D-Rose physically looked healthy

[SamuraiSWISH]

His game had some obvious signs of rust. Some of his timing, his jumper, some decision making and rapport with teammates was visibly off. But beyond that I'd have to say he looked really good.

His blinding speed, strength (improved), stop and go quickness, and even his hops was back to where it was previously. As a Bulls fan, I'm very hopeful.

I did notice in the game thread, and even before this game really, that the haters were out in full force. Particularly the oddly insecure LeBron stans who stay on Derrick Rose's nuts for some reason.

I watched Rose, rusty, returning from an ACL tear ... attack the interior defense of the Pacers, particularly Roy Hibbert with more heart, determination, and competitive drive than LeBron did in the entire Eastern Conference Finals. Even though he has about 6 - 8 inches on Rose.

:oldlol:

If Rose gets everything going, plays like he did in 2011 and 2012 prior to injury, with an improved Jimmy Butler. This Bulls team can really do some damage if they all remain healthy. Dunleavy is a slept on addition too, he will provide a lot of space for Rose and Boozer. This season leaves me as a Bulls fan with a very optimistic outlook.

[Budadiiii]

Aren't you smarter than to think a Derrick Rose led ball club will ever do any damage at all... in other words, be a legit title contending team..

watch the damn games.. he makes no one better, he stagnates the offense, and plays a reckless abandon game that will leave him prone to injury and mental disease.. hes not russ in the sense he can play however he wants and not be punished for it.. he doesnt have the mental or physical fortitude for that, his joints are inflamed and his tendons are thin and his ligaments are very fragile..

He doesnt play winning basketball, hes a bundle of raw talent but doesnt have a brain capable of being a successful leader.

WATCH THE GAMES AND STOP LETTING YOUR FANHOOD BLIND YOU FROM THE TRUTH

Derrick Rose will only leave you disappointed, whether it be because of constant injuries, inability to make important free throws, or just being a low efficiency chucker in general who stagnates the offense and is unable to do anything outside of his own raw talent. He can dribble, drive, and finish - BUT hes injury prone, cant run an offense, doesnt know how to stay healthy, and is socially awkward, yet - you suck this dudes dick willingly?

grow up

[KG215]

Why wouldn't he look physically healthy? He had surgery a year and a half ago. The rust is to be expected and understandable, though.

[DaSeba5]

He should be 100% healthy. He could have played last season, but he decided to comeback when he was fully healthy.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Why wouldn't he look physically healthy?
Because until you see him on the floor in an actual game, we were to just assume coming back from an ACL tear that he'd have the same game changing explosiveness that he used to have?

Dumb ass.

The un-certainty of him being physically 100% percent is what kept him off the floor from February onwards for the rest of the 2013 season. Were you not paying attention?

The questions around his physical health and abilities is why everyone was so intrigued to see him play, that's why Indiana had to issue out as many media press passes for coverage of this game that was said to be equivalent to a playoff game.

[Budadiiii]

He should be 100% healthy. He could have played last season, but he decided to comeback when he was fully healthy.
As if he wasn't 100% healthy 6 months ago....

Hell give an amputeed soldier 2 years to recover and im sure he would be able to drop 10 points in a preseason game as well.. athletically he would probably look like prime MJ because of the mental discipline those guys have.. unlike Rose of course

I was actually very disappointed with D Rose's athleticism - he displayed poor balance and agility .. i expected a lot more from a guy who has had 2 years to recover with the best medical rehabilitation known to mankind...

im glad im not a D Rose fan, i couldnt live with the constant disappointment from this guy. Plus the way he handles himself in interviews is too cringe worthy for my liking.. his brain processing isnt quick enough to be socially normal

[DaSeba5]

As if he wasn't 100% healthy 6 months ago....

Hell give a amputeed soldier 2 years to recover and im sure he would be able to drop 10 points in a preseason game well.. athletically he would probably look like prime MJ because of the mental discipline those guys had..

I was actually very disappointed with D Rose's athleticism - he displayed poor balance and agility .. i expected a lot more from a guy who has had 2 years to recover with the best medical rehabilitation known to mankind...

im glad im not a D Rose fan, i couldnt live with the constant disappointment from this guy. Plus the way he handles himself in interviews is too cringe worthy for my liking.. his brain processing isnt quick enough to be socially normal

IDK if he was. I didn't follow the news on him because it was silly. It's good for him to comeback for the game, but besides being a star in this league, IDC what he chooses to do. That was his problem to face with the media and fans.

[KG215]

Because until you see him on the floor in an actual game, we were to just assume coming back from an ACL tear that he'd have the same game changing explosiveness that he used to have?

Dumb ass.

Depends on how you define physically healthy. Him being at 100%? Or close to 100%? I mean it's not unreasonable to think that was going to be a given after being 18 months removed from surgery. I know tearing your ACL and having surgery and going through rehab is serious, but it's something players generally come back from this day in age relatively close to what they were before. So no, I wasn't surprised he looked physically healthy.

But if you meant if he'd have the same explosiveness, speed, quickness, etc., that could also be viewed as being a little unsure of himself and some rust after being out for so long. Me, personally, I wasn't surprised he looked healthy and his biggest problem was rust, given the length of time he was out.

I was with you until you resorted to name-calling. But you stay classy.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I question how good his conditioning will be early on more than his knee.

[DuMa]

Rose looked good physically and looked great. active and not afraid of contact.

jumper, FTs and playmaking was shit but that can be remedied over preseason.

I'm more curious how he feels about exploding to the rim after more and more contact. you can be sure defenders will start putting him to the floor to test his body and knee.

[The_Yearning]

Rose looked good physically and looked great. active and not afraid of contact.

jumper, FTs and playmaking was shit but that can be remedied over preseason.

I'm more curious how he feels about exploding to the rim after more and more contact. you can be sure defenders will start putting him to the floor to test his body and knee.

D. Rose is use to harder hits. Dude is Chicago made through and through.

[Young X]

Yeah, he looked healthy, his quickness was there and I like how he wasn't scared to play the same relentless style he did before the injury. He still needs to get his timing and feel for the game back, he looked lost, kept turning the ball over, driving at the wrong times, etc, but that's expected in his 1st game back and is correctable. The important thing is he looked healthy and didn't look concerned about his health. Good sign.

[sportjames23]

Heat fans nervous as fvck.

[FPJ]

Yea, its the 4'th year they are nervous as ****

[robert de niro]

he was probably physically healthy half a year ago, just scared as ****

[Trollsmasher]

He basically looked like a less athletic version of his 2011 self. Speed is the easiest atribute to regain after a major injury. He is not as quick or as explosive as he has been.

He also did not want to shoot jumpers in an obvious fear of someone stepping under him (both time he shot a jumper he adjusted his form to not even touch the guy that was in front of him), which will hinder his mental approach for a long time.

[poido123]

He basically looked like a less athletic version of his 2011 self. Speed is the easiest atribute to regain after a major injury. He is not as quick or as explosive as he has been.

He also did not want to shoot jumpers in an obvious fear of someone stepping under him (both time he shot a jumper he adjusted his form to not even touch the guy that was in front of him), which will hinder his mental approach for a long time.

Why is your name Trollsmasher? It is not befitting of who you are...

If you are so confident Rose is done, why do you bother to keep talking about him? You clearly are disappointed that he made a return and showed glimpses of domination.

You are trying to be a Silk or Montana but failing miserably.

[Trollsmasher]

Why is your name Trollsmasher? It is not befitting of who you are...

If you are so confident Rose is done, why do you bother to keep talking about him? You clearly are disappointed that he made a return and showed glimpses of domination.

You are trying to be a Silk or Montana but failing miserably.
Unlike you watched, I watched the game with homer glasses off.

I know that Rose is feeding you Bulls fans with a lot of BS (aka, I am much better than before, I am stronger, I am faster, I jump higher, my jumpshot is so much better...), but that does not mean everybody is believing him.

[Jameerthefear]

Unlike you watched, I watched the game with homer glasses off.

I know that Rose is feeding you Bulls fans with a lot of BS (aka, I am much better than before, I am stronger, I am faster, I jump higher, my jumpshot is so much better...), but that does not mean everybody is believing him.
yeah no that's bullshit. you were trolling in the game thread

[poido123]

Unlike you watched, I watched the game with homer glasses off.

I know that Rose is feeding you Bulls fans with a lot of BS (aka, I am much better than before, I am stronger, I am faster, I jump higher, my jumpshot is so much better...), but that does not mean everybody is believing him.

I watched the game? Have a look at the gamethread...

We only need Rose to get back to somewhere near where he was before injury. The team is much better and more equipped to challenge the Heat than times past. Butler and Dunleavy will be key for our team, Rose is not who I am worried about so much..Everything I saw in the game tells me we have a promising season ahead and a realistic chance of challenging the top teams.

[Meticode]

Trollsmasher,

If you're going to post on here, at least be semi-serious and not waste our time. As well as your time.

[chips93]

http://insidehoops.com/forum/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=288639

:cheers:

[Trollsmasher]

I watched the game? Have a look at the gamethread...

We only need Rose to get back to somewhere near where he was before injury. The team is much better and more equipped to challenge the Heat than times past. Butler and Dunleavy will be key for our team, Rose is not who I am worried about so much..Everything I saw in the game tells me we have a promising season ahead and a realistic chance of challenging the top teams.
I don't really think you can beat the Heat with Rose not being back to his MVP form at the very least, but well, that's just an opinion. I think that signing of Dunleavy is little overrated, considering Thibs is once again going to ride with Deng/Jimmy for 40-44 minutes per game on his positions and he is also a huge defensive liability.



Trollsmasher,

If you're going to post on here, at least be semi-serious and note waste our time. Much less your time as well.
What is not serious about what I wrote? Did you watch the game? At least the hesitancy while taking a jump shoot was very obvious, resulting in Rose changing his form on both attempts when the defending player came too close to him for his liking.

[Bandito]

He basically looked like a less athletic version of his 2011 self. Speed is the easiest atribute to regain after a major injury. He is not as quick or as explosive as he has been.

He also did not want to shoot jumpers in an obvious fear of someone stepping under him (both time he shot a jumper he adjusted his form to not even touch the guy that was in front of him), which will hinder his mental approach for a long time.
You couldn't be more wrong. I had knee injuries and took me forever to get back to my speed. You have to strengthen the leg muscles and then there is the mental part of it. Heck sometimes when I run I tend to unconsciously control my speed in order to not reinjure my knee.

[Trollsmasher]

You couldn't be more wrong. I had knee injuries and took me forever to get back to my speed. You have to strengthen the leg muscles and then there is the mental part of it. Heck sometimes when I run I tend to unconsciously control my speed in order to not reinjure my knee.
:confusedshrug: I had a knee injury too and just running was the latest thing on my mind and the easiest to get back to. Jumping and quick changing of directios (so typical for Rose) have been much harder to regain, especially in the mental aspect.

[Meticode]

What is not serious about what I wrote? Did you watch the game? At least the hesitancy while taking a jump shoot was very obvious, resulting in Rose changing his form on both attempts when the defending player came too close to him for his liking.

If you think he was hesitant then what is your take on the places where he went in and initiated contact around the hoop and was finishing around the hoop?

So far I totally disagree with what you're typing.

[niko]

he sat out eight months longer than he needed to, is it surprising somehow he's ok?

[Trollsmasher]

If you think he was hesitant then what is your take on the places where he went in and initiated contact around the hoop and was finishing around the hoop?

So far I totally disagree with what you're typing.
You can control what you're doing while going to the rim for pretty much the whole time. And even the way you fall (as seen by Rose yesterday, when collided hard in the paint multiple times, but never feel badly).

When someone steps under you, you can just pray.

Of course I can be mistaken and he justed wanted to show us that he can be as reckless as before and we will see his 'improved' shooting soon:cheers:

[Bandito]

:confusedshrug: I had a knee injury too and just running was the latest thing on my mind and the easiest to get back to. Jumping and quick changing of directios (so typical for Rose) have been much harder to regain, especially in the mental aspect.
I am talking about running on full speed, not simple jogging. In order to get back to my usual running routine , heck even walking I had to go through a couple of months therapy in order to get my strength back. After that it was jogging (took me a couple of months to do a full 1.5 mile under 12 mins and then try to go full speed in which I reinjure my left knee (my right knee was fine) which took me a couple of weeks of resting to get over. Right now I unconsciously don't run fulll speed even though I try because of that mental aspect I have of not trying to reinjure my knee. The only way for me to go all out is if I am playing basketball or football and there is an obvious douche talking trash on the court or field.

Of course my case and Rose's is different. There is also the doctor telling him what to do, and he probably compare his case to Grant Hill's another potential HOF hindered by injuries.

[Wavves]

Only got to look at the highlights, but from the drives that I saw, he looked great.

[NumberSix]

Of course he looked healthy. He last played when LeBron had 2 MVPs and 0 rings.

[poido123]

Of course he looked healthy. He last played when LeBron had 2 MVPs and 0 rings.

Deep down you love Rose :rockon: Which is why you frequent every Rose thread on ISH :oldlol:

[Dro]

He looked fine other than the fact that he didn't do any hopsteps or jumpstops so that remains to be seen...

[nathanjizzle]

can bulls fans stop responding to the desperate trolls?

[97 bulls]

24 people have posted in this thread. Seven are Heat fans. Theyre definitely concerned.

We cant expect much from him its his first game in over a year. He will improve as time gies and his confidence grows

[secund2nun]

Just like Rose himself, his return is massively overrated. They have almost no chance to even win the ECF. Miami is heavy favorites with Indy having the 2nd best chance. Rose does not really improve Chicago's chances of beating Miami much at all. His iso ball and his extreme shot jacking low efficiency scoring does not hurt Miami at all. It plays into the hands of Miami defensive scheme. You beat Miami by using team ball movement to generate 3 point shots (2013 Spurs did a really good job at that even though they fell short) or by a dominant post presence that deters the Miami paint scoring and/or takes advantage of Miami's lack of centers to get easy consistent baskets. Rose does not enhanced any of these 2 factors. I would argue that he actually hurts the first factor.

Rose....let's see...he is a mediocre defender at a position that can't really impact defense much, he is a ball hog ball stopper who plays iso ball and no team ball, his passing is average for a PG, he really doesn't impact rebounding because he is a average sized PG, and his scoring is average as well. In 2011 he had 44.5% fg and 25 ppg on 20 shots per game= average....then in 2012 he was even worse 43.5% fg and 22 ppg on 18 shots per game...oh and he is coming off of a major surgery and he is a small athleticism dependent player.

He is not even a superstar, let alone a star. He is merely a good player...that's it.

There is a reason his FG% was 48.9% his 2nd year, 44.5% his 3rd year, and 43.5% fg his 4th year. Of course Rose is better in his 3rd and 4th season than his 2nd season, but his fg keeps going down from his 2nd season because he was given a larger and larger scoring role as each season passed, but he is simply not good enough to handle that large of a load.

He was taking less than 1 three pointer per game in 2010, yet in 2011 he took nearly 5 and 2012 4.4 attempts per game. He is a bad 3 point shooter, he needs to stop taking those 3 point shots. If there is nothing available in the paint for him then he just needs to pass it, not try to be some hero fake superstar by jacking up 3s. Because of his lack of size he can't just will himself into the paint for superstar quantity level of points like Lebron or a dominant post player can. There is no reason a poor 3 point shooter like Rose should be shooting 4.4 and 4.8 three point attempts per game.

[nathanjizzle]

He is not even a superstar, let alone a star. He is merely a good player...that's it.


:roll:

[TheCorporation]

I watched Rose, rusty, returning from an ACL tear ... attack the interior defense of the Pacers, particularly Roy Hibbert with more heart, determination, and competitive drive than LeBron did in the entire Eastern Conference Finals. Even though he has about 6 - 8 inches on Rose.

:oldlol:

If Rose gets everything going, plays like he did in 2011 and 2012 prior to injury, with an improved Jimmy Butler. This Bulls team can really do some damage if they all remain healthy. Dunleavy is a slept on addition too, he will provide a lot of space for Rose and Boozer. This season leaves me as a Bulls fan with a very optimistic outlook.

:lol

Yep, even though Rose's 2010 Bulls lost 4-1 to Miami when:

Miami did not have Bird Man, Beasley, Ray Allen, or Oden. But did have Bibby, Joel Anthony getting starting minutes lmfao

And...

Chicago DID have a younger Boozer, and Asik

Now, with the addition of Jimmy God King Butler (JGKB for those of you kids that like acronyms) they will prevail and beat the Heat in a 7 game series.

:biggums:

All hail Jimmy God King Butler :bowdown:

[nathanjizzle]

:lol

Yep, even though Rose's 2010 Bulls lost 4-1 to Miami when:

Miami did not have Bird Man, Beasley, Ray Allen, or Oden. But did have Bibby, Joel Anthony getting starting minutes lmfao

And...

Chicago DID have a younger Boozer, and Asik

Now, with the addition of Jimmy God King Butler (JGKB for those of you kids that like acronyms) they will prevail and beat the Heat in a 7 game series.

:biggums:

All hail Jimmy God King Butler :bowdown:

is rose shooting poorly again? thats the only reason the bulls lost that series.

[secund2nun]

is rose shooting poorly again? thats the only reason the bulls lost that series.

Yes he is shooting that poorly again. Rose is a poor shooter. He also shot 37% in the Indy series that year. Also Miami is much better and deeper since then.

In the one playoff game he played the following playoffs he was 9/23 shooting 39% fg against lowly Philly.

Rose shot just 43.5% in the 11-12 regular season and 44.5% fg the season before.

[97 bulls]

:lol

Yep, even though Rose's 2010 Bulls lost 4-1 to Miami when:

Miami did not have Bird Man, Beasley, Ray Allen, or Oden. But did have Bibby, Joel Anthony getting starting minutes lmfao

And...

Chicago DID have a younger Boozer, and Asik

Now, with the addition of Jimmy God King Butler (JGKB for those of you kids that like acronyms) they will prevail and beat the Heat in a 7 game series.

:biggums:

All hail Jimmy God King Butler :bowdown:
To be fair, Asik was hurt in 11. And Boozer wasnt a presence. If Butler can do what he did to James this past year this year, in a possible playoff matchup, Then I like the Bulls chances.

[Pointguard]

Just like Rose himself, his return is massively overrated. They have almost no chance to even win the ECF. Miami is heavy favorites with Indy having the 2nd best chance. Rose does not really improve Chicago's chances of beating Miami much at all. His iso ball and his extreme shot jacking low efficiency scoring does not hurt Miami at all. It plays into the hands of Miami defensive scheme. You beat Miami by using team ball movement to generate 3 point shots (2013 Spurs did a really good job at that even though they fell short) or by a dominant post presence that deters the Miami paint scoring and/or takes advantage of Miami's lack of centers to get easy consistent baskets. Rose does not enhanced any of these 2 factors. I would argue that he actually hurts the first factor.
Sorry but Dallas didn't do a good job of either of those things.



Rose....let's see...he is a mediocre defender at a position that can't really impact defense much, Name me a player that played a healthy Wade better than Rose did in the post season?


he is a ball hog ball stopper who plays iso ball and no team ball, his passing is average for a PG, he really doesn't impact rebounding because he is a average sized PG, and his scoring is average as well. By average you mean tops at his position?


In 2011 he had 44.5% fg and 25 ppg on 20 shots per game= average....
Name me two super players that scored more in the paint than Rose that year. Name me a better penetrator?



then in 2012 he was even worse 43.5% fg and 22 ppg on 18 shots per game...oh and he is coming off of a major surgery and he is a small athleticism dependent player.

He is not even a superstar, let alone a star. He is merely a good player...that's it.
Miami three superstars. OKC one superstar two in the making. Lakers one superstar, another star, champions. Boston one superstar three stars. SA two superstars, one star experienced team.

Derrick Rose with no other player on first, second or team anything or one player in the top 15 of anything in the production category. And who had the best record in the league despite injuries, new system, new coach?


There is a reason his FG% was 48.9% his 2nd year, 44.5% his 3rd year, and 43.5% fg his 4th year. Of course Rose is better in his 3rd and 4th season than his 2nd season, but his fg keeps going down from his 2nd season because he was given a larger and larger scoring role as each season passed, but he is simply not good enough to handle that large of a load. His FG% went down because he had better shooters to give him more operating room in the early years. He shot better as the years progressed but he also had more tougher shots which brought his percentage down. Rose also takes a great majority of pressure shots in the later years. Plus the team didn't run a lot of sets to free him up in the last two years. But his floater and range improved every year. Thibes wasn't into spacing much his first year as coach.


He was taking less than 1 three pointer per game in 2010, yet in 2011 he took nearly 5 and 2012 4.4 attempts per game. He is a bad 3 point shooter, he needs to stop taking those 3 point shots. If there is nothing available in the paint for him then he just needs to pass it, not try to be some hero fake superstar by jacking up 3s. Tell me the offensive scheme of the Bulls? Do you see Rose calling his own number? Who do you think is calling the plays? What superstar player has won more games percentage wise the last years that Rose has played?

[aj1987]

Name me a player that played a healthy Wade better than Rose did in the post season?
Weren't Bogans/Brewer/Korver guarding Wade?


Name me two super players that scored more in the paint than Rose that year. Name me a better penetrator?
Wade and Lebron for both.


Miami three superstars.
Bosh is not a superstar.

The guy you're arguing with (secund2nun) is an idiot. It's best to ignore him.

[Pointguard]

Weren't Bogans/Brewer/Korver guarding Wade?
Not in the majority of the fourth quarters. This is not that long ago...


Wade and Lebron for both.
In what world. Both were getting in each other's way that year. Neither was close to being the same penetrator as Rose was. Lebron got most of his points in the paint on break aways. Wade didn't score more in the paint than Rose that year.


Bosh is not a superstar.
He's the highest paid player on his team. He sacrificed a lot but was a 24 and 11 PF when nobody else was close to that. From the bigs he had the best combo inside and outside game in '10. His game got sacrificed but he was at least a bonafide star if not superstar. And my point is that if Rose is a superstar by comparison to the loaded teams that couldn't win more games than his team which had its second and third best players missing and underperforming that whole year. Miami had more megastar talent than any team, no matter how much you might try to belittle Bosh.


The guy you're arguing with (secund2nun) is an idiot. It's best to ignore him.
Unfamiliar with him.

[MontaEllis24]

he looked ok playing although whenever he drives to the hoop his landing looks a bit awkward maybe its just me.

[secund2nun]

Sorry but Dallas didn't do a good job of either of those things.


That's completely not true. Dallas shot well from the 3 point line against Miami because of their great ball movement. Dirk, in particular killed Miami from down town at key situations. Ball movement is how you exploit the Miami D just like SA did in the finals this season.

Also the Dallas D lead by one of the best defensive players in the league in Chandler prevented Lebron and Miami from slashing to the basketball like they normally do. Plus 2011 Miami was their first season together. They were much worse back then compared to now. They had no chemistry at all on offense. It was pure Iso ball. These days because of the chemistry team ball movement (and better 3 point shooters on Miami) they are able to score much better against teams with defensive centers like Indy, but it still slows them down as they still struggled against the Spurs because of Duncan in the paint and were taken to 7 by Indy. 2011 Miami would have lost to both Indy and SA.



Name me a player that played a healthy Wade better than Rose did in the post season?

Rose didn't play Wade well. Chicago's team defense makes it hard for Miami to score, especially in 2011 which you are referring to when Miami had no chemistry. Noah in the paint and the other top defenders on Chicago made it tough on Miami.

Rose is an average defender. It's easy to blow past him, but for a paint scorer like Wade he can't score as well if the paint is packed...but the heat now can pass well to exploit Ds and score in the paint even with tough defensive centers in there....something they could not do in 2011. Just look at how 2011 Miami had Lebron and Wade shot a bunch of 3s against Boston and Chicago, something they would never do now.


By average you mean tops at his position?
Name me two super players that scored more in the paint than Rose that year. Name me a better penetrator?


How is he a top scorer? By every statistical measure his scoring is not that impressive. How is 25 ppg on 20 shots per game 44.5% fg impressive? Or 22 ppg on 17 spg on 43.5% fg? I'll take many PG's scoring ability over that. But just to be clear I find PGs as a whole to be overrated. Jacking up that many shots per game does not help out the team. Chicago needs to play team ball on offense. Rose is not good enough to force the scoring through like Durant or Lebron is.

If Rose quit the 3s his scoring would be impressive, but not superstar level because he is not a superstar type player.


Miami three superstars. OKC one superstar two in the making. Lakers one superstar, another star, champions. Boston one superstar three stars. SA two superstars, one star experienced team.

Bosh is not a superstar, but having a lack of offensive teammates does not prevent you from scoring well anyways. Also Rose gets to use most of his energy on offense because of his great defensive teammates.

Look at what Lebron scored on Cleveland back with his lowly teammates. He was still a great scorer. Durant in his 2nd season was a great scorer despite his poor team. Wade was killing it on Miami before Lebron came despite his lack of teammates. What about Tmac on the 02 Magic with no teammates? Shaq on Orlando? The list goes on and on.



His FG% went down because he had better shooters to give him more operating room in the early years. He shot better as the years progressed but he also had more tougher shots which brought his percentage down.

Rose is clearly a poor 3 point shooter. There are much better options for Chicago to shoot the 3 than Rose. He has to increase his ball IQ. A poor 3 point shooter shooting 5 threes a game is not good.


Rose also takes a great majority of pressure shots in the later years. Plus the team didn't run a lot of sets to free him up in the last two years. But his floater and range improved every year. Thibes wasn't into spacing much his first year as coach.

That's Chicago's problem. Rose is not good enough to force the scoring through. He is not Durant or Lebron and unfortunately he is not a great passer for a PG to dish it out to others.

At 6'3 190 with limited passing he will never be a super star. He is good (when he stops jacking 3s) and the offense is not forced through him, but a star he is not.

Plus the big question on how he will be able to cut and in the future avoid injury. Even 220 pound Wade is injury prone because he lives in the paint. 190 pound Rose living in the paint is a recipe for being injury prone.


Tell me the offensive scheme of the Bulls? Do you see Rose calling his own number? Who do you think is calling the plays? What superstar player has won more games percentage wise the last years that Rose has played?

I am not sure who designs it. I am guessing Thibs calls for it that way and it needs to change.

Chicago's strenghts are their defense and rebounding, not their mediocre offense. The 2011 bulls had the #1 rebounding and #1 defense in the NBA...while they had the #17 offense in efficiency.

[secund2nun]

The guy you're arguing with (secund2nun) is an idiot. It's best to ignore him.

Yes because speaking facts makes me an idiot. :facepalm

Just because I don't blindly believe whatever the media shoves down my throat does not mean I am an idiot. It's the opposite actually. I don't buy any of the sports media's attempt to artificially create a superstar in Rose to generate hype in big market Chicago.

In what world is 25 ppg on 20 spg 44.5% fg (and a terrible playoffs) and 22 ppg on 17 spg 43.5 fg (and he was terrible in the one PO game he played 9/23 shooting) make him a great scorer? We all know his defense is average not that PGs can really impact defense anyways, his passing is average for a PG, and he does not impact rebounding.

When you look at the results you will see the truth. Just because the media shoved it down your throat does not mean you have to believe it.

[poido123]

Yes because speaking facts makes me an idiot. :facepalm

Just because I don't blindly believe whatever the media shoves down my throat does not mean I am an idiot. It's the opposite actually. I don't buy any of the sports media's attempt to artificially create a superstar in Rose to generate hype in big market Chicago.

In what world is 25 ppg on 20 spg 44.5% fg (and a terrible playoffs) and 22 ppg on 17 spg 43.5 fg (and he was terrible in the one PO game he played 9/23 shooting) make him a great scorer? We all know his defense is average not that PGs can really impact defense anyways, his passing is average for a PG, and he does not impact rebounding.

When you look at the results you will see the truth. Just because the media shoved it down your throat does not mean you have to believe it.


Just like Lebron right? You don't seem to have a problem taking in the media hype created for him. :rolleyes:

Since when is a PG supposed to impact rebounding? :oldlol:

[poido123]

Just like Rose himself, his return is massively overrated. They have almost no chance to even win the ECF. Miami is heavy favorites with Indy having the 2nd best chance. Rose does not really improve Chicago's chances of beating Miami much at all. His iso ball and his extreme shot jacking low efficiency scoring does not hurt Miami at all. It plays into the hands of Miami defensive scheme. You beat Miami by using team ball movement to generate 3 point shots (2013 Spurs did a really good job at that even though they fell short) or by a dominant post presence that deters the Miami paint scoring and/or takes advantage of Miami's lack of centers to get easy consistent baskets. Rose does not enhanced any of these 2 factors. I would argue that he actually hurts the first factor.

Rose....let's see...he is a mediocre defender at a position that can't really impact defense much, he is a ball hog ball stopper who plays iso ball and no team ball, his passing is average for a PG, he really doesn't impact rebounding because he is a average sized PG, and his scoring is average as well. In 2011 he had 44.5% fg and 25 ppg on 20 shots per game= average....then in 2012 he was even worse 43.5% fg and 22 ppg on 18 shots per game...oh and he is coming off of a major surgery and he is a small athleticism dependent player.

He is not even a superstar, let alone a star. He is merely a good player...that's it.

There is a reason his FG% was 48.9% his 2nd year, 44.5% his 3rd year, and 43.5% fg his 4th year. Of course Rose is better in his 3rd and 4th season than his 2nd season, but his fg keeps going down from his 2nd season because he was given a larger and larger scoring role as each season passed, but he is simply not good enough to handle that large of a load.

He was taking less than 1 three pointer per game in 2010, yet in 2011 he took nearly 5 and 2012 4.4 attempts per game. He is a bad 3 point shooter, he needs to stop taking those 3 point shots. If there is nothing available in the paint for him then he just needs to pass it, not try to be some hero fake superstar by jacking up 3s. Because of his lack of size he can't just will himself into the paint for superstar quantity level of points like Lebron or a dominant post player can. There is no reason a poor 3 point shooter like Rose should be shooting 4.4 and 4.8 three point attempts per game.


Bulls have never needed Rose to do it all. The team has come a long way since 2011, they have better floor spacing, better team chemistry and better pieces to deal with Miami. It was a pretty close series and many Heat fans don't acknowledge that fact. The addition of Dunleavy and Butler is quite significant, you may not understand why that is but I'm sure you will see soon enough if we finally get to see a healthy Bulls team matchup against Miami.

[Cali Syndicate]

A healthy rose is the best pg in the game and a top five player. Doesn't even look like he's lost a step, looks just as explosive. Apparently he's been working hard on his game too. Just a matter of time before he hits that rhythm and plays as an elite guard like he did in 2011. Whether he deserved that MVP or not, drose was a top player in the L. Bulls without him has been dangerous as it is. When Nate was playing quality ball, bulls were tough to beat. Rose can bring that impact day in day out.

Rose/cp3
Westbrook/Parker

Curry/Irving/DWill/rondo

Rubio/lawson/Jennings/Lillard/Holliday/Conley

Lowry/dragic/jameer/Calderon/teague/collison/walker

Etc....

[NumberSix]

OVER
Rated

[Pointguard]

That's completely not true. Dallas shot well from the 3 point line against Miami because of their great ball movement. Dirk, in particular killed Miami from down town at key situations. Ball movement is how you exploit the Miami D just like SA did in the finals this season.


They did to a degree but Rose can get hot from outside and has gone on crazy shooting sprees. Dallas didn't shoot well from 3 pt land over all but did make key shots. But every team can get hot. Dirk shot worse than Rose 43% in the last three games of the Miami series - he shot more like 38% in those key three games.


Also the Dallas D lead by one of the best defensive players in the league in Chandler prevented Lebron and Miami from slashing to the basketball like they normally do. Plus 2011 Miami was their first season together. They were much worse back then compared to now. They had no chemistry at all on offense. It was pure Iso ball. [
You seem to have forgotten that the Bulls were a new team as well. With far less experienced players and a coach that didn't emphasize offensive sets. Plus they had injuries so Rose was way more isolated than Lebron or Wade with a less experienced team going thru more changes. Rose had way more bailout responsibilities than either of them. Every team focused on Rose with their defense. Yet they won more games than the four other super teams with super stars.



Rose didn't play Wade well. Chicago's team defense makes it hard for Miami to score, especially in 2011 which you are referring to when Miami had no chemistry. Noah in the paint and the other top defenders on Chicago made it tough on Miami.
Once again you bring up Miami's lack of chemistry when the Bulls had a real big problem breaking a trap. There was not one player that shot consistently from the outside the whole year. And Miami was a much quicker team that year. Miami will be hard to beat but I think most teams will go at Lebron this year. He acts weird when there is consistent pressure on him and Miami seemingly can't win without him going strong. Everybody is going to have trouble with Miami and nobody has their talent. But it wouldn't surprise me if the Bulls give them a go and even have a better record.


Rose is an average defender. It's easy to blow past him,
If Rose is an average defender then why didn't any of the elite PG's have a big game on him. Surely one of them would have had their average game against him, but none did? He was blocking and stealing the ball from Deron in the open court, he not only took over the games against OKC (Westbrook) Boston (Rondo) and SA (Parker) but outplayed them significantly. When CP3 decided to showboat his dribbling which visibly annoyed Rose - Rose went into a different gear and ended the game. CP3 had no response and was thoroughly outplayed. I didn't see any of them blow past him.Not one. Wade was confused when he couldn't out muscle him and he didn't blow past him either.



How is he a top scorer? By every statistical measure his scoring is not that impressive. How is 25 ppg on 20 shots per game 44.5% fg impressive? Or 22 ppg on 17 spg on 43.5% fg? I'll take many PG's scoring ability over that. But just to be clear I find PGs as a whole to be overrated. Jacking up that many shots per game does not help out the team. Chicago needs to play team ball on offense. Rose is not good enough to force the scoring through like Durant or Lebron is.

If Rose quit the 3s his scoring would be impressive, but not superstar level because he is not a superstar type player.
Rose scoring responsibility is more critical to his teams success than Lebron who has 5 other scores on his team or Durant who has Westbrook. Teams go after the lone wolf because they know he is their bread and butter. If Rose doesn't shoot threes who on the team is going to spread the floor? Miami has one of the best shooting teams ever. Durant is a great shooter but when Westbrook went down he suffered big time. Dirk suffered when his troops started missing.



Rose is clearly a poor 3 point shooter. There are much better options for Chicago to shoot the 3 than Rose. He has to increase his ball IQ. A poor 3 point shooter shooting 5 threes a game is not good.

33% and 31% from three is average for a PG and certainly not bad. He has more responsibility for his offense than anybody you can name. He is responsible for the Bulls outside game, inside game and distribution, AND he wins more than anybody you can name. How is he not a star? And he's arguably the most exciting player in the game. Last year the highlight reel sucked big time. There was no MVP race. Even the allstar game sucked - people were talking about Kobe's block on Lebron.


I am not sure who designs it. I am guessing Thibs calls for it that way and it needs to change.

Yes he does. And teams realized that the play book was Rose and they tried to isolate him and pressure him.



Chicago's strenghts are their defense and rebounding, not their mediocre offense. The 2011 bulls had the #1 rebounding and #1 defense in the NBA...while they had the #17 offense in efficiency.

You can't win with just defense and rebounding. No team ever has.

[secund2nun]

Just like Lebron right? You don't seem to have a problem taking in the media hype created for him. :rolleyes:

Since when is a PG supposed to impact rebounding? :oldlol:

I don't blindly believe in any hype, but in Lebron's case he actually is a superstar. It is warranted. just look how dominant he is.

Rose is not a superstar yet is routinely in people's top 10 list and that is a joke.

Exactly. A PG usually does not impact rebounding and defense. It shows how overrated PGs are and to be honest Rose's scoring is not impressive and his passing is average for a PG.

[CavaliersFTW]

Aren't you smarter than to think a Derrick Rose led ball club will ever do any damage at all... in other words, be a legit title contending team..

watch the damn games.. he makes no one better, he stagnates the offense, and plays a reckless abandon game that will leave him prone to injury and mental disease.. hes not russ in the sense he can play however he wants and not be punished for it.. he doesnt have the mental or physical fortitude for that, his joints are inflamed and his tendons are thin and his ligaments are very fragile..

He doesnt play winning basketball, hes a bundle of raw talent but doesnt have a brain capable of being a successful leader.

WATCH THE GAMES AND STOP LETTING YOUR FANHOOD BLIND YOU FROM THE TRUTH

Derrick Rose will only leave you disappointed, whether it be because of constant injuries, inability to make important free throws, or just being a low efficiency chucker in general who stagnates the offense and is unable to do anything outside of his own raw talent. He can dribble, drive, and finish - BUT hes injury prone, cant run an offense, doesnt know how to stay healthy, and is socially awkward, yet - you suck this dudes dick willingly?

grow up
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/incredulous.gif

[nathanjizzle]

stop responding to him. once he said rose is just merely a "good" player, you guys should have known he is extremely ignorant about rose or he is very biased because of the guy in his avy. dont take him seriously.

[secund2nun]

They did to a degree but Rose can get hot from outside and has gone on crazy shooting sprees. Dallas didn't shoot well from 3 pt land over all but did make key shots. But every team can get hot. Dirk shot worse than Rose 43% in the last three games of the Miami series - he shot more like 38% in those key three games.

Rose can get hot just like any player can, but its rare. Dallas got lucky they faced 11 Miami. Iso-ball is easy to stop even with Lebron and Wade. But Dirk is a proven 3 point shooter anyways. But it was not just Dirk, Dallas as a whole shot well.


You seem to have forgotten that the Bulls were a new team as well. With far less experienced players and a coach that didn't emphasize offensive sets. Plus they had injuries so Rose was way more isolated than Lebron or Wade with a less experienced team going thru more changes. Rose had way more bailout responsibilities than either of them. Every team focused on Rose with their defense. Yet they won more games than the four other super teams with super stars.


The Bulls were new, but not much has changed. When Rose returns its still gonna be low efficiency hero shot chucking just like it was in 11-12.

Rose's bailout responsibilities didn't mean much. They cruised to the ECF thanks to their #1 defense and #1 rebound, not their mediocre #17 offense that Rose led. They probably would have had a better offense if they didn't force it through Rose. He does not have a good enough passing nor scoring ability to do that.


Once again you bring up Miami's lack of chemistry when the Bulls had a real big problem breaking a trap. There was not one player that shot consistently from the outside the whole year. And Miami was a much quicker team that year. Miami will be hard to beat but I think most teams will go at Lebron this year. He acts weird when there is consistent pressure on him and Miami seemingly can't win without him going strong. Everybody is going to have trouble with Miami and nobody has their talent. But it wouldn't surprise me if the Bulls give them a go and even have a better record.


The Bulls have had more chemistry and better spacing will help some, but it won't make much of a difference. Rose is 190. He is not a paint scoring machine like Lebron or Wade and never will be.


If Rose is an average defender then why didn't any of the elite PG's have a big game on him. Surely one of them would have had their average game against him, but none did? He was blocking and stealing the ball from Deron in the open court, he not only took over the games against OKC (Westbrook) Boston (Rondo) and SA (Parker) but outplayed them significantly. When CP3 decided to showboat his dribbling which visibly annoyed Rose - Rose went into a different gear and ended the game. CP3 had no response and was thoroughly outplayed. I didn't see any of them blow past him.Not one. Wade was confused when he couldn't out muscle him and he didn't blow past him either.

Why didn't any elite PG have a big game against him? Because Chicago has sick defenders and a defensive minded coach. There is a reason people say that PG's don't affect defense much. If they get blown by there is still a center in the paint to deter people.



Rose scoring responsibility is more critical to his teams success than Lebron who has 5 other scores on his team or Durant who has Westbrook. Teams go after the lone wolf because they know he is their bread and butter. If Rose doesn't shoot threes who on the team is going to spread the floor? Miami has one of the best shooting teams ever. Durant is a great shooter but when Westbrook went down he suffered big time. Dirk suffered when his troops started missing.


Lebron's scoring responsibility is more important. If Lebron does not score a high volume (higher than Rose. if Lebron scored merely 25 or 23 ppg like Rose does that would cripple Miami) and he has to do it on a much higher efficiency than Rose. If Rose clunks (like he always does) Chicago will still win on defense and rebounding alone just like Indy in 11 or how they got the #1 seed despite Rose's chucking.

If they played team ball their offense would actually improve. Rose does a poor job carrying the offense because he is not good enough to run an offense thru.




33% and 31% from three is average for a PG and certainly not bad. He has more responsibility for his offense than anybody you can name. He is responsible for the Bulls outside game, inside game and distribution, AND he wins more than anybody you can name. How is he not a star? And he's arguably the most exciting player in the game. Last year the highlight reel sucked big time. There was no MVP race. Even the allstar game sucked - people were talking about Kobe's block on Lebron.

31-33% is below average. But most people who shoot 31-33% don't jack up 5 three attempts per game. That is really harmful.

He does not need to shoot that many 3s. There are better 3 point shooters on Chicago.

We will have to disagree. I feel that Chicago wins because of their team defense, rebounding not because of their mediocre offense which is carried by Rose and his mediocre stats. If a better offensive coach coached Chicago their offense would be much better because he would not force everything through Rose.

If you are gonna force things through a PG that PG better have elite scoring ability (really rare for a PG) or elite passing ability (Rose is a low IQ chucker with limited passing abilities)




You can't win with just defense and rebounding. No team ever has.

You can't win a title with no offense but you can get a high seed and go deep in the playoffs with elite defense, elite rebounding , and average offense which is how Chicago is built. Chicago actually has above average potential on offense but they will never realize it because they falsely believe Rose is a superstar and keep shoving the offense through him.

[secund2nun]

stop responding to him. once he said rose is just merely a "good" player, you guys should have known he is extremely ignorant about rose or he is very biased because of the guy in his avy. dont take him seriously.

No bias here. Just the truth. If you look at results it will show that Rose is not a star, but that doesn't jive with the media's propoganda so people won't accept it.

Sure I am a Lebron fan, but if you are legit I call you legit. Dwight Howard is elite along with Durant, Duncan. How come I don't think those guys are overrated?

[longtime lurker]

Good to see Rose back to form. I can't wait to see him and the Bulls cause some havoc this season.

[nathanjizzle]

No bias here. Just the truth. If you look at results it will show that Rose is not a star, but that doesn't jive with the media's propoganda so people won't accept it.

Sure I am a Lebron fan, but if you are legit I call you legit. Dwight Howard is elite along with Durant, Duncan. How come I don't think those guys are overrated?

because those guys dont have the attention and popularity that rose has right now, thats the truth. thats why lebron fans are hating in every rose thread. if durant had the attention and popularity that rose has you would be on his nuts too trying to discredit him.
the only posters on this forum that go into rose threads and hate are lebron stans and 1 westbrook stan. so are you saying its just a coincidence that lebron is in your avy and you are the exception? you obviously arnt when you say things like rose is just a "good" player.

actually your real biased comes from what you think a superstar should be. as you listed lebron durant dwight and duncan. your biased comes from your ignorance on not seeing the dynamics of what a point guard and shooting guard can bring. so in your world a point guard nor shooting guard can be "legit" and are inferior compared to bigger dominate players.

[NumberSix]

because those guys dont have the attention and popularity that rose has right now, thats the truth. thats why lebron fans are hating in every rose thread. if durant had the attention and popularity that rose has you would be on his nuts too trying to discredit him.
Yeah, Durant has no media attention. :rolleyes:


Who in the media thinks Rose is better than Durant?


Lol. No attention.:roll: :roll:


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to nathanjizzle again

[nathanjizzle]

Yeah, Durant has no media attention. :rolleyes:


Who in the media thinks Rose is better than Durant?


Lol. No attention.:roll: :roll:

comprehension, i never said durant had no media attention but thats a good try for a retard like yourself.

rose is 2nd best jersey seller, he was voted a favorite player over durant in the year he didnt play. hes more popular than durant:roll:

rose is even more likeable than lebron. thats where the insecure lebron stans come in.

[Pointguard]

Rose can get hot just like any player can, but its rare. Dallas got lucky they faced 11 Miami. Iso-ball is easy to stop even with Lebron and Wade. But Dirk is a proven 3 point shooter anyways. But it was not just Dirk, Dallas as a whole shot well.

Dirk was far from the best three point shooter for his team in that series. Dallas shot 45%. If Lebron had chosen his moment of weakness against Chicago the East would have won it that year.




The Bulls were new, but not much has changed. When Rose returns its still gonna be low efficiency hero shot chucking just like it was in 11-12.
Why? Because you said so?


Rose's bailout responsibilities didn't mean much. They cruised to the ECF thanks to their #1 defense and #1 rebound, not their mediocre #17 offense that Rose led. They probably would have had a better offense if they didn't force it through Rose. He does not have a good enough passing nor scoring ability to do that.

Without Rose they barely beat a team that didn't want to be in the playoffs. Thibes is running a full fledged offense now, anyway.



The Bulls have had more chemistry and better spacing will help some, but it won't make much of a difference. Rose is 190. He is not a paint scoring machine like Lebron or Wade and never will be. Rose scored more than Wade in the paint in '11.


Why didn't any elite PG have a big game against him? Because Chicago has sick defenders and a defensive minded coach. There is a reason people say that PG's don't affect defense much. If they get blown by there is still a center in the paint to deter people.

Rose is the only player on Chicago that is a top five shot blocker at his position. The only major penetrator in the league (Rose was easily number 1) in '!! was Tony Parker and apparently didn't see those games or you wouldn't be talking like this. Chicago had a great perimeter defense - where you can't really help out much. And like I said there were very few slashers at the PG position.


-
Lebron's scoring responsibility is more important. If Lebron does not score a high volume (higher than Rose. if Lebron scored merely 25 or 23 ppg like Rose does that would cripple Miami) and he has to do it on a much higher efficiency than Rose. If Rose clunks (like he always does) Chicago will still win on defense and rebounding alone just like Indy in 11 or how they got the #1 seed despite Rose's chucking.

:roll: So if we take off three or five points off of Rose's and Lebron's scoring it will affect a team that has Wade and Bosh who were scoring about 8 - 10 ppg cumulatively off of their regular averages without Lebron more. Doesn't make an ounce of sense. Not only that, but Rose kept his team steady and with the best record despite big injuries for over half the year.



If they played team ball their offense would actually improve. Rose does a poor job carrying the offense because he is not good enough to run an offense thru.
Who won more played games percentage wise than Rose that year? Simple question. "Poor job" is your delusional blind haterism gone mad.



31-33% is below average. But most people who shoot 31-33% don't jack up 5 three attempts per game. That is really harmful.
Not among elite PGs. He was right on par with Westbrook, Rondo and Parker.



He does not need to shoot that many 3s. There are better 3 point shooters on Chicago.

We will have to disagree. I feel that Chicago wins because of their team defense, rebounding not because of their mediocre offense which is carried by Rose and his mediocre stats. If a better offensive coach coached Chicago their offense would be much better because he would not force everything through Rose.

Once again you are talking about a guy whose team did very well against the super teams when Rose was healthy - in fact they dominated the super teams after one month into the season. They didn't lose a game to the elite after a month and two weeks into the season. Sure they needed playoff help because talent and speed of Miami got to them. The Bulls had defense and rebounding the last two years and you only kidding yourself if you thought they were beating any of the super teams. But with Rose they have a great chance at having the best record and conference finals with their lone star than the five super teams that have crazy talent.



You can't win a title with no offense but you can get a high seed and go deep in the playoffs with elite defense, elite rebounding , and average offense which is how Chicago is built. Chicago actually has above average potential on offense but they will never realize it because they falsely believe Rose is a superstar and keep shoving the offense through him.

Sorry only one team has dominated the superteams in the last few years. And that team without Rose isn't winning anything. But Rose without other stars is the only one that has been able to do that. The question isn't "is he a star?" Its more like what type of supernova is he?

[secund2nun]

because those guys dont have the attention and popularity that rose has right now, thats the truth. thats why lebron fans are hating in every rose thread. if durant had the attention and popularity that rose has you would be on his nuts too trying to discredit him.
the only posters on this forum that go into rose threads and hate are lebron stans and 1 westbrook stan. so are you saying its just a coincidence that lebron is in your avy and you are the exception? you obviously arnt when you say things like rose is just a "good" player.

actually your real biased comes from what you think a superstar should be. as you listed lebron durant dwight and duncan. your biased comes from your ignorance on not seeing the dynamics of what a point guard and shooting guard can bring. so in your world a point guard nor shooting guard can be "legit" and are inferior compared to bigger dominate players.

What you think I think is completely wrong. Durant is legit. He is an elite player. A guy who can score extremely well (legendary scoring ability), rebound well, and now even pass some. Also while he is not a superstar defender, his defense has improved and his frame can bother some people. He is far superior to Rose in nearly every category of the game aside from passing and slashing (but his scoring is way better than Rose' overall). Even if Durant played for a big market I would not bash his abilities. He is not a fraud like Rose. He is legit.

Look at Rose' mediocre 25 ppg on 20 spg or 23 ppg 44.5 fg% on 17 spg 43.5% fg, terrible playoff numbers and compare that with Durant's far superior scoring and rebounding ability plus his much better playoff performances. Results are why I call Durant legit while Rose is a fake star, not the size of their market.

Dwight Howard played for big market LA last season and I never called him overrated. I always thought he was the real deal. I have been calling Melo extremely overrated from even his Denver days. I never called Ewing underrated and he played for NY.

If you have seen my posts before this has nothing to do with Rose playing for Chicago. I consistently say that PGs and SGs are overrated while centers and true PFs are underrated. I call Brandon Jennings one of the worst players in the NBA and a vet min bench scrub and he played for the small market Bucks. I can Damian Lillard overrated and he plays for a medium market. Ultimately, regardless of position I find players who can't impact defense much, shoot a lot of shots with low efficiency, and are ball hogs extremely overrated. It is usually PGs and SGs, but not always. Melo is an example of a non pg non sg overrated player.

You have ignorance for believing SGs and PGs impact the game that much. Centers are where it's at. Post defense, post rebounding, post scoring is how you win games aside from rare perimeter freaks like Lebron and Durant.

Look what happened in the 3 seasons prime Kobe did not play with a HOF big man.....3 seasons, 2 first round losses, 1 missed playoffs, and 2 7th seeds.

[Go Getter]

What you think I think is completely wrong. Durant is legit. He is an elite player. A guy who can score extremely well (legendary scoring ability), rebound well, and now even pass some. Also while he is not a superstar defender, his defense has improved and his frame can bother some people. He is far superior to Rose in nearly every category of the game aside from passing and slashing (but his scoring is way better than Rose' overall). Even if Durant played for a big market I would not bash his abilities. He is not a fraud like Rose. He is legit.

Look at Rose' mediocre 25 ppg on 20 spg or 23 ppg 44.5 fg% on 17 spg 43.5% fg, terrible playoff numbers and compare that with Durant's far superior scoring and rebounding ability plus his much better playoff performances. Results are why I call Durant legit while Rose is a fake star, not the size of their market.

Dwight Howard played for big market LA last season and I never called him overrated. I always thought he was the real deal. I have been calling Melo extremely overrated from even his Denver days. I never called Ewing underrated and he played for NY.

If you have seen my posts before this has nothing to do with Rose playing for Chicago. I consistently say that PGs and SGs are overrated while centers and true PFs are underrated. I call Brandon Jennings one of the worst players in the NBA and a vet min bench scrub and he played for the small market Bucks. I can Damian Lillard overrated and he plays for a medium market. Ultimately, regardless of position I find players who can't impact defense much, shoot a lot of shots with low efficiency, and are ball hogs extremely overrated. It is usually PGs and SGs, but not always. Melo is an example of a non pg non sg overrated player.

You have ignorance for believing SGs and PGs impact the game that much. Centers are where it's at. Post defense, post rebounding, post scoring is how you win games aside from rare perimeter freaks like Lebron and Durant.

Look what happened in the 3 seasons prime Kobe did not play with a HOF big man.....3 seasons, 2 first round losses, 1 missed playoffs, and 2 7th seeds.

You look at everything but WINS. Rose impacted our team by leading us to WINS. Screw position, stats, and petty emotions and conjecture--it's about winning and Rose has been a winner so far.

[Go Getter]

In 2011-2012, Rose became only the third player in the past thirty years of the NBA to record 2,000 points and 600 assists in a single season. The other two players were LeBron James and Michael Jordan.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can use stats to prop D. Rose us just like detractors can use them to tear him down.

Rose shot 49% from the field his second year as a scoring PG...has Kobe ever shot 49% from the field?

[Jacks3]

Kobe in 2013 at the age of 34 was significantly more efficient than Rose has ever been...so yeah.

[Go Getter]

Kobe in 2013 at the age of 34 was significantly more efficient than Rose has ever been...so yeah.
Kobe has never shot above like 47% and he has had top-notch post players/bigs to play with and quality coaching.

Rose shot 49% (almost 50% really--in his 2nd season) on a team coached by VDN and no offensive help.

So I could argue that Rose has the potential to be a much more effective shooter from the field.

If you remember last year Kobe started out so bad....smh...he was throwing up bricks left and right.

[secund2nun]

Dirk was far from the best three point shooter for his team in that series. Dallas shot 45%. If Lebron had chosen his moment of weakness against Chicago the East would have won it that year.

Exactly Dallas had some 3 point shooters on it. And like I stated before that 2011 Miami team is far superior to the 2012, 2013 and this seasons Miami squad. There is no comparison- the he chemistry, the much improved depth and role players.

Lebron and Wade had no chemistry to beat good defenses in 2011. Against Chicago, Miami was lucky that Lebron's and Wade's iso-ball outside shots went in but Lebron's luck ran out against Dallas.


Why? Because you said so?

Well he did have low effeciency and high shot volume in 2011 and 2012 no doubt. It is safe to assume he will do it again this season.

Well


Without Rose they barely beat a team that didn't want to be in the playoffs. Thibes is running a full fledged offense now, anyway.

With Rose the max they will reach is the conference finals. They still could lose in the 2nd round depending on who the face (Indy).


Rose scored more than Wade in the paint in '11.

Look at the fg%. Wade has great fg% near or at 50% while Rose hoovers around 43-44%. The efficiency difference is huge.


Rose is the only player on Chicago that is a top five shot blocker at his position. The only major penetrator in the league (Rose was easily number 1) in '!! was Tony Parker and apparently didn't see those games or you wouldn't be talking like this. Chicago had a great perimeter defense - where you can't really help out much. And like I said there were very few slashers at the PG position.

That literally means nothing. PGs don't block shots and deter people from the paint. How many bpg has Rose averaged in his career? .4 bpg, which is almost nothing. That is ranked low among the NBA. His max per season is .7 bpg which is still very low.

The main thing that matters about scoring is efficiency. You can say all that stuff about his slashing ability, but the end result for Rose is poor efficiency.


:roll: So if we take off three or five points off of Rose's and Lebron's scoring it will affect a team that has Wade and Bosh who were scoring about 8 - 10 ppg cumulatively off of their regular averages without Lebron more. Doesn't make an ounce of sense. Not only that, but Rose kept his team steady and with the best record despite big injuries for over half the year.

For one thing, Lebron's scoring load like I said is more imporant. Lebron has to score at least 26 pgg and he needs to do it on great efficiency. Rose scored 23 ppg and 25 ppg on the last 2 seasons and had bad effeciency.

Also if you took 3-5 ppg off of Lebron's scoring you could not replace it with equal scoring efficiency as Lebron is one of the most efficient scorers of all time. With Rose if you took shots away from him Chicago could shoot those shots at a rate that is the same as Rose' 43-44% fg, or some would say team ball could shoot those shots better than Rose's rate.


Who won more played games percentage wise than Rose that year? Simple question. "Poor job" is your delusional blind haterism gone mad.

That makes no sense. Rose has little impact on defense and rebounding which fuels Chicago to win. Rose is like the cherry on top while a real star like Howard or Lebron is the sundae itself.


Not among elite PGs. He was right on par with Westbrook, Rondo and Parker.

Rondo recognizes his poor shooting ability and only shoots .5-1.3 threes per game. Same with Parker who only shoots 1 three a game.

Westbrook has poor efficiency and needs to stop taking so many threes as well (3.7 last season). He should stick to slashing and let Durant do the 3 shooting. OKC would be a lot better if they did that. Westbrook's 3 point jacking is frustrating to watch and hurts their potential.



Once again you are talking about a guy whose team did very well against the super teams when Rose was healthy - in fact they dominated the super teams after one month into the season. They didn't lose a game to the elite after a month and two weeks into the season. Sure they needed playoff help because talent and speed of Miami got to them. The Bulls had defense and rebounding the last two years and you only kidding yourself if you thought they were beating any of the super teams. But with Rose they have a great chance at having the best record and conference finals with their lone star than the five super teams that have crazy talent.

If Rose is apparently doing so well against the super teams then how bad must he be doing against the non-super teams to average out to a mediocre scoring stat line?

Rose won't make them beat Miami. If Rose sticks to his ball hog shot jacking then they will be eliminated by Miami again probably in 5-6 games just like they lost in 11 with Rose in 5 games and in 13 without Rose in 5 games.


Sorry only one team has dominated the superteams in the last few years. And that team without Rose isn't winning anything. But Rose without other stars is the only one that has been able to do that. The question isn't "is he a star?" Its more like what type of supernova is he?

Well here is the deal- if you replaced Rose with an actual star you would see how Chicago would be. Even though I find all PGs to be overrated, if we replaced Rose with CP3 Chicago would be so much better. If we replaced Rose with an actual perimeter superstar like Lebron or Durant Chicago would be insane.

[secund2nun]

You look at everything but WINS. Rose impacted our team by leading us to WINS. Screw position, stats, and petty emotions and conjecture--it's about winning and Rose has been a winner so far.

Rose is merely the driver of a heavily built tank (defense and rebounding). He is a good player, not a star. Like I said in the other post, he is the cherry on top, not the sundae itself (like a real star is).

[secund2nun]

In 2011-2012, Rose became only the third player in the past thirty years of the NBA to record 2,000 points and 600 assists in a single season. The other two players were LeBron James and Michael Jordan.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can use stats to prop D. Rose us just like detractors can use them to tear him down.

Rose shot 49% from the field his second year as a scoring PG...has Kobe ever shot 49% from the field?

Well 2000 points means very little if it's on the low efficiency that Rose has.

Nope Kobe has not, but then again Kobe is a chucker.

[secund2nun]

comprehension, i never said durant had no media attention but thats a good try for a retard like yourself.

rose is 2nd best jersey seller, he was voted a favorite player over durant in the year he didnt play. hes more popular than durant:roll:

rose is even more likeable than lebron. thats where the insecure lebron stans come in.

At one point a few seasons ago a large percentage of the NBA thought that Durant was better than Lebron. Even though I found that to be outrageous, I still said Durant was an elite superstar.

[nathanjizzle]

At one point a few seasons ago a large percentage of the NBA thought that Durant was better than Lebron. Even though I found that to be outrageous, I still said Durant was an elite superstar.

you are really delusional about rose. its painfully dumb everytime you say "rose is just a good player":lol

heres some stats about rose with and without the bulls

in 2011 against the top 8 teams in the nba rose scored 28 points and 7 assists and they had a winning record like 14-7 + winning their last 12 straight. last year without rose they were 6-15. a merely "good" player has that kind of impact. :roll:

but go on, keep being misinformed. atleast stop spreading your misinformation though.

[nathanjizzle]

rose is just a "good" player nothing more:bowdown: the shit said on this site by lebron stans. :roll:
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/3277519/derrick-rose-ovs-tim-duncan-o.gif
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/3277526/derrick-rose-over-duncan-2-o.gif
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/3277529/derrick-rose-over-tim-duncan-3-o.gif
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3277532/d-rose-over-duncan-4-o.gif

[Doranku]

Kobe has never shot above like 47% and he has had top-notch post players/bigs to play with and quality coaching.

Rose shot 49% (almost 50% really--in his 2nd season) on a team coached by VDN and no offensive help.

So I could argue that Rose has the potential to be a much more effective shooter from the field.

If you remember last year Kobe started out so bad....smh...he was throwing up bricks left and right.

First 20 games:
11-14
10-20
14-23
5-10
7-17
10-18
6-15
12-19
10-24
9-18
8-15
11-20
7-23
6-11
12-28
5-15
12-27
14-31
10-27
11-24

Total: 190-389 (48.8%)

[secund2nun]

you are really delusional about rose. its painfully dumb everytime you say "rose is just a good player":lol

heres some stats about rose with and without the bulls

in 2011 against the top 8 teams in the nba rose scored 28 points and 7 assists and they had a winning record like 14-7 + winning their last 12 straight. last year without rose they were 6-15. a merely "good" player has that kind of impact. :roll:

but go on, keep being misinformed. atleast stop spreading your misinformation though.

Let's look at 11-12 when Rose last played. They went 18-9 in games without him. A dropoff sure, but not a superstar dropoff. Take Howard off of Orlando or Durant off of OKC or Lebron off of his team and see the dropoff like when he left Cleveland and Cleveland fell off of the face of the earth.

[Go Getter]

Well 2000 points means very little if it's on the low efficiency that Rose has.

Nope Kobe has not, but then again Kobe is a chucker.


It means a lot if he hits the shots that help his team win games. I'd rather have a guy go down shooting than a guy scared to shoot and mess up his pretty fg%.

The difference between Rose and Kobe is the team tells Rose to shoot more while Kobe's team asks him to pass more.

[NumberSix]

Derrick Rose is the most media manufactured superstar of my lifetime. All sports.

[Go Getter]

Let's look at 11-12 when Rose last played. They went 18-9 in games without him. A dropoff sure, but not a superstar dropoff. Take Howard off of Orlando or Durant off of OKC or Lebron off of his team and see the dropoff like when he left Cleveland and Cleveland fell off of the face of the earth.


You are oversimplifying complex situations. What was the strength of schedule in those games? What was the health of those teams?

2,000 points and 600 assists...no other players besides Jordan, Lebron, and ROSE have done that. That's GREATNESS.

[Go Getter]

Derrick Rose is the most media manufactured superstar of my lifetime. All sports.
No one cares about you or your lifetime. Shut up.

[Go Getter]

you are really delusional about rose. its painfully dumb everytime you say "rose is just a good player":lol

heres some stats about rose with and without the bulls

in 2011 against the top 8 teams in the nba rose scored 28 points and 7 assists and they had a winning record like 14-7 + winning their last 12 straight. last year without rose they were 6-15. a merely "good" player has that kind of impact. :roll:

but go on, keep being misinformed. atleast stop spreading your misinformation though.
:bowdown: He's back and the haters are getting desperate.

[secund2nun]

You are oversimplifying complex situations. What was the strength of schedule in those games? What was the health of those teams?

2,000 points and 600 assists...no other players besides Jordan, Lebron, and ROSE have done that. That's GREATNESS.

We can look into that. I don't have time for that right now though. 18-9 without Rose is pretty good.

Look at Orlando after Howard left . It was a huge dropoff. Same with Cleveland after Lebron left. Both were among the worst teams in the NBA. Chicago went 18-9 last season without Rose and was a 4th seed this year without Rose that advanced to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

But then again Rose impacts the game nowhere near Lebron and Howard.

[Pointguard]

Well he did have low effeciency and high shot volume in 2011 and 2012 no doubt. It is safe to assume he will do it again this season.

Roses efficiency was great for a point guard the first two years when he had shooters. I explained this already. In fact he shot like Durant, Dirk and Lebron. Shooters make all the difference in the world. Rose hasn't been in a system for him for more than 2 years. Look at most superstars in history and see how their efficiency goes up when they are used to a system and have shooters next to them.

In fact, it took Lebron five years and Dirk eight years to reach DRose's second year shooting percentage. And they had teams built around them for years. That was D Rose's first year being featured and he took 18 shots per game. But Rose lost his shooters and fell off some in a new system.


The main thing that matters about scoring is efficiency. You can say all that stuff about his slashing ability, but the end result for Rose is poor efficiency.

See above. Lebron and Wade get a lot of easy baskets.


For one thing, Lebron's scoring load like I said is more imporant. Lebron has to score at least 26 pgg and he needs to do it on great efficiency. Rose scored 23 ppg and 25 ppg on the last 2 seasons and had bad effeciency.

Also if you took 3-5 ppg off of Lebron's scoring you could not replace it with equal scoring efficiency as Lebron is one of the most efficient scorers of all time. With Rose if you took shots away from him Chicago could shoot those shots at a rate that is the same as Rose' 43-44% fg, or some would say team ball could shoot those shots better than Rose's rate.

uhmmm, Lebron is on one of the most stacked teams ever in terms of shot creators and makers. Are you high??? Its crazy to suggest that his scoring is a dire necessity.


That makes no sense. Rose has little impact on defense and rebounding which fuels Chicago to win. Rose is like the cherry on top while a real star like Howard or Lebron is the sundae itself.
Why was Rose guarding Wade if he wasn't the best guard defender on his team??? Answer the question. You still have to outscore other teams to win the game. And Rose has much more responsibility than Lebron, Wade, Durant, Dwight and Kobe to score.



Rondo recognizes his poor shooting ability and only shoots .5-1.3 threes per game. Same with Parker who only shoots 1 three a game.
They have other dependable shooters - you seem like you can't understand simple things.


If Rose is apparently doing so well against the super teams then how bad must he be doing against the non-super teams to average out to a mediocre scoring stat line?
You don't understand the concept of winning games.


Well here is the deal- if you replaced Rose with an actual star you would see how Chicago would be. Even though I find all PGs to be overrated, if we replaced Rose with CP3 Chicago would be so much better. If we replaced Rose with an actual perimeter superstar like Lebron or Durant Chicago would be insane.
The replacement argument never works. I think you can put most superstars on Miami and they will not only win it all, but would have a better record than Rose's Bulls. And I like Lebron and think he's a top ten GOAT. Most players, including Lebron and Durant suffer badly when they are the only offensive weapon. One can even argue that Lebron freaks out. Durant looked totally ineffective.

CP3 had a superior talented team last year to Rose's 2011 team, easily. And his team was healthy most of the year. Replace CP3 with Rose and no way do the Clippers not have the best record in the league. In fact it amazes me that Lebron and Durant with all the talent around them haven't had the best record in the league the last few years.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Why watch games when you can just check the box score afterwards?

[NumberSix]

No one cares about you or your lifetime. Shut up.
I'm the bad guy though, huh?

[Go Getter]

We can look into that. I don't have time for that right now though. 18-9 without Rose is pretty good.

Look at Orlando after Howard left . It was a huge dropoff. Same with Cleveland after Lebron left. Both were among the worst teams in the NBA. Chicago went 18-9 last season without Rose and was a 4th seed this year without Rose that advanced to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

But then again Rose impacts the game nowhere near Lebron and Howard.
What exactly has Howard done as the #1 guy on team?

Again, you are oversimplifying "drop-offs." The Bulls were a significantly worse team without Rose, but they are in a weak(er) division...which had an off year as well.

[poido123]

No one cares about you or your lifetime. Shut up.

:lol

[poido123]

Why watch games when you can just check the box score afterwards?

Exactly.

There's no sense in watching grown men run around playing with a ball and throwing it in a hoop for fun right? :pimp: :banana:

[aj1987]

2,000 points and 600 assists...no other players besides Jordan, Lebron, and ROSE have done that. That's GREATNESS.
Oscar did it 7 times. Tiny Archibald and Hondo did it twice.

Willt missed it by 8 points on '68 and by 44 points in '67. Wade missed it by 11 assists in '09. 2000 points and 600 assists is too arbitrary.

[poido123]

First 20 games:
11-14
10-20
14-23
5-10
7-17
10-18
6-15
12-19
10-24
9-18
8-15
11-20
7-23
6-11
12-28
5-15
12-27
14-31
10-27
11-24

Total: 190-389 (48.8%)

Not to discredit your fact finding skills Doranku but...

Do you have Kobe posts on speed dial or something? You somehow found a Kobe reference in a non-Kobe thread :eek:

[chips93]

i forgot how annoying these rose/bulls vs lebron/heat arguments were

[Eric Cartman]

i forgot how annoying these rose/bulls vs lebron/heat arguments were

This one is the first of thousands this season. Enjoy.

[Go Getter]

Oscar did it 7 times. Tiny Archibald and Hondo did it twice.

Willt missed it by 8 points on '68 and by 44 points in '67. Wade missed it by 11 assists in '09. 2000 points and 600 assists is too arbitrary.
I'm not a stat guy. I think the real "achievement" included rebounds or something but I know that year was put up there with the best of the best in some aspect(s).

I'm pretty sure the stats in the Big O's era weren't taken like that or else he would have averaged a trip dub no?

My point was that if you using stats to discredit Rose I could use them to put him in legendary company. Hondo, Tiny, and the Big O are all LEGENDS so you kind of furthered my point.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

inb4 Rose gets re injured.

[Go Getter]

inb4 Rose gets re injured.


It wasn't funny the first 800 times people posted it *****. Root against us but to wish ill will on someone you don't even now requires a special kind of cowardly chump.

[aj1987]

I'm not a stat guy. I think the real "achievement" included rebounds or something but I know that year was put up there with the best of the best in some aspect(s).
2000 points, 600 rebounds and 600 assists:
Jordan - 1
Oscar - 5
Hondo - 2

Here's a more rounded numbers list: (2000/500/500 on 55% TS)
Lebron - 7
Jordan - 2
Oscar - 6
Bird - 3

That makes Lebron look like a top 5 GOAT, which he obviously is not. Not even close.


I'm pretty sure the stats in the Big O's era weren't taken like that or else he would have averaged a trip dub no?
Oscar is the only player in the history to average (officially) a triple double over a season 30.8/12.5/11.4 on 55% TS.


My point was that if you using stats to discredit Rose I could use them to put him in legendary company. Hondo, Tiny, and the Big O are all LEGENDS so you kind of furthered my point.
I never tried to discredit Rose, in this thread. I was just pointing out that several other players scored 2000/600 in a season and that 2000/600 is a bit arbitrary.

[Dengness9]

The hate is beautiful.

[funnystuff]

No way he Adrian Petersons it, i predict 19 ppg on 42%.

[Go Getter]

2000 points, 600 rebounds and 600 assists:
Jordan - 1
Oscar - 5
Hondo - 2

Here's a more rounded numbers list: (2000/500/500 on 55% TS)
Lebron - 7
Jordan - 2
Oscar - 6
Bird - 3

That makes Lebron look like a top 5 GOAT, which he obviously is not. Not even close.


Oscar is the only player in the history to average (officially) a triple double over a season 30.8/12.5/11.4 on 55% TS.


I never tried to discredit Rose, in this thread. I was just pointing out that several other players scored 2000/600 in a season and that 2000/600 is a bit arbitrary.
I wasn't aiming that at you, 'twas another poster.

A lot of stats are arbitrary, which was my point originally...I really don't have time to dig....and I am sure (because I've heard it like 20 times as a Bull's fan) that Rose has a record or stat that he shares with two other guys. I know it doesn't mean much, but it does put him in rare air (statistically) which is what I wanted to convey.

[Eric Cartman]

No way he Adrian Petersons it, i predict 19 ppg on 42%.

Bulls are a number 2 seed if he gets those numbers. Realistically he shoots a like more and gets 25 points on the same percentage.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Rose is gonna put up 25 ppg on 44 FG%, 7 assists a game. That's my guess.

[poido123]

Rose is gonna put up 25 ppg on 44 FG%, 7 assists a game. That's my guess.

That's about right.

He doesn't look at all inhibited out there, just very rusty and lacking a bit of touch with his passing and decision making...

By the second half of the year, you will start to see Rose in full flight...

[Bigsmoke]

i forgot how annoying these rose/bulls vs lebron/heat arguments were

I know cant we all just get along?

[nathanjizzle]

i forgot how annoying these rose/bulls vs lebron/heat arguments were

u mean how annoying lebron stans are. look what thread we are in. it always ends up rose fans having to defend rose against lebron trolls.

[branslowski]

Rose is gonna put up 25 ppg on 44 FG%, 7 assists a game. That's my guess.

:oldlol: @ 44%. Dude has worked out and got them muscles. So 5ft floaters gonna turn into and 1 layups and dunks. Also he'll cut down on alot of the missed bunnies at the rim since he has that new found arm strength And he's jumping higher aswell.

He's also had time to sit out and become more advanced in basketball mindset.

I think Rose is gonna have a 27ppg 48%fg season. Along with 7ast and 4reb with 1.8stls and .4blks.

[Jacks3]

Kobe has never shot above like 47% and he has had top-notch post players/bigs to play with and quality coaching.

Rose shot 49% (almost 50% really--in his 2nd season) on a team coached by VDN and no offensive help.

So I could argue that Rose has the potential to be a much more effective shooter from the field.

If you remember last year Kobe started out so bad....smh...he was throwing up bricks left and right.
And he's still much more efficient than Rose. :confusedshrug:

And he started last year out great.

What are you talking about?

[Greg Oden 50]

he will get injuried very soon

[HorryIsMyMVP]

It wasn't funny the first 800 times people posted it *****. Root against us but to wish ill will on someone you don't even now requires a special kind of cowardly chump.
Not wishing ill on him actually quite the opposite but injuries happen for a reason. He needs to slow down and work on being more of an all-around player. Not rely on freak athleticism.

[secund2nun]

[QUOTE]Roses efficiency was great for a point guard the first two years when he had shooters. I explained this already. In fact he shot like Durant, Dirk and Lebron. Shooters make all the difference in the world. Rose hasn't been in a system for him for more than 2 years. Look at most superstars in history and see how their efficiency goes up when they are used to a system and have shooters next to them.



In fact, it took Lebron five years and Dirk eight years to reach DRose's second year shooting percentage. And they had teams built around them for years. That was D Rose's first year being featured and he took 18 shots per game. But Roses lost his shooters and fell off some in a new system.


That may have been a factor, but the main reason for his fg% drop is because when he shot 48.9% fg he was taking less than 1 three a game. Then he started taking 4.8 and 4.4 three attempts per game the last 2 years and his fg% dropped big time as a result.

As for Lebron and Dirk, Lebron was routinely taking 4-5 three attempts per game. Even when he finally reached the 48.9% fg, he took 4.7 threes per game. Dirk is similar. If Lebron took only .8 threes per game like Rose took in his 48.9% fg season his fg % would be insane.

When Rose takes 4.7 threes per game his fg% is between 43.5-44.5 %.


See above. Lebron and Wade get a lot of easy baskets.

In the end Lebron and Wade are much more efficient scorers.


uhmmm, Lebron is on one of the most stacked teams ever in terms of shot creators and makers. Are you high??? Its crazy to suggest that his scoring is a dire necessity.

It is a dire necessity. There is a reason Lebron was going insane yet Indy pushed them to 7 and SA pushed them to 7. Wade's annual playoff injuries and Miami's lack of center really hurts them forcing Lebron to carry a huge load. There is a reason Lebron lead Miami in ppg, rpg, and apg.



Why was Rose guarding Wade if he wasn't the best guard defender on his team??? Answer the question. You still have to outscore other teams to win the game. And Rose has much more responsibility than Lebron.

Because Deng guards Lebron leaving Rose on Wade. Rose is an average defender by every measure. But Rose does a much worse job scoring than Lebron.


They have other dependable shooters - you seem like you can't understand simple things.

You cannot understand simple things. Why is Rose shooting 4-5 threes per game when there are better 3 point shooters on the team like Korver and even Deng?????????


You don't understand the concept of winning games.

I understand it, which is why I value centers and efficiency instead of no defense, subpar passing, low efficiency shot jacking ball hog PGs like Rose.


The replacement argument never works. I think you can put most superstars on Miami and they will not only win it all, but would have a better record than Rose's Bulls. And I like Lebron and think he's a top ten GOAT. Most players Lebron and Durant suffer badly when they are the only offensive weapon. One can even argue that Lebron freaks out. Durant looked totally ineffective.

Suffer badly? Lebron was an efficiency machine on Cleveland and Durant has always been super efficient.


CP3 had a superior talented team last year to Rose's 2011 team, easily. And his team was healthy most of the year. Replace CP3 with Rose and no way do the Clippers not have the best record in the league. In fact it amazes me that Lebron and Durant with all the talent around them haven't had the best record in the league the last few years.

Rose's 2011 squad was much better than cp3's squad. You are talking about the #1 defense and #1 rebounding in the NBA. CP3 would have lead that offense to the top 10 instead of #17 like Rose.

Durant really does not have that much help around him. Miami coasts a lot in the regular season because they have no center so they really need to exert themselves on defensive rotations and on scoring because they have no center to score easy buckets, but last season they reached 66 wins despite coasting the first part of the regular season.

[Go Getter]

Not wishing ill on him actually quite the opposite but injuries happen for a reason. He needs to slow down and work on being more of an all-around player. Not rely on freak athleticism.


What you are saying here has no basis in logic or science.

Rose doesn't try to do monsterous dunks for the crowd and isn't a show off....quite the opposite...if you watch him he switches speeds and lives within the offense a lot.

The Bulls need to get him a secondary scorer that can create off the bounce.

[Go Getter]

And he's still much more efficient than Rose. :confusedshrug:

And he started last year out great.

What are you talking about?
How is his shooting more efficient than Rose's pray tell?

[HorryIsMyMVP]

What you are saying here has no basis in logic or science.

Rose doesn't try to do monsterous dunks for the crowd and isn't a show off....quite the opposite...if you watch him he switches speeds and lives within the offense a lot.

The Bulls need to get him a secondary scorer that can create off the bounce.
It is his explosiveness that is hard on his legs. His take off is what is reckless. He barrels in at 150 miles an hour with reckless abandon. And he doesn't have another skill besides barreling into big men or doing a floater. Great players who have long careers have well rounded games. And can relax in some games and help their team in other ways. Where as he is an explosive chucker and that play style deteriorates over a long season. Logic and science have proven this. Because he is in his prime and his career is almost over.

[Go Getter]

It is his explosiveness that is hard on his legs. His take off is what is reckless. He barrels in at 150 miles an hour with reckless abandon. And he doesn't have another skill besides barreling into big men or doing a floater. Great players who have long careers have well rounded games. And can relax in some games and help their team in other ways. Where as he is an explosive chucker and that play style deteriorates over a long season. Logic and science have proven this. Because he is in his prime and his career is almost over.

Again, more conjecture and bullshit. I see you trying to egg Rose fans on with petty idiotic comments so I won't go any further than this post.

A lot of explosive players have long careers. No one keeps their explosiveness for their entire career, but when you are athletic (in the top 2%) like Vince Carter and D Wade, you can still draw upon that athleticism from time to time. THE NBA SEASON IS HARD ON EVERYONE'S LEGS!!!!

There have been PLENTY of blowout games where Rose has gone through the motions and not even hoisted up 14 shots because there was an easy win that night...he is more than willing to run the offense and do what the team needs him to do but it just so happens that we need him to score.

And barreling into big men is his skill? That shows your ignorance. He is adept at finishing adroit layups AROUND defenders:facepalm He has some of the best handles in the league, his crossover is deadly. He is great at starting the break and his rebounding and defense is solid at his position.

Funny how Rose is better percentage shooter than Kobe but he can't shoot....he has a 2000, 600, 300 (iirc) season, but us not a balanced player, and is 25 yet washed up.

Go sit yo ass down somewhere fool.

[poido123]

Not wishing ill on him actually quite the opposite but injuries happen for a reason. He needs to slow down and work on being more of an all-around player. Not rely on freak athleticism.

...

[Go Getter]

I guess Rubio, Kidd, Mark Price, [and other ACL tear sufferers]etc, etc were all too hard on their legs because they relied on their athleticism as well, smh.

[poido123]

I guess Rubio, Kidd, Mark Price, [and other ACL tear sufferers]etc, etc were all too hard on their legs because they relied on their athleticism as well, smh.

I get both of your point of views.

However, I do see an element of truth from what he's saying Go Getter.

If rose uses more of a rounded game he can prolong his career and only make himself more dangerous..

I'm not saying Rose is one dimensional, he's not, but he could certainly utilise more offensive variety as well as driving to the hole...

The difference with Rose to those players you mentioned is, he travels so fast and so recklessly, it can only lead to further injury down the track. Jordan was able to do it for many years, but eventually he had to develop a potent post game to take the edge off his athletic and reckless drives..

[Budadiiii]

He was physically healthy a year ago.

Not sure if he's ever been mentally healthy though. Obviously struggled with that aspect.

AP he is not.

[Go Getter]

He was physically healthy a year ago.

Not sure if he's ever been mentally healthy though. Obviously struggled with that aspect.

AP he is not.
He was mentally healthy enough to not cry about not getting his way though.


:cry:

[Go Getter]

I get both of your point of views.

However, I do see an element of truth from what he's saying Go Getter.

If rose uses more of a rounded game he can prolong his career and only make himself more dangerous..

I'm not saying Rose is one dimensional, he's not, but he could certainly utilise more offensive variety as well as driving to the hole...

The difference with Rose to those players you mentioned is, he travels so fast and so recklessly, it can only lead to further injury down the track. Jordan was able to do it for many years, but eventually he had to develop a potent post game to take the edge off his athletic and reckless drives..
He shot WAY more threes last year than he ever did so I think he has started to vary his game as far as driving and shooting threes.

But you guys act like basketball is a forever thing. If he plays 8 years or 14 years who cares [it's sports, shit happens]? No one can predict if you'll get injured. NO one can tell HIM if he is being too hard on his legs...just like they can't tell him if he feels good enough to play or not.

If you are contantly worried about wear and tear in the future you may as well sit down. When you're on the court you play up to your strengths and wish for the best.

Like I said...cerebral players with little to no athleticism injure their knees. Players that behave recklessly like AI often never get any major injuries.

You guys are not being logical...

[poido123]

He shot WAY more threes last year than he ever did so I think he has started to vary his game as far as driving and shooting threes.

But you guys act like basketball is a forever thing. If he plays 8 years or 14 years who cares [it's sports, shit happens]? No one can predict if you'll get injured. NO one can tell HIM if he is being too hard on his legs...just like they can't tell him if he feels good enough to play or not.

If you are contantly worried about wear and tear in the future you may as well sit down. When you're on the court you play up to your strengths and wish for the best.

Like I said...cerebral players with little to no athleticism injure their knees. Players that behave recklessly like AI often never get any major injuries.

You guys are not being logical...

Like I said, I agree with both his and your points.

I'm stuck in my head as to what the best approach is, maybe once he starts to lose some of that athleticism he will naturally evolve his game as he gets older. So I guess just keep doing what he does, keep fingers crossed that he doesn't get hurt and thats it.

Now that you have written this, I'm starting to lean towards your argument. That last part about AI is very true and that not so athletic players find themselves with serious injuries too..

[Pointguard]

[QUOTE=Pointguard]
That may have been a factor, but the main reason for his fg% drop is because when he shot 48.9% fg he was taking less than 1 three a game. Then he started taking 4.8 and 4.4 three attempts per game the last 2 years and his fg% dropped big time as a result.

As for Lebron and Dirk, Lebron was routinely taking 4-5 three attempts per game. Even when he finally reached the 48.9% fg, he took 4.7 threes per game. Dirk is similar. If Lebron took only .8 threes per game like Rose took in his 48.9% fg season his fg % would be insane.

You didn't hear me. You are trying to say Rose is some horrible shooter, like its ingrained or something. I told you it took 13 years before Lebron and Dirk, if you add it together, reached Rose's second year percentage. In a different set of priorities Rose had to take more shots from the outside in order for his team to win unlike any other team (miraculously in a superteam era). Rose shooting from the outside was more effective than Korver's shooting from the outside after January when Korver's shot tanked badly.



In the end Lebron and Wade are much more efficient scorers.

True but give Rose a Lebron or Wade as a sidekick its much more likely he would have a superior shooting percentage. Chicago won more than those two highly efficient scorers on the same team. And played the elite way better than they did. You arguing against winning when Rose's team lost it's second and third best players for more than half the year.



It is a dire necessity. There is a reason Lebron was going insane yet Indy pushed them to 7 and SA pushed them to 7. Wade's annual playoff injuries and Miami's lack of center really hurts them forcing Lebron to carry a huge load. There is a reason Lebron lead Miami in ppg, rpg, and apg. Lebron is a great player. No doubt.



Because Deng guards Lebron leaving Rose on Wade. Rose is an average defender by every measure. But Rose does a much worse job scoring than Lebron.
Rose is not a shooting guard. If Rose is the best backcourt defender on the best defensive perimeter team then he's key to the defensive effort. Plain and simple. He did a shut down on the elite guards at the PG position and then did a stellar job on Wade.



You cannot understand simple things. Why is Rose shooting 4-5 threes per game when there are better 3 point shooters on the team like Korver and even Deng?????????
Deng will shoot his number of 3's and then he doesn't shoot anymore. Just the way he is. Korver's shot left him Febuary. He was wildly inconsistent the rest of the year. Rose kept shooting them and guess what team ran away with the best record in March and April.



Suffer badly? Lebron was an efficiency machine on Cleveland and Durant has always been super efficient.
You can't have it both ways: why did it take Lebron, who is a freak of nature, five years to reach Rose's second year percentage? Durant suffered when Westbrook went out.



Rose's 2011 squad was much better than cp3's squad. You are talking about the #1 defense and #1 rebounding in the NBA. CP3 would have lead that offense to the top 10 instead of #17 like Rose.
Talent wise it wasn't close. Rose had no scorer like the Clippers sixth man. Blake averaged more rebounds and points than all the current great PFs (Malone, Barkley, Duncan and KG) in their rookie years, and is the closest rival to Lebron's athleticism ever in the league. DJ is more of an athlete than any of the Bulls bigs and blocked more shots than any Bulls big when he wasn't getting full time minutes. Talent wise its not close. The Bulls play hard like their leader.


Durant really does not have that much help around him. Miami coasts a lot in the regular season because they have no center so they really need to exert themselves on defensive rotations and on scoring because they have no center to score easy buckets, but last season they reached 66 wins despite coasting the first part of the regular season.

Champions know the value of homecourt so that's no excuse for Miami. Simply put.

Durant has the best shot blocker and last year had the best PG. Sef is a stellar perimeter defender and their center is among the best man on man defenders in the league. Their sixth man, Kevin Martin, is in his prime and averaged over 23ppg three times in his career.

[Glide2keva]

I see the Rose hate is already in mid-season form.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

He looks athletic but I really dont like the way hes playing. Hes just haphazardly throwing himself into the lane. Hes attacking like its game 7 but its actually the preseason. Very low IQ basketball. Hopefully its just rust, but you can really see the difference between him and a methodical calculating PG.

[poido123]

He looks athletic but I really dont like the way hes playing. Hes just haphazardly throwing himself into the lane. Hes attacking like its game 7 but its actually the preseason. Very low IQ basketball. Hopefully its just rust, but you can really see the difference between him and a methodical calculating PG.

I agree with you.

As a Bulls fan, Id rather him take it down a notch and go hell for leather in the reg season.

Can't blame him though, he's been itching to play for a long time :confusedshrug:

[Pointguard]

Very low IQ basketball. Hopefully its just rust, but you can really see the difference between him and a methodical calculating PG.
You're not dissing - him you're dissing the league, or yourself:

How does it work that he had the second highest user rate, the only player in the top ten in scoring and assist, be the only consistent high scorer on his team, have the highest scored points ratio player to his team, go through more team adjustments than any other star, and then have the best record in the league, when seven or eight teams have more talent? They outscored other teams more than anybody else.

Either the whole league is really low on IQ or you are going to come back with something really stupid.