Gasol playoff record without kobe:

[Mr. Jabbar]

0-17, and counting

:lol

[Electric Slide]

About as funny as how many playoff series Kobe has won without a dominant big man.

[avonbarksdale]

About as funny as how many playoff series Kobe has won without a dominant big man.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w62/Suprchrg96/Fisher-Kobe5Rings.jpg

[Mr. Jabbar]

About as funny as how many playoff series Kobe has won without a dominant big man.

yeah, a dominant 0-17 big man :oldlol:

[Nick Young]

About as funny as how many playoff series Kobe has won without a dominant big man.
About as funny as anyone referring to Gasol as dominant:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: You serious bruh? Is Jeff Green dominant too?:roll:

[Magic 32]

About as funny as how many playoff series Kobe has won without a dominant big man.

Thats the reality of playing in the west.

Arenas, Iverson, Carter, T-mac, Lebron......... did it in the east. Can't do it in the west. Can't be done.

[Fox]

Kobrick rings without dominant big man: 0

:roll:

[Johnny Jones]

Kobrick rings without dominant big man: 0

:roll:
:facepalm

[Mr. Jabbar]

Kobrick rings without dominant big man: 0

:roll:

lol haters reaching far, thread triggered damage-control :oldlol:

lequit rings w/o unprecedented stacked team able to win w/o him = 0

[Kiddlovesnets]

Kobrick rings without dominant big man: 0

:roll:

true, lets not forget how Shaq carried an entire team by himself, the other players were all role players or nonfactors.
:D

[G-Funk]

About as funny as how many playoff series Kobe has won without a dominant big man.


3 Finals, 2 Championships without a dominant big!:facepalm

[G-Funk]

Kobrick rings without dominant big man: 0

:roll:
:roll::oldlol: :roll: :roll: :roll: AT this ***** referring that Gasol is dominant! :facepalm

[MAC system]

Why is pau so disrespected on here? Not dominant? He was arguably the best big in the game during the three finals trips. He was definitely thebest offensive big in the game. Why does he get no love ever from laker fans?

[Nick Young]

Why is pau so disrespected on here? Not dominant? He was arguably the best big in the game during the three finals trips. He was definitely thebest offensive big in the game. Why does he get no love ever from laker fans?
best offensive bigman in the game=0-17 in the playoffs without Kobe?:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[Shepseskaf]

Why is pau so disrespected on here? Not dominant? He was arguably the best big in the game during the three finals trips. He was definitely thebest offensive big in the game. Why does he get no love ever from laker fans?
I never understood this. Gasol probably can't wait for a trade out of LA.

[chazzy]

Not even true

[Nick Young]

I never understood this. Gasol probably can't wait for a trade out of LA.
cus he's soft as shit and unreliable, unlike Fisher, Ariza, guys without as much talent but you know you can count on when things get tough.

[tazb]

Kobe's playoff record without Phil Jackson: 0-2395923

[Mr. Jabbar]

0-17 guys, 0 fkn 17, thats too large of a sample, gasol was good in those 2 chip runs no1 denies it, but kobe haters want to prop him as finals mvp. hes a serviceable big man with zero alpha genes.

[The-Legend-24]

Damn, that's fvcking crazy. :oldlol:

[Fox]

lol haters reaching far, thread triggered damage-control :oldlol:

lequit rings w/o unprecedented stacked team able to win w/o him = 0
I'm not a LeBron fan. Jokes on you :banana: But since you mentioned him

LeBron took a worse Cleveland team to the Finals, Kobrick got YET ANOTHER big man in Howard in a self-proclaimed stacked team (YES; you Lakers fan hyped this team saying they'd easily go the Finals etc) and can only manage to get a 7th seed! LOL @ that!

Kobrick rings without big man: 0. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[FiveRings]

0-17, and counting

:lol
How are you gonna do my favourite player Pau like that? Pau was my second favourite player but since Kobe may never play again Pau is now #1. He hasn't played so well the past couple years, but I'm going to stay a loyal Pau fan.

Pau has had a nice career. Three Finals and two titles. But dominant? Let's not get carried away here. Lebron is winning rings with the equivalent of Pau on the Heat as his third option.

[Mr. Jabbar]

I'm not a LeBron fan. Jokes on you :banana: But since you mentioned him

LeBron took a worse Cleveland team to the Finals, Kobrick got YET ANOTHER big man in Howard in a selfclaimeds stacked team (YES; you Lakers fan hyped this team saying they'd easily go the Finals etc) and can only manage to get a 7th seed! LOL at that!

Kobrick rings without big man: 0. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Lol spare me the "im not a lebron fan" crap :facepalm , stepped on the stick right away, prolly one of pauk's apr 2013 class gimmicks or one of the vintage haters...

Lequit finals record before teamming up with competition: 0-4

Lequit Record on finals with stacked team: cost em 1 ring, carried by refs on another one

[joeysms55]

0-1 in a Lakers uniform

[Nick Young]

I'm not a LeBron fan. Jokes on you :banana: But since you mentioned him

LeBron took a worse Cleveland team to the Finals, Kobrick got YET ANOTHER big man in Howard in a self-proclaimed stacked team (YES; you Lakers fan hyped this team saying they'd easily go the Finals etc) and can only manage to get a 7th seed! LOL @ that!

Kobrick rings without big man: 0. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Is that the same finals Lebron shot 37% and 21 ppg?

Is that the same finals run where Boobie Gibson was given like 15 freethrows each of the last 2 games out of nowhere despite being a jumpshooting scrub?:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

Is that the same finals run where Lebron came out of the east where the grandpa pistons lead by Grandpa Billups and his shuffleboard partner Grandpa Rasheed were the favorites to win the conference?:confusedshrug:

[Fox]

Lol spare me the "im not a lebron fan" crap :facepalm , stepped on the stick right away, prolly one of pauk's apr 2013 class gimmicks or one of the vintage haters...

Lequit finals record before teamming up with competition: 0-4

Lequit Record on finals with stacked team: cost em 1 ring, carried by refs on another oneStill doesn't change the fact that Kobrick has ONLY won his rings with a big man and only has one MVP. LeBron will get his 4th MVP and second finals MVP this year. Better than Kobrick.

Time to repeat.
Kobrick got YET ANOTHER big man in Howard in a selfclaimeds stacked team (YES; you Lakers fan hyped this team saying they'd easily go the Finals etc) and can only manage to get a 7th seed! LOL at that!

Kobrick rings without big man: 0. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[MVBallin2K]

Why is pau so disrespected on here? Not dominant? He was arguably the best big in the game during the three finals trips. He was definitely thebest offensive big in the game. Why does he get no love ever from laker fans?

Not all Lakers fans feel that way. I like the guy and think he's valuable when used right. Sometimes he can lack on defense but he is getting older and can't be relied on like he used to be. The key is that they have to use him right, which has been a struggle the entire season.

[KingBeasley08]

:facepalm @ these kobe stans walkin around with boners cuz they lost

[Nick Young]

Still doesn't change the fact that Kobrick has ONLY won his rings with a big man and only has one MVP. LeBron will get his 4th MVP and second finals MVP this year. Better than Kobrick.

Time to repeat.
Kobrick got YET ANOTHER big man in Howard in a selfclaimeds stacked team (YES; you Lakers fan hyped this team saying they'd easily go the Finals etc) and can only manage to get a 7th seed! LOL at that!

Kobrick rings without big man: 0. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Lebron has only won his ring with a bigman.

Parker only has his rings because of a bigman.

Everyteam that has ever won the finals won with a bigman you goddamn idiot:facepalm

[Is He Ill]

I'm not a LeBron fan. Jokes on you :banana: But since you mentioned him

LeBron took a worse Cleveland team to the Finals, Kobrick got YET ANOTHER big man in Howard in a self-proclaimed stacked team (YES; you Lakers fan hyped this team saying they'd easily go the Finals etc) and can only manage to get a 7th seed! LOL @ that!

Kobrick rings without big man: 0. :roll: :roll: :roll:

You realize "Kobrick" is about to turn 35 right? The Lakers are just not a good enough team to compete in the west this year. It has very little to do with Kobe.

[Fox]

Is that the same finals Lebron shot 37% and 21 ppg?

Is that the same finals run where Boobie Gibson was given like 15 freethrows each of the last 2 games out of nowhere despite being a jumpshooting scrub?:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

Is that the same finals run where Lebron came out of the east where the grandpa pistons lead by Grandpa Billups and his shuffleboard partner Grandpa Rasheed were the favorites to win the conference?:confusedshrug:
Point being LeBron took them to the Finals. Something Kobrick have NEVER done. Kobrick Cryant is the biggest fraud in the world of basketball, and his chuckin gene is something that stands in the way of his team's succes. He was carried to those rings, which was pathetic. Let's see Kobrick do it WITHOUT a big man. Can he do that? NO! A legit fraud.

[Nick Young]

Point being LeBron took them to the Finals. Something Kobrick have NEVER done. Kobrick Cryant is the biggest fraud in the world of basketball, and his chuckin gene is something that stands in the way of his team's succes. He was carried to those rings, which was pathetic. Let's see Kobrick do it WITHOUT a big man. Can he do that? NO! A legit fraud.
Um, Kobe took 7 teams to the finals. How can you say he's never done it when he's done it 7 times and won 5 times? What do you mean he's never taken his team to the finals? GTFO idiot.

[KingBeasley08]

Um, Kobe took 7 teams to the finals. How can you say he's never done it when he's done it 7 times and won 5 times? What do you mean he's never taken his team to the finals? GTFO idiot.
Shaq

[Is He Ill]

Point being LeBron took them to the Finals. Something Kobrick have NEVER done. Kobrick Cryant is the biggest fraud in the world of basketball, and his chuckin gene is something that stands in the way of his team's succes. He was carried to those rings, which was pathetic. Let's see Kobrick do it WITHOUT a big man. Can he do that? NO! A legit fraud.

:roll: This is the dumbest response I have ever read.

[Fox]

Um, Kobe took 7 teams to the finals. How can you say he's never done it when he's done it 7 times and won 5 times? What do you mean he's never taken his team to the finals? GTFO idiot.:roll: :roll: :roll: Learn to read! It said WITHOUT a big man (i.e dominant big man). He can only do it with one, while LeBron took a WORSE team to the finals, something Kobrick could NEVER do and has never done. Those rings Kobe has got NO value, and Imo makes him a fraud. He's like those Patriots receivers that won 3 Super Bowls rings because they had Tom Brady throwing to them, like Kobe has a big man to handle business. He was just along, and for that he should consider himself lucky (like those receivers). He can do shit without a big man! Not even get to the Finals :banana:

[jstern]

I'm guessing the Kobe nut huggers don't even want the Lakers to win a game.

[FiveRings]

Point being LeBron took them to the Finals. Something Kobrick have NEVER done. Kobrick Cryant is the biggest fraud in the world of basketball, and his chuckin gene is something that stands in the way of his team's succes. He was carried to those rings, which was pathetic. Let's see Kobrick do it WITHOUT a big man. Can he do that? NO! A legit fraud.
lol Lebron won his ring with a starting all star, best player at his position in the conference as his third option yet you're talking about Kobe having too much help even though his second option was only as good as Lebron's third option?

:biggums:

[avonbarksdale]

lebron without dwade and bosh: 0 rings!

[coin24]

I'm guessing the Kobe nut huggers don't even want the Lakers to win a game.

Maybe lakers fans aswell, might get us some much needed bench upgrade and a new coach:lol

Current team sucks without Kobe, nice try haters:facepalm
Take Lebron off his team and they still make the finals :roll:

[MaxFly]

:roll: :roll: :roll: Learn to read! It said WITHOUT a big man (i.e dominant big man). He can only do it with one, while LeBron took a WORSE team to the finals, something Kobrick could NEVER do and has never done. Those rings Kobe has got NO value, and Imo makes him a fraud. He's like those Patriots receivers that won 3 Super Bowls rings because they had Tom Brady throwing to them, like Kobe has a big man to handle business. He was just along, and for that he should consider himself lucky (like those receivers). He can do shit without a big man! Not even get to the Finals :banana:

Let's deal with the recent past for a minutue... from what you have said, it seems that a player who averaged 30.1/5.7/5.6 in 2008, 30.2/5.3/5.5 in 2009 and 29.2/6.0/5.5 was just along for the ride and that his contributions helped very little in getting the Lakers to the finals for 3 straight years and 2 championships. Is this what we are supposed to believe?

[lilgodfather1]

This thread is a breading ground for trolls...

Pau is not some godly player, he was the equivalant of Bosh as a lead man, which is to say not a cornerstone. Good player, all star worthy, but not a superstar.

That said in the three years the Lakers made the finals, if Pau wasn't on the team, they wouldn't have made the finals one time, let alone win two titles. Pau was exactly what the Lakers needed, and he absolutely was the best offensive big man in the NBA during the two title years. The amount of disrespect Pau Gasol is getting in this thread is crazy.

Also people putting down Bosh, just stop it. The guy is a very good player, he may not be a superstar, but he's an elite player. He's likely the best big in the East.

To the people calling Bosh a superstar, that's as rediculous, if not more rediculous than calling Pau one. Both are good players in their own right, but neither are close to that level, and never were.

[BlackVVaves]

A real Laker fan wouldn't be gloating about a member of his supported team's accumulated losses.

A Kobe stan though..

[WilliamsCollege]

What were the games when Gasol was on the Lakers in the PO's, but Kobe didn't play?

Gasol went 0-12 with Memphis, and obviously lost today. When were the other four games?

[Levity]

I'm honestly surprised the haters havent said, "kobe had pau and BYNUM" like they use to say about the lakers last two rings. A failed argument then for anyone who actually watched basketball. It's good to see you guys are growing from that one.

[vinsane01]

The way he is playing right now, i think he is more valuable to the lakers than dwight at the moment. It would be a big mistake for LA to trade him after this season. But seeing as his game gets disrespected a lot, i wouldnt mind seeing him in another uniform.

[SpecialQue]

The Kobe stans in this thread talking shit about Pau are a fvcking embarrassment. Please stop calling yourselves Laker fans, since no fan of the team would ever celebrate a fvcking loss. No wonder people relentlessly bash Kobe, since you rejects represent his fanbase.

[longtime lurker]

After all the garbage troll threads about Kobe there needs to be a thread that balances out the truth. If these idiots are going to claim Gasol as a dominant big then they should be able to back up their idiot opinions

[HeatFanSince88]

Kobe had a stacked team for 15 years and only has 2 Finals MVPs.

LeBrons had a stacked team for 3 years and will have already equaled his Finals MVPs. :oldlol:

[lilgodfather1]

The way he is playing right now, i think he is more valuable to the lakers than dwight at the moment. It would be a big mistake for LA to trade him after this season. But seeing as his game gets disrespected a lot, i wouldnt mind seeing him in another uniform.
I would love to see the Cavs make a run at him, unless they draft a big in the lotto. I don't know what LA would want for him, but Pau could be the piece that pushes the Cavs into the playoffs.

If we could get Pau for Zeller, Varejao, and some other minor assets, i'd personally be ecstatic. If it involved any of our top 5 picks (Kyrie, Tristan, Dion, whoever this year), or our pick in next years draft, then i'd pass.

A change of location would be great for Pau. His time in LA is played out. He's the scapegoat, he's a scrub, etc.

[Haks]

Lmao kobe stans
Simple fact.Pau was amazing in the lakers 2 championship runs
Top 5 big that period.....maybe even top 3

[HeatFanSince88]

kobe series record without Shaq/Gasol: 0-2

:oldlol:

I can keep doing this all day.

[SpecialQue]

Kobe had a stacked team for 15 years and only has 2 Finals MVPs.

LeBrons had a stacked team for 3 years and will have already equaled his Finals MVPs. :oldlol:

Smush, Kwame, Odom...STACKED.

[OldSkoolball#52]

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w62/Suprchrg96/Fisher-Kobe5Rings.jpg

This is ironic.

What is Kobe's playoff record without Fish?

[Magic 32]

Kobe had a stacked team for 15 years and only has 2 Finals MVPs.

LeBrons had a stacked team for 3 years and will have already equaled his Finals MVPs. :oldlol:

What 15 years are you talking about?:hammerhead:

[HeatFanSince88]

Smush, Kwame, Odom...STACKED.

Which is why I said 15 instead of every year of his career.


What 15 years are you talking about?:hammerhead:

Every year except the post Shaq-preGasol years where not surprisingly he won a combined 0 playoff series. LeBron carried scrubs to the Finals. There is no comparison.

[Fallen Angel]

Thats the reality of playing in the west.

Arenas, Iverson, Carter, T-mac, Lebron......... did it in the east. Can't do it in the west. Can't be done.

McGrady never won in the East either.

[I.R.Beast]

lebron only beat 1 team with a record over .500 in the playoffs before joining miami.

[Magic 32]

Every year except the post Shaq-preGasol years where not surprisingly he won a combined 0 playoff series. LeBron carried scrubs to the Finals. There is no comparison.

1996-2000 = If you count that :hammerhead:

2000-2004 = Won 3 out of 5

2005-08 = Crap team in the West <------ NOT THE P*SSY EAST (Lebron won 1 series against a decent team)

2008-2012 = Won 2 out of 4

[Fallen Angel]

lebron only beat 1 team with a record over .500 in the playoffs before joining miami.

LeBron is lucky he played in the East. He faces shitty team after shitty team. I bet he doesn't even sniff the 2nd round if he plays in the West.

[MetsPackers]

This thread is a breading ground for trolls...

Pau is not some godly player, he was the equivalant of Bosh as a lead man, which is to say not a cornerstone. Good player, all star worthy, but not a superstar.

That said in the three years the Lakers made the finals, if Pau wasn't on the team, they wouldn't have made the finals one time, let alone win two titles. Pau was exactly what the Lakers needed, and he absolutely was the best offensive big man in the NBA during the two title years. The amount of disrespect Pau Gasol is getting in this thread is crazy.

Also people putting down Bosh, just stop it. The guy is a very good player, he may not be a superstar, but he's an elite player. He's likely the best big in the East.

To the people calling Bosh a superstar, that's as rediculous, if not more rediculous than calling Pau one. Both are good players in their own right, but neither are close to that level, and never were.

This

I'd love to see Dwight leave in FA and Pau demand a trade, leaving the Lakers in shambles

[Magic 32]

McGrady never won in the East either.

My point still stand.

Show me a guard in the west (2000-2012) making it to the playoffs without an all-star big.

[HeatFanSince88]

1996-2000 = If you count that :hammerhead:

2000-2004 = Won 3 out of 5

2006-08 = Crap team in the West <------ NOT THE P*SSY EAST (Lebron won 1 series against a decent team)

2008-2012 = Won 2 out of 4

why would I not count 96-2000? LA had 4 all-stars on their team at the same time in that era. Really stacked team, but had a bunch of egos that weren't kept in check til Phil.

Kobe has never won a single playoff series without the best bigmen in the league. Prime Shaq > any frontline anyone could throw at him and Pau/Bynum/Odom was a frontcourt noone could match up with except a healthy Boston team which owned LA in 2008 and then was hurt the next two years.

You forgot 2013 on your list where the Lakers have 4 HOFers and were the favorite to win the western conference at the start of the year.

[Fallen Angel]

My point still stand.

Show me a guard in the west (2000-2012) making it to the playoffs without an all-star big.

Baron Davis.

[Magic 32]

:rolleyes:
why would I not count 96-2000? LA had 4 all-stars on their team at the same time in that era. Really stacked team, but had a bunch of egos that weren't kept in check til Phil.

Kobe has never won a single playoff series without the best bigmen in the league. Prime Shaq > any frontline anyone could throw at him and Pau/Bynum/Odom was a frontcourt noone could match up with except a healthy Boston team which owned LA in 2008 and then was hurt the next two years.

You forgot 2013 on your list where the Lakers have 4 HOFers and were the favorite to win the western conference at the start of the year.

96-99 = Kobe was a teenager of the bench. Are you kidding me?

Bynum in 09 and 10 = 8 pts and 6 reb. AMAZING

Odom and Pau <<<<<<<<<< Bosh and Wade

2013 PLEASE. 17th year Injuries galore. Played amazing.

YOU LOOOOOOSSSSEEEEE

[HeatFanSince88]

Baron Davis.

Ray Allen won series in the West as well with Seattle. So did Nash the year Amare went out unless your retarded enough to call Marion a "bigman". These guys all won series. The Kobe kids got plenty of excuses though.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Not to say Gasol played bad, he balled his little spanish heart out there.

[Magic 32]

Baron Davis.

Well done. But Warriors were 42-40. The weakest 8th seed in that decade.

[HeatFanSince88]

:rolleyes:

96-99 = Kobe was a teenager of the bench. Are you kidding me?

Bynum in 09 and 10 = 8 pts and 6 reb. AMAZING

Odom and Pau <<<<<<<<<< Bosh and Wade

PLEASE. 17th year Injuries galore. Played amazing.

YOU LOOOOOOSSSSEEEEE

I don't care what Bynums stats were. No team in the NBA during that stretch had the muscle up front to match up with a Bynum/Gasol/Odom during those years except for a healthy Boston team which proved true by destroying LA the one year they were healthy. If you think other teams had equal talent down low(where the Lakers truly won their games) prove me wrong.

Love owning these new generation Kobe kids who don't know shit about the game.

[Nick Young]

Ray Allen won series in the West as well with Seattle. So did Nash the year Amare went out unless your retarded enough to call Marion a "bigman". These guys all won series. The Kobe kids got plenty of excuses though.

:no:
Boris Diaw reigning MIP award winner and the first ever "point center"

[Fallen Angel]

Well done. But Warriors were 42-40. The weakest 8th seed in that decade.

Russell Westbrook.

[Rik Smits' Hair]

Kobe fans are an odd bunch. They would just assume their team lose without Kobe in order to perpetuate their zealot like worship of the man.

[Magic 32]

Ray Allen won series in the West as well with Seattle. So did Nash the year Amare went out unless your retarded enough to call Marion a "bigman". These guys all won series. The Kobe kids got plenty of excuses though.

Marion was a big.

Seattlehad an increddible deep frontcourt in 04-05

Collison, Evans and Jerome James playing out of his mind.

[HeatFanSince88]

:no:
Boris Diaw reigning MIP award winner and the first ever "point center"

So Boris Diaw is an all-star now?

Please show me his career statistics without Steve Nash elevating his game....hell show me them even WITH steve nash. :oldlol:

Anything else kids?

[Heavincent]

I don't care what Bynums stats were. No team in the NBA during that stretch had the muscle up front to match up with a Bynum/Gasol/Odom during those years except for a healthy Boston team which proved true by destroying LA the one year they were healthy. If you think other teams had equal talent down low(where the Lakers truly won their games) prove me wrong.

Love owning these new generation Kobe kids who don't know shit about the game.

April 2013

[Magic 32]

Russell Westbrook.

Kevin Durant? Almost beat the Lakers in 2010.

Very good team.

[Fallen Angel]

Kevin Durant? Almost beat the Lakers in 2010.

Very good team.

Kevin Durant is not a big man.

[MetsPackers]

lebron only beat 1 team with a record over .500 in the playoffs before joining miami.

This is simply untrue. Off the top: Pistons, Boston, Orlando

This thread is pathetic on so many levels

[HeatFanSince88]

:roll:
Marion was a big.

Seattle was increddible deep in the frontcourt in 04-05

Collison, Evans and Jerome James playing out of his mind.

Marion isn't a big, he is a perimeter player.

None of those Seattle guys are even close to all-stars. Your point was "to show me a guard who made the playoffs with an all-star big in the West". Not only will I show you guards that made the playoffs, but I'll show you perimeter guys that won a series(something Kobe was never able to do LOL).

-Ray Allen
-Baron Davis
-Russell Westbrook
-Carmelo Anthony
-Kevin Durant
-Steve Nash

All won series without an all-star big. Feel free to nitpick and change the criteria since you got owned , but the truth is that Kobe is more reliant on his team than any superstar in league history requiring a hall of fame coach/best frontcourt in the league just to win a single playoff series. :oldlol:

[Magic 32]

Kevin Durant is not a big man.

Doesn't play like one. Still is one in my book.

And you keep mentioning 8th seeds. Are you aware of this trend.

You just can't make in the west without an all-star big.

[Magic 32]

:roll:

Marion isn't a big, he is a perimeter player.

None of those Seattle guys are even close to all-stars. Your point was "to show me a guard who made the playoffs with an all-star big in the West". Not only will I show you guards that made the playoffs, but I'll show you perimeter guys that won a series(something Kobe was never able to do LOL).

-Ray Allen
-Baron Davis
-Russell Westbrook
-Carmelo Anthony
-Kevin Durant
-Steve Nash

All won series without an all-star big. Feel free to nitpick and change the criteria since you got owned , but the truth is that Kobe is more reliant on his team than any superstar in league history requiring a hall of fame coach/best frontcourt in the league just to win a single playoff series.



-Ray Allen (deep frontcourt)
-Baron Davis (8th seed)
-Russell Westbrook (8th seed)
-Carmelo Anthony (8th seed)
-Kevin Durant (...........8th seed)
-Steve Nash (Marion, PF all-star)


So that's 1 guy above the 8th seed.

In the east however, you needed nothing to succeed.

[Magic 32]

This is simply untrue. Off the top: Pistons, Boston, Orlando

This thread is pathetic on so many levels

:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[HeatFanSince88]

-Ray Allen (deep frontcourt)
-Baron Davis (8th seed)
-Russell Westbrook (8th seed)
-Carmelo Anthony (8th seed)
-Kevin Durant (same as above....8th seed)
-Steve Nash (Marion, PF all-star)



So that's 1 guy above the 8th seed.

In the east however, you needed nothing to succeed.[/QUOTE]

These guys didn't just squeak into the playoffs as an 8th seed. They did damage and won playoff series you buffoon. Please tell me which one of Jerome James and company on those Seattle teams was an allstar. I look forward to your answer.

Your just as braindead as D'antoni and Kobe. Enjoy the premature playoff exit, my Heat are looking good.

[Fallen Angel]

Doesn't play like one. Still is one in my book.

And you keep mentioning 8th seeds. Are you aware of this trend.

You just can't make in the west without an all-star big.

No, Kevin Durant is a perimeter oriented player. To say otherwise is dumb. You are aware OKC made the playoffs as a top 4 seeded team the following year right?

You can make the playoffs without an all star big man. Why are you drawing the line at 2012? A bit arbitrary don't you think? Harden just took Houston to the playoffs without an all star big man.

[DetroitPistonFan]

Kobrick rings without dominant big man: 0

:roll:
Who was the dominant big man on the '09 '10 team?

[Magic 32]

No, Kevin Durant is a perimeter oriented player. To say otherwise is dumb. You are aware OKC made the playoffs as a top 4 seeded team the following year right?

You can make the playoffs without an all star big man. Why are you drawing the line at 2012? A bit arbitrary don't you think? Harden just took Houston to the playoffs without an all star big man.

And Harden made as a.........8th seed

Kevin Durant is a perimeter oriented player, so was Dirk. Still a big.

[Fallen Angel]

And Harden made as a.........8th seed

Kevin Durant is a perimeter oriented player, so was Dirk. Still a big.

Tracy McGrady in 2008.

[Magic 32]

So that's 1 guy above the 8th seed.

In the east however, you needed nothing to succeed.

These guys didn't just squeak into the playoffs as an 8th seed. They did damage and won playoff series you buffoon. Please tell me which one of Jerome James and company on those Seattle teams was an allstar. I look forward to your answer.


Jerome James played very good (and amazing in the playoffs). Knicks gave him a big fat contract (that they still regret).

And I gave you guys credit for finding 1!!!!! (Ray in 04-05).

The rest of them made no noise between 2000 and 2010 without an excellent big.

[KingBeasley08]

Durant plays the 3. How the hell is he a big? Do some of these people know basketball??? :lol

[Magic 32]

Tracy McGrady in 2008.

Yao played 55 games. Made their RS record possible.

Did nothing after his injury.

[TheCalmInsanity]

lol haters reaching far, thread triggered damage-control :oldlol:

lequit rings w/o unprecedented stacked team able to win w/o him = 0

Why would you bring Lebron into this? Kobe fans are so insecure about other players doing well.

Also, unprecedented stacked team? What was Kobe/Shaq/Malone/Payton and the rest of that team? What about Shaq Kobe and all those good role players like Horry and everyone? What a fail argument. Kobe has had some of the most stacked teams in NBA history and was even coached by the coach with more rings than most people in the hall of fame had. One of the best if not the best coach of all time (arguable).

[Magic 32]

Why would you bring Lebron into this? Kobe fans are so insecure about other players doing well.

Also, unprecedented stacked team? What was Kobe/Shaq/Malone/Payton and the rest of that team? What about Shaq Kobe and all those good role players like Horry and everyone?

lol

Old fab 4 and good role players is now a stacked team?

[Fallen Angel]

Yao played 55 games. Made their RS record possible.

Did nothing after his injury.

McGrady kept winning even after Yao got injured. The final 12 games of that 22 game winning streak were played without Yao.

[Magic 32]

Durant plays the 3. How the hell is he a big? Do some of these people know basketball??? :lol

Whatever. 8th seed with a superb frontcourt.

Lebron waltzed through the east without a big.

Wizards, Hawks, 09 Pistons, 07 nets, 10 bulls. God awful teams.

[KingBeasley08]

Whatever. 8th seed with a superb frontcourt.

Lebron waltzed through the east without a big.

Wizards, Hawks, 09 Pistons, 07 nets, 10 bulls. God awful teams.
What superb frontcourt? Real question cause I have no idea what you're talking about. At that time, Perkins wasn't on the team (Perkins is trash anyway but I'm just saying) and Ibaka hardly got playing time.

[Magic 32]

McGrady kept winning even after Yao got injured. The final 12 games of that 22 game winning streak were played without Yao.

Freak accident. No way they could have keept it up for 82 games.

Anyway, is this the best you got?

Don't you think the point is proven?

You are, at best, first round fodder without a big in the west.

The fact that Kobe made it with THAT team to the playoffs back-to-back, is more amazing than Lebron beating crap teams in the east.

[Magic 32]

What superb frontcourt? Real question cause I have no idea what you're talking about. At that time, Perkins wasn't on the team (Perkins is trash anyway but I'm just saying) and Ibaka hardly got playing time.

When i write fast, I sometimes write with instead of without (some weird tick). Obviously I meant without.

[TheCalmInsanity]

lol

Old fab 4 and good role players makes you a stacked team?

I'm sorry man, I forgot that having one of the best centers of all time and other role players made the Lakers a shit team back then.

Man Kobe has had to carry some HORRIBLE teams to championships. Those Lakers teams sure sucked!

[AintNoSunshine]

0-17, and counting

:lol

kobe's ring count without the league's most dominant front court?

-> 0

[Magic 32]

I'm sorry man, I forgot that having one of the best centers of all time and other role players made the Lakers a shit team back then.

Man Kobe has had to carry some HORRIBLE teams to championships. Those Lakers teams sure sucked!

They made it to the finals. His shortcommings in the 2004 finals are well-documentented and correct (that he was able to perform in the first 3 rounds with a legal case around his neck is quite impressive though). Malone was injured and Payton was old (and refused to play the triangle correct).

Is this the best you got? 04 again. Why not talk about the 2011 finals then.

[TheCalmInsanity]

They made it to the finals. His shortcommings in the 2004 finals are well-documentented and correct (that he was able to perform in the first 3 rounds with a legal case around his neck is quite impressive though). Malone was injured and Payton was old (and refused to play the triangle correct).

Is this the best you got? 04 again. Why not talk about the 2011 finals then.

Kobe has had plenty of stacked teams. Whether he won championships with them or not. That's my point.

There's not much argument you can make about Kobe carrying a scrub team to a championship, or even to the finals for that matter. Which is what all these Lebron haters always bring up for Lebron. Lebron actually did take a garbage team (in my opinion) to the finals. Yes he choked, yes he gave up many times in the playoffs, but that's not the topic at hand here.

People act like Lebron can't take a bad team to the finals and that he NEEDED this "superteam" to win anything. That point is wrong. And this is coming from me, I'm not a Heat fan or a Lebron fan whatsoever.

[Magic 32]

Kobe has had plenty of stacked teams. Whether he won championships with them or not. That's my point.

There's not much argument you can make about Kobe carrying a scrub team to a championship, or even to the finals for that matter. Which is what all these Lebron haters always bring up for Lebron. Lebron actually did take a garbage team (in my opinion) to the finals. Yes he choked, yes he gave up many times in the playoffs, but that's not the topic at hand here.

People act like Lebron can't take a bad team to the finals and that he NEEDED this "superteam" to win anything. That point is wrong. And this is coming from me, I'm not a Heat fan or a Lebron fan whatsoever.

You must have missed the whole east. vs west debate here. It was a significant advantage for Lebron in 07-10. He defeated no one during his cavs runs (the Pistons team was on their last "Webber" legs).

Kobe played on two "stacked" teams. Both old and just 2 years in total (in his 17th year and during a trial.)

[Deuce Bigalow]

kobe's ring count without the league's most dominant front court?

-> 0
We going to act like Kobe has had teams more stacked than players like Russell, Magic, Kareem, and Jordan did? (Speaking of post Shaq)

Bottomline:

Kobe has 5 rings

[Ne 1]

You must have missed the whole east. vs west debate here. It was a significant advantage for Lebron in 07-10. He defeated no one during his cavs runs (the Pistons team was on their last "Webber" legs).

Kobe played on two "stacked" teams. Both old and just 2 years in total (in his 17th year and during a trial.)

2006 Washington Wizards (42-40)
2007 Washington Wizards (41-41)
2007 New Jersey Nets (41-41)
2007 Detroit Pistons (53-29)
2008 Washington Wizards (43-39)
2009 Detroit Pistons (39-43)
2009 Atlanta Hawks (47-35)
2010 Chicago Bulls (41-41)


There isn't an all star in this league incapable of duplicating LeBron's "success" with the Cavs. Those teams dont even make the playoffs in the West.

Any superstar in league history when paired with a top defensive, top rebounding and top three point shooting supporting cast is capable of duplicating what Lebron accomplished given the competition with the Cavs. People with agendas love to make his teammates look worse than they are just to prop up LeBron. The team, especially in 2010 perfectly complimented his talents or any superstar wing for that matter.

[Leviathon1121]

We going to act like Kobe has had teams more stacked than players like Russell, Magic, Kareem, and Jordan did? (Speaking of post Shaq)

Bottomline:

Kobe has 5 rings

Compared to the eras each played in, yes, Kobe's teams have been just as stacked. Kobe getting to play with Pau, Shaq, Dwight, and Bynum in a league severley lacking big men is stacked.

[TheCalmInsanity]

You must have missed the whole east. vs west debate here. It was a significant advantage for Lebron in 07-10. He defeated no one during his cavs runs (the Pistons team was on their last "Webber" legs).

Kobe played on two "stacked" teams. Both old and just 2 years in total (in his 17th year and during a trial.)

Yeah I did miss that part, but the topic at hand was that Mr. Jabbar said that Lebron has won 0 rings without a stacked team.

That statement alone is garbage, just because Kobe has won 0 rings without a stacked team too. All of Kobe's teams have been good to elite. The time he had garbage, he missed playoffs, and then the next year got booted out of the first round with garbage. That's my point

[longtime lurker]

Compared to the eras each played in, yes, Kobe's teams have been just as stacked. Kobe getting to play with Pau, Shaq, Dwight, and Bynum in a league severley lacking big men is stacked.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[TheBigVeto]

About as funny as how many playoff series Kobe has won without a dominant big man.

This.

Kobe =

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/Rodman2124/kobeclutch.gif


No Shaq, No Gasol, no ring.

[Ne 1]

kobe's ring count without the league's most dominant front court?

-> 0

Kobe's range is what made the Lakers length especially successful. Otherwise teams could just clog the paint.

Honesty there were probably 8-10 teams in the league with front-courts that would have been contenders with Kobe, while there was only 1 SG on Kobe's level in 2009 and 2010 (Dwayne Wade).

The Lakers front-court is usually just overrated by idiotic Kobe detractors trying to diminish him. The "dominant" front-court and the Lakers didn't even finish top 5 in OREB%, DREB%, or rebounding differential. I especially like how they always bring up Bynum. I can understand Gasol/Odom, who were both key for the Lakers during the 3 consecutive Finals runs, but including Bynum? :oldlol:

Bynum-
2008 Regular season: Only played 35 games. Lakers won 57 games and finished with the #1 seed in the stacked Western Conference.
2008 Playoffs: Didn't play. Lakers still made the Finals without him.

2009 Regular season: Only played 50 games.
2009 Playoffs: Averaged 6/3. Lakers still win championship

2010 Playoffs: Averaged 9/7. Lakers win championship.

There were more teams that could pose front-courts on the Lakers level than guards that were on Kobe's level.

These front-courts would have been contenders with a Kobe Bryant...
Hawks: Horford/Pachulia/Josh Smith/Kobe
Magic: Dwight/Gortat/Rashard/Kobe
Jazz: Okur/Jefferson/Millsap/Kobe
Boston: Garnett/Perkins/Wallace/Kobe
Portland: Pryzvvilla/Camby/Aldridge/Kobe
Nuggets: Nene/Martin/Andersen
Mavs: Nowitzki/Marion/Chandler/Haywood/Kobe
Bulls: Noah/Boozer/Deng/Kobe

and that's just off the type of my head...

Now keep in mind Kobe averaged 30/6/6 in the playoffs during the Lakers 3 straight Finals runs.

2010 Championship run, Odom/Gasol/Bynum combined: 36 PPG/24 RPG/4 APG

Hawks: Horford/Pazchila/Josh Smith season: 34 PPG/23 RPG/6 APG

Dallas: Dirk/Haywood/Dampier: 39 PPG/22 RPG/4 APG

Orlando:Howard/Rashard/Gortat: 36 PPG/21 RPG/4 APG

Bulls: Boozer/Noah/Deng: 41 PPG/29 RPG/7 APG

That's at least 5 teams that can replace LA's front-court and still expect a ring. The Kobe Bryant's of the world are ridiculously hard to find. No SG could have replaced Kobe except perhaps Wade in 2009 and 2010. That goes without saying Wade's skill set isn't suited for the triangle as well as Kobe's. Not saying he wouldn't be good in it, just not as good as Kobe. Wade doesn't have the range, nor is he as good off the ball.

[Deuce Bigalow]

lebron only beat 1 team with a record over .500 in the playoffs before joining miami.
It's actually 1 team with 50+ wins, which was the 07 Pistons. That is why when people say hey look how far Lebron got by "himself" compared to Kobe, Lebron got past the first round while Kobe didn't don't know what they are talking about. Kobe faced a 54 win team in the first round in 06 and a 61 win team in the first round in 07. While Lebron faced teams that could not win 50 games in the east, some at .500 or below. And when he did face a 50 win team, his team lost everytime except once.

[Magic 32]

That statement alone is garbage, just because Kobe has won 0 rings without a stacked team too. All of Kobe's teams have been good to elite. The time he had garbage, he missed playoffs, and then the next year got booted out of the first round with garbage. That's my point

Kobe's teams have been about as stacked as any championship team in the modern era. Nothing above the ordinary.

When Kobe played with garbage, it was in the west. When Lebron played with garbage, it was in the east.

Lebron's overrated solo success in the leastern conference creates a false perception in the overall Kobe/Lebron comparison.

[HeatFanSince88]

These front-courts would have been contenders with a Kobe Bryant...
Hawks: Horford/Pachulia/Josh Smith/Kobe
Magic: Dwight/Gortat/Rashard/Kobe
Jazz: Okur/Jefferson/Millsap/Kobe
Boston: Garnett/Perkins/Wallace/Kobe
Portland: Pryzvvilla/Camby/Aldridge/Kobe
Nuggets: Nene/Martin/Andersen
Mavs: Nowitzki/Marion/Chandler/Haywood/Kobe
Bulls: Noah/Boozer/Deng/Kobe

and that's just off the type of my head...

Now keep in mind Kobe averaged 30/6/6 in the playoffs during the Lakers 3 straight Finals runs.

2010 Championship run, Odom/Gasol/Bynum combined: 36 PPG/24 RPG/4 APG

Hawks: Horford/Pazchila/Josh Smith season: 34 PPG/23 RPG/6 APG

Dallas: Dirk/Haywood/Dampier: 39 PPG/22 RPG/4 APG

Orlando:Howard/Rashard/Gortat: 36 PPG/21 RPG/4 APG

Bulls: Boozer/Noah/Deng: 41 PPG/29 RPG/7 APG


None of those bigmen are comparable to LALs bigmen combo of Bynum/Gasol/Odom except for Boston(healthy) and Dallas(WITH chandler).

And guess what?

LA Got smacked by a healthy Celtics team in the 2008 Finals and SWEPT by the Dirk/Chandler combo in 2011.

LA was the favorite in EVERY series they played in from 2008-2011. This team was loaded and the number one reason they won was because they won the battle in the paint and outrebounded/outpower teams down low and noone could match that.

What frontcourts from that list did LA actually have to match up with in the playoffs. Dallas(with Chandler), and Boston(when healthy with Garnett/Perkins/Big Baby/Powe) both smacked them. Who else from that list did they play?

The Jazz who had a Boozer/Okur frontcourt with rookie Millsap playing 15 minutes per game?

The Nuggets with Nene and Birdman? LOL

Or the Magic who only play one big on the floor at a time with Dwight Howard or Gortat?

How about the Celtics with KG on one leg and no Perkins/Powe?

Get real, the Lakers were favorites in every single series those years and the result was always entirely dependant on whether their frontcourt could outplay the opponents.

[Ne 1]

Kobe has won 0 rings without a stacked team too.

The 3-peat Lakers were not stacked. They won 3 straight championships, which is a rare feat. Who was the 3rd best player on those team? Glen Rice and Rick Fox? Those teams were not very talented outside of Shaq and Kobe, they had below average role players at each position outside of them. Yet they weren't just a championship caliber team, but they were a DYNASTY. In fact, out of all the dynasties in NBA history those Lakers were CLEARLY the least talented. That's why Shaq and Kobe BOTH deserve a huge amount of credit for those 3 championships. Even the WCF against Portland in 2000 the Blazers were called "too deep" due to their ridiculous depth and talent, while the Lakers were called "two deep", a reference to them having 2 stars and then a MASSIVE drop off after that to the point of NOTHING worth mentioning beyond Shaq/Kobe. Just a few solid role players who each did maybe 1 or 2 things well, and flat out couldn't do other things.


The back-to-back championship Lakers were the traditional style championship team, with one superstar, a great all-star sidekick, and varied contributions from good role players in the playoffs. Nothing more, nothing less.


2008 Kobe carried L.A. to the Finals with Gasol/Odom. Ariza and Bynum were both injured. Gasol was a top 20 player and Odom was a role player


In '09 he won a championship with essentially Gasol/Odom/Ariza

Gasol was a very good, top 10-15 player.

Odom was a solid third fiddle/role-player

Ariza was a solid role player

The Lakers bench was crap, Bynum put up 6/4 and Fisher might have been the worst starting PG in the league at that point of his career.

2010-

Gasol: solid season, top 10-15 player, great playoff run

Artest: shell of his former self....don't get me wrong he was still good defensively but his man-to-man defense meant little in 2-4 series, and we're talking about perhaps the worst offensive starting SF in the league.

Odom: Struggled all season, role-player and nothing more.

Fisher: worst starting PG in the nba

Bynum: put up 7/6 in the playoffs

bench- among the worst in the league

3-point shooting....24th in the league

If the 2008-2010 Lakers were so incredibly stacked as some people say (It's mainly Kobe detractors) then Kobe wouldn't have had to put up 30/6/6, 30/5/6 and 29/6/6 during the Lakers 3 Finals runs.

[Magic 32]

LA Got smacked by a healthy Celtics team in the 2008 Finals and SWEPT by the Dirk/Chandler combo in 2011.


Lakers were one half in game 4 and a comeback in game 2 from winning that series.

Lakers lost in 2011 because Kobe, Pau and Bunym were falling apart physically. We can't all be fans of PED tanks like Lebron and Wade.

[HeatFanSince88]

The Lakers bench was crap

You clearly have no idea what your talking about

The Lakers bench was one of the biggest reasons they were succesfull from 2008-2010. Guys like Jordan Farmar, Sasha Vucevic, Shannon Brown weren't exceptional players, but these guys brought YOUTH and ENERGY to the floor whenever they checked into the game. The Lakers needed that with a team that is typically halfcourt oriented and kind of old. Kobe doesn't give you much hustle/energy since his days of being 2nd fiddle to Shaq. These guys were perfect for LA and they missed them as soon as they had to replace them with old low energy guys like Steve Blake, and Antawn Jamison. These replacements were even worse when you consider they replaced Ariza with Ron Artest.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Compared to the eras each played in, yes, Kobe's teams have been just as stacked. Kobe getting to play with Pau, Shaq, Dwight, and Bynum in a league severley lacking big men is stacked.
First of all in 08 Bynum did not play a single game in the playoffs. In 09 and 10 Pau and Odom were great big men and Bynum was no where near a good player yet (6/4 and 9/7 playoff averages). In 2011 playoffs Pau was horrible in the playoffs (13/8 on 42%). In 2012 Lakers did not have Odom, Pau's playoff numbers were basically the same as last years, Bynum shot below 48% in the playoffs (was great in the RS but not in the playoffs). In 09 and 10 you could call the frontline great, but not in 06-08, 11-12. And 2013? A good frontcourt but the overall team is not good, this is evident throughout the season as they barely were able to get into the playoffs.

[TheCalmInsanity]

The 3-peat Lakers were not stacked. They won 3 straight championships, which is a rare feat. Who was the 3rd best player on those team? Glen Rice and Rick Fox? Those teams were not very talented outside of Shaq and Kobe, they had below average role players at each position outside of them. Yet they weren't just a championship caliber team, but they were a DYNASTY. In fact, out of all the dynasties in NBA history those Lakers were CLEARLY the least talented. That's why Shaq and Kobe BOTH deserve a huge amount of credit for those 3 championships. Even the WCF against Portland in 2000 the Blazers were called "too deep" due to their ridiculous depth and talent, while the Lakers were called "two deep", a reference to them having 2 stars and then a MASSIVE drop off after that to the point of NOTHING worth mentioning beyond Shaq/Kobe. Just a few solid role players who each did maybe 1 or 2 things well, and flat out couldn't do other things.


The back-to-back championship Lakers were the traditional style championship team, with one superstar, a great all-star sidekick, and varied contributions from good role players in the playoffs. Nothing more, nothing less.


2008 Kobe carried L.A. to the Finals with Gasol/Odom. Ariza and Bynum were both injured. Gasol was a top 20 player and Odom was a role player


In '09 he won a championship with essentially Gasol/Odom/Ariza

Gasol was a very good, top 10-15 player.

Odom was a solid third fiddle/role-player

Ariza was a solid role player

The Lakers bench was crap, Bynum put up 6/4 and Fisher might have been the worst starting PG in the league at that point of his career.

2010-

Gasol: solid season, top 10-15 player, great playoff run

Artest: shell of his former self....don't get me wrong he was still good defensively but his man-to-man defense meant little in 2-4 series, and we're talking about perhaps the worst offensive starting SF in the league.

Odom: Struggled all season, role-player and nothing more.

Fisher: worst starting PG in the nba

Bynum: put up 7/6 in the playoffs

bench- among the worst in the league

3-point shooting....24th in the league

If the 2008-2010 Lakers were so incredibly stacked as some people say (It's mainly Kobe detractors) then Kobe wouldn't have had to put up 30/6/6, 30/5/6 and 29/6/6 during the Lakers 3 Finals runs.

2 of the top 10 players of all time (arguably) should already be a "stacked team".

Lebron/Wade/James can be considered "stacked" yet Kobe and Shaq can't? Are you kidding me? Wade and Bosh are nowhere near the level of Shaq. Lebron you might be able to argue in the top debates, especially after his career ends. But Wade and Bosh are great players, all stars, superstars, but not top 10 all time NBA.

So why is their team stacked if they have Lebron and two all stars? Big deal. The Pistons squad that beat the Lakers had 4 all stars in their starting 5 the next year, and the one left out was Tayshaun Prince who had such a huge impact on that team. Yet no one called them a "superteam".

[TonyMontana]

These threads are always good to see which Laker fans actually have a connection to Los Angeles and the actual team and which "Laker fans" are just little kid player only fans that only care about Kobe Bryant and live across the country. :oldlol:

[gilalizard]

0-17, and counting

:lol

Without Shaq or Gasol, Kobe at his best got flushed from the first round.

[Ne 1]

It's actually 1 team with 50+ wins, which was the 07 Pistons.

And the '07 Pistons were clearly at the tail end of that teams run. Depleted and without their defensive anchor Ben Wallace and the only reason they got past them was because Boobie Gibson lit them up in game 6 and the Cavs got every single call. I mean the '07 pistons were alright but I think that was their weakest Pistons team from '03-'08. The East just sucked major ass that year. They were however better in '08 along with the East in general.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Without Shaq or Gasol, Kobe at his best got flushed from the first round.
So did Jordan without Pippen. What's your point?

[TonyMontana]

2 of the top 10 players of all time (arguably) should already be a "stacked team".

Lebron/Wade/James can be considered "stacked" yet Kobe and Shaq can't? Are you kidding me? Wade and Bosh are nowhere near the level of Shaq. Lebron you might be able to argue in the top debates, especially after his career ends. But Wade and Bosh are great players, all stars, superstars, but not top 10 all time NBA.

So why is their team stacked if they have Lebron and two all stars? Big deal. The Pistons squad that beat the Lakers had 4 all stars in their starting 5 the next year, and the one left out was Tayshaun Prince who had such a huge impact on that team. Yet no one called them a "superteam".

The team is "stacked" because it has LeBron James who is far and away the best player in the league. There hasn't been this big a gap between the best and 2nd best player since Prime Shaq and we all know how that went. That isn't even a knock on Durant either as he is very good and put up a historic year of his own. LeBron is just that good.

Prime LeBron is a top 5 player all-time.

Wade and Bosh arn't superstars either. I'm confident if you take Wade off the Heat and put Ray Allen in there the team still wins 60+ games and doesn't miss a beat.

Bosh is more important because hes a bigman, but if he was leading his own team he wouldn't be able to make the playoffs. I think he made it like one year his entire tenure in Toronto? Hes an OK all-star.

If you take LeBron off the team there is 0% chance of a ring. LeBrons dominance is why the Heat are so dominant. The cast and overall system/culture that Riley has installed will make them a dynasty.

[TheCalmInsanity]

The team is "stacked" because it has LeBron James who is far and away the best player in the league. There hasn't been this big a gap between the best and 2nd best player since Prime Shaq and we all know how that went.

Prime LeBron is a top 5 player all-time.

Wade and Bosh arn't superstars either. I'm confident if you take Wade off the Heat and put Ray Allen in there the team still wins 60+ games and doesn't miss a beat.

Bosh is more important because hes a bigman, but if he was leading his own team he wouldn't be able to make the playoffs. I think he made it like one year his entire tenure in Toronto? Hes an OK all-star.

If you take LeBron off the team there is 0% chance of a ring. LeBrons dominance is why the Heat are so dominant. The cast and overall system/culture that Riley has installed will make them a dynasty.

So how are they stacked if you can remove 1 player and make their championship odds go from really high to 0%? (your words)

[TheCalmInsanity]

The team is "stacked" because it has LeBron James who is far and away the best player in the league. There hasn't been this big a gap between the best and 2nd best player since Prime Shaq and we all know how that went.

Prime LeBron is a top 5 player all-time.

Wade and Bosh arn't superstars either. I'm confident if you take Wade off the Heat and put Ray Allen in there the team still wins 60+ games and doesn't miss a beat.

Bosh is more important because hes a bigman, but if he was leading his own team he wouldn't be able to make the playoffs. I think he made it like one year his entire tenure in Toronto? Hes an OK all-star.

If you take LeBron off the team there is 0% chance of a ring. LeBrons dominance is why the Heat are so dominant. The cast and overall system/culture that Riley has installed will make them a dynasty.

So how are they stacked if you can remove 1 player and make their championship odds go from really high to 0%? (your words)

[Magic 32]

Wade and Bosh arn't superstars either.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/FinalsPerformances-1/greatest-finals-performances-no-1

:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[FF1]

Not sure why anyone hasn't called out validity of this thread yet...

Pau is 0-13 without Kobe, not 0-17. Not that it matters that much.

[Mrofir]

0-17, and counting

:lol


Just answer a simple question.


Who are you rooting for, Spurs or Lakers?

[Mr. Jabbar]

LeBron is just that good.

look pauk, here is where you start failing. Lebron is not that good, he just happens to be in the most stacked team in history, created in a cheap manner by the way. He in fact cost that very team a ring with his 2nd in a row finals dissapearing act.

Dude is a talented front runner I'll give you that, but there's just too much evidence that makes comparing him with all time greats plain heresy. Lebron basically bought a ring where he could have fought and earn one. He plain and simple committed basketball suicide by joining 1 top 3 and another top 8 player in the league, not to mention the rest of the clutch cast.

At some point you don't need to look at the results but the path itself, there is a reason drug lords don't appear in the "world's richest ppl" rankings...

[Mr. Jabbar]

Just answer a simple question.


Who are you rooting for, Spurs or Lakers?

Lakers of course, it just happens to be a stat to prove these haters wrong (again). One of the big differences between lebrons fanbase and kobes is that kobes fanbase is a team first fanbase with few exceptions...

[Mrofir]

Lakers of course, it just happens to be a stat to prove these haters wrong (again). One of the big differences between lebrons fanbase and kobes is that kobes fanbase is a team first fanbase with few exceptions...


Don't believe you/load of crap.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Don't believe you/load of crap.

then why do you ask? go bother somewhere else...

[Mrofir]

then why do you ask? go bother somewhere else...

I was making a point by asking a rhetorical question, it did not need an answer. The answer is your giddy thread

[AintNoSunshine]

We going to act like Kobe has had teams more stacked than players like Russell, Magic, Kareem, and Jordan did? (Speaking of post Shaq)

Bottomline:

Kobe has 5 rings

No, bottomline:

Noone can win without help

you kobe stans constantly downplay his teammate to try to make him look good. Gasol can't win without kobe, but it's just the same the other way around

[Mr. Jabbar]

I was making a point by asking a rhetorical question, it did not need an answer. The answer is your giddy thread

you're not making any points, you have a theory and ask a question in which you only accept a certain answer in order to validate it, glad you find "your answer" in that fantasy world of yours...

[Magic 32]

No, bottomline:

Noone can win without help

you kobe stans constantly downplay his teammate to try to make him look good. Gasol can't win without kobe, but it's just the same the other way around

and a Lebron fan in this thread just said that Wade is not a superstar.

:facepalm

Kobe never played in the East, and he never had this much help.

As easy as possible......Lebron's motto.

[Deuce Bigalow]

No, bottomline:

Noone can win without help

you kobe stans constantly downplay his teammate to try to make him look good. Gasol can't win without kobe, but it's just the same the other way around
Kobe did win without Pau though. 3 times before Pau even came to the league. And his team was 31-16 before Pau played for the Lakers in 2007-08, so the Lakers would have got a favorable matchup in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs at least and would have won one playoff series at worst with their pace. And now you're going to say bbbut he had Shaq for those 3! Yeah and he won 2 without Shaq too. I don't downplay 09&10 Pau, I know he played great in the playoffs when they won, especially in the finals.

[GoldMedallist]

Kobe won 3 rings with Shaq in the team.

Kobe won 2 rings with a great big men combo (Gasol-Odom-Bynum).

Kobe can't win rings alone.

Man, LA should be the only team that have more fans rooting one player and disrespecting the others (not only Gasol, he is only the most disrespected) than rooting the team.

It's so sad.

[Lebron23]

What's Kobe's playoffs record without Prime Shaq, and without Pau Gasol?

[Mr. Jabbar]

What's Kobe's playoffs record without Prime Shaq, and without Pau Gasol?

Why don't you throw adam morrison while you're at it :facepalm

[The Macho Man]

What's Kobe's playoffs record without Prime Shaq, and without Pau Gasol?

4-8

All games coming against the stacked Suns with his team being Kwame, Smush, Luke Walton and Lamar.

:bowdown:

[coin24]

What's Kobe's playoffs record without Prime Shaq, and without Pau Gasol?

What's Lebrons finals record without wade and bosh saving his ass..
Goat piggybacker. Miami would make the finals this season with Lebron on the bench. MVP:lol :facepalm

[longtime lurker]

What's Kobe's playoffs record without Prime Shaq, and without Pau Gasol?

I love how Pau Gasol is somehow equal to prime Shaq. I'm convinced that this site is infested by idiots

[coin24]

I love how Pau Gasol is somehow equal to prime Shaq. I'm convinced that this site is infested by idiots

Apparently Bynum averaging 8 and 6 was a dominant big also:lol
If that's being carried, what the fu*k do you call teaming up with wade and bosh:roll:

[Cali Syndicate]

What's Lebrons finals record without wade and bosh saving his ass..

Swap out 22 year old Lebron with 22 year old Kobe on the 07 Cavs. Do the Cavs still make the finals?

[Qwertyazerty]

Op record trying to add 4+4+4+1 is 0-1 (considering he didn't try several times). Meanwhile not so far from him, a 0-13 kobeless PO performer has 2 rings, a World championship tittle, 2 European championship tittles, 2 silver olympic medals and earns millions laughing at you people treating him like garbage for leading a franchise to its first PO, repeating twice but not winning a game.

And BTW he played very well yesterday, Lakers bigs were better than Spurs.

[coin24]

Swap out 22 year old Lebron with 22 year old Kobe on the 07 Cavs. Do the Cavs still make the finals?

Easily.

East playoffs? Lol good one:lol

[Lebron23]

Swap out 22 year old Lebron with 22 year old Kobe on the 07 Cavs. Do the Cavs still make the finals?


Wizards and the Nets would have beaten them in the preliminary rounds. 2008-2011 Pau Gasol was a 19/11 big man. Gasol is way better than Mo Williams.

[Mrofir]

Easily.

East playoffs? Lol good one:lol

keep doing your job, great lord Kobe is very happy with you

[ripthekik]

Swap out 22 year old Lebron with 22 year old Kobe on the 07 Cavs. Do the Cavs still make the finals?
of course.. it's the eastern playoffs, where you get series agaisnt the bucks, 76ers, hawks, etc
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[White Mamba]

0-17, and counting

:lol
:roll: :roll: :bowdown: :bowdown: :applause: :applause:

[White Mamba]

Why don't you throw adam morrison while you're at it :facepalm
:roll: :roll: :roll: :applause:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Its crazy Pau was seen as a loser who was really nothing in memphis and now ppl see him as a winner and hall of fame lock:lol

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Why do Laker fans hate Gasol? I don't get it. Dude was a big part of 2 championships for your team.

[Qwertyazerty]

Why do Laker fans hate Gasol? I don't get it. Dude was a big part of 2 championships for your team.

No Laker fans but Kobe fans... and not the best among them.

[Yankstar]

Why do Laker fans hate Gasol? I don't get it. Dude was a big part of 2 championships for your team.

You see we are in a difficult position. We are not doing well as a team but this is not kobes fault. Hence it must be someone else, dantonu and Nash are the obvious under performers and so was pre all stars break Dwight and gasol up to a month or so ago. We blame who we see. Kobe has Vern the only consist ant performer through out the year. The least injured, the most mentally tough, the most focused. He was the only chances we have of leaving the first round. He gave his body playing crazy minutes to fuel pour trip to the finals. You simply cannot blame him after all he has given up.

[STATUTORY]

Why do Laker fans hate Gasol? I don't get it. Dude was a big part of 2 championships for your team.
it ain't hate to call a spade a spade

[Mr. Jabbar]

Its crazy Pau was seen as a loser who was really nothing in memphis and now ppl see him as a winner and hall of fame lock:lol

"The Kobe effect" :bowdown: :bowdown:

[AlphaWolf24]

The team is "stacked" because it has LeBron James who is far and away the best player in the league. There hasn't been this big a gap between the best and 2nd best player since Prime Shaq and we all know how that went. That isn't even a knock on Durant either as he is very good and put up a historic year of his own. LeBron is just that good.

Prime LeBron is a top 5 player all-time.

Wade and Bosh arn't superstars either. I'm confident if you take Wade off the Heat and put Ray Allen in there the team still wins 60+ games and doesn't miss a beat.

Bosh is more important because hes a bigman, but if he was leading his own team he wouldn't be able to make the playoffs. I think he made it like one year his entire tenure in Toronto? Hes an OK all-star.

If you take LeBron off the team there is 0% chance of a ring. LeBrons dominance is why the Heat are so dominant. The cast and overall system/culture that Riley has installed will make them a dynasty.


Thou was the 4th month of April 2013...

[kurple]

cant wait for Jabbar to realize he's wasted all this time on defending a guy that doesnt even know he exists

[FiveRings]

What's Kobe's playoffs record without Prime Shaq, and without Pau Gasol?
lol so cocky about Bron making it to the Finals with the Cavs... and being swept in those Finals. You know who else made the Finals in the East with a not-so-amazing supporting cast? Iverson and Dwight. And guess what? Neither of them were swept in their Finals like Lebron was. Surely Kobe never would have made the Finals if drafted in the East. I guess by your logic Iverson and Dwight both > Bron and Kobe.

Instead of bragging about a team of Lebron's that he got swept in the Finals with, let's look at these players teams that actually won.

Lebron= Kobe
Bosh= Gasol
Wade= Odom?

Wait a minute.. Has Kobe's career really shown us that he needs more help than Bron to win? Are you telling me you'd rather have Odom on your team than Dwyane freaking Wade?

:coleman:

[Lebron23]

lol so cocky about Bron making it to the Finals with the Cavs... and being swept in those Finals. You know who else made the Finals in the East with a not-so-amazing supporting cast? Iverson and Dwight. And guess what? Neither of them were swept in their Finals like Lebron was. Surely Kobe never would have made the Finals if drafted in the East. I guess by your logic Iverson and Dwight both > Bron and Kobe.

Instead of bragging about a team of Lebron's that he got swept in the Finals with, let's look at these players teams that actually won.

Lebron= Kobe
Bosh= Gasol
Wade= Odom?

Wait a minute.. Has Kobe's career really shown us that he needs more help than Bron to win? Are you telling me you'd rather have Odom on your team than Dwyane freaking Wade?

:coleman:

I'd take Prime Shaq over Bosh and Wade. Dude is the most dominant Finals performer of all time.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

2006 Washington Wizards (42-40)
2007 Washington Wizards (41-41)
2007 New Jersey Nets (41-41)
2007 Detroit Pistons (53-29)
2008 Washington Wizards (43-39)
2009 Detroit Pistons (39-43)
2009 Atlanta Hawks (47-35)
2010 Chicago Bulls (41-41)


There isn't an all star in this league incapable of duplicating LeBron's "success" with the Cavs. Those teams dont even make the playoffs in the West.

Any superstar in league history when paired with a top defensive, top rebounding and top three point shooting supporting cast is capable of duplicating what Lebron accomplished given the competition with the Cavs. People with agendas love to make his teammates look worse than they are just to prop up LeBron. The team, especially in 2010 perfectly complimented his talents or any superstar wing for that matter.

Well said :oldlol:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8084337&postcount=61

[FiveRings]

Id' take Prime Shaq over Bosh and Wade. Dude is the most dominant Finals performer of all time.
So what you're telling me is that you agree Lebron's rings on the Heat only mean as much as Kobe and Shaq's rings together on the Lakers, because both teams were stacked as f**k and it was just unfair to the rest of the league?

By the way, I don't know if you got a chance to watch any basketball from 08-10. If you had been watching those years, you'd have seen that Kobe made the Finals three straight years with no Shaq, and no top ten player in the league on his team. You are forgiven because you probably weren't watching ball those years, or you wouldn't be acting like Kobe needed a prime Shaq since he made three straight Finals without him.

I'm not saying Lebron needs another FMVP next to him in Wade to win. I don't think he does. It's just sad that he decided to team up with the best SG and best PF in his conference, and that he didn't care to prove that he could win with similar help to Kobe's last two rings. He wanted guaranteed championships and he got them.

[tpols]

I'd take Prime Shaq over Bosh and Wade. Dude is the most dominant Finals performer of all time.
He faced some of the weakest front courts of all time in the finals lol..

[daj0264]

He faced some of the weakest front courts of all time in the finals lol..


so? lebron faced ibaka last year.

[tpols]

so? lebron faced ibaka last year.
LeBron isn't a center lol.. He faced Kevin Durant head to head actually. And destroyed him.

Shaq faced Jason Collins head to head..

[Yao Ming's Foot]

LeBron isn't a center lol.. He faced Kevin Durant head to head actually. And destroyed him.

Shaq faced Jason Collins head to head..

Durant had 30 and 6 on 55% shooting... "destroyed" :oldlol:

[Solefade]

Durant had 30 and 6 on 55% shooting... "destroyed" :oldlol:

LeBron didn't destroy Durant but he did show that he was head and shoulders better than him on both ends of the floor while also carrying an injured D.Wade and Chris Bosh

^People totally disregard the fact that D.Wade played inefficient basketball and would consistently have single digit points at halftime (because of his injury) especially after the Pacers series.

[STATUTORY]

LeBron didn't destroy Durant but he did show that he was head and shoulders better than him on both ends of the floor while also carrying an injured D.Wade and Chris Bosh

^People totally disregard the fact that D.Wade played inefficient basketball and would consistently have single digit points at halftime (because of his injury) especially after the Pacers series.

why does Lebron fans always shit on his teammates when Lebron carpetbagged his way to Miami because he knew they were the goods?

[tpols]

Durant had 30 and 6 on 55% shooting... "destroyed" :oldlol:
Guess you didn't watch the series then..

[Yao Ming's Foot]

LeBron didn't destroy Durant but he did show that he was head and shoulders better than him on both ends of the floor while also carrying an injured D.Wade and Chris Bosh

^People totally disregard the fact that D.Wade played inefficient basketball and would consistently have single digit points at halftime (because of his injury) especially after the Pacers series.

No, thats a myth.

I do know that Mike Miller and friends shot some absurd percentages from 3 point land though. :confusedshrug:

[talkingconch]

lebrick rings without all star hof's: 0