Lebron with a 25/8/7 performance, games like this is why he's the GOAT right?

[STATUTORY]

according to his fans at least. This was the prototypical lebron performance, a lot of fanfare, hype, build up, but ultimately all we are left with is a broken promise, empty stats, and a lot of stans holding their flaccid d!ck.

I have always said that Lebron is the ultimate front runner, the guy performs extremely well when his team is balling. He's able to feed off the energy of his teammates and snowball out of control. But when his team is struggling and need him to be the catalyst or the spark to ignite the comeback or to carry the team? he can only take what the defense :"gives him"

he absolutely DOES NOT have the ability to impose his will on the game. and it's not a function of his mentality, it's a lack of ability.

When you can't get a shot off in every circumstance, you are not on that MJ and Kobe stratosphere. Real talk

[rhowen4]

lebron is literally worse than a million hitlers

[Mr. Jabbar]

When you can't get a shot off in every circumstance, you are not on that MJ and Kobe stratosphere. Real talk

beautiful words :applause:

lebron has shit load of talent, no1 denies it (ban insurance), but he doesnt come up as a big game changer too often like he should, he sort of racks up great stats with the flow of the game.

there is a reason kids imitate jordan dunks and kobe fadeaways but when it comes to bran they do the lebronin

[G-Funk]

real talk

[Milbuck]

according to his fans at least. This was the prototypical lebron performance, a lot of fanfare, hype, build up, but ultimately all we are left with is a broken promise, empty stats, and a lot of stans holding their flaccid d!ck.

I have always said that Lebron is the ultimate front runner, the guy performs extremely well when his team is balling. He's able to feed off the energy of his teammates and snowball out of control. But when his team is struggling and need him to be the catalyst or the spark to ignite the comeback or to carry the team? he can only take what the defense :"gives him"

he absolutely DOES NOT have the ability to impose his will on the game. and it's not a function of his mentality, it's a lack of ability.

When you can't get a shot off in every circumstance, you are not on that MJ and Kobe stratosphere. Real talk

So ****ing eloquent :applause:

[Cold soul]

according to his fans at least. This was the prototypical lebron performance, a lot of fanfare, hype, build up, but ultimately all we are left with is a broken promise, empty stats, and a lot of stans holding their flaccid d!ck.

I have always said that Lebron is the ultimate front runner, the guy performs extremely well when his team is balling. He's able to feed off the energy of his teammates and snowball out of control. But when his team is struggling and need him to be the catalyst or the spark to ignite the comeback or to carry the team? he can only take what the defense :"gives him"

he absolutely DOES NOT have the ability to impose his will on the game. and it's not a function of his mentality, it's a lack of ability.

When you can't get a shot off in every circumstance, you are not on that MJ and Kobe stratosphere. Real talk

Lebron is a beta we all know this.

[BlazerRed]

according to his fans at least. This was the prototypical lebron performance, a lot of fanfare, hype, build up, but ultimately all we are left with is a broken promise, empty stats, and a lot of stans holding their flaccid d!ck.

I have always said that Lebron is the ultimate front runner, the guy performs extremely well when his team is balling. He's able to feed off the energy of his teammates and snowball out of control. But when his team is struggling and need him to be the catalyst or the spark to ignite the comeback or to carry the team? he can only take what the defense :"gives him"

he absolutely DOES NOT have the ability to impose his will on the game. and it's not a function of his mentality, it's a lack of ability.

When you can't get a shot off in every circumstance, you are not on that MJ and Kobe stratosphere. Real talk

So poetic :applause:

[navy]

Having fun?

[asdf1990]

his greatest games in the playoffs have come when his team is trailing tho?

[red1]

The delusion of kobe stans is unreal. :lol They have to create fictional narratives because everything tangible points otherwise. Bronzy doesnt have the jumpshot like that but he is still the better playoffs/4th quarter player because he does literally evrything else better

[Milbuck]

only fakkits posting in this thread:biggums:

Welcome aboard :dancin :party: :djparty :hammertime: :banana:

[VIntageNOvel]

according to his fans at least. This was the prototypical lebron performance, a lot of fanfare, hype, build up, but ultimately all we are left with is a broken promise, empty stats, and a lot of stans holding their flaccid d!ck.

I have always said that Lebron is the ultimate front runner, the guy performs extremely well when his team is balling. He's able to feed off the energy of his teammates and snowball out of control. But when his team is struggling and need him to be the catalyst or the spark to ignite the comeback or to carry the team? he can only take what the defense :"gives him"

he absolutely DOES NOT have the ability to impose his will on the game. and it's not a function of his mentality, it's a lack of ability.

When you can't get a shot off in every circumstance, you are not on that MJ and Kobe stratosphere. Real talk

is there any post more beautiful than this :applause:
even though it come sort in quantity, its comparable to the lion essay

[BlazerRed]

Welcome aboard :dancin :party: :djparty :hammertime: :banana:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Leftimage]

according to his fans at least. This was the prototypical lebron performance, a lot of fanfare, hype, build up, but ultimately all we are left with is a broken promise, empty stats, and a lot of stans holding their flaccid d!ck.

I have always said that Lebron is the ultimate front runner, the guy performs extremely well when his team is balling. He's able to feed off the energy of his teammates and snowball out of control. But when his team is struggling and need him to be the catalyst or the spark to ignite the comeback or to carry the team? he can only take what the defense :"gives him"

he absolutely DOES NOT have the ability to impose his will on the game. and it's not a function of his mentality, it's a lack of ability.

When you can't get a shot off in every circumstance, you are not on that MJ and Kobe stratosphere. Real talk

You making a thread to talk about his 25 8 7 performance is why he is goat.

[rip2]

according to his fans at least. This was the prototypical lebron performance, a lot of fanfare, hype, build up, but ultimately all we are left with is a broken promise, empty stats, and a lot of stans holding their flaccid d!ck.

I have always said that Lebron is the ultimate front runner, the guy performs extremely well when his team is balling. He's able to feed off the energy of his teammates and snowball out of control. But when his team is struggling and need him to be the catalyst or the spark to ignite the comeback or to carry the team? he can only take what the defense :"gives him"

he absolutely DOES NOT have the ability to impose his will on the game. and it's not a function of his mentality, it's a lack of ability.

When you can't get a shot off in every circumstance, you are not on that MJ and Kobe stratosphere. Real talk
my man :applause: :applause:
only if I could use my ripthekik account to enter this thread, it would be an honor

[ArbitraryWater]

Well the haters are having fun :hammerhead:

[Droid101]

LeBron fans are the worst. Seriously.

If Kobe had said "I'm coming out and I'm going to get crazy stats tonight" and he didn't beat his season averages, they would be howling for hours about how Kobe is garbage.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

LeBron fans are the worst. Seriously.

If Kobe had said "I'm coming out and I'm going to get crazy stats tonight" and he didn't beat his season averages, they would be howling for hours about how Kobe is garbage.
hypotheticals

[Droid101]

hypotheticals
..very true...

Because no normal player in their right mind would come out before a game and say he's going to put up huge stats this game. None. Name one who has ever done it before. No other NBA player is that stupid.

[sportjames23]

Welcome aboard :dancin :party: :djparty :hammertime: :banana:

Ether. :oldlol:

[plowking]

He had a bad game, and people act like its the end of the world because he said some shit before the game.

What happens if he averages 35/8/8 over the next 5?

[Marlo_Stanfield]

He had a bad game, and people act like its the end of the world because he said some shit before the game.

What happens if he averages 35/8/8 over the next 5?
he will, book it
he tried to force it tonight in the beginning+ the pathetic defense of the Heat and that 30 point deficit was just to much to overcome. i guess its to much to ask for that the Heat play consistent defense again with all them old ass players:coleman:

[SamuraiSWISH]

..very true...

Because no normal player in their right mind would come out before a game and say he's going to put up huge stats this game. None. Name one who has ever done it before. No other NBA player is that stupid.
LeBradford Smith scored a fluke 37 points on MJ one game in 1993, when MJ was uncharacteristically not closing out on a shooter. MJ was letting him shoot open jumpers. That Spurs on LeBron type defense.

Jordan, furious, playing Washington 24 hours later declared to local reporters he would score LeBradford's 37 point game total ... BY HALFTIME in their next meeting.

He failed however, only scoring 36 first half points. Not reaching LeBradford's sum total of 37 from the previous game by half time as promised.

:facepalm

[Marlo_Stanfield]

:coleman:

Calm down.
seriously :roll: :roll: :roll:
i only troll in trollthreads too:biggums:

[SeattleSonics]

It's literally just a series of alternates from one or two, maybe three people. Which makes this even more pathetic.

RG / SilkktheShocker / NumberSix / pauk ... all notorious psycho LeBron stans. It's quickly ruining these forums, none of the long time, intelligent members post anymore.

I'm pretty soon going to be following suit. This place is a wasteland for quality basketball talk.

I have lerked for years, very rarely post, but I couldn't help myself this time. This board has progressively gotten worse and worse as time goes on and this recent opening has just opened the floodgates to an avalanche of trash. Any thread with mention to Lebron/Durant/Kobe just turns into a trollfest, barely any intelligent actual discussion. Half the threads on the front page are just rubbish troll/bait threads. I'll sure as hell be visiting this place a hell of a lot less.

[SeattleSonics]

seriously :roll: :roll: :roll:
i only troll in trollthreads too:biggums:

How about wising up and being the real man who is controlled enough to ignore the jokers? "Trolling" a troll thread is like starting a fight with a disabled person.

[red1]

I have lerked for years, very rarely post, but I couldn't help myself this time. This board has progressively gotten worse and worse as time goes on and this recent opening has just opened the floodgates to an avalanche of trash. Any thread with mention to Lebron/Durant/Kobe just turns into a trollfest, barely any intelligent actual discussion. Half the threads on the front page are just rubbish troll/bait threads. I'll sure as hell be visiting this place a hell of a lot less.
talk about catching feelings:lol

[moe94]

I have lerked for years, very rarely post, but I couldn't help myself this time. This board has progressively gotten worse and worse as time goes on and this recent opening has just opened the floodgates to an avalanche of trash. Any thread with mention to Lebron/Durant/Kobe just turns into a trollfest, barely any intelligent actual discussion. Half the threads on the front page are just rubbish troll/bait threads. I'll sure as hell be visiting this place a hell of a lot less.

Why are you tripping so damn hard? It's not that serious and has been like this forever.:biggums:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Why are you tripping so damn hard? It's not that serious and has been like this forever.:biggums:
You just started posting the past few months. And your volume has been crazy. When you started posting you had minimal amount of posts, now have over 4,000 in just a month or two. With a registration date of ... 2009? The boards have progressively gotten worse since 2011. That was the tipping point for ISH's downfall.

[Mr. Jabbar]

I have lerked for years, very rarely post, but I couldn't help myself this time. This board has progressively gotten worse and worse as time goes on and this recent opening has just opened the floodgates to an avalanche of trash. Any thread with mention to Lebron/Durant/Kobe just turns into a trollfest, barely any intelligent actual discussion. Half the threads on the front page are just rubbish troll/bait threads. I'll sure as hell be visiting this place a hell of a lot less.

this is true :cheers:

its harder to find quality threds and dodge the troll ones these days, but if you have a patient you'll hit more than you miss

[SeattleSonics]

talk about catching feelings:lol
Exhibit A.

[red1]

Exhibit A.
that was the most emotional post i ever read :lol

[moe94]

You just started posting the past few months. And your volume has been crazy. When you started posting you had minimal amount of posts, now have over 4,000 in just a month or two. With a registration date of ... 2009? The boards have progressively gotten worse since 2011. That was the tipping point for ISH's downfall.

I'm sorry the utopia you have visioned that includes a cult of personality towards Jordan isn't quite the way you see it. You, of all people, have no business talking about the quality of this board. You're the dude who literally had paragraphs about Jordan's god damn pen1s. :confusedshrug:

[SamuraiSWISH]

You're the dude who literally had paragraphs about Jordan's god damn pen1s. :confusedshrug:
When?

:oldlol:

[oarabbus]

So ****ing eloquent :applause:


:roll: :roll: :roll:
I nominate Milbuck for ROY (Jan 2014 class)


When?

:oldlol:

:coleman: come on now don't try to act like you weren't defending Jordan's manhood. Literally.

[moe94]

When?

:oldlol:

Are we distinguishing paragraphs now? Are you saying it was a couple lines involving his c0ck?

You either want dude's shit all up in your mouth for real or you mess around just like everyone else. Quit being so uptight.

[talkingconch]

:roll: GOAT:roll:

[DaSeba5]

The delusion of kobe stans is unreal. :lol They have to create fictional narratives because everything tangible points otherwise. Bronzy doesnt have the jumpshot like that but he is still the better playoffs/4th quarter player because he does literally evrything else better

I love how everyone ignores this post. Another spam thread full of agenda.

[fpliii]

C'mon Team Kobe. :facepalm Aren't we above this shit?

[Indian guy]

C'mon Team Kobe. :facepalm Aren't we above this shit?

:D

There's never been a fanbase more beneath this sh!t, actually. I think they believe with enough trolling, they'll reverse time and LeBron will actually stop being better than Kobe in everybody's eyes. It's fun to watch.

[Simple Jack]

Are people that quick to forget games like Game 6 ECF against Boston? When the season is on the line (or in major pivotal games) the man has beasted out of his mind. The fact that shit like this is still brought up is laughable.

[STATUTORY]

You just started posting the past few months. And your volume has been crazy. When you started posting you had minimal amount of posts, now have over 4,000 in just a month or two. With a registration date of ... 2009? The boards have progressively gotten worse since 2011. That was the tipping point for ISH's downfall.

moe94 is most definitely an alt for some long time poster. no one makes an account in 2009 and doesn't post for like 4 years then start volume posting, the account was made as an alt and he started using it recently. I have no problem with him as a poster but them are the facts

[KobeMagic]

great numbers by LEbron. But he's still behind Durant.

[moe94]

moe94 is most definitely an alt for some long time poster. no one makes an account in 2009 and doesn't post for like 4 years then start volume posting, the account was made as an alt and he started using it recently. I have no problem with him as a poster but them are the facts

What's so hard to believe about getting back into ball after stopping for a bit?

There is a difference between facts and your paranoid opinion. Don't confuse me for some dude who has multiple accounts on a message board. Quit talking out of your ass.

[pauk]

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/9/a/9a8c1_ORIG-judge_judy_laptop_peek.gif

[Big#50]

The Goat???? He is a top ten player. No way he ever breaks top five.

[SexSymbol]

The Goat???? He is a top ten player. No way he ever breaks top five.
He's not top ten, don't try to rush thing, he'll be there, it's a given, but respect the legends that have been in the league before him

[Big#50]

He's not top ten, don't try to rush thing, he'll be there, it's a given, but respect the legends that have been in the league before him
He already is. Nostalgia has no place in my top ten list. No way there are ten players in history that are better.

[aj1987]

The Goat???? He is a top ten player. No way he ever breaks top five.
If the wins a ring this year, he's top 5-6 for sure.

4 MVP's
3 Rings
3 FMVP's

Would be hard to leave him out of the top 6.

[Big#50]

If the wins a ring this year, he's top 5-6 for sure.

4 MVP's
3 Rings
3 FMVP's

Would be hard to leave him out of the top 6.
Duncan
Shaq
Jordan
Bird
KAJ
Hakeem
Will always be ahead of him in my list. Accolades aside, he is not better than any of these guys.

[Magic 32]

If the wins a ring this year, he's top 5-6 for sure.

4 MVP's
3 Rings
3 FMVP's

Would be hard to leave him out of the top 6.

Even if he wins...

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Magic
6. Bird

[Big#50]

Even if he wins...

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Magic
6. Bird
He is better than Magic. Wilt and Russell should not be in anyone's top ten.

[SexSymbol]

He already is. Nostalgia has no place in my top ten list. No way there are ten players in history that are better.
You just had to say that, didn't you.
MJ/Kareem/Magic/Bird/Rusell - very obvious, no argument for lebron
Kobe/Hakeem/Duncan/Shaq/Wilt/Mikan - pretty much obvious too, although you can make some argument, that would be obliterated five minutes after making it
Now if we count DR.J's full career AS WE SHOULD, he's better than LeBron.
He's in the tier of Moses, Pettit, West, Oscar.
Top 15 easily, top 10? Not if you know at least something about pre 80s

[Magic 32]

He is better than Magic. Wilt and Russell should not be in anyone's top ten.

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/bill-russell-bored-at-game-7.gif

[Big#50]

You just had to say that, didn't you.
MJ/Kareem/Magic/Bird/Rusell - very obvious, no argument for lebron
Kobe/Hakeem/Duncan/Shaq/Wilt/Mikan - pretty much obvious too, although you can make some argument, that would be obliterated five minutes after making it
Now if we count DR.J's full career AS WE SHOULD, he's better than LeBron.
He's in the tier of Moses, Pettit, West, Oscar.
Top 15 easily, top 10? Not if you know at least something about pre 80s
I go with what I see. Comparing players pre 1970 to now is not wise. The game was way different. Mikan LOL. I doubt he would even make the league now.
I respect what they did in their era.

[SexSymbol]

I go with what I see. Comparing players pre 1970 to now is not wise. The game was way different. Mikan LOL. I doubt he would even make the league now.
I respect what they did in their era.
Judge what they did relatively to their era.
Havlicek is somebody who should be included in the LeBron/Oscar/etc tier.
Isiah Thomas gets snubbed on the all-time rankings too, I wonder what he'd be regarded as if not for the feud with 90s golden boy lol

[SexSymbol]

And even judging the modern era, if you say 1970 onwards, then
Shaq/MJ/Kobe/Duncan/Hakeem/Bird/Magic/Dr.J/Kareem. So yeah, if you delete a third of league's history, he's top ten. But then again, if you delete like 5-6 other people, Kobe's the goat, but what's the point of that

[Big#50]

Judge what they did relatively to their era.
Havlicek is somebody who should be included in the LeBron/Oscar/etc tier.
Isiah Thomas gets snubbed on the all-time rankings too, I wonder what he'd be regarded as if not for the feud with 90s golden boy lol
Lebron hater? Troll?
Havlicek is not close to Lebron level.

[Big#50]

And even judging the modern era, if you say 1970 onwards, then
Shaq/MJ/Kobe/Duncan/Hakeem/Bird/Magic/Dr.J/Kareem. So yeah, if you delete a third of league's history, he's top ten. But then again, if you delete like 5-6 other people, Kobe's the goat, but what's the point of that
Gotcha. A Kobe Stan. Now I know why you put Lebron so low. Thought you guys would have left this forum by now.

[SexSymbol]

Gotcha. A Kobe Stan. Now I know why you put Lebron so low. Thought you guys would have left this forum by now.
What? How does Kobe being one of my favorite players affect the all-time rankings? I may put Kobe higher than most people, why the **** should i put anybody else down?
Havlicek is incredibly underrated. 8 rings with great career numbers and a FMVP is nothing to mess with, I'd probably agree that LeBron's better, but Havlicek's very close

[aj1987]

Even if he wins...

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Magic
6. Bird
If Lebron wins this year, Bird would literally have no case over Lebron.

Lebron is set to surpass him in literally every (except rebounding) major category, with fewer games played than him.

IF Lebron wins this year, Lebron would have more MVP's and FMVP's than Bird, while having the same number of rings and also better stats.

[SexSymbol]

If Lebron wins this year, Bird would literally have no case over Lebron.

Lebron is set to surpass him in literally every (except rebounding) major category, with fewer games played than him.

IF Lebron wins this year, Lebron would have more MVP's and FMVP's than Bird, while having the same number of rings and also better stats.
Bird didn't play for long, and still got 3 rings.
Bird's peak > LeBron's peak
Bird's shooting > LeBron's shooting
Bird's rebounding > LeBron's rebounding
Bird's passing > LeBron's passing
Bird's defense is very similar to LeBron, nothing special one on one, good-to-great help defender.
Not to mention that he went up against the team of Magic/Kareem/Worthy. While LeBron's going up against 10 year old Durant/Westbrook/Harden and 50 year old duncan, 70 year old ginobili and injured tony parker.
Judge players on their competition, not on pure stats or numbers. Basketball isn't a game of numbers, it's a game of winning, you play the game to WIN.

[aj1987]

Bird didn't play for long, and still got 3 rings.
If Lebron wins this year, he would end up the same number of rings with fewer games played (I'm not even talking about seasons, just games).


Bird's peak > LeBron's peak
Not really. It's pretty debatable.


Bird's rebounding > LeBron's rebounding
True. Lets not forget that they also played at a faster pace. ~10 on average. Still a better rebounder than Lebron though.


Bird's passing > LeBron's passing
Again, it's debatable.


Bird's defense is very similar to LeBron, nothing special one on one, good-to-great help defender.
You're kidding, right? Bird was an above average defender at best. :facepalm


Not to mention that he went up against the team of Magic/Kareem/Worthy. While LeBron's going up against 10 year old Durant/Westbrook/Harden and 50 year old duncan, 70 year old ginobili and injured tony parker.
Wasn't Kareem like 110 years old when Bird played against them? Lebron would've feasted against those Laker teams. Acting like Lebron never won against good teams shows how ignorant you are. If you're going to bring up injuries, he won 2 rings with an injured Wade and Bosh playing like a scrub. Oh, and Bosh was injured in 2012 as well.


Judge players on their competition, not on pure stats or numbers. Basketball isn't a game of numbers, it's a game of winning, you play the game to WIN.
Lebron played equally good competition. He's been the best player in the league for a while. If he wins this year, he'd have more rings than Bird in fewer seasons as well.

[fpliii]

Wilt and Russell should not be in anyone's top ten.

Where's the dumbest posts on ISH thread?

[aj1987]

Where's the dumbest posts on ISH thread?
Bait post. Anyone who doesn't have Russell in their top 3 is an idiot.

[SexSymbol]

If Lebron wins this year, he would end up the same number of rings with fewer games played (I'm not even talking about seasons, just games).


Not really. It's pretty debatable.


True. Lets not forget that they also played at a faster pace. ~10 on average. Still a better rebounder than Lebron though.


Again, it's debatable.


You're kidding, right? Bird was an above average defender at best. :facepalm


Wasn't Kareem like 110 years old when Bird played against them? Lebron would've feasted against those Laker teams. Acting like Lebron never won against good teams shows how ignorant you are. If you're going to bring up injuries, he won 2 rings with an injured Wade and Bosh playing like a scrub. Oh, and Bosh was injured in 2012 as well.


Lebron played equally good competition. He's been the best player in the league for a while. If he wins this year, he'd have more rings than Bird in fewer seasons as well.
His passing and rebounding isn't debatable. He averaged almost the same amount of assists playing off ball all the time, there's no debate here. Rebounding isn't close even with pace adjusted stats.
LeBron's an above average defender too. Constantly gets beat off the dribble by players of the same size (george, Durant, Swaggy P (alright, this one's for the bait :D)) they're help defense is actually very similar, man to man defense too, especially for Bird pre-broken back.

Kareem was still considerably the biggest player on the court, so with his hook and long arms he could've played until his wheels fallen off very effectively. That's actually basically what happened. You can account some of that for Duncan too, but there's no excuse for old as dirt Ginobili, and hobbled Parker.
LeBron's competition in his best player in the game years (12-13) has been pedestrian at best, half of the ****ing league is injured. Bosh only played like a scrub in last year's Pacers series, he was excellent defensively before that, and a very effective player in the finals.
You mention two teammates, although everybody else getting freakisly hot doesn't get mentioned? How about miller's bazillion of 3s in close out game 5 against OKC? I remember Shane Battier was hitting everything from everywhere too.
Judge greatness relative to their competition

[moe94]

Bait post. Anyone who doesn't have Russell in their top 3 is an idiot.

What?

First off, outside ring count, he has absolutely zero case over Wilt.

KAJ career resume is almost unarguably better.

Jordan's career > Russell.

Seems like 3 right off the bat.

[aj1987]

His passing and rebounding isn't debatable. He averaged almost the same amount of assists playing off ball all the time, there's no debate here. Rebounding isn't close even with pace adjusted stats.
I already said that Bird is a better rebounder even with pace adjusted stats.
Lebron is a better passer and it's not even close. Even without pace adjustment, Lebron get more assists.


LeBron's an above average defender too. Constantly gets beat off the dribble by players of the same size (george, Durant, Swaggy P (alright, this one's for the bait :D)) they're help defense is actually very similar, man to man defense too, especially for Bird pre-broken back.
Have you seen Lebron play defense at all? Especially in '11 and '12? Durant was 'slowed' by Lebron in '12 Finals, whenever he was on him. Durant TORCHED Battier. His defense on Rose in '11? I could keen on going. Bird? Not so much.



Kareem was still considerably the biggest player on the court, so with his hook and long arms he could've played until his wheels fallen off very effectively. That's actually basically what happened. You can account some of that for Duncan too, but there's no excuse for old as dirt Ginobili, and hobbled Parker.
Duncan was a legit DPOY candidate and a top 10 MVP candidate. TP was also a top 10 MVP candidate.


LeBron's competition in his best player in the game years (12-13) has been pedestrian at best, half of the ****ing league is injured. Bosh only played like a scrub in last year's Pacers series, he was excellent defensively before that, and a very effective player in the finals.
Lol, wut? Bosh scored 0 points in game 7 of the FINALS. The Heat's 2nd best player was injured in 2 of the title runs. Bosh was injured during the '12 playoffs and sprained his ankle in '13. Lets not use the injuries excuse.


You mention two teammates, although everybody else getting freakisly hot doesn't get mentioned? How about miller's bazillion of 3s in close out game 5 against OKC? I remember Shane Battier was hitting everything from everywhere too.
So, who carried them in the other games, where they played like scrubs? Besides, Bird played on literally some of the most stacked teams ever.


Judge greatness relative to their competition
True. Lebron played in an era, with some of the best players ever and faced MVP's and beat them. Faced the best defensive teams in the league and beat them. Faced the best offensive teams in the league and beat them. Get over your nostalgia and you might actually understand what I'm trying to say.


What?

First off, outside ring count, he has absolutely zero case over Wilt.

KAJ career resume is almost unarguably better.

Jordan's career > Russell.

Seems like 3 right off the bat.

If that's the case, shouldn't Russell's career >>>>> Wilt's? 11 rings and 5 MVP's and all that stuff?

[SexSymbol]

I already said that Bird is a better rebounder even with pace adjusted stats.
Lebron is a better passer and it's not even close. Even without pace adjustment, Lebron get more assists.


Have you seen Lebron play defense at all? Especially in '11 and '12? Durant was 'slowed' by Lebron in '12 Finals, whenever he was on him. Durant TORCHED Battier. His defense on Rose in '11? I could keen on going. Bird? Not so much.



Duncan was a legit DPOY candidate and a top 10 MVP candidate. TP was also a top 10 MVP candidate.


Lol, wut? Bosh scored 0 points in game 7 of the FINALS. The Heat's 2nd best player was injured in 2 of the title runs. Bosh was injured during the '12 playoffs and sprained his ankle in '13. Lets not use the injuries excuse.


So, who carried them in the other games, where they played like scrubs? Besides, Bird played on literally some of the most stacked teams ever.


True. Lebron played in an era, with some of the best players ever and faced MVP's and beat them. Faced the best defensive teams in the league and beat them. Faced the best offensive teams in the league and beat them. Get over your nostalgia and you might actually understand what I'm trying to say.



If that's the case, shouldn't Russell's career >>>>> Wilt's? 11 rings and 5 MVP's and all that stuff?
>>Lebron is the better passer
because?
>>Gets more assists.
Yeaaaaaaaaaah, that's great basketball knowledge, very good! If you were in the 3rd grade or something...

What about his defense on Rose in 11? He was defending him in 4th quarters and still not all of them. In 10 he got torched by Rose 1x1 lol
Durant was scoring pretty good on LBJ in OKC, dunno about statistics, just going bout the eye test for this one. And you couldn't keep going, wasn't he torched 1x1 by pierve in 08 for 43 or something? Jason Terry ruining his reputation as a defender?

Duncan was the best bigman in the game last year, I can give you that. That's not saying much in this era, but whatever. What's the point of mentioning that parker was a top10 mvp candidate if we're talking about the finals where he was injured?

There's actually no nostalgia involved. LeBron faced and average defensive team in OKC and an average defensive Spurs team. Popovich said that they will focus more on offense in the future like two years ago.
What MVPs has he beaten besides rose lol?

[tmacattack33]

according to his fans at least. This was the prototypical lebron performance, a lot of fanfare, hype, build up, but ultimately all we are left with is a broken promise, empty stats, and a lot of stans holding their flaccid d!ck.

I have always said that Lebron is the ultimate front runner, the guy performs extremely well when his team is balling. He's able to feed off the energy of his teammates and snowball out of control. But when his team is struggling and need him to be the catalyst or the spark to ignite the comeback or to carry the team? he can only take what the defense :"gives him"

he absolutely DOES NOT have the ability to impose his will on the game. and it's not a function of his mentality, it's a lack of ability.

When you can't get a shot off in every circumstance, you are not on that MJ and Kobe stratosphere. Real talk

To say this about Lebron right now is hilarious.

The exact opposite of what you just said is what has happened in almost every major playoff series Lebron has taken part in in the last 3 years (even his terrible Finals performance in 2011 does not fit your description of him being a "front-runner", as Miami was up in that series and Dallas came from behind :oldlol: :facepalm ).

[tmacattack33]

>>Lebron is the better passer
because?
>>Gets more assists.
Yeaaaaaaaaaah, that's great basketball knowledge, very good! If you were in the 3rd grade or something...

What about his defense on Rose in 11? He was defending him in 4th quarters and still not all of them. In 10 he got torched by Rose 1x1 lol
Durant was scoring pretty good on LBJ in OKC, dunno about statistics, just going bout the eye test for this one. And you couldn't keep going, wasn't he torched 1x1 by pierve in 08 for 43 or something? Jason Terry ruining his reputation as a defender?

Duncan was the best bigman in the game last year, I can give you that. That's not saying much in this era, but whatever. What's the point of mentioning that parker was a top10 mvp candidate if we're talking about the finals where he was injured?

There's actually no nostalgia involved. LeBron faced and average defensive team in OKC and an average defensive Spurs team. Popovich said that they will focus more on offense in the future like two years ago.
What MVPs has he beaten besides rose lol?

:oldlol:

This whole post has "casual fan" written all over it.

Terrible analysis, incorrect facts, and horrible arguments.

Jan 2014 :facepalm

[SexSymbol]

:oldlol:

This whole post has "casual fan" written all over it.

Terrible analysis, incorrect facts, and horrible arguments.

Jan 2014 :facepalm
Great counter-arguments, thank you for contributing your brilliant opinion and solidifying it with those fantastic smiles. Arguments that you just can't refute

[chazzy]

Lebron is a better passer and it's not even close. Even without pace adjustment, Lebron get more assists.

:oldlol: Wow, what a joke. For saying they're not close as passers and justifying it with "Lebron get more assist." Is this what basketball analysis has come to?

[fpliii]

What?

First off, outside ring count, he has absolutely zero case over Wilt.

KAJ career resume is almost unarguably better.

Jordan's career > Russell.

Seems like 3 right off the bat.
We'll have to agree to disagree, my good man. :cheers:

Not in the mood to debate this today, but you're a good poster so I'm sure you have good reasons.

[aj1987]

:oldlol: Wow, what a joke. For saying they're not close as passers and justifying it with "Lebron get more assist." Is this what basketball analysis has come to?
Dude, there's already a billion page thread on that topic. I don't want to get into that again. I did exaggerate a bit, but Lebron is a better passer. Same tier though.


What about his defense on Rose in 11? He was defending him in 4th quarters and still not all of them. In 10 he got torched by Rose 1x1 lol
27 on 25 shots and they lost.


Durant was scoring pretty good on LBJ in OKC, dunno about statistics
One of the LeStans might be able to dig it up, but I remember Durants numbers dropping significantly, when Lebron switched onto him.


pierve in 08 for 43 or something?
Outside of that game, Pierce scored 16 on 36% that series. With that game included, 19 on 40%.


Jason Terry ruining his reputation as a defender?
Just like how Green, TP, Timmy, Neal, Kawhi all torched Lebron at the same time, right? Or how Lebron gets blamed for Westbrook going of when he's guarding Sefalosha/Durant?

Also, aren't you the guy who posted that peak Bird > peak MJ?

EDIT:
[quote=SexSymbol]I'd take peak bird over peak jordan, peak shaq and peak olajuwon.


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9373233&postcount=89
I think we're done here.

[SexSymbol]

Dude, there's already a billion page thread on that topic. I don't want to get into that again. I did exaggerate a bit, but Lebron is a better passer. Same tier though.


27 on 25 shots and they lost.


One of the LeStans might be able to dig it up, but I remember Durants numbers dropping significantly, when Lebron switched onto him.


Outside of that game, Pierce scored 16 on 36% that series. With that game included, 19 on 40%.

[QUOTE= SexSymbol]Jason Terry ruining his reputation as a defender?
Just like how Green, TP, Timmy, Neal, Kawhi all torched Lebron at the same time, right? Or how Lebron gets blamed for Westbrook going of when he's guarding Sefalosha/Durant?

Also, aren't you the guy who posted that peak Bird > peak MJ?

EDIT:



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9373233&postcount=89
I think we're done here.

LeBron is not a better passer, probably doesn't even have a case, managed 7 assists while constantly running the offense, when Bird managed 6 (min you it was brought down by his back injuries in laters years), while playing completely off the ball. Just no case.

I don't know why you brought up the entire spurs team, he was defending Jason Terry on more than one possession that game, you know that and I know that. And got completely obliterated.

Done by what? What's so asinine about taking peak Bird over peak MJ?

[TMT]

27 on 25 shots? :lol Way to backup your words Lebron.

EDIT: 18 shots, my bad. Still a weak performance from Bron, in a LOSS to the Wizards, when he was supposedly going to put up "big numbers". Barely got his averages.

[LEFT4DEAD]

I have lerked for years, very rarely post, but I couldn't help myself this time. This board has progressively gotten worse and worse as time goes on and this recent opening has just opened the floodgates to an avalanche of trash. Any thread with mention to Lebron/Durant/Kobe just turns into a trollfest, barely any intelligent actual discussion. Half the threads on the front page are just rubbish troll/bait threads. I'll sure as hell be visiting this place a hell of a lot less.
Well there is a reason why so many quality posters are leaving this forum. I have been on ISH for 6-7 years, and it seems that its getting worse and worse every day. Literally, there are maybe 5% somewhat quality threads. The rest is straight up garbage.

OTC is the only good part of this forum really.

[branslowski]

What's so hard to believe about getting back into ball after stopping for a bit?

There is a difference between facts and your paranoid opinion. Don't confuse me for some dude who has multiple accounts on a message board. Quit talking out of your ass.

Bro, the first week you started posting, you brought up some shit about my rapping n other shit, which was discussed in a thread a day or 2 before you started posting out of nowhere. You basically knew everyone and their up to date tendencies/opinions/trends.

Definitely not the characteristics of one who just decided to hop back on ISH after a 2-3yr absence.

At first the list of ppl I thought you were (you could still be them):

Jameerthequeer
samari swish
Dmavs41/Gino

[moe94]

You're tripping, bran. What you're suggesting means I basically defended you all throughout a thread over your rapping and argued with myself, samurai, over the merits of the entire genre.

Lmfao

[Rose'sACL]

Lebron is a beta we all know this.
What about a guy on a message board who has his picture as his avi and hates him?
How beta is that guy?

[branslowski]

You're tripping, bran. What you're suggesting means I basically defended you all throughout a thread over your rapping and argued with myself, samurai, over the merits of the entire genre.

Lmfao

Point takin. Guess those names are blacked out. Hmm, tis be one interesting predicament..:coleman:

[aj1987]

I don't know why you brought up the entire spurs team, he was defending Jason Terry on more than one possession that game, you know that and I know that. And got completely obliterated.
Because people like you expect Lebron to guard every single player on the floor at the same time. People were blaming Lebron 'cause Green and Neal were hitting 3's. Then they blamed him for TP scoring, etc. You get the point. Sure, JT scored 18 on 61% TS, but Lebron was guarding him less than half the time. Go back and watch the games. Even if he did, that's just one. Lebron is a 5x All-Def First team defender and was a runner up last year for DPOY. Bird? Not so much.

And no, Bird is NOT a better passer that Lebron. Just because you're nostalgic about the '80's doesn't change the fact that Lebron's better.


Done by what? What's so asinine about taking peak Bird over peak MJ?
:oldlol: Seriously? Peak MJ, Hakeem, and Shaq are a whole tier above peak Bird. Not even close.