Looking back the trade the Pelicans made for Holiday is even more ew.

[Jameerthefear]

Now that the Sixers are also going to receive a #10 along with their #3 it looks even worse. If Noel pans out then...

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Good luck getting points in the paint in a fee years against noel and davis... what could have been.

[Dr.J4ever]

The first great move of the Hinckie era. We are excited on the Sixers direction.

[el gringos]

Not too early to make that call. Noel was so great this year. And then adding a Doug mc or stauskas.


Really the only way it even still leans toward the spiders is because they hit so well w mcw. Had he not been better than expected theyd be in a tough spot in trying to find a pg all in the name of having a 200 pound big man coming off a knee injury.


Still to be determined who wins long term but it's a lot closer of a trade than most here think

[HylianNightmare]

Whatd holiday do this year?

[DMAVS41]

Looking back?

It was an awful trade from the jump. Been saying it all year.

The Paul trade and then this shit are two of the worst moves ever.

They essentially got negative value for Paul. They ended up getting Gordon/Aminu/Rivers...Gordon is a net positive player, but his contract makes him toxic, Rivers is a bum, and Aminu is nothing special. Stern not only ****ed over the Lakers, but they ****ed over the Pelicans by making them take back a player they didn't need or want.

Then the Pelicans go all in for no reason trying to make the playoffs in one of the best conferences ever...and will be for at least 2 more years. They have ruined the formative years of Davis's career in which he should have been playing with young talent that was going to be around forever while building up draft picks like the Thunder did.

Instead they jumped the gun and went and overpaid for Holiday, Evans, and Gordon....

Good thing for Pelicans fans is that Davis is going to be absolutely great and that when he's really a true beast...all these shit contracts will be coming off the books.

[Johnny Jones]

Holiday is so underrated. Dude a top 3 defender, top 5 rebounder, and a top 7 distributor at the point. Just because of his inefficient scoring he is hated on, yet he had a 52% TS (and it was increasing ) before a terrible 4 game stretch that killed it (he was battleing shin splits in those games, which led to the stress fracture).

Holiday and Evans is no doubt one of the most underrated backcourts in the L too. Their defense is crazy when they play together, and on offense Evans can handle the ball while Holiday cuts/spots up for 3.

[Johnny Jones]

Looking back?

It was an awful trade from the jump. Been saying it all year.

The Paul trade and then this shit are two of the worst moves ever.

They essentially got negative value for Paul. They ended up getting Gordon/Aminu/Rivers...Gordon is a net positive player, but his contract makes him toxic, Rivers is a bum, and Aminu is nothing special. Stern not only ****ed over the Lakers, but they ****ed over the Pelicans by making them take back a player they didn't need or want.

Then the Pelicans go all in for no reason trying to make the playoffs in one of the best conferences ever...and will be for at least 2 more years. They have ruined the formative years of Davis's career in which he should have been playing with young talent that was going to be around forever while building up draft picks like the Thunder did.

Instead they jumped the gun and went and overpaid for Holiday, Evans, and Gordon....

Good thing for Pelicans fans is that Davis is going to be absolutely great and that when he's really a true beast...all these shit contracts will be coming off the books.:oldlol: :oldlol:

You have to understand context. Of course in hindsight you can say Gordon/Rivers/Aminu wasn't worth it, but at the time it looked like Gordon was going to be a great player. It looked like some decent pieces for a guy who was basically forcing himself out.

Also, Rivers is not a bum. Dude is good defender and he can penetrate the defense with his quick first step. He also became a great spot up shooter from 3 this year (47%..)

I'm not going to justify Gordon's contract. But here is an exert from a great article about Reke on TBW:


Good Tyreke (the one that comes off the bench with Ryan Anderson or starts with Anthony Davis) is not just good, he is great. Here is the list of NBA players in history to put up 20 points, 5 rebounds, and 6 assists on 50% TS%:

The Tyreke that plays with Ryno/AD is a top 30 player in the NBA. The Tyreke that plays most of his minutes with the Steamer is one of the worst. Monty is too blame for Reke's poor season because any decent coach would have realized that Reke needs a big who can hit a jumpshot at a decent clip.

[DMAVS41]

:oldlol: :oldlol:

You have to understand context. Of course in hindsight you can say Gordon/Rivers/Aminu wasn't worth it, but at the time it looked like Gordon was going to be a great player. It looked like some decent pieces for a guy who was basically forcing himself out.

Also, Rivers is not a bum. Dude is good defender and he can penetrate the defense with his quick first step. He also became a great spot up shooter from 3 this year (47%..)

I'm not going to justify Gordon's contract. But here is an exert from a great article about Reke on TBW:



The Tyreke that plays with Ryno/AD is a top 30 player in the NBA. The Tyreke that plays most of his minutes with the Steamer is one of the worst. Monty is too blame for Reke's poor season because any decent coach would have realized that Reke needs a big who can hit a jumpshot at a decent clip.

Dont' need hindsight for me. I said it at the time.

Gordon was never worth it. I said it the day of the trade...he was the worst type of player to get. Have to overpay him to stay...can't let him walk because then you essentially traded Paul for Aminu/Rivers.

It's pure luck that Gordon sat out all year to get the number 1 pick that turned into Davis. That is the other part of things people aren't talking about...if Gordon is healthy they Pelicans win more and might not have gotten the first pick.

It was a terrible trade at the time...:lol

[Haymaker]

Has Noel played a single game yet? :biggums:

[Johnny Jones]

Dont' need hindsight for me. I said it at the time.

Gordon was never worth it. I said it the day of the trade...he was the worst type of player to get. Have to overpay him to stay...can't let him walk because then you essentially traded Paul for Aminu/Rivers.

It's pure luck that Gordon sat out all year to get the number 1 pick that turned into Davis. That is the other part of things people aren't talking about...if Gordon is healthy they Pelicans win more and might not have gotten the first pick.

It was a terrible trade at the time...:lol
Not even going to respond to this. :facepalm

[DMAVS41]

Not even going to respond to this. :facepalm

Because it kills you.

Only morons thought eric gordon was going to be a great player...dude is kevin martin.

The Pelicans got literally pennies on the dollar for Paul.

I'll say it again...Eric Gordon is worthless of you...was then and is now. He's not remotely a max level player...but if you didn't pay him that...he's leaving...and you are left with Aminu/Rivers for Paul.

And you can't sell your fans on that.

And then, to make matters worse...you go all in trying to make the playoffs for no reason.

You trade away two top 10 draft picks for another overpaid guard in Holiday? And then sign Evans to a bad contract as well?

All with the hope of making the playoffs and maybe winning 1 series in 3 years...maybe?

It's inept team management and you it makes even less sense because the contracts are all up in a 2 to 3 years now and the team is going to look totally different going forward when Davis is in his true peak/prime.


Of course you aren't responding...you have nothing to say.

[Johnny Jones]

Because it kills you.

Only morons thought eric gordon was going to be a great player...dude is kevin martin.

The Pelicans got literally pennies on the dollar for Paul.

I'll say it again...Eric Gordon is worthless of you...was then and is now. He's not remotely a max level player...but if you didn't pay him that...he's leaving...and you are left with Aminu/Rivers for Paul.

And you can't sell your fans on that.

And then, to make matters worse...you go all in trying to make the playoffs for no reason.

You trade away two top 10 draft picks for another overpaid guard in Holiday? And then sign Evans to a bad contract as well?

All with the hope of making the playoffs and maybe winning 1 series in 3 years...maybe?

It's inept team management and you it makes even less sense because the contracts are all up in a 2 to 3 years now and the team is going to look totally different going forward when Davis is in his true peak/prime.


Of course you aren't responding...you have nothing to say.Holy ****. This isn't even remotely true. Eric Gordon at the time of the trade was scoring 22 PPG at 22 y/o. He was solid defesively as well. He was thought of as a young star. And I never said it was a good trade. I said at the time, it was decent pieces for a guy was forcing himself out.

And I love you how you completely ignore the part about Evans. I'm not going to explain Holiday because I did that with my first post in this thread. You are a simple minded bigot.

[DMAVS41]

Holy ****. This isn't even remotely true. Eric Gordon at the time of the trade was scoring 22 PPG at 22 y/o. He was solid defesively as well. He was thought of as a young star. And I never said it was a good trade. I said at the time, it was decent pieces for a guy was forcing himself out.

And I love you how you completely ignore the part about Evans. I'm not going to explain Holiday because I did that with my first post in this thread. You are a simple minded bigot.

hahaaha...bigot?

dude...you don't get it. it's not just about gordon...it's about the circumstances of the team.

and no, anyone that knew their shit knew Gordon had not done enough to earn the contract that was coming. the pelicans ****ed themselves with that trade.

Gordon's best year;

22/3/4 56.6% TS

Kevin Martin from 08 through 11;

23/4/3 59.8% TS

Again...he's Kevin Martin at his peak so far

It was a horrendous trade at the time. It's not my fault you or others think Gordon was worthy of the max that the Pelicans would end up having to pay.

Let me ask you this...would you rather have paid Gordon what you did...or let him walk for nothing?


Sorry, Holiday is not worth the 6th and 10th picks...LOL...just no. Especially, again, in the circumstances of a team like the Pelicans that should not be trying to push for the playoffs. They should have adopted the OKC path and loaded up with Nole and another high draft picks this year...and saved the cap space to make moves when they are ready.

That is why Evans was such a shit signing....what is the point even if he's good? So you guys can have the 9th best record in the conference?

It's not even that the Pelicans are bad...if they were in the East I would support these moves. But they aren't in the East. So I ask again...what was the goal of the Gordon/Evans/Holiday experiment? Is it to make the playoffs? Is it to try and make noise in the playoffs?

What's the ceiling of this team before all the contracts are up?

You telling me you wouldn't have rather taken Noel...gotten a top 7 or so pick this year. Moved Gordon even if you only get 50 cents on the dollar...and build around Davis/Noel/Top 7 pick and other young players while retaining tons of cap flexibility to make major moves starting next year?

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

And like I said, Gordon missing the entire year was luck. If he plays...he adds wins and they might not get Davis. So that part of the bottoming out doesn't even help you...it wasn't by design.

The first trade was so much better. Dragic, Martin, and a first round pick. Then they would have gotten Scola and Odom...who they had plans to flip for young assets/picks. Did you notice that Scola just fetched Plumlee and Green from the Pacers? Did you notice that the Mavs gave up a pick for Odom? These guys were still assets....your GM even came out and said he was planning to move them and already had a deal in place with, I think it was Brooklyn, to move Odom.

That initial trade could have netted them something like Dragic, Martin, 2 first round picks, a couple young players, and a 2nd round pick.

Now, if Martin sits out all year like Gordon did (again, pure luck here) then they wouldn't have been any better and would have had roughly the same chance to get Davis.

You'd have more picks, you would have been worse the last 2 years so you'd get higher picks. You'd have more assets and a far brighter future with players on the roster that will actually be on the roster long term.

[GOBB]

Well I can defend DMAVS being against this deal the day it was made. I remember arguing with him about the deal not being bad for the Pelicans. Pretty much what he has been typing in here and other threads recently that I've come across? He said back then. You probably could find the thread if you did a search it as well.

Hopefully Sixers dont screw up the #10 pick. I would like a legitimate NBA starter there.

[Johnny Jones]

hahaaha...bigot?

dude...you don't get it. it's not just about gordon...it's about the circumstances of the team.

and no, anyone that knew their shit knew Gordon had not done enough to earn the contract that was coming. the pelicans ****ed themselves with that trade.

Gordon's best year;

22/3/4 56.6% TS

Kevin Martin from 08 through 11;

23/4/3 59.8% TS

Again...he's Kevin Martin at his peak so far

It was a horrendous trade at the time. It's not my fault you or others think Gordon was worthy of the max that the Pelicans would end up having to pay.

Let me ask you this...would you rather have paid Gordon what you did...or let him walk for nothing?


Sorry, Holiday is not worth the 6th and 10th picks...LOL...just no. Especially, again, in the circumstances of a team like the Pelicans that should not be trying to push for the playoffs. They should have adopted the OKC path and loaded up with Nole and another high draft picks this year...and saved the cap space to make moves when they are ready.

That is why Evans was such a shit signing....what is the point even if he's good? So you guys can have the 9th best record in the conference?

It's not even that the Pelicans are bad...if they were in the East I would support these moves. But they aren't in the East. So I ask again...what was the goal of the Gordon/Evans/Holiday experiment? Is it to make the playoffs? Is it to try and make noise in the playoffs?

What's the ceiling of this team before all the contracts are up?

You telling me you wouldn't have rather taken Noel...gotten a top 7 or so pick this year. Moved Gordon even if you only get 50 cents on the dollar...and build around Davis/Noel/Top 7 pick and other young players while retaining tons of cap flexibility to make major moves starting next year?

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

And like I said, Gordon missing the entire year was luck. If he plays...he adds wins and they might not get Davis. So that part of the bottoming out doesn't even help you...it wasn't by design.

The first trade was so much better. Dragic, Martin, and a first round pick. Then they would have gotten Scola and Odom...who they had plans to flip for young assets/picks. Did you notice that Scola just fetched Plumlee and Green from the Pacers? Did you notice that the Mavs gave up a pick for Odom? These guys were still assets....your GM even came out and said he was planning to move them and already had a deal in place with, I think it was Brooklyn, to move Odom.

That initial trade could have netted them something like Dragic, Martin, 2 first round picks, a couple young players, and a 2nd round pick.

Now, if Martin sits out all year like Gordon did (again, pure luck here) then they wouldn't have been any better and would have had roughly the same chance to get Davis.

You'd have more picks, you would have been worse the last 2 years so you'd get higher picks. You'd have more assets and a far brighter future with players on the roster that will actually be on the roster long term.
I never said Holiday was worth the 6th and 10th picks too, I was respoinding to you saying he was overpaid.

And :wtf: at the Gordon part. You're comparing a player who was 22 y/o to a peak Kevin Martin :wtf:

Eric Gordon's career has been ruined by injuries. He will never have a chance to reach his peak :wtf:

[DMAVS41]

I never said Holiday was worth the 6th and 10th picks too, I was respoinding to you saying he was overpaid.

And :wtf: at the Gordon part. You're comparing a player who was 22 y/o to a peak Kevin Martin :wtf:

Eric Gordon's career has been ruined by injuries. He will never have a chance to reach his peak :wtf:

He is overpaid...he is not worth 11 million a year for 4 years. He's not that good.

It's about Gordon not proving enough to warrant the contract. I'm saying there wasn't enough upside to warrant giving him that huge contract after he sat out all of 2012...after missing key time in 10 and 11.

I don't really care to argue how good Gordon was/is/could be...it's about him not being worth a 15 million dollar a year deal on a team like the Pelicans trying to rebuild. It hamstrings you for a long time. He's on the ****ing books through 2016.

So not only is he hurting you on the cap and on the court...he's preventing you from building a team the right way.

That is why the trade was so bad. The Pelicans secretly would have rather had Gordon walk and get nothing for him in return than sign him to that deal...but they had to sign him because the fans would have revolted if you ended up getting only Aminu/Rivers for Chris Paul.

[Droid101]

Looking back?

It was an awful trade from the jump. Been saying it all year.

The Paul trade and then this shit are two of the worst moves ever.

They essentially got negative value for Paul. They ended up getting Gordon/Aminu/Rivers...Gordon is a net positive player, but his contract makes him toxic, Rivers is a bum, and Aminu is nothing special. Stern not only ****ed over the Lakers, but they ****ed over the Pelicans by making them take back a player they didn't need or want.

Then the Pelicans go all in for no reason trying to make the playoffs in one of the best conferences ever...and will be for at least 2 more years. They have ruined the formative years of Davis's career in which he should have been playing with young talent that was going to be around forever while building up draft picks like the Thunder did.

Instead they jumped the gun and went and overpaid for Holiday, Evans, and Gordon....

Good thing for Pelicans fans is that Davis is going to be absolutely great and that when he's really a true beast...all these shit contracts will be coming off the books.
It could have been a Noel/Davis frontcourt with a top 5 pick this year (Exum?).

****ing A what a cluster****.

[DMAVS41]

It could have been a Noel/Davis frontcourt with a top 5 pick this year (Exum?).

****ing A what a cluster****.

Yep....Noel/Davis and likely a top 5 pick in a draft with a ton of quality players.

They jumped the gun. Like I said at the time and now...they should have followed the OKC path.

They didn't...and unless something changes...they will pay the price for that for the next 2 years at least.

[SwishSquared]

I agree with DMAVS41 here- I thought the Jrue trade was bad from the start, matching the Gordon max offer was bad (but as has been said, almost necessary), and signing Tyreke after that trade went down was really bad too.

Also, by "overpaying" for Jrue, I believe DMAVS41 meant that they gave up a potential solid rim protector and a nice pick in a deep draft. Philly signed him to that deal, but I think it was telling that Hinkie flipped him just a year after that deal was given to him. Also, he makes the same as Curry, so you could say he's overpaid.

This team is lucky that it should have cap space in 3 years so that it can start over. However, going all-in too quickly is not smart. Remember how the Cavs had little cap space during LBJ's last few years? This team will essentially be capped out until Jrue & Tyreke expire (Davis will sign a max extension next summer). I don't see them making the playoffs next year (even if some Spurs retire, Phoenix will make the playoffs if healthy) and they maybe could make the playoffs the following year if Memphis' core gets too old.

This team simply should have kept Nerlens, tanked for Exum (Vazquez was pretty decent last year offensively), and not made any major moves last summer. I don't think happens, but if they can ship off either Tyreke (was solid after Jrue went down) or Jrue for Monroe in a S&T, then they'd at least have a great big man rotation. Gordon is likely un-moveable now and probably should come off the bench if they bring back all 3 guards.

I wasn't on ISH when all these moves happened, but New Orleans' front office has not done a great job the past few years, aside from drafting Davis and getting Anderson.

[DMAVS41]

I agree with DMAVS41 here- I thought the Jrue trade was bad from the start, matching the Gordon max offer was bad (but as has been said, almost necessary), and signing Tyreke after that trade went down was really bad too.

Also, by "overpaying" for Jrue, I believe DMAVS41 meant that they gave up a potential solid rim protector and a nice pick in a deep draft. Philly signed him to that deal, but I think it was telling that Hinkie flipped him just a year after that deal was given to him. Also, he makes the same as Curry, so you could say he's overpaid.

This team is lucky that it should have cap space in 3 years so that it can start over. However, going all-in too quickly is not smart. Remember how the Cavs had little cap space during LBJ's last few years? This team will essentially be capped out until Jrue & Tyreke expire (Davis will sign a max extension next summer). I don't see them making the playoffs next year (even if some Spurs retire, Phoenix will make the playoffs if healthy) and they maybe could make the playoffs the following year if Memphis' core gets too old.

This team simply should have kept Nerlens, tanked for Exum (Vazquez was pretty decent last year offensively), and not made any major moves last summer. I don't think happens, but if they can ship off either Tyreke (was solid after Jrue went down) or Jrue for Monroe in a S&T, then they'd at least have a great big man rotation. Gordon is likely un-moveable now and probably should come off the bench if they bring back all 3 guards.

I wasn't on ISH when all these moves happened, but New Orleans' front office has not done a great job the past few years, aside from drafting Davis and getting Anderson.


bingo.

in fairness though...Stern ****ed them with that veto and the Paul to the Clippers trade.

that is what caused all of this really. you get stuck in this CBA with having to max a player that isn't worth half of the contract and you are screwed. So Stern really screwed them over and they were straight up forced to sign Gordon because you simply can't go to your fans and say you got Aminu and the pick that would become Rivers for Chris Paul. Fans would revolt!

But they still could have played it right. They still could have kept Noel and been in the top 5 or so this year with tons of cap space going forward.

I still think there would be some stupid team willing to take Gordon.

[notatop29pg]

The problem is you're still judging the trade on the sum of its parts, and what it 'potentially' could be.

Noel hasn't done anything... and how far did super amazing MCW get them this season? First year or not, your talking as though the Sixes made the playoffs while still getting the Pels pick. Now THAT would justify a thread like this.

As it stands it's 0-0.

Yes I know the sixes will get (insert Lebron Jordan 1.0 here) in the Draft this year... but it means nothing until they do something with it.

Last time I checked playoff seedings weren't determined by whose roster had the most lottery picks on it.

[MC Gusto]

Whatd holiday do this year?
Played like 30 games and then missed the rest of the season.