1998 Jordan gets underrated by most here.

[lakers_forever]

62 wins, titles, MVP, FMVP, consensus best player in the NBA. He averaged 28, 5 and 3. But he was much better than his numbers. Everyone feared him and he did everything needed to win.

Look at what he did to the Spurs (basically the team that won it all in 99) with a near prime Robinson (21, 10, 2) and a rookie Tim Duncan (averaged 21, 11,2 - no question better than this years version of Duncan).

Does anybody seriously believe those Bulls would not have finished the 2013 Spurs in less than 7 games?

If Hibbert did that to the heat, the 1998 Spurs with Robinson and Duncan could sweep them.

Anyway, MJ in action against the Spurs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQePkBnD0vo
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199803140SAS.html

MJ, GOAT. :bowdown: :bowdown:

Call me insane, but I would not trade (for just that season) MJ for current Lebron or prime Kobe. Lebron and prime Kobe might have been better players than a 35 year old Jordan, but I don't think they would have the mental strengh and the aura of invincibilityto lead those Bulls to a title.

EDIT: Instead of most, read "by some".

[Young X]

I feel the same way, I'd trust '98 MJ over Lebron or Kobe in the playoffs to win a title, I don't care how old he was.

[Trollsmasher]

62 wins, titles, MVP, FMVP, consensus best player in the NBA. He averaged 28, 5 and 3. But he was much better than his numbers. Everyone feared him and he did everything needed to win.

Look at what he did to the Spurs (basically the team that won it all in 99) with a near prime Robinson (21, 10, 2) and a rookie Tim Duncan (averaged 21, 11,2 - no question better than this years version of Duncan).

Does anybody seriously believe those Bulls would not have finished the 2013 Spurs in less than 7 games?

If Hibbert did that to the heat, the 1998 Spurs with Robinson and Duncan could sweep them.

Anyway, MJ in action against the Spurs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQePkBnD0vo
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199803140SAS.html

MJ, GOAT. :bowdown: :bowdown:

Call me insane, but I would not trade (for just that season) MJ for current Lebron or prime Kobe. Lebron and prime Kobe might have been better players than a 35 year old Jordan, but I don't think they would have the mental strengh and the aura of invincibilityto lead those Bulls to a title.

EDIT: Instead of most, read "by some".
I think 2012 and 2013 LeBron proved he has enough mental strenght.

[PJR]

Agreed. Dude was killin niqqas in the post that entire season. He was carrying that team virtually all season with Pippen out for pretty much half the year with the back issues.

[tikay0]

That's what happens when a new crop of NBA fans comes along. Same thing with Kobe, same thing with Lebron. If Wiggins turns into the player most people think he will, then there'll be a Wiggin contingent as well.

Same shit different toilet. The only thing is, MJ has yet to relinquish the throne.

Kobe, not even close. Lebron, way too many flaws and blemishes. Wiggins has a chance to LEGITIMATELY be the heir apparent, but doubt it.

[(e)]

Jordan in general gets underrated here. I'd bet most posters have never watched him play outside of highlights.

[dh144498]

Jordan in general gets underrated here. I'd bet most posters have never watched him play outside of highlights.

this.

[kamil]

Jordan in general gets underrated here. I'd bet most posters have never watched him play outside of highlights.

All the LeBron* dickriders like trollsmasher make it seem as if MJ was less of a player than he really was. These noobs dont realize the league basically created the 'jordan rules' on how to guard him and consistently double and triple teamed him.

LeBron*? dude is purposely left wide open cuz he doesnt have a jumpshot... IN THE FINALS.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[tikay0]

All the LeBron* dickriders like trollsmasher make it seem as if MJ was less of a player than he really was. These noobs dont realize the league basically created the 'jordan rules' on how to guard him and consistently double and triple teamed him.

LeBron*? dude is purposely left wide open cuz he doesnt have a jumpshot... IN THE FINALS.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Precisely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-qGWkiKvQ

[Soundwave]

I feel the same way, I'd trust '98 MJ over Lebron or Kobe in the playoffs to win a title, I don't care how old he was.

Yup, I always get the sense that LeBron and Kobe are on the verge of f*cking things up when ever they are in the Finals. Sometimes they pull it out, sometimes they don't.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Agreed. Dude was killin niqqas in the post that entire season. He was carrying that team virtually all season with Pippen out for pretty much half the year with the back issues.
Pippen was a shell of himself in the playoffs offensively for the entire 2nd three-peat.

People want to complain about Wade's nagging injuries in 2012 and 2013, his offensive numbers were much more appealing than what Pip brought to that table on offense. And Wade's still had some major games where he took over and won contests in both the 2012 and 2013 playoffs / Finals.

And even though Pippen was clearly the better defender, the difference between Pippen and Wade's defense is closer than Pippen's abilities and production on offense compared to Wade.

MJ's '98 is very slept on. He had no business being the best player in the league, or the MVP. Had a damn near cut off finger due to a cigar accident after the last championship, a messed up shooting wrist all season, and he dragged the Bulls with no Pippen for half the season, a Rodman that wasn't as focused as seasons prior, with Jason Caffey being arguably the Bulls 2nd best player until Pippen came back.

He was amazing, all season. 35 years old, you shouldn't be willing your team to championships. That's MAJOR heart right there.

[tikay0]

Pippen was a shell of himself in the playoffs offensively for the entire 2nd three-peat.

People want to complain about Wade's nagging injuries in 2012 and 2013, his offensive numbers were much more appealing than what Pip brought to that table on offense. And Wade's still had some major games where he took over and won contests in both the 2012 and 2013 playoffs / Finals.

And even though Pippen was clearly the better defender, the difference between Pippen and Wade's defense is closer than Pippen's abilities and production on offense compared to Wade.

MJ's '98 is very slept on. He had no business being the best player in the league, or the MVP. Had a damn near cut off finger due to a cigar accident after the last championship, a messed up shooting wrist all season, and he dragged the Bulls with no Pippen for half the season, a Rodman that wasn't as focused as seasons prior, with Jason Caffey being arguably the Bulls 2nd best player until Pippen came back.

He was amazing, all season. 35 years old, you shouldn't be willing your team to championships. That's MAJOR heart right there.

Broken down to the tee. I totally remember the MJ/cigar cutter incident. That was the biggest news at my school for like a week. :oldlol:

[kamil]

Pippen was a shell of himself in the playoffs offensively for the entire 2nd three-peat.

People want to complain about Wade's nagging injuries in 2012 and 2013, his offensive numbers were much more appealing than what Pip brought to that table on offense. And Wade's still had some major games where he took over and won contests in both the 2012 and 2013 playoffs / Finals.

And even though Pippen was clearly the better defender, the difference between Pippen and Wade's defense is closer than Pippen's abilities and production on offense compared to Wade.

MJ's '98 is very slept on. He had no business being the best player in the league, or the MVP. Had a damn near cut off finger due to a cigar accident after the last championship, a messed up shooting wrist all season, and he dragged the Bulls with no Pippen for half the season, a Rodman that wasn't as focused as seasons prior, with Jason Caffey being arguably the Bulls 2nd best player until Pippen came back.

He was amazing, all season. 35 years old, you shouldn't be willing your team to championships. That's MAJOR heart right there.

After Pippen and Rodman, Bulls' next go to guy was Kukoc. After that, I always thought Ron Harper was their next best player. Longley I was never too fond of.

[TheReal Kendall]

Precisely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-qGWkiKvQ

:applause:


I always rooted against Jordan growing up but you gotta show love to the man. He is the GOAT:bowdown:

[SamuraiSWISH]

After Pippen and Rodman, Bulls' next go to guy was Kukoc. After that, I always thought Ron Harper was their next best player. Longley I was never too fond of.
Nah, Kukoc was always so inconsistent for my tastes. He'd be on fire for a game or two, and then go MIA for stretches.

[Legends66NBA7]

Jordan in general gets underrated here. I'd bet most posters have never watched him play outside of highlights.

And even then, the majority ranks him as the greatest of all-time. How is he underrated ?

[jlip]

And even then, the majority ranks him as the greatest of all-time. How is he underrated ?

Exactly. With the deification of MJ and everything he did as a basketball player, I don't see how it's humanly possible to say that anything about him can be considered "underrated."

[Smoke117]

The "Jordan rules" were in full effect in 98. How is it that a 34 year old Jordan takes more ft's (8.8) than he has since the 1989 season (9.8) when he was 25? He was attacking the rim less and less as he got older...yet somehow he averages the most ft's since about 10 years ago? You couldn't even breathe on him in 98.

[TheAnchorman]

Broken down to the tee. I totally remember the MJ/cigar cutter incident. That was the biggest news at my school for like a week. :oldlol:
For the record that incident happened after the 98 championship, so the only effect it had was on Wizards Jordan.

[Solid Snake]

Pippen was a shell of himself in the playoffs offensively for the entire 2nd three-peat.

People want to complain about Wade's nagging injuries in 2012 and 2013, his offensive numbers were much more appealing than what Pip brought to that table on offense. And Wade's still had some major games where he took over and won contests in both the 2012 and 2013 playoffs / Finals.

And even though Pippen was clearly the better defender, the difference between Pippen and Wade's defense is closer than Pippen's abilities and production on offense compared to Wade.

MJ's '98 is very slept on. He had no business being the best player in the league, or the MVP. Had a damn near cut off finger due to a cigar accident after the last championship, a messed up shooting wrist all season, and he dragged the Bulls with no Pippen for half the season, a Rodman that wasn't as focused as seasons prior, with Jason Caffey being arguably the Bulls 2nd best player until Pippen came back.

He was amazing, all season. 35 years old, you shouldn't be willing your team to championships. That's MAJOR heart right there.

This happened after the final championship.

[tikay0]

For the record that incident happened after the 98 championship, so the only effect it had was on Wizards Jordan.

OK. :confusedshrug:

[SamuraiSWISH]

The "Jordan rules" were in full effect in 98. How is it that a 34 year old Jordan takes more ft's (8.8) than he has since the 1989 season (9.8) when he was 25? He was attacking the rim less and less as he got older...yet somehow he averages the most ft's since about 10 years ago? You couldn't even breathe on him in 98.
League rules on defending perimeter players were gradually getting softer post 1994, and of course MJ was getting very savvy in his techniques drawing fouls. Don't sound so bitter that MJ pulled the Bulls weight without Pippen.

Correction, the cigar incident was summer of '98, I got it confused. My fault. That must have been one hell of a drunk night that MJ cut his own finger with a cigar cutter ... so tipsy he thought his finger was a stogie?

:oldlol:

[TonyMontana]

Look at what he did to the Spurs (basically the team that won it all in 99) with a near prime Robinson (21, 10, 2) and a rookie Tim Duncan (averaged 21, 11,2 - no question better than this years version of Duncan).

Does anybody seriously believe those Bulls would not have finished the 2013 Spurs in less than 7 games?

If Hibbert did that to the heat, the 1998 Spurs with Robinson and Duncan could sweep them.


What does Jordan do to stop guys like Hibbert/Duncan/Robinson/big men?

Nothing. His team just had better rebounders and interior defenders. See 1995 without Horace Grant/Rodman and look at how Shaq/Horace destroyed them. Bulls didn't win shit when in the same boat as LeBrons Heat.

I don't think anyone has ever argued that these Heat teams are better than the 90s Bulls. These Heat teams are one of the most FLAWED champions of all-time. No other champion has ever had as glaring a weakness in the interior as the Heat.

LeBron has to be his teams best scorer, rebounder, perimeter defender, post defender, facilitator, ball handler EVERYTHING for his Heat to have a chance at winning against quality teams in the playoffs. He has performed beautifully when facing adversity these past two years. The best among any perimeter player ever.

Anyone that doesn't see LeBron is more valuable to his team is just a victim of Jordan propaganda or a Jordan dicksucker. Take your pick.

[Smoke117]

League rules on defending perimeter players were gradually getting softer post 1994, and of course MJ was getting very savvy in his techniques drawing fouls. Don't sound so bitter that MJ pulled the Bulls weight without Pippen.

Correction, the cigar incident was summer of '98, I got it confused. My fault. That must have been one hell of a drunk night that MJ cut his own finger with a cigar cutter ... so tipsy he thought his finger was a stogie?

:oldlol:

I don't give a shit about that. I watched the Bulls play...with his retirement announcement before the season and all that shit...he was getting every single call. It is just absurd for a player to average more ft's than he has since he was 25 at 34 when his game had changed and he was shooting jump shots more than he was attacking the rim.

Would you shut the **** up about Scottie Pippen? I've never made a thread on him and haven't really cared to post much of anything in threads about him in over a year. You're a ****ing Jordan stan who needs to stfu.

[dh144498]

What does Jordan do to stop guys like Hibbert/Duncan/Robinson/big men?

Nothing. His team just had better rebounders and interior defenders. See 1995 without Horace Grant/Rodman and look at how Shaq/Horace destroyed them. Bulls didn't win shit when in the same boat as LeBrons Heat.

I don't think anyone has ever argued that these Heat teams are better than the 90s Bulls. These Heat teams are one of the most FLAWED champions of all-time. No other champion has ever had as glaring a weakness in the interior as the Heat.

LeBron has to be his teams best scorer, rebounder, perimeter defender, post defender, facilitator, ball handler EVERYTHING for his Heat to have a chance at winning against quality teams in the playoffs. He has performed beautifully when facing adversity these past two years. The best among any perimeter player ever.

Anyone that doesn't see LeBron is more valuable to his team is just a victim of Jordan propaganda or a Jordan dicksucker. Take your pick.

he doesn't need to guard them. He can just average 50ppg taking every open jumpshot the Spurs give him.

[K Xerxes]

I'd pick this Lebron over 1998 MJ since he seems to have put his mental issues behind him for the most part, and is one of the two best elimination game performers in history (with Jordan).

Probably not prime Kobe. I just don't think he was ever at 'that' level.

1998 MJ was still a fantastic player though, and I agree he was underrated. At that point, it was becoming arguable that Shaq was the best player in the league, but no one doubts MJ's intangibles. The Bulls team, practically on life support at the time, with Pippen now offensively inept... MJ willed that team to a championship. One of the most remarkable things I've ever seen.

[Smoke117]

I'd pick this Lebron over 1998 MJ since he seems to have put his mental issues behind him for the most part, and is one of the two best elimination game performers in history (with Jordan).

Probably not prime Kobe. I just don't think he was ever at 'that' level.

1998 MJ was still a very very good player. At that point, it was becoming arguable that Shaq was the best player in the league, but no one doubts MJ's intangibles. The Bulls team, practically on life support at the time, with Pippen now offensively inept... MJ willed that team to a championship. One of the most remarkable things I've ever seen.


How was Pippen offensively inept? In the finals he was averaging 20pts in the first four games on good efficiency while playing dominant defense. He was the favorite to win the FMVP that series until he hurt his back in game 5.

[SamuraiSWISH]

LeBron has to be his teams best scorer, rebounder, perimeter defender, post defender, facilitator, ball handler EVERYTHING for his Heat to have a chance at winning against quality teams in the playoffs. He has performed beautifully when facing adversity these past two years. The best among any perimeter player ever.
That's not true, remove LeCock from your mouth.

You're warping the context to prop LeBron up. LeBron headed to Miami and picked Wade and Bosh specifically to play with for a reason. LeBron doesn't have to do all that ... but his game is kind of selfish in a different way, that in order for him to be engaged he has to do all of that or else he stands around and becomes apathetic or un-engaged.

If he could do everything you say, and all he needed was interior defense and rebounding ... he would've stayed in Cleveland, or went to Chicago. He picked Miami because of Wade.

LeBron's off the ball game is atrocious. Let's not act like even hobbled D-Wade wasn't creating plays when given opportunities. And he'd be in even more rhythm to do it if LeBron didn't have to dominate the ball as much. His game demands he do everything. LeBron is so versatile and talented, that he's a jack of all trades, but can't master any thing in particular in order to play a role when needed to allow teammates game's to flourish.

Wade and Bosh aren't Wade and Bosh anymore. By '91, MJ pulled his game back, became a utility man in order to let Pippen grow. And it worked. it seems like for Miami to win, Wade and Bosh had to make a conscious effort to play second fiddle. That's why it's amazing they keep winning, their games (specifically LeBron and Wade) become redundant. They both can't be on the top of their games producing max effort at the same time. They keep winning because they are just so much more talented than the rest of the league.

Stop pretending like Bron is dragging scrubs. Otherwise he wouldn't have shot his legend in the foot by looking like a coward heading to Miami in the first place.

[Soundwave]

What does Jordan do to stop guys like Hibbert/Duncan/Robinson/big men?

Nothing. His team just had better rebounders and interior defenders. See 1995 without Horace Grant/Rodman and look at how Shaq/Horace destroyed them. Bulls didn't win shit when in the same boat as LeBrons Heat.

I don't think anyone has ever argued that these Heat teams are better than the 90s Bulls. These Heat teams are one of the most FLAWED champions of all-time. No other champion has ever had as glaring a weakness in the interior as the Heat.

LeBron has to be his teams best scorer, rebounder, perimeter defender, post defender, facilitator, ball handler EVERYTHING for his Heat to have a chance at winning against quality teams in the playoffs. He has performed beautifully when facing adversity these past two years. The best among any perimeter player ever.

Anyone that doesn't see LeBron is more valuable to his team is just a victim of Jordan propaganda or a Jordan dicksucker. Take your pick.

No one's putting a gun to the head of Spoelstra/LeBron and forcing them not to give Chris Bosh touches down low.

LeBron's playmaking is some what overstated, he needs to dominate the ball to control the game and needs to have other players basically be reduced to spot up shooters if he can't beat his man off the dribble.

The Heat aren't flawed so much as that's just the style of play suited to LeBron.

Wade/Bosh are basically reduced to being spot up shooters in Miami's offense many times. I think the "he makes his teammates better" thing is a bit of a myth honestly, Wade and Bosh have regressed a lot with LeBron.

The Bulls beat several teams with better bigs -- the Knicks, the Magic in '96, the Sonics, Malone and the Jazz twice all the time. The Pistons still had a better front line in '91 too. Yes Orlando was able to exploit them in '95, but they basically made no attempt to replace any of Grant's rebounding that year and Jordan was rusty.

Yes they needed at least one player who could rebound the ball, lol, but that was about it.

[TonyMontana]

That's not true, remove LeCock from your mouth.

You're warping the context to prop LeBron up. LeBron headed to Miami and picked Wade and Bosh specifically to play with for a reason. LeBron doesn't have to do all that ... but his game is kind of selfish in a different way, that in order for him to be engaged he has to do all of that or else he stands around and becomes apathetic or un-engaged.

If he could do everything you say, and all he needed was interior defense and rebounding ... he would've stayed in Cleveland, or went to Chicago. He picked Miami because of Wade.

LeBron's off the ball game is atrocious. Let's not act like even hobbled D-Wade wasn't creating plays when given opportunities. And he'd be in even more rhythm to do it if LeBron didn't have to dominate the ball as much. His game demands he do everything. LeBron is so versatile and talented, that he's a jack of all trades, but can't master any thing in particular in order to play a role when needed to allow teammates game's to flourish.

Wade and Bosh aren't Wade and Bosh anymore. By '91, MJ pulled his game back, became a utility man in order to let Pippen grow. And it worked. it seems like for Miami to win, Wade and Bosh had to make a conscious effort to play second fiddle. That's why it's amazing they keep winning, their games (specifically LeBron and Wade) become redundant. They both can't be on the top of their games producing max effort at the same time. They keep winning because they are just so much more talented than the rest of the league.

Stop pretending like Bron is dragging scrubs. Otherwise he wouldn't have shot his legend in the foot by looking like a coward heading to Miami in the first place.

So...... victim of Jordan propaganda? or Jordan dicksucker?

My money is on the slurpity slurp slurp.

Who was LeBrons best rebounder/interior defender in Cleveland? Drew Gooden? Big Z, the guy who can't even wipe his ass? :oldlol:

Jordan had Pippen an MVP caliber option in a league where no other team had two MVP caliber players, the best rebounder EVER in Rodman, and the best coach EVER. There is absolutely no comparison in the supporting casts.

Miamis advantage over the league is LeBron James and their depth of shooters where a number of guys can step up when the others have cold nights shooting.

Wade and Bosh can step up some nights, but Wades mid range game was on for like two games out of the 20 playoff games. Without Wades mid range game he is a role player which he was for almost all of the playoffs except Game 4 and 7 of the Finals. It's still more than anyone could do in Cleveland though. :oldlol:

Bosh is a big that gets bent over by anyone that plays slightly physical. 0 points in Game 7 for a guy thats strength is his jump shot. Some superstar huh. Give the Heat Rodman instead of Bosh and you'd see some real ****ing shit. 72 wins every year.

[Heavincent]

Jesus Christ, give it a rest RG.

[guy]

Nah, Kukoc was always so inconsistent for my tastes. He'd be on fire for a game or two, and then go MIA for stretches.


Kobe and Lebron fans don't understand that Jordan's supporting casts were getting similar criticisms back then as Lebron's and Kobe's have been over the last few years.

[Soundwave]

So...... victim of Jordan propaganda? or Jordan dicksucker?

My money is on the slurpity slurp slurp.

Who was LeBrons best rebounder/interior defender in Cleveland? Drew Gooden? Big Z, the guy who can't even wipe his ass? :oldlol:

Jordan had Pippen an MVP caliber option in a league where no other team had two MVP caliber players, the best rebounder EVER in Rodman, and the best coach EVER. There is absolutely no comparison in the supporting casts.

Miamis advantage over the league is LeBron James and their depth of shooters where a number of guys can step up when the others have cold nights shooting.

Wade and Bosh can step up some nights, but Wades mid range game was on for like two games out of the 20 playoff games. Without Wades mid range game he is a role player which he was for almost all of the playoffs except Game 4 and 7 of the Finals. It's still more than anyone could do in Cleveland though. :oldlol:

Bosh is a big that gets bent over by anyone that plays slightly physical. 0 points in Game 7 for a guy thats strength is his jump shot. Some superstar huh. Give the Heat Rodman instead of Bosh and you'd see some real ****ing shit. 72 wins every year.

That's LeBron ball though ... basically give him the ball at the top of the key, let him dribble for 10 seconds, then he will try to beat his man off the dribble. If he can't get a shot for himself then he needs basically his teammates to be spot up shooters.

Wade and Bosh are reduced to being spot up shooters in the Miami offense, and it has to be that way IMO, because that's how LeBron likes it. He needs to dominate the basketball.

That's just his game.

[kamil]

Anyone that doesn't see LeBron is more valuable to his team is just a victim of Jordan propaganda or a Jordan dicksucker. Take your pick.

LMFAO! This coming from YOU? Aren't you the same guy that actually believe LeBron* is better than MJ and makes multiple threads about your undying love for him?

[dh144498]

That's LeBron ball though ... basically give him the ball at the top of the key, let him dribble for 10 seconds, then he will try to beat his man off the dribble. If he can't get a shot for himself then he needs basically his teammates to be spot up shooters.

Wade and Bosh are reduced to being spot up shooters in the Miami offense, and it has to be that way IMO, because that's how LeBron likes it. He needs to dominate the basketball.

That's just his game.

:applause:

[madmax]

What does Jordan do to stop guys like Hibbert/Duncan/Robinson/big men?

Nothing. His team just had better rebounders and interior defenders. See 1995 without Horace Grant/Rodman and look at how Shaq/Horace destroyed them. Bulls didn't win shit when in the same boat as LeBrons Heat.

I don't think anyone has ever argued that these Heat teams are better than the 90s Bulls. These Heat teams are one of the most FLAWED champions of all-time. No other champion has ever had as glaring a weakness in the interior as the Heat.

LeBron has to be his teams best scorer, rebounder, perimeter defender, post defender, facilitator, ball handler EVERYTHING for his Heat to have a chance at winning against quality teams in the playoffs. He has performed beautifully when facing adversity these past two years. The best among any perimeter player ever.

Anyone that doesn't see LeBron is more valuable to his team is just a victim of Jordan propaganda or a Jordan dicksucker. Take your pick.

this:applause:
Lebron literally has to do everything for his team to have a shot at the title, while Jordan only had to score and take advantage of having the most stacked team in the 90's. Dude was replaced by a D-league player in 94 and Bulls still nearly went to the Finals:lol Talk about a diluted era and weak competition. Can anyone imagine Heat even sniffing East finals with some D-league scrub in the place of Bron? Yeah, I thought so...

[TonyMontana]

That's LeBron ball though ... basically give him the ball at the top of the key, let him dribble for 10 seconds, then he will try to beat his man off the dribble. If he can't get a shot for himself then he needs basically his teammates to be spot up shooters.

Wade and Bosh are reduced to being spot up shooters in the Miami offense, and it has to be that way IMO, because that's how LeBron likes it. He needs to dominate the basketball.

That's just his game.

So LeBron is the reason Wades mid range game is pathetic for 95% of the games now?

Not sure if you know, but it used to be money. LeBron being on the court the same time has no bearing on that going in or not. If anything it helps him since teams are more willing to pack the paint.

The Heat struggle when Wade can't make that shot, and when a 6'3 guard can't shoot it makes it easier to clog the paint. Spoelstra has adjusted to this by only playing one big(Bosh or Birdman) and putting LeBron at the 4. With the additional shooter instead of Haslem or another big it spreads the floor and gives everyone more room.

And LeBron is the reason Bosh averaged 4 rebounds per game against Indiana?

For Bosh the Heat are at their best when he is playing inside( on both ends of the floor), being a shot blocker, and eating up boards. His problem is he only plays that way 20% of the time and the other 80% he is getting pushed around and shooting long two pointers. His performance in Game 4 was even more important than Wades because he was playing BIG and INSIDE.


this:applause:
Lebron literally has to do everything for his team to have a shot at the title, while Jordan only had to score and take advantage of having the most stacked team in the 90's. Dude was replaced by a D-league player in 94 and Bulls still nearly went to the Finals:lol Talk about a diluted era and weak competition. Can anyone imagine Heat even sniffing East finals with some D-league scrub in the place of Bron? Yeah, I thought so...

:applause: :applause:

[Soundwave]

So LeBron is the reason Wades mid range game is pathetic for 95% of the games now?

Not sure if you know, but it used to be money. LeBron being on the court the same time has no bearing on that going in or not. If anything it helps him since teams are more willing to pack the paint.

The Heat struggle when Wade can't make that shot, and when a 6'3 guard can't shoot it makes it easier to clog the paint. Spoelstra has adjusted to this by only playing one big(Bosh or Birdman) and putting LeBron at the 4. With the additional shooter instead of Haslem or another big it spreads the floor and gives everyone more room.

And LeBron is the reason Bosh averaged 4 rebounds per game against Indiana?

For Bosh the Heat are at their best when he is playing inside( on both ends of the floor), being a shot blocker, and eating up boards. His problem is he only plays that way 20% of the time and the other 80% he is getting pushed around and shooting long two pointers. His performance in Game 4 was even more important than Wades because he was playing BIG and INSIDE.



:applause: :applause:

I used to think LeBron's game would change in Miami now that he had talent around him, but he basically does play the same style as he did in Cleveland and that reduces the other players to being spot up shooters basically.

Miami is just more talented overall than the Cavs were, that allows them to eek out playoff round wins. Also as Boston has gotten older, they became less of a problem for LeBron.

Bosh/Wade just aren't good at being spot up shooters, that's why the Heat are "flawed". All three of LeBron/Bosh/Wade kinda zone out if they're not given enough offensive touches.

I guess that's the byproduct of them all being no.1 options in the past.

The Heat aren't really a great team in the sense that they don't play that great off each other, I sense less overall team work from them than even the Shaq/Kobe Lakers.

[caliman]

LeBron*? dude is purposely left wide open cuz he doesnt have a jumpshot... IN THE FINALS.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm


That should always shut down any MJ/LeBron comparisons. No way was any team thinking that its probably a good defensive tactic to sag 10 feet off of MJ. And for the majority of the series it worked against LeBron.

Credit to LeBron that he finally figured out where he can be effective against the Spurs, but MJ comparisons should only start when he's in his mid 30's, still the best player in the league, and still leading his broken down team to titles.

[97 bulls]

Would you shut the **** up about Scottie Pippen? I've never made a thread on him and haven't really cared to post much of anything in threads about him in over a year. You're a ****ing Jordan stan who needs to stfu.***

Thank you. Hes a "Bulls fan" who goes out of his way to defame what the Bulls did. Its pathetic. Whats worse is he makes a degrading comment about Pippen every friggn day.

[kamil]

Kobe and Lebron fans don't understand that Jordan's supporting casts were getting similar criticisms back then as Lebron's and Kobe's have been over the last few years.

I'm having doubts that they even followed the NBA back then... let alone even having been born yet. Its like these kids were born yesterday.

[MaxFly]

LeBron and Jordan bring different things to the table... but let's be real... the Spurs sagged off of LeBron quite a bit in this year's finals... You would never see that with Jordan.

Ultimately, I would still take this year's LeBron over '98 Jordan based on their overall games at that point.

[Myth]

I think 2012 LeBron and 2013 Ray Allen proved they have enough mental strenght.

Fixed.

[Derivative]

Jordan's 1998 season is the greatest season ever, not in terms of absolute dominance. But in terms of what he achieved despite age, injurys, etc.

[Calabis]

Ok let's get this over with, second three peat Jordan...., Lebron has more impact on a overrall game than that version of Jordan.

But prime Jordan is a different animal.

Also can anyone tell me the last time the Star of their team was allowed to shoot wide open J's as a defensive strategy? Dude is in the NBA, if he can't hit wide open practice/warm up jumpers, he wouldn't be in the league.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan's 1998 season is the greatest season ever, not in terms of absolute dominance. But in terms of what he achieved despite age, injurys, etc.
Exactly. More a testament to intangibles, and psychology. Many things that LeBron stans just simply want to act like they don't exist.

Heart, intelligence, determination, sheer force of will. Young in experienced fans will not understand what you're saying here.

God had essentially stripped MJ of many of his natural physical gifts those last 2 years in '97 and '98. Even more so in '98. Floor Jordan, cause his hops had disappeared that year ... yet he still found a way to defend the throne and will his team to victory through mental toughness, heart, and basketball skill.

[bond10]

What does Jordan do to stop guys like Hibbert/Duncan/Robinson/big men?

Nothing. His team just had better rebounders and interior defenders. See 1995 without Horace Grant/Rodman and look at how Shaq/Horace destroyed them. Bulls didn't win shit when in the same boat as LeBrons Heat.

I don't think anyone has ever argued that these Heat teams are better than the 90s Bulls. These Heat teams are one of the most FLAWED champions of all-time. No other champion has ever had as glaring a weakness in the interior as the Heat.

LeBron has to be his teams best scorer, rebounder, perimeter defender, post defender, facilitator, ball handler EVERYTHING for his Heat to have a chance at winning against quality teams in the playoffs. He has performed beautifully when facing adversity these past two years. The best among any perimeter player ever.

Anyone that doesn't see LeBron is more valuable to his team is just a victim of Jordan propaganda or a Jordan dicksucker. Take your pick.

There are so many things wrong with your post, I'm embrassed to even read this crap. :facepalm

[bond10]

So...... victim of Jordan propaganda? or Jordan dicksucker?

My money is on the slurpity slurp slurp.

Who was LeBrons best rebounder/interior defender in Cleveland? Drew Gooden? Big Z, the guy who can't even wipe his ass? :oldlol:

Jordan had Pippen an MVP caliber option in a league where no other team had two MVP caliber players, the best rebounder EVER in Rodman, and the best coach EVER. There is absolutely no comparison in the supporting casts.

Miamis advantage over the league is LeBron James and their depth of shooters where a number of guys can step up when the others have cold nights shooting.

Wade and Bosh can step up some nights, but Wades mid range game was on for like two games out of the 20 playoff games. Without Wades mid range game he is a role player which he was for almost all of the playoffs except Game 4 and 7 of the Finals. It's still more than anyone could do in Cleveland though. :oldlol:

Bosh is a big that gets bent over by anyone that plays slightly physical. 0 points in Game 7 for a guy thats strength is his jump shot. Some superstar huh. Give the Heat Rodman instead of Bosh and you'd see some real ****ing shit. 72 wins every year.

Oh god, I can't believe I read another one of these. Again, so many things wrong here. Get off that ESPN hype machine.

[Duncan21formvp]

It was probably my favorite season from MJ.

[diamenz]

jordan's mental prime was 98 for sure. those who did watch him know how he evolutionized his game in even just those few years from 95-98. his offensive approach was different every year! tonymontana couldn't tell you anything about that though.

[poido123]

The "Jordan rules" were in full effect in 98. How is it that a 34 year old Jordan takes more ft's (8.8) than he has since the 1989 season (9.8) when he was 25? He was attacking the rim less and less as he got older...yet somehow he averages the most ft's since about 10 years ago? You couldn't even breathe on him in 98.

You don't think he was able to work out how to draw contact more effectively as he got older?

Sure, his status and godlike awe he had, certainly got him a few calls by the refs as the years went by. Going by what you're implying, Jordan was carried by refs in 1998 :biggums: If you dislike him fine, but Jordan was crazy good, unlike these fake stars we have going ATM.

[poido123]

this:applause:
Lebron literally has to do everything for his team to have a shot at the title, while Jordan only had to score and take advantage of having the most stacked team in the 90's. Dude was replaced by a D-league player in 94 and Bulls still nearly went to the Finals:lol Talk about a diluted era and weak competition. Can anyone imagine Heat even sniffing East finals with some D-league scrub in the place of Bron? Yeah, I thought so...


That "stacked" 90's team were comparable to the Heat now, only that Jordan and co. were going up against Hall of Famers on a nightly basis and actually HAD competition in the East for pathway to Finals. Heat have a stacked team relative to their competition and have been in a weak East that have been riddled with injuries.

Furthermore, your "amazing" Lebron was about to be left out to dry, had it not been for Ray Allen's historic 3 point shot to save Lebron's ass from scrutiny. None of you fanboys would be saying a word about how great Lebron is, if Spurs had won game 6.

You can cut that shit out about weak 90's era you fckn retarded Lebron stan.

The 90's were flooded with Hall of Famers and great players. This era is weak.

Let's see,

Penny, Zo, Shaq, Mutumbo, Barkley, D-Rob, Duncan, Dirk, Nash, Kidd, Ewing, Rice, Richmond, Kobe, Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Iverson, Carter, McGrady, Sprewell, Cassell, Olajuwon, KG, Payton, older Magic and the list goes on and on.

Alot of these guys were in their prime or younger, and most of them were hall of famers and guys who are now in the top 20 of alltime.

While Lebron is cakewalking through an injury riddled Eastern Conference consisting of the "mighty Bucks" , the crippled Bulls and the Pacers led by a mighty George, perhaps that is where you should be looking when you're talking about weak era and weak competition.

GTFO with your nonsense and take Tanya Montana with you.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

In 98', Mike was more a jump shooter (back the basket / fadeaway, etc), so guys like Stockton and Payton, who regularly defended MJ, could NOT check him....at all. That fadeaway was practically impossible to block AND when he had good post position? Forget about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2sqyn3SCJs
Look at his turn around jumper at 7:13. Gary simply couldn't guard Mike when he had his back to the basket.

But yeah, I do think that season gets overlooked. Not just because of HIS injuries, but Scottie's too. Pippen missed damn near half the season, yet MJ and Chicago STILL had the best record in the East.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Some postseason highlights too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zurtZK1iAH8 -- dat artistry :eek:

[diamenz]

dat artistry :eek:

every move was on point - from the footwork to the decision making. artistry and grace is something lebron will never have.

[Vragrant]

62 wins, titles, MVP, FMVP, consensus best player in the NBA. He averaged 28, 5 and 3. But he was much better than his numbers. Everyone feared him and he did everything needed to win.

Look at what he did to the Spurs (basically the team that won it all in 99) with a near prime Robinson (21, 10, 2) and a rookie Tim Duncan (averaged 21, 11,2 - no question better than this years version of Duncan).

Does anybody seriously believe those Bulls would not have finished the 2013 Spurs in less than 7 games?

If Hibbert did that to the heat, the 1998 Spurs with Robinson and Duncan could sweep them.

Anyway, MJ in action against the Spurs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQePkBnD0vo
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199803140SAS.html

MJ, GOAT. :bowdown: :bowdown:

Call me insane, but I would not trade (for just that season) MJ for current Lebron or prime Kobe. Lebron and prime Kobe might have been better players than a 35 year old Jordan, but I don't think they would have the mental strengh and the aura of invincibilityto lead those Bulls to a title.

EDIT: Instead of most, read "by some".

Amazing vid, so much skill.

Also, its amazing how quick of the floor he was. I don't know if anybody watch the complete vid but look at 3:20 when he outjumps David Robinson on a jump ball clearly.

That hanging jumper @ the 1:40 mark:biggums:

[lakers_forever]

Exactly. More a testament to intangibles, and psychology. Many things that LeBron stans just simply want to act like they don't exist.

Heart, intelligence, determination, sheer force of will. Young in experienced fans will not understand what you're saying here.

God had essentially stripped MJ of many of his natural physical gifts those last 2 years in '97 and '98. Even more so in '98. Floor Jordan, cause his hops had disappeared that year ... yet he still found a way to defend the throne and will his team to victory through mental toughness, heart, and basketball skill.

:applause: Also everyone was scared to death of MJ (people talk of his will to win and killing instinct like he was a murderer, a psychopath) I don't see that with Lebron. Don't get me wrong, Lebron is the best player in the NBA today, an all time great, a true legend of the game. But it's a different. There's no way in hell a player Jason Terry would have the balls to call out MJ in the finals like he did with Lebron. And if he did, he would be badly dominated and ended up embarrased.


Some postseason highlights too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zurtZK1iAH8 -- dat artistry :eek:

:bowdown:

[aceman]

jordan shot poorly throughout the 1998 playoffs. without the support of a great defensive unit the bulls don't win.

[aceman]

Pippen was a shell of himself in the playoffs offensively for the entire 2nd three-peat.

People want to complain about Wade's nagging injuries in 2012 and 2013, his offensive numbers were much more appealing than what Pip brought to that table on offense. And Wade's still had some major games where he took over and won contests in both the 2012 and 2013 playoffs / Finals.

And even though Pippen was clearly the better defender, the difference between Pippen and Wade's defense is closer than Pippen's abilities and production on offense compared to Wade.

MJ's '98 is very slept on. He had no business being the best player in the league, or the MVP. Had a damn near cut off finger due to a cigar accident after the last championship, a messed up shooting wrist all season, and he dragged the Bulls with no Pippen for half the season, a Rodman that wasn't as focused as seasons prior, with Jason Caffey being arguably the Bulls 2nd best player until Pippen came back.

He was amazing, all season. 35 years old, you shouldn't be willing your team to championships. That's MAJOR heart right there.

pippen's defense won matches in the 1998 playoffs.

[lakers_forever]

jordan shot poorly throughout the 1998 playoffs. without the support of a great defensive unit the bulls don't win.

What? He shot at 462%. Better than what he did in 96 and 97.

[Smoke117]

pippen's defense won matches in the 1998 playoffs.

You are confused...don't you know defense means nothing?! This is Michael Jordan were talking about! Forget that Scottie Pippen was the favorite for the FMVP through the first four games of the 98 finals when the Bulls were 3-1 until he hurt is back in game 5 and the Jazz won.

[Magic 32]

That's not true, remove LeCock from your mouth.

You're warping the context to prop LeBron up. LeBron headed to Miami and picked Wade and Bosh specifically to play with for a reason. LeBron doesn't have to do all that ... but his game is kind of selfish in a different way, that in order for him to be engaged he has to do all of that or else he stands around and becomes apathetic or un-engaged.

If he could do everything you say, and all he needed was interior defense and rebounding ... he would've stayed in Cleveland, or went to Chicago. He picked Miami because of Wade.

LeBron's off the ball game is atrocious. Let's not act like even hobbled D-Wade wasn't creating plays when given opportunities. And he'd be in even more rhythm to do it if LeBron didn't have to dominate the ball as much. His game demands he do everything. LeBron is so versatile and talented, that he's a jack of all trades, but can't master any thing in particular in order to play a role when needed to allow teammates game's to flourish.

Wade and Bosh aren't Wade and Bosh anymore. By '91, MJ pulled his game back, became a utility man in order to let Pippen grow. And it worked. it seems like for Miami to win, Wade and Bosh had to make a conscious effort to play second fiddle. That's why it's amazing they keep winning, their games (specifically LeBron and Wade) become redundant. They both can't be on the top of their games producing max effort at the same time. They keep winning because they are just so much more talented than the rest of the league.

Stop pretending like Bron is dragging scrubs. Otherwise he wouldn't have shot his legend in the foot by looking like a coward heading to Miami in the first place.

Brilliant post :applause: :applause: :applause:

TonyMontana and madmax just got annihilated.

Lebron is the Tom Cruise of basketball stars. He has to dominate the action in order to be great. He can't scale back his play or operate like a surgeon like Jordan and Kobe did in the triangle.

Look at his best games. They were never turn on/turn off games. He has to dominate everything. Great when it works, but it often collapses.

[andgar923]

I made a thread comparing Kobe to Mj. And I chose the 98 season for a reason.

It is the ONLY season that any player today comes close, and that's mostly due to Mj's athletic deterioration.

But MJ was miles ahead of anybody today mentally.

Whatever he lacked in athleticism he more than made up with his mind. In the vid the OP posted he split many possible double and triple teams and he avoided some that could've turned into them if he held the ball a second longer. But like he mentioned, 'mentally' he can kick their asses.

Kobe is the closest as far as actual skills: Technique

His technique is where Kobe is eerily reminiscent of MJ at times. The difference? Mj is more consistent and smarter. Not only is he slightly better technically speaking, he's clearly better at applying said technique. Paul Pierce comes in 2nd behind Kobe imo. Pierce like Kobe, has great balance, footowork and knows how to set up his shot and create for himself.

And even tho his athleticism faded in 98, it was by no means completely gone. We still saw some explosiveness on a consistent basis. We saw the first step he was feared for, the explosive quick jumping that caught big men off guard. It wasn't that big men weren't in the paint or didn't want to challenge MJ. He was simply too fast for them to attempt. He got them out of position many times, and when they did challenge, he just swiveled his way in mid air like he did vs Duncan in the video.

MJ in unparalleled

I wouldn't take any version of Kobe or Bron.

Although Kobe is the closest skills wise, he's simply too dumb, I don't trust him. Would you trust him with your life? honest question

[AintNoSunshine]

Call me insane, but I would not trade (for just that season) MJ for current Lebron or prime Kobe. Lebron and prime Kobe might have been better players than a 35 year old Jordan, but I don't think they would have the mental strengh and the aura of invincibilityto lead those Bulls to a title.

EDIT: Instead of most, read "by some".

Lets just say MJ and Lebron is better for their own respective teams because their teams needs were different. 98 MJ wouldnt work as well in Lebrons place.

Kobe tho I agree youre better off with MJ because their game is similar but MJ was just better

[TheMan]

What does Jordan do to stop guys like Hibbert/Duncan/Robinson/big men?

Nothing. His team just had better rebounders and interior defenders. See 1995 without Horace Grant/Rodman and look at how Shaq/Horace destroyed them. Bulls didn't win shit when in the same boat as LeBrons Heat.

I don't think anyone has ever argued that these Heat teams are better than the 90s Bulls. These Heat teams are one of the most FLAWED champions of all-time. No other champion has ever had as glaring a weakness in the interior as the Heat.

LeBron has to be his teams best scorer, rebounder, perimeter defender, post defender, facilitator, ball handler EVERYTHING for his Heat to have a chance at winning against quality teams in the playoffs. He has performed beautifully when facing adversity these past two years. The best among any perimeter player ever.

Anyone that doesn't see LeBron is more valuable to his team is just a victim of Jordan propaganda or a Jordan dicksucker. Take your pick.
You a salty fa.ggot:oldlol:

[Nevaeh]

It was probably my favorite season from MJ.

Same for me. The 97-98 season was the first season where it didn't feel like he had a "cheat code" turned on, and basically had to rely on all of his basketball savvy accumulated over the years, now that Father Time was knocking on the door, and younger players were gunning for him.

This was also the season where he played the most like a "TEAM PLAYER" (yes, even more than his Wizards years), and finally had to trust guys more out of necessity, not so much because he liked it. But in the end it worked out for everybody, with Jordan still proving, even if you're old and slow (which this team was by the end of the season), you can still win on heart if you want it (Championship) bad enough.

[Soundwave]

You are confused...don't you know defense means nothing?! This is Michael Jordan were talking about! Forget that Scottie Pippen was the favorite for the FMVP through the first four games of the 98 finals when the Bulls were 3-1 until he hurt is back in game 5 and the Jazz won.

Good thing for the Bulls they had the best closer in the biz. They don't give out championships for 3 wins in a Finals series last time I checked.

I think his game 6 performance in '98 is possibly the greatest close out performance by any player in NBA history. You can't even write it any better than that if it was a movie.

[RRR3]

Brilliant post :applause: :applause: :applause:

TonyMontana and madmax just got annihilated.

Lebron is the Tom Cruise of basketball stars. He has to dominate the action in order to be great. He can't scale back his play or operate like a surgeon like Jordan and Kobe did in the triangle.

Look at his best games. They were never turn on/turn off games. He has to dominate everything. Great when it works, but it often collapses.
Kobe turned Nash into a spot up shooter you tard.

[Magic 32]

Kobe turned Nash into a spot up shooter you tard.

Is that the Nash with 1 or 1,5 legs?

Anyway, you know we are speaking the truth.

[TheMan]

jordan is overrated as fk on here
Another kid who never saw prime Jordan or else you wouldn't say retarded shit.

[D-Wade316]

I said it on another thread, 98 Jordan is better than peak or prime Kobe. 86, 95, and Wizards are the only years of Jordan I wouldn't take over peak or prime Kobe.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Not sure about '98 Jordan being better than peak Kobe, but he's definitely underrated, mostly because at first glance his stats (particularly efficiency) don't look too impressive. But you need to keep in mind that he cracked a knuckle and tore a ligament on the index finger of his shooting hand in preseason, and needed some time to adjust his form and his game to accommodate the injury. Look at the noticeable difference once he acclimated himself to the injury (the FT% for a career 84% FT shooter is clearly telling):

First 15 games: 27.5 pts/42.5% FG/71% FT/48% TS

Last 67 games: 29.0 ppg/48% FG/80% FT/55% TS

It's pretty clear that he would have posted close to the latter numbers for the entire season had he not injured his hand, which also would have brought his PER up from 25.2 (still great) to the 27-28 range. Especially when you consider that he then went on to average 32/6/4/48% FG/56% TS in the playoffs up until the Finals. At age 35. He also had tremendous defensive impact (see: the 1998 ECF vs. Indiana). And he did this with Pippen missing half the season and being the sole focus of the defense again for the first time since 1990. 1998 Jordan was still a beast.

[Carbine]

Anyone with a brain and no bias understands how inaccurate it is to say '98 MJ is better than Peak Kobe, or peak LeBron.

By the way most of the posters in here talk, he was god.

-Shot 24 percent on 3's
-3.5 assists per game
-.533 TS%

MJ is my favorite player of all time, but there's no freaking way he's just better than peak Kobe, and especially LeBron. You have to be a serious MJ slurper or just dumb to really believe that.

[andgar923]

Anyone with a brain and no bias understands how inaccurate it is to say '98 MJ is better than Peak Kobe, or peak LeBron.

By the way most of the posters in here talk, he was god.

-Shot 24 percent on 3's
-3.5 assists per game
-.533 TS%

MJ is my favorite player of all time, but there's no freaking way he's just better than peak Kobe, and especially LeBron. You have to be a serious MJ slurper or just dumb to really believe that.

So if your life is on the line who are you betting on?

A streaky ill advised stubborn inconsistent Kobe?

Bron who is constantly searching for an identity and will probably show up from time to time?

or MJ?

Don't concentrate too much on the numbers.

[Magic 32]

Anyone with a brain and no bias understands how inaccurate it is to say '98 MJ is better than Peak Kobe, or peak LeBron.


Well, we will never know, because 06 Kobe was forced to play video game basketball on a crappy team.

Imagine if the energy he used for 35 5 5 could have been spread to other areas of his game (better fg, lockdown defence, playoff scoring).

Look at Lebron. He used his superior team to inflate and protect his FG% all year. What could peak Kobe have done with a team like that. :eek:

[fpliii]

Just a comment...

MJ's mental fortitude was incredible that season. He willed a team to a championship, that probably shouldn't have won given the circumstances (injuries, etc.).

That being said, I think this comparison is unfair to MJ himself. While that season may not be appreciated as much as it should, Jordan's level of play was down from the previous two seasons, and he definitely wasn't close to what he was from say 88-93 (particularly defensively). So while it was a great run, I think we're doing him a disservice given his lofty standards.

[SpecialQue]

Yeah, if there's one player who's constantly underrated by fans, it's Michael Jordan.

:facepalm

[inclinerator]

regular season

[Doranku]

Good thing for the Bulls they had the best closer in the biz. They don't give out championships for 3 wins in a Finals series last time I checked.

I think his game 6 performance in '98 is possibly the greatest close out performance by any player in NBA history. You can't even write it any better than that if it was a movie.
:biggums:

He took more shots than the rest of the team combined, missed 20 of them, and had a whopping 1 rebound and 1 assist.

[Soundwave]

:biggums:

He took more shots than the rest of the team combined, missed 20 of them, and had a whopping 1 rebound and 1 assist.

No one else on his team was hitting sh*t lol, Pippen could barely even walk straight after game 4 or 5.

With the game in the balance he basically tipped the scales on his own, making a great defensive play on Malone to seal it to boot.

Scottie Pippen never shot over 42% in the playoffs in the second threepeat, a lot of the pressure to score and make big shots was disproportionately put on Jordan in the playoffs.

[97 bulls]

No one else on his team was hitting sh*t lol, Pippen could barely even walk straight after game 4 or 5.

With the game in the balance he basically tipped the scales on his own, making a great defensive play on Malone to seal it to boot.

Scottie Pippen never shot over 42% in the playoffs in the second threepeat, a lot of the pressure to score and make big shots was disproportionately put on Jordan in the playoffs.
Stop lying. In that game 6, Kukoc was 7/14, Pippen was 5/7 and hit a couple huge buckets down the stretch, Harper was 3/4, Rodman was 3/3. Why must you and people like continue to act as if Jordan had no help during his runs? Its a shame


And Pippen cant get a break when it comes to people like you. The man was chastised for missing that game in 1990 vs the Pistons, and chastised for playing hurt during the second threepeat.

Not to mention Pippen took a lot of threes during the second threepeat. Thats why his FG% was so low. He did lead the playoffs in defensive rating in 96, and was I believe third in 98.

[Soundwave]

Stop lying. In that game 6, Kukoc was 7/14, Pippen was 5/7 and hit a couple huge buckets down the stretch, Harper was 3/4, Rodman was 3/3. Why must you and people like continue to act as if Jordan had no help during his runs? Its a shame


And Pippen cant get a break when it comes to people like you. The man was. Chastised for missing that game in 1990 vs the Pistons, and chastised for playing hurt during the second threepeat.

Not to mention Pippen took a lot of threes during the second threepeat. Thats why his FG% was so low. He did lead the playoffs in defensive rating in 96, and was I believe third in 98.

The Bulls were in big, big trouble in that game six, if they do not get bailed out by Jordan like that, they probably could have lost game 7, as Pippen did not look like he was in good shape and Kukoc was never all that reliable.

The rest of the team couldn't score for sh*t unless it was Kerr and some open 3s.

Down the stretch of that game 6, the Bulls went completely cold. To me it's the most impressive of Jordan's playoff performances, even if it statistically doesn't read as so, because I think he had to dig the deepest to pull that one out. At some point it's pretty much just sheer will.

It's like a boxing match, at some point, technique goes out of the window, and it's just two guys beating the crap out of each other, and who wants it more, who refuses to go down. That Jazz series had become a full on war by the end.

He had help of course, but the way the Bulls were built also often required Jordan to shoulder a disportionate amount of the load, it's not like the Bulls ever had like Chris Bosh who could drop 20 on any given night, they just opted to waste his offensive ability and reduce him to a spot up shooter.

The Bulls basically had to max out the ability of their roster and Jordan sometimes had to carry a unbelievably taxing amount of the offensive load and big shot making.

[Doctor Rivers]

So if your life is on the line who are you betting on?

A streaky ill advised stubborn inconsistent Kobe?

Bron who is constantly searching for an identity and will probably show up from time to time?

or MJ?

Don't concentrate too much on the numbers.

LeBron = greatest finals game 7 of all time

[secund2nun]

No version of MJ is underrated, especially 1998 Jordan. We have people who actually believe rookie MJ was better than current Lebron :roll:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Stop lying. In that game 6, Kukoc was 7/14, Pippen was 5/7 and hit a couple huge buckets down the stretch

Pippen was 4-7 from the field for 8 points in the game, not 5-7. And lol @ "a couple of huge buckets down the stretch." You might want to actually watch the game: he had only one basket the entire 4th quarter, at the 8:00 mark. One basket, not a couple. And 8:00 left is hardly down the stretch of a game.

[97 bulls]

The Bulls were in big, big trouble in that game six, if they do not get bailed out by Jordan like that, they probably could have lost game 7, as Pippen did not look like he was in good shape and Kukoc was never all that reliable.*

Lol....... Bailed out? He shot the worse out if the whole team. The ending was incredible. Greatest ending ever. In all sports. You couldnt have written a better ending. But the team kept them in it.




He had help of course, but the way the Bulls were built also often required Jordan to shoulder a disportionate amount of the load, it's not like the Bulls ever had like Chris Bosh who could drop 20 on any given night, they just opted to waste his offensive ability and reduce him to a spot up shooter.*The Bulls basically had to max out the ability of their roster and Jordan sometimes had to carry a unbelievably taxing amount of the offensive load and big shot making.]
Oh my god just stop. The bottom line is Wins. And the Bulls were a 55 team capable of making the finals without Jordan.

Toni Kukoc as the leader of that 99 Bulls squad netted basically the same amount of wins as Chris Bosh did in his time with Raptors. And that on a team that was intentionally trying to tank. Dennis Rodman dominated a 64 win Sonics team in the finals. And is credited with two wins alone by George Karl. And Luc Longley played extremely well in the 96 Finals.

Im about results. The Bulls players were extremely successful outside of Jordan.

[97 bulls]

Pippen was 4-7 from the field for 8 points in the game, not 5-7. And lol @ "a couple of huge buckets down the stretch." You might want to actually watch the game: he had only one basket the entire 4th quarter, at the 8:00 mark. One basket, not a couple. And 8:00 left is hardly down the stretch of a game.
Lol. Semantics. Had he not played, you'd be attacking him for that.

[Soundwave]

Lol....... Bailed out? He shot the worse out if the whole team. The ending was incredible. Greatest ending ever. In all sports. You couldnt have written a better ending. But the team kept them in it.




Oh my god just stop. The bottom line is Wins. And the Bulls were a 55 team capable of making the finals without Jordan.

Toni Kukoc as the leader of that 99 Bulls squad netted basically the same amount of wins as Chris Bosh did in his time with Raptors. And that on a team that was intentionally trying to tank. Dennis Rodman dominated a 64 win Sonics team in the finals. And is credited with two wins alone by George Karl. And Luc Longley played extremely well in the 96 Finals.

Im about results. The Bulls players were extremely successful outside of Jordan.

They won ONE playoff round without Jordan, period. If you're really about the bottom line, there it is.

Pippen won nothing with Olajuwon and Barkley (eliminated in round 1) and was the team leader of the Blazers in 2000 that had one of the most epic playoff collapses in NBA history.

Rodman had a good 96 Finals, but Kemp also posterized him more than a few times and started to bust loose by about game 3 or 4. I loved Rodman, but he was far from the ideal PF, incredible rebounder and defender, but a liability on offense without question and had a habit of zoning out for stretches.

Chris Bosh is a far better player than Toni Kukoc ever was.

The Bulls were gassed as a team by game six, Bob Costas was practically giddy with anticipation about writing their obituary.

[juju151111]

Lol. Semantics. Had he not played, you'd be attacking him for that.
You tried to claim pip made baskets down the stretch when the bulls were losing and he didn't.