Kobe 1 for 18, LeBron 4 for 11

[TheCorporation]

In a test to determine who is the best player in the league, the most valuable of players, the MVP award awaits it's destined winner, season after season. An award that says, "You are the greatest player with the greatest impact in the league, and because of this we honor your greatness."

Kobe has won this award once in 18 years (2008).
LeBron has won this award once in 11 years (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013).

1 in 18 is 5.5%
4 in 11 is 36%

Can Kobe win 3 more MVPs to TIE LeBron James for being know as one of the best basketball players of all time, and one of the best basketball players in the league?

MVP totals:
Kareem 6
Jordan 5
Russell 5
LeBron 4
Wilt 4
Duncan 2
Kobe 1

Can Kobe catch Duncan? Can LeBron catch Jordan? Kobe has already shown his greatness with a great team effort and GOAT coach to protect/help him, but can he show his supreme greatness by winning another MVP? Many of the all-time greats have at least 2 Finals MVPs (check) but they also win regular season MVPs. Can Kobe become one of the elite? He is falling behind fast, but will he gain any ground?

[Black and White]

A regular season media award defines greatness? :biggums:

People forget context when it comes to LeBrons MVPs, what competition did he have?

[TheCorporation]

A regular season media award defines greatness? :biggums:

People forget context when it comes to LeBrons MVPs, what competition did he have?

Look at the validity of the award, you tell me?

MVP totals:
Kareem 6
Jordan 5
Russell 5
LeBron 4
Wilt 4

Looks like a pretty good list to me.

What competition did he have? :lol Good question, way to ether Kobe lol

[Black and White]

Look at the validity of the award, you tell me?

MVP totals:
Kareem 6
Jordan 5
Russell 5
LeBron 4
Wilt 4

Looks like a pretty good list to me.

What competition did he have? :lol Good question, way to ether Kobe lol

Shaq, 1 MVP. Nash 2

/Thread

[Warfan]

The fact that people just point to one thing whether it be rings, MVPs, stats or whatever to prove one player is better shows that they're a dumbass and aren't capable of forming a proper argument.

If bron played on the same teams as kobe his first 11 years he would have some more rings but less MVPs and vice versa for Kobe. That's why it's just dumb to say 5>2 or 4>1. Context is important because players usually are in compelstely different situations and have completely different circumstances for the most part.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Together Malone & Nash have more MVPs than Kobe, Shaq & Hakeem combined

Moses Malone, Karl Malone & Nash have a combined 7 MVPs

Kobe,Shaq,Duncan & Hakeem have a combined 5 MVPS

MVP is a regular season award, legends are created in the playoffs

[buddha]

weak era

[SouBeachTalents]

Shaq, 1 MVP. Nash 2

/Thread

Not to mention historically by MVP count Nash > Hakeem, Oscar, and West

[TheCorporation]

Shaq, 1 MVP. Nash 2

/Thread

Nice try, nothing is perfect. Kawhi Leonard has a Finals MVP, so does Chauncey Billups. Does anyone say...

Billups and Leonoard > Barkely and Malone

No, because people can still be rational. So, my point still stands. Nice try but you're gonna need to bring more than just the boring, tired, old argument.

[TheCorporation]

The fact that people just point to one thing whether it be rings, MVPs, stats or whatever to prove one player is better shows that they're a dumbass and aren't capable of forming a proper argument.

If bron played on the same teams as kobe his first 11 years he would have some more rings but less MVPs and vice versa for Kobe. That's why it's just dumb to say 5>2 or 4>1. Context is important because players usually are in compelstely different situations and have completely different circumstances for the most part.

:applause:

[tpols]

Nice try, nothing is perfect. Kawhi Leonard has a Finals MVP, so does Chauncey Billups. Does anyone say...

Billups and Leonoard > Barkely and Malone

No, because people can still be rational. So, my point still stands. Nice try but you're gonna need to bring more than just the boring, tired, old argument.

Who has ever said FMVP is the end all be all for greatness like youre doing with the MVP? (which completely disregards playoffs lol)

[VIntageNOvel]

Together Malone & Nash have more MVPs than Kobe, Shaq & Hakeem combined

Moses Malone, Karl Malone & Nash have a combined 7 MVPs

Kobe,Shaq,Duncan & Hakeem have a combined 5 MVPS

MVP is a regular season award, legends are created in the playoffs


http://37.media.tumblr.com/8a70e424100186dcef7508cc65a65e84/tumblr_n7lkprAwUg1tfn6p6o1_1280.jpg

[jstern]

Shaq, 1 MVP. Nash 2

/Thread

The main reason why Shaq only has one is because he pretty much miss too many games year after year after year.

Kobe 1 for 18
Kobe, Mr. Clutch is 2/7 in NBA Finals, the time when he should step it up. Instead his teammates bailed him out. It show how stack his team were.


The fact that people just point to one thing whether it be rings, MVPs, stats or whatever to prove one player is better shows that they're a dumbass and aren't capable of forming a proper argument.

If bron played on the same teams as kobe his first 11 years he would have some more rings but less MVPs and vice versa for Kobe. That's why it's just dumb to say 5>2 or 4>1. Context is important because players usually are in compelstely different situations and have completely different circumstances for the most part.

Lebron passes the eye test of clearly being the best in the league every year, and his MVP is the product of that. Lets not get denial get the best of you. There's nothing being taken out of context there. Those MVPs show that.

[Black and White]

Nice try, nothing is perfect. Kawhi Leonard has a Finals MVP, so does Chauncey Billups. Does anyone say...

Billups and Leonoard > Barkely and Malone

No, because people can still be rational. So, my point still stands. Nice try but you're gonna need to bring more than just the boring, tired, old argument.

You are using MVP as the only argument to define greatness, I then showed you why thats flawed, so you include FMVP in your argument now? You are proving yourself wrong here.....

[AnaheimLakers24]

2/5

[Akrazotile]

In a test to determine who is the best player in the league, the most valuable of players, the MVP award awaits it's destined winner, season after season. An award that says, "You are the greatest player with the greatest impact in the league, and because of this we honor your greatness."

Kobe has won this award once in 18 years (2008).
LeBron has won this award once in 11 years (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013).

1 in 18 is 5.5%
4 in 11 is 36%

Can Kobe win 3 more MVPs to TIE LeBron James for being know as one of the best basketball players of all time, and one of the best basketball players in the league?

MVP totals:
Kareem 6
Jordan 5
Russell 5
LeBron 4
Wilt 4
Duncan 2
Kobe 1

Can Kobe catch Duncan? Can LeBron catch Jordan? Kobe has already shown his greatness with a great team effort and GOAT coach to protect/help him, but can he show his supreme greatness by winning another MVP? Many of the all-time greats have at least 2 Finals MVPs (check) but they also win regular season MVPs. Can Kobe become one of the elite? He is falling behind fast, but will he gain any ground?


The logic is solid :applause:

[Rodmantheman]

http://37.media.tumblr.com/8a70e424100186dcef7508cc65a65e84/tumblr_n7lkprAwUg1tfn6p6o1_1280.jpg

:oldlol:

[TheCorporation]

2/5

2/7

1/18

[ball4life27]

No excuses MVP is MVP, Shaq only had 1 because he was lazy, Hakeem played in jordans era4mvps>>> 1mvp

[coin24]

Give it up OP.. Your boy crumbles on the biggest stage and made a fool of himself going to Miami, hand picking his team, and still loses:lol

Anyone with a brain knows Kobe>>>>>>bran..

2/5 ouch..

[TheCorporation]

Give it up OP.. Your boy crumbles on the biggest stage and made a fool of himself going to Miami, hand picking his team, and still loses:lol

Anyone with a brain knows Kobe>>>>>>bran..

2/5 ouch..

I still think 2/5 is better than 2/7

And I still think 4/11 is better than 1/18.

Did you fail math, or?

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://s13.postimg.org/job9e9b2v/image.jpg

[Akrazotile]

2/5 > 1/18

OP's logic is solid.

[TheCorporation]

http://i59.tinypic.com/29w97wi.jpg

[J Shuttlesworth]

lol @ these threads. I don't see any of this #/# > #/# stuff at realgm :lol

[sportjames23]

http://37.media.tumblr.com/8a70e424100186dcef7508cc65a65e84/tumblr_n7lkprAwUg1tfn6p6o1_1280.jpg


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[LakersFan626]

The main reason why Shaq only has one is because he pretty much miss too many games year after year after year.

Kobe 1 for 18
Kobe, Mr. Clutch is 2/7 in NBA Finals, the time when he should step it up. Instead his teammates bailed him out. It show how stack his team were.



Lebron passes the eye test of clearly being the best in the league every year, and his MVP is the product of that. Lets not get denial get the best of you. There's nothing being taken out of context there. Those MVPs show that.

Kobe's 2 for 7? You're counting his sidekick rings as losses? Just say he's 2 for 3 if you aren't counting his Shaq years, but then again that would mean that he still has a better percentage than LeBron.

[SexSymbol]

It's sad that this is all that's left for LeBron fans.
Prior to these finals you really had some sort of a chance, now you just look stupid

[BoutPractice]

Can we please stop just... counting stuff? A 5 year old could do that.

[HurricaneKid]

Kobe's 2 for 7? You're counting his sidekick rings as losses? Just say he's 2 for 3 if you aren't counting his Shaq years, but then again that would mean that he still has a better percentage than LeBron.

Better percentage?

You are LITERALLY saying its better to not make the playoffs than to carry your team to the Finals. And its a DUMB thing to say.

[JohnFreeman]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t1.0-9/10398048_1467855363459257_7635562019511494205_n.jp g

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The main reason why Shaq only has one is because he pretty much miss too many games year after year after year.

Kobe 1 for 18
Kobe, Mr. Clutch is 2/7 in NBA Finals, the time when he should step it up. Instead his teammates bailed him out. It show how stack his team were.



Lebron passes the eye test of clearly being the best in the league every year, and his MVP is the product of that. Lets not get denial get the best of you. There's nothing being taken out of context there. Those MVPs show that.

Kobe actually has 5 rings, 4 being a HUGE contributor of (2 FMVP).

Lets not throw the term "denial" around and subsequently post garbage

[riseagainst]

lebron stans are the most retarded people on ISH....

[lilgodfather1]

Paul really should have won MVP in 2008. Not saying Kobe shouldn't have one, but it shouldn't be that one.

[riseagainst]

so OP would rather have MVPs than championships. What an idiot.
:oldlol:

[Ne 1]

Number of MVPs isn't really all that significant. I think of MVP winners as more like a club... if you're truly great, you'll more than likely get at least 1 MVP, but it's not really about how many you win. Not to mention the media tends to boycott those whom they don't like very much after that first MVP... or absolutely wait until the last second to give them one...and they will hand it out multiple times to people they like personally i.e. Steve Nash. Shaq, Kobe and Hakeem all only have 1 MVP but have multiple rings, which is part of why they're considered to be the top 10 greatest players in NBA history, while Moses Malone isn't despite having 3 MVPs, he only has 1 ring. Being an MVP winner + number of rings is what get's you recognition.

So while being an MVP is important, number of rings by MVP winners is the standard of which most are judged, not the other way around. Otherwise Moses's 3 MVPs, 1 title would be top 10 all time and he would be ranked ahead of Hakeem, Kobe, Shaq and on par with Magic and Bird. But he's not. In all number of MVPs is just pretty much a popularity vote decided by memeber a of the media. Of course no way of voting is ever going to be 100% perfect, but it was better when the players voted for MVP, as the media often voted for the "best story. If the media doesn't like you, good luck winning more than 1. But there is nothing the media can do to stop an MVP winner from winning multiple championships.

[jstern]

Kobe's 2 for 7? You're counting his sidekick rings as losses? Just say he's 2 for 3 if you aren't counting his Shaq years, but then again that would mean that he still has a better percentage than LeBron.

I'm simply using the simplistic Kobetard logic, and it is shocking to see a Kobe fan saying that Shaq rings shouldn't be used, when those rings are constantly used to talk about how Kobe is the GOAT, or top 5. I thought those rings were as valuable as his rings as the man, so why shouldn't they be used when saying 2/7? If a Kobe fan can say 2/5 for Lebron carrying his teams to the Finals and losing as the man to better, superior teams, then why should Kobe get a free ride for not having to carry that load?

[Heavincent]

If a Kobe fan can say 2/5 for Lebron carrying his teams to the Finals and losing as the man to better, superior teams, then why should Kobe get a free ride for not having to carry that load?

Yep, Lebron had a shit team in 2011. He did his job, but his teammates let him down in the finals.

[jstern]

Yep, Lebron had a shit team in 2011. He did his job, but his teammates let him down in the finals.

What about this year and 2007? I don't get it, why do you now completely ignore those year and have the one truly bad year represent his whole Finals career? So the Kobe stans should continuously say 2/5 based on just 2011?

[Nash]

2/5
Kobe's FMVP's in championships.

40% Alpha
60% Sidekick

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I'm simply using the simplistic Kobetard logic, and it is shocking to see a Kobe fan saying that Shaq rings shouldn't be used, when those rings are constantly used to talk about how Kobe is the GOAT, or top 5. I thought those rings were as valuable as his rings as the man, so why shouldn't they be used when saying 2/7? If a Kobe fan can say 2/5 for Lebron carrying his teams to the Finals and losing as the man to better, superior teams, then why should Kobe get a free ride for not having to carry that load?

That's you like saying LeBron's 2 rings shouldn't count because without Wade and Bosh, he was a regular season warmonger.

Putting you and other silly posts aside, both Kobe and Lebron are great; Kobe has the advantage of having more rings (playing like a superstar in all but one), where LeBron has the advantage of MVPs, arguably the better peak player.

[Heavincent]

What about this year and 2007? I don't get it, why do you now completely ignore those year and have the one truly bad year represent his whole Finals career? So the Kobe stans should continuously say 2/5 based on just 2011?

He shot 36% and averaged 6 turnovers in the 07 Finals. I don't think that helps your argument.

[Hey Yo]

A regular season media award defines greatness? :biggums:

People forget context when it comes to LeBrons MVPs, what competition did he have?
People use total all-star appearances, "which is voted on by the fans" to prop up their favorite players resume'.

Media vote > Fan vote

[jstern]

That's you like saying LeBron's 2 rings shouldn't count because without Wade and Bosh, he was a regular season warmonger.

Putting you and other silly posts aside, both Kobe and Lebron are great; Kobe has the advantage of having more rings (playing like a superstar in all but one), where LeBron has the advantage of MVPs, arguably the better peak player.

Very interesting. I responded to a Kobe fan saying that I shouldn't say 2/7 because Shaq won Finals MVP 3 times, and then a Kobe stan in a different argument saying that those 3 rings matter as much as Lebron the man, because in this argument it benefits Kobe, while in the previous argument the Shaq rings didn't benefit him.


He shot 36% and averaged 6 turnovers in the 07 Finals. I don't think that helps your argument.

He was 22, the Spurs completely overmatched his team, with him being the sole focus of the defense. It helps my argument more than any other year. Compare his lack of help, he being the sole focus, to Kobe's Finals career.

[Ne 1]

What about this year and 2007? I don't get it, why do you now completely ignore those year and have the one truly bad year represent his whole Finals career? So the Kobe stans should continuously say 2/5 based on just 2011?
2007, it's not the fact that he lost so much, it's that he played so far below what you would have expected from him. If he played even a little bit better, the series would have been closer (would have been 2-2 going back to Cleveland) He gets somewhat of a pass because he wasn't in his prime yet and not many people expected the Cavs to beat the Spurs, but the reality is that his performance was horrendous for a player of his caliber so that's why it's a black mark in a way, not because he lost. This year? He was underwhelming and inconsistent for the vast majority of the series outside of that brilliant game 2 and he got clearly outplayed by a role player during the 2 biggest games of the series on his home court. It was very similar to Durant's 2012 Finals. Sure, his efficiency was great but the rest of his game just wasn't there. His defense was mediocre, playmaking wasn't same and he was a turnover machine. Kawai Leonard looked like an All-Star in games 3-5 with LeBron defending him. Although unlike LeBron, for Durant's performance, he has the explanation of not being in his prime yet and inexperience/still learning the playoff ropes. As I mentioned already, LeBron was just inconsistent throughout the series outside of that great game 2. His lack of a killer instinct and passiveness in moments when the team needed him to step up was clearly an issue. With all that said however San Antonio was just simply the better team than Miami.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Very interesting. I responded to a Kobe fan saying that I shouldn't say 2/7 because Shaq won Finals MVP 3 times, and then a Kobe stan in a different argument saying that those 3 rings matter as much as Lebron the man, because in this argument it benefits Kobe, while in the previous argument the Shaq rings didn't benefit him.

Each argument is dumb (and short sided). Kobe's 5 rings matter, just like LeBron's MVPs do.

When you add everything together, they've both been pretty succesful. I have them @ #9 and #10 all-time, respectfully.

[Dragonyeuw]

I'm all but ready to declare the MVP award useless in these types of debates. For one, Steve Nash has the same amount of MVPs as Kobe and Shaq combined. That alone should bring the award into question when it comes to these kinds of debates.

Also, context. Lebron has won the bulk of his MVPs during a transition phase of the late 90s/2000s stars exiting their prime, and the more modern talents like Dwight( hasn't been MVP caliber in 2-3 years), Melo, Durant being his main MVP competition now. Rose is injured, a legit MVP candidate from 3-4 years ago in D/Wade is now on his team and no longer MVP material due to age and injuries etc etc.

Kobe's prime coincided with that of Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Orlando Tmac, Iverson, Webber, prime Wade, Dirk and Lebron entering his own peak/prime... I mean the disparity in competition makes any MVP comparisons pointless. You can't penalize Lebron for playing in the era he's in, but you can't discount that the conditions are there for him to amass MVP after MVP. Kobe legitimately has 4 other seasons where he could have been MVP ( 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009) but the voters felt otherwise.

[Droid101]

https://warosu.org/data/3/img/0004/14/1394663132979.jpg

[Ne 1]

He was 22, the Spurs completely overmatched his team, with him being the sole focus of the defense. It helps my argument more than any other year. Compare his lack of help, he being the sole focus, to Kobe's Finals career.
Go back and watch that series and look at how Pop defended James. He had Bruce Bowen sag off about 30 feet and let LeBron shot jumpers and he did nothing about it becuase he had no midrange game. Yeah, he was 22, but he was physically the most NBA ready player ever to come out of high school. If you want you can chalk it up to him being inexperienced and still learning the playoff ropes if you want. But the fact is that while he averaged 22/7/7, he shot 35% from the field, 20% on 3's and 69% from the line while averaging 6 turnovers per game and on 23 shots per game. Horrendous for a player of James' caliber. Part of that was him being exposed as a terrible shooter. (For the entire season, he shot just 34.6% from 16-23 feet, 31.9% on 3s and 69.8% from the line.) but as I said, he wasn't in his prime yet so I don't judge him too much because of that.

[Droid101]

Go back and watch that series and look at how Pop defended James. He had Bruce Bowen sag off about 30 feet and let LeBron shot jumpers and he did nothing about it becuase he had no midrange game.
Try to imagine Pop trying to have Bowen guard 22 year old Kobe like that. :oldlol:

[Heavincent]

It helps my argument more than any other year.

No it doesn't.

[jstern]

No it doesn't.

Lebron being the leader of a shitty team at 22 being the focus of the defense vs an elite San Antonio team, compared to Kobe being 2/7, Lakers being favorites, playing with hall of famers, not even having to be the man of his team, thus only two Final MVPs, which should have been 1.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Has Kobe really been in the league for 18 years... wow

[crisoner]

Let's see...

Winning regular season MVP's that are voting on

OR

Winning titles



Winning titles please

5/2 > 2/3

[Ne 1]

a shitty team
Gross exaggeration. If they were so shitty, how did they manage to help him get past Detroit? How is it that they managed to stay competitive with the Spurs (only lost by 3 points in games 3 and 1 point game 4) with LeBron shooting 39% and 33%? Sure, they were one of the weaker teams to make the Finals, but so were the '01 Sixers, '09 Magic and the '02/'03 Nets. But that doesn't mean they were "shitty." In fact, the Cavs were an excellent defensive and rebounding team which was a huge reason they got past the Pistons.

[Ne 1]

Each argument is dumb (and short sided). Kobe's 5 rings matter, just like LeBron's MVPs do.

When you add everything together, they've both been pretty succesful. I have them @ #9 and #10 all-time, respectfully.
Nah man, Kobe was just another Rick Fox/Derek Fisher for his first 3 rings. They don't count, it was all Shaq. He would have never won without Shaq....oh wait that's right he proved that he could. :lol

[TheCorporation]

Let's see...

Winning regular season MVP's that are voting on

OR

Winning titles



Winning titles please

5/2 > 2/3

Kinda missed the point here bud...Thanks for contributing lol

[Ne 1]

Kinda missed the point here bud...Thanks for contributing lol
He's right. The main goal for teams/players is to win rings, not rack up awards awarded by the media. Ask Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Steve Nash, Kevin Durant, Allen Iverson and Derrick Rose... if they could, they'd trade in their MVP trophies for a championship ring in a heart beat.

[TheCorporation]

He's right. The main goal for teams/players is to win rings, not rack up awards awarded by the media. Ask Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Steve Nash, Kevin Durant, Allen Iverson and Derrick Rose... if they could, they'd trade in their MVP trophies for a championship ring in a heart beat.

I'll spell it out for the few that don't understand...

Championships are a team effort, and team achievement. Do you not think you could pair up Shaq with Malone, Barkley, KD, Rose, LBJ etc and they would not win at least 3 chips in 8 years? Sure Kobe earned some rings, but so did the entire team. MVPs on the other hand are more of an individual award. So if we're talking about an individual award, then MVPs are the way to go. If we are talking about a team achievement, then Championships are. And since this thread isn't about Lakers vs Heat, well...

[dubeta]

He's right. The main goal for teams/players is to win rings, not rack up awards awarded by the media. Ask Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Steve Nash, Kevin Durant, Allen Iverson and Derrick Rose... if they could, they'd trade in their MVP trophies for a championship ring in a heart beat.

Ok ask Robert Horry, Scalabrine, Norris Cole, Adam Morrison and the thousands of other role players bench warmers who have rings, they would trade their rings in a heartbeat to be an MVP superstar in the league :facepalm

Only thing that matters in winning the ring as the man, nothing else

[TheCorporation]

Ok ask Robert Horry, Scalabrine, Norris Cole, Adam Morrison and the thousands of other role players bench warmers who have rings, they would trade their rings in a heartbeat to be an MVP superstar in the league :facepalm

Only thing that matters in winning the ring as the man, nothing else

Exactly, I'm still trying to figure out why people don't get this. They need to stop focusing on team achievement type awards and realize that individual awards are what needs to be brought up when comparing PLAYERS. Now, if we were arguing who is a better franchise between the Lakers and Heat, sure, bring up all the Championships. But we aren't discussing two franchises, we are discussing two individual players.

[Droid101]

TheCorporation is a dishonest, ignorant trolling assbag.

But I repeat myself.

[TheCorporation]

TheCorporation is a dishonest, ignorant trolling assbag.

But I repeat myself.

How the hell am I trolling? What things mentioned below are untrue:

Kobe has won 1 MVP in 18 years (hence 1 for 18)
LeBron has won 4 MVPs in 11 years (hence 4 for 11)

Kobe has won Finals MVP 2 times in 7 Finals appearances (hence 2 for 7)
LeBron has won Finals MVP 2 times in 5 Finals appearances (hence 2 for 5)

Don't let your emotions blind you and start feeling some type of way...Facts are facts. So again, please tell me what I said isn't true, and is dishonest trolling?

[DFish24]

Bran stans have certainly hit rock bottom after 2/5.