Are Westbrook and Durant redundant?

[bdreason]

When Wade and LeBron came together, the biggest question was, are these guys redundant? Both players seemingly needed the ball in the their hands to be effective, and people questioned whether it would work. In hindsight, LeBron and Wade have admitted that their games were redundant, and that eventually Wade needed to fill a different role to make it work.

With Westbrook and Durant, I feel there has always been questions about team leadership and Westbrook dominating the ball, but I don't think we've ever really questioned if their games were redundant. The assumption seemed to be that Durant's game was good enough off-the-ball to allow Westbrook to do his thing... but after seeing Durant as the vocal point of the offense, I'm not sure that's the case. Maybe Durant does need to have the ball in his hands for this Thunder team to reach their potential.

[BigMacAttack]

Both amazing players so they can work together but Westbrook gotta defer to KD now, KD needs to be a clear 1st option, im not sure if Russ can handle that.

Like ive said a couple times, if OKC cant get it done you gotta look at what you can get for Russ.

[Andrei89]

Both amazing players so they can work together but Westbrook gotta defer to KD now, KD needs to be a clear 1st option, im not sure if Russ can handle that.

Like ive said a couple times, if OKC cant get it done you gotta look at what you can get for Russ.


Well, right now, for example, I am almost sure the Thunder would get the Nr 1 pick for Westbrook.

Imagine Thunder getting Embiid. At the same time, any team that holds the Nr 1 pick would be amazingly stupid to pass out on Westbrook.

[VIntageNOvel]

OKC will regret no trading WB

goatbrook is too much alpha,
his presence alone already make durant insecure
he even missed his FT :facepalm

[KD35willbeGOAT]

Well, right now, for example, I am almost sure the Thunder would get the Nr 1 pick for Westbrook.

Imagine Thunder getting Embiid. At the same time, any team that holds the Nr 1 pick would be amazingly stupid to pass out on Westbrook.

KD is just about ready for his peak and you want to trade a top 10 player for a big men with potential? Really? That's an awful idea, in my opinion. Also, let's remember that KD is an excellent player off the ball. He doesn't need the ball in his hands to score. He's excellent coming off of screens and catch and shoot situations are his bread and butter. Whereas Westbrook is the ball dominant player, and so, it works. However, when the Heat came together, both Wade and Bron were ball dominant for their respective teams. Thus, the need for adjustment.

[red1]

okc isnt winning shit without both players

[Lamar Odumbb]

OKC reminds me so much of the 97-99 Lakers. So much talent but the coach always looks lost.

They should try to get Jeff Van Gundy or make Phil Jackson the richest coach in sports history and give him 1 % ownership like MIami did with Riley.

[Anfernee]

OKC reminds me so much of the 97-99 Lakers. So much talent but the coach always looks lost.

They should try to get Jeff Van Gundy or make Phil Jackson the richest coach in sports history and give him 1 % ownership like MIami did with Riley.

This.

[IGOTGAME]

A team will never win with Durant dominating the ball. He is a not a good enough playmaker.

[SamuraiSWISH]

OKC will regret no trading WB

goatbrook is too much alpha,
his presence alone already make durant insecure
I feel this way too. I've always felt they needed a traditional, level headed, non spastic emotional leader from the point guard position, maybe a post player too. Trade him while his value is high. With the ball in Durant's hands more OKC looked better. Or at least off the ball without Russ eating into his touches and shots. Westbrick being out Made KD improve as a playmaker. They still need a legit second option but these conflict one another. Westbrick being the weak link. And unlike other Alpha / Alpha tandems who got it done because they were just too good even with a conflict of superiority (Bron / Wade, Shaq / Kobe) He feels different in terms of swagger or confidence when Westbrick isn't out there. He goes from Slim Reaper to The Servant

:facepalm

[imdaman99]

No, they aren't. The rest of the team needs Russ more than they need Durant. Yeah sure, Durant had a nice amazing stretch without him. But does anyone think Lebron doesn't light him up last night if Goatbrook doesn't play?

Let's all be prisoners of the moment and forget the Thunder were near unbeatable before Goatbrook had his last surgery. It's not his fault he wants to come back while others would rather eat skittles on the bench of playoff games.

Goatbrook is a mismatch for 9 out of 10 PGs in the league. He is not the problem, believe dat.

[LONGTIME]

OKC needs a coaching change more than anything else. It's amazing the pass that Scott Brooks gets.

[Kblaze8855]

West and Baylor needed the ball. Shaq and Kobe. Bird and Mchale. Magic and Kareem...

Two guys being attackers doesnt mean they cant coexist. The rest of the team just has to fall into line. Im not sure the Thunder would be better with a pass first point. Russell has won them a hell of a lot of games the last 4 years. Including the playoffs.

[FKAri]

A team will never win with Durant dominating the ball. He is a not a good enough playmaker.

and Westbrook is?

[Milbuck]

and Westbrook is?
Yes. Did you watch the OKC games this season before WB went down again?

[All Net]

West and Baylor needed the ball. Shaq and Kobe. Bird and Mchale. Magic and Kareem...

Two guys being attackers doesnt mean they cant coexist. The rest of the team just has to fall into line. Im not sure the Thunder would be better with a pass first point. Russell has won them a hell of a lot of games the last 4 years. Including the playoffs.

Yep

They need each other to win

Just like LeBron isn't winning anything without Wade. You can't win on your own.

[Ken_Masters]

Why does Indiana build their team specifically to defeat Miami but OKC does not? It doesn't make sense to me. They should be making trades and acquiring players with the idea in mind to take out Miami. Miami is the only team standing in their way.

[LONGTIME]

Why does Indiana build their team specifically to defeat Miami but OKC does not? It doesn't make sense to me. They should be making trades and acquiring players with the idea in mind to take out Miami. Miami is the only team standing in their way.

Because OKC plays in the West while the Pacers play in the East and they have to go through Miami to get to the Finals OKC doesn't. Miami is the back to back defending Champions, but their not guaranteed 100% to make the Finals. Shit happens injuries happen. It's not smart to build your team to specifically defeat any one team when you may not even meet them.

[ArbitraryWater]

Right. 2nd Best Team in 2012, perhaps would have been last year without the Injury... they can coexist clearly.

People forget how great Russ has been for them

[ArbitraryWater]

Yep

They need each other to win

Just like LeBron isn't winning anything without Wade. You can't win on your own.

I'm pretty sure Bron could have won without Wade last year just fine. Those 16 ppg in the playoffs could be replaced by any all star... Cant say the same for a top 10 player in Westbrook.

[oarabbus]

and Westbrook is?


Yes... assists aren't a 1:1 correlation with playmaking, but WB had a streak of 8-10 assist games. For a while.

[comerb]

I've always believed OKC would be significantly more dangerous if Westbook played a little more of a true PG and averaged around 10 assists a game while taking 3-5 less shots... which is definitely something he's capable of if he chose to do so.

But...

Westbrook isn't the type to change though, that dude ain't changing for shit.

[Doranku]

No. Did you watch the Thunder earlier this season when Westbrook and Durant were healthy? Westbrook was a top 5 MVP candidate while Durant was still getting his 28 a game.

This thread was obviously prompted by the loss yesterday to Miami which makes no sense as it's only WB's first game back. Look what happened to OKC without Westbrook last year in the playoffs? They went from being a heavily favored finalist to being embarrassed by the Grizzlies.

[LONGTIME]

I've always believed OKC would be significantly more dangerous if Westbook played a little more of a true PG and averaged around 10 assists a game while taking 3-5 less shots... which is definitely something he's capable of if he chose to do so.

But...

Westbrook isn't the type to change though, that dude ain't changing for shit.

OKC will not win a Championship if he doesn't change. Their fools gold until then.

[Replay32]

No. Did you watch the Thunder earlier this season when Westbrook and Durant were healthy? Westbrook was a top 5 MVP candidate while Durant was still getting his 28 a game.

This thread was obviously prompted by the loss yesterday to Miami which makes no sense as it's only WB's first game back. Look what happened to OKC without Westbrook last year in the playoffs? They went from being a heavily favored finalist to being embarrassed by the Grizzlies.

This

[Nash]

Two different situations. Durant is not as good of a playmaker as Lebron and Westbrook is younger than Wade and still reaching his peak. Also Durant is much better shooter than Lebron is which means he can work better off the ball.

What worked for Lebron and Wade doesn't necessarily has to work for these guys. They should work on finding a way because they are both amazing players.

[NumberSix]

No. 1 is an alpha, the other is a βετα

[Thunderstruck]

I've always believed OKC would be significantly more dangerous if Westbook played a little more of a true PG and averaged around 10 assists a game while taking 3-5 less shots... which is definitely something he's capable of if he chose to do so.

But...

Westbrook isn't the type to change though, that dude ain't changing for shit.
He average 9.2 assists per game while averaging less shot attemps the last 10 games before he went down, while leading the Thunder to the best record in the NBA. He was playing the best ball of his career. Pay attention to the league boy.

[navy]

He average 9.2 assists per game while averaging less shot attemps the last 10 games before he went down, while leading the Thunder to the best record in the NBA. He was playing the best ball of his career. Pay attention to the league boy.
Westbrook's shot chart was atrocious, so no it wasnt the best.

http://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/russ1152.jpg?w=510&h=401


The reality is Westbrook and Durant are so good they can play however they want and Scott Brooks can coach however he wants and the Thunder will basically be guaranteed a finals spot. The only matchup the have a problem with is the Heat, which is Perkins, Ibaka, and whoever else is on the front line's fault.

[Thunderstruck]

Westbrook's shot chart was atrocious, so no it wasnt the best.

http://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/russ1152.jpg?w=510&h=401


The reality is Westbrook and Durant are so good they can play however they want and Scott Brooks can coach however he wants and the Thunder will basically be guaranteed a finals spot. The only matchup the have a problem with is the Heat, which is Perkins, Ibaka, and whoever else is on the front line's fault.

That shot chart says absolutely nothing. It doesn't even say what games they were taken from. You can't post a picture of a shot chart from who knows when and use it as evidence for you argument.

[navy]

That shot chart says absolutely nothing. It doesn't even say what games they were taken from. You can't post a picture of a shot chart from who knows when and use it as evidence for you argument.
It is from this season. I should have posted the article, which was overly critical in my opinion. http://grantland.com/the-triangle/russell-westbrook-the-point-and-the-counterpoint/