True or False: If Pippen didnt join the Bulls MJ would be ringless

[Akrazotile]

What do you say?

[mattvNJ]

so many variables, depends if they managed to snag another high tier player. Id say hed have less rings for sure. But ringless i doubt it.

[Milbuck]

C-

[Nikola_]

bald dominiq wilkens

[Rocketswin2013]

This is practically a troll thread. Considering Houston was salivating at his testicles since 85', he would have probably would have left and joined Hakeem in 1990. And considering there was no salary cap and Les Alexander the owner is known for his James Dolan-like team stacking, it's likely.

[red1]

false. he would have a contending team around him sooner or later

[TheMarkMadsen]

So the Bulls are left with Olden Polynice instead of Pippen?

then in 88 they maybe draft Majerle instead of Will Perdue

Jordan, Marjerle and Grant win a title in 93 for sure, probably still win in 92

I don't think they get past the Pistons in 91 w/o Pippens scoring and defense.

96 against Pippen, Payton & Kemp i got to give to the Sonics.

that's just assuming they drafted Majerle and stuck with him, there are a lot of variables like another poster said, who knows what other trades they make if they don't get Pippen.

[mehyaM24]

false,reinsdorf would have eventually brought somebody in to carry jordan on defense.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Considering MJ molded Pippen into the player he eventually became ... eventually they would've got him some type of adequate help.

Pippen didn't "join" Chicago either BTW. He didn't start off on the Bulls in MVP caliber form the way in which say a LeBron James took his MVP talents to join another already established MVP caliber talent.

[Soundwave]

If Chicago couldn't build a team around MJ, then he probably would have been dealt to like the Knicks (or gulp) the Lakers and won titles there. Much like how Barkley got traded to Phoenix.

Jerry Buss would've thrown the kitchen sink at getting Jordan.

[guy]

Bulls either get someone else (probably go after Barkley hard when he was demanding a trade for example) or Jordan leaves for a team like New York (was good friends with both Ewing and Oakley, loved New York in general, and they would've clearly been title favorites.) Even if nothing changes, I have my doubts that Jordan wouldn't have led them to 1 or 2.

[MavsSuperFan]

False, MJ would have won with a wide variety of teams. MJ might not have won 6, but definitely won one.

[CelticBaller]

He made the playoffs and got past the second round with role played pippen so yes most likely

[KrizMiz]

false - he would have won 1

but pippen was definetly the biggest factor for jordans rings!

[imdaman99]

Branstans with their daily insecure thread.

[GaryRaymond23]

Wayyyyyyyyy too many factors to make that assumption. I'll bite tho, I say False. Jordan's greatness would've given him at least 1 title run.

[Da_Realist]

Jordan's greatness would've given him at least 1 title run.

Right. I'll assume the most talented and maniacally competitive guy in the league would have won something in 15 years. There are many lesser players that have won without Scottie Pippen, why couldn't MJ?

[sdot_thadon]

He likely would have still managed to win at least one, the book on his legacy would be drastically changed however. I never liked the notion that Mj "made" Scottie, that's unfair to all the work Pip put in over the years. Bottom line Mj would have been less successful for sure.

[guy]

false - he would have won 1

but pippen was definetly the biggest factor for jordans rings!

No. Jordan himself was.

[sdot_thadon]

No. Jordan himself was.
Indeed he was, these discussions are good though because they shed a light of reality on the way we've viewed the goat. The flawless vision of his career only really exists in a vacuum(the past) if his career happen right now he'd be viewed in a very different light.

[guy]

Indeed he was, these discussions are good though because they shed a light of reality on the way we've viewed the goat. The flawless vision of his career only really exists in a vacuum(the past) if his career happen right now he'd be viewed in a very different light.

In what way? Good chance he still has multiple rings/MVPs right now.

[nightprowler10]

Bottom line Mj would have been less successful for sure.
I'm sure MJ himself would tell you the same.

[sdot_thadon]

In what way? Good chance he still has multiple rings/MVPs right now.
Simply because we judge modern guys far more harshly than those days. With social media tracking your every step and misstep. Look at this forum for an easy example of the treatment of the Kobe Bryants and Lebron James of the world. Mj would get the same.

[Myth]

False. He probably wouldn't have 6, but no way Jordan goes his career without winning a few championships.

[guy]

Simply because we judge modern guys far more harshly than those days. With social media tracking your every step and misstep. Look at this forum for an easy example of the treatment of the Kobe Bryants and Lebron James of the world. Mj would get the same.

That doesn't mean he couldn't be considered the GOAT. If Jordan came along twenty years later and still played as well as he did and had the resume he did, I don't see how he's still not widely considered the GOAT. Sure, his bad games might be inspected more, he might get blasted for his comments and off the court stuff, and shit, he might get caught up in some stupid scandal like a rape allegation. But you couldn't really argue against his results either way.

[Soundwave]

The Lakers would've traded for him just like Phoenix got Barkley out of Philly. Jerry Buss wanted Jordan badly, he was the one crown jewel LA could never have. It would just have been a countdown to Jordan getting unhappy enough to want out.

I really think in hindsight that's probably exactly what would've happened.

[sdot_thadon]

That doesn't mean he couldn't be considered the GOAT. If Jordan came along twenty years later and still played as well as he did and had the resume he did, I don't see how he's still not widely considered the GOAT. Sure, his bad games might be inspected more, he might get blasted for his comments and off the court stuff, and shit, he might get caught up in some stupid scandal like a rape allegation. But you couldn't really argue against his results either way.
Yes assuming Identical production and accolades sure. Would probably hold true for a number of goat candidates. Greats stand up in any era, but the circumstances drive the way they are viewed more than anything else. There stands a chance Mj would have been vilified in this era. Magic may have been seen as the goat had Mj not passed through in the 90s. The ugly chuckball 2000s may have never happened either. Lots of things would be viewed differently.

[Jailblazers7]

The Lakers would've traded for him just like Phoenix got Barkley out of Philly. Jerry Buss wanted Jordan badly, he was the one crown jewel LA could never have. It would just have been a countdown to Jordan getting unhappy enough to want out.

I really think in hindsight that's probably exactly what would've happened.

I could definitely see it. Without Pippen I don't know if Jordan stays in Chicago because of how vocal he was in his criticism of their front office before they started winning.

[Dro]

Its freaking Jordan. Yes, he would have at least ONE freaking ring...

[Calabis]

Considering MJ molded Pippen into the player he eventually became ... eventually they would've got him some type of adequate help.

Pippen didn't "join" Chicago either BTW. He didn't start off on the Bulls in MVP caliber form the way in which say a LeBron James took his MVP talents to join another already established MVP caliber talent.

This x10....Pippen was drafted and didnt even start. Of course he had talent but he himself admits the one on one sessions with Jordan after practices helped him immensely. Also credited his defense with having to guard the best everyday in practice. People act like Jordan had nothing to do with Pips development. Trying to compare James leaving to join up with a proven stud in Wade and possibly the second PF in the league is a joke.

[chips93]

so many variables, depends if they managed to snag another high tier player. Id say hed have less rings for sure. But ringless i doubt it.

this

if they didnt have pippen, they would have found a way to add some other star