1993 Suns vs 2011 Mavericks

[Purch]

Who do you think would win in a 7 game series and why?


1993 Phoenix Suns (62-20)
G-Kevin Johnson
G-Dan Majerle
F-Richard Dumas
F-Charles Barkley
C-Mark West

Bench
Cedric Ceballos
Tom Chambers
Danny Ainge
Negele Knight
Oliver Miller
Jerrod Mustaf
Frank Thompson

Coach: Paul Westphal

2011 Mavs (57-25)
G-Jason Kidd
G-J.J. Barea
F-Shawn Marion
F-Dirk Nowitzki
C-Tyson Chandler

Bench
Jason Terry
DeShawn Stevenson
Brian Cardinal
Ian Mahinmi
Peja Stojakovic
Caron Butler
Brendan Haywood

Coach: Rick Carlisle

Who wins and in how many games?

[Ratnik]

Suns in 5

[Purch]

Suns in 5
What are your reasons?

[Ratnik]

What do you mean reasons?This is insidehoops

[L.A.Hawks]

suns in 6. barkley is an arguable top ten player ever who knows how to score from anywhere on the court and in any way.

[dr.hee]

Who do you think would win in a 7 game series and why?


1993 Phoenix Suns (62-20)
G-Kevin Johnson
G-Dan Majerle
F-Richard Dumas
F-Charles Barkley
C-Mark West

Bench
Cedric Ceballos
Tom Chambers
Danny Ainge
Negele Knight
Oliver Miller
Jerrod Mustaf
Frank Thompson

Coach: Paul Westphal

2011 Mavs (57-25)
G-Jason Kidd
G-J.J. Barea
F-Shawn Marion
F-Dirk Nowitzki
C-Tyson Chandler

Bench
Jason Terry
DeShawn Stevenson
Brian Cardinal
Ian Mahinmi
Peja Stojakovic
Brendan Haywood

Coach: Rick Carlisle

Who wins and in how many games?

Why did you exclude Caron Butler from the Mavs?

Anyway...Mavs in 6 or 7. Their playoff run was just some video game shit at times, don't see how the Suns are supposed to stop the Mavs raining threes and Dirk doing whatever he wants in the 4th. I mean they won the championship without their 2nd/3rd option in Butler, who was averaging 15/4 before going down. Add him to a squad that won the chip without him, and this team is even tougher to beat.

[Lebron23]

What do you mean reasons?This is insidehoops

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Purch]

Why did you exclude Caron Butler from the Mavs?
Did I.? O.o

[dr.hee]

Did I.? O.o

Yes.

[Rose'sACL]

most people on ISH overrate the **** out of players who have retired and teams that played in previous eras.
mavs win in 6 or 7.

[L.A.Hawks]

most people on ISH overrate the **** out of players who have retired and teams that played in previous eras.
mavs win in 6 or 7.

smh...so any modern day team can beat any old school team....right.....

:facepalm

[dr.hee]

smh...so any modern day team can beat any old school team....right.....

:facepalm

Did he say that? No? Why did you post then?

[cuad]

I'll take the 2011 Mavericks.

Remember, that 1993 Suns team was coached by Paul Westphal, who is a terrible coach.

[L.A.Hawks]

Did he say that? No? Why did you post then?

Was I talking to you? No? Why did you post then?

[Purch]

Remember that this suns team took the Bulls to 6 in the finals

[Rose'sACL]

Was I talking to you? No? Why did you post then?
i wasn't replying to you either. by your logic the only one who can reply to me is the OP.

[L.A.Hawks]

i wasn't replying to you either. by your logic the only one who can reply to me is the OP.

you quoted me....move on kid.

[Purch]

most people on ISH overrate the **** out of players who have retired and teams that played in previous eras.
mavs win in 6 or 7.
Both of these teams had very impressive runs, even if the suns run came an end at the hands of Jordan

[dr.hee]

Jan 2014:facepalm

[sportjames23]

Suns in 6 at the most.

Ya'll talk about video game type play from the Mavs. What the hell do you think the 93 Suns were? Highest scoring team in the league, Majerle and Ainge hitting threes from anywhere in the gym, Barkley legitimately winning MVP over MJ.

The Bulls couldn't quite hold them down and put the clamps on them defensively like they could other teams because their offense was so damn high powered. It took MJ having an otherworldly series to beat them, same as it did Dream the next two seasons.

Barkley would eat the 11 Mavs alive in the post, Richard Dumas, before he went druggie and kicked out of the league, would slow Dirk down a bit, KJ would dismantle the Mavs defense, and Majerle and Ainge would pop threes all over them.

[Purch]

Suns in 6 at the most.

Ya'll talk about video game type play from the Mavs. What the hell do you think the 93 Suns were? Highest scoring team in the league, Majerle and Ainge hitting threes from anywhere in the gym, Barkley legitimately winning MVP over MJ.

The Bulls couldn't quite hold them down and put the clamps on them defensively like they could other teams because their offense was so damn high powered. It took MJ having an otherworldly series to beat them, same as it did Dream the next two seasons.

Barkley would eat the 11 Mavs alive in the post, Richard Dumas, before he went druggie and kicked out of the league, would slow Dirk down a bit, KJ would dismantle the Mavs defense, and Majerle and Ainge would pop threes all over them.
How would the Mavs zone affect the Suns offense?

[Rose'sACL]

you quoted me....move on kid.
lol. blind idiot.

[dr.hee]

Suns in 6 at the most.

Ya'll talk about video game type play from the Mavs. What the hell do you think the 93 Suns were? Highest scoring team in the league, Majerle and Ainge hitting threes from anywhere in the gym, Barkley legitimately winning MVP over MJ.

The Bulls couldn't quite hold them down and put the clamps on them defensively like they could other teams because their offense was so damn high powered. It took MJ having an otherworldly series to beat them, same as it did Dream the next two seasons.

Barkley would eat the 11 Mavs alive in the post, Richard Dumas, before he went druggie and kicked out of the league, would slow Dirk down a bit, KJ would dismantle the Mavs defense, and Majerle and Ainge would pop threes all over them.

A lot of hyperbole in my opinion:

1) Majerle and Ainge hitting threes from anywhere

True, but so did the Mavs. Dirk, Terry, Peja, Butler, Kidd, Stevenson.

In the 1993 playoffs, Ainge/Majerle combined for 8 3pt attempts/game shooting around 40%. Peja/Terry alone did roughly the same for Dallas in the 2011 playoffs. Then add Dirk, Kidd, Stevenson...and a healthy Butler was a 43% 3pt shooter.

Now I'm not saying the Mavs would blow the Suns out...it could go either way. Just taking your argument and showing that if you're using the 3pt shooting abilities of two Suns players as a reason for Phoenix winning, your logic is blowing up in your face because objectively speaking, the Mavs were a better 3pt shooting team than the 93 Suns. Nobody knows who would've won a hypothetical series, but the Mavs being an at least equally good 3pt shooting team is simply a fact. Both shot around 36%, with the Mavs having a bigger number of dangerous shooters than Phoenix.

2) Richard Dumas slowing down Dirk

What's the exact reasion for you to believe that Richard Dumas could slow down a player who dropped 27 a game on 48/46/94? While the Mavs defense couldn't do a thing against KJ and Barkley? Did you even watch the 2011 playoffs?


Basically we're all speculating here, but the specific reasons you gave make no sense at all. You'e mentioning two players combining for 8 3pt attempts per game as some unstoppable force, while completely ignoring the qualities of the opposing teams. Then you're saying Barkley (shooting 48% in the 1993 playoffs) would destroy Dallas, while Nowitzki (shooting 48% in the 2011 playoffs) would get slowed down by Richard Dumas?


It's all speculation and maybe the Suns would win a series, but your post is just horrible. There are reasons that could lead to someone favoring Phoenix, but not like your pointless text.

[DMAVS41]

Who knows. I'd lean towards the Suns, but I'd also think that a team of prime Lebron, Wade, and Bosh would destroy the 11 Mavs as well.

Total toss up.

[Purch]

A lot of hyperbole in my opinion:

1) Majerle and Ainge hitting threes from anywhere

True, but so did the Mavs. Dirk, Terry, Peja, Butler, Kidd, Stevenson.

In the 1993 playoffs, Ainge/Majerle combined for 8 3pt attempts/game shooting around 40%. Peja/Terry alone did roughly the same for Dallas in the 2011 playoffs. Then add Dirk, Kidd, Stevenson...and a healthy Butler was a 43% 3pt shooter.

Now I'm not saying the Mavs would blow the Suns out...it could go either way. Just taking your argument and showing that if you're using the 3pt shooting abilities of two Suns players as a reason for Phoenix winning, your logic is blowing up in your face because objectively speaking, the Mavs were a better 3pt shooting team than the 93 Suns. Nobody knows who would've won a hypothetical series, but the Mavs being an at least equally good 3pt shooting team is simply a fact. Both shot around 36%, with the Mavs having a bigger number of dangerous shooters than Phoenix.

2) Richard Dumas slowing down Dirk

What's the exact reasion for you to believe that Richard Dumas could slow down a player who dropped 27 a game on 48/46/94? While the Mavs defense couldn't do a thing against KJ and Barkley? Did you even watch the 2011 playoffs?


Basically we're all speculating here, but the specific reasons you gave make no sense at all. You'e mentioning two players combining for 8 3pt attempts per game as some unstoppable force, while completely ignoring the qualities of the opposing teams. Then you're saying Barkley (shooting 48% in the 1993 playoffs) would destroy Dallas, while Nowitzki (shooting 48% in the 2011 playoffs) would get slowed down by Richard Dumas?


It's all speculation and maybe the Suns would win a series, but your post is just horrible. There are reasons that could lead to someone favoring Phoenix, but not like your pointless text.
Agreed, in general it shows Bias when you only reference one teams strengths, and not the opposition, especially when they share a similar strength

[Audio One]

Suns in 6 at the most.

Ya'll talk about video game type play from the Mavs. What the hell do you think the 93 Suns were? Highest scoring team in the league, Majerle and Ainge hitting threes from anywhere in the gym, Barkley legitimately winning MVP over MJ.

The Bulls couldn't quite hold them down and put the clamps on them defensively like they could other teams because their offense was so damn high powered. It took MJ having an otherworldly series to beat them, same as it did Dream the next two seasons.

Barkley would eat the 11 Mavs alive in the post, Richard Dumas, before he went druggie and kicked out of the league, would slow Dirk down a bit, KJ would dismantle the Mavs defense, and Majerle and Ainge would pop threes all over them.

No, it took Barkley missed free throws to beat them in '95, UpChuck had Houston on the ropes, and just :facepalm

[King Jane]

Mavs would kill the Suns... a modern 7 footer PF vs an older more primitive era 6-4 PF? HAHAHAHAHAHA don't make me laugh. Barkley is a runt and unskillled by comparison, would get bodied by Dirk it would be such a mismatch.

[97 bulls]

I gotta go with the Mavs. Tyson Chandler on Barkley, or Marion, I like Butler and Stevenson on Marjle. Johnson would definitely pose a problem though.

The Suns would probably put Mark West on Dirk Nowitzki. While hes a good defender, I like Dirk.

Both teams have alot of depth, but the Mavs have a better defense.

Mavs in 6-7.

[Purch]

Mavs would kill the Suns... a modern 7 footer PF vs an older more primitive era 6-4 PF? HAHAHAHAHAHA don't make me laugh. Barkley is a runt and unskillled by comparison, would get bodied by Dirk it would be such a mismatch.
Dirk in 2011 was 32, Barkley in 93 was 29.

[King Jane]

Dirk in 2011 was 32, Barkley in 93 was 29.
older era, as in they didn't know all the ways of playing the game back then, not diifficult to see or understand. In barkleys era fronting the post was like an innovative way of thinking that only some players did. Players on average were much smaller. It's ridiculous to compre the two teams one team has 20 years of evolution on the other.

[sportjames23]

Mavs would kill the Suns... a modern 7 footer PF vs an older more primitive era 6-4 PF? HAHAHAHAHAHA don't make me laugh. Barkley is a runt and unskillled by comparison, would get bodied by Dirk it would be such a mismatch.


Stop posting. Get off my internets and go to sleep.

For all you fools shitting on Barkley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu3vkwP3GHQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi-oVrsJ_20

This pvssy-ass league stopping Sir Charles? GTFO. Chuck would abuse Dirk and Chandler in the post.

[Purch]

older era, as in they didn't know all the ways of playing the game back then, not diifficult to see or understand. In barkleys era fronting the post was like an innovative way of thinking that only some players did. Players on average were much smaller. It's ridiculous to compre the two teams one team has 20 years of evolution on the other.
Well defenses back then were much more physical with the hand checking legality, but they weren't as complex. Even if Barkley rarely got fronted in the post, he's stilll the second most double teamed player in nba history behind Shaq.

Also, I'm not willining to concede that it's impossible to compare teams from the 90's to the 00's. I can concede that point when it comes to comparing the 60' or 70's teams to the modern nba teams, because those eras were clearly primitive in the way basketball was played on the court. From the mid 80's onward, I find very little indication that there was another mass evolution of the nba game and the talent. Different things have become more emphasized like Three pointers, and ball movement, to adjust to different defensive rules, but I see no indication that 90's players couldn't make the same adjustments if they needed to. Even though the game has changed, there hasn't been a huge leap in talent or skills from the teams of the 90's IMO.

[King Jane]

Well defenses back then were much more physical with the hand checking legality, but they weren't as complex. Even if Barkley rarely got fronted in the post, he's stilll the second most double teamed player in nba history behind Shaq.

Also, I'm not willining to concede that it's impossible to compare teams from the 90's to the 00's. I can concede that point when it comes to comparing the 60' or 70's teams to the modern nba teams, because those eras were clearly primitive in the way basketball was played on the court. From the mid 80's onward, I find very little indication that there was another mass evolution of the nba game and the talent. Different things have become more emphasized like Three pointers, and ball movement, to adjust to different defensive rules, but I see no indication that 90's players couldn't make the same adjustments if they needed to. Even though the game has changed, there hasn't been a huge leap in talent or skills from the teams of the 90's IMO.
Think again, 90s players look like twigs and stand around on defense compared to the modern era, they played a very primitive game comapred to what we see being played by the modern disciplined gym rat athletes of this era. Also, the advent of computer sciences has greatly improved NBA tactics and strategies. Advanced stats and metrics have totally changed coaching methods etc. The game is flat out played much more advanced now. And by bigger stronger and faster athletes.

[97 bulls]

Think again, 90s players look like twigs and stand around on defense compared to the modern era, they played a very primitive game comapred to what we see being played by the modern disciplined gym rat athletes of this era. Also, the advent of computer sciences has greatly improved NBA tactics and strategies. Advanced stats and metrics have totally changed coaching methods etc. The game is flat out played much more advanced now. And by bigger stronger and faster athletes.
Oh please. Teams have always tracked a players tendencies.

Those advanced stats are made solely for the purpose of the fans.

[Purch]

Think again, 90s players look like twigs and stand around on defense compared to the modern era, they played a very primitive game comapred to what we see being played by the modern disciplined gym rat athletes of this era. Also, the advent of computer sciences has greatly improved NBA tactics and strategies. Advanced stats and metrics have totally changed coaching methods etc. The game is flat out played much more advanced now. And by bigger stronger and faster athletes.
Based on what exactly. Does the death of the mid range shot in the modern game indicate that it's less primitive? I'm not really sure where you're going with this. For example Phil's version of the triangle in the 90's won six championships, and these same triangle plays created open looks for 2 championships runs against these completely "evolved" defenses in 09 and 10, that you're referencing. Even when Utah was in the conference finals in 07, we were running the same flex plays that were run in Utah for two decades. If anything the early 00's in particular brought a lot less strategy and a lot more Iso ball during the And 1 era.

The only 2 examples I can think of that supports your case are, Thibs reinvention of defensive schemes after 08, and the reformulation of the Spurs offense after 09. The other differences just seem to be changes around zone rules

[King Jane]

Oh please. Teams have always tracked a players tendencies.

Those advanced stats are made solely for the purpose of the fans.
Coaches have apps for coaching now that help them do things past coaches couldnt dream of doing you guys are crazy if you think this stuff doesnt drastically improve the way the game is played

**EDIT** also scouting reports etc are all on apps now too. Players who would have disappeared in paperwork in the past are now being found and used thanks to modern sports technology.

[Audio One]

A lot of hyperbole in my opinion:

1) Majerle and Ainge hitting threes from anywhere

True, but so did the Mavs. Dirk, Terry, Peja, Butler, Kidd, Stevenson.

In the 1993 playoffs, Ainge/Majerle combined for 8 3pt attempts/game shooting around 40%. Peja/Terry alone did roughly the same for Dallas in the 2011 playoffs. Then add Dirk, Kidd, Stevenson...and a healthy Butler was a 43% 3pt shooter.

Now I'm not saying the Mavs would blow the Suns out...it could go either way. Just taking your argument and showing that if you're using the 3pt shooting abilities of two Suns players as a reason for Phoenix winning, your logic is blowing up in your face because objectively speaking, the Mavs were a better 3pt shooting team than the 93 Suns. Nobody knows who would've won a hypothetical series, but the Mavs being an at least equally good 3pt shooting team is simply a fact. Both shot around 36%, with the Mavs having a bigger number of dangerous shooters than Phoenix.

2) Richard Dumas slowing down Dirk

What's the exact reasion for you to believe that Richard Dumas could slow down a player who dropped 27 a game on 48/46/94? While the Mavs defense couldn't do a thing against KJ and Barkley? Did you even watch the 2011 playoffs?


Basically we're all speculating here, but the specific reasons you gave make no sense at all. You'e mentioning two players combining for 8 3pt attempts per game as some unstoppable force, while completely ignoring the qualities of the opposing teams. Then you're saying Barkley (shooting 48% in the 1993 playoffs) would destroy Dallas, while Nowitzki (shooting 48% in the 2011 playoffs) would get slowed down by Richard Dumas?


It's all speculation and maybe the Suns would win a series, but your post is just horrible. There are reasons that could lead to someone favoring Phoenix, but not like your pointless text.


:applause:

This, along with Kidd and the Matrix being in the conversation of the most potent 1-2 defensive stand ever. I ultimately have Barkley several spots ahead of Nowitzki in the all-time rankings, but Dallas this one fluke year was on point. Very good question OP

[Audio One]

Oh please. Teams have always tracked a players tendencies.

Those advanced stats are made solely for the stat nerds that don't watch the games.

FYP :applause:

[97 bulls]

Coaches have apps for coaching now that help them do things past coaches couldnt dream of doing you guys are crazy if you think this stuff doesnt drastically improve the way the game is played

**EDIT** also scouting reports etc are all on apps now too. Players who would have disappeared in paperwork in the past are now being found and used thanks to modern sports technology.
Lol so its what we call "go paperless". All it does is save a company money. It does not make anything more effective.

[97 bulls]

FYP :applause:
Lol

[Booz Vivic]

Suns in 5

WTF are you moron thers onley one Dirk. Mavs in 4

suns in 6. barkley is an arguable top ten player ever who knows how to score from anywhere on the court and in any way.

WTF Dirks is top 5 player 2x as better as barkley Mavs in 4.


Suns in 6 at the most.

Ya'll talk about video game type play from the Mavs. What the hell do you think the 93 Suns were? Highest scoring team in the league, Majerle and Ainge hitting threes from anywhere in the gym, Barkley legitimately winning MVP over MJ.

The Bulls couldn't quite hold them down and put the clamps on them defensively like they could other teams because their offense was so damn high powered. It took MJ having an otherworldly series to beat them, same as it did Dream the next two seasons.

Barkley would eat the 11 Mavs alive in the post, Richard Dumas, before he went druggie and kicked out of the league, would slow Dirk down a bit, KJ would dismantle the Mavs defense, and Majerle and Ainge would pop threes all over them.

Why does it matter what someone does in the gym. We're talking about games here. Dirk is better than all these guys. Mavs in 5

[Audio One]

WTF are you moron thers onley one Dirk. Mavs in 4


WTF Dirks is top 5 player 2x as better as barkley Mavs in 4.



Why does it matter what someone does in the gym. We're talking about games here. Dirk is better than all these guys. Mavs in 5
:no:


Barkley was a better scorer, rebounder, passer, defender at his peak, maybe the most double teamed big man of the modern era before Shaquille came, had a bigger impact-- he won an MVP over Jordan at his apex, and would've had two if not for Magic and his smile.

Nowitzki has become VASTLY overrated since 2011. That ring still doesn't put him in the same GALAXY of the likes of Malone, Garnett, Duncan, Barkley, and only somewhat mitigates his COLOSSAL failures of years past, including getting sent him in a dustpan by the same team he just defeated a year prior. How's that for a fluke? :roll:

[King Jane]

I'm sorry but no 6-4 power forward would get away with playing today, he'd have to switch to shooting guard but my guess is he couldn't shoot or handle very well because he was never taught how back in his primitive times. He would struggle mightily today. We have point guards his size now it's just part of the evolution of the game they would cross him up. Everything he did a guy like Westbrook can do and better. Dirk at a legit 7 foot would eat him alive.

[Cone]

:no:


Barkley was a better scorer, rebounder, passer, defender at his peak, maybe the most double teamed big man of the modern era before Shaquille came, had a bigger impact-- he won an MVP over Jordan at his apex, and would've had two if not for Magic and his smile.

Nowitzki has become VASTLY overrated since 2011. That ring still doesn't put him in the same GALAXY of the likes of Malone, Garnett, Duncan, Barkley, and only somewhat mitigates his COLOSSAL failures of years past, including getting sent him in a dustpan by the same team he just defeated a year prior. How's that for a fluke? :roll:

bad post. would neg if i could.

dirk is very underrated, and he lost the next year because he had a completely new team. how stupid can you be?

dirk is much better than garnett. top 3 pf at the very least

How about KGs colossal failures like missing the playoffs 3 years in his PRIME.

go to sleep.

[Audio One]

bad post. would neg if i could.

dirk is very underrated, and he lost the next year because he had a completely new team. how stupid can you be?

dirk is much better than garnett. top 3 pf at the very least

How about KGs colossal failures like missing the playoffs 3 years in his PRIME.

go to sleep.

Losing as the underdog > losing as the favorite

:confusedshrug:

[Scal]

Going back to the original post (now that I've had some time to think about it).

I think Dirk is probably the toughest assignment of either of the two teams. I'm not sure who the Suns have that could slow him down (particularly as we are talking '11 playoff run Dirk). West has enough height and lateral quickness but he had trouble staying out of foul trouble in the '93 finals. Guarding Bill Cartwright no less. Maybe Dumas could give him some troubles (I do remember some teams using shorter defenders against him to some results in playoffs before that - '07 Warriors, Spurs, etc.) though I don't think it would be enough.

If I were Mavs coach, I'd like the match-up of having Marion on Barkley. Barkley is still going to get him, but Marion with Chandler coming across off of West or Miller, I'll live with, though the Mavs must box out (something they had trouble with that season, even against a poor rebounding team like the Heat in the finals).

The wildcard to me though is Kevin Johnson. Barkley was solid in the '93 playoffs. Johnson from memory was coming off an injury, and struggled mightily in the finals. If he were to be able to get into the lane and create, I think the Mavs would have problems. Mavs do have the benefit of Kidd, and even Stevenson in spurts, against him though. Terry serves the same kind of role for Mavs, and he had some big games in '11 finals which ultimately got them over the line, playing a similar role as to what you want KJ to play (not necessarily shooting from outside, but definitely in PnR situations and making plays).

The 3pt shooting would obviously play a role, as both teams relied on it. The series would probably come down to who shot it better. The '11 Mavs were crazy hot, even Stevenson was splashing them home and he'd been a poor career 3pt shooter. Dirk and Barkley are probably gonna play each other to a draw individually unless Barkley really hits the glass.

It'd be a tough series either way, but I just like the fact the Mavs were very adaptable defensively whereas the Suns were more of a score-more-points-than-you type of team (though granted they were excellent at that).

[Purch]

I'm sorry but no 6-4 power forward would get away with playing today, he'd have to switch to shooting guard but my guess is he couldn't shoot or handle very well because he was never taught how back in his primitive times. He would struggle mightily today. We have point guards his size now it's just part of the evolution of the game they would cross him up. Everything he did a guy like Westbrook can do and better. Dirk at a legit 7 foot would eat him alive.
The fact that you say you'd have to guess, to find out something that would be obvious if you ever watched him play kills the majority of your credibility.

[Scal]

The fact that you say you'd have to guess, to find out something that would be obvious if you ever watched him play kills the majority of your credibility.

Easy on the youngster, not everyone had the pleasure of seeing Sir Charles in action :cheers:

Barkley was highly skilled, could handle the ball well especially for the power forward spot (it wasn't rare to see him grab a rebound than go coast-to-coast and dunk it, and that isn't an exaggeration). He had a great nose for the rebound, on both ends, and it is not like he was playing against midgets back then. Great touch around the rim and also had a dependable mid-range game later in his career - he could even occasionally step back behind the arc.

Like I mentioned in my above posts, I probably wouldn't have him matched up with Dirk (at either end, but the same goes for Dirk, he wouldn't be able to stop Barkley in the post) because he was (self-admittedly) a lazy defender, and on a guy like Dirk you need someone on their A-game defensively. But Barkley was a very tough cover despite his height.


Check him out King Jane :cheers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPSlgUuYJXs

[Round Mound]

Stop posting. Get off my internets and go to sleep.

For all you fools shitting on Barkley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu3vkwP3GHQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi-oVrsJ_20

This pvssy-ass league stopping Sir Charles? GTFO. Chuck would abuse Dirk and Chandler in the post.

:applause: Some Kids Here Never Saw Sir Charles Play Healthy :no: :facepalm

[Purch]

:applause: Some Kids Here Never Saw Sir Charles Play Healthy :no: :facepalm
Well there's plenty of footage, more so his Suns days than Philly days

[Walker]

I'm sorry but no 6-4 power forward would get away with playing today, he'd have to switch to shooting guard but my guess is he couldn't shoot or handle very well because he was never taught how back in his primitive times. He would struggle mightily today. We have point guards his size now it's just part of the evolution of the game they would cross him up. Everything he did a guy like Westbrook can do and better. Dirk at a legit 7 foot would eat him alive.
How old are you 13? F*ck out of here kid you know nothing. Barkley was a total beast and would obliterate current NBA frontcourts on offense.



Anyway, putting alliances aside I'd have to say probably the Mavs in 7. Phoenix had no one that could match up defensively with Dirk while the Mavs have the defensive players to shut down Phoenix's wing players and double CB having Chandler pull across from weakside (Mark West was pretty useless).
It would be one hell of a fun series to watch.

[Purch]

How old are you 13? F*ck out of here kid you know nothing. Barkley was a total beast and would obliterate current NBA frontcourts on offense.



Anyway, putting alliances aside I'd have to say probably the Mavs in 7. Phoenix had no one that could match up defensively with Dirk while the Mavs have the defensive players to shut down Phoenix's wing players and double CB having Chandler pull across from weakside (Mark West was pretty useless).
It would be one hell of a fun series to watch.
Yea the way he references Barkley's handles, It makes me question if he ever even saw a clip of him playing

[coolhandsteve]

I simulated this series on WhatIfSports.com, yeah it may not be the best solution but hey :confusedshrug: it gives us something to look @.

NOTE: I had to tinker the minutes of the players, also I did this with both teams @ full strength, so Caron Butler is on the '11 Mavs and Cedric Ceballos on the '93 Suns. I made sure Shawn Marion & Richard Dumas got good minutes tho. Suns got HC advantage.)

Game 1: @ Phoenix 116, Dallas 110 in OT

Barkley: 9/15 FG, 26pts/15rebs/6ast/3blk
K.Johnson: 18pts/14ast

Nowitzki: 5/17 FG, 16pts/8rebs/7ast
Butler: 9/18 FG, 22 pts
Kidd: 15pts/9ast, 3/6 3ptFG

Game 2: Dallas 112, Phoenix 105

Nowitzki: 6/14 FG, 14pts/6rebs/6 TOs
Terry: 9/16 FG, 2/4 3ptFG, 24pts/8ast
Chandler: 9/11 FG, 22pts/15rebs

Barkley: 7/14 FG, 3/6 3ptFG, 24pts/14rebs/5ast/2blk
K.Johnson: 5/11 FG, 12pts/11ast/4stl
Majerle: 4/8 3ptFG, 18pts

Game 3: @ Dallas 119, Phoenix 103
(6 Mavs scored in double digits)

Nowitzki: 11/17 FG, 27pts/13rebs
Marion: 15pts/5rebs/3ast/3stl
Kidd: 10pts/10ast/4stl

Barkley: 18pts/9rebs/5asts, 6/13 FG
K.Johnson: 6pts/7rebs/2stl
Dumas: 15pts/5rebs/3blk

Game 4: Phoenix 112, Dallas 107

Barkley: 28pts/12rebs/7ast/3stl, 11/18 FG
K.Johnson: 16pts/12asts/4stl, 6/13 FG
Majerle: 13pts/3stl, 3/5 3ptFG
Ceballos: 14pts/8rebs, 7/13 FG
Dumas: 15pts

Nowitzki: 27pts/7rebs, 10/17 FG
Terry: 20pts/8ast/2stl, 7/14 FG, 3/7 3ptFG
Marion: 16pts/5rebs/2blk

Game 5: @ Phoenix 105, Dallas 103

Barkley: 25pts/14rebs/8ast, 6/17 FG, 13/17 FT
K.Johnson: 8pts/7ast, 4/11 FG
Majerle: 17pts/7rebs, 3/5 3ptFG
Ceballos: 12pts/8rebs/2blk
Dumas: 12pts/5rebs

Nowitzki: 29pts/11rebs, 12/22 FG, 4/5 3ptFG
Kidd: 14pts/5rebs/12asts
Chandler: 12pts/10rebs/3blk
Butler: 2/14 FG :facepalm

Game 6: @ Dallas 107, Phoenix 87
7 Mavs in double digits

Nowitzki: 28pts/7rebs, 6/8 3ptFG
Chandler: 16pts/7rebs
Marion: 13pts/8rebs
Terry: 12 pts, 4/5 3ptFG
Kidd: 7pts/11rebs/12asts

Barkley: 21pts/10rebs
K.Johnson: 10pts/3asts
Ceballos: 10pts/5rebs
Majerle: 9pts, 3/11 FG, 1/6 3ptFG

Game 7: @ Phoenix 121, Dallas 115
6 players from both teams scored in double-digits :applause:

Barkley: 31pts/14rebs/8ast, 9/15 FG, 2/3 3ptFG, 11/14 FT
K.Johnson: 22pts/9ast/3stl
Majerle: 18pts/6rebs/6ast, 4/6 3ptFG
Ceballos: 15pts/8rebs
Ainge: 12pts, 4/4 3ptFG
Dumas: 11pts/8rebs

Nowitzki: 24pts/5rebs/5ast/3blk, 8/18 FG, 2/4 3ptFG
Butler: 19pts/6rebs/4ast, 9/20 FG
Kidd: 16pts/6rebs/8ast
Terry: 14pts, 6/14 FG
Chandler: 13pts/8rebs/3blk, 6/7 FG
Marion: 10pts/6rebs

Suns win 4-3.

[Nikola_]

1993 rules = suns in 5(illegal defense, but no 3 def seconds)

2011 rules = suns in 7(3 def seconds, double teams)

also 5 seconds violation would hurt barkley

[SamuraiSWISH]

Suns in 6 at the most.

Ya'll talk about video game type play from the Mavs. What the hell do you think the 93 Suns were? Highest scoring team in the league, Majerle and Ainge hitting threes from anywhere in the gym, Barkley legitimately winning MVP over MJ.

The Bulls couldn't quite hold them down and put the clamps on them defensively like they could other teams because their offense was so damn high powered. It took MJ having an otherworldly series to beat them, same as it did Dream the next two seasons.

Barkley would eat the 11 Mavs alive in the post, Richard Dumas, before he went druggie and kicked out of the league, would slow Dirk down a bit, KJ would dismantle the Mavs defense, and Majerle and Ainge would pop threes all over them.
Dat Ether

[dankok8]

Quite honestly I consider '93 Barkley who was already a bit removed from his peak a better player than '11 Dirk by a solid margin. Both men could score 26-28 ppg consistently but Barkley was generally much more dominant from the field, a way better rebounder, and a way better playmaker.

If those two teams faced off, the Suns would win 5 or 6 games especially if Ceballos is healthy and playing (which he wasn't in the '93 finals). Chandler on Barkley would work OK but Tyson would struggle with foul trouble against a player who went HARD at the rim like Chuck. Remember against the Heat Chandler could sag off of Joel Anthony and help on drives and that couldn't happen if he was on Barkley. Marion on Barkley would probably work better in that Chandler could roam on defense but Shawn would simply be overpowered.

Kidd would handily lose the battle with KJ even with the latter's injury limitations that season. Majerle would probably go on Terry. Against guys who weren't lightning fast (like MJ... Thunder Dan had little lateral quickness) Majerle could do pretty well. He had good instincts and a lot of energy to chase Terry off the 3pt line.

The rest of the positions are largely a wash but with Barkley > Dirk and KJ easily outplaying all the Mavs guards I think the Suns are better.

[Purch]

Quite honestly I consider '93 Barkley who was already a bit removed from his peak a better player than '11 Dirk by a solid margin. Both men could score 26-28 ppg consistently but Barkley was generally much more dominant from the field, a way better rebounder, and a way better playmaker.

If those two teams faced off, the Suns would win 5 or 6 games especially if Ceballos is healthy and playing (which he wasn't in the '93 finals). Chandler on Barkley would work OK but Tyson would struggle with foul trouble against a player who went HARD at the rim like Chuck. Remember against the Heat Chandler could sag off of Joel Anthony and help on drives and that couldn't happen if he was on Barkley. Marion on Barkley would probably work better in that Chandler could roam on defense but Shawn would simply be overpowered.

Kidd would handily lose the battle with KJ even with the latter's injury limitations that season. Majerle would probably go on Terry. Against guys who weren't lightning fast (like MJ... Thunder Dan had little lateral quickness) Majerle could do pretty well. He had good instincts and a lot of energy to chase Terry off the 3pt line.

The rest of the positions are largely a wash but with Barkley > Dirk and KJ easily outplaying all the Mavs guards I think the Suns are better.
How do you think the Suns would contain Dirk, he was on a different planet that season