Dwight Howard is over rated

[eeeeeebro]

The guy will lead the league in rebounding.. Big deal so you get +4 rebounds over a 10 rebound per game guy... He can block shots.... his blocks normaly go out to the seats and result in opposite team getting an inbounds.. He can Dunk and take some OOPS but he cannot shoot and has no free throws.... In the end of the game you cannot count on Dwight howard cause he will get auto fouled.. He is an over glorified fan trophy.. Sorry but on a serious note --- make them damn free throws or you are useless

[Unbiased_one]

The guy will lead the league in rebounding.. Big deal so you get +4 rebounds over a 10 rebound per game guy... He can block shots.... his blocks normaly go out to the seats and result in opposite team getting an inbounds.. He can Dunk and take some OOPS but he cannot shoot and has no free throws.... In the end of the game you cannot count on Dwight howard cause he will get auto fouled.. He is an over glorified fan trophy.. Sorry but on a serious note --- make them damn free throws or you are useless

Every argument you make there could be applied to shaq... You saying he's useless too?

[1~Gibson~1]

The guy will lead the league in rebounding.. Big deal so you get +4 rebounds over a 10 rebound per game guy... He can block shots.... his blocks normaly go out to the seats and result in opposite team getting an inbounds.. He can Dunk and take some OOPS but he cannot shoot and has no free throws.... In the end of the game you cannot count on Dwight howard cause he will get auto fouled.. He is an over glorified fan trophy.. Sorry but on a serious note --- make them damn free throws or you are useless:oldlol: You've literally just described an amazing basketball player with one weakness (freethrows).

and since when is it bad to have blocked shots go out of bounds? THE SHOT IS BLOCKED YOU DUMBA**!

[TheReal Kendall]

I been saying this.

No post game and he won't demand a double or triple team.

Doesn't know how to keep the ball high and can't shoot.

He's just on the court for rebounds and defense but he can't defend the PnR well.

He's like the 3rd or 4th option at best. Definitely not the main guy.

Best way to play with him is surround him with 3pt shooters and let him rebound

[Legends66NBA7]

The guy will lead the league in rebounding.. Big deal so you get +4 rebounds over a 10 rebound per game guy...

It's hardly just that... he's one of the greatest rebounders of all-time.


and since when is it bad to have blocked shots go out of bounds?

It's not bad, but the opposing team could have a chance to score again off the inbounds play. Blocked shots and retaining possession on the same play is much more effective. I wish they there was a consistent site for stats like that.

[Jameerthefear]

I been saying this.

No post game and he won't demand a double or triple team.

Doesn't know how to keep the ball high and can't shoot.

He's just on the court for rebounds and defense but he can't defend the PnR well.

He's like the 3rd or 4th option at best. Definitely not the main guy.

Best way to play with him is surround him with 3pt shooters and let him rebound
Wow. THis very well may be the most uninformed post I've seen in a while.

[TheReal Kendall]

Wow. THis very well may be the most uninformed post I've seen in a while.

:rolleyes:

What's not true about my post?

[1~Gibson~1]

It's hardly just that... he's one of the greatest rebounders of all-time.



It's not bad, but the opposing team could have a chance to score again off the inbounds play. Blocked shots and retaining possession on the same play is much more effective. I wish they there was a consistent site for stats like that.I realize that but you cant punish Dwight for a good thing (a blocked shot). Fan boys on ISH are soooo picky that they expect perfect basketball at all times.

Dwight Howard isn't overrated. He has his weaknesses and strong points like every other player. He was injured last year and in a bad system, probably (well, undoubtedly) didn't even wanna be in LA anymore after he realized that the team wasn't what it was supposed to be. This year, IF HEALTHY he should return to the Dwight Howard that dominated the league a years ago. Maybe not as much, but he'll dominate nonetheless as there aren't many other centers that are able to guard him anyway.

[Jameerthefear]

:rolleyes:

What's not true about my post?
Can't defend the picknroll well.
Doesn't demand doubles
3rd or 4th option at best (LOL)

[SilkkTheShocker]

I honesty don't think Real Kendall actually watches basketball.

[SCdac]

Rich man's Kevin Willis

[JellyBean]

The guy will lead the league in rebounding.. Big deal so you get +4 rebounds over a 10 rebound per game guy... He can block shots.... his blocks normaly go out to the seats and result in opposite team getting an inbounds.. He can Dunk and take some OOPS but he cannot shoot and has no free throws.... In the end of the game you cannot count on Dwight howard cause he will get auto fouled.. He is an over glorified fan trophy.. Sorry but on a serious note --- make them damn free throws or you are useless


Trying to cope with Dwight leaving the Lakers, huh? I know it is painful. But we gotta let it go. Take a deep breathe and exhale. Dwight wasn't a good fit for Los Angeles. He was like a blue suede suit at a black tie dinner. You know it aint about to end well.

[Horde of Temujin]

Glorified Stromile Swift

[SilkkTheShocker]

Glorified Stromile Swift

Retard :facepalm

[ShaqAttack3234]

Depends on which version of Dwight we see. Version last year was a step down on every level from what we'd seen in Orlando. It'll be interesting to see how he looks being more than a year removed from the back surgery and without the distractions(mostly brought on by himself of course)


Rich man's Kevin Willis

Different players. Willis didn't have the length and overall athletic ability Howard did, but he had a vastly superior shooting touch. Kevin Willis comparison never made too much sense beyond their physiques and the fact that they're both great rebounders.

[Horde of Temujin]

Retard :facepalm

I wasn't aware that I was talking about Lebron

[Legends66NBA7]

I realize that but you cant punish Dwight for a good thing (a blocked shot). Fan boys on ISH are soooo picky that they expect perfect basketball at all times.

Oh definitely, he's a great shot blocker regardless.


Dwight Howard isn't overrated. He has his weaknesses and strong points like every other player. He was injured last year and in a bad system, probably (well, undoubtedly) didn't even wanna be in LA anymore after he realized that the team wasn't what it was supposed to be. This year, IF HEALTHY he should return to the Dwight Howard that dominated the league a years ago. Maybe not as much, but he'll dominate nonetheless as there aren't many other centers that are able to guard him anyway.

I agree about the situation with the Lakers, although he doesn't do himself favors since the whole Orlando scenario. He could definitely dominate if healthy again, but I think it comes down to his attitude and how badly he wants to win. It seems like he wants to have fun and rather pout, when he should be shredding his opponents (which like you mentioned, not many centers can guard anyways and he does a good job) at all times.


Glorified Stromile Swift

I'm not fond of Howard whatsoever, but statements like this are ridiculous. It makes the statement of the thread title the complete opposite.


Can't defend the picknroll well.
Doesn't demand doubles
3rd or 4th option at best (LOL)

Seriously. :oldlol:

I actually don't know if he's going to be the first option right away in Houston. Looking at Houston's system, it's probably still going to be James Harden since he will most likely still be the most versatile option with scoring and play making duties.

[Kblaze8855]

Hes got the highest rebounds per game for his career of anyone who didnt play in the 60s(Rodman aside of course...and hes not far from him). Hes shot past some HOF bigmen on the blocks list already(not counting those who played before they were recorded either). All anyone can hate on is his scoring and he has a higher ppg average than...off the top of my head....7 hall of fame centers. But im sure its more than that.

Dwight is probably gonna retire a 12-15 time all star with 10 all nba teams and 3-6 DPOYs. Hes already made the finals. Hes gonna walk into the HOF without much debate.

And there are a lot of people who think he literally sucks.

Hard to be overrated when you are the most accomplished center of your era and a good chunk of people act like you are garbage over being a bad FT shooter....which you have in common with at least....3 of the 5 best centers ever.

Dwight is if anything underrated....because people dont rate him that high to begin with.

[SCdac]

Different players. Willis didn't have the length and overall athletic ability Howard did, but he had a vastly superior shooting touch. Kevin Willis comparison never made too much sense beyond their physiques and the fact that they're both great rebounders.

Eh, prime Willis was really really athletic and as much a dunker as Howard although that's more Howards "thing". Howard is more a shot blocker but all in all, I see more similarities than differences. If anything, I'd take Willis in certain situations over Dwight (anything involved with taking a jump shot :oldlol: )

[tikay0]

So overrated that you'd jizz your pants if your team got him.

All you fucbois say the same thing about players you can't have. Why do you think Rose gets hated on so much?

[Horde of Temujin]

Even at his peak form before the injury, the comparison to all time great centers was a joke and an insult to basketball.

Vastly overrated.

[Ikill]

At his peak 2011 he was a top 3 player

[taucesays]

Every argument you make there could be applied to shaq... You saying he's useless too?

Now we know you never watched Shaq play before phx

[1~Gibson~1]

Hes got the highest rebounds per game for his career of anyone who didnt play in the 60s(Rodman aside of course...and hes not far from him). Hes shot past some HOF bigmen on the blocks list already(not counting those who played before they were recorded either). All anyone can hate on is his scoring and he has a higher ppg average than...off the top of my head....7 hall of fame centers. But im sure its more than that.

Dwight is probably gonna retire a 12-15 time all star with 10 all nba teams and 3-6 DPOYs. Hes already made the finals. Hes gonna walk into the HOF without much debate.

And there are a lot of people who think he literally sucks.

Hard to be overrated when you are the most accomplished center of your era and a good chunk of people act like you are garbage over being a bad FT shooter....which you have in common with at least....3 of the 5 best centers ever.

Dwight is if anything underrated....because people dont rate him that high to begin with.:applause: :bowdown:

Someone who watches basketball. Bc the OP clearly doesn't.

[longtime lurker]

Trying to cope with Dwight leaving the Lakers, huh? I know it is painful. But we gotta let it go. Take a deep breathe and exhale. Dwight wasn't a good fit for Los Angeles. He was like a blue suede suit at a black tie dinner. You know it aint about to end well.

The OP's not even a Lakers fan.

[I<3NBA]

scoring is overrated. chucking shots is easy. playing hero ball is easy. it strokes the ego, it's the part everyone wants to play.
it's the real dirty part of basketball which is hard. rebounding, playing defense, that's the real hard part. not everyone wants to play it. it's not as celebrated. its a lonely job. rarely will you be appreciated as much as a scorer will be. anyone can chuck shots, but not everyone can play defense really hard.

and the funny thing is, it's this hard part which wins championships.

so idk about you. but to me, i know which part of basketball is overrated.

[Horde of Temujin]

Currently, I'd take the following centers over Dwight

Hibbert
Tim Duncan (depends on what position he's classified as)
Pau Gasol ( same as above)
Marc Gasol
Pekovic
Noah
Brook Lopez
Cousins

[tomtucker]

he was great once........now does nothing more then a much cheaper center does.......rebound and a few easy dunks

[tomtucker]

Currently, I'd take the following centers over Dwight

Hibbert
Tim Duncan (depends on what position he's classified as)
Pau Gasol ( same as above)
Marc Gasol
Pekovic
Noah
Brook Lopez
Cousins

no 1 center in the NBA.........very nasty........ just ask lebron and the whole heat team

[Knicks101]

:applause: :bowdown:

Someone who watches basketball. Bc the OP clearly doesn't.

What does any of that stuff have to do with watching basketball? A guy who has never seen a game could make the exact same points with a little wikipedia research.

[TheReal Kendall]

Hes got the highest rebounds per game for his career of anyone who didnt play in the 60s(Rodman aside of course...and hes not far from him). Hes shot past some HOF bigmen on the blocks list already(not counting those who played before they were recorded either). All anyone can hate on is his scoring and he has a higher ppg average than...off the top of my head....7 hall of fame centers. But im sure its more than that.

Dwight is probably gonna retire a 12-15 time all star with 10 all nba teams and 3-6 DPOYs. Hes already made the finals. Hes gonna walk into the HOF without much debate.

And there are a lot of people who think he literally sucks.

Hard to be overrated when you are the most accomplished center of your era and a good chunk of people act like you are garbage over being a bad FT shooter....which you have in common with at least....3 of the 5 best centers ever.

Dwight is if anything underrated....because people dont rate him that high to begin with.


Bro he's in an era with no centers. He is clearly the most talented and athletic center in the league now but that's not saying much.

He's not HOF material to me. I just don't see it.

He has no post game and he's not a 1st or 2nd option. The best system for him is to surround him with 3pt shooters and let him get rebounds and putbacks.

[I<3NBA]

no 1 center in the NBA.........very nasty........ just ask lebron and the whole heat team
if he was so nasty, the Heat wouldn't have got past them.

he was battling midgets donw there and still the Heat beat them. let that sink in to you.

if the Heat had anybody just a bit the size of Hibbert, Hibbert would be a non-factor. that tells you how good Hibbert is.

it was mutherfkn Bosh guarding him most of the time! i expect more than just 25 ppg from him if he was just playing against Bosh. he was facing little boys and he could not post 40 pts.

yeah that's nasty.

[Kblaze8855]

What does any of that stuff have to do with watching basketball? A guy who has never seen a game could make the exact same points with a little wikipedia research.

I was thinking something similar believe it or not.

But Dwight has stacked up a pretty wild resume and hes 27 or so years old. Hes hard a HOF career....already.

Walt Bellamy is in for less unless you think hes in for college.

Dwight is just the latest example of the super hated on all time great. Hard to call him overrated when hes a flat out HOF bigman so many people act like is terrible.

"Overrated" should be saved for people.....fans are praising.

Dwight is mostly hated on and he just did 17/12 half healthy in the worst season hes had in years.

Hes too good to be overrated while this hated on.

[SCdac]

Hes got the highest rebounds per game for his career of anyone who didnt play in the 60s(Rodman aside of course...and hes not far from him). Hes shot past some HOF bigmen on the blocks list already(not counting those who played before they were recorded either). All anyone can hate on is his scoring and he has a higher ppg average than...off the top of my head....7 hall of fame centers. But im sure its more than that.

If only NBA was fantasy basketball, in which stats are front and center of any thing that matters.

It's when people actually watch Howard that they take their mind off the box score and stats and see a guy who's relied mostly on athleticism/strength and has glaring weaknesses.

There's more to offense than scoring and just raw PPG stats anyways. There's pacing, controlling the ball, feeling out the defense, picking the D apart, setting teammates up in the post, getting the best play, amount of finesse and dexterity, and so on and so on.

Kevin Love grabbing more rebounds than him and guys like Ibaka or Sanders blocking more shots really puts stats in perspective.

[Kblaze8855]

Bro he's in an era with no centers. He is clearly the most talented and athletic center in the league now but that's not saying much.

He's not HOF material to me. I just don't see it.

He has no post game and he's not a 1st or 2nd option. The best system for him is to surround him with 3pt shooters and let him get rebounds and putbacks.

Reggie Miller was a 5 time all star in like 19 years and never won anything Dwight has not already. In his prime he was getting passed over by coaches in favor of like...Kenny Anderson, Terrell brandon, and so on.

Hes in the HOF for like...6 shots....all but 2 of them in losing series.

Meanwhile there were MVPs who later played big roles on title teams and had legendary international careers who took 15-20 years to get in.

What anyone thinks is HOF worthy at this point is out the window.

No matter what you or I might think a HOF bigman should be...

He is one. And they might as well get the bust ready.

No 10 time all star 3 or more time DPOY who led a finals team and blocked everything near him 10+ years is not going to the HOF.

He would make it eventually if he retired after like...2 more years.

[9erempiree]

Hes got the highest rebounds per game for his career of anyone who didnt play in the 60s(Rodman aside of course...and hes not far from him). Hes shot past some HOF bigmen on the blocks list already(not counting those who played before they were recorded either). All anyone can hate on is his scoring and he has a higher ppg average than...off the top of my head....7 hall of fame centers. But im sure its more than that.

Dwight is probably gonna retire a 12-15 time all star with 10 all nba teams and 3-6 DPOYs. Hes already made the finals. Hes gonna walk into the HOF without much debate.

And there are a lot of people who think he literally sucks.

Hard to be overrated when you are the most accomplished center of your era and a good chunk of people act like you are garbage over being a bad FT shooter....which you have in common with at least....3 of the 5 best centers ever.

Dwight is if anything underrated....because people dont rate him that high to begin with.

Must be drinking on the job again.

lol @ 6 time DPOY. It's not just his free throws, it's also his limited offensive game too.

:facepalm

[Legends66NBA7]

scoring is overrated. chucking shots is easy. playing hero ball is easy.

Ugh, scoring isn't overrated nor is it easy to chuck shots. Infact, scoring is vital just like defense and rebounding. A team needs the whole unit to function if it's going to take big steps to succeed. You need to actually have someone who can keep up the pace of taking many shots and can go if you a decent or better effectiveness. Nothing is easy about it.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Dude just put up 17/12 while not being healthy. if anything he's underrated now. easily the best center in the game.

[SCdac]

The "he's too good to be overrated" spiel is laughable. Any player can be and does get overrated. If anything, it's almost always great players that get overrated.

[Legends66NBA7]

Hes in the HOF for like...6 shots....all but 2 of them in losing series.

Having the all-time 3 point record at the time was more of the reason he got in than the 6 shots.

[Charlie Sheen]

I been saying this.

No post game and he won't demand a double or triple team.

Doesn't know how to keep the ball high and can't shoot.

He's just on the court for rebounds and defense but he can't defend the PnR well.

He's like the 3rd or 4th option at best. Definitely not the main guy.

Best way to play with him is surround him with 3pt shooters and let him rebound


Bro he's in an era with no centers. He is clearly the most talented and athletic center in the league now but that's not saying much.

He's not HOF material to me. I just don't see it.

He has no post game and he's not a 1st or 2nd option. The best system for him is to surround him with 3pt shooters and let him get rebounds and putbacks.

:oldlol: Why are you surrounding him with shooters if he cant draw doubles and create open looks for those shooters?

[9erempiree]

Let's face it Dwight is like Larry Bird. These guys are Era-Specific players. Only good in their era due to multiple factors. There games don't translate to other eras.

[Kblaze8855]

It's when people actually watch Howard that they take their mind off the box score and stats and see a guy who's relied mostly on athleticism/strength and has glaring weaknesses.



Meanwhile....he grabs every board, blocks everything, leads good defenses, drops 40 to get his team to the finals, makes like 8 all star games, outplays 90% of the people opposing him, and will cartwheel into the HOF.

So I have to ask....

So?

Of what relevance is how you do what you do?

What has Marc Gasol with his additional skill actually....done?

Vlade Divac was 5 times as skilled as Dwight. You swap him in Hornets/Kings form for Dwight 08-11 the Magic are nowhere near as good.

So really...what are we talking about?

Skill is one thing....being effective is another.

Give me effective over skilled every time.

[Horde of Temujin]

I was thinking something similar believe it or not.

But Dwight has stacked up a pretty wild resume and hes 27 or so years old. Hes hard a HOF career....already.

Walt Bellamy is in for less unless you think hes in for college.

Dwight is just the latest example of the super hated on all time great. Hard to call him overrated when hes a flat out HOF bigman so many people act like is terrible.

"Overrated" should be saved for people.....fans are praising.

Dwight is mostly hated on and he just did 17/12 half healthy in the worst season hes had in years.

Hes too good to be overrated while this hated on.

I almost always agree with what you post Blaze, but when it comes to Howard I just dont get it, i was never impressed by him and everytime I watch him I come away feeling that he is simply not a great player. To be considered a great player, a top 3-5 in the league as many ranked him up until two years ago then you must have some semblance of an offensive game. He is a great rebounder and a defensive presence but the man can't even catch a ball!

How do you feel he wouldve stacked up in the 80's or 90's? I cant even say with certainty that he was better then Vlade Divac

[1~Gibson~1]

What does any of that stuff have to do with watching basketball? A guy who has never seen a game could make the exact same points with a little wikipedia research.It has little to do with watching basketball I was just praising him for having actual basketball knowledge unlike a number of posters here on ISH. Mainly I was quoting the fact that he said:


And there are a lot of people who think he literally sucks.

Hard to be overrated when you are the most accomplished center of your era and a good chunk of people act like you are garbage over being a bad FT shooter because freethrow shooting is the typical argument when calling Dwight overrated.

And on another note, stats are overrated. I honestly believe some people on ISH don't even watch NBA games, the just look at stats and comment on the game as follows...

[9erempiree]

Can't believe you guys call yourself fans. So-called NBA aficionados proclaiming Dwight a great player.

People are truly disrespecting the past greats.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Weak era for centers

[TheReal Kendall]

:oldlol: Why are you surrounding him with shooters if he cant draw doubles and create open looks for those shooters?

His only success came from being on the Magic with all those 3 pt shooters bro.

He just played D and rebounded while they chunk up shots.

[Suguru101]

Kevin Love will lead the league in rebounding, not Dwight.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Why do people even bother debating with Real Kendall? He is always wrong :oldlol:

[1~Gibson~1]

His only success came from being on the Magic with all those 3 pt shooters bro.

He just played D and rebounded while they chunk up shots.How did those 3 pt shooters get open?

Dwight Howard double teams

[Kblaze8855]

You dont have to have anything in particular to be great. Just be effective. And Dwight is.

I remember a few years ago....maybe year before last. I was watching Dwight play the Bulls(I watch every bulls game).

He probably had 40/20. I dont think the Magic won....but he was unstoppable.

Might have been during that run he putu p like 25/15 for 3 months. I know he was doing like 27/15 for a month of it. I remember the article I read on it.

Kinda makes me wonder how short memories are.

Dwight is the most effective defensive bigman in years and is called a bad scorer when hes doing like 19-20 a game on average for the last 6 years.

A "bad" scorer who can do 20 a game on 55-60% shooting is pretty unheard of. If you could have biceps and jump high to score 20 Dan Gadzuric would be Dwight Howard.

As many athletic bigmen come and go im shocked people think its so easy to do what hes done.

He isnt Ewing/Hakeem/Shaq. Thats painfully obvious.

But you dont be a 23/14 player in the NBA off hops and the weightroom.

[yeaaaman]

I been saying this.

No post game and he won't demand a double or triple team.

Doesn't know how to keep the ball high and can't shoot.

He's just on the court for rebounds and defense but he can't defend the PnR well.

He's like the 3rd or 4th option at best. Definitely not the main guy.

Best way to play with him is surround him with 3pt shooters and let him rebound


I don't really buy that, with poor spacing and offensive utilization, it's easy to negate him because he doesn't have great court awareness. But when he runs to the front of the rim he definitely needs a double team, that's why shooters in ORL got so open. He would get them open without even touching the ball sometimes.

Let's see how the spacing comes together in Houston.

[TheReal Kendall]

Why do people even bother debating with Real Kendall? He is always wrong :oldlol:

How am I wrong bro?

[SCdac]

Meanwhile....he grabs every board, blocks everything, leads good defenses, drops 40 to get his team to the finals, makes like 8 all star games, outplays 90% of the people opposing him, and will cartwheel into the HOF.

So I have to ask....

So?

Of what relevance is how you do what you do?

What has Marc Gasol with his additional skill actually....done?

Vlade Divac was 5 times as skilled as Dwight. You swap him in Hornets/Kings form for Dwight 08-11 the Magic are nowhere near as good.

So really...what are we talking about?

Skill is one thing....being effective is another.

Give me effective over skilled every time.

You keep on mentioning HOF, but we both know getting into the HOF is not the end all be all ("it's not the hall of best" I think were your words not long ago)

Dwight's effectiveness is questionable when you really start to look at his whole game. DPOY type player for sure, but definitely overrated by casual fans and even serious ones... but almost by default (no elite big men nowadays).

In his best season (2011), Atlanta deliberately single covered him in the playoffs because they knew he was not effective enough on offense to warrant double teams. The Magic fell as their shooters fell.

Give me effectiveness when it correlates to lasting, elite skills that translate to playoff success. Even Shaq was highly skilled in the post despite being a bulldozer. Skill and effect are not exclusive to one another.

Personally, I'd take an average center over Dwight if it meant getting that talent/skill/effect/value at another position in the lineup. He's too turnover prone, foul prone, and frankly, dumb, for me to rave highly about him.

Not all 20 point games or seasons are equal. There are qualitative differences, not to mention circumstances, etc.

[TheReal Kendall]

I don't really buy that, with poor spacing and offensive utilization, it's easy to negate him because he doesn't have great court awareness. But when he runs to the front of the rim he definitely needs a double team, that's why shooters in ORL got so open. He would get them open without even touching the ball sometimes.

Let's see how the spacing comes together in Houston.

Alright you're right about that but when I say double or triple team I mean in a sense of throwing it to him in the post and him doing work down there making people doubling or triple him.

Like how Shaq got treated. Give it to Shaq on the block and you have no choice but to bring help.

You can defend Howard 1v1

[Jameerthefear]

You dont have to have anything in particular to be great. Just be effective. And Dwight is.

I remember a few years ago....maybe year before last. I was watching Dwight play the Bulls(I watch every bulls game).

He probably had 40/20. I dont think the Magic won....but he was unstoppable.

Might have been during that run he putu p like 25/15 for 3 months. I know he was doing like 27/15 for a month of it. I remember the article I read on it.

Kinda makes me wonder how short memories are.

Dwight is the most effective defensive bigman in years and is called a bad scorer when hes doing like 19-20 a game on average for the last 6 years.

A "bad" scorer who can do 20 a game on 55-60% shooting is pretty unheard of. If you could have biceps and jump high to score 20 Dan Gadzuric would be Dwight Howard.

As many athletic bigmen come and go im shocked people think its so easy to do what hes done.

He isnt Ewing/Hakeem/Shaq. Thats painfully obvious.

But you dont be a 23/14 player in the NBA off hops and the weightroom.
This is the game your talking about: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201101280CHI.html
Finished with 40/15 on 70% shooting.

[Kblaze8855]

You keep on mentioning HOF, but we both know getting into the HOF is not the end all be all ("it's not the hall of best" I think were your words not long ago)


It is not hall of the best. But nobody has made it in 50 years who deserves the level of disrespect Dwight gets.

Not even the Reggie Millers.

I may think he wasnt special compared to many stars. Nobody has heard me say he is literally...bad.



Dwight's effectiveness is questionable when you really start to look at his whole game. DPOY type player for sure, but definitely overrated by casual fans and even serious ones... but almost by default (no elite big men nowadays).

Casual fans are the most prone to act like he sucks around me. Perhaps because I know many bandwaggon laker fans.


In his best season (2011), Atlanta deliberately single covered him in the playoffs because they knew he was not effective enough on offense to warrant double teams. The Magic fell as their shooters fell.

Lets not act like only Dwight types get single covered in the hopes they cant beat them on their own. Its a tried and true tactic on teams too dependant on one player and the collapsing they force.

Its been going on and getting teams beaten from Wilt, to Kareem, to Shaq, to Dwight.


Give me effectiveness when it correlates to lasting, elite skills that translate to playoff success. Even Shaq was highly skilled in the post despite being a bulldozer. Skill and effect are not exclusive to one another.

Personally, I'd take an average center over Dwight if it meant getting that talent/skill/effect/value at another position in the lineup. He's too turnover prone, foul prone, and frankly, dumb, for me to rave highly about him.

Dwight has had more playoff success than the extreme vast majority of star centers ever. You know how many star centers have never even made a conference finals?

Dwight had made the finals more times than some HOF centers won playoff series in their primes.


Not all 20 point games or seasons are equal. There are qualitative differences, not to mention circumstances, etc.

They are not all equal. But none of them are possible while not being good at basketball.

[Carbine]

SMH X 1000000

Atlanta single covered him....and he killed them.

He had 25/15, 29/17, 21/15, 33/19, 46/19 games and shot probably close to 65 percent from the field, and like 70 percent from the FT line.

In what world is that not effective offense?

[SCdac]

SMH X 1000000

Atlanta single covered him....and he killed them.

He had 25/15, 29/17, 21/15, 33/19, 46/19 games and shot probably close to 65 percent from the field, and like 70 percent from the FT line.

In what world is that not effective offense?

In that series....

6 games

[Carbine]

Why pass the ball when you're getting single covered and going to work to the tune of 65% from the floor and making your free throws?

[tpols]

[QUOTE=SCdac]In that series....

6 games

[SCdac]

Why pass the ball when you're getting single covered and going to work to the tune of 65% from the floor and making your free throws?

Maybe to get your teammates more involved and try to win the game when it's realized Dwight going off is by design of the Hawks defense.. and the Hawks won 3-4 of the first 4 games?

One of the only Orlando wins in the series came with Dwight scoring 8 points.

To be clear, his cast sucked. And Dwights scoring is good-great, but it's not elite. His court vision is not elite. His post skils are not elite. He's highly turnover prone and gets flustered easily.

Ultimately, teams are better off single covering him, because he's not an elite scorer.

He's the definition of overrated IMO.

[tpols]

Why pass the ball when you're getting single covered and going to work to the tune of 65% from the floor and making your free throws?
To boost overall team cohesiveness and confidence?

The whole reason the let one superstar beat you strategy works is because it isolates the teams best player from his own team.

[HurricaneKid]

There is simply no recognition of the changes the game has gone through since the defensive rule changes. It is EASY to get switches from the opposition in almost any PnR set. So the centers of yesteryear CAN'T play as very few of them could even pretend to cover perimeter players. THAT is why Vogel had Hibbert out in end game situations. So the only C in today's game are uniquely athletic guys that can contribute in a very different game.

It is in that world that D12 is easily and handily the best C of the generation. If you don't acknowledge that you are blind to facts and defensive metrics. Has he shown a frustrating lack of offensive growth? Sure. But he also took a team with Hedo Turkeyglue as his #2 to the NBA Finals. That was only 4 years ago. 3 years ago he was robbed of the MVP when DRose laughably won.

There are plenty of nits to pick but if he can regain his health he will be behind a dynamic power shift for Houston.

[SCdac]

Dwight pouting his way to the bench after foul #394838294 :lol

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2540973/howarddealwithit.gif

[Legends66NBA7]

Maybe to get your teammates more involved and try to win the game when it's realized Dwight going off is by design of the Hawks defense.. and the Hawks won 3-4 of the first 4 games?

Because all his teammates shot like garbage that series. Nelson had more shots than Howard and he went 31 for 82 for 38/23 from 3 shooting.


The only Orlando win in the series came with Dwight scoring 8 points.

Game 2 win, Howard has 33/19 on 75%. Rest of the team went 18 for 66 from the field. The starters: Hedo 4 for 16, Nelson 4 for 15, Richardson 3 for 12, Bass 2 for 6... Redick 1 for 6 too.

[Unbiased_one]

Now we know you never watched Shaq play before phx

Every 'weakness' the OP gave was also a 'weakness' of shaq's...and shaq was the most dominant basketball fore I've ever seen

[Carbine]

To boost overall team cohesiveness and confidence?

The whole reason the let one superstar beat you strategy works is because it isolates the teams best player from his own team.

So Dwight should've just passed the ball around like a hot potato then?

I don't get what you want Dwight to do there. If nobody double teams you...go to work. He did that, like a superstar should.

You don't get the ball as a superstar....then pass it out for the sake of passing.

His teammates shot 36 percent for the series. So how does it make sense to throw the ball back out from the post when you're not getting doubled if you're teammates can't do shit, but you can go to work to the tune of 65 percent from the field and 70 percent from the line?

Only on ISH could Dwight get bashed for playing aggressive and assertive and shooting the absurd percentages he was shooting.

[yeaaaman]

[QUOTE=SCdac]In that series....

6 games

[SilkkTheShocker]

So Dwight should've just passed the ball around like a hot potato then?

I don't get what you want Dwight to do there. If nobody double teams you...go to work. He did that, like a superstar should.

You don't get the ball as a superstar....then pass it out for the sake of passing.

His teammates shot 36 percent for the series. So how does it make sense to throw the ball back out from the post when you're not getting doubled if you're teammates can't do shit, but you can go to work to the tune of 65 percent from the field and 70 percent from the line?

Only on ISH could Dwight get bashed for playing aggressive and assertive and shooting the absurd percentages he was shooting.

There is honestly no point of even arguing with tpols. This is the same guy that shits on Dwight every chance he gets. But will prop up Bosh even after he scores 0 points in a playoff game. He always has an agenda. And its usually to cover Kobe's ass.

[tpols]

So Dwight should've just passed the ball around like a hot potato then?

I don't get what you want Dwight to do there. If nobody double teams you...go to work. He did that, like a superstar should.

You don't get the ball as a superstar....then pass it out for the sake of passing.

His teammates shot 36 percent for the series. So how does it make sense to throw the ball back out from the post when you're not getting doubled if you're teammates can't do shit, but you can go to work to the tune of 65 percent from the field and 70 percent from the line?

Only on ISH could Dwight get bashed for playing aggressive and assertive and shooting the absurd percentages he was shooting.
When your assists to turnover ratio is 3/33 or .1 that is only going to kill your team when your the only reliable means of generating offense. The team flowed better offensively when Turkgolu was the primary creator and Dwight was more in a secondary offensive role.. especially down the stretch of tight games, it was Hedo controlling the offense that made it sync when they went on their run to the finals. Dwight never had control of anything. He cant manipulate a defense with multi faceted play..

You say he scored with absurd efficiency.. but dont take into account his extremely high turnover rate. Id love to see what Dwights point per possesion was with turnovers and offensive fouls factored in instead of looking solely at his FG possesion.

I mean, its so dumb. Howard can dunk twice, miss a jump hook and turn it over once and hes shooting an a godly 66% from the field when it reality that one turnover drops it 16 percent.

His scoring is good, his overall offensive game of playmaking + scoring is average at best. Thats where hes overrated. All you bring up is ppg and FG and ignore his other major deficiencies that have all been exposed numerous times.

[Heavincent]

Howard is the most overrated player in the NBA.

[COnDEMnED]

So overrated that you'd jizz your pants if your team got him.

All you fucbois say the same thing about players you can't have. Why do you think Rose gets hated on so much?
Is Rose still in the NBA? LOL just kidding!!

[I<3NBA]

Ugh, scoring isn't overrated nor is it easy to chuck shots. Infact, scoring is vital just like defense and rebounding. A team needs the whole unit to function if it's going to take big steps to succeed. You need to actually have someone who can keep up the pace of taking many shots and can go if you a decent or better effectiveness. Nothing is easy about it.
you haven't played a lick of basketball, have you?

try. let's see which you find harder. chucking shots or defending.

you're just a keyboard warrior that's never even played basketball.

[COnDEMnED]

Every 'weakness' the OP gave was also a 'weakness' of shaq's...and shaq was the most dominant basketball fore I've ever seen
Shaq was a beast on offense. Had post moves. Imposed his will on offense. Slammed the ball down and his nuts in defenders face at the same time. Dwight is no Shaq.

[Jameerthefear]

The turnovers were not all of Dwight's fault. It was the way the team was set up, we were one dimensional on offense, and if you think '11 Hedo was even close to where he was in '09 then you're crazy.

[The Iron Fist]

:oldlol: You've literally just described an amazing basketball player with one weakness (freethrows).

and since when is it bad to have blocked shots go out of bounds? THE SHOT IS BLOCKED YOU DUMBA**!
If you can expend that much energy to force it out of bounds, you can easily grab it.

[ShaqAttack3234]

In his best season (2011), Atlanta deliberately single covered him in the playoffs because they knew he was not effective enough on offense to warrant double teams. The Magic fell as their shooters fell.

Well, yeah, when you shoot as bad as they did in the series, I mean after Dwight, there was Nelson at 13 ppg/38%, J-Rich at 10 ppg/33%, Hedo at 9 ppg/29%, Anderson at 5 ppg/27%, Bass at 7 ppg/42%, Redick at 7 ppg/36% all playing 20 mpg.

Every star needs SOME help, so yeah, they went as the shooters went because the shooters were liabilities at that point. That's more of an indictment on Dwight's teammates if they can't score without Dwight getting doubled.

As you acknowledged before, his cast just wasn't good at that point. They could get hot for a game every now and then, but be just as cold, and certainly weren't consistent.

That's why saying things like they went as the shooters went is deceptive because Dwight was the constant at that point. It's like those who use to say Lamar Odom was the Lakers most important Laker because if he played well they were unbeatable, but he was inconsistent while Kobe and Pau were constants.

And as KBlaze mentioned, Atlanta's strategy is hardly original. I've seen it used against Shaq effectively. Utah swept LA with prime Shaq averaging 32 in '98, but largely against single coverage. Same thing with a slightly past his prime Shaq in '04 vs Detroit.

Granted, Dwight even at his best in '11, was nowhere near the offensive player Shaq was. Just pointing out that the strategy isn't necessarily used out of disrespect for the opponents offensive game. I've seen teams pretty much dare Lebron to try to beat him by himself, in fact, the Orlando Magic did that while beating Cleveland in '09. Phoenix tried baiting Kobe into doing it in '06, though he didn't take the bait and was more of a facilitator that series.

[1~Gibson~1]

If you can expend that much energy to force it out of bounds, you can easily grab it.
If grabbing it is as easy as you put it, he'd do it more often.

[Legends66NBA7]

you haven't played a lick of basketball, have you?

Played basketball well over 20+ years and counting.

I think it's safe to say I've played long enough.


try. let's see which you find harder. chucking shots or defending.

What are even taking into factor ? A 1 on 1 game or teammates on your side ? It even depends on what I'm doing for my side. You can't be effective at both if your considering playing high energy for both. My opinion is that both are pretty damn hard (like I mentioned, both are equal), but it seems you've missed out a part about "chucking shots" again. It's about keeping it up for a season. Look at the history of great players who have taken a lot of shots:

Wilt near 40 shots a game playing every minute, Jordan 28 shots, Rick Barry 28 shots, etc... none of that is easy.

Even further looking down the game I think most will come to the conclusion that individually it's harder to find great scorers that can create, score at will (dominant like a Shaq for example), be volume ("chuck") than great individual defenders. Team wise, more teams will try to play better team defense to contain individual great offense.


you're just a keyboard warrior that's never even played basketball.

I've probably played basketball longer than you have, so you can save the keyboard warrior garbage for yourself.

[SCdac]

Granted, Dwight even at his best in '11, was nowhere near the offensive player Shaq was.

That's for sure.Even putting them in the same sentence is an insult IMO. Shaq is a gamer. Somebody who could give you 40 and you wouldn't even be shocked. Shaq put up 40 and 8 assists in a finals game one time.

While I agree it's not always a "disrespect" to use that strategy – I do think Howard as a franchise big man was exposed by it as being highly flawed and one-note on offense. Rather than Lebron comparison (who, relative to Dwight, is an All-time great passer), I think it's more comparable to the way Spurs played the Suns with Amare in 2005. Let him go off, stay home on shooters (also a three point shooting team), because Amare like Dwight is an average passer/facilitator at best.

One of the main points is... it's not all about PPG, RPG, and FG% when looking at this player.

[ShaqAttack3234]

[QUOTE=SCdac]That's for sure.Even putting them in the same sentence is an insult IMO. Shaq is a gamer. Somebody who could give you 40 and you wouldn't even be shocked. Shaq put up 40 and 8 assists in a finals game one time.

While I agree it's not always a "disrespect" to use that strategy

[NumberSix]

Dwight might be the most underrated player in the NBA.

[Nick Young]

The turnovers were not all of Dwight's fault. It was the way the team was set up, we were one dimensional on offense, and if you think '11 Hedo was even close to where he was in '09 then you're crazy.
so many excuses for this scrub! Dwight won nothing in 11 and he treated your favorite team like shit! Stop defending him you moron.


Even Kareem, THE GOAT SCORER OF ALL TIME recently said Dwight is useless on offense and has no post moves and gets stripped all the time and hasnt improved at all since 09.

Does KAJ not know what he's talking about?

[Legends66NBA7]

Come to think of it... I don't think he's either overrated or underrated when discussing this with most fans since most would rank him Top 10-15 from last season and that was his off year.

He's a Top 5-10 player when healthy and if Howard could ever maintain his peak form in 2011, then he has a chance to be amongst the Top 3, behind James and Durant. It would also depend what happens with Chris Paul's game, but I think Howard can edge him out at his best or becomes even better.

[ShaqAttack3234]

so many excuses for this scrub! Dwight won nothing in 11 and he treated your favorite team like shit! Stop defending him you moron.


Even Kareem, THE GOAT SCORER OF ALL TIME recently said Dwight is useless on offense and has no post moves and gets stripped all the time and hasnt improved at all since 09.

Does KAJ not know what he's talking about?

KAJ never said Dwight was useless. He said Dwight is a reminder that "potential has a shelf life" meaning he doesn't think Dwight has or will reach his full potential. A big stretch from your troll post.

And yes, Dwight did show noticeable improvements from '09 to '11, though he's regressed since then. I know you're not to be taken seriously, so I'll make this quick. There's a reason Dwight's improved offensive game was noted and acknowledged league wide DURING the 2011 season. What he's done since then has nothing to do with how he played in 2011.

[Nick Young]

Every argument you make there could be applied to shaq... You saying he's useless too?
Except Shaq was MDE, had elite footwork, elite touch, a ton of post moves and was taller and stronger then Howard and a better athlete and most importantly had killer instinct.

Dwight is more comparable to Alonzo Mourning.

[SCdac]

Another thing.... Dwight being turnover prone is not an isolated incident.It's not just the Atlanta series. It's not just the playoffs.

Howard LEAD all big men in turnovers in these seasons:

2007 --- lead entire league
2008
2009
2010 --- 2nd in entire league
2011 --- 3rd in entire league
2012

Now, to be fair, he's not the only great big man to be turnover-prone. Hakeem for instance turned the ball over alot, comparable amount for sure, but the big difference is their ability to play-make in the post, create offense based off their own offense, and offset the many turnovers. Dwight is not great at offsetting the many turnovers. First 5-6 years in the league, it's understandable, but he hasn't shown marked improvement in that area. He's not a natural when it comes to court vision, and he won't become one. He's improved his flaws at different points of his career, but not enough imo.

[Kblaze8855]

In that series....

6 games – 33 turnovers – 25 fouls – 3 assists

:roll:

That's Howard in a nutshell.?

So dwight does 27/16 on 63% shooting and you find it something to laugh at due to turnovers and low assists when his teammates shoot like shit? Jameer 38%, Hedo 29, Jrich 33, Reddick 36, Anderson 26 Bass and Arenas 43.

They do nothing.

Dwight does 27/16 on 63%.

You laugh at him.

But hes overrated.

You really dont see the problem there?

Being overrated is an issue of where people generally rank you vs how good you actually are.

If you didnt notice...Dwight is the most hated on player of the last....6-8 months.

The most hated on player in the league has never been overrated. It would be damn near impossible. Too many act like hes a scrub(in this topic alone) to pretend hes generally overrated.

You have people laughing at him doing Shaq numbers....

[Nick Young]

So dwight does 27/16 on 63% shooting and you find it something to laugh at due to turnovers and low assists when his teammates shoot like shit? Jameer 38%, Hedo 29, Jrich 33, Reddick 36, Anderson 26 Bass and Arenas 43.

They do nothing.

Dwight does 27/16 on 63%.

You laugh at him.

But hes overrated.

You really dont see the problem there?

Being overrated is an issue of where people generally rank you vs how good you actually are.

If you didnt notice...Dwight is the most hated on player of the last....6-8 months.

The most hated on player in the league has never been overrated. It would be damn near impossible. Too many act like hes a scrub(in this topic alone) to pretend hes generally overrated.

You have people laughing at him doing Shaq numbers....
Dwight is a glorified garbageman.

Fans of contending teams have seen this for a long time.

Fans of scrub teams call him a superstar.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Another thing.... Dwight being turnover prone is not an isolated incident.It's not just the Atlanta series. It's not just the playoffs.

Howard LEAD all big men in turnovers in these seasons:

2007 --- lead entire league
2008
2009
2010 --- 2nd in entire league
2011 --- 3rd in entire league
2012

Now, to be fair, he's not the only great big man to be turnover-prone. Hakeem for instance turned the ball over alot, comparable amount for sure, but the big difference is their ability to play-make in the post, create offense based off their own offense, and offset the many turnovers. Dwight is not great at offsetting the many turnovers. First 5-6 years in the league, it's understandable, but he hasn't shown marked improvement in that area. He's not a natural when it comes to court vision, and he won't become one. He's improved his flaws at different points of his career, but not enough imo.

Yeah, Dwight's turnovers are an issue and have been, but nobody is saying he's flawless. You mentioned other big men having turnover problems, well Moses Malone's assist/turnover numbers were at least as bad as Dwight's, if not worse. Malone was a better scorer than Dwight of course, but not a better passer, and certainly not a more willing passer.

[NumberSix]

Dwight will be a top 3 player this season. Don't let his 1 injury season in a system that misused him fool you into thinking he's not Dwight Howard anymore.

[SCdac]

You have people laughing at him doing Shaq numbers....

"Doing Shaq numbers"? :facepalm

Is that supposed to mean he was like Shaq? comparable to Shaq? effect of Shaq? channeling Shaq?

The association to Shaq I find laughable, having watched both players.

Numbers aren't everything... and yes I realize you quoted a post of mine that had numbers... But the effect of a turnover is so costly, for a number of reasons, and everybody knows it. Dont think I need to explain.

Dwight is only hated recently because of his attitude, weak offensive game, all the foul problems, no jump shot... it was all finally witnessed on the biggest stage/market there is the NBA. He got to LA and his flaws were exposed , and coming off major surgery obviously didn't help. If he had started his career in LA it would have been noticed sooner.

[Legends66NBA7]

If you didnt notice...Dwight is the most hated on player of the last....6-8 months.

The most hated on player in the league has never been overrated. It would be damn near impossible. Too many act like hes a scrub(in this topic alone) to pretend hes generally overrated.

I think he's hated on more on the fact that he sets himself up in that way. Examples like in the off season with Orlando, Stan Van Gundy, his attitude at times, criticism of being soft. He gets clowned because he acts like that in more ways than one.

But yeah, the scrub shit is stupid. That's just the hate going to the extreme.

[Horde of Temujin]

Come to think of it... I don't think he's either overrated or underrated when discussing this with most fans since most would rank him Top 10-15 from last season and that was his off year.

He's a Top 5-10 player when healthy and if Howard could ever maintain his peak form in 2011, then he has a chance to be amongst the Top 3, behind James and Durant. It would also depend what happens with Chris Paul's game, but I think Howard can edge him out at his best or becomes even better.

I honestly dont see how was top 10-15? Maybe among centers?
This is just off the top of my head:
Duncan
Kobe
Brook lopez
Parker
Paul
Harden
Westbrook
Durant
Lebron
Melo
S. Curry
Noah
Horford
Marc Gasol
Z Randolph
Pekovic
Dirk

[NumberSix]

I think he's hated on more on the fact that he sets himself up in that way. Examples like in the off season with Orlando, Stan Van Gundy, his attitude at times, criticism of being soft. He gets clowned because he acts like that in more way than one.

But yeah, the scrub shit is stupid. That's just the hate going to the extreme.
Does he?

I still don't understand why anybody hates this guy. It's beyond me why people create some weird pseudo-morality to sports.

Sure, he got SVG fired, but even Stan is still friends with Dwight. If Stan is friends with Dwight, wtf is your excuse for hating him?

[Kblaze8855]

Anyone who paid so little attention to the NBA as to need Dwight on the Lakers to see and understand his game isnt even a real fan...and their opinions mean nothing to me.

I made a topic on that early in the year and I was surprised how many Laker fans admitted they didnt even watch him in Orlando.

Anyone so ignorant of the games top players shouldnt be taken serious to begin with.

But fact is...they exist in large numbers. Too large to say someone they hate on so much is overrated.

[SCdac]

Yeah, Dwight's turnovers are an issue and have been, but nobody is saying he's flawless. You mentioned other big men having turnover problems, well Moses Malone's assist/turnover numbers were at least as bad as Dwight's, if not worse. Malone was a better scorer than Dwight of course, but not a better passer, and certainly not a more willing passer.

The Moses comparison I find much more valid than, say, Shaq or Kareem or Duncan. Albeit Moses did seem like more of a natural scorer than DH. I'd be lying if I said I was watching malone in his prime, so I can only say so much. But I've watched and know enough about him after the fact, he was a better offensive player than Howard.

[Mr Exlax]

Anyone who paid so little attention to the NBA as to need Dwight on the Lakers to see and understand his game isnt even a real fan...and their opinions mean nothing to me.

I made a topic on that early in the year and I was surprised how many Laker fans admitted they didnt even watch him in Orlando.

Anyone so ignorant of the games top players shouldnt be taken serious to begin with.

But fact is...they exist in large numbers. Too large to say someone they hate on so much is overrated.

Thank you. I asked the question if any Lakers fans that were ragging on him last season saw him when he played in Orlando. They couldn't have because the Dwight Howard they got is nowhere near what he was before the back surgery. He was a completely different player after working with Hakeem and he even added a few more moves after that.

[yeaaaman]

So dwight does 27/16 on 63% shooting and you find it something to laugh at due to turnovers and low assists when his teammates shoot like shit? Jameer 38%, Hedo 29, Jrich 33, Reddick 36, Anderson 26 Bass and Arenas 43.

They do nothing.

Dwight does 27/16 on 63%.

You laugh at him.

But hes overrated.

You really dont see the problem there?

Being overrated is an issue of where people generally rank you vs how good you actually are.

If you didnt notice...Dwight is the most hated on player of the last....6-8 months.

The most hated on player in the league has never been overrated. It would be damn near impossible. Too many act like hes a scrub(in this topic alone) to pretend hes generally overrated.

You have people laughing at him doing Shaq numbers....

And that's the ironic part.

This forum is hit and miss for thoughtful discussion nowadays, I rarely come on anymore but people generally seem to have a very hard time disassociating what they feel in their hearts vs. what they see with their eyes and can analyze with their mind. It's all jumbled together with a dash of media perception and trending topics. Usually makes for shitty discussion.

[Orlando Magic]

Anyone who paid so little attention to the NBA as to need Dwight on the Lakers to see and understand his game isnt even a real fan...and their opinions mean nothing to me.

I made a topic on that early in the year and I was surprised how many Laker fans admitted they didnt even watch him in Orlando.

Anyone so ignorant of the games top players shouldnt be taken serious to begin with.

But fact is...they exist in large numbers. Too large to say someone they hate on so much is overrated.

:applause:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Howard is sooooo overrated he only won 3 DPOYs playing on teams full of terrible defenders.

[Legends66NBA7]

I honestly dont see how was top 10-15? Maybe among centers?
This is just off the top of my head:
Duncan
Kobe
Brook lopez
Parker
Paul
Harden
Westbrook
Durant
Lebron
Melo
S. Curry
Noah
Horford
Marc Gasol
Z Randolph
Pekovic
Dirk

If it's this coming season going forward and Howard comes back at Top form, he will be better than the bolded. Even Chris Paul isn't that much of a guarantee, but I do prefer him running the offense and clutch ability so I will give him the edge for now.

[Legends66NBA7]

If Stan is friends with Dwight, wtf is your excuse for hating him?

Eh, I've never liked Howard if your asking me this question. Wasn't sure if that was just a question to me or the general.

Anyways, people can like or dislike whoever they want. Just the way of life. In case for big man, it's always been dislike.

[waseem780]

Poor mans shaq with better defense and weaker mentally

[eeeeeebro]

Dwight cant shoot free throws and when he scored 20/40 that was on a rookie joakim noah and a viny that allowed kings comeback from 35 down. joakim that was hurt.. Joakim is now legitimate and Dwight would never muscle him out like he did then. In a game that championships are decided by sometimes 2 points or even 1 point you do not want someone that cant hit free throws. I don't care what hes done or how good he is. The guy cant shoot so just don't let him get in dunk range and you are fine. If I was a coach put Dwight in a game and i'll send a dorfus rookie out there to intentialy foul him for a clear cheap ass advantage and i'd move on. Now joakim noah he might not be capable of muscling down auto dunks under the rim but he will put himself in a situation to get some decent points and when he is fouled he will make his shots.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Numbers aren't everything... and yes I realize you quoted a post of mine that had numbers... But the effect of a turnover is so costly, for a number of reasons, and everybody knows it. Dont think I need to explain.

Yeah, but the type of turnovers matter as well. A lot of Dwight's turnovers in the Atlanta series were offensive fouls as well as a number of traveling violations, 3 second violations and losing the ball out of bounds. The really damaging turnovers are when you throw a bad pass or are stripped and it leads to a fastbreak at the other end. Otherwise, the turnover is simply like a missed shot.

I'd have to go back and track his turnovers and what kind they were, but off memory, I don't remember them leading to a ton of baskets.


The Moses comparison I find much more valid than, say, Shaq or Kareem or Duncan. Albeit Moses did seem like more of a natural scorer than DH. I'd be lying if I said I was watching malone in his prime, so I can only say so much. But I've watched and know enough about him after the fact, he was a better offensive player than Howard.

I agree. Moses and Dwight are very different players, but just speaking about turnovers and passing, I think it's a decent analogy. Their only other similarities as players are that they're dominant rebounders, though they did it in different ways. Moses was obviously better than Dwight regardless. In another tier as far as dominance.

[spiegel]

A guy coming back off back surgey and busted shulder averages 18 points 12 boards 2 blocks and is overrated. Once he becomes somewhat healthier this season, 22 points 14 boards 3 blocks will be his going price.