard a rumor that one of the final straws that led to Grant's firing was that he was continuing to solicit Dion Waiters trade proposals against the ownership group's wishes.

[HylianNightmare]

Orlando

[Jailblazers7]

I'd probably still want Dion coming off the bench. A guy with his talent and scoring ability isn't someone I want to try to change too much just to fit in with Kyrie right now. When he is on the court, I want him playing like it's his squad out there.

Honestly, I think it is Kyrie's job to learn to play with Dion and not the other way around. Kyrie is the PG and supposed to be a leader. If you are going to give him max money, then he needs to be able to learn how to get the most out of his teammates.

[DukeDelonte13]

I'd probably still want Dion coming off the bench. A guy with his talent and scoring ability isn't someone I want to try to change too much just to fit in with Kyrie right now. When he is on the court, I want him playing like it's his squad out there.

Honestly, I think it is Kyrie's job to learn to play with Dion and not the other way around. Kyrie is the PG and supposed to be a leader. If you are going to give him max money, then he needs to be able to learn how to get the most out of his teammates.


Kyrie is more of a 2 and Dion is more of a 1.

[Jailblazers7]

Kyrie is more of a 2 and Dion is more of a 1.

Hmm, really? I didn't watch a ton of Cavs games last year but that is interesting.

[El Gato Negro]

Kyrie is more of a 2 and Dion is more of a 1. blatt will see that to and be the first person to make it work.

[DukeDelonte13]

blatt will see that to and be the first person to make it work.


Brown saw it and tried to make it work. Kyrie played a lot of 2 this past year. However when Dion and Kyrie were out together Kyrie typically brought the ball up. Both Dion and Kyire need to learn how to play off the ball more. They kinda started doing it under Brown, but it needs to continue. Byron just said f*ck it and let them do what they wanted.

[El Gato Negro]

Brown saw it and tried to make it work. Kyrie played a lot of 2 this past year. However when Dion and Kyrie were out together Kyrie typically brought the ball up. Both Dion and Kyire need to learn how to play off the ball more. They kinda started doing it under Brown, but it needs to continue. Byron just said f*ck it and let them do what they wanted.
i say give the ball to dion and make kyrie and wiggins run the floor every play. unless one or the other grabs the rebound.

[FatComputerNerd]

i say give the ball to dion and make kyrie and wiggins run the floor every play. unless one or the other grabs the rebound.

Kyrie is a point-guard, and a very capable one at that...he just needs a system, which hopefully Blatt will help put into place.

There's nothing wrong with him playing off the ball at times, but we don't want to turn him into a 6'3 shooting guard.

I would get so mad last year when Kyrie and Jack, or Kyrie and Delly would be in together at the same time, and Kyrie didn't bring the ball up-court...play after play.

[JohnFreeman]

I would love Waiters

[DukeDelonte13]

Kyrie is a point-guard, and a very capable one at that...he just needs a system, which hopefully Blatt will help put into place.

There's nothing wrong with him playing off the ball at times, but we don't want to turn him into a 6'3 shooting guard.

I would get so mad last year when Kyrie and Jack, or Kyrie and Delly would be in together at the same time, and Kyrie didn't bring the ball up-court...play after play.


Kyrie had systems to play in, he just sometimes chooses not to play within the system, especially in the 4th down the stretch.

He's been labeled as a PG but he's really a SG. Jack and Delly brought the ball up because the offense flowed better when they did so. Kyrie lets the ball stick way too much. I got more mad watching kyrie dribble down the clock and take a very difficult shot rather than moving the ball around.

His PG skills have improved over the course of his career.

[FatComputerNerd]

Kyrie had systems to play in, he just sometimes chooses not to play within the system, especially in the 4th down the stretch.

He's been labeled as a PG but he's really a SG. Jack and Delly brought the ball up because the offense flowed better when they did so. Kyrie lets the ball stick way too much. I got more mad watching kyrie dribble down the clock and take a very difficult shot rather than moving the ball around.

His PG skills have improved over the course of his career.

He is not a SG in any way shape or form!

I agree he needs to move the ball more, and sometimes plays too much ISO, but being an alpha scorer doesn't mean you can't be a good PG too.

He simply needs to learn to be a more willing passer, which I think he's already started to do. His apg average rising every year so far shows that. He's clearly a skilled and creative passer, with good court-vision.

He just tries to be a hero too much sometimes. I think this is him wanting to "be like Mike", or be the next AI. This is just his immaturity (he is still very young). He's already started to, and will continue to outgrow this.

That said, the fact that he has the ability to "be like mike" is huge too. There are times when we NEED him to be Mr 4th quarter, and go Uncle Drew on them. As he continues to mature he will learn (hopefully) when to turn this on, and when not to...

[FatComputerNerd]

Mr. Fourth Quarter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0ICBUAG_y8)

Never forget!!!

[El Gato Negro]

Kyrie is a point-guard, and a very capable one at that...he just needs a system, which hopefully Blatt will help put into place.

There's nothing wrong with him playing off the ball at times, but we don't want to turn him into a 6'3 shooting guard.

I would get so mad last year when Kyrie and Jack, or Kyrie and Delly would be in together at the same time, and Kyrie didn't bring the ball up-court...play after play.
i dont think blatt will have anyone holding on to the ball so imo it wont matter who brings it up.

[navy]

i dont think blatt will have anyone holding on to the ball so imo it wont matter who brings it up.

Kyrie is the best ball handler in the league. He will hold the ball.

[FatComputerNerd]

Kyrie is the best ball handler in the league. He will hold the ball.

\True (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR8whdU6NvI)

He's AI 3-4 inches taller, with a much better jumper.