Volkswagens new 300 MPG car not allowed in America [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

secund2nun

04-09-2014, 04:58 PM

but Teslas are sold in the US...I've driven even one :confusedshrug:

pretty sure that is just conspiracy nonsense...

So facts are conspiracies now? Why do we have multiple cases of US versions of cars at around 25-26 mpg while the European version of cars are at 55 mpg? Why are do we have many cases of cheap cars with very high mpg banned in the US for no reason?

Teslas are expensive battery powered electric cars. The article I listed above are cheaper high mpg gas cars, which are either inexplicably banned in the US or have a US version which a much lower mpg.

When compared to places like Europe, America is a cesspool of corporate greed and corruption. Europe has even banned most GMO foods while we appoint Monsanto executives as FDA chairmen. Europe banned Fluoride in the water while we continue to put it in our water supply.

-p.tiddy-

04-09-2014, 05:03 PM

So facts are conspiracies now? Why do we have multiple cases of US versions of cars at around 25-26 mpg while the European version of cars are at 55 mpg? Why are do we have many cases of cheap cars with very high mpg banned in the US for no reason?

Teslas are expensive battery powered electric cars. The article I listed above are cheaper high mpg gas cars, which are either inexplicably banned in the US or have a US version which a much lower mpg.

When compared to places like Europe, America is a cesspool of corporate greed and corruption. Europe has even banned most GMO foods while we appoint Monsanto executives as FDA chairmen. Europe banned Fluoride in the water while we continue to put it in our water supply.
Tesla makes both hybrid and all electric...and they are cheaper than the car mentioned in the OP

Hybrids get around 85 MPG...and are sold in the US
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32557

only $65k

how do you explain that :confusedshrug:

secund2nun

04-09-2014, 05:03 PM

Also by Tesla free energy I mean the power source from Nikola Tesla's work, not the electric Tesla car company which just so happened to be named after Tesla (but is unrelated to Tesla free energy)

KevinNYC

04-09-2014, 05:16 PM

So facts are conspiracies now? Why do we have multiple cases of US versions of cars at around 25-26 mpg while the European version of cars are at 55 mpg? Why are do we have many cases of cheap cars with very high mpg banned in the US for no reason?

Teslas are expensive battery powered electric cars. The article I listed above are cheaper high mpg gas cars, which are either inexplicably banned in the US or have a US version which a much lower mpg.

When compared to places like Europe, America is a cesspool of corporate greed and corruption. Europe has even banned most GMO foods while we appoint Monsanto executives as FDA chairmen. Europe banned Fluoride in the water while we continue to put it in our water supply.

You first need to find a fact.

Also the car in the original post is $150,000. Is that because of European corporate corruption?

KevinNYC

04-09-2014, 05:19 PM

:biggums:
a 0-to-50 mph time of 32 seconds

secund2nun

04-09-2014, 05:24 PM

Tesla makes both hybrid and all electric...and they are cheaper than the car mentioned in the OP

Hybrids get around 85 MPG...and are sold in the US
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32557

only $65k

how do you explain that :confusedshrug:

Only 65,000? 65,000 is very expensive not to mention the maintenance in hybrids is expensive

Compare that to the European Nissan Qashqai SUV (56 mph) which you can get 24,000 dollars.

The European Toyota Urban Cruiser has 53 mpg and you can get it for 23,000 dollars.

You can get the 1.6 liter Seat Toledo (83 mpg) for 23,000 dollars and the 1.2 liter Seat Toledo (64 mpg) for 19,000 dollars.

Hmm 83 mpg Toledo for 23,000 or 85 mpg Tesla for 65,000?

secund2nun

04-09-2014, 05:25 PM

You first need to find a fact.

Also the car in the original post is $150,000. Is that because of European corporate corruption?

You need to learn to read first. The article I posted had cars that were cheap around the 20,000 dollar mark. See my post above for prices.

-p.tiddy-

04-09-2014, 05:26 PM

yes but $65k is half the price of the car in the OP

KevinNYC

04-09-2014, 05:35 PM

You first need to find a fact.

Also the car in the original post is $150,000. Is that because of European corporate corruption?

Yeah, that was too separate points. Hence the "Also."

You're promoting nonsense from a conspiracy website that was the point about facts.
Versions of the nonsense you're promoting have been around for a while
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/passat.asp

The other point was in reference to you complaining that the starting at $80,000 Tesla's are expensive while saying that the far more expensive Volkswagen in this thread is only being kept down because of THE MAN!

oarabbus

04-09-2014, 05:39 PM

The article is basically misleading.

For comparison to the car, The Chevy Volt and Volvo V60 get >100 MPGe and they are both plug-in hybrids. The important thing to note is the EPA created a metric called "Miles per gallon equivalent" or MPGe specifically to compare plug-in hybrids to 'traditional' hybrids and gasoline cars. They are different than "traditional" hybrids which only have a hybrid drivetrain and a small battery that can only engage all-electric mode in certain situations.

Plug in hybrids don't actually get 150 or 300mpg; they get 50mpg (or whatever) when using the hybrid engine, and "infinity" mpg when using purely electric mode since you are travelling distance but using 0 gasoline. However, you are using battery power which must be recharged. The MPGe metric combines the miles per gallon as well as the miles per kilowatt hours of energy used in electric mode into one metric which gives you 300mpg.

Anyway, the MPGe is kinda BS because you can make it artificially high with an extremely light car with a good battery like that Volswagen XL1. What I'm saying is the difference between 150 and 300mpge isn't as big as it seems it is, and there's no conspiracy to "ban" this car. Factor in commute length compared to battery range, and the cost of electricity (and gas) in your area... MPGe starts to become less helpful. It's just like basketball advanced statistics, really. TS% or eFG% are useful in very specific scenarios but not for most circumstances.

The Volkswagen in the OP is basically a "concept car" or a very small design/release model. It also hasn't been actually rated by the EPA, where it would likely get a lower rating

Volkswagen says that the XL1 will be most fuel-efficient car on the plant, with a UK rating of 313 MPG, or 261 MPGe here in the US, although the eventual US MPGe figure will be lower given the discrepancies between the EPA and the European NEDC testing system.

Based on other vehicles rated on both systems, we can fairly accurate assess that the US efficiency number will be around 175 MPGe; still far and away ahead of the EPA’s current leader, the Scion iQ EV at 121 MPGe.

edit: there is some underlying truth in the article; the automobile and energy industries don't want to change the status quo. Just look at how hard Tesla direct-to-consumer sales are being fought in some states right now

secund2nun

04-09-2014, 05:45 PM

Yeah, that was too separate points. Hence the "Also."

You're promoting nonsense from a conspiracy website that was the point about facts.

The other point was in reference to you complaining that the starting at $80,000 Tesla's are expensive while saying that the far more expensive Volkswagen in this thread is only being kept down because of THE MAN!

First of all I was not talking about the expensive Volkswagen when making the complaint, which is why I posted the article about the other low cost high MPG cars which is what I was taking about not to mention no matter how expensive it is it should still not be banned in the US.

So facts and prices taken directly off of the car maker's website is a conspiracy?

Go on www.seat.co.uk and look up the range price list for April 2014 and the seat Toledo product leaflet.

These are accurate prices and MPG:

1.6 liter Seat Toledo (83 mpg)=23,000 dollars
1.2 liter Seat Toledo (64 mpg)=19,000 dollars.
European Nissan Qashqai SUV (56 mph)= 24,000 dollars
European Toyota Urban Cruiser (53 mpg)= 23,000 dollars

KevinNYC

04-09-2014, 05:57 PM

Only 65,000? 65,000 is very expensive not to mention the maintenance in hybrids is expensive

Compare that to the European Nissan Qashqai SUV (56 mph) which you can get 24,000 dollars.

The European Toyota Urban Cruiser has 53 mpg and you can get it for 23,000 dollars.

You can get the 1.6 liter Seat Toledo (83 mpg) for 23,000 dollars and the 1.2 liter Seat Toledo (64 mpg) for 19,000 dollars.

Hmm 83 mpg Toledo for 23,000 or 85 mpg Tesla for 65,000?

Some facts for you

Car Companies rebrand cars for different markets

Nissan Qashqai
The Qashqai is not offered in North American markets. Instead, Nissan offers the Nissan Rogue. Although larger and appearing to be a completely different model it is based on the same basic platform as the Qashqai

Toyota Urban Cruiser
The Toyota ist is a subcompact car made in Japan by Toyota. It is exported to the United States as the Scion xA and Scion xD and to Europe as the Urban Cruiser.

Seat Toledo
A seat Toledo is basically a Volkswagen Golf

You're talking different units

Imperial gallon just over 4.5L
US gallon just under 3.8 L

European emission standards are not higher. (http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/diesel/4330313) The might be higher for CO2, but not for NO2. The US standard is 4 times as strict.

Additionally, since diesel doesn't evaporate like gasoline, the pumps are dirtier--no matter how clean those diesel engines are. And then there's another challenge for diesels--stricter U.S. emission regulations. The 50-state light-duty vehicle limit for emissions of nitrogen oxides is 0.07 grams per mile. In Western Europe, the limit is 0.29. Reducing NOx to nitrogen and oxygen is much harder with a diesel engine because the exhaust is typically cooler and contains less oxygen compared to a gas engine. To meet U.S. regulations, diesel engines are required to use complicated--and expensive--high-pressure fuel injection and after-treatment systems that in some cases inject an aqueous urea solution to handle the NOx. The added expense of course means an even longer payback period for the consumer.

secund2nun

04-09-2014, 06:06 PM

Some facts for you

Car Companies rebrand cars for different markets

You're talking different units

European emission standards are not higher. (http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/diesel/4330313) The might be higher for CO2, but not for NO2. The US standard is 4 times as strict.

No I am not. The MPG I listed were already adjusted from imperial to US.

Nissan Qashqai SUV= 56 US MPG
Toyota Urban Cruiser= 53 US MPG
Seat Toledo= 64 US MPG (80 imperial), 83 US MPG (100 imperial)

As for CO2 and NO2 I don't really care about that. I care about MPG and the availability of high MPG cars in the country and the price of those cars. High MPG is what costs the gas companies money and saves the people money.

As for the US version of the cars, the US version of the Toyota Urban Cruiser (Scion) has much worse MPG than the European version for example. The US version of the Nissan Qashqai SUV has only 26 mpg compared to 56 mpg for the European version.

KevinNYC

04-09-2014, 06:07 PM

KevinNYC

04-09-2014, 06:10 PM

As for CO2 and NO2 I don't really care about that. I care about MPG and the availability of high MPG cars in the country and the price of those cars. High MPG is what costs the gas companies money and saves the people money.

Doesn't matter if you don't care about it, it's a major reasons for the differences when comparing US cars to European cars.

We used to have major problem with Acid Rain in this country and that's why our emission standards are different from Europe's.

If your argument is real, point to the law that bans these cheap European supercars.

KeylessEntry

04-09-2014, 06:14 PM

the main reason we dont have higher mpg cars in the states is because most american consumers have no interest in tiny plastic cars with 1 liter engines

secund2nun

04-09-2014, 06:17 PM

Doesn't matter if you don't care about it, it's a major reasons for the differences when comparing US cars to European cars.

We used to have major problem with Acid Rain in this country and that's why our emission standards are different from Europe's.

If your argument is real, point to the law that bans these cheap European supercars.

CO2 and NO2 has little to do with corporate greed like MPG does. CO2 and NO2 doesn't cost the corporations anything, nor does it save consumers money.

MPG does and that is what the debate is about. MPG will directly hurt gas company profits while saving people money.

When you compare apples to apples and you add in the features needed to comply with US emission standards, a VW Golf turbodiesel gets 42 miles per US gallon on the highway. (http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/golf/2014/?style=200486693#specs-pod-anchor)

I am not talking about the VW.

Here are the facts:

European Nissan Qashqai = 56 US MPG
American Nissan Qashqai = 26 US MPG

Seat Toledo= 64, 80 US MPG (banned in US)

Toyota Urban Cruiser= 53 US MPG
US Version of Urban Cruiser (Scion SUV)= 28 US MPG

secund2nun

04-09-2014, 06:18 PM

n/a

fiddy

04-09-2014, 06:18 PM

the main reason we dont have higher mpg cars in the states is because most american consumers have no interest in tiny plastic cars with 1 liter engines
Actually hybrid cars sell better in the U.S. than in Europe.

Draz

04-09-2014, 06:18 PM

My girlfriend chevy Cruz does like 240-270MPG

Lightweight
Pretty good interior
Exterior looks good

enayes

04-09-2014, 06:20 PM

My girlfriend chevy Cruz does like 240-270MPG

Lightweight
Pretty good interior
Exterior looks good

the cruze gets like 40 MPG

KevinNYC

04-09-2014, 06:21 PM

Bullshit on banned in the US.

Show me the law that prevents them from selling that car here.

Also show me a US Seat dealership to begin with.

KevinNYC

04-09-2014, 06:23 PM

Actually hybrid cars sell better in the U.S. than in Europe.

The US solution for better MPG is hybrids. The European solution is diesel fueled cars that don't have to meet US emission standards.

KeylessEntry

04-09-2014, 06:27 PM

Actually hybrid cars sell better in the U.S. than in Europe.

yeah because europeans would rather buy crappy little diesels for 10k instead of spending 30k on a prius. nobody buys diesel in the states.

secund2nun

04-09-2014, 06:35 PM

The US solution for better MPG is hybrids. The European solution is diesel fueled cars that don't have to meet US emission standards.

Then how does it explain the fact that the US has tons of non hybrid cars that have much worse emission ratings then the high mpg non hybrid European cars? Why do we allow extreme gas guzzlers like Cadillac SUVs and Hummers while the European version higher MPG cars are replaced with US versions which much worse MPG and emissions?

Why does the US version of Urban Cruiser have 28 mpg and clearly worse emission ratings than the European version which has 53 MPG (neither are hybrids)? Same for the US Nissan Qashqai at 26 mpg vs the 56 mpg, both of which are non hybrids?
What possible reason could we have to willingly take the version of the car with worse mpg and worse emission ratings?

secund2nun

04-09-2014, 06:37 PM

Bullshit on banned in the US.

Show me the law that prevents them from selling that car here.

Also show me a US Seat dealership to begin with.

I am sure they would love to sell here in the huge US market, but the dealerships don't exist for obvious reasons...the same reason that the US version of the Urban crusier is at 28 mpg while the European one is at 53 mpg.

fiddy

04-09-2014, 06:55 PM

yeah because europeans would rather buy crappy little diesels for 10k instead of spending 30k on a prius. nobody buys diesel in the states.
Hi

http://images02.olx-st.com/ui/4/50/20/f_72695020-d2c63f5e.jpeg

gts

04-09-2014, 07:00 PM

Banned or not allowed is a misleading word..

There are many cars that are not available in the US because the manufacturers don't want to go through the expense of certifying a car that would be redundant in an already over saturated Hybrid/Electric car market.

Concept cars such as the Volkswagen listed will never be seen on the US highways because they'd have to totally reengineer the car to meet US impact standards, it's not the US don't want the car, they just don't want it untested and seeing as how they'll only build a handful I doubt VW is gonna be willing to front the money and build 25 cars just to the DOT can run them into a wall and various other things...

One of the reasons the MPG ratings are different is because they are tested differently here in the US vs other countries, both are done on Dynos but the US requires the runs to be taken from an idle where in Europe the tests begin in a rolling already up to speed state... By the way both teast are misleading, it's just the EPAs test at least attempts to mimic real world conditions

Another reason for lower MPG is generally US cars are heavier due the the crash standards here (although that's less of a problem now than in the past as most car builders have found it cheaper to only build one chassis But still if an item required in the US can be left off the Euro car they'll do it to save money and weight)

gts

04-09-2014, 07:08 PM

Then how does it explain the fact that the US has tons of non hybrid cars that have much worse emission ratings then the high mpg non hybrid European cars? Why do we allow extreme gas guzzlers like Cadillac SUVs and Hummers while the European version higher MPG cars are replaced with US versions which much worse MPG and emissions?

Why does the US version of Urban Cruiser have 28 mpg and clearly worse emission ratings than the European version which has 53 MPG (neither are hybrids)? Same for the US Nissan Qashqai at 26 mpg vs the 56 mpg, both of which are non hybrids?
What possible reason could we have to willingly take the version of the car with worse mpg and worse emission ratings?

In most cases you'll find because the cars overseas are equipped with smaller engines... Also US cars have to meet much stricter emissions standards than overseas. Emission controls take their toll on MPG also

KevinNYC

04-09-2014, 07:18 PM

In most cases you'll find because the cars overseas are equipped with smaller engines... Also US cars have to meet much stricter emissions standards than overseas. Emission controls take their toll on MPG also

Yup. Mazda has delayed its Skyactiv Diesel for the America Market twice now. It was supposed to be ready in fall 2013 for 2014 Mazda 6, but once you put the emissions controls on and take out all the NO2 that you can get away with on European cars, the performance took a hit.

I am sure they would love to sell here in the huge US market, but the dealerships don't exist for obvious reasons..

Yeah, the obvious reason being they are sold as Volkswagens in the US.

the same reason that the US version of the Urban crusier is at 28 mpg while the European one is at 53 mpg.Also as noted, the US version is bigger and heavier.

ZenMaster

04-09-2014, 07:31 PM

When you compare apples to apples and you add in the features needed to comply with US emission standards, a VW Golf turbodiesel gets 42 miles per US gallon on the highway. (http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/golf/2014/?style=200486693#specs-pod-anchor)

:eek: :eek: :eek:

What the hell kind of parts you got to put in there to make a Golf diesel only go 18 kilometres per litre on the highway?

KevinNYC

04-09-2014, 07:43 PM

:eek: :eek: :eek:

What the hell kind of parts you got to put in there to make a Golf diesel only go 18 kilometres per litre on the highway?

As noted above Europe and the US measure MPG or KPL differently. The tests are actually different. So it's not apples to apples.

Secondly, in the US, you need things like catalytic converters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter) to reduce the amount of NO and NO2 released by the engine.

Here's what Volkswagen advertises for mileage with its clean diesel engines
http://web.vw.com/tdi-clean-diesel/

KevinNYC

04-09-2014, 07:56 PM

Here's a good article on diesel and emissions standards in the US and Europe
http://www.hybridcars.com/will-america-avoid-europes-clean-diesel-problems/
Smog is one of the reasons the US regulates Nitrogen oxides so strongly.

http://www.hybridcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/668x476xSmog_150312_Barbican20to20Parliament202832 9.jpg.pagespeed.ic.7mmoK1CE6x.jpg

ZenMaster

04-09-2014, 08:02 PM

As noted above Europe and the US measure MPG or KPL differently. The tests are actually different. So it's not apples to apples.

Secondly, in the US, you need things like catalytic converters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter) to reduce the amount of NO and NO2 released by the engine.

Here's what Volkswagen advertises for mileage with its clean diesel engines
http://web.vw.com/tdi-clean-diesel/

A catalytic converter is old technology and has been used in Europe for more than twenty years. Nothing special about this and the regulations on it have tightened over time.

So Europe and the US measure MPG/KPL differently, why is that? And since you know of this, then how does it convert? If not apples to apples then what, what does the 18 kilometers per litre convert to?
Why not use the same test, what is the argument for one being better than the other?

CelticBaller

04-09-2014, 08:13 PM

:biggums:
a 0-to-50 mph time of 32 seconds
what a pos

gts

04-09-2014, 08:14 PM

A catalytic converter is old technology and has been used in Europe for more than twenty years. Nothing special about this and the regulations on it have tightened over time.

So Europe and the US measure MPG/KPL differently, why is that? And since you know of this, then how does it convert? If not apples to apples then what, what does the 18 kilometers per litre convert to?
Why not use the same test, what is the argument for one being better than the other?

In the US the EPA requires the test to be more like real road conditions.. the test is done from a standing start and the car is accelerated up to road speed then held at a steady rate for a period of time... In Europe the test is begun once the car is at road speed already thus bypassing the most inefficient period for an engine

Both tests are actually somewhat bogus in that they're hedged towards exaggerating the actual facts... a more real world test would be to have a single combined highway/city rating that's tested over a simulated 150 miles instead of however far the car can go on one gallon or litre of fuel...

anyone who has a MPG computer in their car can tell you the numbers can be misleading if only checked for a short period of time

KeylessEntry

04-09-2014, 08:20 PM

Hi

This is the type of car i was referring to, extremely popular in europe and virtually non existent in the states

I get that you are a stupid ass romani but its really not that confusing

http://greencarsblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/europe-small-diesel-car.jpg

ZenMaster

04-09-2014, 08:22 PM

In the US the EPA requires the test to be more like real road conditions.. the test is done from a standing start and the car is accelerated up to road speed then held at a steady rate for a period of time... In Europe the test is begun once the car is at road speed already thus bypassing the most inefficient period for an engine

Both tests are actually somewhat bogus in that they're hedged towards exaggerating the actual facts... a more real world test would be to have a single combined highway/city rating that's tested over a simulated 150 miles instead of however the car can go on one gallon or litre of fuel...

anyone who has a MPG computer in their car can tell you the numbers can be misleading if only checked for a short period of time

You're right both test are somwhat bogus, but it's highly relevant to know what 42mpg converts too in the European test.

KevinNYC

04-09-2014, 08:22 PM

A catalytic converter is old technology and has been used in Europe for more than twenty years. Nothing special about this and the regulations on it have tightened over time.

So Europe and the US measure MPG/KPL differently, why is that? And since you know of this, then how does it convert? If not apples to apples then what, what does the 18 kilometers per litre convert to?
Why not use the same test, what is the argument for one being better than the other?
I think they just developed the tests differently. Supposedly the US test to closer to real world standards.

I don't know what 18 kilometers would convert to.

I was using catalytic converter as one of the pieces in what is known as diesel aftertreatment. If you google that you'll find pages like this one.
http://green.autoblog.com/2009/10/19/greenlings-why-cant-americans-have-good-small-diesels/

http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2009/10/vw-golf-aftertreatment.png

This can add more than $2,000 to $5,000 to the price of a car. With US gas prices cheaper than Europe which gives tax benefits to diesel, it's a significant factor. It's one of the reasons there's just never been strong market for diesel cars in the US.

fiddy

04-09-2014, 08:31 PM

This is the type of car i was referring to, extremely popular in europe and virtually non existent in the states

I get that you are a stupid ass romani but its really not that confusing

http://greencarsblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/europe-small-diesel-car.jpg
Fvck off clown, i have never seen this car live, no self respecting man is going to buy this crap.

highwhey

04-09-2014, 08:32 PM

:biggums:
a 0-to-50 mph time of 32 seconds
:oldlol: sheeeeiit

KeylessEntry

04-09-2014, 08:34 PM

Fvck off clown, i have never seen this car live, no self respecting man is going to buy this crap.
the fact that people from bulgaria cant afford new cars does not mean these little turdbuckets are not incredibly popular in places like Italy and Spain

CelticBaller

04-09-2014, 08:35 PM

We Americans prefer fast cars and fast cars only

oh and trucks

gts

04-09-2014, 09:00 PM

You're right both test are somwhat bogus, but it's highly relevant to know what 42mpg converts too in the European test. it's only relevant if the tests are conducted in the same manner.. since they aren't done in the same manner and the cars themselves have fairly significant differences and you can't buy a euro market car in the US or visa versa it's apples and oranges, not even close to being relevant...

ZenMaster

04-09-2014, 09:12 PM

it's only relevant if the tests are conducted in the same manner.. since they aren't done in the same manner and the cars themselves have fairly significant differences and you can't buy a euro market car in the US or visa versa it's apples and oranges, not even close to being relevant...

You're misunderstanding me, it's relevant to know what 42mpg American test converts to in km/L in the European test.
I can't find this information, only straight converters, which as you say, is useless when the tests aren't done the same way.

gts

04-09-2014, 09:13 PM

You guys need to stop acting like you actually need to haul shit/go off roading/and need 0-60 in 6 seconds. 99% of people just need to drive to an average work and go to the store. All this macho bullshit is so stupid. :rolleyes: How's that Yugo working out for ya?

KeylessEntry

04-09-2014, 09:23 PM

Kungfro

04-09-2014, 09:36 PM

99% of people just need to drive to an average work and go to the store.

Spoken like someone who has never been out of the city.

bdreason

04-10-2014, 01:49 AM

obese people dont need to stuff their faces with mountains of junk food every day, there is no logical reason for them to behave this way.

if an obese person really desires to stuff their face 24/7, who are we to stop them? if someone wants to waste money on a huge truck or muscle car.... who cares, its their money.

If it's my tax dollar paying for their medical care... I certainly have a right to question their lifestyle choices.

PHX_Phan

04-10-2014, 03:03 AM

Just tell me a logical reason to drive something like a 2014 Mustang when you can drive a 1996 Civic or something? It's purely status symbol.

You don't need a massive Hemi V8 truck that could fit a forklift in the back, unless you own a construction company.

Enhances the driving experience. Some people drive a lot and enjoy pushing around something nicer. I'm not really talking about Benzo's, but a nice car under 35k isn't unreasonable.

Agree on the large trucks, though. I hate people in general who drive a vehicle much larger than their needs. Soccer moms driving around their one kid in a full-size SUV, toolbags with huge lifted diesel trucks and the most they haul is a big screen TV from the store to home that one time.

You can't even get a small truck anymore. The market is shrinking, and even the ones available are larger than full-sizes from a decade ago.

KeylessEntry

04-10-2014, 06:11 AM

If it's my tax dollar paying for their medical care... I certainly have a right to question their lifestyle choices.

What the hell does "having the right to question their lifestyle choices" even mean?? If "questioning their lifestyle choices" means "complaining about fat people on the internet", then yeah, I suppose you have that "right".

Gay people getting marriage benefits comes out of my tax dollars, so I have the right to question their lifestyle choices? In addition to obese people, my tax dollars also pay for the healthcare of cigarette smokers and alcoholics, so I am allowed to question their lifestyle choices, correct?

I think its a pretty entitled view to claim that whenever someone else receives benefits paid for with your tax dollars, that you have the right to question their lifestyle. This aint communist Russia, this is MURICA, home of the free. So while you are allowed to go around and question an obese persons choices, they have the right to tell you to stop trying to run their lives and go and fvck yourself.

fiddy

04-10-2014, 06:21 AM

What the hell does "having the right to question their lifestyle choices" even mean?? If "questioning their lifestyle choices" means "complaining about fat people on the internet", then yeah, I suppose you have that "right".

Gay people getting marriage benefits comes out of my tax dollars, so I have the right to question their lifestyle choices? In addition to obese people, my tax dollars also pay for the healthcare of cigarette smokers and alcoholics, so I am allowed to question their lifestyle choices, correct?

I think its a pretty entitled view to claim that whenever someone else receives benefits paid for with your tax dollars, that you have the right to question their lifestyle. This aint communist Russia, this is MURICA, home of the free. So while you are allowed to go around and "question an obese persons choices", they have the right to tell you to stop trying to run their lives and go and fvck yourself.

Murica=the 4th Reich. People in contemporary Russia have more freedom than US citizens.

just trolling