Kobe myth he was great for 17 years

[rlsmooth775]

I was shocked when I saw Kobe fans claiming he was this great player for his entire career. Truth is he was only a superstar from 2001- 2013 12 year span which is still great but not the exaggerated 17 years

[oh the horror]

Yeah in his early years he was extremely green. He had talent. Everyone saw it. But his game was wild most of the time

[IncarceratedBob]

I would say he became a superstar only when Shaq left

[BlackVVaves]

I would say he became a superstar only when Shaq left

I would say, you are either mentally handicapped or didn't watch basketball in 2001.

Or hey, maybe both. Probably both.

[sportjames23]

I would say he became a superstar only when Shaq left


See Kobe's 2000, 2001 and 2002 playoffs. Particularly vs the Spurs in 2001 and 2002.

[20Four]

I would say he became a superstar only when Shaq left
Dont listen to this foo....talks jiggerish most of the time

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

I would say he became a superstar only when Shaq left
I guess you missed out his performances at the 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2004 NBA Playoffs.

[tmacattack33]

I'm not sure he was a super-star (top 5) in 2012, the year before he went to Germany or wherever it was for that medical procedure that some MLB players had good results with.

2011 is borderline too.

He bounced back strong in 2013 and it seemed like the Germany operation helped him.


Also, 2004 is up for grabs. That was the year right after Shaq left and he didn't play well as a first option right away.

[lilgodfather1]

Depends on the definition I suppose. I'd say he was great for about 7 years myself, and very good for almost the rest of his career. He had raw talent in his younger days, but in never collaborated until he was in his 3rd year imo.

[Prometheus]

Kobe had his coming out party in the 2000 playoffs, and was great from then until the achilles injury

[Lebronxrings]

more like 2 years, 09 and 10.

[gts]

I would say he became a superstar only when Shaq left

Obviously being incarcerated has screwed up your thinking...

[gts]

more like 2 years, 09 and 10.

this is why we need the negative reps

[JohnMax]

2000-01 was the first year he averaged over 25 ppg and took over 20 shots per game. link (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html#per_game::none)

[BlkMambaGOAT]

2000-01 was the first year he averaged over 25 ppg and took over 20 shots per game. link (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html#per_game::none)

Does what ever it takes to win:pimp: Not protect his FG% like some other fggt:coleman:

[DMAVS41]

Kobe was irrelevant in 97 and 98

Good in 99

Really good in 00

Great from 01 through 13 overall

Irrelevant in 14

[NumberSix]

Kobe was irrelevant in 97 and 98

Good in 99

Really good in 00

Great from 01 through 13 overall

Irrelevant in 14
Great is a stretch for the 2012-2013 season. To have a team that stacked and get a 7 seed? That's not so great. Was a liability on D the entire season.

[DMAVS41]

Great is a stretch for the 2012-2013 season. To have a team that stacked and get a 7 seed? That's not so great. Was a liability on D the entire season.

You could dial it back down really good for 12 and 13...

[Droid101]

this is why we need the negative reps
:lol

[Heavincent]

Great is a stretch for the 2012-2013 season. To have a team that stacked and get a 7 seed? That's not so great. Was a liability on D the entire season.

lol what? That team was trash and Kobe was pretty much the only reason they made it. If you ever watched a Lakers game, the other team would almost always go on a run with Kobe on the bench. Dwight was very underwhelming, Pau was out of sorts because of D'Antoni and Dwight, Nash was injured for a while. They had one superstar and no depth. How the hell is that stacked?

[Genaro]

When people talk about 17 years, they talk mostly about mileage.
But still, how many guys can claim they were superstars for 12 years in a row?
Few.

[BlkMambaGOAT]

Great is a stretch for the 2012-2013 season. To have a team that stacked and get a 7 seed? That's not so great.

:biggums: Having Dwight Coward and an old-as-fck Nash is not the definition of stack.

[Cali Syndicate]

what I know for sure is that I'mgonna miss the fcker when he retires. and I never liked the Lakers, ever.

[Jameerthefear]

I agree OP. Kobe's "legacy" is a myth in itself.

[BlkMambaGOAT]

I agree OP. Kobe's "legacy" is a myth in itself.

:lol



NO

[BlackVVaves]

Great is a stretch for the 2012-2013 season. To have a team that stacked and get a 7 seed? That's not so great. Was a liability on D the entire season.

Yeah, but he still put up 27, 6, and 6. Consider him top 5, top 6 last year. Defensive liability, offensively impressive.

Was like Harden this year, but not as embarrassing defensively considering he's in his mid 30s and Harden is 24.

Also, not sure if stacked is the operative word. The starting lineup, where all the perceived talent laid, played less than 20 games together. That means, for 75% of the season, someone was missing between Howard, Pau, Kobe, and Nash.

And for as foolish as the Lakers looked, they still had one of the 5 best winning percentages in the second half of the season. Which was largely because of Kobe's production.

Just adding some context. That team wasn't going anywhere thanks to their joke of a defense, and underachieved like a bitch, but Kobe was pretty stellar (offensively) considering his age; without him, they would have been a Dwight-led lottery team.

Kobe wasn't great in 2011. Nor 2004. 2012 was questionable too; shooting 43%? Yuck. But, two of those seasons he was hobbled, and the other he was going to court before games. So there's that.

Think great is a reasonable term to describe his season last year. Not dominant like Bron or KD, but great is appropriate.

[NumberSix]

BBQ tacos bitch.

[BlkMambaGOAT]

Yeah, but he still put up 27, 6, and 6. Consider him top 5, top 6 last year. Defensive liability, offensively impressive.

Was like Harden this year, but not as embarrassing defensively considering he's in his mid 30s and Harden is 24.

Also, not sure if stacked is the operative word. The starting lineup, where all the perceived talent laid, played less than 20 games together. That means, for 75% of the season, someone was missing between Howard, Pau, Kobe, and Nash.

And for as foolish as the Lakers looked, they still had one of the 5 best winning percentages in the second half of the season. Which was largely because of Kobe's production.

Just adding some context. That team wasn't going anywhere thanks to their joke of a defense, and underachieved like a bitch, but Kobe was pretty stellar (offensively) considering his age; without him, they would have been a Dwight-led lottery team.

Kobe wasn't great in 2011. Nor 2004. 2012 was questionable too; shooting 43%? Yuck. But, two of those seasons he was hobbled, and the other he was going to court before games. So there's that.

Think great is a reasonable term to describe his season last year. Not dominant like Bron or KD, but great is appropriate.


Can't believe you had the nerve to call KD and Lebron dominant last year.

2014 KD and 2013 Kobe in the second half of the season are dominant. 2013 KD and Lebron are just efficient.:coleman:

[BlackVVaves]

Can't believe you had the nerve to call KD and Lebron dominant last year.

2014 KD and 2013 Kobe in the second half of the season are dominant. 2013 KD and Lebron are just efficient.:coleman:

Nah, they were pretty dominant. When you score 28 ppg on 50/40/90, you're pretty dominant. When you are the best player on a team that wins 27 games straight, you're pretty dominant.

Kobe was great last year, but he wasn't dominant. Hasn't been for a while.

[dc_chilling]

Can't believe you had the nerve to call KD and Lebron dominant last year.

2014 KD and 2013 Kobe in the second half of the season are dominant. 2013 KD and Lebron are just efficient.:coleman:

Lol. KD and Lebron had two of the best seasons in the past 20 years. You could argue Lebron's was one of the best in the history of the league.

I mean 27,8,7 on 57% shooting with a PER of 31.6 and TS% of 64% is about as good as it can get for a perimeter player. Not to mention he won the MVP, chip, and finals MVP. If that isn't dominance, we have a different definition of the word.

[Lebronxrings]

Great is a stretch for the 2012-2013 season. To have a team that stacked and get a 7 seed? That's not so great. Was a liability on D the entire season.
agreed. Remember when the laker fans were saying how they would win the championship that year?It was championship or bust for them.

[BigBoss]

He was a superstar last season too op. First team all nba and carried his team into the playoffs in a strong west with injuries/coaching change.

[KingBeasley08]

I agree OP. Kobe's "legacy" is a myth in itself.
:applause:

[KirbyPls]

Lol. KD and Lebron had two of the best seasons in the past 20 years. You could argue Lebron's was one of the best in the history of the league.

I mean 27,8,7 on 57% shooting with a PER of 31.6 and TS% of 64% is about as good as it can get for a perimeter player. Not to mention he won the MVP, chip, and finals MVP. If that isn't dominance, we have a different definition of the word.

Agree. Don't waste your time arguing with the Kobetard alt.

Kobe was an amazing player from 2001 through 2013. I hate him, but he is an all-time great, and I just think others are a little better.

[The Iron Sheik]

he's been a great player since '99

before that he was just a good, young player with loads of talent.

he didn't really break out until the '01 playoffs but he was an elite player before then.

[ArbitraryWater]

I got Kobe's Prime = 2000-2013. 14 Seasons.

Dont forget though, he had some shit years in there with 2004 and 2005... 2000 and 2011, 2012, 2013 were meh

[kennethgriffin]

kobes 1998-99 season and 1999-00 season are greatly underrated

the only reason he averaged 15ppg in 1998 was because he played with 3 other allstars.

1997-98 per 36min was 21.4ppg ( he was a legit allstar at 19 ) it was just a stacked team. he made the team like joe johnson made this years. lowered stats but obvious skill

then in 1998-99 he averaged 0.00000000000000001 under 20.0 PPG ( confusing some into thinking he wasnt a big time scorer )

again ( PLAYING WITH 2-3 OTHER STARS )

then in 1999-00 he averaged 23ppg ( AGAIN PLAYING WITH SHAQ GETTING 30PPG and rice chipping in with 16

if it wasnt for all the sharing kobe would have had 25ppg from his 2nd season in the nba

right when they got rid of rice he sky rocketed up to 28ppg... wonder why? just in 1 year.



fact is... kobe was a starting allstar by his 2nd year at 19

he was an all nba 2nd team/all 1st team defense at age 21

and he was arguably the most talented player in the nba by age 22 ( 2001 )



1998 - Starting allstar - 20.4 ppg per 36min
1999 - ( no allstar game ) - ALL NBA, 20ppg
2000 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 23ppg
2001 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 28ppg
2002 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 27ppg
2003 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 30ppg
2004 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 24ppg
2005 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ( injured ) 27ppg
2006 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 35ppg
2007 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 32ppg
2008 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 28ppg
2009 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 27ppg
2010 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 27ppg
2011 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 25ppg
2012 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 28ppg
2013 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 27ppg

i count 16 starting allstar level
15 with a legit superstar level
14 with a legit top 5
13 with top 1-3
BOLD = arguably best player

[T_L_P]

kobes 1998-99 season and 1999-00 season are greatly underrated

the only reason he averaged 15ppg in 1998 was because he played with 3 other allstars.

1997-98 per 36min was 21.4ppg ( he was a legit allstar at 19 ) it was just a stacked team. he made the team like joe johnson made this years. lowered stats but obvious skill

then in 1998-99 he averaged 0.00000000000000001 under 20.0 PPG ( confusing some into thinking he wasnt a big time scorer )

again ( PLAYING WITH 2-3 OTHER STARS )

then in 1999-00 he averaged 23ppg ( AGAIN PLAYING WITH SHAQ GETTING 30PPG and rice chipping in with 16

if it wasnt for all the sharing kobe would have had 25ppg from his 2nd season in the nba

right when they got rid of rice he sky rocketed up to 28ppg... wonder why? just in 1 year.



fact is... kobe was a starting allstar by his 2nd year at 19

he was an all nba 2nd team/all 1st team defense at age 21

and he was arguably the most talented player in the nba by age 22 ( 2001 )



1998 - Starting allstar - 20.4 ppg per 36min
1999 - ( no allstar game ) - ALL NBA, 20ppg
2000 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 23ppg
2001 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 28ppg
2002 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 27ppg
2003 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 30ppg
2004 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 24ppg
2005 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ( injured ) 27ppg
2006 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 35ppg
2007 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 32ppg
2008 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 28ppg
2009 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 27ppg
2010 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 27ppg
2011 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 25ppg
2012 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 28ppg
2013 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 27ppg

i count 16 starting allstar level
15 with a legit superstar level
14 with a legit top 5
13 with top 1-3
BOLD = arguably best player

Best player in the league in '03? He wasn't even necessarily better than Shaq that season, let alone Duncan or Garnett (who lead their inferior teams to better records and in Duncan's case the title).

[Droid101]

I agree OP. Kobe's "legacy" is a myth in itself.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TnBamom0qwk/U1mUnIRLqSI/AAAAAAAAoOQ/asOhGYiIjUs/w434-h504-no/kobe_trophies_web.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

Best player in the league in '03? He wasn't even necessarily better than Shaq that season, let alone Duncan or Garnett (who lead their inferior teams to better records and in Duncan's case the title).


9 straight 40 point games
40ppg+ for 2 entire months
nba record 12 threes in one game
dropped 50 on jordan in basically one half of basketball


he was the most talented in the game by far. duncan had the better team and was a more valued position. thats about it

it was his peak athletics/skills combo season. he had his top windmil hops left and added the 40 foot bombs.

2003 is arguably his most dangerous year. if he was put in todays nba he'd average 40 for god sake

[kennethgriffin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKdfkCg6UDU&list=PL349865072386C799

kobe bryant 9 straight 40 point game play list

enjoy

best in the game

[T_L_P]

9 straight 40 point games
40ppg+ for 2 entire months
nba record 12 threes in one game
dropped 50 on jordan in basically one half of basketball


he was the most talented in the game by far. duncan had the better team and was a more valued position. thats about it

it was his peak athletics/skills combo season. he had his top windmil hops left and added the 40 foot bombs.

2003 is arguably his most dangerous year. if he was put in todays nba he'd average 40 for god sake

You're a complete idiot. If he really was the best player in the league, how come he couldn't win games without Shaq? You're acting like Duncan had a lot more help, which isn't true. The Lakers were still favourites before the season began. Star power is what leads to success, and the Shaq/Kobe combo was still the best two-way punch in the league. Until Duncan thoroughly outplayed them. Garnett had a far worse team than Kobe, so how is it he got more wins out of them?

[Droid101]

You're a complete idiot. If he really was the best player in the league, how come he couldn't win games without Shaq?
Because after Shaq, his team consisted of Derek Fisher (10 ppg), Robert Horry (6ppg), Rick Fox (9ppg), Devean George (7ppg), Samaki Walker :roll: (4ppg), and Mark Madsen :oldlol: (3ppg). Should I keep going?

For reference, KG had three players better than ALL THESE LISTED. Wally (18ppg), Troy Hudson (14ppg) and Rasho N (11ppg).

[kennethgriffin]

You're a complete idiot. If he really was the best player in the league, how come he couldn't win games without Shaq? You're acting like Duncan had a lot more help, which isn't true. Star power is what leads to success, and the Shaq/Kobe combo was still the best two-way punch in the league. Until Duncan thoroughly outplayed them. Garnett had a far worse team than Kobe, so how is it he got more wins out of them?


samaki walker
soumalla samake
kareem rush
jannero pargo
tracy murray
stanislav medvidenko
derek fisher ( before he was even halfway good )
rick fox ( after his prime )
devean george
robert horry ( the year he shot 2 for 40 from three in the playoffs )


and mark madson


that was the team minus shaq

thats why you F*CKING MORON

not everyone has deep entirely well rounded teams their whole life.

kobe and shaq in 2003 was a 2 man team. even more so than the years they won it all

[Mrofir]

I don't want to get into the weeds of this discussion here and try to pinpoint this year or that year.

But, I recently watched a replay of the 01 finals vs Indiana, and as well as Kobe played, it's clear that he became a much better and more complete player, decision maker, and leader later in his career.

His absolute peak, the time that cemented his legacy, was the 2 championships with Gasol -- it's stating the obvious yes, but I find it interesting to think that without those years and rings, Kobe would be regarded around the same level as an Iverson or Drexler.

Definitely worth looking back at that footage.

[rlsmooth775]

Most of Kobe's high scoring games are below 50% shooting

[Rocketswin2013]

Definitely overrated.

HOFer none the less. I'm taking Duncan,Lebron, Jordan,Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Hakeem and probably Oscar over him with no second thoughts though. After that, he is placed all-time where he is placed all-time.

[Droid101]

The simple fact is Kobe is not winning a ring with that Spurs cast, and he's not taking Garnett's team to 50 wins. Probably not, because KG had a team built around a dominant PF and the Spurs had a team built around a dominant PF. If you just trade one of those guys for Kobe, it wouldn't have worked out. So, your statement is flawed to begin with.


Do you seriously think Kobe was the best player in 2003? Not from a talent level, from an actual production standpoint?
I never stated anything of the sort. I don't really know who I'd pick. I'd definitely need to go back and watch a bunch of games to refresh my memory.

But I do know that without Shaq and Kobe, that Laker team would win 3 games out of 82 tops. So just because Kobe couldn't "lead his team to more wins!!" without Shaq, that means **** all.

[kennethgriffin]

I don't want to get into the weeds of this discussion here and try to pinpoint this year or that year.

But, I recently watched a replay of the 01 finals vs Indiana, and as well as Kobe played, it's clear that he became a much better and more complete player, decision maker, and leader later in his career.

His absolute peak, the time that cemented his legacy, was the 2 championships with Gasol -- it's stating the obvious yes, but I find it interesting to think that without those years and rings, Kobe would be regarded around the same level as an Iverson or Drexler.

Definitely worth looking back at that footage.


ofcourse kobe got infinitely better as the years went on

and 2000 was the year they faced indiana btw

but watch 2001 in the western 3 rounds and see just where he was at by age 22


22 year old kobe was so dominant it wasnt even funny. he shat all over the nba.. and considering the western 2nd and 3rd rounds were more important than the actual finals.. i'd say kobe was the real finals mvp

[kennethgriffin]

You can if you want. The simple fact is Kobe is not winning a ring with that Spurs cast, and he's not taking Garnett's team to 50 wins. When you have Shaq and Kobe (apparently two of the top 5 players, according to kenneth) on the same team, the 7th seed is an utter disaster.

Do you seriously think Kobe was the best player in 2003? Not from a talent level, from an actual production standpoint?


heres a simple fact... YOU'RE A F*CKING CLUELESS TWIT

the fact that you think either duncan or kobe can step into a role that is 4 positions off from what the team is built around is a valid argument makes you look even more re*ARDED than i originally thought


if a team is built around a big man.. ofcourse kobe cant step in and fill duncan or garnetts shoes


just like duncan couldnt step into a team that is based on a ball dominant guard with no other playmakers or slashers and expect him to succeed


you f*cking disgrace of a message board f*ggot

im out.. why am i doing this to myself

:biggums:

[kennethgriffin]

T_L_P LOGIC = "DERP! i bet BARRY BONDS COULDNT PITCH A NO HITTER ?!?! " >..... "THAT MEANS HES WORSE THAN ROGER CLEMONS ALL TIME ! LOL:"

[BlkMambaGOAT]

kobes 1998-99 season and 1999-00 season are greatly underrated

the only reason he averaged 15ppg in 1998 was because he played with 3 other allstars.

1997-98 per 36min was 21.4ppg ( he was a legit allstar at 19 ) it was just a stacked team. he made the team like joe johnson made this years. lowered stats but obvious skill

then in 1998-99 he averaged 0.00000000000000001 under 20.0 PPG ( confusing some into thinking he wasnt a big time scorer )

again ( PLAYING WITH 2-3 OTHER STARS )

then in 1999-00 he averaged 23ppg ( AGAIN PLAYING WITH SHAQ GETTING 30PPG and rice chipping in with 16

if it wasnt for all the sharing kobe would have had 25ppg from his 2nd season in the nba

right when they got rid of rice he sky rocketed up to 28ppg... wonder why? just in 1 year.



fact is... kobe was a starting allstar by his 2nd year at 19

he was an all nba 2nd team/all 1st team defense at age 21

and he was arguably the most talented player in the nba by age 22 ( 2001 )



1998 - Starting allstar - 20.4 ppg per 36min
1999 - ( no allstar game ) - ALL NBA, 20ppg
2000 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 23ppg
2001 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 28ppg
2002 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 27ppg
2003 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 30ppg
2004 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 24ppg
2005 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ( injured ) 27ppg
2006 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 35ppg
2007 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 32ppg
2008 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 28ppg
2009 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 27ppg
2010 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 27ppg
2011 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 25ppg
2012 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 28ppg
2013 - Starting allstar - ALL NBA, ALL DEFENSE 27ppg

i count 16 starting allstar level
15 with a legit superstar level
14 with a legit top 5
13 with top 1-3
BOLD = arguably best player
:applause: :cheers: :rockon: :pimp: :banana:

[dc_chilling]

:applause: :cheers: :rockon: :pimp: :banana:

Kobe was only arguably the best player in like 2005-2006. In 2003, Shaq was the best player along with Duncan. By 2008 Lebron had surpassed Kobe already.

[BlkMambaGOAT]

Kobe was only arguably the best player in like 2005-2006. In 2003, Shaq was the best player along with Duncan. By 2008 Lebron had surpassed Kobe already.
http://www.cinemablend.com/images/news/37715/_1369324690.gif

At the earliest 2011.

Winning rings>>>>Winning MVP/Statpadding in the Leastern Conference.

[freshperry]

Ok fine, kobe was only great for 16.5 years. happy now?

[BlkMambaGOAT]

Ok fine, kobe was only great for 16.5 years. happy now?


Gawdbe is kind and merciful. He will forgive you for doubting his long period of greatness.
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/053/9/3/Godbe_Bryant_by_hfs991hfs.png
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: