A drafted player who refuses to... (Ricky Rubio, Dante Exum)

[$LakerGold]

A drafted player who refuses to sign with the team that drafted him should be banned from playing in the NBA. That way -- there's less drama & less demands in the future. Seriously, the team wasted a draft pick for you & then you disrespect them like that? :facepalm

When Ricky Rubio stated that he wanted the TWolves to get better/improve first, & then he'll maybe play for them? What the hell? Are you that good, bro? .................. He was serious after all. It's disgusting. :facepalm

& then now, this..... Dante Exum.

[QUOTE]A draft prospect who grew up overseas really wanted to play for the Los Angeles Lakers. But a team drafting before the Lakers also wanted the player. So, the player threatened to sign with a foreign team if he couldn

[cos88]

can't wait to laugh at the team that gets this guy after 3 months in the season. he has a great potential bust, for a top 6 pick.

[clipps]

I hate that crap too. Kobe, Steve Francis, Danny Ferry, John Elway, especially Eli Manning (I'm a Chargers fan). I wish they'd do a 3 year ban at least. I was honestly scared Blake Griffin would pull that crap when the Clippers won the lottery.

[To4]

I don't know why they do this.. Only a handful of people are privileged to play and be drafted in the NBA. and they still do is complain. Even if you were drafted in a bad team just bolt after your rookie contract if thats the case

[moe94]

Fvck Steve Francis

[FireDavidKahn]

Ricky Rubio never refused to sign with the Wolves.:oldlol:

[FireDavidKahn]

Watch the Lakers get the #1 overall pick and ruin Exum's plan on being a Laker.:lol

[$LakerGold]

Ricky Rubio never refused to sign with the Wolves.:oldlol:
:rolleyes:

[DStebb716]

No guarantee he actually does this. I'd assume he isn't dumb enough to try this.

[ZenMaster]

I really don't like the "do they think they're that much better" angle, it's unbecomming.

There's a culture aspect of it that means a lot. An international rookie has to leave their country, their friends and often their family for longer periods of time. They do this around age 18-22 with the prospect of hopefully being gone 10 years or more, but for that to happen you have to do well.

How can you fault someone that young for wanting to play a certain team? Getting on the right team, being comfortable and developing right is worth millions.

Also I have to say hearing Americans complaing about this doesn't seem right, the whole idea of a draft goes against free will for individuals, a core staple of american society.

[Akrazotile]

A drafted player who refuses to sign with the team that drafted him should be banned from playing in the NBA. That way -- there's less drama & less demands in the future. Seriously, the team wasted a draft pick for you & then you disrespect them like that? :facepalm

When Ricky Rubio stated that he wanted the TWolves to get better/improve first, & then he'll maybe play for them? What the hell? Are you that good, bro? .................. He was serious after all. It's disgusting. :facepalm

& then now, this..... Dante Exum.



http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/27/report-nba-general-manager-concerned-dante-exum-will-force-his-way-to-lakers/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

What do you guys think?

I hate when fans who watch guys throw a ball around care way more than they should about what the professional athletes do with their careers.

[Combat Wombat]

Hate to break to Exum but if it comes to a choice between him and Embiid/Wiggins/Parker, Lakers are taking one of the latter.

[outbreak]

Massive mis direction in this article. That quote is like a month and a half old. In the same interview he said his ideal choice was orlando as he and oladipo are good friends and would make a good back court. In another article I've read from an australian journo he mentioned he'd be happy to land in philly as he believed in their rebuilding process. The kid hasn't been looking to force his way anywhere, of course if a reporter asks you would you like to play in xxx city your going to say yes and not limit your options. Using an old quote and ignoring his other interviews makes me think this isn't a concern.

[iamgine]

A drafted player who refuses to sign with the team that drafted him should be banned from playing in the NBA. That way -- there's less drama & less demands in the future. Seriously, the team wasted a draft pick for you & then you disrespect them like that? :facepalm

When Ricky Rubio stated that he wanted the TWolves to get better/improve first, & then he'll maybe play for them? What the hell? Are you that good, bro? .................. He was serious after all. It's disgusting. :facepalm

& then now, this..... Dante Exum.



http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/27/report-nba-general-manager-concerned-dante-exum-will-force-his-way-to-lakers/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

What do you guys think?
I do think if a player has declare himself for the draft, then if the team who draft him calls him up and he doesn't appear within a reasonable time, there should be warning letters. If ignored then the NBA should start docking 100% of his future salary for the days he missed.

i.e Rubio decides to play for a foreign team for 2 years after drafted despite the Wolves calling him, then his first 2 seasons in the NBA he doesn't get paid at all, no matter what team he gets into by then.

[GOBB]

Exum did not say he wants to play for the Lakers only. He picked the Lakers as an ideal situation because Kobe is one of his favorite players. So he would love to learn from him. He also said Orlando would be cool because he is good friends with Oladipo. People on the net taking a quote out of context and running with it. Making opinions on the guy that are so wrong.

[outbreak]

Exum did not say he wants to play for the Lakers only. He picked the Lakers as an ideal situation because Kobe is one of his favorite players. So he would love to learn from him. He also said Orlando would be cool because he is good friends with Oladipo. People on the net taking a quote out of context and running with it. Making opinions on the guy that are so wrong.

exactly plus it's an old quote. He's said in other interviews he would like philly too. I don't think this is a worrisome sign. Most rookies throw out a bunch of locations they'd like to play in and they all show up when drafted. I didn't think Rubio stuck in europe making demands either, weren't the wolves happy to have him play and develop there while they tried out their 10 other point guards they drafted that year :roll:

[aj1987]

I really don't like the "do they think they're that much better" angle, it's unbecomming.

There's a culture aspect of it that means a lot. An international rookie has to leave their country, their friends and often their family for longer periods of time. They do this around age 18-22 with the prospect of hopefully being gone 10 years or more, but for that to happen you have to do well.

How can you fault someone that young for wanting to play a certain team? Getting on the right team, being comfortable and developing right is worth millions.
Because he's getting a shit load of money? Dude's in the NBA make more money in 1 year, than what most people make in their entire lifetime. Don't like it? Then don't play in the NBA. It's as simple as that.


Also I have to say hearing Americans complaing about this doesn't seem right, the whole idea of a draft goes against free will for individuals, a core staple of american society.
:biggums:

The ****'s wrong with you son? The NBA is a private entity. If you make yourself eligible for the draft, you go where the company tells you to go. It's a freaking business. Don't like it? Then quit.

Back to the back, these guys who act all entitled and shit and refuse to play for the team which drafted them should get suspended for a bunch of years. Better yet, they should just be banned from ever playing in the NBA. **** those snobby little *****.

[Myth]

Exum did not say he wants to play for the Lakers only. He picked the Lakers as an ideal situation because Kobe is one of his favorite players. So he would love to learn from him. He also said Orlando would be cool because he is good friends with Oladipo. People on the net taking a quote out of context and running with it. Making opinions on the guy that are so wrong.

I'd laugh if he went there for that reason and then hates being teammates with Kobe.

[Marcus Thornton]

I don't understand why they would do that, especially if they have such high stock. Players with high draft stock stay valuable for years after their rookie contract, even if they don't do so well. If a player really wanted to play for a certain team, just sign a 3 year rookie contract and then sign with said team in free agency.

[ZenMaster]

Because he's getting a shit load of money? Dude's in the NBA make more money in 1 year, than what most people make in their entire lifetime. Don't like it? Then don't play in the NBA. It's as simple as that.


:biggums:

The ****'s wrong with you son? The NBA is a private entity. If you make yourself eligible for the draft, you go where the company tells you to go. It's a freaking business. Don't like it? Then quit.

Back to the back, these guys who act all entitled and shit and refuse to play for the team which drafted them should get suspended for a bunch of years. Better yet, they should just be banned from ever playing in the NBA. **** those snobby little *****.

Depends on how you look at it, if there was an open market Embiid would have 20+ offers this summer.

You're right the NBA is a private entity, but that doesn't mean they don't have stupid rules in place, the NBA isn't perfect.
-A leage setup where the best teams don't go to the playoffs? Try to see it compared to any other sports league in the world and you'll realize how unique and stupid that is.
-The draft like I've already said. Goes for both US and international players, forcing young adults where to live and who to work for...in terms of players living up to their potential the draft is a stupid idea to begin with.
-A prize for being one of the 3 worst teams in the league? A league setup giving teams motivation to lose? Again truly unique and stupid, in the rest of the world you get thrown out of the league for at least a year.

Now because you have this unique and weird setup you have to have all these salary cap rules, it's so important for teams to manage their caps well and because of all these extra rules; restricted free agent, bird rights, luxury tax, repeater luxury tax, mid-level extension, amnesty etc. it makes it hard for casual fans to follow that part of the game.

As for the internationals and the guys who force their way to certain teams, they seem to do just fine.

And to the guy who said Rubio shouldn't be paid for the first two years of his contract, well he wasn't.

[ZenMaster]

Also, you have to remember that time is a flat circle. Everything we've ever done or will do we're gonna do over and over and over again, and those kids and players are gonna be in that draft..again, and you will complain about it again and again and again forever.

[iamgine]

The thing about NBA is they want parity. i.e in English, Italian, Spanish soccer leagues only a few team gets to win. The NBA doesn't want that. They know LA is much more desirable to most people than, say, Milwaukee. That's why the draft etc is set up for parity. I still think it's not enough though, needs to be more system in place.

[aj1987]

First of all, I apologize for being a turd in my previous post.


Depends on how you look at it, if there was an open market Embiid would have 20+ offers this summer.
The point of the draft is to get some talent to teams which would otherwise be lottery bound. For instance, look at the turnaround that Miami had after drafting Wade, the Spurs after they drafted Robinson, the Cav's after they drafted LeBron, etc. Do you believe any of them would've signed with those teams, if there was an open market?


-A leage setup where the best teams don't go to the playoffs? Try to see it compared to any other sports league in the world and you'll realize how unique and stupid that is.
I agree with you on this. They should just get rid of conferences and let the best 16 teams fight it out in the PO's.


-The draft like I've already said. Goes for both US and international players, forcing young adults where to live and who to work for...in terms of players living up to their potential the draft is a stupid idea to begin with.
Not really. If you don't like the concept of the draft, then don't join the NBA. Players are making huge amounts of money. The league does what it thinks is in the best interest of the NBA and hence, the Draft.


-A prize for being one of the 3 worst teams in the league? A league setup giving teams motivation to lose? Again truly unique and stupid, in the rest of the world you get thrown out of the league for at least a year.
As I said earlier, it does work. Look at the turnaround that some of the teams have had. If there was no draft and Jabari, Embid, Exum, and Wiggins, all signed with the Heat on rookie contracts, how do you think the rest of the league will fare? Right now, each of those players has the potential to be a superstar. They could actually help turn around some of these franchises.


Now because you have this unique and weird setup you have to have all these salary cap rules, it's so important for teams to manage their caps well and because of all these extra rules; restricted free agent, bird rights, luxury tax, repeater luxury tax, mid-level extension, amnesty etc. it makes it hard for casual fans to follow that part of the game.

As for the internationals and the guys who force their way to certain teams, they seem to do just fine.
What does salary cap have to do with the draft though? Anways, without a salary cap and the tax penalties, the league would be absolutely horrible. The Knicks, Lakers, and a couple of other superrich franchises would be the only true contenders. The rest of the teams would lack any true talent. What actually would work is contraction. Although I don't support it, that's the only possible solution for your dilemma. Removing the draft won't help at all.

[Jameerthefear]

Massive mis direction in this article. That quote is like a month and a half old. In the same interview he said his ideal choice was orlando as he and oladipo are good friends and would make a good back court. In another article I've read from an australian journo he mentioned he'd be happy to land in philly as he believed in their rebuilding process. The kid hasn't been looking to force his way anywhere, of course if a reporter asks you would you like to play in xxx city your going to say yes and not limit your options. Using an old quote and ignoring his other interviews makes me think this isn't a concern.
Real shit. Exum wants to go to Orlando.

[ZenMaster]

The thing about NBA is they want parity. i.e in English, Italian, Spanish soccer leagues only a few team gets to win. The NBA doesn't want that. They know LA is much more desirable to most people than, say, Milwaukee. That's why the draft etc is set up for parity. I still think it's not enough though, needs to be more system in place.

With 300+ million people and only 32 teams I'd say it's a lot more comparable to the champions league and there a lot of teams compete.

One thing people generally complain about in the NBA is that it lacks overall competiteveness and that only a few teams can win. Most teams don't have a title, two teams have about half the league titles etc.

[ZenMaster]

First of all, I apologize for being a turd in my previous post.


The point of the draft is to get some talent to teams which would otherwise be lottery bound. For instance, look at the turnaround that Miami had after drafting Wade, the Spurs after they drafted Robinson, the Cav's after they drafted LeBron, etc. Do you believe any of them would've signed with those teams, if there was an open market?


I agree with you on this. They should just get rid of conferences and let the best 16 teams fight it out in the PO's.


Not really. If you don't like the concept of the draft, then don't join the NBA. Players are making huge amounts of money. The league does what it thinks is in the best interest of the NBA and hence, the Draft.


As I said earlier, it does work. Look at the turnaround that some of the teams have had. If there was no draft and Jabari, Embid, Exum, and Wiggins, all signed with the Heat on rookie contracts, how do you think the rest of the league will fare? Right now, each of those players has the potential to be a superstar. They could actually help turn around some of these franchises.


What does salary cap have to do with the draft though? Anways, without a salary cap and the tax penalties, the league would be absolutely horrible. The Knicks, Lakers, and a couple of other superrich franchises would be the only true contenders. The rest of the teams would lack any true talent. What actually would work is contraction. Although I don't support it, that's the only possible solution for your dilemma. Removing the draft won't help at all.

You're asuming teams wouldn't get players in an open market but that's not the case, teams can get talent and develop it, there's enough to go around.
Plenty of these teams have money.
There could still be a cap but make it a hard cap and set it fairly high. The soft cap and all these extra special rules is just out smarting yourself.

They have the rookie contracts because of the draft, you would have more internationals that are better than the current bottom NBA players if not for those contracts. The overall quality would be higher.

But most important it gives teams incentive to lose, that's against anything in sports I've ever heard of.

[russwest0]

Exum's best fit in the NBA longterm is as a PG so being the understudy to Kobe doesn't make a ton of sense. Jabari Parker easily makes the most sense since he's the best scorer in this draft by far and could play with Kobe for a year or two before taking over once Kobe retires.

Kobe in general has the best basketball IQ of any player still around. He could teach Jabari a ton about when to score, when to pass, how to approach different teams, how to be a leader, etc.

[aj1987]

You're asuming teams wouldn't get players in an open market but that's not the case, teams can get talent and develop it, there's enough to go around.
Lets say the NBA discarded the Draft tomorrow. There are 6 legit superstar level players coming into the league next season. How many them would go to places like Milwaukee, Philly, Utah, Cleveland, Detroit, etc. over Miami, LA, NY, Chicago, etc.? I don't know if you're been to those places, but they are not exactly places that 20 year old millionaires would want live.


Plenty of these teams have money. There could still be a cap but make it a hard cap and set it fairly high. The soft cap and all these extra special rules is just out smarting yourself.
Not really. That was the reason why there was a lockout like 2 seasons ago. The small market teams are not making much money. The high salary cap wouldn't work because teams like LA, NY, and BKN don't mind spending insane amounts of money.


They have the rookie contracts because of the draft, you would have more internationals that are better than the current bottom NBA players if not for those contracts. The overall quality would be higher.
This would be took long to get into in this thread. Don't feel like doing it now, but no, rookie contracts are extremely essential for lottery teams.


But most important it gives teams incentive to lose, that's against anything in sports I've ever heard of.
It does, but it also gives them better players, which can actually turn around those franchises. We've seem a number of examples in recent years as well.

[Magic731]

Let's be real, nothing has said that Exum is going to force his way anywhere. He has listed multiple teams as places he would like to go and one stupid GM thinks it means he is going to force himself somewhere.

[Rameek]

It happens more in baseball but it does happen in other sports. I dont see anything wrong with it as long as its not a trend. Foreign players do this often and just stay in their country but the team keeps their rights for a time period. Its not that unusual. In baseball the player can not play for any other professional team that year and become eligible to be redrafted the following season.

[Brokenbeat]

Hmmm...

http://instagram.com/p/kiStkckoA0/#

[nevetslc88]

Hmmm...

http://instagram.com/p/kiStkckoA0/#

http://media2.giphy.com/media/S3Ot3hZ5bcy8o/giphy.gif

[Fiasco]

Fvck Steve Francis

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Rubio2Gasol]

Am I the only one who really doesn't see it with this guy? One huge hype train but his highlights are frankly, quite disappointing.

[notatop29pg]

Am I the only one who really doesn't see it with this guy? One huge hype train but his highlights are frankly, quite disappointing.

I'm with you.

Poor mans Rubio.

[coin24]

Am I the only one who really doesn't see it with this guy? One huge hype train but his highlights are frankly, quite disappointing.

Tbh i feel the same way.. Really don't see how people would think he's a top pick..
I'd rather see the lakers take wiggins/Parker/randle etc over him

[coin24]

Also, is he even playing now? Or just fu*king around at the AIS?

[MichaelCorleone]

Like how Kobe pouted and demanded to play in LA, lil baby didn't want to play ball in Charlotte.:oldlol: :facepalm

[Magic731]

Also, is he even playing now? Or just fu*king around at the AIS?
He's training in Los Angeles.

[SpanishACB]

how does Rubio fit into what you're saying?

He had a contract with Barcelona and if he left earlier Wolves would have had to pay.

It's true wanted to stay one more year in Spain but that wasn't because he didn't want to play for the Wolves, he knew he was going to the Wolves the year after, him and everyone.

Of course everyone in Spain including himself thought he would have been drafted a bit higher but Rubio is happy to be in the Wolves.

[kurple]

How can you fault someone that young for wanting to play a certain team? Getting on the right team, being comfortable and developing right is worth millions.

how would the draft go if players got to chose where to play?

[AintNoSunshine]

Yes it's annoying as fukk, small market teams stay sukking even though they have the lottery year after year

[KrizMiz]

Watch the Lakers get the #1 overall pick and ruin Exum's plan on being a Laker.:lol

this would be the best thing ever to happen

[ZenMaster]

how does Rubio fit into what you're saying?

He had a contract with Barcelona and if he left earlier Wolves would have had to pay.

It's true wanted to stay one more year in Spain but that wasn't because he didn't want to play for the Wolves, he knew he was going to the Wolves the year after, him and everyone.

Of course everyone in Spain including himself thought he would have been drafted a bit higher but Rubio is happy to be in the Wolves.

Rubio is one of the most hated prospects to ever come out of Europe.

Back when he was drafted and stayed in Spain about 90% of people on this board would call him entitled, spoiled bitch, scared, weak minded etc.
This lead into people saying he wasn't good enough for the NBA, that what people saw a few years earlier in the Olympics was a fluke.

It only goes for internationals, as in if you stay in Europe like Ricky did a year or two you are weak minded and scared. But if a college player makes a decision to stay an extra year he's "developing his game" and apparently doing something positive. It's complete hypocrisy.

[scm5]

Yes it's annoying as fukk, small market teams stay sukking even though they have the lottery year after year

OKC is a small market team and they've drafted extremely well.

NO is a small market team and they were given AD (easy pick) and traded away a possibly very bright future when they traded Nerlens for Jrue.

Cleveland AB, TT, and Waiters over a lot of better picks.

Drafting/Scouting matters a lot and it's clear that some organizations are much better drafters than others which is huge.

[3peated]

I don't know why they do this.. Only a handful of people are privileged to play and be drafted in the NBA. and they still do is complain. Even if you were drafted in a bad team just bolt after your rookie contract if thats the case


really? you don't get it? would you want to work at a job for 3 years in milwauke or cleveland if LA was an actual option for you?


there are points in people's lives/career where you have to stop just taking what you can get, and go for what you want.

[Marcus Thornton]

really? you don't get it? would you want to work at a job for 3 years in milwauke or cleveland if LA was an actual option for you?


there are points in people's lives/career where you have to stop just taking what you can get, and go for what you want.
Except the NBA is a different system than the real world so your point has little relation. You aren't always going to obtain your first options so might as well make the best of it until you can.

[ZenMaster]

Except the NBA is a different system than the real world so your point has little relation. You aren't always going to obtain your first options so might as well make the best of it until you can.

Depends on your talent level and who you are. Players have forced themselves to certain teams, they did it and their careers didn't end and as far as I know didn't get fined for it.
It's actually your point that has little relation.
Besides it's not like it happens often and is a trend, but if it happens again this year with Exum you'll se the clear cut reason why it happens once in a while.

[Lamar Odumbb]

Hate to break to Exum but if it comes to a choice between him and Embiid/Wiggins/Parker, Lakers are taking one of the latter.

I think Lakers want Embiid and then Wiggins in that order. Lakers dont need Exum if they can get Irving or Westbrook in 2016, 2017 to pair up with Wiggins or Embiid.

I wouldnt be shocked if the other GM's are hyping up Exum in order to make the number 1 and number 2 teams choose Exum so Wiggins and Embiid could drop to 2,3, or 4 pick.

[Marcus Thornton]

Depends on your talent level and who you are. Players have forced themselves to certain teams, they did it and their careers didn't end and as far as I know didn't get fined for it.
It's actually your point that has little relation.
Besides it's not like it happens often and is a trend, but if it happens again this year with Exum you'll se the clear cut reason why it happens once in a while.
So tell me, how many entry level positions have you been drafted for and how many people do you know that have also been drafted into their entry level positions?

[ZenMaster]

So tell me, how many entry level positions have you been drafted for and how many people do you know that have also been drafted into their entry level positions?

What?

[Marcus Thornton]

What?
The NBA's hiring system for entry level employees (rookies) is much different than most of the hiring systems in the world. This is what I have been trying to state this whole time. At other jobs, you apply to companies and you choose which company to work for. In the NBA, you sign up to be in the NBA and then teams decide whether they want you to play for them based on a priority system. Not the same system obviously

These draftees agree to the rules set by the NBA. They are signing up on the league's terms, not their own. It is highly unprofessional for them to try to manipulate it because they aren't working in an ideal location for a portion of their career.

[ZenMaster]

The NBA's hiring system for entry level employees (rookies) is much different than most of the hiring systems in the world. This is what I have been trying to state this whole time. At other jobs, you apply to companies and you choose which company to work for. In the NBA, you sign up to be in the NBA and then teams decide whether they want you to play for them based on a priority system. Not the same system obviously

These draftees agree to the rules set by the NBA. They are signing up on the league's terms, not their own. It is highly unprofessional for them to try to manipulate it because they aren't working in an ideal location for a portion of their career.

I know that those are the rules, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. You talk as if this system, totally unique from the rest of the world, is set in stone, which it isn't.
There's a good chance there will be a hard cap within ten years, and they are starting to come up with alternative ideas for draft positioning.
Again, winning a prize for deliberately lowering the quality of basketball within the league is utterly stupid. There is no other sports league in the world where teams contend in losing as much as the NBA, it's a joke.
"well the bad teams need good players" - it's a noble idea, but all the rules on free agency has made rookie contracts the most valuable in the league so teams have figured out they need to suck on purpose. The wheel is a good idea compared to the mess you have now.

You will never get me to believe that it's generally smart to force kids/young adults to live certain places and be forced into certain team situations.

But it's not a trend, it happens just so every once in a while. Kobe did it also for the Lakers which they're talking about could be happening with Exum now.
Only reason it happens is because Lakers is that much more of a desired situation for a guy like Exum.
Usually it's not worth giving up millions of dollars to go to Milwaukee instead of Cleveland or Charlotte. But just every once in a while you'll have the greatest team in all of basketball in contention for a good talent through the draft, and those rare times it might happen.

[ZenMaster]

BOSTON -- Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey said the NBA's method for assigning draft picks needs an overhaul.

"We have to get rid of the marginal incentive to lose," Morey said Friday at the annual Sloan Conference on sports analytics at MIT.

The NBA places non-playoff teams into a weighted lottery -- worse teams getting better odds of a higher pick -- so accusations of teams tanking to get a higher selection have long been a part the league's culture. As the highly anticipated 2014 draft approaches, those murmurs have increased.

Morey finds the speculation justified.

"It's bad right now," Morey said. "I think last year, at the end of the season, I counted like two-thirds of the teams weren't trying to win."

Morey said several potential solutions exist, specifically noting the wheel created by Boston Celtics assistant general manager Michael Zarren.

The wheel assigns each draft choice to each of the NBA's teams over every 30-year span. The picks are rotated so each team receive a top-six pick every five years and at least one top-12 pick every four years.

Other popular solutions include eliminating protected draft picks and abolishing the draft entirely, allowing rookies to enter the league as free agents.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10532617/houston-rockets-gm-daryl-morey-wants-nba-draft-order-overhaul

[Shade8780]

I hate that crap too. Kobe, Steve Francis, Danny Ferry, John Elway, especially Eli Manning (I'm a Chargers fan). I wish they'd do a 3 year ban at least. I was honestly scared Blake Griffin would pull that crap when the Clippers won the lottery.
You guys got Rivers instead though.

Rivers > Eli

[Marcus Thornton]

I know that those are the rules, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. You talk as if this system, totally unique from the rest of the world, is set in stone, which it isn't.
There's a good chance there will be a hard cap within ten years, and they are starting to come up with alternative ideas for draft positioning.
Again, winning a prize for deliberately lowering the quality of basketball within the league is utterly stupid. There is no other sports league in the world where teams contend in losing as much as the NBA, it's a joke.
"well the bad teams need good players" - it's a noble idea, but all the rules on free agency has made rookie contracts the most valuable in the league so teams have figured out they need to suck on purpose. The wheel is a good idea compared to the mess you have now.

You will never get me to believe that it's generally smart to force kids/young adults to live certain places and be forced into certain team situations.

But it's not a trend, it happens just so every once in a while. Kobe did it also for the Lakers which they're talking about could be happening with Exum now.
Only reason it happens is because Lakers is that much more of a desired situation for a guy like Exum.
Usually it's not worth giving up millions of dollars to go to Milwaukee instead of Cleveland or Charlotte. But just every once in a while you'll have the greatest team in all of basketball in contention for a good talent through the draft, and those rare times it might happen.
I am not advocating that the system is perfect or that you should like it. I am saying that the draftees should respect the system because that's what they are signing up for. The system is the ruling, no if and buts until it is changed.

My opinion isn't that the system is perfect. My opinion is that draftees who want to be in the NBA should not try to undermine the system by refusing to play if they are drafted to a less desirable franchise. That's just unprofessional and disrespectful to those not drafted.

[Yankstar]

TBH this player knows what he wants and recognises the class of a franchise. I am liking him more and more. This alpha display of demanding to be on the Lakers reminds me of young Kobe.

http://kingsrowe.com/blog/sites/default/files/Kobe-Bryant-No-8-Los-Angeles-Lakers.jpg

[ZenMaster]

I am not advocating that the system is perfect or that you should like it. I am saying that the draftees should respect the system because that's what they are signing up for. The system is the ruling, no if and buts until it is changed.

My opinion isn't that the system is perfect. My opinion is that draftees who want to be in the NBA should not try to undermine the system by refusing to play if they are drafted to a less desirable franchise. That's just unprofessional and disrespectful to those not drafted.

But if there are no punishment for doing it isn't it also a part of the system then?
Players who force themselves to a certain team sacrifices money at least for the rookie contract, it comes at a price and with risk.

What about college players who stay for 2nd and 3rd year even though they could be drafted already, are they disrespecting other college players who don't have that oppourtunity?

[ZenMaster]

TBH this player knows what he wants and recognises the class of a franchise. I am liking him more and more. This alpha display of demanding to be on the Lakers reminds me of young Kobe.

http://kingsrowe.com/blog/sites/default/files/Kobe-Bryant-No-8-Los-Angeles-Lakers.jpg

Lakers are the Real Madrid of basketball, it's an honor to play in forum blue and yellow.

I think it's realistic we get the 3rd or 4th pick, and Exum could be the best prospect there.

This guy is made for the new age NBA rules, good size for his position, good first step and good at changing pace. There's a fluidity in his movement that looks very promising, would love for him to work with Kobe and Nash for at least a year.

[Marcus Thornton]

But if there are no punishment for doing it isn't it also a part of the system then?
Players who force themselves to a certain team sacrifices money at least for the rookie contract, it comes at a price and with risk.

What about college players who stay for 2nd and 3rd year even though they could be drafted already, are they disrespecting other college players who don't have that oppourtunity?
Well if the player refuses to play, the team decides to keep his draft rights. Although that's not a league decision punishment, it hurts the player more than the team. This most likely won't happen though because teams would rather not waste an asset. Still, it's the principle that these guys should be mature enough to at least keep to their word. They can always head to their desired team in free agency.

I don't feel that college situation is the same. Those players stay to develop more and they are encouraged by the colleges to stay longer. It's not the same as flat out not playing for a team because you don't want to be on that team.

[Jameerthefear]

Are people really arguing that this would be a good thing? What if all the stars were just like "**** it I want to play for a big market team."? The small semblance of parity in the NBA would be ruined.

[ZenMaster]

Well if the player refuses to play, the team decides to keep his draft rights. Although that's not a league decision punishment, it hurts the player more than the team. This most likely won't happen though because teams would rather not waste an asset. Still, it's the principle that these guys should be mature enough to at least keep to their word. They can always head to their desired team in free agency.

I don't feel that college situation is the same. Those players stay to develop more and they are encouraged by the colleges to stay longer. It's not the same as flat out not playing for a team because you don't want to be on that team.

I'd rather see more cases like Kobe who's stayed with the same team all his career. Home grown long term players are good for teams.

I know the college situation isn't the same, but it's the next level on the slope of arguing that players should accept whatever because others don't have the same chance.
I'm with Stan Van Gundy on this one, let them come in as free agents. Would be much better for the level of basketball.

[SillyRabbit]

Steve Francis single-handedly cost Vancouver their NBA franchise.

"Stevie Franchise-Killer."

[kobebeangoat]

Exum's best fit in the NBA longterm is as a PG so being the understudy to Kobe doesn't make a ton of sense. Jabari Parker easily makes the most sense since he's the best scorer in this draft by far and could play with Kobe for a year or two before taking over once Kobe retires.

Kobe in general has the best basketball IQ of any player still around. He could teach Jabari a ton about when to score, when to pass, how to approach different teams, how to be a leader, etc.
:applause:

[Marcus Thornton]

I'd rather see more cases like Kobe who's stayed with the same team all his career. Home grown long term players are good for teams.

I know the college situation isn't the same, but it's the next level on the slope of arguing that players should accept whatever because others don't have the same chance.
I'm with Stan Van Gundy on this one, let them come in as free agents. Would be much better for the level of basketball.
Ok, so you like players. I prefer competitive balance where the rich cannot as easily get richer while the poor are stuck in a pit.

No draft mean less assets. Deals would less likely go down because draft picks are good strategic assets that add no salary in trades.

[ZenMaster]

Ok, so you like players. I prefer competitive balance where the rich cannot as easily get richer while the poor are stuck in a pit.

No draft mean less assets. Deals would less likely go down because draft picks are good strategic assets that add no salary in trades.

Like I said, having them come in as free agents with a hard cap works without problems.

You're arguing for a model that condones losing, competing to win is a core staple of sports.

[Marcus Thornton]

Like I said, having them come in as free agents with a hard cap works without problems.

You're arguing for a model that condones losing, competing to win is a core staple of sports.
And you are supporting a model that will lead to top teams constantly getting the best prospects while the worst teams get the worse ones. Your idea wouldn't be making the quality of the NBA outside of the top any better.

[ZenMaster]

And you are supporting a model that will lead to top teams constantly getting the best prospects while the worst teams get the worse ones. Your idea wouldn't be making the quality of the NBA outside of the top any better.

Wrong. I've mentioned how you get more internationals to replace about 10-20% of the American scrubs, and you just said "I wont get into that".
But it matters for the quality of the league.

You're delusional if you think a guy like Andrew Wiggins would give up millions so he could sit on the bench behind Lebron. Same with thinking the top of an entire draft class would sign with the same team.
Just because new players would enter the league as free agents doesn't mean they'd throw A LOT of money and playing time down the drain.

[red1]

Silver needs to reel these foreign scumbags in. They think they can get away with whatever they want? If they try to pull this shit then just ship them back to their minor leagues.

[Kiddlovesnets]

lol you forget Yi, he was like refusing to play for the bucks when he was drafted, though eventually he softened and settled in Milwaukee.

[Marcus Thornton]

Wrong. I've mentioned how you get more internationals to replace about 10-20% of the American scrubs, and you just said "I wont get into that".
But it matters for the quality of the league.

You're delusional if you think a guy like Andrew Wiggins would give up millions so he could sit on the bench behind Lebron. Same with thinking the top of an entire draft class would sign with the same team.
Just because new players would enter the league as free agents doesn't mean they'd throw A LOT of money and playing time down the drain.
And you are delusional if you think that he'd would not go to the Clippers or the Suns, who both need a 3. There are more than one top team you know. While at the bottom halves, we see teams staying bad and having little chance aside from hitting a home run in free agency. Like i said before, taking away the draft makes deals more forced, less strategic, and less exciting.

We are talking about athletes, people who usually want to be on winning teams. You dont think they want to go on a good team to get the spotlight instead of a bottom team that has much fewer overall exposure to the national scene. Also, those guys can always go somewhere else for a ton of money if they wanted to after their rookie contract.

I don't see anywhere in the last couple if posts about international players. And not every international player wants to be in the NBA.

[ZenMaster]

And you are delusional if you think that he'd would not go to the Clippers or the Suns, who both need a 3. There are more than one top team you know. While at the bottom halves, we see teams staying bad and having little chance aside from hitting a home run in free agency. Like i said before, taking away the draft makes deals more forced, less strategic, and less exciting.

We are talking about athletes, people who usually want to be on winning teams. You dont think they want to go on a good team to get the spotlight instead of a bottom team that has much fewer overall exposure to the national scene. Also, those guys can always go somewhere else for a ton of money if they wanted to after their rookie contract.

I don't see anywhere in the last couple if posts about international players. And not every international player wants to be in the NBA.

Every team would still have a salary cap so there are still restrictions on how many players a single team could actually pay for.

We see teams staying bad now for multiple years untill they hit a home run in the draft. It's no different from the end result you're proposing with them comming in as free agents.
The only reason you're defending the system they have now is because it's all you've seen and is used to it. If you made a new sports league today and gave teams incentive to lose you'd ask WTF is this?

Like I said before, not having teams losing basketball games on purpose makes the league better and more exciting.

[Marcus Thornton]

Every team would still have a salary cap so there are still restrictions on how many players a single team could actually pay for.

We see teams staying bad now for multiple years untill they hit a home run in the draft. It's no different from the end result you're proposing with them comming in as free agents.
The only reason you're defending the system they have now is because it's all you've seen and is used to it. If you made a new sports league today and gave teams incentive to lose you'd ask WTF is this?
Rookie exceptions. No way the NBA goes without them.

Homeruns in drafts are not as hard as from free agency. Not many free agents want to go to a struggling team. The only reason you are arguing for a free agency system is because you are a Lakers fan and your franchise doesn't have to worry about not landing free agents like smaller market teams. Bet your stance would be different if you are a Magic fan.

[longtime lurker]

God people crying about this shit again? What like 5 prospects have refused to play for the team that drafts them and its a big deal? Here's an idea, either the teams draft the player or just draft someone else :confusedshrug: who really gives a fvck. If a player wants to potentially lose money that's their perogative

[ZenMaster]

Rookie exceptions. No way the NBA goes without them.

Homeruns in drafts are not as hard as from free agency. Not many free agents want to go to a struggling team. The only reason you are arguing for a free agency system is because you are a Lakers fan and your franchise doesn't have to worry about not landing free agents like smaller market teams. Bet your stance would be different if you are a Magic fan.

Is Stan Van Gundy a Laker fan?

I am arguing for a free agency system because that's what I belive will produce the most exciting basketball from top to bottom.

I can't belive with all the different arguments I've presented you boil it down to "it's because you're a Laker fan", come on man.

Either if it's a draft system or a free agent system there aren't any real homeruns, GM's have to know their shit to create good teams and contend.
Cleveland got Lebron, no titles and he left. Pelicans just got Anthony Davis, they won't even make the playoffs. Clippers got Griffin, didn't get good until they traded for free agent to be Chris Paul.

A free agency system doesn't mean that players don't bust. You try and be the New York Knick GM who gave a rookie 15 mill a year for the first 4 years because of his potential and the guys ends up riding the pine.

[Marcus Thornton]

Is Stan Van Gundy a Laker fan?

I am arguing for a free agency system because that's what I belive will produce the most exciting basketball from top to bottom.

I can't belive with all the different arguments I've presented you boil it down to "it's because you're a Laker fan", come on man.

Either if it's a draft system or a free agent system there aren't any real homeruns, GM's have to know their shit to create good teams and contend.
Cleveland got Lebron, no titles and he left. Pelicans just got Anthony Davis, they won't even make the playoffs. Clippers got Griffin, didn't get good until they traded for free agent to be Chris Paul.

A free agency system doesn't mean that players don't bust. You try and be the New York Knick GM who gave a rookie 15 mill a year for the first 4 years because of his potential and the guys ends up riding the pine.
I didn't say that all supporters are Laker fans now did I?

And I have given counter points to your arguments. I've stated that the top rookies would rather go to the playoff or bound teams, which is what can happen with a rookie free agent system. Don't make my one personal attack that was used to match the one thrown by you the only important statement in my case for staying with the current system over the FA system.

And it's true that GMs need to be savvy to create good teams, but they need building blocks to do it. You think the Paul resigns for the Clips without Blake? Did OKC not rebuild through the draft? High draft picks aren't supposed to turn the franchise around, but to give them a chance to have some talent to build around.

[ZenMaster]

I didn't say that all supporters are Laker fans now did I?

And I have given counter points to your arguments. I've stated that the top rookies would rather go to the playoff or bound teams, which is what can happen with a rookie free agent system. Don't make my one personal attack that was used to match the one thrown by you the only important statement in my case for staying with the current system over the FA system.

And it's true that GMs need to be savvy to create good teams, but they need building blocks to do it. You think the Paul resigns for the Clips without Blake? Did OKC not rebuild through the draft? High draft picks aren't supposed to turn the franchise around, but to give them a chance to have some talent to build around.

No but you said the only reason I want this is because I'm a Laker fan, that's insulting my intelligence.
Stan Van Gundy supports rookie free agency, what's his reason? If even by the arguments I've given you just boil it down to me thinking about this from a simple sided mind as fan of a single team, then I'd like to know what you think Van Gundys reasons are for supporting the same claim?

Again, with a hard salary cap there is a maximum of what teams can pay players. If you think a rookie gives up 10, 5 or even 2 million a year got multiple years to play on a current playoff team you're wrong. The playoff teams change every year, players know that starting on a non-playoff team and help making it a playoff team is a challenge that can be accomplished. The reason they know this is because they know their talent and they are in fact themselves the building blocks of a team.

This effect, along with the extra internationals and the bonus of many more players being happy and motivated because they're in situations they themselves picked.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Silver needs to reel these foreign scumbags in. They think they can get away with whatever they want? If they try to pull this shit then just ship them back to their minor leagues.

Toronto :coleman:

[red1]

Toronto :coleman:

The Basketball Association of America was founded in 1946 by owners of the major ice hockey arenas in the Northeastern and Midwestern United States and Canada. On November 1, 1946, in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, the Toronto Huskies hosted the New York Knickerbockers at Maple Leaf Gardens, in a game the NBA now regards as the first played in its history.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_Association

yes, I just used wikipedia as my source :pimp:

[red1]

No wonder the great jerry west is complaining about the state of the league. As if we didnt have enough local scumbags to deal with, now we got these foreign scumbags thinking that they call the shots. I say ship em out

[IGOTGAME]

I am not advocating that the system is perfect or that you should like it. I am saying that the draftees should respect the system because that's what they are signing up for. The system is the ruling, no if and buts until it is changed.

My opinion isn't that the system is perfect. My opinion is that draftees who want to be in the NBA should not try to undermine the system by refusing to play if they are drafted to a less desirable franchise. That's just unprofessional and disrespectful to those not drafted.
What they are doing is part of the system. They aren't stopping any one from drafting them. They are just acting in what they perceive is their best interest, something that all some systems presuppose.

[Marcus Thornton]

No but you said the only reason I want this is because I'm a Laker fan, that's insulting my intelligence.
Stan Van Gundy supports rookie free agency, what's his reason? If even by the arguments I've given you just boil it down to me thinking about this from a simple sided mind as fan of a single team, then I'd like to know what you think Van Gundys reasons are for supporting the same claim?

Again, with a hard salary cap there is a maximum of what teams can pay players. If you think a rookie gives up 10, 5 or even 2 million a year got multiple years to play on a current playoff team you're wrong. The playoff teams change every year, players know that starting on a non-playoff team and help making it a playoff team is a challenge that can be accomplished. The reason they know this is because they know their talent and they are in fact themselves the building blocks of a team.

This effect, along with the extra internationals and the bonus of many more players being happy and motivated because they're in situations they themselves picked.
Well you were disregarding my points because the current rookie system is all I've seen and I'm used to it. You don't think I took offense to that?

I don't care for his stance because I haven't seen any reasoning from him as to why it would work. He can state all his ideas he wants, but if his reasons and effects of his ideas aren't fleshed out, I can't debate about it. Just because a prominent figure advocates for it, doesn't mean it is always a good idea. So unless you can bring a primary source that states on why he thinks a free agent rookie system can work, I'm not going to go guessing what they are.

So let's say we had this free agent system implemented at the time when the 2012 draft would have occurred. You telling me that Anthony Davis wouldn't go onto the Heat, which was in need of better big men? Sure there could be a hard salary cap, but GMs will want rookie exceptions. No GM would want a bidding war over rookies. Also, some teams aren't attractive to players. You think good rookies would want to go to place like Toronto, Boston, or Minnesota? Those places have terrible and unenjoyable weather throughout the regular season. Why go there unless you are forced to or if you like it there for some crazy reason?

Playoffs teams change season by season, but bringing in a good rookie can keep them in it.