Why did Larry Bird regress so much in the playoffs?

[Rocketswin2013]

Genuine question. It happened virtually every year he played. His stats plummeted across the board all but two times in his career. And one of the two times, it didn't"plummet" it only regressed slightly.



This guy has only played up to his regular season par in an entire playoff season one time in his entire "GOAT caliber" career.


Why does he get a pass? :hammerhead:

[NumberSix]

The playoffs are harder than the regular season.

[LeBird]

Bird's playoff stats are almost identical to his regular season stats. It's his shooting % that suffered a bit.

Regular season:

24.3 PPG 10.0 RPG 6.3 APG 1.7 SPG 0.8 BPG; FG% .496 3P% .376 FT% .886

Playoffs:

23.8 PPG 10.3 RPG 6.5 APG 1.8 SPG 0.9 BPG; FG% .472 3P% .321 FT% .890

It should also be noted that he played in a legendary tough conference/era.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Because most of the people that claim Bird is by far superior to Lebron still are those that never actually watched Bird play but are just bran haters :lol

[NumberSix]

Bird's playoff stats are almost identical to his regular season stats. It's his shooting % that suffered a bit.

Regular season:

24.3 PPG 10.0 RPG 6.3 APG 1.7 SPG 0.8 BPG; FG% .496 3P% .376 FT% .886

Playoffs:

23.8 PPG 10.3 RPG 6.5 APG 1.8 SPG 0.9 BPG; FG% .472 3P% .321 FT% .890

It should also be noted that he played in a legendary tough conference/era.
He also played most of his career in a no-defense era though. I don't know why people always overlook that about the 80's.

It wasn't until the late 80s when people were like "hey! What the hell are these Pistons doing? They're actually playing defense. That's not part of the game. These guys are jerks".

[kamil]

Because most of the people that claim Bird is by far superior to Lebron still are those that never actually watched Bird play but are just bran haters :lol

You think this forum doesn't have long time fans that predate you as a simple sperm? GTFO here kid.

[Kvnzhangyay]

You think this forum doesn't have long time fans that predate you as a simple sperm? GTFO here kid.


I highly doubt you are one of them looking at your profile and the way you talk lmfao. At least make it less obvious

[Asukal]

He also played most of his career in a no-defense era though. I don't know why people always overlook that about the 80's.

It wasn't until the late 80s when people were like "hey! What the hell are these Pistons doing? They're actually playing defense. That's not part of the game. These guys are jerks".

I guess the 50s-70s era must've been a negative defense era right? :rolleyes:

[inclinerator]

I guess the 50s-70s era must've been a negative defense era right? :rolleyes:
of course, inflated stats, like ur local ymca gym

[cltcfn2924]

He also played most of his career in a no-defense era though. I don't know why people always overlook that about the 80's.

It wasn't until the late 80s when people were like "hey! What the hell are these Pistons doing? They're actually playing defense. That's not part of the game. These guys are jerks".


What are you talking about? They gave up 100 pts. per game. They were just dirty, filthy dirty.

[Asukal]

of course, inflated stats, like ur local ymca gym

You sir are a genius! :applause: :rolleyes:

[moe94]

I highly doubt you are one of them looking at your profile and the way you talk lmfao. At least make it less obvious
:roll:

[NumberSix]

I guess the 50s-70s era must've been a negative defense era right? :rolleyes:
50s? No

[SHAQisGOAT]

Looking at his prime/healthy years (bolded when higher):

1980: 21.3 / 10.4 / 4.5 / 1.7 / 0.6; .538 --> 21.3 / 11.2 / 4.7 / 1.6 / 0.9;, .511

1981: 21.2 / 10.9 / 5.5 / 2.0 / 0.8; .528 --> 21.9 / 14.0 / 6.1 / 2.3 / 1.0; .532

1982: 22.9 / 10.9 / 5.8 / 1.9 / 0.9; .557 --> 17.8 / 12.5 / 5.6 / 1.9 / 1.4; .474

*1983: 23.6 / 11.0 / 5.8 / 1.9 / 0.9; .561 --> 20.5 / 12.5 / 6.8 / 2.2 / 0.5; .478

1984: 24.2 / 10.1 / 6.6 / 1.8 / 0.9; .552 --> 27.5 / 11.0 / 5.9 / 2.3 / 1.2; .607

**1985: 28.7 / 10.5 / 6.6 / 1.6 / 1.2; .585 --> 26.0 / 9.1 / 5.8 / 1.7 / 1.0; .536

1986: 25.8 / 9.8 / 6.8 / 2.0 / 0.6; .580 --> 25.9 / 9.3 / 8.2 / 2.1 / 0.6; .615

1987: 28.1 / 9.2 / 7.6 / 1.8 / 0.9; .612 --> 27.0 / 10.0 / 7.2 / 1.2 / 0.8; .577

***1988: 29.9 / 9.3 / 6.1 / 1.6 / 0.8; .608 --> 24.5 / 8.8 / 6.8 / 2.1 / 0.8; .538

*injured, didn't even play one game, still went out there and played when he shouldn't have

**injured elbow entering the playoffs then severely injured his right hand in a bar fight

***had to get back and ankles surgeries but still played that post-season


So yea, he raised his numbers plenty of times (his RS stats are almost indentical to his PS stats, overall throughout his career), most importantly he mostly came through and raised his game (but you wouldn't know nothing about that). What goes down mostly is his shooting %'s but that happens to most players (even most great-ones) in the Playoffs, especially when facing some great teams, Larry still upped that and his points, plenty.

I won't even talk about after 1988, dude was playing under conditions most wouldn't go through and was just a shell of his former self but if you wanna bring it up go ahead, all I know is that your favorite player wouldn't even be in the league anymore, Larry was still putting in work, still really good impact on a Celtics team that wasn't much at all, anymore.
Even after 1986 they just were just falling apart and didn't even have decent bench players, Bird had to carry most weight.

Other than that, just look at the facts, don't even dwell on numbers, son:
-That man stepped in as a rookie and took them from the 2nd worst record to the best record and the ECF, with basically the same roster;
-2nd year, Cowens was gone, they added Parish who was already 27 and never viewed as all that, he leads them to a championship;
-1984 with everybody underperforming in the post-season, he steps up, leads them in FG%, FT%, points, rebounds, assists and steals while winning the title against some stacked teams, mainly showtime Lakers;
-1986 with McHale hitting his prime, older players still good, Ainge getting better, Walton back for one last run, great teammates, everything clicking, what happens? He leads what many call the GOAT team, plays some of the best basketball ever, unreal, they demolish everything... Imagine Larry with the Lakers from the get-go, no chance, like the 60's Celtics dynasty in the 80's;
-He led them to 4 Finals in a row, in the most competitive era, in the most competitive conference, and won 3 rings as the main man, overall;
-When he got injured they never amounted to nothing again, shit even when he was out in 1989 they were considerably worse, even with Reggie Lewis playing, then he returns as a shell and made them considerably better.
....
And he wasn't playing against some shitty-ass teams :oldlol: Showtime Lakers were stacked like crazy, 76ers were incredible, Bucks would've gotten to the Finals in a different era, Bad Boys then came along... In 9 healthy seasons he beat 10 50+W teams, LeBron, for example, not even 7 in 11 seasons, lmfao... Not to mention 60+W teams, those teams I've mentioned before are some of the greatest ever, dynasties there too, teams that would absolutely rape a weaker league.

So, he gets a pass? What pass? If anything plenty of ignorant people (such as yourself, right now) call him out for having some "bad games" here and there, more than most other players, saying shit about stats or whatever when y'all didn't even watch the games and he was about much more than that, never statpadded either... Oh and they never even mention his injuries or most likely don't even know about them because he wasn't publicizing it (ala MJ) or trying to express them walking around the court like a bitch (ala LeBron).

Ignorant kids these days underrate players like Larry like a motha****er, talking shit they are blind to, than go on and suck Bron's dick for nothing, if they had to :lol
I don't even know why you post about shit you know nothing of, just let it go, I've seen you post some of the dumbest, most ignorant stuff I've ever read about basketball and its history :rolleyes: :facepalm :oldlol: Stop being silly, go to some kid shit :hammerhead: Shit, just stop posting, you offer nothing really, just bullshit and hate...

[SHAQisGOAT]

He also played most of his career in a no-defense era though. I don't know why people always overlook that about the 80's.

It wasn't until the late 80s when people were like "hey! What the hell are these Pistons doing? They're actually playing defense. That's not part of the game. These guys are jerks".

I've asked you this so many times... Explain to me why are DRtg's almost indentical though?? :confusedshrug: Oh and back then they actually played clearly better team offense, which gets harder to defend against, look at what the old-ass Spurs are doing with that :oldlol:

[played0ut]

24.3 PPG 10.0 RPG 6.3 APG 1.7 SPG 0.8 BPG; FG% .496 3P% .376 FT% .886

Playoffs:

23.8 PPG 10.3 RPG 6.5 APG 1.8 SPG 0.9 BPG; FG% .472 3P% .321 FT% .890



So...by 'stats plummeting' OP meant maintained the same impact http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/series2/funone3kk.gif

[moe94]

Why are you not using bold? Who hacked you? Who are you?

[NumberSix]

I've asked you this so many times... Explain to me why are DRtg's almost indentical though?? :confusedshrug: Oh and back then they actually played clearly better team offense, which gets harder to defend against, look at what the old-ass Spurs are doing with that :oldlol:
This seasons Miami Heat had the most efficient offense in NBA history. Defensive metrics are utterly meaningsless

[97 bulls]

I've been preaching this for the longest. Larry Bird is overrated in a sense that his supporters constantly make it seem as if he was this beast that always dominated his opponents and won. When the fact is in the 10 years that he played, he never had a team that was worse than second best in the league. But he only managed to win three times? And most feel one (84) was more a matter of the Lakers beating themselves. The Celtics beat no one special in 86. And Bird needed Maxwell to bail him out in the other.

[NumberSix]

Why are you not using bold? Who hacked you? Who are you?
Got to be good looking cause he's so hard to see

[Rose'sACL]

Why are you not using bold? Who hacked you? Who are you?
His parents probably listened to him for the first time which made him more confident that people might listen to him even if he doesn't shout or writes in bold.

[NumberSix]

I've been preaching this for the longest. Larry Bird is overrated in a sense that his supporters constantly make it seem as if he was this beast that always dominated his opponents and won. When the fact is in the 10 years that he played, he never had a team that was worse than second best in the league. But he only managed to win three times? And most feel one (84) was more a matter of the Lakers beating themselves. The Celtics beat no one special in 86. And Bird needed Maxwell to bail him out in the other.
Bird was the best player on an altogether great team in the same way Duncan is.

[moe94]

His parents probably listened to him for the first time which made him more confident that people might listen to him even if he doesn't shout or writes in bold.

I wasn't clowning. I was confused. I enjoy his bold posts because I know who it is right away.

[Rose'sACL]

I wasn't clowning. I was confused. I enjoy his bold posts because I know who it is right away.
the first time i told him not to write in bold as it was hard to read, he got angry. that is why i never take any of his posts seriously. Guy has confidence issues. i am just glad that he is making progress.

[LeBird]

He also played most of his career in a no-defense era though. I don't know why people always overlook that about the 80's.

It wasn't until the late 80s when people were like "hey! What the hell are these Pistons doing? They're actually playing defense. That's not part of the game. These guys are jerks".

Nonsense.


I've been preaching this for the longest. Larry Bird is overrated in a sense that his supporters constantly make it seem as if he was this beast that always dominated his opponents and won. When the fact is in the 10 years that he played, he never had a team that was worse than second best in the league. But he only managed to win three times? And most feel one (84) was more a matter of the Lakers beating themselves. The Celtics beat no one special in 86. And Bird needed Maxwell to bail him out in the other.

Unlike Jordan, Bird actually, actively, made his team great. Celtics were a 29 team before Bird. Who were Parish and McHale before Bird? If a player defined his team more than Bird I haven't really seen it; he helped turn those guys into the best passing team...maybe ever.

[NumberSix]

Nonsense.
Defense in the 80s was fυcking garbage. If you think otherwise, you're not living in reality. 80s defense was the equivalent of current centers. Weak era for that particular aspect of the game.

[played0ut]

I've been preaching this for the longest. Larry Bird is overrated in a sense that his supporters constantly make it seem as if he was this beast that always dominated his opponents and won. When the fact is in the 10 years that he played, he never had a team that was worse than second best in the league. But he only managed to win three times? And most feel one (84) was more a matter of the Lakers beating themselves. The Celtics beat no one special in 86. And Bird needed Maxwell to bail him out in the other.

why can't he be a beast who dominated his opponents with elite help?

Consider that he was first option with the highest stats on a team with beasts. And was their leader. Does that not tell you what cloth he was cut from?

That can't be considered overrated.

[Rocketswin2013]

Like I said, Larry Bird had only two playoff runs where he either played 'great' or(and) to his own standard....

[97 bulls]

Bird was the best player on an altogether great team in the same way Duncan is.
Yep. And Duncan has won more. Basically every player thats been remotely close to Birds position has won much more than him.

[LeBird]

Defense in the 80s was fυcking garbage. If you think otherwise, you're not living in reality. 80s defense was the equivalent of current centers. Weak era for that particular aspect of the game.

You're making a statement, not an argument. Let's hear it.


why can't he be a beast who dominated his opponents with elite help?

Consider that he was first option with the highest stats on a team with beasts. And was their leader. Does that not tell you what cloth he was cut from?

That can't be considered overrated.

Bird lead his team in I don't know how many categories. But yes, the Celtics were a great team. You had to be to win rings in that era.


Like I said, Larry Bird had only two playoff runs where he either played 'great' or(and) to his own standard....

Are you stupid? How can that be the case when his numbers are basically identical - in many facets better in the playoffs? And these include his injured years.


Bird's playoff stats are almost identical to his regular season stats. It's his shooting % that suffered a bit.

Regular season:

24.3 PPG 10.0 RPG 6.3 APG 1.7 SPG 0.8 BPG; FG% .496 3P% .376 FT% .886

Playoffs:

23.8 PPG 10.3 RPG 6.5 APG 1.8 SPG 0.9 BPG; FG% .472 3P% .321 FT% .890

It should also be noted that he played in a legendary tough conference/era.

[NumberSix]

You're making a statement, not an argument. Let's hear it
There's no argument to make. We're talking about defense here. It's not like offense where you can display a bunch of statistical facts to prove your argument. It's like asking me to make an argument as why woman A is more attractive than woman B. There's no rational debate. Only using your eyes.

[LeBird]

There's no argument to make. We're talking about defense here. It's not like offense where you can display a bunch of statistical facts to prove your argument. It's like asking me to make an argument as why woman A is more attractive than woman B. There's no rational debate. Only using your eyes.

You know what that means? Your eyes can tell you whatever bullshit you want to believe.

The reason stats are kept are because of the fact that your eyes/memory are notoriously bad.

[97 bulls]

Nonsense.



Unlike Jordan, Bird actually, actively, made his team great. Celtics were a 29 team before Bird. Who were Parish and McHale before Bird? If a player defined his team more than Bird I haven't really seen it; he helped turn those guys into the best passing team...maybe ever.
We've had this conversation. There was more to the Celtics resurgence than just Birds arrival.

Jordan took what was a 55 win team and improved them by 17 games. Good enough for the best record ever.

Or joined a Bulls team that was on pace for 44 wins and improved them to a 57 win oace.

[97 bulls]

You know what that means? Your eyes can tell you whatever bullshit you want to believe.

The reason stats are kept are because of the fact that your eyes/memory are notoriously bad.
But stats dont tell the whole story.

[kennethgriffin]

lebron gets 2-3 easy rounds of sh*t teams to beat up on

bird was facing legendary teams and players like malone/erving 76ers, the bad boy pistons and michael jordan/dominique wilkins



:roll: :lol :oldlol: :biggums:

[LeBird]

We've had this conversation. There was more to the Celtics resurgence than just Birds arrival.

Yeah, I know, we've been privy to your 'arguments'.


Jordan took what was a 55 win team and improved them by 17 games. Good enough for the best record ever.

Or joined a Bulls team that was on pace for 44 wins and improved them to a 57 win oace.

No he didn't, they also had Rodman...you know, the greatest rebounder of all time, one of the greatest defenders of all time and statistically one of the most significantly important players of all time. Jordan couldn't even take the 2nd worst team in the league and improve them by 17, yet you're saying he improved the best that much? GTFOH.


But stats dont tell the whole story.

There are two unreliable arguments:

Those that rely solely on stats and those that rely solely on observation.

[NumberSix]

You know what that means? Your eyes can tell you whatever bullshit you want to believe.

The reason stats are kept are because of the fact that your eyes/memory are notoriously bad.
Defensive stats and offensive stats are not equals.

[Kvnzhangyay]

You know what that means? Your eyes can tell you whatever bullshit you want to believe.

The reason stats are kept are because of the fact that your eyes/memory are notoriously bad.

That's absolutely true, but there is no good way via stats to measure defense

[1987_Lakers]

We've had this conversation. There was more to the Celtics resurgence than just Birds arrival.

Jordan took what was a 55 win team and improved them by 17 games. Good enough for the best record ever.

Or joined a Bulls team that was on pace for 44 wins and improved them to a 57 win oace.

You are such a hypocrite. In other threads you talk about how people Idolize Jordan too much and how people don't give enough credit to the team around him. You even use the '94 season as an example to how well Chicago played that year without Jordan. Now in this thread you are saying the opposite.:oldlol:

[Rocketswin2013]

Let me get to my laptop....

[mr4speed]

I've been preaching this for the longest. Larry Bird is overrated in a sense that his supporters constantly make it seem as if he was this beast that always dominated his opponents and won. When the fact is in the 10 years that he played, he never had a team that was worse than second best in the league. But he only managed to win three times? And most feel one (84) was more a matter of the Lakers beating themselves. The Celtics beat no one special in 86. And Bird needed Maxwell to bail him out in the other.

Needed Maxwell to bail him out? That is ridiculous! Look at the 81 finals stats-Maxwell = 17.7 pts/gm, 9.5 reb/gm and 2.8 assist/gm. Bird was 15.3 pts/gm, 15.3 reb/gm and 7.0 assists/gm. Who did more? Bird. Who was the best player? Bird. Who was robbed of the FMVP? Bird. Who was the media favorite at that point? Maxwell. Max was seen as colorful, outspoken, a good interview-and he was, but Bird was clearly the better player. Bird at that time shunned the press, did not do interviews, really hated reporters and did not trust them - he had an inferiority complex with the media - in part because he was comfortable not doing ANY interviews in college. These are excuses but the truth was he hated to talk about his father's suicide, his failed marriage, his failure to survive at Indiana University, all of these were things that could be asked about. Look at film of Bird in the final game 6 of that 81 finals. The commentary on the game is about Bird hitting clutch shot after clutch shot and then icing the game with a late 3 pointer in the corner. Bird drew opponents best defender EVERY game. For Houston in 81 it was Robert Reid. Bird had 2 games where he only scored 8 points but was content to feed Maxwell and work the mismatch and pound the boards. Bird drew Bobby Jones vs Sixers or DR J. and vs Bucks it was Paul Pressey. Against the Lakers it was Cooper, Detroit was Rodman, the Bulls = Scottie Pippen and the Hawks = Dominique. Do you see a pattern here? EVERY team in the playoffs were the best teams that year and the focal point of stopping the Celts was on #1 - How do we stop Bird?

[LeBird]

Defensive stats and offensive stats are not equals.

Is this a retort because it doesn't make sense. No one claimed as such nor is it relevant to state as such.


That's absolutely true, but there is no good way via stats to measure defense

I'd argue there are, even if their reliability is limited. However, one has to make an intelligible argument. The claim, "no defence era" because "it just is" is too stupid to waste time on. So they played basketball for decades and only got the idea of defense in the 90s? Hmm, no.

[LeBird]

Needed Maxwell to bail him out? That is ridiculous! Look at the 81 finals stats-Maxwell = 17.7 pts/gm, 9.5 reb/gm and 2.8 assist/gm. Bird was 15.3 pts/gm, 15.3 reb/gm and 7.0 assists/gm. Who did more? Bird. Who was the best player? Bird. Who was robbed of the FMVP? Bird. Who was the media favorite at that point? Maxwell. Max was seen as colorful, outspoken, a good interview-and he was, but Bird was clearly the better player. Bird at that time shunned the press, did not do interviews, really hated reporters and did not trust them - he had an inferiority complex with the media - in part because he was comfortable not doing ANY interviews in college. These are excuses but the truth was he hated to talk about his father's suicide, his failed marriage, his failure to survive at Indiana University, all of these were things that could be asked about. Look at film of Bird in the final game 6 of that 81 finals. The commentary on the game is about Bird hitting clutch shot after clutch shot and then icing the game with a late 3 pointer in the corner. Bird drew opponents best defender EVERY game. For Houston in 81 it was Robert Reid. Bird had 2 games where he only scored 8 points but was content to feed Maxwell and work the mismatch and pound the boards. Bird drew Bobby Jones vs Sixers or DR J. and vs Bucks it was Paul Pressey. Against the Lakers it was Cooper, Detroit was Rodman, the Bulls = Scottie Pippen and the Hawks = Dominique. Do you see a pattern here? EVERY team in the playoffs were the best teams that year and the focal point of stopping the Celts was on #1 - How do we stop Bird?

Anyone using the Maxwell FMVP argument automatically is written off as an idiot in my books.

As you say, Bird had to pound the boards and he almost outrebounded Moses Malone (one of the GOAT rebounders) for the series. Maxwell's only tedious claim was that he averaged 2.4 ppg more. :lol

[SHAQisGOAT]

The playoffs are harder than the regular season.


Because most of the people that claim Bird is by far superior to Lebron still are those that never actually watched Bird play but are just bran haters :lol


You know when it REALLY gets hard, especially today after getting through the WEAK-ASS eastern conference (with a team stacked af compared to the rest) :lol ??? The Finals.

Larry Bird -

RS: 24.3 / 10.0 / 6.3 / 1.7 / 0.8 on 50 / 38 / 89 (%)
PS: 23.8 / 10.3 / 6.5 / 1.8 / 0.9 on 47 / 32 / 89 (%)

Finals:
31 games, 16W-15L
23.1 / 11.7 / 6.0 / 2.0 / 0.8 on 46 / 42 / 87 (%), 42.8 min


LeBron James -

RS: 27.5 / 7.2 / 6.9 / 1.7 / 0.8 on 50 / 34 / 75 (%)
PS: 27.9 / 8.4 / 6.5 / 1.7 / 0.9 on 48 / 33 / 75 (%)

Finals (not counting this year's):
22 games, 10-12
23.4 / 9.0 / 7.0 / 1.7 / 0.6 on 44 / 29 / 75 (%), 43.4 min

And Bird was playing against one of the GOAT dynasties/team, showtime Lakers with the likes of Kareem, Magic, Worthy, Wilkes, Scott, Cooper, Nixon, McAdoo, Green, Rambis... That would win vs the the Heat or any team that they beat, shit I see the 1986 Rockets with Hakeem/Sampson beating the Heat. In the Playoffs, in 9 healthy/prime seasons, Bird beat 10 50+W teams, Bron didn't even reach 7 in 11 years :oldlol: Not to mention, Larry was facing GOAT teams/dynasties. Plus LeBron didn't even start his decline yet, imagine when he'll do. Oh and Larry didn't statpad, win guaranteed he was out, unavoidable loss he was out. Bird's sophomore Finals performance with a team that previously had one of the worst records in the league (adding Parish, removing Cowens) is better than LeBron's Finals performance in his prime (2011) after joining two top10 players in the league (one top5) :roll:

....

Bet all that makes you feel mad and salty as hell, right? :lol Go play, little children.

[Rocketswin2013]

@Mr4Speed
:roll:

Larry Bird when he won his first title, wasn't even the best player on his team tbh....Maxwell obviously was(as the FMVP award showed.) And he had probably the most underwhelming Finals run for a "GOAT nominee" ever. :roll:

He got BACKPACKED by Cedric Maxwell in the NBA Finals.

Maxwell: 56% shooting, 17.7 PPG, 10 RPG, 3 APG, 1 BPG, In just 37 MPG

Bird:41% shooting, 15 PPG, 15 RPG, 7 APG, IN 43 MPG

Maxwell led the team in WS too. :hammerhead:

backpacked offensively.

[NumberSix]

Is this a retort because it doesn't make sense. No one claimed as such nor is it relevant to state as such.



I'd argue there are, even if their reliability is limited. However, one has to make an intelligible argument. The claim, "no defence era" because "it just is" is too stupid to waste time on. So they played basketball for decades and only got the idea of defense in the 90s? Hmm, no.
Nobody made such a claim. Defense in the 60's was much tougher than defense in the 90's by a large margin.

Right now is a weak era for centers. If there is a strong era for centers in the future, that doesn't mean it was the first time in NBA history. Things aren't constant. Just because point A and point Z have strong defense doesn't mean all points in between had to have had strong defense too. Obvi.

[ThePhantomCreep]

lebron gets 2-3 easy rounds of sh*t teams to beat up on

bird was facing legendary teams and players like malone/erving 76ers, the bad boy pistons and michael jordan/dominique wilkins



:roll: :lol :oldlol: :biggums:

Yup. That's why three of LeBron's four finals appearances have been "below standard", with two of them ranking among the worst performances in Finals history.

[NumberSix]

Yup. That's why three of LeBron's four finals appearances have been "below standard", with two of them ranking among the worst performances in Finals history.
How can LeBron's Cavs finals be one of the worst ever when ever other cav had an even worse finals?

[1987_Lakers]

@Mr4Speed
:roll:

Larry Bird when he won his first ittle, wasn't even the best player on his teamtbh.....

'81 Regular Season
Bird - 21 PPG, 11 RPG, 5.5 APG, 2 SPG, 48 FG% (2nd in MVP Voting)
Maxwell - 15 PPG, 6.5 RPG , 3 APG, 59 FG%

'81 Postseason
Bird - 22 PPG - 14 RPG - 6 APG - 2.3 SPG, 47 FG%
Maxwell - 16 PPG - 7 RPG, 3 APG, 58 FG%

Bird also outplayed Maxwell and the league MVP Julius Erving in the '81 ECF which was the REAL NBA Finals.

Troll harder.

[Rocketswin2013]

Then...This...

Regular season Bird, the two years after:Larry Bird: Per Game (1981-82 to 1982-83)

From To G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1982 1983 156 137 37.9 9.3 18.6 .504 0.2 0.8 .256 9.1 17.7 .515 4.4 5.1 .851 2.5 8.4 10.9 5.8 1.9 0.9 3.2 2.8 23.3

Playoff Bird:Larry Bird: Playoffs Per Game (1981-82 to 1982-83)

From To G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1982 1983 18 40.6 7.6 17.9 .425 0.1 0.6 .200 7.5 17.3 .433 3.4 4.1 .824 2.9 9.6 12.5 6.0 2.0 1.1 3.2 3.2 18.7
His PER went from: 23.4 to 18.7 in those two years regular season to playoffs...

His WS/48 went from .215 to .148 :biggums:

TS% from 56% to 47% :biggums:

Why does he get such a pass for this monstrosity?

[SHAQisGOAT]

@Mr4Speed
:roll:

Larry Bird when he won his first ittle, wasn't even the best player on his team tbh....Maxwell obviously was(as the FMVP award showed.) And he had probably the most underwhelming Finals run for a "GOAT nominee" ever. :roll:

He got BACKPACKED by Cedric Maxwell in the NBA Finals.

Maxwell: 56% shooting, 17.7 PPG, 10 RPG, 3 APG, 1 BPG, In just 37 MPG

Bird:41% shooting, 15 PPG, 15 RPG, 7 APG, IN 43 MPG

Maxwell led the team in WS too. :hammerhead:

backpacked offensively.

:biggums:

Bird wasn't far at all in terms of scoring, especially since he took a lot more jumpers than Max and got more attention, then he was miles better in terms of rebounding, passing and even above in defense.

Only player that ever went 15+/15+/7+ in a Finals series, EVER.

Larry was still the 3rd best scorer in the series, almost outrebound Moses Malone, was easily the best playmaker in the series, got Cedric most of his easy bunnies, as he had some great passes and got most attention.

Final game6 he put up 27/13/5, clutch as hell in the 4th.

You didn't even watch the games so you wouldn't know shit about that. YOu really don't know shit about basketball, period, though.

For example...
He had this classic game1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDk9y0Vul5A
And closed out the series in game6 with a really clutch performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoXOAs4Gz5A

In a series more physical, tougher, grittier, more intense than all of today's league combined.

Oh and didn't stapad like your boy LeBron does, even in last years Finals :oldlol:

Most importantly, they WON, with Bird as the main-man... Again, better Finals in his sophomore year, with a previously shitty team, than Bron's 2011, prime Finals while joining two top10 players (one top5) :roll:

Even before the Finals, in the "real" Finals, the ECF... Bird led them from a 3-1 deficit and considerably outplayed the MVP Julius Erving.

Bird was the real MVP, face it, best player and clear leader too. If that Finals happened today, no chance that Maxwell gets FMVP. Where was Cornbread before Bird, when the C's had the 2nd worst record in the league? :lol

Just stop posting, son.. You really love getting owned don't you :rolleyes: :facepalm :lol

[SHAQisGOAT]

This seasons Miami Heat had the most efficient offense in NBA history.

So....... Shitty defense? :confusedshrug:

:oldlol:

[NumberSix]

So....... Shitty defense? :confusedshrug:

:oldlol:
Good defense. Better offense.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I've been preaching this for the longest. Larry Bird is overrated in a sense that his supporters constantly make it seem as if he was this beast that always dominated his opponents and won. When the fact is in the 10 years that he played, he never had a team that was worse than second best in the league. But he only managed to win three times? And most feel one (84) was more a matter of the Lakers beating themselves. The Celtics beat no one special in 86. And Bird needed Maxwell to bail him out in the other.

One of the biggest Bird's haters here, not surprised by that post. You've proven to be pretty ignorant too.

Just mad that Bird was owning your boy Jordan, every single time :oldlol: Dude had to get injured and old, same for the C's, for MJ to be champ :lol Also owned your boy Pippen, even at old age with career ending injuries, and owned Rodman so much that he was salty af, even dunked on Dennis.

:roll:

[SHAQisGOAT]

the first time i told him not to write in bold as it was hard to read, he got angry. that is why i never take any of his posts seriously. Guy has confidence issues. i am just glad that he is making progress.

:rolleyes:

Everytime I reply to you, you're getting owned, face it. Go play...

[NumberSix]

One of the biggest Bird's haters here, not surprised by that post. You've proven to be pretty ignorant too.

Just mad that Bird was owning your boy Jordan, every single time :oldlol: Dude had to get injured and old, same for the C's, for MJ to be champ :lol Also owned your boy Pippen, even at old age with career ending injuries, and owned Rodman so much that he was salty af, even dunked on Dennis.

:roll:
Jordan > Bird > Magic. It's not difficult.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Nonsense.



Unlike Jordan, Bird actually, actively, made his team great. Celtics were a 29 team before Bird. Who were Parish and McHale before Bird? If a player defined his team more than Bird I haven't really seen it; he helped turn those guys into the best passing team...maybe ever.

Don't do him like that... Oh and when Bird left, Celtics dropped by like 15W with Reggie Lewis in his prime, when he came back as a shell, they won like 10 more yet again. Jordan left, they lost 2 less games. :oldlol:

[Rocketswin2013]

Then 84', JUST ONE of his good playoff runs, he didn't regress. But even then LeBron from 2012-2014 slams his best playoffs runs statistically.

Right after the one year break from choking...He did this:

Regular season Bird: in 1985:

Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1984-85 ★ 28 BOS NBA SF 80 77 39.5 11.5 22.0 .522 0.7 1.6 .427 10.8 20.4 .529 5.0 5.7 .882 2.1 8.5 10.5 6.6 1.6 1.2 3.1 2.6 28.7

PLAYOFF BIRD: :roll:

Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1984-85 28 BOS NBA SF 20 20 40.8 9.8 21.3 .461 0.4 1.3 .280 9.5 20.0 .473 6.1 6.8 .890 2.7 6.5 9.1 5.8 1.7 1.0 2.9 2.7 26.0

Per dropped from 26.5 to 20.9

WS/48 from .238 to .155 :roll: :roll: :roll:

TS% from 58% to 53%

And once again, didn't lead his team in WS....:roll:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Defense in the 80s was fυcking garbage. If you think otherwise, you're not living in reality. 80s defense was the equivalent of current centers. Weak era for that particular aspect of the game.


Never even seen a full 80's game :facepalm Stop talking. Again, explain why DRtg's are the same then, fool.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Needed Maxwell to bail him out? That is ridiculous! Look at the 81 finals stats-Maxwell = 17.7 pts/gm, 9.5 reb/gm and 2.8 assist/gm. Bird was 15.3 pts/gm, 15.3 reb/gm and 7.0 assists/gm. Who did more? Bird. Who was the best player? Bird. Who was robbed of the FMVP? Bird. Who was the media favorite at that point? Maxwell. Max was seen as colorful, outspoken, a good interview-and he was, but Bird was clearly the better player. Bird at that time shunned the press, did not do interviews, really hated reporters and did not trust them - he had an inferiority complex with the media - in part because he was comfortable not doing ANY interviews in college. These are excuses but the truth was he hated to talk about his father's suicide, his failed marriage, his failure to survive at Indiana University, all of these were things that could be asked about. Look at film of Bird in the final game 6 of that 81 finals. The commentary on the game is about Bird hitting clutch shot after clutch shot and then icing the game with a late 3 pointer in the corner. Bird drew opponents best defender EVERY game. For Houston in 81 it was Robert Reid. Bird had 2 games where he only scored 8 points but was content to feed Maxwell and work the mismatch and pound the boards. Bird drew Bobby Jones vs Sixers or DR J. and vs Bucks it was Paul Pressey. Against the Lakers it was Cooper, Detroit was Rodman, the Bulls = Scottie Pippen and the Hawks = Dominique. Do you see a pattern here? EVERY team in the playoffs were the best teams that year and the focal point of stopping the Celts was on #1 - How do we stop Bird?


:applause:

[Rocketswin2013]

Bird choked...


BOILED DOWN:

FMVP: Cedric Maxwell

Just another guy: LARRY BIRD


:applause:

[NumberSix]

Never even seen a full 80's game :facepalm Stop talking. Again, explain why DRtg's are the same then, fool.
Because the players were overall less talented. Less talent on offense resulting in it appearing as though the defense was doing its job.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Good defense. Better offense.

80's = easily better team offense... DRtg's about the same, must mean better defense also :confusedshrug: Yup :rockon:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Larry Bird = GOAT

Not really, still top5 with a top5 peak/prime. But glad to see you've come a long, got schooled, learned some, changed your mind :cheers:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Because the players were overall less talented. Less talent on offense resulting in it appearing as though the defense was doing its job.

Right :rolleyes: 80's arguably the GOAT era, face it.. but less talented players :rolleyes: :facepalm

[Rocketswin2013]

He's backpedaling now.

I see nobody dared to touch one of those post on Bird's ridiculous regression.

And by the way, I didn't even do 1987, or 1988.

LeBron > Bird.

My work here is done. :pimp:

[NumberSix]

Right :rolleyes: 80's arguably the GOAT era, face it.. but less talented players :rolleyes: :facepalm
80s goat era? Lol. I've actually never in my life heard that claim. :roll:

[DMAVS41]

Bird was/remains without a doubt one of the handful of best players ever...and his peak remains something truly special.

However, if he played his entire career today, his playoff failures and play would get far more scrutiny.

There is simply no way around this.

Still, at this very moment in time, should be ranked over Lebron though. Lebron needs either more longevity or another title to surpass Bird in the all time rankings.

[SHAQisGOAT]

80s goat era? Lol. I've actually never in my life heard that claim. :roll:

:rolleyes:

What, you live under a rock? Most people would agree. Read some articles, threads on internet forums, players, experts, coaches, analysts..... Stop trolling.

[SHAQisGOAT]

My work here is done. :pimp:


If by that you mean spreading ignorance around and making yourself look like a complete fool... Great job :cheers:

Now stop posting about shit you know nothing of :rolleyes: :facepalm :lol

[NumberSix]

Bird was/remains without a doubt one of the handful of best players ever...and his peak remains something truly special.

However, if he played his entire career today, his playoff failures and play would get far more scrutiny.

There is simply no way around this.

Still, at this very moment in time, should be ranked over Lebron though. Lebron needs either more longevity or another title to surpass Bird in the all time rankings.
Did bird have a 16 year career or something that I'm unaware of?

[DMAVS41]

Did bird have a 16 year career or something that I'm unaware of?

No, but his peak/prime play was probably better than you realize.

[LAZERUSS]

The reality was, when Bird faced elite defensive teams in the post-season (or elite defenders like Michael Cooper), his numbers declined considerably.

BUT, MJ's numbers, particularly his FG%'s, dropped dramatically against the Bad Boys in his first three playoff series against them. He had post-season series against the Knicks of .400 FG%. He had a post-season series against the Heat of 38%. And in his last three Finals, he shot .455, .427, and yes, .415.

Shaq's numbers dropped off the cliff in four of his five playoff series against the Spurs.

And Kareem very seldom faced elite defenders in his entire post-season career. BUT, a PEAK Kareem, in his three greatest statistical seasons of his career, faced two of the three greatest defensive centers in NBA history, and in a span of five straight series. Guess what? A PEAK Kareem, who in that same span averaged 32.6 ppg on .563 shooting against the NBA.... 26.8 ppg, on get this... a .456 FG%. And then, against Wilt, in Chamberlain's very last season, and covering SIX H2H games, he shot... .450 (while Wilt shot .737 against him.)

That's why I can only chuckle when these idiots claim that Chamberlain "declined" in his post-season play. The reality was, a prime Wilt, from '60 thru '69, faced Russell and Thurmond in 61 of his 98 playoff games, or nearly TWO-THIRDS of them.

Had Bird battled Cooper, or the Bad Boys, in 60% of his post-season games; or MJ faced the peak Bad Boys in 60% of his post-season games; or Shaq battled the best of the Spurs in 60% of his playoff games; or Kareem faced a GOAT defensive center in 60% of his playoff games...does ANYONE honestly believe that their numbers would have even come within the other side of the ocean, as compared to their regular season numbers? C'mon.

[ArbitraryWater]

Agreed... I find it weird. He gave you a great 4 year run from '84-'87, but besides that he was really mediocre in the post-season.. He's overrated, no doubt.

[NumberSix]

No, but his peak/prime play was probably better than you realize.
There's no case for it being better than LeBron's. The stats don't lie. And outside of the stats, I don't think you actually argue against LeBron being quite obviously superior defensively.

[DMAVS41]

There's no case for it being better than LeBron's. The stats don't lie. And outside of the stats, I don't think you actually argue against LeBron being quite obviously superior defensively.

Yea...I'm not as high on Bird as most.

I just think he had some attributes to his overall game that are hard to measure. Very similar to Dirk in this way.

Not like I'm going to argue with someone ranking Lebron higher...I just personally need to see a little bit more before I move Lebron to a higher tier.

[SHAQisGOAT]

The reality was, when Bird faced elite defensive teams in the post-season (or elite defenders like Michael Cooper), his numbers declined considerably.

BUT, MJ's numbers, particularly his FG%'s, dropped dramatically against the Bad Boys in his first three playoff series against them. He had post-season series against the Knicks of .400 FG%. He had a post-season series against the Heat of 38%. And in his last three Finals, he shot .455, .427, and yes, .415.

Shaq's numbers dropped off the cliff in four of his five playoff series against the Spurs.

And Kareem very seldom faced elite defenders in his entire post-season career. BUT, a PEAK Kareem, in his three greatest statistical seasons of his career, faced two of the three greatest defensive centers in NBA history, and in a span of five straight series. Guess what? A PEAK Kareem, who in that same span averaged 32.6 ppg on .563 shooting against the NBA.... 26.8 ppg, on get this... a .456 FG%. And then, against Wilt, in Chamberlain's very last season, and covering SIX H2H games, he shot... .450 (while Wilt shot .737 against him.)

That's why I can only chuckle when these idiots claim that Chamberlain "declined" in his post-season play. The reality was, a prime Wilt, from '60 thru '69, faced Russell and Thurmond in 61 of his 98 playoff games, or nearly TWO-THIRDS of them.

Had Bird battled Cooper, or the Bad Boys, in 60% of his post-season games; or MJ faced the peak Bad Boys in 60% of his post-season games; or Shaq battled the best of the Spurs in 60% of his playoff games; or Kareem faced a GOAT defensive center in 60% of his playoff games...does ANYONE honestly believe that their numbers would have even come within the other side of the ocean, as compared to their regular season numbers? C'mon.


Right :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Let's look at some examples, shall we... Since you love numbers..


->1981 ECF vs 76ers, with the 2nd ranked defense in the league
guarded by:
Bobby Jones; all-time great defender, all-defensive 1st, 6'9, lanky, great athlete
Caldwell Jones; all-defensive 1st, legit 7', really good athlete and mobile, good shot-blocker
Julius Erving; athletic freak, great team-defender, good enough on-ball
(Dawkins in the paint)

Series Average: 26.7 / 13.4 / 4.6 apg on 48.6% FG / 55.4% TS


->1984 Finals vs the mighty showtime Lakers and "your boy" Cooper
guarded by:
Michael Cooper; all-time great defender, all-defensive 1st, great athlete
James Worthy; 6'9 and really athletic, strong, good defender
(Kareem in the paint)

Series Average: 27.4 / 14.0 / 3.6 apg on 48.4% FG / 59.5% TS


->1986 ECF vs Bucks, with the 2nd ranked defense in the league
guarded by:
Paul Pressey; all-defensive 1st, 6'6 athletic player
Sindey Moncrief; all-time great defender, 6'4, strong, great athletic, all-defensive 1st
Terry Cummings; 6'9, big, built like stone, really athletic
(Lister in the paint)

Series Average: 25.3 / 9.5 / 8 on 55 % FG / 66.7% TS


->1987 ECF vs Bad Boys (5th ranked defense in the league)
guarded by:
Dennis Rodman; all-time great defender, already really good, big and strong
Adrian Dantley; never known for his defense but was trying much more, really strong so caused trouble in the post
John Salley; really athletic 6'11 player, great shotblocker
Rick Mahorn; they even put Rick on Bird to rough him up and use strength in the post, didn't really work, Larry knew what to do
(Laimbeer, Mahorn in the paint)

Series average: 27.1 / 10.4 / 7.6 on 49% FG / 57.2% TS

...

Sorry to kill your whole point... Come up with some bullshit essay next though. Oh and keep trying to prop up your boy Wilt, trying to deviate from his choking. Post some bullshit-ass numbers, funny because you claim to have been around forever, watched all the games, but only talk about (certain) "numbers".

[SHAQisGOAT]

There's no case for it being better than LeBron's. The stats don't lie. And outside of the stats, I don't think you actually argue against LeBron being quite obviously superior defensively.

Bird's peak/prime > LeBron's peak/prime

Anyone that knows his shit and has seen enough from both, will tell you the exact same, simple.

[Rocketswin2013]

Bird's peak/prime > LeBron's peak/prime

Anyone that knows his shit and has seen enough from both, will tell you the exact same, simple.
Ok.............So where exactly do you rank Bird all-time.............

[NumberSix]

Bird's peak/prime > LeBron's peak/prime

Anyone that knows his shit and has seen enough from both, will tell you the exact same, simple.
Racist

[Rose'sACL]

Bird's peak/prime > LeBron's peak/prime

Anyone that knows his shit and has seen enough from both, will tell you the exact same, simple.
Sorry but lebron wins it because of his defense. His playoff defense is some of the best ever for a win player.

[Rocketswin2013]

This guy is the single most delusional, nostalgic, stan I've ever witnessed.

He will throw all of Bird's playoff chokes in entire seasons out of the window and choose a few series and say he's better than LeBron who has already slammed peak Bird's best runs...Not even counting this year's historical run.....

[fpliii]

I haven't looked too closely recently, but two points:

1) Isn't the primary "regression" in his shooting numbers, or was it across the board?
2) The East was the much better conference in the 80s. Bird had to go through the Bucks or Sixers every year early on, and the Pistons became dominant at the end of the decade. The West was pure trash for the most part, so playing in one conference vs the other hurt his numbers.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Ok.............So where exactly do you rank Bird all-time.............

As far as career, considering everything? 4th or 5th. (think I got LeBron in my top10 already though, no less than 11th but I'd most likely have him higher)

As far as overall peak as a player? Top5 along with Shaq, KAJ, Jordan and Wilt. (LeBron's close behind though)

[atljonesbro]

Bird's peak/prime > LeBron's peak/prime

Anyone that knows his shit and has seen enough from both, will tell you the exact same, simple.
You bolding all your posts doesn't make it any more valid, in fact it makes me ignore everything you say. Impossible to take your posts seriously :oldlol:

[atljonesbro]

As far as career, considering everything? 4th or 5th. (think I got LeBron in my top10 already though, no less than 11th but I'd most likely have him higher)

As far as overall peak as a player? Top5 along with Shaq, KAJ, Jordan and Wilt. (LeBron's close behind though)
LeBron is easily top 5 with a championship and FMVP. No argument to make against him AT ALL.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Sorry but lebron wins it because of his defense. His playoff defense is some of the best ever for a win player.

Bird played really good D, you don't even know it though.
Celtics went from one of the worst to one of the best offensive teams when he (and coach Fitch) came around, with basically the same cast, he led the league in DWS and was 6th in DRtg.
Led in DWS 4 times, top5 7 times; 2nd in DRtg once, 6 times in the top10.
In the Playoffs? More of the same or even better. Most DWS in the 80s.
Other forwards that did that were Timmy, Rodman, KG or Pippen... Guess that's just a fluke though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpEAZMT5t_U
He had big impact on defense, that's why he was a big time winner and changed teams around, also. So ****ing underrated defensively, not even funny :facepalm

Add that to his overall offense + rebounding + overall intangibles is enough to put him above Bron, prime for prime.

[SHAQisGOAT]

You bolding all your posts doesn't make it any more valid, in fact it makes me ignore everything you say. Impossible to take your posts seriously :oldlol:

Better than being an ignorant child thinking he knows it all :facepalm

Say you're gonna ignore my posts but then keep rplying?? You're mad as hell :roll:

[Rocketswin2013]

I haven't looked too closely recently, but two points:

1) Isn't the primary "regression" in his shooting numbers, or was it across the board?
2) The East was the much better conference in the 80s. Bird had to go through the Bucks or Sixers every year early on, and the Pistons became dominant at the end of the decade. The West was pure trash for the most part, so playing in one conference vs the other hurt his numbers.
Across the board mainly.

[SHAQisGOAT]

This guy is the single most delusional, nostalgic, stan I've ever witnessed.

He will throw all of Bird's playoff chokes in entire seasons out of the window and choose a few series and say he's better than LeBron who has already slammed peak Bird's best runs...Not even counting this year's historical run.....

Still posting huh? :rolleyes: :facepalm

Keep making yourself look like a fool even more. Ignorant children these days :facepalm :oldlol:

[NumberSix]

Bird played really good D,


Fυck outta here chocolate packager.

[red1]

I highly doubt you are one of them looking at your profile and the way you talk lmfao. At least make it less obvious
:oldlol: kamil getting sonned

[SHAQisGOAT]

I haven't looked too closely recently, but two points:

1) Isn't the primary "regression" in his shooting numbers, or was it across the board?
2) The East was the much better conference in the 80s. Bird had to go through the Bucks or Sixers every year early on, and the Pistons became dominant at the end of the decade. The West was pure trash for the most part, so playing in one conference vs the other hurt his numbers.

1)


So...by 'stats plummeting' OP meant maintained the same impact http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/series2/funone3kk.gif

24.3 PPG 10.0 RPG 6.3 APG 1.7 SPG 0.8 BPG; FG% .496 3P% .376 FT% .886

Playoffs:

23.8 PPG 10.3 RPG 6.5 APG 1.8 SPG 0.9 BPG; FG% .472 3P% .321 FT% .890


2) Very true. Played in the toughest era, in the toughest conference, people will overlook that though :rolleyes:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Fυck outta here chocolate packager.


Your momma calls me that :oldlol:

On the real, watch this, be educated, stop the ignorance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpEAZMT5t_U

[ArbitraryWater]

No, but his peak/prime play was probably better than you realize.

Really all posts NumberSix made topped yours... "was probably better than you realize" lol what a cop out.. still not better than LeBron's.

[Rocketswin2013]

Shit like this makes me think I'm underrating Kobe...Is Bird really better than Bean? These playoff stats make me wonder... Or am I going too far? I have Kobe 6 - 10 all-time......

[ArbitraryWater]

this shaqisgoat dude :facepalm

[Rose'sACL]

Bird played really good D, you don't even know it though.
Celtics went from one of the worst to one of the best offensive teams when he (and coach Fitch) came around, with basically the same cast, he led the league in DWS and was 6th in DRtg.
Led in DWS 4 times, top5 7 times; 2nd in DRtg once, 6 times in the top10.
In the Playoffs? More of the same or even better. Most DWS in the 80s.
Other forwards that did that were Timmy, Rodman, KG or Pippen... Guess that's just a fluke though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpEAZMT5t_U
He had big impact on defense, that's why he was a big time winner and changed teams around, also. So ****ing underrated defensively, not even funny :facepalm

Add that to his overall offense + rebounding + overall intangibles is enough to put him above Bron, prime for prime.


why do you even post here if you think that anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't know anything?
Defensive stats are some of the most misleading ones when it comes to individual defense.i have seen all the semis, ECFs and finals games of bird plus only his good regular season game and his playoff defense doesn't come close to lebron's playoff defense.
Miami just gambles for steals instead of playing proper defense pretty much all the time lebron is not on the floor now that wade has injury issues.

[ArbitraryWater]

Shit like this makes me think I'm underrating Kobe...Is Bird really better than Bean? These playoff stats make me wonder... Or am I going too far? I have Kobe 6 - 10 all-time......

Bro I thought about it the same.. compared their playoff career, VERY SIMILAR.. however Bird must still be put above him simply because he's a much better regular season performer.. he routinely finished top 3 in mvp voting, too..

[SHAQisGOAT]

You know when it REALLY gets hard, especially today after getting through the WEAK-ASS eastern conference (with a team stacked af compared to the rest) :lol ??? The Finals.

Larry Bird -

RS: 24.3 / 10.0 / 6.3 / 1.7 / 0.8 on 50 / 38 / 89 (%)
PS: 23.8 / 10.3 / 6.5 / 1.8 / 0.9 on 47 / 32 / 89 (%)

Finals:
31 games, 16W-15L
23.1 / 11.7 / 6.0 / 2.0 / 0.8 on 46 / 42 / 87 (%), 42.8 min


LeBron James -

RS: 27.5 / 7.2 / 6.9 / 1.7 / 0.8 on 50 / 34 / 75 (%)
PS: 27.9 / 8.4 / 6.5 / 1.7 / 0.9 on 48 / 33 / 75 (%)

Finals (not counting this year's):
22 games, 10-12
23.4 / 9.0 / 7.0 / 1.7 / 0.6 on 44 / 29 / 75 (%), 43.4 min

And Bird was playing against one of the GOAT dynasties/team, showtime Lakers with the likes of Kareem, Magic, Worthy, Wilkes, Scott, Cooper, Nixon, McAdoo, Green, Rambis... That would win vs the the Heat or any team that they beat, shit I see the 1986 Rockets with Hakeem/Sampson beating the Heat.

In the Playoffs, in 9 healthy/prime seasons, Bird beat 10 50+W teams, Bron didn't even reach 7 in 11 years :oldlol:

Not to mention, Larry was facing GOAT teams/dynasties. Plus LeBron didn't even start his decline yet, imagine when he'll do.

Oh and Larry didn't statpad, win guaranteed he was out, unavoidable loss he was out.

Bird's sophomore Finals performance with a team that previously had one of the worst records in the league (adding Parish, removing Cowens) is better than LeBron's Finals performance in his prime (2011) after joining two top10 players in the league (one top5) :roll:

....

Bet all that makes you feel mad and salty as hell, right? :lol Go play, little children.



Bron's stans dodging that post like a motha****er too :oldlol:

Y'all wanna talk about drop-offs?? When the going gets tough, Bron drops like a mf'er :lol Imagine him playing the 80s East than having to face the showtime Lakers in the Finals :roll:

Look at that drop-off between the RS/PS and then the Finals :oldlol: Weak-ass EAst, in the Finals is ****ed up right? :confusedshrug:

[Rose'sACL]

Your momma calls me that :oldlol:

On the real, watch this, be educated, stop the ignorance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpEAZMT5t_U
i hope most people here have watched pretty much all the ECFs and finals games of birds so stop posting youtube highlights. That is the worst possible way to make your point if you are not in your teens.

[NumberSix]

SHAQisGOAT is gonna convince me that Bird is a scrub.

[Rocketswin2013]

Bron's stans dodging that post like a motha****er too :oldlol:
What are those stats and what are you comparing? 2009-2014 and 82-88?? Elaborate.

Edit: I was looking at per 36...Nvm..


But you are comparing career stats when we're talking peak vs peak? :roll:

[SHAQisGOAT]

i hope most people here have watched pretty much all the ECFs and finals games of birds so stop posting youtube highlights. That is the worst possible way to make your point if you are not in your teens.

Not "just" highlights there :facepalm And ofc those ignorant kids haven't seen much from Bird, apart from a few min highlight reel, what you're talking about??

[mr4speed]

Bron's stans dodging that post like a motha****er too :oldlol:

Y'all wanna talk about drop-offs?? When the going gets tough, Bron drops like a mf'er :lol Imagine him playing the 80s East than having to face the showtime Lakers in the Finals :roll:

Look at that drop-off between the RS/PS and then the Finals :oldlol: Weak-ass EAst, in the Finals is ****ed up right? :confusedshrug:

THIS!!!

[SHAQisGOAT]

What are those stats and what are you comparing? 2009-2014 and 82-88?? Elaborate.



:biggums:

Can you even read?? :facepalm

Regular-season, Playoffs and then Finals stats throughout their career right there (imagine when Bron declines or even goes through injuries, Bird didn't have all his "luxuries" though, some may claim even enhancement drugs)

Anyways, again...

Y'all wanna talk about drop-offs?? When the going gets tough, Bron drops like a mf'er Imagine him playing the 80s East than having to face the showtime Lakers in the Finals

Look at that drop-off between the RS/PS and then the Finals Weak-ass EAst, in the Finals is ****ed up right?

[ArbitraryWater]

Just look at Bird's long list of playoff failures for his entire career while not really being able to weigh them out with successes.

1980: Averaged a 47 FG% in the postseason. In game 5 vs. the Sixers Bird shoots 5-19 with just 12 points and the Celtics lose while his matchup Erving averages 25 PPG.
Bird loses in 5 games depsite HCA. Celtics won 61 games in the regular season. (BTW It should be noted that unlike the Cavaliers, the Celtics definitely didn't over-achieve or were simply a regular season team, they were this good.)
A PER of 18.3.

1981: Averaged a 47 FG% in the postseason.
Plays a bad finals series where he averaged just 15 PPG on 42%. Back to back 8 point games, horrid.

1982: Averages an emberassing 18 PPG on 42%. 5 point drop off.
He averaged a pedestrian 18 PPG against the Sixers and 17 PPG in the final 2 games of the series.
Bird loses with HCA AGAIN. The Celtics won 63 games and had the #1 SRS in the league.
A 17.9 PER in the postseason.

1983: Averaged 20 PPG on 42%. Flop.
Bird and the Celtics get swept by the Bucks. Again, can easily be blamed on Bird for more subpar play.
Bird loses with HCA. This time the Celtics won 56 games and had the #2 SRS in the league.
Bird plays awful again. His PPG average drops in the playoffs.
Bird missed a game in the series but that game happened to be the closest one (Celtics lose by 4). In the 3 other games, the Celtics lose by 14.3 PPG with Bird on the court.

1984: Great playoffs.
Averaged 27-14-4 in the Finals and shot the ball at 52%.
First great playoff of his career. Celtics win the title over the Lakers. Bird FMVP.

1985: Celtics make the finals.
Bird averaged 26/9/6 on only 46% shooting. All statistics dropped.
Bird plays even worse in the finals as he averages another poor 24/9/5 on an inefficient 45%.
Celtics won 63 games and yet again lost with HCA.
The first time in Celtics history they lose the Finals with HCA.

1986: Great playoffs. His best year ever. Wins the title. 26/9/8 on 52% overall in the post-season and an amazing finals consisting of 24/10/10 on 48%.

1987: Great until the Finals. 28/10/8 through 3 Rounds but his Averages dropped to 27/10/7 after the Finals. In which he only shot 45%.
In game 6, Bird scored just 16 points on 6-16 (.375) shooting.
In the final 3 games of this series, Bird averaged just 20 PPG on .377 shooting* with 3.7 TOV.
The first time in Bird's career he's played without HCA and his team still loses.

1988: Averages 25/8/7 on 45%.
Bird shoots an awful 40-114 (.351) against the Pistons.
Has a mediocre 20.2 PER in the playoffs.
Lost with HCA while the Celtics had the #1 SRS in the league-

1989: Injured doesn't play in the postseason.

1990: Bird shoots 44% and has 3.6 TOV as the Celtics once again lose with HCA, in the 1st Round.

1991: In the first round, his team barely escapes the 41 win Pacers in 5.
41 FG% and a 15.8 PER in the playoffs. Against the Pistons Bird averages 13.4 PPG on 38%.
56 win team played with you guessed it HCA and loses with it.

1992: DNP 1st Round as the Celtics SWEEP the Pacers without him.
In round 2, his team goes 7 against the Cavs, Bird plays in 4 games and his team was 1-3 in those games. Averages a pathetic 11.3 PPG and 4.5 Reb which are 8.4 PPG and 5.2 Reb down from his regular season average. Shooting 50% and has a 16.4 PER.

In 12 Years, you get 5 Runs of under 45% and 9 runs of under 48%.

A great 4 year run, mediocrity besides that.

Bird underachieved the most out of any great, loosing 7 times with HCA.

This Underachiever should be better than one of the greatest overachievers ever?

Carrying the Cavaliers to the Finals and two Nr.1 Records? LOL

[NumberSix]

Un-yin

[fpliii]

Across the board mainly.
Year by year in his prime (80-88):

21.3/10.4/4.5 on .538 TS% -> 21.3/11.2/4.7 on .511 TS% (HOU, PHI)
21.2/10.9/5.5 on .528 TS% -> 21.9/14.0/6.1 on .532 TS% (CHI, PHI, HOU)
22.9/10.9/5.8 on .557 TS% -> 17.8/12.5/5.6 on .474 TS% (WSB, PHI)
23.6/11.0/5.8 on .561 TS% -> 20.5/12.5/6.8 on .478 TS% (ATL, MIL)
24.2/10.1/6.6 on .552 TS% -> 27.5/11.0/5.9 on .607 TS% (WSB, NYK, MIL, LAL)
28.7/10.5/6.6 on .585 TS% -> 26.0/9.1/5.8 on .536 TS% (CLE, DET, PHI, LAL)
25.8/9.8/6.8 on .580 TS% -> 25.9/9.3/8.2 on .615 TS% (CHI, ATL, MIL, HOU)
28.1/9.2/7.6 on .612 TS% -> 27.0/10.0/7.2 on .577 TS% (CHI, MIL, DET, LAL)
29.9/9.3/6.1 on .608 TS% -> 24.5/8.8/6.8 on .538 TS% (NYK, ATL, DET)

1980-88 Totals:

25.0/10.2/6.1 on .570 TS% -> 24.5/10.7/6.4 on .555 TS%

Some other stuff in general...

During his prime he was also a net positive on defense. Great team/help defender, and very good in the post. He just struggled defending faster wing players, but that wouldn't be an issue today since he'd play the four. Truth be told, he should've played the four back then anyway, it was just on that team in particular he played more time at SF.

According to Kblaze recently, Auerbach actually wanted to take Dr. Dunkenstein instead of McHale:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10102377&postcount=27

which would've allowed Bird to play his more natural position (the 4). He'd also be taking more threes obviously (Fitch didn't like when his guys took the shot; Jones wasn't as opposed, but wasn't necessarily a proponent of it).

[fpliii]

This guy is the single most delusional, nostalgic, stan I've ever witnessed.

He will throw all of Bird's playoff chokes in entire seasons out of the window and choose a few series and say he's better than LeBron who has already slammed peak Bird's best runs...Not even counting this year's historical run.....
SHAQisGOAT does have his favorites, but I think he's reasonable in general, and drops a ton of knowledge.

There are plenty of posters who will uniformly take a guy to support their agenda (present NBA, Jordan era, 60s, etc.), but I don't think he's one of them. Just knows a ton, and likes to bring up some guys who are underrated/underhyped/unknown on ISH.

[Rose'sACL]

Fpliii does have his favorites, but I think he's reasonable in general, and drops a ton of knowledge.

There are plenty of posters who will uniformly take a guy to support their agenda (present NBA, Jordan era, 60s, etc.), but I don't think he's one of them. Just knows a ton, and likes to bring up some guys who are underrated/underhyped/unknown on ISH.
Fixed. you are the unbiased one. Shaqisgoat is as unbiased as silk.

[Rocketswin2013]

Year by year in his prime (80-88):

21.3/10.4/4.5 on .538 TS% -> 21.3/11.2/4.7 on .511 TS% (HOU, PHI)
21.2/10.9/5.5 on .528 TS% -> 21.9/14.0/6.1 on .532 TS% (CHI, PHI, HOU)
22.9/10.9/5.8 on .557 TS% -> 17.8/12.5/5.6 on .474 TS% (WSB, PHI)
23.6/11.0/5.8 on .561 TS% -> 20.5/12.5/6.8 on .478 TS% (ATL, MIL)
24.2/10.1/6.6 on .552 TS% -> 27.5/11.0/5.9 on .607 TS% (WSB, NYK, MIL, LAL)
28.7/10.5/6.6 on .585 TS% -> 26.0/9.1/5.8 on .536 TS% (CLE, DET, PHI, LAL)
25.8/9.8/6.8 on .580 TS% -> 25.9/9.3/8.2 on .615 TS% (CHI, ATL, MIL, HOU)
28.1/9.2/7.6 on .612 TS% -> 27.0/10.0/7.2 on .577 TS% (CHI, MIL, DET, LAL)
29.9/9.3/6.1 on .608 TS% -> 24.5/8.8/6.8 on .538 TS% (NYK, ATL, DET)

1980-88 Totals:

25.0/10.2/6.1 on .570 TS% -> 24.5/10.7/6.4 on .555 TS%

Some other stuff in general...

During his prime he was also a net positive on defense. Great team/help defender, and very good in the post. He just struggled defending faster wing players, but that wouldn't be an issue today since he'd play the four. Truth be told, he should've played the four back then anyway, it was just on that team in particular he played more time at SF.

According to Kblaze recently, Auerbach actually wanted to take Dr. Dunkenstein instead of McHale:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10102377&postcount=27

which would've allowed Bird to play his more natural position (the 4). He'd also be taking more threes obviously (Fitch didn't like when his guys took the shot; Jones wasn't as opposed, but wasn't necessarily a proponent of it).
I really don't think the pure volume stats and TS% shows the full picture. He was much less productive in most of those years. The WS and PER show it.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Just look at Bird's long list of playoff failures for his entire career while not really being able to weigh them out with successes.

1980: Averaged a 47 FG% in the postseason. In game 5 vs. the Sixers Bird shoots 5-19 with just 12 points and the Celtics lose while his matchup Erving averages 25 PPG.
Bird loses in 5 games depsite HCA. Celtics won 61 games in the regular season. (BTW It should be noted that unlike the Cavaliers, the Celtics definitely didn't over-achieve or were simply a regular season team, they were this good.)
A PER of 18.3.

1981: Averaged a 47 FG% in the postseason.
Plays a bad finals series where he averaged just 15 PPG on 42%. Back to back 8 point games, horrid.

1982: Averages an emberassing 18 PPG on 42%. 5 point drop off.
He averaged a pedestrian 18 PPG against the Sixers and 17 PPG in the final 2 games of the series.
Bird loses with HCA AGAIN. The Celtics won 63 games and had the #1 SRS in the league.
A 17.9 PER in the postseason.

1983: Averaged 20 PPG on 42%. Flop.
Bird and the Celtics get swept by the Bucks. Again, can easily be blamed on Bird for more subpar play.
Bird loses with HCA. This time the Celtics won 56 games and had the #2 SRS in the league.
Bird plays awful again. His PPG average drops in the playoffs.
Bird missed a game in the series but that game happened to be the closest one (Celtics lose by 4). In the 3 other games, the Celtics lose by 14.3 PPG with Bird on the court.

1984: Great playoffs.
Averaged 27-14-4 in the Finals and shot the ball at 52%.
First great playoff of his career. Celtics win the title over the Lakers. Bird FMVP.

1985: Celtics make the finals.
Bird averaged 26/9/6 on only 46% shooting. All statistics dropped.
Bird plays even worse in the finals as he averages another poor 24/9/5 on an inefficient 45%.
Celtics won 63 games and yet again lost with HCA.
The first time in Celtics history they lose the Finals with HCA.

1986: Great playoffs. His best year ever. Wins the title. 26/9/8 on 52% overall in the post-season and an amazing finals consisting of 24/10/10 on 48%.

1987: Great until the Finals. 28/10/8 through 3 Rounds but his Averages dropped to 27/10/7 after the Finals. In which he only shot 45%.
In game 6, Bird scored just 16 points on 6-16 (.375) shooting.
In the final 3 games of this series, Bird averaged just 20 PPG on .377 shooting* with 3.7 TOV.
The first time in Bird's career he's played without HCA and his team still loses.

1988: Averages 25/8/7 on 45%.
Bird shoots an awful 40-114 (.351) against the Pistons.
Has a mediocre 20.2 PER in the playoffs.
Lost with HCA while the Celtics had the #1 SRS in the league-

1989: Injured doesn't play in the postseason.

1990: Bird shoots 44% and has 3.6 TOV as the Celtics once again lose with HCA, in the 1st Round.

1991: In the first round, his team barely escapes the 41 win Pacers in 5.
41 FG% and a 15.8 PER in the playoffs. Against the Pistons Bird averages 13.4 PPG on 38%.
56 win team played with you guessed it HCA and loses with it.

1992: DNP 1st Round as the Celtics SWEEP the Pacers without him.
In round 2, his team goes 7 against the Cavs, Bird plays in 4 games and his team was 1-3 in those games. Averages a pathetic 11.3 PPG and 4.5 Reb which are 8.4 PPG and 5.2 Reb down from his regular season average. Shooting 50% and has a 16.4 PER.

In 12 Years, you get 5 Runs of under 45% and 9 runs of under 48%.

A great 4 year run, mediocrity besides that.

Bird underachieved the most out of any great, loosing 7 times with HCA.

This Underachiever should be better than one of the greatest overachievers ever?

Carrying the Cavaliers to the Finals and two Nr.1 Records? LOL


Quoting jlauber now?? :biggums:

What a bunch of BS there, already "exposed" that shitty post, plenty of times.

1980 - In 1979 that same team went 29-53 in the RS (2nd worst), with the arrival of Bird happens one of the biggest turnarounds in history, up to 61 wins (best) and reaching the ECF, pretty much the same squad and coach Fitch, Bird as a rookie leading the way, that even injured his finger on his shooting hand in the beginning of the season, making it crooked forever... Such a fail :rolleyes:

1981 - Bad Finals? So now 15.3/15.3/7.0/2.3/0.5 is bad? Lmfao. Nobody pulled a 15+/15+/7+ ever in a Finals series.
For the series only trailed Moses, one of the GOAT rebounders as a center, by 6 rebounds and playing less minutes. Pretty much shut down the player(s) he was guarding. Leading everyone in assists and steals. Yes he had a bad shooting/scoring series but was still the 3rd best scorer in the series and had no superstar level teammate, plus all the attention on him, coming outside, making terrific passes, helped Max a lot with his scoring. Decisive game 6 he put up 27/13/5 on 11/20, really clutch in the 4th. And that was a really physical series, plenty of today's superstars wouldn't handle that. Go watch it.
Lets forget what he did the previous series against the 76ers and MVP Julius Erving, though.. With Bobby and Calwdell Jones and Erving on him, he put up 26.7 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 4.6 apg on 48.6 %FG/55.4 %TS, with a terrific game 7. MVP Erving during that series: 19.9 ppg, 5.9 rpg , 4.1 apg on 43.3%FG/48.8 %TS.
They also won it all, Bird as a sophomore, leading a previously terrible team, adding Parish and cutting Cowens.
Such a failure :rolleyes:

1982 - He had a bad PS this year considering his standards, no excuses. They almost got to the Finals though.

1983 - Bird was injured, lets forget that right?! Didn't even play 1 game :banghead: Look at what the rest did without him remotely close to 100%.

1984 - One of the best PS runs ever right there. Teammates underperforming he led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, got them that ring agains eally stacked teams like the showtime Lakers with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis, Wilkes...
:bowdown:

1985 - Was having another monster year. Baldy injured his right hand in a bar fight during the PS though, but lets neglect that again?!? :facepalm Played with a injured elbow too.
If he was healthy the Celtics would most likely beat the Lakers again, they took them to 6 with an injured Bird, of course without him at 100% they couldn't do much, even so he was really good.

1986 - Amazing PS run, leading one of the goat teams. See what happens when eveything's clicking right there, imagine if he played for the Lakers since the start.

1987 - Team was filled with injuries, virtually no bench, starters had to log major minutes. At 30, Bird played 41 mpg in the RS, easily his highest, and 44 in the PS over the course of 23 games. Lakers with one of the goat teams and a relatively easy road to the Finals, Celtics faced great teams, had gruelsome series, were beat down, still took them to 6, Bird still did his thing already with back problems, McHale with a broken foot, Parish and Ainge also with some injuries. His series against the Bad Boys was simply amazing, with that famous steal also.

1988 - Similar story to 1987, Larry was having a beastly RS, after cutting some weight, but injuries took a toll, back issues and bone spurs in both heels. Never made excuses but was on his last legs in the PS, had to get surgeries right after.

After 1988 I won't say much, he was still playing on a level that the vast majority can't reach but he was a shell. After surgeries and still with major problems, couldn't practice plenty of times, plenty mobility gone, overweight. Can't judge that. He still had major impact as a shell on a team that wasn't doing much without him.

[atljonesbro]

Quoting jlauber now?? :biggums:

What a bunch of BS there, already "exposed" that shitty post, plenty of times.

1980 - In 1979 that same team went 29-53 in the RS (2nd worst), with the arrival of Bird happens one of the biggest turnarounds in history, up to 61 wins (best) and reaching the ECF, pretty much the same squad and coach Fitch, Bird as a rookie leading the way, that even injured his finger on his shooting hand in the beginning of the season, making it crooked forever... Such a fail :rolleyes:

1981 - Bad Finals? So now 15.3/15.3/7.0/2.3/0.5 is bad? Lmfao. Nobody pulled a 15+/15+/7+ ever in a Finals series.
For the series only trailed Moses, one of the GOAT rebounders as a center, by 6 rebounds and playing less minutes. Pretty much shut down the player(s) he was guarding. Leading everyone in assists and steals. Yes he had a bad shooting/scoring series but was still the 3rd best scorer in the series and had no superstar level teammate, plus all the attention on him, coming outside, making terrific passes, helped Max a lot with his scoring. Decisive game 6 he put up 27/13/5 on 11/20, really clutch in the 4th. And that was a really physical series, plenty of today's superstars wouldn't handle that. Go watch it.
Lets forget what he did the previous series against the 76ers and MVP Julius Erving, though.. With Bobby and Calwdell Jones and Erving on him, he put up 26.7 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 4.6 apg on 48.6 %FG/55.4 %TS, with a terrific game 7. MVP Erving during that series: 19.9 ppg, 5.9 rpg , 4.1 apg on 43.3%FG/48.8 %TS.
They also won it all, Bird as a sophomore, leading a previously terrible team, adding Parish and cutting Cowens.
Such a failure :rolleyes:

1982 - He had a bad PS this year considering his standards, no excuses. They almost got to the Finals though.

1983 - Bird was injured, lets forget that right?! Didn't even play 1 game :banghead: Look at what the rest did without him remotely close to 100%.

1984 - One of the best PS runs ever right there. Teammates underperforming he led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, got them that ring agains eally stacked teams like the showtime Lakers with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis, Wilkes...
:bowdown:

1985 - Was having another monster year. Baldy injured his right hand in a bar fight during the PS though, but lets neglect that again?!? :facepalm Played with a injured elbow too.
If he was healthy the Celtics would most likely beat the Lakers again, they took them to 6 with an injured Bird, of course without him at 100% they couldn't do much, even so he was really good.

1986 - Amazing PS run, leading one of the goat teams. See what happens when eveything's clicking right there, imagine if he played for the Lakers since the start.

1987 - Team was filled with injuries, virtually no bench, starters had to log major minutes. At 30, Bird played 41 mpg in the RS, easily his highest, and 44 in the PS over the course of 23 games. Lakers with one of the goat teams and a relatively easy road to the Finals, Celtics faced great teams, had gruelsome series, were beat down, still took them to 6, Bird still did his thing already with back problems, McHale with a broken foot, Parish and Ainge also with some injuries. His series against the Bad Boys was simply amazing, with that famous steal also.

1988 - Similar story to 1987, Larry was having a beastly RS, after cutting some weight, but injuries took a toll, back issues and bone spurs in both heels. Never made excuses but was on his last legs in the PS, had to get surgeries right after.

After 1988 I won't say much, he was still playing on a level that the vast majority can't reach but he was a shell. After surgeries and still with major problems, couldn't practice plenty of times, plenty mobility gone, overweight. Can't judge that. He still had major impact as a shell on a team that wasn't doing much without him.
Damn you gotta be the king of excuses :biggums:

[Rocketswin2013]

Quoting jlauber now?? :biggums:

What a bunch of BS there, already "exposed" that shitty post, plenty of times.

1980 - In 1979 that same team went 29-53 in the RS (2nd worst), with the arrival of Bird happens one of the biggest turnarounds in history, up to 61 wins (best) and reaching the ECF, pretty much the same squad and coach Fitch, Bird as a rookie leading the way, that even injured his finger on his shooting hand in the beginning of the season, making it crooked forever... Such a fail :rolleyes:

1981 - Bad Finals? So now 15.3/15.3/7.0/2.3/0.5 is bad? Lmfao. Nobody pulled a 15+/15+/7+ ever in a Finals series.
For the series only trailed Moses, one of the GOAT rebounders as a center, by 6 rebounds and playing less minutes. Pretty much shut down the player(s) he was guarding. Leading everyone in assists and steals. Yes he had a bad shooting/scoring series but was still the 3rd best scorer in the series and had no superstar level teammate, plus all the attention on him, coming outside, making terrific passes, helped Max a lot with his scoring. Decisive game 6 he put up 27/13/5 on 11/20, really clutch in the 4th. And that was a really physical series, plenty of today's superstars wouldn't handle that. Go watch it.
Lets forget what he did the previous series against the 76ers and MVP Julius Erving, though.. With Bobby and Calwdell Jones and Erving on him, he put up 26.7 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 4.6 apg on 48.6 %FG/55.4 %TS, with a terrific game 7. MVP Erving during that series: 19.9 ppg, 5.9 rpg , 4.1 apg on 43.3%FG/48.8 %TS.
They also won it all, Bird as a sophomore, leading a previously terrible team, adding Parish and cutting Cowens.
Such a failure :rolleyes:

1982 - He had a bad PS this year considering his standards, no excuses. They almost got to the Finals though.

1983 - Bird was injured, lets forget that right?! Didn't even play 1 game :banghead: Look at what the rest did without him remotely close to 100%.

1984 - One of the best PS runs ever right there. Teammates underperforming he led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, got them that ring agains eally stacked teams like the showtime Lakers with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis, Wilkes...
:bowdown:

1985 - Was having another monster year. Baldy injured his right hand in a bar fight during the PS though, but lets neglect that again?!? :facepalm Played with a injured elbow too.
If he was healthy the Celtics would most likely beat the Lakers again, they took them to 6 with an injured Bird, of course without him at 100% they couldn't do much, even so he was really good.

1986 - Amazing PS run, leading one of the goat teams. See what happens when eveything's clicking right there, imagine if he played for the Lakers since the start.

1987 - Team was filled with injuries, virtually no bench, starters had to log major minutes. At 30, Bird played 41 mpg in the RS, easily his highest, and 44 in the PS over the course of 23 games. Lakers with one of the goat teams and a relatively easy road to the Finals, Celtics faced great teams, had gruelsome series, were beat down, still took them to 6, Bird still did his thing already with back problems, McHale with a broken foot, Parish and Ainge also with some injuries. His series against the Bad Boys was simply amazing, with that famous steal also.

1988 - Similar story to 1987, Larry was having a beastly RS, after cutting some weight, but injuries took a toll, back issues and bone spurs in both heels. Never made excuses but was on his last legs in the PS, had to get surgeries right after.

After 1988 I won't say much, he was still playing on a level that the vast majority can't reach but he was a shell. After surgeries and still with major problems, couldn't practice plenty of times, plenty mobility gone, overweight. Can't judge that. He still had major impact as a shell on a team that wasn't doing much without him.
So basically Larry Bird was always dominant...Except the times he wasn't....

So many damn excuses.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Year by year in his prime (80-88):

21.3/10.4/4.5 on .538 TS% -> 21.3/11.2/4.7 on .511 TS% (HOU, PHI)
21.2/10.9/5.5 on .528 TS% -> 21.9/14.0/6.1 on .532 TS% (CHI, PHI, HOU)
22.9/10.9/5.8 on .557 TS% -> 17.8/12.5/5.6 on .474 TS% (WSB, PHI)
23.6/11.0/5.8 on .561 TS% -> 20.5/12.5/6.8 on .478 TS% (ATL, MIL)
24.2/10.1/6.6 on .552 TS% -> 27.5/11.0/5.9 on .607 TS% (WSB, NYK, MIL, LAL)
28.7/10.5/6.6 on .585 TS% -> 26.0/9.1/5.8 on .536 TS% (CLE, DET, PHI, LAL)
25.8/9.8/6.8 on .580 TS% -> 25.9/9.3/8.2 on .615 TS% (CHI, ATL, MIL, HOU)
28.1/9.2/7.6 on .612 TS% -> 27.0/10.0/7.2 on .577 TS% (CHI, MIL, DET, LAL)
29.9/9.3/6.1 on .608 TS% -> 24.5/8.8/6.8 on .538 TS% (NYK, ATL, DET)

1980-88 Totals:

25.0/10.2/6.1 on .570 TS% -> 24.5/10.7/6.4 on .555 TS%

Some other stuff in general...

During his prime he was also a net positive on defense. Great team/help defender, and very good in the post. He just struggled defending faster wing players, but that wouldn't be an issue today since he'd play the four. Truth be told, he should've played the four back then anyway, it was just on that team in particular he played more time at SF.

According to Kblaze recently, Auerbach actually wanted to take Dr. Dunkenstein instead of McHale:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10102377&postcount=27

which would've allowed Bird to play his more natural position (the 4). He'd also be taking more threes obviously (Fitch didn't like when his guys took the shot; Jones wasn't as opposed, but wasn't necessarily a proponent of it).

:applause:


SHAQisGOAT does have his favorites, but I think he's reasonable in general, and drops a ton of knowledge.

There are plenty of posters who will uniformly take a guy to support their agenda (present NBA, Jordan era, 60s, etc.), but I don't think he's one of them. Just knows a ton, and likes to bring up some guys who are underrated/underhyped/unknown on ISH.

:cheers:


Fixed. you are the unbiased one. Shaqisgoat is as unbiased as silk.

Show me where I was biased. Acting like I rank Bird or Shaq as #1 or more than they desserve, so on. Acting like I don't even rank Bron properly or give him his due.
:facepalm

[ThePhantomCreep]

I really don't think the pure volume stats and TS% shows the full picture. He was much less productive in most of those years. The WS and PER show it.

That post pretty much crushed your face and all you can come back with is "I dunno, I like PER and WS better"? Get lost, LeBron homer.

25/11/6 over a 9-year postseason run is sick.

[Rocketswin2013]

That post pretty much crushed your face and all you can come back with is "I dunno, I like PER and WS better"? Get lost, LeBron homer.

25/11/6 over a 9-year postseason run is sick.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10112874&postcount=50

[SHAQisGOAT]

So basically Larry Bird was always dominant...Except the times he wasn't....

So many damn excuses.

Show me players that were always great, every game, every series, every playoffs... Yea he had failures, everyone does, but his winning exceeds that, his dominance, his accolades and acomplishments, with he did, how he played, his impact, far exceeds that... You're just too ignorant, and too much of a hater to see it. Plus nobody ever talks about when he was injured because he didn't publicize it or walked around the court like a *****.

Bron's stans, or really stans in regular ruin basketball talks and just the game in general. ****ing ignorants :facepalm;

[Rocketswin2013]

That post pretty much crushed your face and all you can come back with is "I dunno, I like PER and WS better"? Get lost, LeBron homer.

25/11/6 over a 9-year postseason run is sick.
I ****ed the code on the first one but you get the point.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10112911&postcount=58

[SHAQisGOAT]

Damn you gotta be the king of excuses :biggums:

Bron stan saying that :roll:

[fpliii]

I really don't think the pure volume stats and TS% shows the full picture. He was much less productive in most of those years. The WS and PER show it.
I'm not a big fan of WS or PER in general (arbitrary coefficients, don't correlate extremely well with scoring differential, etc.), but in the playoffs they're particularly bad.

PER is calculated during the regular season with an average player being 15.0. Problem is, in the playoffs, unlike the regular, different teams play different schedules (i.e. During the regular season, most teams will face opponents over the course of the year with an average SRS faced between -.5 and +.5. In the postseason, some squads will face 2.0 or 3.0 SRS on average, or even higher, during extended runs).

Win Shares rely heavily on team results in their calculations, and in the playoffs you play fewer games, so the sample is smaller and the process by which win shares are credited to individual players therefore makes for very noisy WS numbers. The inconsistent strength of schedule ok the playoffs is also a problem, as with PER.

You can read more about how they're calculated here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/per.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

Anyhow, your call. We're all entitled to our own opinions. :cheers:

[Rocketswin2013]

Show me players that were always great, every game, every series, every playoffs... Yea he had failures, everyone does, but his winning exceeds that, his dominance, his accolades and acomplishments, with he did, how he played, his impact, far exceeds that... You're just too ignorant, and too much of a hater to see it. Plus nobody ever talks about when he was injured because he didn't publicize it or walked around the court like a *****.

Bron's stans, or really stans in regular ruin basketball talks and just the game in general. ****ing ignorants :facepalm;
James harden practically had a broken hand in the 2012 Finals..I don't really care to mention it because that's an excuse..Everybody goes through adversity and everybody goes through injuries, circumstances, etc....

But Larry Bird flatout choked in 81-83. No excuses. In 85, and 87 he choked. NO EXCUSES.

Also, staying healthy is an attribute. That is something that you have to evaluate and Bird was injury prone and couldn't conistently stay healthy. His fault.

[ArbitraryWater]

Quoting jlauber now?? :biggums:

What a bunch of BS there, already "exposed" that shitty post, plenty of times.

1980 - In 1979 that same team went 29-53 in the RS (2nd worst), with the arrival of Bird happens one of the biggest turnarounds in history, up to 61 wins (best) and reaching the ECF, pretty much the same squad and coach Fitch, Bird as a rookie leading the way, that even injured his finger on his shooting hand in the beginning of the season, making it crooked forever... Such a fail :rolleyes:

1981 - Bad Finals? So now 15.3/15.3/7.0/2.3/0.5 is bad? Lmfao. Nobody pulled a 15+/15+/7+ ever in a Finals series.
For the series only trailed Moses, one of the GOAT rebounders as a center, by 6 rebounds and playing less minutes. Pretty much shut down the player(s) he was guarding. Leading everyone in assists and steals. Yes he had a bad shooting/scoring series but was still the 3rd best scorer in the series and had no superstar level teammate, plus all the attention on him, coming outside, making terrific passes, helped Max a lot with his scoring. Decisive game 6 he put up 27/13/5 on 11/20, really clutch in the 4th. And that was a really physical series, plenty of today's superstars wouldn't handle that. Go watch it.
Lets forget what he did the previous series against the 76ers and MVP Julius Erving, though.. With Bobby and Calwdell Jones and Erving on him, he put up 26.7 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 4.6 apg on 48.6 %FG/55.4 %TS, with a terrific game 7. MVP Erving during that series: 19.9 ppg, 5.9 rpg , 4.1 apg on 43.3%FG/48.8 %TS.
They also won it all, Bird as a sophomore, leading a previously terrible team, adding Parish and cutting Cowens.
Such a failure :rolleyes:

1982 - He had a bad PS this year considering his standards, no excuses. They almost got to the Finals though.

1983 - Bird was injured, lets forget that right?! Didn't even play 1 game :banghead: Look at what the rest did without him remotely close to 100%.

1984 - One of the best PS runs ever right there. Teammates underperforming he led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, got them that ring agains eally stacked teams like the showtime Lakers with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis, Wilkes...
:bowdown:

1985 - Was having another monster year. Baldy injured his right hand in a bar fight during the PS though, but lets neglect that again?!? :facepalm Played with a injured elbow too.
If he was healthy the Celtics would most likely beat the Lakers again, they took them to 6 with an injured Bird, of course without him at 100% they couldn't do much, even so he was really good.

1986 - Amazing PS run, leading one of the goat teams. See what happens when eveything's clicking right there, imagine if he played for the Lakers since the start.

1987 - Team was filled with injuries, virtually no bench, starters had to log major minutes. At 30, Bird played 41 mpg in the RS, easily his highest, and 44 in the PS over the course of 23 games. Lakers with one of the goat teams and a relatively easy road to the Finals, Celtics faced great teams, had gruelsome series, were beat down, still took them to 6, Bird still did his thing already with back problems, McHale with a broken foot, Parish and Ainge also with some injuries. His series against the Bad Boys was simply amazing, with that famous steal also.

1988 - Similar story to 1987, Larry was having a beastly RS, after cutting some weight, but injuries took a toll, back issues and bone spurs in both heels. Never made excuses but was on his last legs in the PS, had to get surgeries right after.

After 1988 I won't say much, he was still playing on a level that the vast majority can't reach but he was a shell. After surgeries and still with major problems, couldn't practice plenty of times, plenty mobility gone, overweight. Can't judge that. He still had major impact as a shell on a team that wasn't doing much without him.

ShaqisGoat, king of excuses, HORRIBLE POSTER..

LOL at "15/15/7!!!!"

And no, I didnt quote jlauber, i wrote that myself.


Also, these bird stans want to use Larry getting his hand messed up in a bar fight AS EXCUSE?? LMFAO something aint right here, kiddo

[AirFederer]

OP the fakkit

[Rocketswin2013]

ShaqisGoat, king of excuses, HORRIBLE POSTER..

LOL at "15/15/7!!!!"

And no, I didnt quote jlauber, i wrote that myself.


Also, these bird stans want to use Larry getting his hand messed up in a bar fight AS EXCUSE?? LMFAO something aint right here, kiddo
Lol that 15/15/7 was the most ineffective double-double ever. 41% shooting. Maxwell shot 56%.

[ProfessorMurder]

Lol that 15/15/7 was the most ineffective double-double ever. 41% shooting. Maxwell shot 56%.

F*ck you, you moron.

[Rocketswin2013]

F*ck you, you moron.
Stay mad ******.

[Rose'sACL]

F*ck you, you moron.
lebron had an 18/18/10 triple double in game 1 last season and people complained that he was invisible for the game.

[ArbitraryWater]

F*ck you, you moron.

Stay mad, bitch

[ArbitraryWater]

lebron had an 18/18/10 triple double in game 1 last season and people complained that he was invisible for the game.

And that was a sick triple double too.. When Rondo posts that everyone's like "OMG GOAT NUMBERS"... Wouldnt call it that, but still very much elite

[ProfessorMurder]

lebron had an 18/18/10 triple double in game 1 last season and people complained that he was invisible for the game.

Irrelevant, and I didn't say that last year.


Stay mad, bitch

How am I mad? I'm telling someone they're an idiot and shouldn't be spouting bullshit.

[Psileas]

I'm not a big fan of WS or PER in general (arbitrary coefficients, don't correlate extremely well with scoring differential, etc.), but in the playoffs they're particularly bad.

PER is calculated during the regular season with an average player being 15.0. Problem is, in the playoffs, unlike the regular, different teams play different schedules (i.e. During the regular season, most teams will face opponents over the course of the year with an average SRS faced between -.5 and +.5. In the postseason, some squads will face 2.0 or 3.0 SRS on average, or even higher, during extended runs).

Win Shares rely heavily on team results in their calculations, and in the playoffs you play fewer games, so the sample is smaller and the process by which win shares are credited to individual players therefore makes for very noisy WS numbers. The inconsistent strength of schedule ok the playoffs is also a problem, as with PER.

You can read more about how they're calculated here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/per.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

Anyhow, your call. We're all entitled to our own opinions. :cheers:

Υοu mean "league average", which is above the level of an average player. I'd say an average player is usually at the 12-13 range.

[Round Mound]

Looking at his prime/healthy years (bolded when higher):

1980: 21.3 / 10.4 / 4.5 / 1.7 / 0.6; .538 --> 21.3 / 11.2 / 4.7 / 1.6 / 0.9;, .511

1981: 21.2 / 10.9 / 5.5 / 2.0 / 0.8; .528 --> 21.9 / 14.0 / 6.1 / 2.3 / 1.0; .532

1982: 22.9 / 10.9 / 5.8 / 1.9 / 0.9; .557 --> 17.8 / 12.5 / 5.6 / 1.9 / 1.4; .474

*1983: 23.6 / 11.0 / 5.8 / 1.9 / 0.9; .561 --> 20.5 / 12.5 / 6.8 / 2.2 / 0.5; .478

1984: 24.2 / 10.1 / 6.6 / 1.8 / 0.9; .552 --> 27.5 / 11.0 / 5.9 / 2.3 / 1.2; .607

**1985: 28.7 / 10.5 / 6.6 / 1.6 / 1.2; .585 --> 26.0 / 9.1 / 5.8 / 1.7 / 1.0; .536

1986: 25.8 / 9.8 / 6.8 / 2.0 / 0.6; .580 --> 25.9 / 9.3 / 8.2 / 2.1 / 0.6; .615

1987: 28.1 / 9.2 / 7.6 / 1.8 / 0.9; .612 --> 27.0 / 10.0 / 7.2 / 1.2 / 0.8; .577

***1988: 29.9 / 9.3 / 6.1 / 1.6 / 0.8; .608 --> 24.5 / 8.8 / 6.8 / 2.1 / 0.8; .538

*injured, didn't even play one game, still went out there and played when he shouldn't have

**injured elbow entering the playoffs then severely injured his right hand in a bar fight

***had to get back and ankles surgeries but still played that post-season


So yea, he raised his numbers plenty of times (his RS stats are almost indentical to his PS stats, overall throughout his career), most importantly he mostly came through and raised his game (but you wouldn't know nothing about that). What goes down mostly is his shooting %'s but that happens to most players (even most great-ones) in the Playoffs, especially when facing some great teams, Larry still upped that and his points, plenty.

I won't even talk about after 1988, dude was playing under conditions most wouldn't go through and was just a shell of his former self but if you wanna bring it up go ahead, all I know is that your favorite player wouldn't even be in the league anymore, Larry was still putting in work, still really good impact on a Celtics team that wasn't much at all, anymore.
Even after 1986 they just were just falling apart and didn't even have decent bench players, Bird had to carry most weight.

Other than that, just look at the facts, don't even dwell on numbers, son:
-That man stepped in as a rookie and took them from the 2nd worst record to the best record and the ECF, with basically the same roster;
-2nd year, Cowens was gone, they added Parish who was already 27 and never viewed as all that, he leads them to a championship;
-1984 with everybody underperforming in the post-season, he steps up, leads them in FG%, FT%, points, rebounds, assists and steals while winning the title against some stacked teams, mainly showtime Lakers;
-1986 with McHale hitting his prime, older players still good, Ainge getting better, Walton back for one last run, great teammates, everything clicking, what happens? He leads what many call the GOAT team, plays some of the best basketball ever, unreal, they demolish everything... Imagine Larry with the Lakers from the get-go, no chance, like the 60's Celtics dynasty in the 80's;
-He led them to 4 Finals in a row, in the most competitive era, in the most competitive conference, and won 3 rings as the main man, overall;
-When he got injured they never amounted to nothing again, shit even when he was out in 1989 they were considerably worse, even with Reggie Lewis playing, then he returns as a shell and made them considerably better.
....
And he wasn't playing against some shitty-ass teams :oldlol: Showtime Lakers were stacked like crazy, 76ers were incredible, Bucks would've gotten to the Finals in a different era, Bad Boys then came along... In 9 healthy seasons he beat 10 50+W teams, LeBron, for example, not even 7 in 11 seasons, lmfao... Not to mention 60+W teams, those teams I've mentioned before are some of the greatest ever, dynasties there too, teams that would absolutely rape a weaker league.

So, he gets a pass? What pass? If anything plenty of ignorant people (such as yourself, right now) call him out for having some "bad games" here and there, more than most other players, saying shit about stats or whatever when y'all didn't even watch the games and he was about much more than that, never statpadded either... Oh and they never even mention his injuries or most likely don't even know about them because he wasn't publicizing it (ala MJ) or trying to express them walking around the court like a bitch (ala LeBron).

Ignorant kids these days underrate players like Larry like a motha****er, talking shit they are blind to, than go on and suck Bron's dick for nothing, if they had to :lol
I don't even know why you post about shit you know nothing of, just let it go, I've seen you post some of the dumbest, most ignorant stuff I've ever read about basketball and its history :rolleyes: :facepalm :oldlol: Stop being silly, go to some kid shit :hammerhead: Shit, just stop posting, you offer nothing really, just bullshit and hate...

:applause:

[Rocketswin2013]

Looking at his prime/healthy years (bolded when higher):

1980: 21.3 / 10.4 / 4.5 / 1.7 / 0.6; .538 --> 21.3 / 11.2 / 4.7 / 1.6 / 0.9;, .511

1981: 21.2 / 10.9 / 5.5 / 2.0 / 0.8; .528 --> 21.9 / 14.0 / 6.1 / 2.3 / 1.0; .532

1982: 22.9 / 10.9 / 5.8 / 1.9 / 0.9; .557 --> 17.8 / 12.5 / 5.6 / 1.9 / 1.4; .474

*1983: 23.6 / 11.0 / 5.8 / 1.9 / 0.9; .561 --> 20.5 / 12.5 / 6.8 / 2.2 / 0.5; .478

1984: 24.2 / 10.1 / 6.6 / 1.8 / 0.9; .552 --> 27.5 / 11.0 / 5.9 / 2.3 / 1.2; .607

**1985: 28.7 / 10.5 / 6.6 / 1.6 / 1.2; .585 --> 26.0 / 9.1 / 5.8 / 1.7 / 1.0; .536

1986: 25.8 / 9.8 / 6.8 / 2.0 / 0.6; .580 --> 25.9 / 9.3 / 8.2 / 2.1 / 0.6; .615

1987: 28.1 / 9.2 / 7.6 / 1.8 / 0.9; .612 --> 27.0 / 10.0 / 7.2 / 1.2 / 0.8; .577

***1988: 29.9 / 9.3 / 6.1 / 1.6 / 0.8; .608 --> 24.5 / 8.8 / 6.8 / 2.1 / 0.8; .538

*injured, didn't even play one game, still went out there and played when he shouldn't have

**injured elbow entering the playoffs then severely injured his right hand in a bar fight

***had to get back and ankles surgeries but still played that post-season



I didn't even know this moron posted this.
Why are you nitpicking stats? AND LOL @ you putting asterisks on playoff runs. :roll: :roll: If Bird couldn't stay healthy it's his own damn fault. And it's funny watching you note this shit when you said Bird was the "toughest player ever" in that thread about him playing though high temperatures or some other shit. :roll: :roll:


And you're noting the fact that some stats got higher when other stats plummeted. And the volume stats for 1987 means almost nothing. He was playing alot more minutes and still couldn't match his regular season scoring. His TRB%, Assist%, and TOV rate all got worse too. That's why the advanced stats get significantly worse and rightfully so.

And to top this off, even BIRD's BEST runs don't come close to LeBron's. LeBron's playoff play is at an entirely different standard
Can you imagine LeBron doing the shit Bird did in the playoffs? And before you make a senseless rant about stacked teams defenses or Wtf ever, East defenses have ALWAYS been great these past few years(DRTG). LeBron just shat on them.


In short, peak LeBron > peak Bird and its not even close.

[DMAVS41]

Really all posts NumberSix made topped yours... "was probably better than you realize" lol what a cop out.. still not better than LeBron's.

I'm not sure about that.

I would actually take peak Bird ever so slightly over peak Lebron. The fact that you think it's not a question just shows your ignorance. Sorry.

[ThePhantomCreep]

I didn't even know this moron posted this.
Why are you nitpicking stats? AND LOL @ you putting asterisks on playoff runs. :roll: :roll: If Bird couldn't stay healthy it's his own damn fault. And it's funny watching you note this shit when you said Bird was the "toughest player ever" in that thread about him playing though high temperatures or some other shit. :roll: :roll:


And you're noting the fact that some stats got higher when other stats plummeted. And the volume stats for 1987 means almost nothing. He was playing alot more minutes and still couldn't match his regular season scoring. His TRB%, Assist%, and TOV rate all got worse too. That's why the advanced stats get significantly worse and rightfully so.

And to top this off, even BIRD's BEST runs don't come close to LeBron's. LeBron's playoff play is at an entirely different standard
Can you imagine LeBron doing the shit Bird did in the playoffs? And before you make a senseless rant about stacked teams defenses or Wtf ever, East defenses have ALWAYS been great these past few years(DRTG). LeBron just shat on them.


In short, peak LeBron > peak Bird and its not even close.

Good grief you're an idiot. Peak LeBron has to scratch and claw to beat the 900-year Spurs and Celtics (with superior squads), plays in a historically shitty conference--where half the playoff teams would be on the outside looking in if the played in he West. Cream puff. LeBron would shit his pants if he had to face Showtime, Dr. J's Sixers or Bad Boy Pistons.

[knicksman]

because statpadders are exposed in the playoffs. 1 ring as a 2nd option then 1 ring with the help of GOAT team. Looks like he only has 1 legit ring. LOL

[97 bulls]

One of the biggest Bird's haters here, not surprised by that post. You've proven to be pretty ignorant too.

Just mad that Bird was owning your boy Jordan, every single time :oldlol: Dude had to get injured and old, same for the C's, for MJ to be champ :lol Also owned your boy Pippen, even at old age with career ending injuries, and owned Rodman so much that he was salty af, even dunked on Dennis.

:roll:
What do I got to be mad about? Jordans Bulls never let me down. Can you say the same for the Bird led Celtics? 10 times. Count them 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 times he led the best team in the league into the regular season. He only won Three of them. And on of those times, the opposing team beat themselves. Talk about luck of the Irish.

And if your gonna penalize Jordan then lets scrutinize Birds Celtics in 91. He led a 56 win Celtic team against the Pistons and got smoked like a cheap cigarette. He wasnt even good enough to make the conference Finals.

[97 bulls]

You are such a hypocrite. In other threads you talk about how people Idolize Jordan too much and how people don't give enough credit to the team around him. You even use the '94 season as an example to how well Chicago played that year without Jordan. Now in this thread you are saying the opposite.:oldlol:
The team was great. Im not arguing that. But he did join them and make them greater. Taking what was essentially a 55 win team to the level of 72 (along with) Rodman is far more impressive than taking a bad team to a good record

[mehyaM24]

too bad larry couldnt come thru in 3 title opportunities vs MAGIC. no excuses either. bird shot 7-21 in the ncaa title game, if he played well i wouldnt say shit. bird shot .449% in 85 finals. if he played well i wouldnt say shit. bird shot .445% in 87 finals. if he played well i wouldnt say shit. to recap.....bird not only lost 3 times to magic,but played below his standards all 3 times.

lebron and magic > bird

[jzek]

Because most of the people that claim Bird is by far superior to Lebron still are those that never actually watched Bird play but are just bran haters :lol

Game 7, your team down by 1 with 3 seconds left. Who would you rather take the final shot - LeBron or Bird?

There you go.

That's the reason Bird will ALWAYS be ahead of LeBron in the all time list.

[Rocketswin2013]

too bad larry couldnt come thru in 3 title opportunities vs MAGIC. no excuses either. bird shot 7-21 in the ncaa title game, if he played well i wouldnt say shit. bird shot .449% in 85 finals. if he played well i wouldnt say shit. bird shot .445% in 87 finals. if he played well i wouldnt say shit. to recap.....bird not only lost 3 times to magic,but played below his standards all 3 times.

lebron and magic > bird
I don't think Magic is better than Bird tbh...They both have a case over each other though.

[mehyaM24]

i think its close too, bit of hyperbole my way. sorry :oldlol: in their primes, they were all about equal.....

not a big bird fan, but he said it best. birds own words in the book WHEN THE GAME WAS OURS......"is he(jordan) better than magic johnson at the peak of his career?..no..he's the best for an overall period of time maybe but when you put ME,MAGIC,and MICHAEL at the height of our careers,i dont think you'd find that big a difference"

....birds feelings are that with their prime abilities,there isnt much separation between the 3. if anyone has the book, go to page 252....the summer after the 98 bulls beat the pacers in 7 games in the ECF

[knicksman]

bird. the only GOAT player that was carried by great teammates:lol

[mr4speed]

James harden practically had a broken hand in the 2012 Finals..I don't really care to mention it because that's an excuse..Everybody goes through adversity and everybody goes through injuries, circumstances, etc....

But Larry Bird flatout choked in 81-83. No excuses. In 85, and 87 he choked. NO EXCUSES.

Also, staying healthy is an attribute. That is something that you have to evaluate and Bird was injury prone and couldn't conistently stay healthy. His fault.

LOL - what a pathetic post!In 81 Bird outplayed Dr J (season MVP) head to head in 1 of the greatest series ever with 2 great teams, and in game 7 hit the game winner (bank shot) that won the series. In the finals he was the best player, despite having 2 low scoring games, and although his shooting % slipped, he more than made up for it by pulling 15.3 rebounds per game, 7 assists per game, and dominating the 4th Quarter in game 6 to win the chip. In Nov of 81 in anticipation of the 81-82 season, Bird was on the cover of SI as "The NBA's best all around player". In 82 and 83 post season, he played poorly - all players do at some time. In 85 Kareem was the difference in that series and in 87 the Celtics were hammered with injuries. Your definition of choke is a joke! I can't hear you clearly over the loud noise of that axe you are grinding against Bird.

[Rocketswin2013]

LOL - what a pathetic post!In 81 Bird outplayed Dr J (season MVP) head to head in 1 of the greatest series ever with 2 great teams, and in game 7 hit the game winner (bank shot) that won the series. In the finals he was the best player, despite having 2 low scoring games, and although his shooting % slipped, he more than made up for it by pulling 15.3 rebounds per game, 7 assists per game, and dominating the 4th Quarter in game 6 to win the chip. In Nov of 81 in anticipation of the 81-82 season, Bird was on the cover of SI as "The NBA's best all around player". In 82 and 83 post season, he played poorly - all players do at some time. In 85 Kareem was the difference in that series and in 87 the Celtics were hammered with injuries. Your definition of choke is a joke! I can't hear you clearly over the loud noise of that axe you are grinding against Bird.
Bird is a top 10 all-time player. But LeBron will be better when it's done. This argument is boring to me now. :sleeping: Moving on.

[97 bulls]

Yeah, I know, we've been privy to your 'arguments'.



No he didn't, they also had Rodman...you know, the greatest rebounder of all time, one of the greatest defenders of all time and statistically one of the most significantly important players of all time. Jordan couldn't even take the 2nd worst team in the league and improve them by 17, yet you're saying he improved the best that much? GTFOH.



There are two unreliable arguments:

Those that rely solely on stats and those that rely solely on observation.
Well apparently you weren't "privied" enough. I told you the difference between the two Celtic teams wasnt just Bird. A new coach in Bill Fitch, the 79 team was riddled with injuries, they got another key contributor in ML Carr and Bird.

[97 bulls]

too bad larry couldnt come thru in 3 title opportunities vs MAGIC. no excuses either. bird shot 7-21 in the ncaa title game, if he played well i wouldnt say shit. bird shot .449% in 85 finals. if he played well i wouldnt say shit. bird shot .445% in 87 finals. if he played well i wouldnt say shit. to recap.....bird not only lost 3 times to magic,but played below his standards all 3 times.

lebron and magic > bird
Lol

[Pushxx]

Most superstar players of the 80s are underrated. It's not a surprise.

The atmosphere of the league bred highly competitive and intense basketball. The Eastern Conference was legendary.

[97 bulls]

Most superstar players of the 80s are underrated. It's not a surprise.

The atmosphere of the league bred highly competitive and intense basketball. The Eastern Conference was legendary.
It was better than the West at the time. But what was so competitive about the Eastern conference then?

Early 80s it was the Sixers and Celtics. Mid 80s Bucks and Celtics. Late 80s Pistons and Celtics.

[mr4speed]

It was better than the West at the time. But what was so competitive about the Eastern conference then?

Early 80s it was the Sixers and Celtics. Mid 80s Bucks and Celtics. Late 80s Pistons and Celtics.
I used to think that was an east coast bias until I read "Basketball Abstract" by Dave Heeren. He compared all the east teams vs all the west teams and discovered that the east dominated the west every single year for the entire decade of the 80's. The Knicks were a good team when Bernard King seemed to be unstoppable and the Hawks were a good team with Dominique Wilkins and the Bulls kept improving. For another viewpoint just look at the Lakers games won - lost record vs west coast playoff teams and east coast teams. LA just smoked the west coast teams but against the east coast actually had a sub 500 win %.

[SHAQisGOAT]

James harden practically had a broken hand in the 2012 Finals..I don't really care to mention it because that's an excuse..Everybody goes through adversity and everybody goes through injuries, circumstances, etc....

But Larry Bird flatout choked in 81-83. No excuses. In 85, and 87 he choked. NO EXCUSES.

Also, staying healthy is an attribute. That is something that you have to evaluate and Bird was injury prone and couldn't conistently stay healthy. His fault.

Did this fool just mention James Harden? :roll: Bird's a proven winner, one of the best players ever, one of the best in the clutch and in the PS, raised his game more often than not, did what more than what he had to do, ofc I can talk about when injuries struck, I won't even make it as an excuse since he never did... You wanna compare that to James ****ing Harden??? Was he injured this year also? Certainly played like it :lol

1981? :wtf: Outplaying the MVP in the toughest series coming back from a 3-1 deficit then on the way to leading a team that previously sucked to a championship, closing the season with 27/13/5 performance (on really good efficiency and clutch 4th) is choking? Stop trolling fool, you're act is up, take it somewhere else :facepalm :facepalm
1983, not being able to play due to injury is choking? Even missed one game but wante to play, you can bet that your favorite player would be sitting on the bench :oldlol:
1985, taking a team to the Finals with an injured hand and elbow then taking a team that would absolutely rape the current league, for example, is choking?
1987, getting through some real gruelsome series, carrying a team with no bench past the Bad Boys with some really clutch plays/performances, then taking one of the GOAT to 6, with a broken down team, is choking? GTFOH

Not just an attribute, if he played right now with advanced medicine and everything else you can think of, he'd definetely would've had a longer career... Still had 9 terrific prime/healthy years, an out of this world peak, still won a lot and displayed a level of basketball that few reach.

Just realized that Bird led the Celtics over the Rockets in 1981 and then destroyed them in 1986 as the only play to ever average a triple-double in the Finals (:bowdown: underrate that)... Houston could've had 2 more titles if it wasn't for Larry :oldlol:

You're just a troll or a very ignorant person... Don't even deserve another reply. I've schooled you enough and I'm way out of your league in terms of basketball... Bet you've never even played a single organized game, bet you haven't been watching for more than a couple of years. You're just sad :facepalm :oldlol:

[GimmeThat]

because you can spend your defense on trying to stop Larry Bird.

but it isn't really going to stop him from running his team over you.


at least not on 3 occasions apparently...

[bdreason]

Bird's Celtics would embarrass this Heat team.

[MiseryCityTexas]

His numbers went down against the 76ers in the play-offs because he was physically afraid of Doctor J.

[Rocketswin2013]

Did this fool just mention James Harden? :roll: Bird's a proven winner, one of the best players ever, one of the best in the clutch and in the PS, raised his game more often than not, did what more than what he had to do, ofc I can talk about when injuries struck, I won't even make it as an excuse since he never did... You wanna compare that to James ****ing Harden??? Was he injured this year also? Certainly played like it :lol

1981? :wtf: Outplaying the MVP in the toughest series coming back from a 3-1 deficit then on the way to leading a team that previously sucked to a championship, closing the season with 27/13/5 performance (on really good efficiency and clutch 4th) is choking? Stop trolling fool, you're act is up, take it somewhere else
1983, not being able to play due to injury is choking? Even missed one game but wante to play, you can bet that your favorite player would be sitting on the bench
1985, taking a team to the Finals with an injured hand and elbow then taking a team that would absolutely rape the current league, for example, is choking?
1987, getting through some real gruelsome series, carrying a team with no bench past the Bad Boys with some really clutch plays/performances, then taking one of the GOAT to 6, with a broken down team, is choking? GTFOH

Not just an attribute, if he played right now with advanced medicine and everything else you can think of, he'd definetely would've had a longer career... Still had 9 terrific prime/healthy years, an out of this world peak, still won a lot and displayed a level of basketball that few reach.

Just realized that Bird led the Celtics over the Rockets in 1981 and then destroyed them in 1986 as the only play to ever average a triple-double in the Finals (:bowdown: underrate that)... Houston could've had 2 more titles if it wasn't for Larry :oldlol:

You're just a troll or a very ignorant person... Don't even deserve another reply. I've schooled you enough and I'm way out of your league in terms of basketball... Bet you've never even played a single organized game, bet you haven't been watching for more than a couple of years. You're just sad :facepalm :oldlol:


Literally couldn't care less at this point tbh. LeBron's peak > Bird
But lol @ this meltdown. Organized game? Houston lost titles? You're unraveling. :facepalm

[LeBird]

Nobody made such a claim. Defense in the 60's was much tougher than defense in the 90's by a large margin.

Right now is a weak era for centers. If there is a strong era for centers in the future, that doesn't mean it was the first time in NBA history. Things aren't constant. Just because point A and point Z have strong defense doesn't mean all points in between had to have had strong defense too. Obvi.

I see, so it's just stupid in another way...that the 80s didn't have no defense. Like, the whole league suddenly stopped having defenders for a decade and resumed back after. :facepalm


Across the board mainly.

Like, how is it that the stats are put to you in plain sight showing basically no regression apart from his shooting %s yet you repeat this. Are you stupid or blind?

[MiseryCityTexas]

Bird struggled against tall, athletic black small forwards. Erving, Wilkins, Marques Johnson, Bernard King, Mark Aguirre, Worthy.

[Rose'sACL]

Bird's Celtics would embarrass this Heat team.
Miami would trade for a good D and rebound big guy and take it to 7 at least.

[LeBird]

What do I got to be mad about? Jordans Bulls never let me down. Can you say the same for the Bird led Celtics? 10 times. Count them 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 times he led the best team in the league into the regular season. He only won Three of them. And on of those times, the opposing team beat themselves. Talk about luck of the Irish.

And if your gonna penalize Jordan then lets scrutinize Birds Celtics in 91. He led a 56 win Celtic team against the Pistons and got smoked like a cheap cigarette. He wasnt even good enough to make the conference Finals.

Unfortunately, Bird and Celtics didn't have their dynasty in the 90s - the weakest era in the last 30-40 years - like your Bulls. They had to do it in the toughest. :lol


too bad larry couldnt come thru in 3 title opportunities vs MAGIC. no excuses either. bird shot 7-21 in the ncaa title game, if he played well i wouldnt say shit. bird shot .449% in 85 finals. if he played well i wouldnt say shit. bird shot .445% in 87 finals. if he played well i wouldnt say shit. to recap.....bird not only lost 3 times to magic,but played below his standards all 3 times.

lebron and magic > bird

And each time Magic had the far better team. Swap those teams, NCAA and NBA, and Bird never loses to Magic.

[LeBird]

Well apparently you weren't "privied" enough. I told you the difference between the two Celtic teams wasnt just Bird. A new coach in Bill Fitch, the 79 team was riddled with injuries, they got another key contributor in ML Carr and Bird.

And no one in their right mind buys those arguments. Bird was far and away the reason they improved on that record.

Most superstar players of the 80s are underrated. It's not a surprise.

The atmosphere of the league bred highly competitive and intense basketball. The Eastern Conference was legendary.

Well, of course. Think about it...those Lakers...maybe the greatest team in a 10 year stretch (Russell's Celtics aside for now) and they could only win 5. They had a deep ass team and 2 of the top 6 GOAT candidates.


Literally couldn't care less at this point tbh. LeBron's peak > Bird
But lol @ this meltdown. Organized game? Houston lost titles? You're unraveling. :facepalm

Haha, so when he rapes your argument multiple times it comes down to 'couldn't really care less at this point'.

Here's a tip, if you don't care arguing your insanely stupid point...STFU from the get-go.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Well I'll take back what I said about Dominique Wilkins. I've seen Bird on multiple occasions beast and put up numbers on Wilkins. Then again, Wilkins's teams sucked ass compared to the other small forwards I mentioned.

[KevinNYC]

And Bird needed Maxwell to bail him out in the other.
We've gone from Maxwell won the Finals MVP to Maxwell bailed out Bird? Pathetic. :facepalm

This is stupid message board inherited wisdom and can only be posted if you know nothing about that series. They both had a couple of games where they didn't score well.

Game 1 (http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1981.htm) Bird clearly outplays Maxwell
Bird 18-21-9
Maxwell 10-9-5
Celtics Win by 3.

Game 2 Bird clearly outplays Maxwell
Bird 19-21-3 also 5 steals
Maxwell 6-4-2
Celtics Lose by 2.

Game 3 One of Bird's poor shooting games, but nice rebound and assists numbers, this will be the pattern for the next three games
Bird 8-13-10 also 5 steals
Maxwell 19-10-0
Both also had 2 blocks

Was Bird outplayed by Maxwell? Debatable?
Was he bailed out by Maxwell? Absolutely not. The Celtics won by 23. Their defense was killer and they had their fast break rolling, 6 score in double figures.

Game 4 One of Bird's poor shooting games, again nice rebound and assist numbers. Nice game by Maxwell
Bird 8-12-12
Maxwell 24-14-1
Celtics lose by 5

Game 5 Maxwell's best game.
Bird 12-12-8
Maxwell 28-15-3
Again was Bird bailed out? No.
Celtics won by 29. Another fast break fest.

Game 6 Bird clearly outplays Maxwell and by consensus put the game away in the fourth quarter after Houston got as close as 3 points.
Bird 26-13-5
Maxwell 19-5-6

Celtics win by 11

In a 6 game series Bird led his team (not just Maxwell) in
scoring 3 times
rebounding 4 times
assists 4 times

Maxwell led the team in
scoring 3 times
rebounding 2 times
assists 0 times

Remember this is the days before the term "triple-double" was used and box scores looked like this
http://001-jk-files.s3.amazonaws.com/images/boxscores/198105050BOS.jpg
That's from game 1 where Bird had a fairly monster first game, but you wouldn't know it from that boxscore. Bird shot poorly in three games, but even in those games he was still making an impact everywhere else.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bird struggled against tall, athletic black small forwards. Erving, Wilkins, Marques Johnson, Bernard King, Mark Aguirre, Worthy.

:biggums:

1981 ECF (Bird guarded also by Caldwell Jones and Bobby Jones, both 6'9 and above, both great defenders especially Bobby, both great athletes)

Larry Bird (sophomore) - 26.7 / 13.4 / 4.6 on 48.6% FG / 55.4% TS

Julius Erving (MVP) - 19.9 / 5.9 rpg / 4.1 on 43.3% FG / 48.8% TS


1984 ECSF (outscored peak King on better efficiency and majorly outplayed across the board including in game7)

Larry Bird 30.4 / 10.6 / 7.1 on 58.5% FG / 64.9% TS

Bernard King: 29.1 on 54.5% FG / 59.7% TS


1984 ECF

Larry Bird: 27.4 / 10.0 / 6.0 on 50.0% FG / 62.0% TS

Marques Johnson: 20.2 on 49.2% TS


1984 Finals (guarded by Worthy and Cooper)

Larry Bird: 27.4 / 14.0 / 3.6 on 48.4% FG / 59.5% TS


1986 ECSF

Larry Bird: 27.2 / 9.6 / 7.0 on 53% FG / 60.8% TS

Dominique Wilkins: 24.0 / 6.0 / 3.8 39.8% FG / 49.4% TS


Struggled :rolleyes: :facepalm


Look at some of the players guarding him through the years

Michael Cooper
Bobby Jones
Dennis Rodman
Julius Erving
Rodney McCray
Dominique Wilkins
Scottie Pippen
Paul Pressey
James Worthy
Sidney Moncrief
Michael Jordan
Orlando Woolridge
Xavier McDaniel
Cliff Robinson
Horace Grant
Dan Roundfield
Larry Nance
Caldwell Jones
Mark Aguirre
Jerome Kersey
Charles Barkley
Tom Chambers
Buck Williams
Jamaal Wilkes
Marque Johnson
Lonnie Shelton
Clyde Drexler
Kenny Walker
Chuck Person
Terry Cummings
.........
Lots of (some all-time) great athletes and/or defenders, plenty of bigger guys too. Go look at some of those guys play, see what they could do, read about them, be impressed and quit talking nonsense... Shit, people talk about athleticism, size and whatnot, but I'd argue that, overall/on average, Bird was guarded by better defender and better athletes than someone like LeBron, bigger dudes too, especially when you give a big factor to the post-season. And they could play Larry with tougher, more physical play, plus they were better, bigger and realer bigmen packing the paint.

He mostly played against those "type" of players throughout his career and look at it all in the end... Also, watch Bird "struggle" against those dudes :rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msEmcemLR7M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksp82aw-jqg

[SHAQisGOAT]

We've gone from Maxwell won the Finals MVP to Maxwell bailed out Bird? Pathetic. :facepalm

This is stupid message board inherited wisdom and can only be posted if you know nothing about that series. They both had a couple of games where they didn't score well.

Game 1 (http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1981.htm) Bird clearly outplays Maxwell
Bird 18-21-9
Maxwell 10-9-5
Celtics Win by 3.

Game 2 Bird clearly outplays Maxwell
Bird 19-21-3 also 5 steals
Maxwell 6-4-2
Celtics Lose by 2.

Game 3 One of Bird's poor shooting games, but nice rebound and assists numbers, this will be the pattern for the next three games
Bird 8-13-10 also 5 steals
Maxwell 19-10-0
Both also had 2 blocks

Was Bird outplayed by Maxwell? Debatable?
Was he bailed out by Maxwell? Absolutely not. The Celtics won by 23. Their defense was killer and they had their fast break rolling, 6 score in double figures.

Game 4 One of Bird's poor shooting games, again nice rebound and assist numbers. Nice game by Maxwell
Bird 8-12-12
Maxwell 24-14-1
Celtics lose by 5

Game 5 Maxwell's best game.
Bird 12-12-8
Maxwell 28-15-3
Again was Bird bailed out? No.
Celtics won by 29. Another fast break fest.

Game 6 Bird clearly outplays Maxwell and by consensus put the game away in the fourth quarter after Houston got as close as 3 points.
Bird 26-13-5
Maxwell 19-5-6

Celtics win by 11

In a 6 game series Bird led his team (not just Maxwell) in
scoring 3 times
rebounding 4 times
assists 4 times

Maxwell led the team in
scoring 3 times
rebounding 2 times
assists 0 times

Remember this is the days before the term "triple-double" was used and box scores looked like this
http://001-jk-files.s3.amazonaws.com/images/boxscores/198105050BOS.jpg
That's from game 1 where Bird had a fairly monster first game, but you wouldn't know it from that boxscore. Bird shot poorly in three games, but even in those games he was still making an impact everywhere else.

:applause: :applause:

Bird was the real FMVP of the series, if he got the "Magic treatment", he would've gotten the award, definitely... He wasn't well liked by the media and vice-versa though, on the contrary, and never outspoken, arriving at the league.

Dudes talking about boxscores and whatnot like they even watched the games... Bird was not far, at all, behind Conrbread in terms of scoring but head-n-shoulders above in terms of rebounding and playmaking, he was even playing better D, plus was very clutch.
Just a small taste:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDk9y0Vul5A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoXOAs4Gz5A

[KevinNYC]

Bird struggled against tall, athletic black small forwards. Erving, Wilkins, Marques Johnson, Bernard King, Mark Aguirre, Worthy.

Define struggle.

Also that does not define the universe of tall, athletic black small forwards back in the 1980's, just the elite ones.

[KevinNYC]

:applause: :applause:

Bird was the real FMVP of the series, if he got the "Magic treatment", he would've gotten the award, definitely... He wasn't well liked by the media and vice-versa though, on the contrary, and never outspoken, arriving at the league.

Dudes talking about boxscores and whatnot like they even watched the games... Bird was not far, at all, behind Conrbread in terms of scoring but head-n-shoulders above in terms of rebounding and playmaking, he was even playing better D, plus was very clutch.
Just a small taste:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDk9y0Vul5A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoXOAs4Gz5A


I don't think the not liked by media thing at anything to do with it. For certain the broadcasters knew Bird meant ratings and for the press guys they most likely knew their readers would prefer to read about Bird. I think Maxwell won the FMVP for these reasons

A. Assists and rebounds were simply discounted back then, best scorer = best player for most people
B. The expected storyline would have been for Bird to win the MVP. So when Maxwell started coming on strong mid series, it was a twist in the script.
C. Bird wasn't just scoring low because he wasn't taking shots. He was taking shots and for three straight games missing a bunch he usually makes.

So I think if you discount the all around game like they did back then, (Can you imagine someone accepting that boxscore today?) AND you have mid-series narrative that Bird is not playing well, it didn't matter what he did in game 6, the ink was dry on the story.

[WillC]

Bird struggled against tall, athletic black small forwards. Erving, Wilkins, Marques Johnson, Bernard King, Mark Aguirre, Worthy.

Bullshit.

Bird regularly torched the likes of Wilkins, Pippen, Erving, etc - some of the most athletic small forwards of all-time.

[KevinNYC]

:biggums:

1981 ECF (Bird guarded also by Caldwell Jones and Bobby Jones, both 6'9 and above, both great defenders especially Bobby, both great athletes)

Larry Bird (sophomore) - 26.7 / 13.4 / 4.6 on 48.6% FG / 55.4% TS

Julius Erving (MVP) - 19.9 / 5.9 rpg / 4.1 on 43.3% FG / 48.8% TS


1984 ECSF (outscored peak King on better efficiency and majorly outplayed across the board including in game7)

Larry Bird 30.4 / 10.6 / 7.1 on 58.5% FG / 64.9% TS

Bernard King: 29.1 on 54.5% FG / 59.7% TS


1984 ECF

Larry Bird: 27.4 / 10.0 / 6.0 on 50.0% FG / 62.0% TS

Marques Johnson: 20.2 on 49.2% TS


1984 Finals (guarded by Worthy and Cooper)

Larry Bird: 27.4 / 14.0 / 3.6 on 48.4% FG / 59.5% TS


1986 ECSF

Larry Bird: 27.2 / 9.6 / 7.0 on 53% FG / 60.8% TS

Dominique Wilkins: 24.0 / 6.0 / 3.8 39.8% FG / 49.4% TS


Struggled :rolleyes: :facepalm


Look at some of the players guarding him through the years

Michael Cooper
Bobby Jones
Dennis Rodman
Julius Erving
Rodney McCray
Dominique Wilkins
Scottie Pippen
Paul Pressey
James Worthy
Sidney Moncrief
Michael Jordan
Orlando Woolridge
Xavier McDaniel
Cliff Robinson
Horace Grant
Dan Roundfield
Larry Nance
Caldwell Jones
Mark Aguirre
Jerome Kersey
Charles Barkley
Tom Chambers
Buck Williams
Jamaal Wilkes
Marque Johnson
Lonnie Shelton
Clyde Drexler
Kenny Walker
Chuck Person
Terry Cummings
.........
Lots of (some all-time) great athletes and/or defenders, plenty of bigger guys too. Go look at some of those guys play, see what they could do, read about them, be impressed and quit talking nonsense... Shit, people talk about athleticism, size and whatnot, but I'd argue that, overall/on average, Bird was guarded by better defender and better athletes than someone like LeBron, bigger dudes too, especially when you give a big factor to the post-season. And they could play Larry with tougher, more physical play, plus they were better, bigger and realer bigmen packing the paint.

He mostly played against those "type" of players throughout his career and look at it all in the end... Also, watch Bird "struggle" against those dudes :rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msEmcemLR7M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksp82aw-jqg


Nice post. I didn't want to look up the stats, but I don't really remember Bird struggling against too many of them. That's why I asked to define struggle, because that just seemed an odd list to me. Was Mark Aguirre known for being really good against Bird? First I've heard of it.

[MiseryCityTexas]

SMH at clowns acting like Cedric Maxwell didn't have that one MVP Finals in 1981.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Bullshit.

Bird regularly torched the likes of Wilkins, Pippen, Erving, etc - some of the most athletic small forwards of all-time.


A 100 % healthy Bernard King destroyed Bird's Celtics in the play-offs in the mid 80s, and Erving used to hold Bird under his normal scoring averages in the play-offs plenty of times in the early 80s.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Nice post. I didn't want to look up the stats, but I don't really remember Bird struggling against too many of them. That's why I asked to define struggle, because that just seemed an odd list to me. Was Mark Aguirre known for being really good against Bird? First I've heard of it.

Why look up at some h2h stats or something? The post that that dude made was purely bullshit... Bird was mostly facing those players I've mentioned and more along those lines (terrific overall competition, in terms of defense, athleticism and size), and "wound up" with all-time great stats, all-time great impact, winning 3 MVP's in a row and always at the very top in his prime and making all-nba 1st always too, winning 3 rings as the man, making 5 Finals, turning a franchise around, winning most of those matchups, best fowards/player in the decade, best peak, amongst other things... But yea, he was struggling :facepalm Comment doesn't even make any sense, tbh don't even know why I've responded to such a clear and sad troll attempt.

Mark Aguirre, you ask?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCPcllt8At4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltm2Phj0oSE

Yea, the struggle is real :rolleyes: :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

SMH at clowns acting like Cedric Maxwell didn't have that one MVP Finals in 1981.

Bird fans are almost as ungrateful as Jordan stans :facepalm

Imagine if LeBron had a "role player" like a Maxwell, going off for 24/8/8 in a finals game 7?

Which is what Maxwell did in 1984... player of the game to win the title over LA.

ShaqisGoat poster is a disgrace.. disgusting bias

[SHAQisGOAT]

A 100 % healthy Bernard King destroyed Bird's Celtics in the play-offs in the mid 80s, and Erving used to hold Bird under his normal scoring averages in the play-offs plenty of times in the early 80s.

1984 ECSF
(outscored peak King on better efficiency and majorly outplayed him across the board)

Larry Bird 30.4 / 10.6 / 7.1 on 58.5% FG / 64.9% TS

Bernard King: 29.1 on 54.5% FG / 59.7% TS

Game 7 of that series

Bird: 39/12/10/3 on 13/24 FG, 12/12 FT

King: 24 points on 8/17 FG, 8/10 FT

If 100% healthy, peak Bernard King destroyed them what did Bird do to the Knicks??? Certified murder or something :lol


Julius Erving's MVP season and arguably his best in the NBA...

1981 ECF
(Bird guarded also by Bobby Jones and Caldwell Jones, both 6'9 and above, both great defenders especially Bobby, both great athletes, some terrific all-time great D on Larry; better than what the C's could offer defensively against the Dr.)

Larry Bird (sophomore) - 26.7 / 13.4 / 4.6 on 48.6% FG / 55.4% TS

Julius Erving (MVP) - 19.9 / 5.9 rpg / 4.1 on 43.3% FG / 48.8% TS


Struggle is real people :rolleyes: :facepalm :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

this shaqisgoat dude is jlauber's larry bird version...

writes long essays to make excuses and bend the facts his way.. your boy is a postseason choker, own up.

[MiseryCityTexas]

1984 ECSF
(outscored peak King on better efficiency and majorly outplayed him across the board)

Larry Bird 30.4 / 10.6 / 7.1 on 58.5% FG / 64.9% TS

Bernard King: 29.1 on 54.5% FG / 59.7% TS

Game 7 of that series

Bird: 39/12/10/3 on 13/24 FG, 12/12 FT

King: 24 points on 8/17 FG, 8/10 FT

If 100% healthy, peak Bernard King destroyed them what did Bird do to the Knicks??? Certified murder or something :lol


Julius Erving's MVP season and arguably his best in the NBA...

1981 ECF
(Bird guarded also by Bobby Jones and Caldwell Jones, both 6'9 and above, both great defenders especially Bobby, both great athletes, some terrific all-time great D on Larry; better than what the C's could offer defensively against the Dr.)

Larry Bird (sophomore) - 26.7 / 13.4 / 4.6 on 48.6% FG / 55.4% TS

Julius Erving (MVP) - 19.9 / 5.9 rpg / 4.1 on 43.3% FG / 48.8% TS


Struggle is real people :rolleyes: :facepalm :oldlol:


What about in 1982? 1983 and 1985? Bird and the Celtics weren't shit but a good play-off team. :rolleyes: :oldlol:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bird fans are almost as ungrateful as Jordan stans :facepalm

Imagine if LeBron had a "role player" like a Maxwell, going off for 24/8/8 in a finals game 7?

Which is what Maxwell did in 1984... player of the game to win the title over LA.

ShaqisGoat poster is a disgrace.. disgusting bias

:coleman:

No need to imagine nothing, LeBron had a teammate averaging 26.5/7.0/5.2/1.5/1.5 on .614 TS%, FOR A WHOLE FINALS SERIES, and he couldn't win the title
And another one with 18.5 on .496 TS%... In fact, both outscoring him
:roll:

Oh and Larry was going through a really tough EC then facing the showtime Lakers with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis, Wilkes... While Bron was riding through a weak-ass EC, then facing a team that showtime LA wouldn't have too much trouble to beat, trolled like a bitch against rolle players
:roll:

Maxwell never received MVP votes, never all-nba, never all-star, where was he before Bird, when the C's were a terrible team, and he was averaging worse numbers too???? Bron joined a top5 player and a top10 player in the league
:roll:

1984 NBA Finals...
Bird: 27.4/14.0/3.6/2.1/1.1, on 48.4% FG
Maxwell: 13.0/5.6/3.3/1.1/0.3, on 45.8% FG

Sure you wanna go about that one?? In the 1984 post-season, Bird led the team in FG%, FT%, points, rebounds, assists, steals... Just to see how the others were underperforming while he was wrecking shit up...
Larry scored 10 more than the next "best" teammate, and looking at %'s:
Bird - 52.4% FG
DJ/Parish/McHale/Henderson/Maxwell combined (ones scoring over 10 ppg) - 46.9% FG
All of the Celtics' players combined, excluding Bird - 45.8% FG
League average (post-season) - 48.2% FG

You make it too easy, son. Calling me a disgrace? Go to school, child, shit you've just been taken there.
Ignorant fool :rolleyes: :facepalm :oldlol:

[MiseryCityTexas]

Bird n Parish were a non factor as soon as the 76ers got rid of overrated Darryl Dawkins, and post offensive liability Caldwell Jones, and getting prime Moses Malone.

[SHAQisGOAT]

What about in 1982? 1983 and 1985? Bird and the Celtics weren't shit but a good play-off team. :rolleyes: :oldlol:

1982? Almost made the Finals, like the year before (when he led to a championship with a previously shitty team and almost the same roster)

1983? Couldn't even play 1 game because of injury but then still went out there... Your favorite player would've been on the bench :oldlol:

1985? Got to the Finals with no easy road, far from it, and with an injured hadn and elbow still helped the C's take one of the GOAT teams to 6... Team with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Scott, Cooper, Rambis.. that would've just stomped your favorite team :oldlol:

Give it a rest, stop trolling

[ArbitraryWater]

You make it too easy, son. Calling me a disgrace? Go to school, child, shit you've just been taken there.
Ignorant fool :rolleyes: :facepalm :oldlol:

:biggums: :roll: :roll:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bird n Parish were a non factor as soon as the 76ers got rid of overrated Darryl Dawkins, and post offensive liability Caldwell Jones, and getting prime Moses Malone.

Yea just a non-factor..
Where were they after 1983 though? :confusedshrug: When Bird and the C's were still making Finals and winning rings, but yea call Larry a non-factor :rolleyes:

[ArbitraryWater]

This dude actually thinks he knows shit :lol

[SHAQisGOAT]

:biggums: :roll: :roll:

Dodging my post?? :roll: You know you've just got hit with that ether, son.

Here it is again...

No need to imagine nothing, LeBron had a teammate averaging 26.5/7.0/5.2/1.5/1.5 on .614 TS%, FOR A WHOLE FINALS SERIES, and he couldn't win the title
And another one with 18.5 on .496 TS%... In fact, both outscoring him
:roll:

Oh and Larry was going through a really tough EC then facing the showtime Lakers with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis, Wilkes... While Bron was riding through a weak-ass EC, then facing a team that showtime LA wouldn't have too much trouble to beat, trolled like a bitch against rolle players
:roll:

Maxwell never received MVP votes, never all-nba, never all-star, where was he before Bird, when the C's were a terrible team, and he was averaging worse numbers too???? Bron joined a top5 player and a top10 player in the league
:roll:

1984 NBA Finals...
Bird: 27.4/14.0/3.6/2.1/1.1, on 48.4% FG
Maxwell: 13.0/5.6/3.3/1.1/0.3, on 45.8% FG

Sure you wanna go about that one?? In the 1984 post-season, Bird led the team in FG%, FT%, points, rebounds, assists, steals... Just to see how the others were underperforming while he was wrecking shit up...
Larry scored 10 more than the next "best" teammate, and looking at %'s:
Bird - 52.4% FG
DJ/Parish/McHale/Henderson/Maxwell combined (ones scoring over 10 ppg) - 46.9% FG
All of the Celtics' players combined, excluding Bird - 45.8% FG
League average (post-season) - 48.2% FG


Keep talking nonsense though, acting all ignorant :oldlol:



This dude actually thinks he knows shit :lol

I know nothing... A 12-year old ignorant child such as yourself knows it all though :rolleyes:

[MiseryCityTexas]

Celtics could never stop Andrew Toney, yet Jordan would make him his bitch everytime they matched up against each other, and the Celtics had a much better team back then. :oldlol:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Celtics could never stop Andrew Toney, yet Jordan would make him his bitch everytime they matched up against each other, and the Celtics had a much better team back then. :oldlol:

:coleman:

Toney became a shell due to injuries around 1985, Jordan entered the league in 1984-85... Proving your knowledge, your better yet your ignorance once again :facepalm You don't even know what you're talking about :rolleyes: :oldlol:

[MiseryCityTexas]

Yea just a non-factor..
Where were they after 1983 though? :confusedshrug: When Bird and the C's were still making Finals and winning rings, but yea call Larry a non-factor :rolleyes:

I'm talking about in 82 only stupid ****. You people do a really good job of bigging up Superstar accomplishments, yet be quick to downplay all of their losses and failures.:oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Let me end your pain, shagoat..

Just look at Bird's long list of playoff failures for his entire career while not really being able to weigh them out with successes.

1980: Averaged a 47 FG% in the postseason. In game 5 vs. the Sixers Bird shoots 5-19 with just 12 points and the Celtics lose while his matchup Erving averages 25 PPG.
Bird loses in 5 games depsite HCA. Celtics won 61 games in the regular season. (BTW It should be noted that unlike the Cavaliers, the Celtics definitely didn't over-achieve or were simply a regular season team, they were this good.)
A PER of 18.3.

1981: Averaged a 47 FG% in the postseason.
Plays a bad finals series where he averaged just 15 PPG on 42%. Back to back 8 point games, horrid.

1982: Averages an emberassing 18 PPG on 42%. 5 point drop off.
He averaged a pedestrian 18 PPG against the Sixers and 17 PPG in the final 2 games of the series.
Bird loses with HCA AGAIN. The Celtics won 63 games and had the #1 SRS in the league.
A 17.9 PER in the postseason.

1983: Averaged 20 PPG on 42%. Flop.
Bird and the Celtics get swept by the Bucks. Again, can easily be blamed on Bird for more subpar play.
Bird loses with HCA. This time the Celtics won 56 games and had the #2 SRS in the league.
Bird plays awful again. His PPG average drops in the playoffs.
Bird missed a game in the series but that game happened to be the closest one (Celtics lose by 4). In the 3 other games, the Celtics lose by 14.3 PPG with Bird on the court.

1984: Great playoffs.
Averaged 27-14-4 in the Finals and shot the ball at 52%.
First great playoff of his career. Celtics win the title over the Lakers. Bird FMVP.

1985: Celtics make the finals.
Bird averaged 26/9/6 on only 46% shooting. All statistics dropped.
Bird plays even worse in the finals as he averages another poor 24/9/5 on an inefficient 45%.
Celtics won 63 games and yet again lost with HCA.
The first time in Celtics history they lose the Finals with HCA.

1986: Great playoffs. His best year ever. Wins the title. 26/9/8 on 52% overall in the post-season and an amazing finals consisting of 24/10/10 on 48%.

1987: Great until the Finals. 28/10/8 through 3 Rounds but his Averages dropped to 27/10/7 after the Finals. In which he only shot 45%.
In game 6, Bird scored just 16 points on 6-16 (.375) shooting.
In the final 3 games of this series, Bird averaged just 20 PPG on .377 shooting* with 3.7 TOV.
The first time in Bird's career he's played without HCA and his team still loses.

1988: Averages 25/8/7 on 45%.
Bird shoots an awful 40-114 (.351) against the Pistons.
Has a mediocre 20.2 PER in the playoffs.
Lost with HCA while the Celtics had the #1 SRS in the league-

1989: Injured doesn't play in the postseason.

1990: Bird shoots 44% and has 3.6 TOV as the Celtics once again lose with HCA, in the 1st Round.

1991: In the first round, his team barely escapes the 41 win Pacers in 5.
41 FG% and a 15.8 PER in the playoffs. Against the Pistons Bird averages 13.4 PPG on 38%.
56 win team played with you guessed it HCA and loses with it.

1992: DNP 1st Round as the Celtics SWEEP the Pacers without him.
In round 2, his team goes 7 against the Cavs, Bird plays in 4 games and his team was 1-3 in those games. Averages a pathetic 11.3 PPG and 4.5 Reb which are 8.4 PPG and 5.2 Reb down from his regular season average. Shooting 50% and has a 16.4 PER.

In 12 Years, you get 5 Runs of under 45% and 9 runs of under 48%.

A great 4 year run, mediocrity besides that.

Bird underachieved the most out of any great, loosing 7 times with HCA.

[MiseryCityTexas]

:coleman:

Toney became a shell due to injuries around 1985, Jordan entered the league in 1984-85... Proving your knowledge, your better yet your ignorance once again :facepalm You don't even know what you're talking about :rolleyes: :oldlol:

Yeah anybody can pull up stats from Basketball Reference to make somebody look foolish. I'm just going off of memory.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Let me end your pain, shagoat..

Just look at Bird's long list of playoff failures for his entire career while not really being able to weigh them out with successes.

1980: Averaged a 47 FG% in the postseason. In game 5 vs. the Sixers Bird shoots 5-19 with just 12 points and the Celtics lose while his matchup Erving averages 25 PPG.
Bird loses in 5 games depsite HCA. Celtics won 61 games in the regular season. (BTW It should be noted that unlike the Cavaliers, the Celtics definitely didn't over-achieve or were simply a regular season team, they were this good.)
A PER of 18.3.

1981: Averaged a 47 FG% in the postseason.
Plays a bad finals series where he averaged just 15 PPG on 42%. Back to back 8 point games, horrid.

1982: Averages an emberassing 18 PPG on 42%. 5 point drop off.
He averaged a pedestrian 18 PPG against the Sixers and 17 PPG in the final 2 games of the series.
Bird loses with HCA AGAIN. The Celtics won 63 games and had the #1 SRS in the league.
A 17.9 PER in the postseason.

1983: Averaged 20 PPG on 42%. Flop.
Bird and the Celtics get swept by the Bucks. Again, can easily be blamed on Bird for more subpar play.
Bird loses with HCA. This time the Celtics won 56 games and had the #2 SRS in the league.
Bird plays awful again. His PPG average drops in the playoffs.
Bird missed a game in the series but that game happened to be the closest one (Celtics lose by 4). In the 3 other games, the Celtics lose by 14.3 PPG with Bird on the court.

1984: Great playoffs.
Averaged 27-14-4 in the Finals and shot the ball at 52%.
First great playoff of his career. Celtics win the title over the Lakers. Bird FMVP.

1985: Celtics make the finals.
Bird averaged 26/9/6 on only 46% shooting. All statistics dropped.
Bird plays even worse in the finals as he averages another poor 24/9/5 on an inefficient 45%.
Celtics won 63 games and yet again lost with HCA.
The first time in Celtics history they lose the Finals with HCA.

1986: Great playoffs. His best year ever. Wins the title. 26/9/8 on 52% overall in the post-season and an amazing finals consisting of 24/10/10 on 48%.

1987: Great until the Finals. 28/10/8 through 3 Rounds but his Averages dropped to 27/10/7 after the Finals. In which he only shot 45%.
In game 6, Bird scored just 16 points on 6-16 (.375) shooting.
In the final 3 games of this series, Bird averaged just 20 PPG on .377 shooting* with 3.7 TOV.
The first time in Bird's career he's played without HCA and his team still loses.

1988: Averages 25/8/7 on 45%.
Bird shoots an awful 40-114 (.351) against the Pistons.
Has a mediocre 20.2 PER in the playoffs.
Lost with HCA while the Celtics had the #1 SRS in the league-

1989: Injured doesn't play in the postseason.

1990: Bird shoots 44% and has 3.6 TOV as the Celtics once again lose with HCA, in the 1st Round.

1991: In the first round, his team barely escapes the 41 win Pacers in 5.
41 FG% and a 15.8 PER in the playoffs. Against the Pistons Bird averages 13.4 PPG on 38%.
56 win team played with you guessed it HCA and loses with it.

1992: DNP 1st Round as the Celtics SWEEP the Pacers without him.
In round 2, his team goes 7 against the Cavs, Bird plays in 4 games and his team was 1-3 in those games. Averages a pathetic 11.3 PPG and 4.5 Reb which are 8.4 PPG and 5.2 Reb down from his regular season average. Shooting 50% and has a 16.4 PER.

In 12 Years, you get 5 Runs of under 45% and 9 runs of under 48%.

A great 4 year run, mediocrity besides that.

Bird underachieved the most out of any great, loosing 7 times with HCA.


Pretty much proof that Doc owned Bired in 82. You lames are just looking for reasons to insult somebody, when I already said that Bird lost in the play-offs and was shut down in 82. :rolleyes:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Let me end your pain, shagoat..

Just look at Bird's long list of playoff failures for his entire career while not really being able to weigh them out with successes.

1980: Averaged a 47 FG% in the postseason. In game 5 vs. the Sixers Bird shoots 5-19 with just 12 points and the Celtics lose while his matchup Erving averages 25 PPG.
Bird loses in 5 games depsite HCA. Celtics won 61 games in the regular season. (BTW It should be noted that unlike the Cavaliers, the Celtics definitely didn't over-achieve or were simply a regular season team, they were this good.)
A PER of 18.3.

1981: Averaged a 47 FG% in the postseason.
Plays a bad finals series where he averaged just 15 PPG on 42%. Back to back 8 point games, horrid.

1982: Averages an emberassing 18 PPG on 42%. 5 point drop off.
He averaged a pedestrian 18 PPG against the Sixers and 17 PPG in the final 2 games of the series.
Bird loses with HCA AGAIN. The Celtics won 63 games and had the #1 SRS in the league.
A 17.9 PER in the postseason.

1983: Averaged 20 PPG on 42%. Flop.
Bird and the Celtics get swept by the Bucks. Again, can easily be blamed on Bird for more subpar play.
Bird loses with HCA. This time the Celtics won 56 games and had the #2 SRS in the league.
Bird plays awful again. His PPG average drops in the playoffs.
Bird missed a game in the series but that game happened to be the closest one (Celtics lose by 4). In the 3 other games, the Celtics lose by 14.3 PPG with Bird on the court.

1984: Great playoffs.
Averaged 27-14-4 in the Finals and shot the ball at 52%.
First great playoff of his career. Celtics win the title over the Lakers. Bird FMVP.

1985: Celtics make the finals.
Bird averaged 26/9/6 on only 46% shooting. All statistics dropped.
Bird plays even worse in the finals as he averages another poor 24/9/5 on an inefficient 45%.
Celtics won 63 games and yet again lost with HCA.
The first time in Celtics history they lose the Finals with HCA.

1986: Great playoffs. His best year ever. Wins the title. 26/9/8 on 52% overall in the post-season and an amazing finals consisting of 24/10/10 on 48%.

1987: Great until the Finals. 28/10/8 through 3 Rounds but his Averages dropped to 27/10/7 after the Finals. In which he only shot 45%.
In game 6, Bird scored just 16 points on 6-16 (.375) shooting.
In the final 3 games of this series, Bird averaged just 20 PPG on .377 shooting* with 3.7 TOV.
The first time in Bird's career he's played without HCA and his team still loses.

1988: Averages 25/8/7 on 45%.
Bird shoots an awful 40-114 (.351) against the Pistons.
Has a mediocre 20.2 PER in the playoffs.
Lost with HCA while the Celtics had the #1 SRS in the league-

1989: Injured doesn't play in the postseason.

1990: Bird shoots 44% and has 3.6 TOV as the Celtics once again lose with HCA, in the 1st Round.

1991: In the first round, his team barely escapes the 41 win Pacers in 5.
41 FG% and a 15.8 PER in the playoffs. Against the Pistons Bird averages 13.4 PPG on 38%.
56 win team played with you guessed it HCA and loses with it.

1992: DNP 1st Round as the Celtics SWEEP the Pacers without him.
In round 2, his team goes 7 against the Cavs, Bird plays in 4 games and his team was 1-3 in those games. Averages a pathetic 11.3 PPG and 4.5 Reb which are 8.4 PPG and 5.2 Reb down from his regular season average. Shooting 50% and has a 16.4 PER.

In 12 Years, you get 5 Runs of under 45% and 9 runs of under 48%.

A great 4 year run, mediocrity besides that.

Bird underachieved the most out of any great, loosing 7 times with HCA.

Talk shit about jlauber yet quotes him all the time :oldlol:

Shit already been exposed but you wanna keep posting it? I can play that game too...

1980 - In 1979 that same team went 29-53 in the RS (2nd worst), with the arrival of Bird happens one of the biggest turnarounds in history, up to 61 wins (best) and reaching the ECF, pretty much the same squad and coach Fitch, Bird as a rookie leading the way, that even injured his finger on his shooting hand in the beginning of the season, making it crooked forever... Such a fail :rolleyes:

1981 - Bad Finals? So now 15.3/15.3/7.0/2.3/0.5 is bad? Lmfao. Nobody pulled a 15+/15+/7+ ever in a Finals series.
For the series only trailed Moses, one of the GOAT rebounders as a center, by 6 rebounds and playing less minutes. Pretty much shut down the player(s) he was guarding. Leading everyone in assists and steals. Yes he had a bad shooting/scoring series but was still the 3rd best scorer in the series and had no superstar level teammate, plus all the attention on him, coming outside, making terrific passes, helped Max a lot with his scoring. Decisive game 6 he put up 27/13/5 on 11/20, really clutch in the 4th. And that was a really physical series, plenty of today's superstars wouldn't handle that. Go watch it.
Lets forget what he did the previous series against the 76ers and MVP Julius Erving, though.. With Bobby and Calwdell Jones and Erving on him, he put up 26.7 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 4.6 apg on 48.6 %FG/55.4 %TS, with a terrific game 7. MVP Erving during that series: 19.9 ppg, 5.9 rpg , 4.1 apg on 43.3%FG/48.8 %TS.
They also won it all, Bird as a sophomore, leading a previously terrible team, adding Parish and cutting Cowens.
Such a failure :rolleyes:

1982 - He had a bad PS this year considering his standards, no excuses. They almost got to the Finals though.

1983 - Bird was injured, lets forget that right?! Didn't even play 1 game :banghead: Look at what the rest did without him remotely close to 100%.

1984 - One of the best PS runs ever right there. Teammates underperforming he led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, got them that ring agains eally stacked teams like the showtime Lakers with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis, Wilkes...
:bowdown:

1985 - Was having another monster year. Baldy injured his right hand in a bar fight during the PS though, but lets neglect that again?!? :facepalm Played with a injured elbow too.
If he was healthy the Celtics would most likely beat the Lakers again, they took them to 6 with an injured Bird, of course without him at 100% they couldn't do much, even so he was really good.

1986 - Amazing PS run, leading one of the goat teams. See what happens when eveything's clicking right there, imagine if he played for the Lakers since the start.

1987 - Team was filled with injuries, virtually no bench, starters had to log major minutes. At 30, Bird played 41 mpg in the RS, easily his highest, and 44 in the PS over the course of 23 games. Lakers with one of the goat teams and a relatively easy road to the Finals, Celtics faced great teams, had gruelsome series, were beat down, still took them to 6, Bird still did his thing already with back problems, McHale with a broken foot, Parish and Ainge also with some injuries. His series against the Bad Boys was simply amazing, with that famous steal also.

1988 - Similar story to 1987, Larry was having a beastly RS, after cutting some weight, but injuries took a toll, back issues and bone spurs in both heels. Never made excuses but was on his last legs in the PS, had to get surgeries right after.

After 1988 I won't say much, he was still playing on a level that the vast majority can't reach but he was a shell. After surgeries and still with major problems, couldn't practice plenty of times, plenty mobility gone, overweight. Can't judge that. He still had major impact as a shell on a team that wasn't doing much without him.

......

Every player has failures and bad games/series/playoffs, Bird's success (everything you want to consider here) greatly outweighs all of that though.

Your favorite player is Lebron right? And you wanna discuss choking? :oldlol: Don't even get me started here, I'll make you go cry to your momma.
I won't even say much, just let me post this again...

LeBron James -

RS: 27.5 / 7.2 / 6.9 / 1.7 / 0.8 on 50 / 34 / 75 (%)
PS: 27.9 / 8.4 / 6.5 / 1.7 / 0.9 on 48 / 33 / 75 (%)

Finals (not counting this year's):
22 games, 10-12
23.4 / 9.0 / 7.0 / 1.7 / 0.6 on 44 / 29 / 75 (%), 43.4 min

And Bird was playing against one of the GOAT dynasties/team, showtime Lakers with the likes of Kareem, Magic, Worthy, Wilkes, Scott, Cooper, Nixon, McAdoo, Green, Rambis... That would win vs the the Heat or any team that they beat, shit I see the 1986 Rockets with Hakeem/Sampson beating the Heat.
-->In the Playoffs, in 9 healthy/prime seasons, Bird beat 10 50+W teams, Bron didn't even reach 7 in 11 years :oldlol: Not to mention, Larry was facing GOAT teams/dynasties. Bron always with a WEAK-ASS ride to the Finals. Imagine LeBron in the 80s EC, than having to face the Lakers in the Finals if he ever got there :eek: Drop-off in stats would be ridiculous from RS to PS.
Plus LeBron didn't even start his decline yet, imagine when he'll do. Oh and Larry didn't statpad, win guaranteed he was out, unavoidable loss he was out.
Bird's sophomore Finals performance with a team that previously had one of the worst records in the league (adding Parish, removing Cowens) is better than LeBron's Finals performance in his prime (2011) after joining two top10 players in the league (one top5) :roll:

Here's one of the all-time ultimate choke series, going out like a bitch too, lmfao: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4

[MiseryCityTexas]

I guess you idiots won't bring up that time when the Bucks knocked Bird's Celtics out of the play-offs either. :oldlol:

[SHAQisGOAT]

I guess you idiots won't bring up that time when the Bucks knocked Bird's Celtics out of the play-offs either. :oldlol:

Those Bucks in full strength would've made the Finals in this era in the ECF, most likely :lol

Bird was injured though, didn't even play one game (call it being swept though :rolleyes:) and still came out to play... Again, your favorite player would've been sitting on the bench.

[ArbitraryWater]

ShaqIsGoat's Posts really made me realize how often Bird was injured and unable to perform at full strength.. damn, I might need to bump him down a few spots. Seemed like every 2 years or so "Injuries took their toll" on him..

[SHAQisGOAT]

ShaqIsGoat's Posts really made me realize how often Bird was injured and unable to perform at full strength.. damn, I might need to bump him down a few spots. Seemed like every 2 years or so "Injuries took their toll" on him..

Again, this child dodging my WHOLE post like a real bitch, your idol would be proud :oldlol:

Let me just post this again...

Every player has failures, injuries and bad games/series/playoffs, Bird's success (EVERYTHING you want to consider here) greatly outweighs all of that though, easily.

Your favorite player is Lebron right? And you wanna discuss choking? :rolleyes: :oldlol: Don't even get me started here, I'll make you go cry to your momma, boy.
I won't even say much, leave it at this, for now..

LeBron James -

RS: 27.5 / 7.2 / 6.9 / 1.7 / 0.8 on 50 / 34 / 75 (%)
PS: 27.9 / 8.4 / 6.5 / 1.7 / 0.9 on 48 / 33 / 75 (%)

Finals (not counting this year's):
22 games, 10-12
23.4 / 9.0 / 7.0 / 1.7 / 0.6 on 44 / 29 / 75 (%), 43.4 min

And Bird was playing against one of the GOAT dynasties/team, showtime Lakers with the likes of Kareem, Magic, Worthy, Wilkes, Scott, Cooper, Nixon, McAdoo, Green, Rambis... That would clearly win vs the the Heat or any team that they beat, shit I see the 1986 Rockets with Hakeem/Sampson beating the Heat.
-->In the Playoffs, in 9 healthy/prime seasons, Bird beat 10 50+W teams, Bron didn't even reach 7 in 11 years :oldlol: Not to mention, Larry was facing GOAT teams/dynasties, not to mention 60+W teams.
Bron always with a WEAK-ASS ride to the Finals, then most of the time declining when he gets there. Imagine LeBron in the 80s EC, then having to face the Lakers in the Finals if he ever got there :eek: :eek: Drop-off in stats would be ridiculous from RS to PS, shit drop-off from now to then would be ridiculous because he would be screwed in the 80s EC, period.
Plus LeBron didn't even start his decline yet, imagine when he'll do. Oh and Larry didn't statpad, win guaranteed he was out, unavoidable loss he was out.
Bird's sophomore Finals performance with a team that previously had one of the worst records in the league (adding Parish, removing Cowens) is better than LeBron's Finals performance in his prime (2011) after joining two top10 players in the league (one top5) :roll:

Here's one of the all-time ultimate choke series, going out like a bitch too, lmfao: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cbt2UXgB2M - Prime Bird would make Marion eat his word by both killing him on the court and talking more trash than anything, prime Bron folded and played like a punk... In the 80s, especially in the East all the way to the showtime Lakers in the end, dude would be ****ed up

[ArbitraryWater]

Says Bird never made Excuses, uses Bird's Injuries as Excuse...

http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/lawd.pnghttp://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/shaqreally.png

http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/yallniggastrippin.png http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/enflip4.png http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/whoa.png http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/mindblown.png

http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/SMH3.gif http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/nba-wade_amused-amused_20120520_1937568761.png http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/Xsb9NdF.png

[BoutPractice]

Bird plays even worse in the finals as he averages another poor 24/9/5
many Finals MVPs have had worse averages than that


The first time in Bird's career he's played without HCA and his team still loses.
if you fault him for losing with HCA, how can you insinuate that not having it puts him at an advantage ("still" loses)?

[ArbitraryWater]

many Finals MVPs have had worse averages than that


if you fault him for losing with HCA, how can you insinuate that not having it puts him at an advantage ("still" loses)?


I wrote that couple months back.. read it again, obviously that finals line is pretty good.. 45% is meh, but still okay.

The bottom line I don't know what you're getting it.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Says Bird never made Excuses, uses Bird's Injuries as Excuse...



Again, this child dodging my WHOLE post like a real bitch, your idol would be proud :oldlol:

Let me just post this again...

Every player has failures, injuries and bad games/series/playoffs, Bird's success (EVERYTHING you want to consider here) greatly outweighs all of that though, easily.

Your favorite player is Lebron right? And you wanna discuss choking? :rolleyes: :oldlol: Don't even get me started here, I'll make you go cry to your momma, boy.
I won't even say much, leave it at this, for now..

LeBron James -

RS: 27.5 / 7.2 / 6.9 / 1.7 / 0.8 on 50 / 34 / 75 (%)
PS: 27.9 / 8.4 / 6.5 / 1.7 / 0.9 on 48 / 33 / 75 (%)

Finals (not counting this year's):
22 games, 10-12
23.4 / 9.0 / 7.0 / 1.7 / 0.6 on 44 / 29 / 75 (%), 43.4 min

And Bird was playing against one of the GOAT dynasties/team, showtime Lakers with the likes of Kareem, Magic, Worthy, Wilkes, Scott, Cooper, Nixon, McAdoo, Green, Rambis... That would clearly win vs the the Heat or any team that they beat, shit I see the 1986 Rockets with Hakeem/Sampson beating the Heat.
-->In the Playoffs, in 9 healthy/prime seasons, Bird beat 10 50+W teams, Bron didn't even reach 7 in 11 years :oldlol: Not to mention, Larry was facing GOAT teams/dynasties, not to mention 60+W teams.
Bron always with a WEAK-ASS ride to the Finals, then most of the time declining when he gets there. Imagine LeBron in the 80s EC, then having to face the Lakers in the Finals if he ever got there :eek: :eek: Drop-off in stats would be ridiculous from RS to PS, shit drop-off from now to then would be ridiculous because he would be screwed in the 80s EC, period.
Plus LeBron didn't even start his decline yet, imagine when he'll do. Oh and Larry didn't statpad, win guaranteed he was out, unavoidable loss he was out.
Bird's sophomore Finals performance with a team that previously had one of the worst records in the league (adding Parish, removing Cowens) is better than LeBron's Finals performance in his prime (2011) after joining two top10 players in the league (one top5) :roll:

Here's one of the all-time ultimate choke series, going out like a bitch too, lmfao: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cbt2UXgB2M - Prime Bird would make Marion eat his word by both killing him on the court and talking more trash than anything, prime Bron folded and played like a punk... In the 80s, especially in the East all the way to the showtime Lakers in the end, dude would be ****ed up



http://uncommongeek.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/the-matrix-bullet-time-gif.gif

[KevinNYC]

Says Bird never made Excuses, uses Bird's Injuries as Excuse...

http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/lawd.pnghttp://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/shaqreally.png

http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/yallniggastrippin.png http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/enflip4.png http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/whoa.png http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/mindblown.png

http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/SMH3.gif http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/nba-wade_amused-amused_20120520_1937568761.png http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/Xsb9NdF.png
Perhaps he and Larry Bird are two different people.

[ArbitraryWater]

Perhaps he and Larry Bird are two different people.

http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/tocry.png http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/dark/whew.png

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bird plays even worse in the finals as he averages another poor 24/9/5 on an inefficient 45%.



LeBron's Finals averages (not counting this year's):
22 games, 10W-12L
23.4 / 9.0 / 7.0 / 1.7 / 0.6 on 44 / 29 / 75 (%), 43.4 min

If that was poor by Bird (on an injured hand/elbow against one of the most stacked teams ever) for that one Finals, what to say about Bron's career??? :oldlol:

btw
Bird's Finals averages:
31 games, 16W-15L
23.1 / 11.7 / 6.0 / 2.0 / 0.8 on 46 / 42 / 87 (%), 42.8 min

:rolleyes: :roll:

Why you gotta make it too easy, son? Then I gotta own you.....

[moe94]

http://uncommongeek.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/the-matrix-bullet-time-gif.gif
:oldlol:

[BoutPractice]

I wrote that couple months back.. read it again, obviously that finals line is pretty good.. 45% is meh, but still okay.

The bottom line I don't know what you're getting it.
I'm pointing out an incoherence in your reasoning (but maybe I didn't understand it properly).

First you say that he's overrated due to losing so often with HCA.
This implies that HCA should make your job easier (which is indeed normally the case).

Then you fault him for "still losing" the time he did not have HCA, as if he should be expected to perform better without HCA... which directly contradicts your premise for pointing out that he lost so often "with HCA" in the first place.

Unless I'm reading it wrong?

Bottom line is, this is just one pretty revealing example of your bias: you're looking for everything that can discredit Bird, including reasons that contradict one another.

[LAZERUSS]

Just look at Bird's long list of playoff failures for his entire career while not really being able to weigh them out with successes.

1980: Averaged a 47 FG% in the postseason. In game 5 vs. the Sixers Bird shoots 5-19 with just 12 points and the Celtics lose while his matchup Erving averages 25 PPG.
Bird loses in 5 games depsite HCA. Celtics won 61 games in the regular season. (BTW It should be noted that unlike the Cavaliers, the Celtics definitely didn't over-achieve or were simply a regular season team, they were this good.)
A PER of 18.3.

1981: Averaged a 47 FG% in the postseason.
Plays a bad finals series where he averaged just 15 PPG on 42%. Back to back 8 point games, horrid.

1982: Averages an emberassing 18 PPG on 42%. 5 point drop off.
He averaged a pedestrian 18 PPG against the Sixers and 17 PPG in the final 2 games of the series.
Bird loses with HCA AGAIN. The Celtics won 63 games and had the #1 SRS in the league.
A 17.9 PER in the postseason.

1983: Averaged 20 PPG on 42%. Flop.
Bird and the Celtics get swept by the Bucks. Again, can easily be blamed on Bird for more subpar play.
Bird loses with HCA. This time the Celtics won 56 games and had the #2 SRS in the league.
Bird plays awful again. His PPG average drops in the playoffs.
Bird missed a game in the series but that game happened to be the closest one (Celtics lose by 4). In the 3 other games, the Celtics lose by 14.3 PPG with Bird on the court.

1984: Great playoffs.
Averaged 27-14-4 in the Finals and shot the ball at 52%.
First great playoff of his career. Celtics win the title over the Lakers. Bird FMVP.

1985: Celtics make the finals.
Bird averaged 26/9/6 on only 46% shooting. All statistics dropped.
Bird plays even worse in the finals as he averages another poor 24/9/5 on an inefficient 45%.
Celtics won 63 games and yet again lost with HCA.
The first time in Celtics history they lose the Finals with HCA.

1986: Great playoffs. His best year ever. Wins the title. 26/9/8 on 52% overall in the post-season and an amazing finals consisting of 24/10/10 on 48%.

1987: Great until the Finals. 28/10/8 through 3 Rounds but his Averages dropped to 27/10/7 after the Finals. In which he only shot 45%.
In game 6, Bird scored just 16 points on 6-16 (.375) shooting.
In the final 3 games of this series, Bird averaged just 20 PPG on .377 shooting* with 3.7 TOV.
The first time in Bird's career he's played without HCA and his team still loses.

1988: Averages 25/8/7 on 45%.
Bird shoots an awful 40-114 (.351) against the Pistons.
Has a mediocre 20.2 PER in the playoffs.
Lost with HCA while the Celtics had the #1 SRS in the league-

1989: Injured doesn't play in the postseason.

1990: Bird shoots 44% and has 3.6 TOV as the Celtics once again lose with HCA, in the 1st Round.

1991: In the first round, his team barely escapes the 41 win Pacers in 5.
41 FG% and a 15.8 PER in the playoffs. Against the Pistons Bird averages 13.4 PPG on 38%.
56 win team played with you guessed it HCA and loses with it.

1992: DNP 1st Round as the Celtics SWEEP the Pacers without him.
In round 2, his team goes 7 against the Cavs, Bird plays in 4 games and his team was 1-3 in those games. Averages a pathetic 11.3 PPG and 4.5 Reb which are 8.4 PPG and 5.2 Reb down from his regular season average. Shooting 50% and has a 16.4 PER.

In 12 Years, you get 5 Runs of under 45% and 9 runs of under 48%.

A great 4 year run, mediocrity besides that.

Bird underachieved the most out of any great, loosing 7 times with HCA.

This Underachiever should be better than one of the greatest overachievers ever?

Carrying the Cavaliers to the Finals and two Nr.1 Records? LOL

I have seen this somewhere else before...but in any case...

:applause: :applause: :applause:

It needed to be said.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm pointing out an incoherence in your reasoning (but maybe I didn't understand it properly).

First you say that he's overrated due to losing so often with HCA.
This implies that HCA should make your job easier (which is indeed normally the case).

Then you fault him for "still losing" the time he did not have HCA, as if he should be expected to perform better without HCA... which directly contradicts your premise for pointing out that he lost so often "with HCA" in the first place.

Unless I'm reading it wrong?

Bottom line is, this is just one pretty revealing example of your bias: you're looking for everything that can discredit Bird, including reasons that contradict one another.

Oh, yea the "still" part makes no sense I guess..


---


ShaqGoat, let me eeaazeee yo pain.. Your posts definitely have made an Impact on me.

Bird's Injuries "took their toll" every 2 years or so on him.. I have corrected my list. Bumped Larry down a few spots.. cant have an all time great not being able to perform at full strength all the time... thanks :cheers:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Oh, yea the "still" part makes no sense I guess..


---


ShaqGoat, let me eeaazeee yo pain.. Your posts definitely have made an Impact on me.

Bird's Injuries "took their toll" every 2 years or so on him.. I have corrected my list. Bumped Larry down a few spots.. cant have an all time great not being able to perform at full strength all the time... thanks :cheers:

Few days ago every Bron stan, including yourself, were saying shit like "these ignorant assholes think LeBron could've continue on playing?? One can't simply play in those conditions, it takes nothing away from him, he deserves the excuse!!! **** y'all!!!"......
Now, I mention Bird's injuries in 3 different post-seasons (not considering after 1989) out of 9 prime/healthy years (which is more than plenty) where he mostly was a beast all-around, mostly rising in the PS, mostly elevating his game when it mattered, winning a whole lot in arguably the greatest era/conference, when he never even made excuses or publicized any of that.... and you go ahead and say some shit like that?? :rolleyes: :facepalm

:cheers: I guess, keep doing your (ignorant) thing, son... :oldlol:

Let me eaaazeee yo pain... I'll stop schooling you for now..

[BoutPractice]

cant have an all time great not being able to perform at full strength all the time... thanks :cheers:
If you're going to fault Larry Bird for being injured (ie a situation where his body, which he can't really control, is being affected rather than his game) in critical playoff moments... then what do you think about this?


http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/LBJ-cramps-619-306x346-265x300.jpg

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, Lebron, at age 29, has ALREADY surpassed Bird in virtually any criteria (except rings...and before he hangs them up, and perhaps even this season, that will most certainly change.)

[ArbitraryWater]

If you're going to fault Larry Bird for being injured (ie a situation where his body, which he can't really control, is being affected rather than his game) in critical playoff moments... then what do you think about this?


http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/LBJ-cramps-619-306x346-265x300.jpg

? What do I think about it? I won't use it as an excuse, that's for sure... LeBron's been healthy his entire career.

And we all know that dude is just making excuses for Larry, now get off my nuts.. I have bumped Bird down for being injured all the damn time, what more do you want?

[KOBE143]

Magic >>> Bird aka poor mans Scalabrine

He's better than Bran tho..

[StephHamann]

Magic >>> Bird

.

in getting aids?

[GimmeThat]

Magic >>> Bird aka poor mans Scalabrine

He's better than Bran tho..


There were no reasons the 80s Lakers should have lost a final series.

ladies and gentleman

let us welcome Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson.

[LeBird]

I have seen this somewhere else before...

Yeh, your other alias jlauber.

And what are you doing talking shit here? There are too many threads of people taking a dump on Wilt for you to be here. Quick, go!

[LAZERUSS]

Yeh, your other alias jlauber.

And what are you doing talking shit here? There are too many threads of people taking a dump on Wilt for you to be here. Quick, go!

jlauber didn't make it either.

Colts18 did and on another forum.

But yes, everything about it was right on.

[97 bulls]

Unfortunately, Bird and Celtics didn't have their dynasty in the 90s - the weakest era in the last 30-40 years - like your Bulls. They had to do it in the toughest. :lol



And each time Magic had the far better team. Swap those teams, NCAA and NBA, and Bird never loses to Magic.
The Celtics had two 50 win teams in 90 and 91. Hell they couldn't even beat the 45 win Knicks to get out of the first round. Even though, once again, they went into a series with homecourt advantage. Then they lost to the Pistons in 91 who in turn were swept by the Bulls. And guess what????? They had homecourt advantage again.

The Bulls ended all three great 80s teams in 91. They beat the Pistons who beat the Celtics. Then beat the Lakers.

Dont ever go into any thread making the accusation that the Bulls couldnt win in the 80s. Your boys weren't even competitive againt the so so teams of the early 90s.

[Rocketswin2013]

I see the light now. I'm taking Wilt over Bird all-time.


Wilt didn't lose 650,000 times with HCA. :applause:

[mr4speed]

We've gone from Maxwell won the Finals MVP to Maxwell bailed out Bird? Pathetic. :facepalm

This is stupid message board inherited wisdom and can only be posted if you know nothing about that series. They both had a couple of games where they didn't score well.

Game 1 (http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1981.htm) Bird clearly outplays Maxwell
Bird 18-21-9
Maxwell 10-9-5
Celtics Win by 3.

Game 2 Bird clearly outplays Maxwell
Bird 19-21-3 also 5 steals
Maxwell 6-4-2
Celtics Lose by 2.

Game 3 One of Bird's poor shooting games, but nice rebound and assists numbers, this will be the pattern for the next three games
Bird 8-13-10 also 5 steals
Maxwell 19-10-0
Both also had 2 blocks

Was Bird outplayed by Maxwell? Debatable?
Was he bailed out by Maxwell? Absolutely not. The Celtics won by 23. Their defense was killer and they had their fast break rolling, 6 score in double figures.

Game 4 One of Bird's poor shooting games, again nice rebound and assist numbers. Nice game by Maxwell
Bird 8-12-12
Maxwell 24-14-1
Celtics lose by 5

Game 5 Maxwell's best game.
Bird 12-12-8
Maxwell 28-15-3
Again was Bird bailed out? No.
Celtics won by 29. Another fast break fest.

Game 6 Bird clearly outplays Maxwell and by consensus put the game away in the fourth quarter after Houston got as close as 3 points.
Bird 26-13-5
Maxwell 19-5-6

Celtics win by 11

In a 6 game series Bird led his team (not just Maxwell) in
scoring 3 times
rebounding 4 times
assists 4 times

Maxwell led the team in
scoring 3 times
rebounding 2 times
assists 0 times

Remember this is the days before the term "triple-double" was used and box scores looked like this
http://001-jk-files.s3.amazonaws.com/images/boxscores/198105050BOS.jpg
That's from game 1 where Bird had a fairly monster first game, but you wouldn't know it from that boxscore. Bird shot poorly in three games, but even in those games he was still making an impact everywhere else.
Nice post - I had not seen each game collectively listed. I believe for the Finals 7 reporters were usually selected to vote for the FMVP. If there was a group that would not be friendly to Bird at this time it would be reporters. Bird shunned them, Bird was not a good interview. Hey reporters are human, but they missed this one.

[LAZERUSS]

And one more time...


The reality was, when Bird faced elite defensive teams in the post-season (or elite defenders like Michael Cooper), his numbers declined considerably.

BUT, MJ's numbers, particularly his FG%'s, dropped dramatically against the Bad Boys in his first three playoff series against them. He had post-season series against the Knicks of .400 FG%. He had a post-season series against the Heat of 38%. And in his last three Finals, he shot .455, .427, and yes, .415.

Shaq's numbers dropped off the cliff in four of his five playoff series against the Spurs.

And Kareem very seldom faced elite defenders in his entire post-season career. BUT, a PEAK Kareem, in his three greatest statistical seasons of his career, faced two of the three greatest defensive centers in NBA history, and in a span of five straight series. Guess what? A PEAK Kareem, who in that same span averaged 32.6 ppg on .563 shooting against the NBA.... 26.8 ppg, on get this... a .456 FG%. And then, against Wilt, in Chamberlain's very last season, and covering SIX H2H games, he shot... .450 (while Wilt shot .737 against him.)

That's why I can only chuckle when these idiots claim that Chamberlain "declined" in his post-season play. The reality was, a prime Wilt, from '60 thru '69, faced Russell and Thurmond in 61 of his 98 playoff games, or nearly TWO-THIRDS of them.

Had Bird battled Cooper, or the Bad Boys, in 60% of his post-season games; or MJ faced the peak Bad Boys in 60% of his post-season games; or Shaq battled the best of the Spurs in 60% of his playoff games; or Kareem faced a GOAT defensive center in 60% of his playoff games...does ANYONE honestly believe that their numbers would have even come within the other side of the ocean, as compared to their regular season numbers? C'mon.

[knicksman]

bird is on the same breed as the statpadders like bran and robertson who cant win without a stacked team. His 1st ring was won with him as a pippen like player and his 2 rings was won with the help of the GOAT team:lol . Statpadders like him get exposed coz they refuse team ball.

[mr4speed]

bird is on the same breed as the statpadders like bran and robertson who cant win without a stacked team. His 1st ring was won with him as a pippen like player and his 2 rings was won with the help of the GOAT team:lol . Statpadders like him get exposed coz they refuse team ball.

You just contradicted yourself in your own analysis. You say Bird refused to play team ball and that is exactly what he did in 81 when he had 2 low scoring games but found other avenues to help his team with rebounding and assists. You mistakenly see this as a "Pippen" like player (when did Pippen ever average 15.3 rebounds and 7 assists in a series?) and when did Pippen ever dominate a 4th quarter like Bird did in 81 in the deciding game?. Then in 84 LA has the better team, but Bird isn't at all responsible for the 84 ring, his team is? Look at what Bird did and the other Celtics in 84. Bird outplayed all of his teammates! Then in 86 he again has a great series, the best Celtic by far and he is now a statpadder? You can't have it both ways, or to be blunt - nothing that Bird did would ever please you.

[knicksman]

You just contradicted yourself in your own analysis. You say Bird refused to play team ball and that is exactly what he did in 81 when he had 2 low scoring games but found other avenues to help his team with rebounding and assists. You mistakenly see this as a "Pippen" like player (when did Pippen ever average 15.3 rebounds and 7 assists in a series?) and when did Pippen ever dominate a 4th quarter like Bird did in 81 in the deciding game?. Then in 84 LA has the better team, but Bird isn't at all responsible for the 84 ring, his team is? Look at what Bird did and the other Celtics in 84. Bird outplayed all of his teammates! Then in 86 he again has a great series, the best Celtic by far and he is now a statpadder? You can't have it both ways, or to be blunt - nothing that Bird did would ever please you.

im not including 81 coz I know hes still a role player at that time. But once he became a statpadder, he has underachieved.

[1987_Lakers]

im not including 81 coz I know hes still a role player at that time. But once he became a statpadder, he has underachieved.

A role player finishes 2nd in the MVP voting and outplays the MVP in the ECF?:confusedshrug:

[mr4speed]

im not including 81 coz I know hes still a role player at that time. But once he became a statpadder, he has underachieved.


Reread your own post. You included 81 because that was the first ring. Role player? LOL - what were you watching? Statpadder? - ridiculous. Underachiever? - nonsense.

[stalkerforlife]

This thread backfired bad on the OP.

Bird > Bron

[SHAQisGOAT]

And one more time...

The reality was, when Bird faced elite defensive teams in the post-season (or elite defenders like Michael Cooper), his numbers declined considerably.



And one more time...


->1981 ECF vs 76ers with the 2nd ranked defense in the league
guarded by:
Bobby Jones; all-time great defender, all-defensive 1st, 6'9, lanky, great athlete
Caldwell Jones; all-defensive 1st, legit 7', really good athlete and mobile, good shot-blocker
Julius Erving; athletic freak, great team-defender, good enough on-ball
(Dawkins in the paint)

Series Average: 26.7 / 13.4 / 4.6 apg on 48.6% FG / 55.4% TS


->1984 ECSF vs Knicks, #1 defense that year

Series average: 30.4 / 10.6 / 7.1 on 58.5% FG / 64.9% TS


->1984 Finals vs the mighty showtime Lakers and "your boy" Cooper
guarded by:
Michael Cooper; all-time great defender, all-defensive 1st, great athlete
James Worthy; 6'9 and really athletic, strong, good defender
(Kareem in the paint)

Series Average: 27.4 / 14.0 / 3.6 apg on 48.4% FG / 59.5% TS


->1986 ECF vs Bucks, the 2nd ranked defense in the league and probably the best defensive franchise throughout the 80s, overall
guarded by:
Paul Pressey; all-defensive 1st, 6'6 athletic player
Sindey Moncrief; all-time great defender, 6'4, strong, great athletic, all-defensive 1st
Terry Cummings; 6'9, big, built like stone, really athletic
(Lister in the paint)

Series Average: 25.3 / 9.5 / 8 on 55 % FG / 66.7% TS


->1987 ECF vs Bad Boys
guarded by:
Dennis Rodman; all-time great defender, already really good, big and strong
Adrian Dantley; never known for his defense but was trying much more, really strong so caused trouble in the post
John Salley; really athletic 6'11 player, great shotblocker
Rick Mahorn; they even put Rick on Bird to rough him up and use strength in the post, didn't really work, Larry knew what to do
(Laimbeer, Mahorn in the paint)

Series average: 27.1 / 10.4 / 7.6 on 49% FG / 57.2% TS

......

Declined? :rolleyes: That's called 'stepping his game up', considerably.
That's against great defenders (plenty of all-time greats), great athletes, size, paint protection, great team defense, tough rules......

Do I need to do the same for Shaq, Kareem or MJ? Stop, desperately, trying everything to prop-up your boy Wilt, it ain't working, it doesn't even work like that....







This thread backfired bad on the OP.

Bird > Bron

Pretty much

[Derka]

Pretty awesome backfire :cheers:

[stalkerforlife]

ShaqisGoat, you have been epic in this thread. Thanks for handling this thread with facts and class.

[ArbitraryWater]

ShaqisGoat started posting..

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Abandon_183a9d_2290882.gif

[dreamwarrior]

As a whole Bird performed offensively slightly worse (pp36 + assists36 + winshares = 75% of his reg season) in the post season than in the regular season. So did the following players as of 2013: Lebron James (90%), Magic Johnson (86%), Jerry West (94%), Wilt (62%), Shaq (84%) and Kareem (80%). The only star players I found to have over performed in the post season for their entire careers were: MJ (103%), Durant (105%), Hakeem (117%), Miller (105%), Dwight (103%), Ray Allen (112%), Havlicek (126%), Russell (142%), Isiah (163%), Walton (135%), Worthy (140%), and Horry (106%).

[1987_Lakers]

ShaqisGoat, you have been epic in this thread. Thanks for handling this thread with facts and class.

Indeed. Dude destroyed these trolls.:applause:

[stalkerforlife]

ShaqisGoat started posting..

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Abandon_183a9d_2290882.gif

That would be a wise decision for you.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Pretty awesome backfire :cheers:


ShaqisGoat, you have been epic in this thread. Thanks for handling this thread with facts and class.


Indeed. Dude destroyed these trolls.:applause:

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[LAZERUSS]

And one more time...


->1981 ECF vs 76ers with the 2nd ranked defense in the league
guarded by:
Bobby Jones; all-time great defender, all-defensive 1st, 6'9, lanky, great athlete
Caldwell Jones; all-defensive 1st, legit 7', really good athlete and mobile, good shot-blocker
Julius Erving; athletic freak, great team-defender, good enough on-ball
(Dawkins in the paint)

Series Average: 26.7 / 13.4 / 4.6 apg on 48.6% FG / 55.4% TS


->1984 ECSF vs Knicks, #1 defense that year

Series average: 30.4 / 10.6 / 7.1 on 58.5% FG / 64.9% TS


->1984 Finals vs the mighty showtime Lakers and "your boy" Cooper
guarded by:
Michael Cooper; all-time great defender, all-defensive 1st, great athlete
James Worthy; 6'9 and really athletic, strong, good defender
(Kareem in the paint)

Series Average: 27.4 / 14.0 / 3.6 apg on 48.4% FG / 59.5% TS


->1986 ECF vs Bucks, the 2nd ranked defense in the league and probably the best defensive franchise throughout the 80s, overall
guarded by:
Paul Pressey; all-defensive 1st, 6'6 athletic player
Sindey Moncrief; all-time great defender, 6'4, strong, great athletic, all-defensive 1st
Terry Cummings; 6'9, big, built like stone, really athletic
(Lister in the paint)

Series Average: 25.3 / 9.5 / 8 on 55 % FG / 66.7% TS


->1987 ECF vs Bad Boys
guarded by:
Dennis Rodman; all-time great defender, already really good, big and strong
Adrian Dantley; never known for his defense but was trying much more, really strong so caused trouble in the post
John Salley; really athletic 6'11 player, great shotblocker
Rick Mahorn; they even put Rick on Bird to rough him up and use strength in the post, didn't really work, Larry knew what to do
(Laimbeer, Mahorn in the paint)

Series average: 27.1 / 10.4 / 7.6 on 49% FG / 57.2% TS

......

Declined? :rolleyes: That's called 'stepping his game up', considerably.
That's against great defenders (plenty of all-time greats), great athletes, size, paint protection, great team defense, tough rules......

Do I need to do the same for Shaq, Kareem or MJ? Stop, desperately, trying everything to prop-up your boy Wilt, it ain't working, it doesn't even work like that....








Pretty much

In Bird's three regular seasons, in years in which he faced the Lakers (and Cooper) in the Finals... 27.0 ppg on a .513 FG%. In those three Finals... 25.2 ppg on a .460 FG%.

In Bird's regular season in '87-88, he averaged 29.9 ppg on a .527 FG%. In the '88 ECF's, and against the "Bad Boys"... 19.8 ppg on a .351 FG%. BTW, Magic then averaged 22 ppg on a .550 FG% against those same Pistons in the Finals.

If that is not a considered a MAJOR decline, then I certainly don't know what is.

BUT again, in his defense, those were great defensive teams and defenders. Just like MJ declining horribly in his first three series against the Bad Boys; or Shaq dropping like lead balloon in four of his five series against the Spurs in the early 00's; or KAJ's horrific decline against Wilt and Nate in his FIVE playoff series against them from '71 and '73...that is what elite defenses and defenders do.

And again...Wilt faced the EQUALS (if not MORESO...since it wasn't just Russell defending him, but the entire Celtics teams)...in 61 of his 98 playoff games in his prime from '60 thru '69.

Had those guys faced those same examples I gave you... in over 60% of their playoff games...their playoff numbers (and team success) would have fallen off the cliff.

Just reality my friend.

[Rocketswin2013]

This thread backfired bad on the OP.

Bird > Bron
No. Please do not get me started in this thread. Shaqisgoat is regurgitating the same single series in Bird's career. I have already said Bird had JUST two platoff runs in his ENTIRE CAREER where he performed to a "GOAT level standard" OR to his OWN STANDARD.


In the other 5 or so years, Shaqisgoat cried in this thread with excuses about Bird's injuries. Like I have said, I couldn't give a shit LESS about excuses.

And fakkits continue to use Bird's entire playoff career in comparison to his regular seaosn career(which still regressed by 25% as an OP above said :lol )

Bird had TWO LONG stretches in the playoffs of great play. He had horrible SHORT outs in early rounds and in the middle of the playoff rounds. It is deceptive to use his entire career stats. Especially considering he had a short-lived peak in the first place. But other than that. This thread means little to me.

[1987_Lakers]

No. Please do not get me started in this thread. Shaqisgoat is regurgitating the same single series in Bird's career. I have already said Bird had JUST two series in his ENTIRE CAREER where he performed to a "GOAT level standard" OR to his OWN STANDARD.


In the other 5 or so years, Shaqisgoat cried in this thread with excuses about Bird's injuries. Like I have said, I couldn't give a shit LESS about excuses.

And fakkits continue to use Bird's entire playoff career in comparison to his regular seaosn career(which still regressed by 25% as an OP above said :lol )

Bird had TWO LONG stretches in the playoffs of great play. He had horrible SHORT outs in early rounds and in the middle of the playoff rounds. It is deceptive to use his entire career stats. Especially considering he had a short-lived peak in the first place. But other than that. This thread means little to me.

You got owned, admit it. Best thing to do is stop posting in this thread and just move on before you embarrass yourself some more.

[Rocketswin2013]

You got owned, admit it. Best thing to do is stop posting in this thread and just move on before you embarrass yourself some more.
I'll go look at where I "got owned"...Fakkit.

[knicksman]

Reread your own post. You included 81 because that was the first ring. Role player? LOL - what were you watching? Statpadder? - ridiculous. Underachiever? - nonsense.

I mean in 81 he wasnt statpadding. Hes a 2nd option. But in his later years, despite the increase in stats, his team wins didnt improve which shows that hes increased in stats are just statpadding. And once the playoffs start, his inflated stats get exposed. But thats the life of statpadders. They refuse to play teamball for stats and so are easily defended. Theres a reason why robertson was a loser and lebron needed to cheat in order to not be exposed.

[1987_Lakers]

u mad:oldlol:

[Rocketswin2013]

BTW, Lebron, at age 29, has ALREADY surpassed Bird in virtually any criteria (except rings...and before he hangs them up, and perhaps even this season, that will most certainly change.)
Nah forget all that obvious stuff.

Bird > LeBron

[Rocketswin2013]

Again, this child dodging my WHOLE post like a real bitch, your idol would be proud

Let me just post this again...

Every player has failures, injuries and bad games/series/playoffs, Bird's success (EVERYTHING you want to consider here) greatly outweighs all of that though, easily.

Your favorite player is Lebron right? And you wanna discuss choking? Don't even get me started here, I'll make you go cry to your momma, boy.
I won't even say much, leave it at this, for now..

LeBron James -

RS: 27.5 / 7.2 / 6.9 / 1.7 / 0.8 on 50 / 34 / 75 (%)
PS: 27.9 / 8.4 / 6.5 / 1.7 / 0.9 on 48 / 33 / 75 (%)

Finals (not counting this year's):
22 games, 10-12
23.4 / 9.0 / 7.0 / 1.7 / 0.6 on 44 / 29 / 75 (%), 43.4 min

And Bird was playing against one of the GOAT dynasties/team, showtime Lakers with the likes of Kareem, Magic, Worthy, Wilkes, Scott, Cooper, Nixon, McAdoo, Green, Rambis... That would clearly win vs the the Heat or any team that they beat, shit I see the 1986 Rockets with Hakeem/Sampson beating the Heat.
-->In the Playoffs, in 9 healthy/prime seasons, Bird beat 10 50+W teams, Bron didn't even reach 7 in 11 years Not to mention, Larry was facing GOAT teams/dynasties, not to mention 60+W teams.
Bron always with a WEAK-ASS ride to the Finals, then most of the time declining when he gets there. Imagine LeBron in the 80s EC, then having to face the Lakers in the Finals if he ever got there Drop-off in stats would be ridiculous from RS to PS, shit drop-off from now to then would be ridiculous because he would be screwed in the 80s EC, period.
Plus LeBron didn't even start his decline yet, imagine when he'll do. Oh and Larry didn't statpad, win guaranteed he was out, unavoidable loss he was out.
Bird's sophomore Finals performance with a team that previously had one of the worst records in the league (adding Parish, removing Cowens) is better than LeBron's Finals performance in his prime (2011) after joining two top10 players in the league (one top5)

Here's one of the all-time ultimate choke series, going out like a bitch too, lmfao: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cbt2UXgB2M - Prime Bird would make Marion eat his word by both killing him on the court and talking more trash than anything, prime Bron folded and played like a punk... In the 80s, especially in the East all the way to the showtime Lakers in the end, dude would be ****ed up

Is this it? He isn't even talking about actual production. He's having a mini-meltdown and using personal attacks and other emotional bitch shit. :lol

And he compared entire career statlines(which LeBron has over Bird EASY) in comparison to them....:facepalm....

I already said using entire career lines is deceptive because when Bird lost, he lost earlier and when he won, he won with really long stretches so the amount of games he choked in didn't put in a good enough dent in his averages to see the true chokery......:facepalm

[1987_Lakers]

I mean in 81 he wasnt statpadding. Hes a 2nd option. But in his later years, despite the increase in stats, his team wins didnt improve which shows that hes increased in stats are just statpadding. And once the playoffs start, his inflated stats get exposed. But thats the life of statpadders. They refuse to play teamball for stats and so are easily defended. Theres a reason why robertson was a loser and lebron needed to cheat in order to not be exposed.

And this idiot thinks Bird was a second option in '81 despite finishing 2nd in the MVP voting and outplaying and outscoring MVP Julius Erving in the ECF.

To top it off he calls Bird a stat padder.:oldlol:

This guy is either trolling or a retard.

[knicksman]

And this idiot thinks Bird was a second option in '81 despite finishing 2nd in the MVP voting and outplaying and outscoring MVP Julius Erving in the ECF.

To top it off he calls Bird a stat padder.:oldlol:

This guy is either trolling or a retard.

of course statpadders are overrated by idiots like you. Theres a reason why wilt has 4 rings with just 1 ring as the man. Same with iverson, robertson, rose who got mvps without rings as the man. Same with bran who wouldve 5 mvps by now without a ring had he not cheated. But continue to be fooled with these statpadders my friend. It just making you look like a joke

[fpliii]

of course statpadders are overrated by idiots like you. Theres a reason why wilt has 4 rings with just 1 ring as the man. Same with iverson, robertson, rose who got mvps without rings as the man. Same with bran who wouldve 5 mvps by now without a ring had he not cheated. But continue to be fooled with these statpadders my friend. It just making you look like a joke
What's your top 15 all time bro?

[1987_Lakers]

of course statpadders are overrated by idiots like you. Theres a reason why wilt has 4 rings with just 1 ring as the man. Same with iverson, robertson, rose who got mvps without rings as the man. Same with bran who wouldve 5 mvps by now without a ring had he not cheated. But continue to be fooled with these statpadders my friend. It just making you look like a joke

Wilt has 4 rings?:oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt has 4 rings?:oldlol:

Came within an EYELASH of SIX (losing FOUR game seven's to the eventual champions by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points), and then his under-dog team lost yet another game seven in '70.

Could EASILY have had SEVEN. And as Wooden commented, had Wilt had Russell's supporting casts, and Auerbach, and it would have been WILT with all those rings.

[Graviton]

I don't know why Bird is ranked so high(most have him in Top 5-8). Obviously he was good enough and watching all the interviews by all the All-Time Greats they consider him a legend. But strictly taking into account resume and accomplishments, I don't see how he is above Kobe, Shaq, Duncan or even Lebron.

3 MVPs, 3 Rings, 2 FMVPS, 9xAll NBA 1st Team, 12x All-Star. 23/10/6 on 47% playoff averages. Obviously his back injury held him back from accomplishing even more. But when you rank careers his falls short of most in Top 10.

I mean it all looks great, but I wouldn't put him above Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Duncan or Russell. To me he seems to be in Lebron/Wilt/Kobe/Hakeem tier, elite players that won couple rings and were dominant but either didn't win enough or surpass expectations in the playoffs to be put above the other guys.

Kareem/Duncan/Shaq/Russell all won 4+ rings, were dominant big men that affected the game on both ends, had long primes and legendary peaks. Magic/Jordan both 5+ rings, one of a kind perimeter players that again affected the game in multiple ways. Years of consistent individual greatness in the regular season along with greatest playoff performances.

Idk how anyone objectively puts Bird above those 6 guys, he has no argument over any of them. 7-10 is where Bird should be with Kobe, Lebron and Wilt/Hakeem.

[KevinNYC]

Nice post - I had not seen each game collectively listed. I believe for the Finals 7 reporters were usually selected to vote for the FMVP. If there was a group that would not be friendly to Bird at this time it would be reporters. Bird shunned them, Bird was not a good interview. Hey reporters are human, but they missed this one.
box scores here
http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1981.htm

I don't think Bird's demeanor had anything to do with personally, I think they just looked at the game differently.

An 18-21-9 game is pretty rare and hasn't happened in the finals since, but if you don't have the term "triple double" to reference the concept of a great all-around performance, you're not going to value it as much.

[Rocketswin2013]

And people probably think I'm a Bird hater or I don't even think he was great But I have him top 7 at worst. Well actually 4-7. I just think current LeBron is better. And this was really bait for Shaqisgoat but I didn't think it would go this far with all these posters..

Annoying really.

[LAZERUSS]

And people probably think I'm a Bird hater or I don't even think he was great But I have him top 7 at worst. Well actually 4-7. I just think current LeBron is better. And this was really bait for Shaqisgoat but I didn't think it would go this far..

Annoying really.

He's not top-7. More like borderline top-10, and yes, Lebron has already surpassed him.