When you let players like Harden and Melo be 'the man' you won't have success

[Akrazotile]

This is a phenomenon I find interesting, how fans would rather see a talented 'streetball' type chucker play on his own team and score 30 per game on a first round exit team, rather than try and play good basketball and limit himself to the kind of game that is going to help the team.

People said this about Westbrook. "Man, I'd love to see this guy on his own team." Really, so you'd love to see this guy jacking shots in the regular season and not even making the playoffs in the West? Rather than see him compromise his individual statistics to play the best possible basketball he can with another young star player? Smh...

Folks are talking about how Harden left OKC to go be 'the man' on Houston. They will never win a single goddamn thing with James Harden being their designated ballhog. Same with the Knicks and Carmelo. I can understand why guys would want to go somewhere they can be PAID top dollar, if it's not being offered by the team they're already on. But this notion that chuckers feel entitled to being given carte blanche to shot jack at the expense of team success? I don't understand it, and I don't understand why so many fans are on board with it. If you really value iso players that greatly, you are the essence of a sportscenter watching 'casual fan' rather than a knowledgeable fan. Which is your prerogative, but I mean I'm just sayin.

[Akrazotile]

In OP's eyes, any player who's out on the wing and shoots somewhere around 45% is automatically overrated or wtf ever.


If they're taking 20 shots a game, yes.

[Legends66NBA7]

Depends on the coaching system.

[Akrazotile]

The max hardens ever taken is 17 :coleman:


Imagine if they counted all the drives he gets bogus whistles on :eek:

[Milbuck]

Nope. They reach, he teaches.
Yeah, he taught his way to getting assrammed in the first round...again.

His calls are absolute bullshit. They stopped in the playoffs, and he got exposed.

[To4]

It really depends on the coach and ball movement.

[Smook A.]

Yeah, he taught his way to getting assrammed in the first round...again.

His calls are absolute bullshit. They stopped in the playoffs, and he got exposed.
He averaged 8 fta in the playoffs.

Thats 1 less than his regular season average. Lol he still got his calls. Its just that his shooting was horrible in the playoffs.

[Ass Dan]

Realistically there are at most 4 guys in the league who you can have 'success' with being the man.

5 through 10 guys like Harden and Anthony are nothing to sneeze at and you get em when you can.

[Milbuck]

He averaged 8 fta in the playoffs.

Thats 1 less than his regular season average. Lol he still got his calls. Its just that his shooting was horrible in the playoffs.
He got better calls, as in free throws for actual contact. There were still some bullshit calls, but overall they held the whistle for stuff they would've given him in the regular season. And we all saw what happened with that.

As for the bolded, would "shitting the bed" be a good description of what he did in the playoffs?

[Akrazotile]

Realistically there are at most 4 guys in the league who you can have 'success' with being the man.

5 through 10 guys like Harden and Anthony are nothing to sneeze at and you get em when you can.


Quite frankly Sure, get them if you want but paying the max is retarded and furthermore if they refuse to play smart and just keep putting up shit shots, give them the Marbury treatment and sit their ass on the bench.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Your theories are shit and spoken like someone who has never held a basketball in their life. You're a box score reader, nothing more.

Only a retard would balk at having someone like Westbrook running point for their team, especially following his beast postseason run. You think someone with a pretty FG% can do better? Where's Chris Paul's ring? Hell, where's Chris Paul's conference finals appearance?

[Legends66NBA7]

Thought it was crazy DeRozan got more FTA's in the playoffs than Harden in the first round. Hell, averaged more than anyone in the playoffs.

Hope that carries forward next season. DeMar could match or surpass his good friend after a full training camp going into next season as the #1 scoring option, although he probably isn't a #1 option.

[imdaman99]

OP, why'd you leave Kobe out of this thread? Isn't the original guy that wanted to be the man on his own team? :confusedshrug:

Is it because it doesn't fit your agenda this time around due to him having success? :pimp:

[ThePhantomCreep]

OP, why'd you leave Kobe out of this thread? Isn't the original guy that wanted to be the man on his own team? :confusedshrug:

Is it because it doesn't fit your agenda this time around due to him having success? :pimp:

By the time you're done reading his reply/spinjob, he'll have you believing Pau Gasol was prime Kareem on steroids. Careful.

[Akrazotile]

OP, why'd you leave Kobe out of this thread? Isn't the original guy that wanted to be the man on his own team? :confusedshrug:

Is it because it doesn't fit your agenda this time around due to him having success? :pimp:


Because Kobe was never the most IMPORTANT player on any team he had success with.

Actually Kobe's three year stretch during his prime as the shot-jacking 'man' proves my point entirely. That style of play achieves nothing. You realize Kobes Lakers went from first round doormat to three time finalists by simply adding Fisher and Gasol? Why do you think that is... It's because those guys got the Lakers playing intelligent basketball which Kome was always too selfish and insecure to do. He needed to always have his ego stroked and get all the shots and glory. Dude is a fugazi alpha. Hes really a beta in disguise.

[Smook A.]

He got better calls, as in free throws for actual contact. There were still some bullshit calls, but overall they held the whistle for stuff they would've given him in the regular season. And we all saw what happened with that.

As for the bolded, would "shitting the bed" be a good description of what he did in the playoffs?
Change it to diarrhea. His playoff performance was unacceptable. I wasn't expecting him to play like that.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Because Kobe was never the most IMPORTANT player on any team he had success with.

Actually Kobe's three year stretch during his prime as the shot-jacking 'man' proves my point entirely. That style of play achieves nothing. You realize Kobes Lakers went from first round doormat to three time finalists by simply adding Fisher and Gasol? Why do you think that is... It's because those guys got the Lakers playing intelligent basketball which Kome was always too selfish and insecure to do. He needed to always have his ego stroked and get all the shots and glory. Dude is a fugazi alpha. Hes really a beta in disguise.

Context. Kobe was surrounded by garbage during that three-year stretch. You are aware that "pretty FG%" players like Barkley, Olajuwon, and Kareem all missed the playoffs in their primes, yes? And when they (and Kobe) had solid supporting casts they led them to greatness, yes? Or almost greatness in Barkley's case.

How'd Gasol do in Memphis btw? Since he's such an incredible force of nature and all.

[GimmeThat]

so there's only 1 or 2 superstars in this league

and everyone else pretty much have to go by the rule of team first.
heck, even superstars might have to obey that rule when they run into a legitimate team.


you tell the general managers to stop making false promises, and the players will stop playing retarded because that's what they thought the franchise expected of them.

[Akrazotile]

Context. Kobe was surrounded by garbage during that three-year stretch. You are aware that "pretty FG%" players like Barkley, Olajuwon, and Kareem all missed the playoffs in their primes, yes? And when they (and Kobe) had solid supporting casts they led them to greatness, yes? Or almost greatness in Barkley's case.

How'd Gasol do in Memphis btw? Since he's such an incredible force of nature and all.


Memphis was one of the worst organizations in sports at the time. Remember Kobe got drafted by a team like that but he was scared and needed a team with deep pockets and big time free agents to carry him.

Of course when he got too big for his britches and threw a hissy fit insisting it was his turn to drive the rolls royce, they gave him the keys and he crashed it three consecutive times. Then finally they brought Fisher and Pau back to actually sit in the drivers seat, but let Kobe sit on their lap and pretend to steer bc otherwise hed throw another fit and start to cry.

[Heavincent]

How'd Gasol do in Memphis btw? Since he's such an incredible force of nature and all.

His theories about Kobe have more holes than swiss cheese. Gasol is 0-16 in his playoff career before joining the Lakers, but then suddenly wins two titles. Why? Can't be because of Kobe. Overrated shot jacking fraud. So it's because of Phil Jackson, right? Nope, he's overrated too.

So I guess that leaves us with Fisher, Odom, Brown, Bynum, Ariza, and Farmar. Ariza is the only one in that group who hasn't completely washed away into the depths of obscurity. Well I guess Fisher was still having his 1-6 shooting nights playing for the Thunder, but the point still stands. I guess his theory is that Gasol, Odom, and Bynum is a championship core. It doesn't even matter who you put around them. Jesus Christ, somebody give this dude a position as GM. He'd get David Lee, Birdman, and Boris Diaw and call it a day. Automatic championship.

Also funny how he talks up Fisher's "high basketball IQ". Um, what? Fisher chucks up more dumb shots than anybody :roll:

[Akrazotile]

.

Also funny how he talks up Fisher's "high basketball IQ". Um, what? Fisher chucks up more clutch shots in big moments than anybody named Kobe :roll:


FIXED.

[SyRyanYang]

The problem with Harden and Melo is not that they a chuckers, but that they don't play defense.
You can be a volume shooter and still take your team to the highest level, see Kobe, Jordan etc. But you gotta play both ends.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Memphis was one of the worst organizations in sports at the time. Remember Kobe got drafted by a team like that but he was scared and needed a team with deep pockets and big time free agents to carry him.

Of course when he got too big for his britches and threw a hissy fit insisting it was his turn to drive the rolls royce, they gave him the keys and he crashed it three consecutive times. Then finally they brought Fisher and Pau back to actually sit in the drivers seat, but let Kobe sit on their lap and pretend to steer bc otherwise hed throw another fit and start to cry.

Yeah, with Jerry West running the show. :facepalm Worst poster ever.

Nobody wins without a good supporting cast. You're just dodging now.

[Akrazotile]

The problem with Harden and Melo is not that they a chuckers, but that they don't play defense.
You can be a volume shooter and still take your team to the highest level, see Jordan etc. But you gotta play both ends.

Thats true the defense is a big part of it. Actually thats what I meant frankly, is that an iso scorer who doesnt do anything BUT shoot an average percent is not a valuable player. You can achieve the same results with five regular players moving the ball. Theres no sense in giving max cap space to a carmelo or harden. None.

[Akrazotile]

Yeah, with Jerry West running the show. :facepalm Worst poster ever.

Nobody wins without a good supporting cast. You're just dodging now.

Thats my point. Pau didnt have one in Memphis. When he got to LA he had the same cast Kobe did the last three years and he took them to the finals :roll:

[ThePhantomCreep]

Thats my point. Pau didnt have one in Memphis. When he got to LA he had the same cast Kobe did the last three years and he took them to the finals :roll:

For Pau to have the same cast you'd have to replace Kobe with a Kwame Brown equivalent at SG, someone like Von Wafer.

25 wins tops.

[SyRyanYang]

Thats true the defense is a big part of it. Actually thats what I meant frankly, is that an iso scorer who doesnt do anything BUT shoot an average percent is not a valuable player. You can achieve the same results with five regular players moving the ball. Theres no sense in giving max cap space to a carmelo or harden. None.

lol you think the Spurs are just regular players moving the ball?
Diaw and Manu are some of the greatest passers the league has ever seen. They are also well capable of creating of creating for their own.

[Akrazotile]

lol you think the Spurs are just regular players moving the ball?
Diaw and Manu are some of the greatest passers the league has ever seen. They are also well capable of creating of creating for their own.


I'm not talking about the Spurs. I'm talking about the Nuggets or the Bobcats or the Suns. Those teams achieved the same results as the Knicks and Rockets this year, without tying up $100M in one chucker.

[Akrazotile]

For Pau to have the same cast you'd have to replace Kobe with a Kwame Brown equivalent at SG, someone like Von Wafer.

25 wins tops.


Fisher (alltime playoff games leader)
Wafer
Ariza
Gasol (2x champion)
Bynum

Odom (6MoY), Farmar, Vujacic, Brown, Walton

Phil (winningest playoff coach)


"25 wins tops" :roll:

That team is at least a second round team in the western conference at that time. Gasol/Wafer >>> Kobe/Kwame.

Gasol is better bro. Just deal with it.

[GimmeThat]

Context. Kobe was surrounded by garbage during that three-year stretch. You are aware that "pretty FG%" players like Barkley, Olajuwon, and Kareem all missed the playoffs in their primes, yes? And when they (and Kobe) had solid supporting casts they led them to greatness, yes? Or almost greatness in Barkley's case.

How'd Gasol do in Memphis btw? Since he's such an incredible force of nature and all.

it's actually quite impressive for someone to post up "pretty stats" when they are surrounded by garbage though.

garbages don't receive attentions I tell ya.

[Akrazotile]

it's actually quite impressive for someone to post up "pretty stats" when they are surrounded by garbage though.

garbages don't receive attentions I tell ya.


Well don't forget, Kobe's flameout teams actually had a pretty good win percentage when he didn't chuck like a diva. The problem was that it only happened once in a blue moon, so they never had a shot at winning a best of seven series.

[GimmeThat]

Well don't forget, Kobe's flameout teams actually had a pretty good win percentage when he didn't chuck like a diva. The problem was that it only happened once in a blue moon, so they never had a shot at winning a best of seven series.

Breaking Bad

[Trentknicks]

We heard you the first 50 times, didn't need another thread.

[SyRyanYang]

I'm not talking about the Spurs. I'm talking about the Nuggets or the Bobcats or the Suns. Those teams achieved the same results as the Knicks and Rockets this year, without tying up $100M in one chucker.

If the Rockets were in the East, they'd made it to the ECF at WORST.

[imdaman99]

Thats true the defense is a big part of it. Actually thats what I meant frankly, is that an iso scorer who doesnt do anything BUT shoot an average percent is not a valuable player. You can achieve the same results with five regular players moving the ball. Theres no sense in giving max cap space to a carmelo or harden. None.
Than why bring up Westbrook in the original post? Westbrook is capable of taking over a game on both sides of the court. Did you watch what he did to Tony Parker? He basically forced Pop to sit him out in the 2nd half against OKC game 6. I agree that the franchise player has to lead by example on both sides of the ball, which Melo nor Harden have never even tried to. Westbrook is different, he will ballhawk :confusedshrug: Although I agree, he is sometimes a chucker.

[SillyRabbit]

Than why bring up Westbrook in the original post? Westbrook is capable of taking over a game on both sides of the court. Did you watch what he did to Tony Parker? He basically forced Pop to sit him out to close the Thunder out. I agree that the franchise player has to lead by example on both sides of the ball, which Melo nor Harden have never even tried to. Westbrook is different, he will ballhawk :confusedshrug: Although I agree, he is sometimes a chucker.

This.

Westbrook is a top 5 player in the NBA, he could easily lead a team on a deep playoff run.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Fisher (alltime playoff games leader)
Wafer
Ariza
Gasol (2x champion)
Bynum

Odom (6MoY), Farmar, Vujacic, Brown, Walton

Phil (winningest playoff coach)


"25 wins tops" :roll:

That team is at least a second round team in the western conference at that time. Gasol/Wafer >>> Kobe/Kwame.

Gasol is better bro. Just deal with it.

:roll:

Sorry brochief, Fisher plays in Utah, say hello to Smush Parker! Ariza? Try Luke Walton. 2009-2011 Bynum (who misses 30+ games anyway)? Uh uh, you get him as a rookie.

25 wins is generous.