When is the last time someone was CLEARLY

[Joey3000]

When was the last time someone was CLEARLY the best in the league?

Lebron is CLEARLY the best in the business.

wait, lets make this clear. I'm a Knicks Fan. Been a Knicks fan since I was a kid. Raised in NY and everything.

Back to business. Lebron is CLEARLY the best in the business. Who else has been the best in the league, no debating?

And yes, this is a Kobe fan boy attack threat. why? Because yall are doing everything to attack LBJ because it was always arguable whether Kobe was best in the league at any time in his carear.

He has been in the mix with Shaq, Lebron, Wade, Dirk, Nash, T-mac, Dancan, KG etc.

Who is Lebron in the mix with this year? Durant is an honorable mention, but he is not as good as LBJ at this point in most peoples eyes.

[LikeABosh]

Shaq? During the three peat he was the clear best

[shady6121]

Shaq

[Budadiiii]

Kobe right now

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Shaq.

[DuMa]

Shaq, before him. Jordan.

These were the undisputed best players of the league

[elementally morale]

2006 Kobe
2000 Shaq
1989-1997 Jordan
1994-95 Hakeem
1986-1988 Magic
1982-1984 Bird
1975-1979 Kareem

[Joey3000]

Yeah I aint gunna front, Shaq was an animal.

Jordan ofcourse,

Magic? I'm iffy on that one.

Magic, Bird, Kareem,an arguement can be made

[Smoke117]

Shaq

[pegasus]

Lebron has yet to CLEARLY take over a game and win it for his team this season. All of the other superstars had to do it several times already. And don't say shit like "He's so good, he doesn't need to take over at the end of games". Because then why did they lose the games they lost, and why did they need several clutch baskets from Ray and Bosh to win some of the close games?

What makes everybody so sure that he is the best? He was the best in the playoffs last year, until the finals where he shot less than 20% from outside the paint. Since then he hasn't been CLEARLY the best at anything other than piling up stats on a super stacked team where everything comes so easy.

Heck, right now it's not even clear who's the best player on his own team. Wade has outplayed him for at least a month now.

[vert48]

Shaq? During the three peat he was the clear bestThen why did he only win 1 MVP?

[Dave3]

Then why did he only win 1 MVP?
I assume you're asking that question only specific to that poster right?

[Legends66NBA7]

Then why did he only win 1 MVP?

Voter bias ?

Definitely should have won about 3-4 MVP's.

[arifgokcen]

Shaq and Jordan.There have always been a debate about whether kobe is the best or not.Duncan has always beeen in discussion with kobe but never regarded as best.

[vert48]

To me, the way to decide is whether every GM in the league would trade any player on their team straight across, if money were not an issue.

The only players to meet this criteria over the past 40 years are:
Kareem
Bird/Magic (they are one)
Jordan
Shaq
LeBron

[SilkkTheShocker]

Then why did he only win 1 MVP?

It didn't help that missed a good amount of games every season

[SilkkTheShocker]

2006 Kobe
2000 Shaq
1989-1997 Jordan
1994-95 Hakeem
1986-1988 Magic
1982-1984 Bird
1975-1979 Kareem

Would take 06 Wade over 06 Kobe anyday.

[Legends66NBA7]

To me, the way to decide is whether every GM in the league would trade any player on their team straight across, if money were not an issue.

The only players to meet this criteria over the past 40 years are:
Kareem
Bird/Magic (they are one)
Jordan
Shaq
LeBron

Would Hakeem qualify too ?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Then why did he only win 1 MVP?
:facepalm

[Rysio]

2000-2013 kobe

[Joey3000]

Lebron has yet to CLEARLY take over a game and win it for his team this season. All of the other superstars had to do it several times already. And don't say shit like "He's so good, he doesn't need to take over at the end of games". Because then why did they lose the games they lost, and why did they need several clutch baskets from Ray and Bosh to win some of the close games?

What makes everybody so sure that he is the best? He was the best in the playoffs last year, until the finals where he shot less than 20% from outside the paint. Since then he hasn't been CLEARLY the best at anything other than piling up stats on a super stacked team where everything comes so easy.

Heck, right now it's not even clear who's the best player on his own team. Wade has outplayed him for at least a month now.


So ur saying Lebron is not the best in the league right now?

who is in his class as of right now?

[elementally morale]

To me, the way to decide is whether every GM in the league would trade any player on their team straight across, if money were not an issue.

The only players to meet this criteria over the past 40 years are:
Kareem
Bird/Magic (they are one)
Jordan
Shaq
LeBron

Which year?

Also, to me it comes down to this: IF you want to win a 7 game series starting tomorrow, who would you NOT trade no matter what?

2000 Shaq is such a player. 2013 LeBron? I don't know. I'm biased.

[vert48]

Would Hakeem qualify too ?No, Hakeem would not (for me). Would the Jazz have traded Malone for Hakeem? I doubt it.

Unquestionably best in the league since 1970:
Kareem
Bird/Magic (they are one)
Jordan
Shaq
LeBron

These are the best players that overlapped that group:
Moses
Barkley
Hakeem
Malone
Duncan
Kobe

[Rysio]

So ur saying Lebron is not the best in the league right now?

who is in his class as of right now?
since the all star break kobe been by far the best player in the league its not even close. your just deluded by the stat padded box scores if you think lebrick is even close to mamba right now.

[cotdt]

Against an equally competitive team, Lebron will choke away important games down the stretch. Do you really want him above any other historical player in a 7-game series?

[vert48]

Would take 06 Wade over 06 Kobe anyday.
Yeah, me too, but not every GM in the league would agree on that.

[The Real JW]

2009-13: LeBron
2006-08: Kobe
2004-05: Garnett
1999-03: Shaq
1996-98: Jordan
1994-95: Hakeem
1988-93: Jordan
1980s: Bird and Magic

Bolded are the clearly beast, imo.

[Legends66NBA7]

2009-13: LeBron
2006-08: Kobe
2004-05: Garnett
1999-03: Shaq
1996-98: Jordan
1994-95: Hakeem
1988-93: Jordan
1980s: Bird and Magic

Bolded are the clearly beast, imo.

Disagree with Shaq 99-03, unless you meant 99-02.

Duncan has 03.

[LBJ 23]

So ur saying Lebron is not the best in the league right now?

who is in his class as of right now?


Don't bother, it's Pegasus. Like with ripthekik, you don't quote their posts cuz it's pointless.

Just ignore...

[SilkkTheShocker]

2009-13: LeBron
2006-08: Kobe
2004-05: Garnett
1999-03: Shaq
1996-98: Jordan
1994-95: Hakeem
1988-93: Jordan
1980s: Bird and Magic

Bolded are the clearly beast, imo.

I think Duncan was the best in 03, 05, and 07.

[Rysio]

Would take 06 Wade over 06 Kobe anyday.
agreed. i would also take 92 drexler over 92 jordan anyday.

[Ne 1]

When was the last time someone was CLEARLY the best in the league? Probably Shaq during the Lakers 3-peat.


Lebron is CLEARLY the best in the business. I agree, these last two years he' easily been the best player in the league and very few people would say otherwise. Although not quite as dominant as Shaq was, he's approached that level.





And yes, this is a Kobe fan boy attack threat. why? Because yall are doing everything to attack LBJ because it was always arguable whether Kobe was best in the league at any time in his carear. Now this just makes you come off as an insecure LeBron fan boy and/or Kobe hater.


He has been in the mix with Shaq, Lebron, Wade, Dirk, Nash, T-mac, Dancan, KG etc. True, but I don't think many people would argue or disagree that Kobe was the best player in the league from 2006-2008.

[/QUOTE]Who is Lebron in the mix with this year? Durant is an honorable mention, but he is not as good as LBJ at this point in most peoples eyes.[/QUOTE] Actually right now and since the All-Star break, Kobe is indeed in the mix and if he's not better than James, he's the closest one. Not for the whole year but just talking about right now and since the All-Star break he's right there.

[Joey3000]

since the all star break kobe been by far the best player in the league its not even close. your just deluded by the stat padded box scores if you think lebrick is even close to mamba right now.


Kobe is better than Lebron and its not even close? Cuz he beat a few sub .500 teams? Never mind Lebron leading his team to the best record in the league and having the longest winning streak this year while leading his team in most stat categories?

R u on Crack? :biggums:

[Joey3000]

And what is this week "Since allstar break" crap? We are talking bout best player in the league, not best player for stretches.

The whole season makes the year. Kobe doesnt even know if Utah will let him into the playoffs right now.

[elementally morale]

And what is this week "Since allstar break" crap? We are talking bout best player in the league, not best player for stretches.

The whole season makes the year. Kobe doesnt even know if Utah will let him into the playoffs right now.

In the other thread you just said not even 10 minutes ago: "Don't give me circumstances. right here, right now." Well... if a 7 game series started today, I would not trade Kobe for LeBron. That's right here, right now.

For a whole year? I don't know about that. But for a series right now? I'm not trading Kobe for anyone.

[SwayDizzle]

What the hell? Kobe is the last player to clearly be the best in the league, 08-10. Bronze is the best from 11-present

[Ne 1]

Would take 06 Wade over 06 Kobe anyday.
In that case would you also take '08 Pierce over '08 Kobe?

[vert48]

Clearly the best cannot be for a game, week, month or even a season in my opinion. It needs to be for at least a couple of seasons, so that ANY GM would trade any player straight across if money/cap were not involved.

As great as Kobe is, I do not think he was ever in that position. LeBron was so good immediately, that Kobe never really had his own time. Would the Lakers have traded Kobe for LeBron straight across from 2005-2009? Absolutely.

[SilkkTheShocker]

In that case would you also take '08 Pierce over '08 Kobe?


No. I believe 08 Kobe was him at the peak of his prime, even if they lost in the Finals.

[arifgokcen]

Kobe is better than Lebron and its not even close? Cuz he beat a few sub .500 teams? Never mind Lebron leading his team to the best record in the league and having the longest winning streak this year while leading his team in most stat categories?

R u on Crack? :biggums:
Dude they are trolls you just ignore them or you are gonna have a problem.They will attack you like ants.Kennethgriffin/rysio/riphtetik.

Just ignore these fools because you are not going to have a reasonable conversation with them.

That said kobe has never been regarded as consensus best player in his career 2006-2008 or before that.Because i have been around nba forums back then too.Especially after wade 2006 and duncan 2007 rings and lebron absolute stat stuffing starting from 2006-? kobe has never been regarded as clear cut best player.He has always been in discussion and was often the first name that came up during the discussion.Especially after lebron got the scoring title and averaged 30-8-7 lebron took over #1 spot again arguably not like now.

[elementally morale]

Clearly the best cannot be for a game, week, month or even a season in my opinion. It needs to be for at least a couple of seasons, so that ANY GM would trade any player straight across if money/cap were not involved.

If so, LeBron now and before him, Shaq.



As great as Kobe is, I do not think he was ever in that position. LeBron was so good immediately, that Kobe never really had his own time. Would the Lakers have traded Kobe for LeBron straight across from 2005-2009? Absolutely.

Due to age and marketability at the time, maybe. I'm not sure though. And based on pure basketball results? Would you have traded 2006 Kobe for 2006 LeBron? I knoe for sure I wouldn't have.

[arifgokcen]

No. I believe 08 Kobe was him at the peak of his prime, even if they lost in the Finals.
Dude there has always been many threads articles et. that lebron has taken over as the best player in the game.You can just check the pages around 2000s.
You can see many threads.Dont forget lebron started the season averaging 31-8-8 and win games by himself many times.

Lebron even back in 2006 has been argued as best player and MVP until the last month of the league.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Dude there has always been many threads articles et. that lebron has taken over as the best player in the game.You can just check the pages around 2000s.
You can see many threads.Dont forget lebron started the season averaging 31-8-8 and win games by himself many times.

Lebron even back in 2006 has been argued as best player and MVP until the last month of the league.
I never said Kobe was the best player in 08

99-02 - Shaq
03- Duncan
04- Garnett
05- Duncan
06- Wade
07 Duncan
08 Lebron
09- LeBron
10- Lebron
11- Dirk
12- Lebron

[elementally morale]

^ You have lots of red bars.

[Rysio]

Kobe is better than Lebron and its not even close? Cuz he beat a few sub .500 teams? Never mind Lebron leading his team to the best record in the league and having the longest winning streak this year while leading his team in most stat categories?

R u on Crack? :biggums:
leading his team to the best record in the weak east playing on the most stacked team of all time yea im so impressed.

and i dont care what stat padding lebrick does to lead his team in most categories its not important the game is not 1 on 5 only internet stat geeks get excited when this clown is stealing rebounds from his teammates padding assist numbers passing up wide open shots and cherry picking shots to save fg% just to make dumb fans think he's 1 man army at it again like he was a few years in clevleland. :no:

thank god there's still some educated bball fans like my self who see right through this fraud. :applause:

[talkingconch]

To me, the way to decide is whether every GM in the league would trade any player on their team straight across, if money were not an issue.

The only players to meet this criteria over the past 40 years are:
Kareem
Bird/Magic (they are one)
Jordan
Shaq
LeBron
No.

[talkingconch]

I never said Kobe was the best player in 08

99-02 - Shaq
03- Duncan
04- Garnett
05- Duncan
06- Wade
07 Duncan
08 Lebron
09- LeBron
10- Lebron
11- Dirk
12- Lebron

no one takes you seriously, you go against all common nba knowledge so i dont even know why you bother posting, you are ignored by everyone other than those looking to waste some time to argue with u lol

[Joey3000]

leading his team to the best record in the weak east playing on the most stacked team of all time yea im so impressed.

and i dont care what stat padding lebrick does to lead his team in most categories its not important the game is not 1 on 5 only internet stat geeks get excited when this clown is stealing rebounds from his teammates padding assist numbers passing up wide open shots and cherry picking shots to save fg% just to make dumb fans think he's 1 man army at it again like he was a few years in clevleland. :no:

thank god there's still some educated bball fans like my self who see right through this fraud. :applause:

So ur saying that kobe beating sub .500 teams while trying to make the 8th spot puts him in the same breath as LBJ destroying every team in his path?

[Orlando Magic]

To me, the way to decide is whether every GM in the league would trade any player on their team straight across, if money were not an issue.

The only players to meet this criteria over the past 40 years are:
Kareem
Bird/Magic (they are one)
Jordan
Shaq
LeBron

Great post and 100% spot on.

[Ne 1]

I never said Kobe was the best player in 08

99-02 - Shaq
03- Duncan
04- Garnett
05- Duncan
06- Kobe
07- Kobe
08- Kobe
09- Lebron
10- Lebron
11- Dirk
12- Lebron
Fixed. And if you have Wade over Kobe in '06 then you should have Kobe over LeBron on '09 and '10.

[Micku]

In the 80s, even though Bird and Magic were consider the best players of the 80s, they had a lot of competition.

In the early 80s, Kareem, Moses Malone, and Dr. J were probably the best players. In the mid-late 80s, then you had Bird, Magic, Kareem (for 1985), and Jordan. Even though Magic and Bird represent the 80s, they weren't clearly the best. You can argue either or depending on what year.

I do think Kobe is considered to be the best in 06-07 despite him playing with a crappy team. I don't think it wasn't as clear as LeBron is right now. 08 and beyond it was less clear, and LeBron entered his prime in 09.

[Ne 1]

So ur saying that kobe beating sub .500 teams while trying to make the 8th spot puts him in the same breath as LBJ destroying every team in his path?
How about when Kobe was winning back to back championships while prime LeBron was losing with home court advantage in the playoffs 3 straight years? What your saying is that Lebron is only now better than past his prime, 34 years old 17th year in the league Kobe, but when Kobe was still in his prime and at the tail end of his prime, he was the better player using your logic.

[NumberSix]

Shaq was the last clear cut best.

Between Shaq and LeBron, there were some years where it was arguable between Duncan, LeBron, Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, etc. then LeBron seperated himself.

[elementally morale]

using your logic.

Euphemism.

[vert48]

If so, LeBron now and before him, Shaq.




Due to age and marketability at the time, maybe. I'm not sure though. And based on pure basketball results? Would you have traded 2006 Kobe for 2006 LeBron? I knoe for sure I wouldn't have.Since I think you have to look at it for at least two years, then yes, I would trade Kobe for LeBron during any two year period during which Kobe may have been considered the best player in the NBA:
05-07
06-08
07-09
08-10
09-11
10-12
11-13
Today

[vert48]

Shaq was the last clear cut best.

Between Shaq and LeBron, there were some years where it was arguable between Duncan, LeBron, Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, etc. then LeBron seperated himself.I agree.

[elementally morale]

Since I think you have to look at it for at least two years, then yes, I would trade Kobe for LeBron during any two year period during which Kobe may have been considered the best player in the NBA:
05-07
06-08
07-09
08-10
09-11
10-12
11-13
Today

Fair enough. These are 3 year intervals, but I have nothing against it. You can build your case well. I would not have traded Kobe for Lebron until 2009. And this year I would not trade him for LeBron for the next 2 years.

But I'm biased and I know that.

[vert48]

Fair enough. These are 3 year intervals, but I have nothing against it. You can build your case well. I would not have traded Kobe for Lebron until 2009. And this year I would not trade him for LeBron for the next 2 years.

But I'm biased and I know that.Yeah, on the years, I was doing from the beginning of one season to the end of the next.

By the way, I am a huge Laker fan, and grew up with season tickets through the 70's and 80's.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Dude they are trolls you just ignore them or you are gonna have a problem.They will attack you like ants.Kennethgriffin/rysio/riphtetik.

Just ignore these fools because you are not going to have a reasonable conversation with them.

That said kobe has never been regarded as consensus best player in his career 2006-2008 or before that.Because i have been around nba forums back then too.Especially after wade 2006 and duncan 2007 rings and lebron absolute stat stuffing starting from 2006-? kobe has never been regarded as clear cut best player.He has always been in discussion and was often the first name that came up during the discussion.Especially after lebron got the scoring title and averaged 30-8-7 lebron took over #1 spot again arguably not like now.
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=185051

All the players regarded him as the best player.

[Nash]

Lebron
Shaq
Jordan

Last 3.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Kobe @ 34 still the best in the league, makes you appreciate his greatness even more. Lebron is a close second though, he has shined alongside his clutch teammates.

[peejay89]

agreed. i would also take 92 drexler over 92 jordan anyday.

No sane person would take 92 Clyde Drexler over Michael Jordan. This attempt to troll is just straight up ridiculous.

[Joey3000]

How about when Kobe was winning back to back championships while prime LeBron was losing with home court advantage in the playoffs 3 straight years? What your saying is that Lebron is only now better than past his prime, 34 years old 17th year in the league Kobe, but when Kobe was still in his prime and at the tail end of his prime, he was the better player using your logic.


:oldlol: U sound butt hurt.

Cavs Lebron was not in his prime.

[RRR3]

Lebron has yet to CLEARLY take over a game and win it for his team this season. All of the other superstars had to do it several times already. And don't say shit like "He's so good, he doesn't need to take over at the end of games". Because then why did they lose the games they lost, and why did they need several clutch baskets from Ray and Bosh to win some of the close games?

What makes everybody so sure that he is the best? He was the best in the playoffs last year, until the finals where he shot less than 20% from outside the paint. Since then he hasn't been CLEARLY the best at anything other than piling up stats on a super stacked team where everything comes so easy.

Heck, right now it's not even clear who's the best player on his own team. Wade has outplayed him for at least a month now.
Words cannot describe how much is wrong with this post.

[tmacattack33]

Since Shaq. A

And Lebron himself last year.

[Legends66NBA7]

:oldlol: U sound butt hurt.

Cavs Lebron was not in his prime.

:biggums: :wtf:

[Joey3000]

:biggums: :wtf:

If you think Cavs Lebron was better than this smarter more clutch Lebron u r crazy

[Legends66NBA7]

If you think Cavs Lebron was better than this smarter more clutch Lebron u r crazy

Don't twist it into anything I didn't say.

You said James wasn't in his prime with the Cavs. LeBron's prime does start with the Cavs, no question about it. 2005-06 is start of his prime. Even if were going to use the age argument against him, how 08-10 LeBron's aren't part of his prime makes no sense.

[Rasheed1]

Originally Posted by pegasus
Lebron has yet to CLEARLY take over a game and win it for his team this season. All of the other superstars had to do it several times already. And don't say shit like "He's so good, he doesn't need to take over at the end of games". Because then why did they lose the games they lost, and why did they need several clutch baskets from Ray and Bosh to win some of the close games?


2012 Game 6 Boston

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-VzBeOrdAg

Lebron
Shaq
Mj

[red1]

pegahoe still a hoe

[SHAQisGOAT]

Last one before LeBron was Shaq, before that Jordan, and before it was Bird.


Gotta say I love Magic but people get too caught up in Bird vs Magic.
Magic played and LA and he's black in a majorly black sport, his hype grew bigger probably, but when both were healthy Bird was clearly the better overall player, people who know their stuff know that, and during those years Bird was always above in MVP voting except for one year.
Plus Bird was the man from the start, Magic had a top 3 GOAT close to his prime and a team that was already really good and established.

[guy]

leading his team to the best record in the weak east playing on the most stacked team of all time yea im so impressed.

and i dont care what stat padding lebrick does to lead his team in most categories its not important the game is not 1 on 5 only internet stat geeks get excited when this clown is stealing rebounds from his teammates padding assist numbers passing up wide open shots and cherry picking shots to save fg% just to make dumb fans think he's 1 man army at it again like he was a few years in clevleland. :no:

thank god there's still some educated bball fans like my self who see right through this fraud. :applause:

I dislike both Lebron and Kobe, but since they are discussed so much, I put my two cents in and find myself defending Lebron alot here.

This idea that Lebron's FG% is only as high as it is because he's cherry picking his shots is hilariously stupid :oldlol: . First of all, if he was all about stat padding, wouldn't it look better to lower the efficiency a bit and lead the league in scoring? He probably could've easily done that if he took 1 or 2 more shots per game for the last 4 seasons. Second, he still takes more shots per game then anyone in the league other then Kobe, Westbrook, and Melo (him and Durant are tied). Third, what do you expect him to do? He takes 18 shots per game, 19 shots per game last year when he also had super-efficiency, and he only took 20 shots per game in his last year in Cleveland. So its not like he's so far off from his Cleveland, and plus, shouldn't you expect him to take less and better shots when he gets to play with better teammates? So we are going to blame him for not taking stupid shots anyway and actually taking advantage of the fact that he has better teammates, which both his high FG% and apg indicates? And this is all leading his team to winning and looking like by far the best team in the league. It would be one thing if they were losing and this was going on, but its not. So what the hell are you bitching about? If you're going to hate, hate on something that makes sense.

[pegasus]

2012 Game 6 Boston

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-VzBeOrdAg

Lebron
Shaq
Mj

I said "THIS SEASON". Isn't that what we are discussing? Whether Lebron is CLEARLY the best player right now? Find video footage of that, other than a bunch of ESPN-made "historic" statlines.

[MisterAmazing]

Shaq? During the three peat he was the clear best

this

[tmacattack33]

Lebron has yet to CLEARLY take over a game and win it for his team this season. All of the other superstars had to do it several times already. And don't say shit like "He's so good, he doesn't need to take over at the end of games". Because then why did they lose the games they lost, and why did they need several clutch baskets from Ray and Bosh to win some of the close games?

What makes everybody so sure that he is the best? He was the best in the playoffs last year, until the finals where he shot less than 20% from outside the paint. Since then he hasn't been CLEARLY the best at anything other than piling up stats on a super stacked team where everything comes so easy.

Heck, right now it's not even clear who's the best player on his own team. Wade has outplayed him for at least a month now.

Vs Sacramento two weeks ago ...20 pts + 7 assists in last 5 min of 4th Quarter, OT, and 2nd OT. 11 points + 2 assists in second OT.

[PJR]

Last two decades.

Jordan
Shaq
LeBron

[Dave3]

I said "THIS SEASON". Isn't that what we are discussing? Whether Lebron is CLEARLY the best player right now? Find video footage of that, other than a bunch of ESPN-made "historic" statlines.
I assume you have an excuse for why the Sacramento game doesn't count?

[SacJB Shady]

Gilbert Arenas was the best in his prime

[NLZ]

LeBron might be better now, but he'll never be better than Kobe all-time, so who cares? I don't think anyone enjoys watching LeBron as much as they enjoy watching Kobe Bryant.
Why do fans of LeBron (in prime) still make threads directed at a 35 year old?

[guy]

LeBron might be better now, but he'll never be better than Kobe all-time, so who cares? I don't think anyone enjoys watching LeBron as much as they enjoy watching Kobe Bryant.
Why do fans of LeBron (in prime) still make threads directed at a 35 year old?

Why is that?

[Lebron23]

LeBron might be better now, but he'll never be better than Kobe all-time, so who cares? I don't think anyone enjoys watching LeBron as much as they enjoy watching Kobe Bryant.
Why do fans of LeBron (in prime) still make threads directed at a 35 year old?


LeBron is going to have more points, more rebounds, more assists, more regular season MVP's, and more finals MVP's than Kobe at the end of his career. Kobe is currently a top 9 player of all time. LBJ might surpass him this season if he wins his 2nd NBA Finals MVP.

[NLZ]

I meant better "player" not "career", he'll never be a better player (in my personal opinion).

[chosen_one6]

I meant better "player" not "career", he'll never be a better player (in my personal opinion).

Exactly.

Many would say LeBron is already a better player than Kobe ever was.

What does Kobe do on a basketball court that LeBron doesn't? Take contested jumpshots. That's the only thing I can think of. Oh, and he has better moves in the post (although I'd place a bet on LeBron becoming better in that too in the near future)

LeBron is the closest thing you can get to a complete player in basketball. He's smart, his shot selection is great, he can shoot, he can rebound, he can facilitate, he can guard all 5 positions, he hustles, and he's a team first guy.

I'm not saying Kobe doesn't do any of those things, because he does. What am I saying though, is that LeBron does all of those things better except shooting the ball.

[NLZ]

Exactly.

Many would say LeBron is already a better player than Kobe ever was.

What does Kobe do on a basketball court that LeBron doesn't? Take contested jumpshots. That's the only thing I can think of. Oh, and he has better moves in the post (although I'd place a bet on LeBron becoming better in that too in the near future)

LeBron is the closest thing you can get to a complete player in basketball. He's smart, his shot selection is great, he can shoot, he can rebound, he can facilitate, he can guard all 5 positions, he hustles, and he's a team first guy.

I'm not saying Kobe doesn't do any of those things, because he does. What am I saying though, is that LeBron does all of those things better except shooting the ball.
That's fine, I don't expect 100% to view Kobe or Lebron as the better player.
Everyone has different expectations of a player. Want an incredibly skilled/finesse player that is ruthless and wants to win at all costs while being one of the 3 most enjoyable players of all-time to watch? Kobe.
Want an incredibly generous player that sets you up for wide open shots all-game long while being a freak of nature that will you give 1-2 fast break highlight-reel dunks per game? Lebron.

Also, have you ever seen LeBron rebound? Then Kobe? Kobe is the more educated rebounder. Are people forgetting he's a SG and 3-4 inches shorter? Why do people still say "LeBron is a better rebounder than Kobe?" ? He's not, he just gets more because of his height/where he's positioned.

And no, I don't think Kobe is as good as LeBron currently, LeBron is obviously the best player in basketball right now. I can totally understand why most if not everyone would want LeBron on their team right now over anyone else (me included).

[All Net]

Jordan
Shaq

Of recent memory

[pegasus]

Vs Sacramento two weeks ago ...20 pts + 7 assists in last 5 min of 4th Quarter, OT, and 2nd OT. 11 points + 2 assists in second OT.

I watched that game, and it was mainly because of Wade why they won (and also why almost lost - missed ft's).

Anyways, if you think a game against Sacramento where his teammate played just as well as he did (39/8/7 with 19 for 28 shooting as opposed to Lebron's 40/8/16 with 14 for 23 shooting), CLEARLY makes him the best in the league, then I've got nothing else to say.

Marcus Thornton came off the bench for Sacramento and scored 36 points that night (8-12 from the 3-point line). He is CLEARLY the best 3-point shooter this season AND the best 6th man.:bowdown:

[guy]

Also, have you ever seen LeBron rebound? Then Kobe? Kobe is the more educated rebounder. Are people forgetting he's a SG and 3-4 inches shorter? Why do people still say "LeBron is a better rebounder than Kobe?" ? He's not, he just gets more because of his height/where he's positioned.


Does every single rebound Kobe get have more impact then every single rebound Lebron gets because Kobe is shorter? That point is irrelevant. Its like if I said Hasheem Thabeet is a better scorer, rebounder, defender, and shotblocker then me, who couldn't sniff the NBA, because he's alot bigger and taller. That doesn't change the fact that he's better at all those things.

[tmacattack33]

I watched that game, and it was mainly because of Wade why they won (and also why almost lost - missed ft's).

Anyways, if you think a game against Sacramento where his teammate played just as well as he did (39/8/7 with 19 for 28 shooting as opposed to Lebron's 40/8/16 with 14 for 23 shooting), CLEARLY makes him the best in the league, then I've got nothing else to say.

Marcus Thornton came off the bench for Sacramento and scored 36 points that night (8-12 from the 3-point line). He is CLEARLY the best 3-point shooter this season AND the best 6th man.:bowdown:

*Asks for a game where Lebron dominated

* Someone responds with a game

* Quickly makes up some excuses of why that game didn't count





:applause:

[tmacattack33]

bleh.

[Ne 1]

What does Kobe do on a basketball court that LeBron doesn't?

Kobe has a more polished and refined game. He can score on you offensively in nearly every way possible and do it consistently.

He has the better offensive game, better jumper, better post game, better on ball defense, more clutch, better overall skill set, offensive prowess, game management, maturity, killer instinct, fundamentals, foot work etc. etc. His work ethic, drive, hunger, determination, dedication to the game, desire and will to win is unmatched. Oh, and not to mention he's a 5x champion.

Kobe is pure finesse, skill and technique, the shooting guard version of Duncan. LeBron relies almost solely on his athleticism. His speed, strength, jumping ability are what makes him a great player. But just wait until LeBron reaches his 30s and looses his athleticism. He'll still be a good player, no doubt, but I doubt he'll be the same dominant force. Sort of reminds me of Vince Carter, how he was amazing when he had athleticism and when he got older he wasn't what he used to be.

[pegasus]

*Asks for a game where Lebron dominated

* Someone responds with a game

* Quickly makes up some excuses of why that game didn't count





:applause:

Do you not agree that Wade also dominated that game? So my question to you is, how can he be CLEARLY the best player in the league based on that game when his own teammate was just as good? Try and make up an excuse to ignore that question.

[Ne 1]

Does every single rebound Kobe get have more impact then every single rebound Lebron gets because Kobe is shorter? That point is irrelevant. Its like if I said Hasheem Thabeet is a better scorer, rebounder, defender, and shotblocker then me, who couldn't sniff the NBA, because he's alot bigger and taller. That doesn't change the fact that he's better at all those things.

This is a fair point. But I do think it's rightfully justified if people admire someone who dedicated time to develop their skills and work around their short-comings more than someone who just cannot be stopped because they are 6'8 270+ pound freak of nature with the speed and agility of a 6'3 200 pound point guard.

[tmacattack33]

Do you not agree that Wade also dominated that game? So my question to you is, how can he be CLEARLY the best player in the league based on that game when his own teammate was just as good? Try and make up an excuse to ignore that question.

Yes, because Wade played great in that game, then that means Lebron was not that good in that game.

:confusedshrug:

[guy]

This is a fair point. But I do think it's rightfully justified if people admire someone who dedicated time to develop their skills and work around their short-comings more than someone who just cannot be stopped because they are 6'8 270 pound freak of nature with the speed and agility of a 6'4 200 pound guard.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with what we were discussing.

[Dave3]

Do you not agree that Wade also dominated that game? So my question to you is, how can he be CLEARLY the best player in the league based on that game when his own teammate was just as good? Try and make up an excuse to ignore that question.
You asked for a game where LeBron took over and won it. You were provided with that game. Then you change the criteria to be a game where LeBron dominated and won it AND everyone else also played like crap.

And no Wade wasn't the reason they won. Wade isn't the one who scored or assisted every point in the 2nd overtime and scored 11 of the 15 points in that period. Wade actually missed 2 free throws that could have won the game, while LeBron scored 11 points in 2nd OT and you think Wade is the one who won the game for the Heat. I see no extreme bias there.

[NLZ]

Does every single rebound Kobe get have more impact then every single rebound Lebron gets because Kobe is shorter? That point is irrelevant. Its like if I said Hasheem Thabeet is a better scorer, rebounder, defender, and shotblocker then me, who couldn't sniff the NBA, because he's alot bigger and taller. That doesn't change the fact that he's better at all those things.
You just proved my point :hammerhead:, LeBron goes out of his way to get some rebounds. He also gets them off of FT misses, Kobe doesn't.

[DMAVS41]

2006 Kobe
2000 Shaq
1989-1997 Jordan
1994-95 Hakeem
1986-1988 Magic
1982-1984 Bird
1975-1979 Kareem

I thought Wade was better in 06..."clealry" doesn't fit in that at all.

[Ne 1]

I thought Wade was better in 06..."clealry" doesn't fit in that at all.

And Fred Hickman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hickman) thought Iverson was better in '00. Nothing is ever unanimous. Nobody is ever going to fully agree on something as subjective as sports

[Riley Martin]

Yeah, I think 06 is debatable but I feel like 08 is clearly Kobe's year.

[DCL]

it was god shamgodd

[guy]

You just proved my point :hammerhead:, LeBron goes out of his way to get some rebounds. He also gets them off of FT misses, Kobe doesn't.

How? I was referring to his physical advantages, not his supposed tendency to go out of his way and stuff stats. You're basically discrediting Lebron's strengths over Kobe because of his physical advantages. Thats absolutely stupid to do when it comes to sports, especially in basketball, when physical advantages play such a key role. The fact that you're pointing to that goes to show just how desperate and far-reaching you are to discredit Lebron and prop up Kobe.

[arifgokcen]

You just proved my point :hammerhead:, LeBron goes out of his way to get some rebounds. He also gets them off of FT misses, Kobe doesn't.
Dude i see you are a hater but let me educate you on stats.You dont throw around some kind of claim without ability to back it up.

Lets look at last 5 games where lebron averaged 7.2rpg and total 36 rebounds off those 36 rebounds only two of those came from free throw misses.

He is SF so he is supposed to rebound but only 2 rebounds came from free throw misses.He is a weakside rebounder rarely gets in a position to rebound.He could easily be averaging 10+rpg if he wasnt leaking out in transition every opportunity he got.We saw how capable of a rebounder he is when bosh went down.He outrebounded pacers frontcourt pacers happens to be one of the best rebounding teams in nba.

If you dont believe me you can check play by play.Now lets look at last 10 game streak where he averaged 7.6rpg and only gathered 4 rebounds from free throw misses.So you were saying....

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe @ 34 still the best in the league, makes you appreciate his greatness even more. Lebron is a close second though, he has shined alongside his clutch teammates.

Further proof why Kobe stans are the lowest form of life on the internet. :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

How? I was referring to his physical advantages, not his supposed tendency to go out of his way and stuff stats. You're basically discrediting Lebron's strengths over Kobe because of his physical advantages. Thats absolutely stupid to do when it comes to sports, especially in basketball, when physical advantages play such a key role. The fact that you're pointing to that goes to show just how desperate and far-reaching you are to discredit Lebron and prop up Kobe.

So we should only look at physical advantages and ignore mental advantages, skills, competitiveness and will to win?

[guy]

So we should only look at physical advantages and ignore mental advantages, skills, competitiveness and will to win?

Right. Me saying physical advantages shouldn't be ignored means I'm saying mental advantages and skills should be ignored. :rolleyes:

Are you ****ing serious?

[chosen_one6]

So we should only look at physical advantages and ignore mental advantages, skills, competitiveness and will to win?


Right. Me saying physical advantages shouldn't be ignored means I'm saying mental advantages and skills should be ignored. :rolleyes:

Are you ****ing serious?


Description of Straw Man

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.

:lol

[Ne 1]

Right. Me saying physical advantages shouldn't be ignored means I'm saying mental advantages and skills should be ignored. :rolleyes:

Are you ****ing serious?

That's what you've been implying.

[pegasus]

You asked for a game where LeBron took over and won it. You were provided with that game. Then you change the criteria to be a game where LeBron dominated and won it AND everyone else also played like crap.

And no Wade wasn't the reason they won. Wade isn't the one who scored or assisted every point in the 2nd overtime and scored 11 of the 15 points in that period. Wade actually missed 2 free throws that could have won the game, while LeBron scored 11 points in 2nd OT and you think Wade is the one who won the game for the Heat. I see no extreme bias there.
I'm sorry that Wade's 39/8/7 statline while shooting 68% from the field gets in my way of admitting "Lebron won that game by himself, therefore he is clearly the best in the league". I wish Wade had scored one fewer point, then it could have been considered "playing like crap", because it was that close.

[Dave3]

I'm sorry that Wade's 39/8/7 statline while shooting 68% from the field gets in my way of admitting "Lebron won that game by himself, therefore he is clearly the best in the league". I wish Wade had scored one fewer point, then it could have been considered "playing like crap", because it was that close.
Again, it's what you asked for. And if scoring 11 of 15 points in an overtime period - while assisting the other 2 baskets made - what do you define as winning the game? Did he need to score all 15 of 15 Miami points in the overtime?

[Cali Syndicate]

Then why did he only win 1 MVP?

The same reason Derrick rose has an MVP.

MVP =/= best player in the league.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Lebron these last 2 seasons has clearly been the best(Personally, I'd say the last 4 seasons) I'd also throw Kobe from '06-'08 in there. Before him, 3peat Shaq(at the very least 2000 and 2001, Duncan has a case in '02, though Shaq was the consensus best player at the time) I don't see anyone with a case over Duncan in 2003, though a lot of different players were being brought up in the conversation for best in the league. I'd also say Jordan from '90-'93 and both '96 and '97. Before him, Bird from '84-'86. Hakeem in '94 and '95 as well. It's clear he was better than everyone else, though it wasn't as widely acknowledged the way the other names were.

[pegasus]

Again, it's what you asked for. And if scoring 11 of 15 points in an overtime period - while assisting the other 2 baskets made - what do you define as winning the game? Did he need to score all 15 of 15 Miami points in the overtime?
It's OK, I understand why it's so difficult for you to comprehend what I'm saying. You guys didn't have a problem with Lebron teaming up with another top-5 player and a top-5 PF, so why should you analyze that game the way any unbiased person would do?

[scm5]

A lot of it is timing too.

Between Magic, Bird, and Kareem... during that span there wasn't a clear best out of those three.

However, when MJ came into the league he was clearly the best. Next up was probably Hakeem and then Barkley. Had prime Shaq or Lebron been in the league when MJ was beasting, it's hard to believe MJ would be the clear cut favorite for a lot of those years.

What's most impressive about Shaq is that he played in an era with Kobe and Duncan who are both in the Top 10, and he was clearly the best.

[vert48]

A lot of it is timing too.

Between Magic, Bird, and Kareem... during that span there wasn't a clear best out of those three.

However, when MJ came into the league he was clearly the best. Next up was probably Hakeem and then Barkley. Had prime Shaq or Lebron been in the league when MJ was beasting, it's hard to believe MJ would be the clear cut favorite for a lot of those years.

What's most impressive about Shaq is that he played in an era with Kobe and Duncan who are both in the Top 10, and he was clearly the best.
You are getting your overlaps wrong.
Kareem was the best in the 70's, not the 80's.
Barkley was never clearly the best since he basically played during the entire MJ era.

[dyna]

Shaq

[guy]

That's what you've been implying.

Considering I never said or referred to anything like that, no its not. Point out where I said something where that can be inferred.

[Dave3]

And Fred Hickman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hickman) thought Iverson was better in '00. Nothing is ever unanimous. Nobody is ever going to fully agree on something as subjective as sports
For the record that guy never said anything about Shaq being worse than Iverson, it was just an MVP vote, not best player vote.


But Kobe was definitely the best player in 2008 and very strong arguments in 2006 and 2007. But for 2008 I don't think there can be an argument.

[scm5]

You are getting your overlaps wrong.
Kareem was the best in the 70's, not the 80's.
Barkley was never clearly the best since he basically played during the entire MJ era.

No,

I know Kareem was the best in the 70's but he was also right there w/ Magic and Bird in the 80's.

As for Barkley, I know he was never the best in the league, I was saying that during MJ's time, his two main competitors to being the best in the league were Hakeem and Barkley.

[LBJ 23]

He has the better offensive game, better jumper, better post game, better on ball defense, more clutch, better overall skill set, offensive prowess, game management, maturity, killer instinct, fundamentals, foot work etc. etc.



Please explain to me how Kobe has better game management and maturity? Is it mature to talk shit about your teammates to the media? Yes, Lebron danced and did childish things but he never threw his teammates under the bus when things weren't going as planned. And he played with some real scrubs throughout his career. But you never heard him say sh!t about his teammates nor his team as a whole. That's mature for me, cuz you know, that's actually what impacts the way your team plays, not dancing or singing along the sidelines. And talking sh!t about your teammates to the media also impacts the way your team plays and most definitely in a negative way I would say. And mature player should know better than that.

Or if we focus on the game alone, how is it mature to still(less than in the past, but still to many) take so many dumb shots which are, if not last second shots, only detrimental for your team? Just because it looks cool and you look like Jordan when you make a tough fadeaway but in reality that's just a very low % shot? That doesn't sound very mature to me.

Even though Kobe has spent almost twice as much time in the NBA as Lebron did, now, it looks like Lebron is more mature than Kobe ever was. Just looking at how disciplined his game is this season. And he's probably only reaching his prime as far as maturity/mentality is concerned.


His work ethic, drive, hunger, determination, dedication to the game, desire and will to win is unmatched.

Reading that sentence it felt like reading a soap opera

[Kobr]

Please explain to me how Kobe has better game management and maturity? Is it mature to talk shit about your teammates to the media? Yes, Lebron danced and did childish things but he never threw his teammates under the bus when things weren't going as planned. And he played with some real scrubs throughout his career. But you never heard him say sh!t about his teammates nor his team as a whole. That's mature for me, cuz you know, that's actually what impacts the way your team plays, not dancing or singing along the sidelines. And talking sh!t about your teammates to the media also impacts the way your team plays and most definitely in a negative way I would say. And mature player should know better than that.

Phil Jackson talked shit about players to the media, albeit in a different way. It's called playing mind games to get the most out of your guys. Motivation. To win. Kobe is like a jedi in that respect. :bowdown:

[LBJ 23]

Phil Jackson talked shit about players to the media, albeit in a different way. It's called playing mind games to get the most out of your guys. Motivation. To win. Kobe is like a jedi in that respect. :bowdown:


You're right to some degree. There are players who you can motivate by doing that. But Pau and Howard certainly aint one of them. Especially Dwight, I think it's pretty clear that he will go back at you like a cry baby instead of using that as a motivation.

[Rasheed1]

You're right to some degree. There are players who you can motivate by doing that. But Pau and Howard certainly aint one of them. Especially Dwight, I think it's pretty clear that he will go back at you like a cry baby instead of using that as a motivation.


true... a great leader knows which teammates to coddle and which ones to kick in the ass. Kobe has one mode. it doesnt work for all players, because the WIN is what is most important

[KOBE143]

2000 - Shaq
2001 - Shaq
2002 - Shaq1a, Kobe1b
2003 - Duncan1a, Kobe1b
2004 - KG1a, Kobe1b
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe clearly
2007 - Kobe clearly
2008 - Kobe clearly
2009 - Kobe clearly
2010 - Kobe clearly
2011 - Dirk, LeBron, Kobe, DRose, Durant
2012 - LeBron1a, Kobe1b
2013 - Kobe1a, LeBron1b

I think most people will agree with me with this..

[Dave3]

2000 - Shaq
2001 - Shaq
2002 - Shaq1a, Kobe1b
2003 - Duncan1a, Kobe1b
2004 - KG1a, Kobe1b
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe clearly
2007 - Kobe clearly
2008 - Kobe clearly
2009 - Kobe clearly
2010 - Kobe clearly
2011 - Dirk, LeBron, Kobe, DRose, Durant
2012 - LeBron1a, Kobe1b
2013 - Kobe1a, LeBron1b

I think most people will agree with me with this..
How can I agree with such an idiotic post...in 2012 Kobe is definitely 1a, not 1b

[alleykat]

2000 - Shaq
2001 - Shaq
2002 - Shaq1a, Kobe1b
2003 - Duncan1a, Kobe1b
2004 - KG1a, Kobe1b
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe clearly
2007 - Kobe clearly
2008 - Kobe clearly
2009 - Kobe clearly
2010 - Kobe clearly
2011 - Dirk, LeBron, Kobe, DRose, Durant
2012 - LeBron1a, Kobe1b
2013 - Kobe1a, LeBron1b

I think most people will agree with me with this..

This dude got 4 people in one year....u shud try and understand wut CLEARLY the best player means

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Best Player:

2000 - Shaq
2001 - Shaq
2002 - Shaq
2003 - Duncan
2004 - KG
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Paul
2009 - Lebron
2010 - Lebron
2011 - Lebron
2012 - Lebron
2013 - Lebron

Best Season:

2000 - Shaq
2001 - Shaq
2002 - Shaq
2003 - Duncan
2004 - KG
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Wade
2007 - Kobe
2008 - KG
2009 - Lebron
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Dirk
2012 - Lebron
2013 - Lebron (so far)

[KOBE143]

This dude got 4 people in one year....u shud try and understand wut CLEARLY the best player means
Dude do you have any common sense? :facepalm If I got 4 people in one year, it obviously they're not clearly the best maybe arguable.. You can clearly see in my post who were the best player.. Not every year there's a clear best player, fact..

[KOBE143]

How can I agree with such an idiotic post...in 2012 Kobe is definitely 1a, not 1b
Sorry If I made some mistake in 2012.. I see your white text there maybe your right but LeBron won the championship that year so he deserved to be 1a.. Im fine with Kobe as 1b.. That year was LeBron year.. :lol

[secund2nun]

Kobe at no point was even close to the best player in the NBA.

But anyway the players who have been clearly the best in the NBA since 1990 at any given time include Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, the latest is Lebron.

[red1]

dwyane wade 06 and 09,10,11

[Ne 1]

Years you can say Kobe was clearly the best:

2006 - I don't think anyone else had a case this year. Kobe took his game to another level. Unbelievable historic individual feats, and his team overachieved, too. Phil asked him to carry the team until they learned the triangle, and they ended up with 45 wins in what might be the most stacked conference in the history of the league despite that, and not much of a cast outside of Odom who was very inconsistent and didn't play like an All-Star until the second half of the year)

2007- Not as clear as '06 since I don't think he was quite as good, though he was close. This is the 2nd year in a row that I thought Kobe was clearly the best in the game. Duncan does have a case in hindsight, but I'm sticking with what I thought back then)

2008 - This year is clear. Kobe played his best from an all around standpoint, his best defensive season since the 3-peat, his best job as a facilitator ever and his most mature, unselfish and intelligent ball. It's right up there with '06 as his best season.


Years that you can argue he was the best:

2009- He was at least top 3. He has a case for top 2 behind LeBron, or even best player again, but I have to go with LeBron and Wade as the top 2.

2010- At least #2 behind LeBron. Wade's laziness allowed Kobe to get back to top 2 comfortably, and Lebron's choke job was enough for lot of fans to have Kobe as the best after winning a 5th ring and 2nd Finals MVP, but I still give the slight edge to James despite that)

[fpliii]

Years you can say Kobe was clearly the best:

2006 - I don't think anyone else had a case this year. Kobe took his game to another level. Unbelievable historic individual feats, and his team overachieved, too. Phil asked him to carry the team until they learned the triangle, and they ended up with 45 wins in what might be the most stacked conference in the history of the league despite that, and not much of a cast outside of Odom who was very inconsistent and didn't play like an All-Star until the second half of the year)

2007- Not as clear as '06 since I don't think he was quite as good, though he was close. This is the 2nd year in a row that I thought Kobe was clearly the best in the game. Duncan does have a case in hindsight, but I'm sticking with what I thought back then)

2008 - This year is clear. Kobe played his best from an all around standpoint, his best defensive season since the 3-peat, his best job as a facilitator ever and his most mature, unselfish and intelligent ball. It's right up there with '06 as his best season.


Year were you can argue he was the best:

2009- He was at least top 3. He has a case for top 2 behind LeBron, or even best player again, but I have to go with LeBron and Wade as the top 2.

2010- At least #2 behind LeBron. Wade's laziness allowed Kobe to get back to top 2 comfortably, and Lebron's choke job was enough for lot of fans to have Kobe as the best after winning a 5th ring and 2nd Finals MVP, but I still give the slight edge to James despite that)

Kobe's a difficult case, seeing as his best offensive and defensive seasons didn't perfectly coincide. He was amazing defensively during the threepeat, and outstanding offensively in 06 and 07. I think his most balanced years were 03 and 08 (09 comes close, though I liked what I saw from him the second year of threepeat as well).

[TheMarkMadsen]

Best Player:

2000 - Shaq
2001 - Shaq
2002 - Shaq
2003 - Duncan
2004 - KG
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Paul
2009 - Lebron
2010 - Lebron
2011 - Lebron
2012 - Lebron
2013 - Lebron

Best Season:

2000 - Shaq
2001 - Shaq
2002 - Shaq
2003 - Duncan
2004 - KG
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Wade
2007 - Kobe
2008 - KG
2009 - Lebron
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Dirk
2012 - Lebron
2013 - Lebron (so far)

If you're going to have dirk in 11 and wade in 06 you should have Kobe in 09..

[Deuce Bigalow]

Best Player:

2000 - Shaq
2001 - Shaq
2002 - Shaq
2003 - Duncan
2004 - KG
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Paul
2009 - Lebron
2010 - Lebron
2011 - Lebron
2012 - Lebron
2013 - Lebron
Kobe was the best player in 2008. Literally every player and coach that mentioned about someone being the best player it was Kobe. Find me one important person who said Paul was better.
2011 was was not Lebron wtf? Two words: NBA finals.

[fpliii]

Kobe was the best player in 2008. Literally every player and coach that mentioned about someone being the best player it was Kobe. Find me one important person who said Paul was better.
2011 was was not Lebron wtf? Two words: NBA finals.

sup bro

Quick question -- how do you rank these four Kobe seasons: 01, 03, 08, 09 (including playoffs)?

[alleykat]

Dude do you have any common sense? :facepalm If I got 4 people in one year, it obviously they're not clearly the best maybe arguable.. You can clearly see in my post who were the best player.. Not every year there's a clear best player, fact..

So u answer the ops question about clearly the best player by putting up years there wasn't clearly a best...

Gotcha buddy....u went through all that wikipedia to give an answer no one cares about

Fact

[DMAVS41]

Years you can say Kobe was clearly the best:

2006 - I don't think anyone else had a case this year. Kobe took his game to another level. Unbelievable historic individual feats, and his team overachieved, too. Phil asked him to carry the team until they learned the triangle, and they ended up with 45 wins in what might be the most stacked conference in the history of the league despite that, and not much of a cast outside of Odom who was very inconsistent and didn't play like an All-Star until the second half of the year)

2007- Not as clear as '06 since I don't think he was quite as good, though he was close. This is the 2nd year in a row that I thought Kobe was clearly the best in the game. Duncan does have a case in hindsight, but I'm sticking with what I thought back then)

2008 - This year is clear. Kobe played his best from an all around standpoint, his best defensive season since the 3-peat, his best job as a facilitator ever and his most mature, unselfish and intelligent ball. It's right up there with '06 as his best season.


Years that you can argue he was the best:

2009- He was at least top 3. He has a case for top 2 behind LeBron, or even best player again, but I have to go with LeBron and Wade as the top 2.

2010- At least #2 behind LeBron. Wade's laziness allowed Kobe to get back to top 2 comfortably, and Lebron's choke job was enough for lot of fans to have Kobe as the best after winning a 5th ring and 2nd Finals MVP, but I still give the slight edge to James despite that)


Did Wade just not exist in your mind in 2006? 28/6/6 on high efficiency shooting in the playoffs and one of the best finals performances of all time.

27/6/7 on high efficiency shooting in the regular season.

I'm not going to debate Wade vs Kobe...although I do think Wade had a better year, but again..."clearly" just doesn't apply.

And 07...what did Kobe do that was so special? If you don't value the playoffs a ton...which you clearly don't by your take on 06...then Dirk was just as impressive, if not more, than Kobe in 07.

[Deuce Bigalow]

sup bro

Quick question -- how do you rank these four Kobe seasons: 01, 03, 08, 09 (including playoffs)?
What up

1. 08. Great offense and defensive season. Led Lakers to the Finals. His first 3 rounds were statistically up there with 01 playoffs.
2. 01. Great first 3 rounds of the playoffs and if it wasn't for a poor showing in game 1, Kobe might have been the Lakers leader in PPG over Shaq for the entire run.
3. 09. Worst individual season among the four but the Lakers won the most games. Might be his best playoff run when you factor in all of the series and the Finals. Goes below 01 because the regular season was not as good.
4. 03. One of his best overall seasons but not a playoff run comparable to the other three. But what could have been if Horry hit that shot in game 5? Kobe was unconscious in that 4th quarter and set up a perfect shot for Horry, one of the few times Kobe actually passed up a clutch that was because Horry had a great look.

That's if you're including playoffs. His 03 regular season is top 3 of his career but Kobe was great in the 01, 08, 09 Playoffs.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Did Wade just not exist in your mind in 2006? 28/6/6 on high efficiency shooting in the playoffs and one of the best finals performances of all time.

27/6/7 on high efficiency shooting in the regular season.

I'm not going to debate Wade vs Kobe...although I do think Wade had a better year, but again..."clearly" just doesn't apply.

And 07...what did Kobe do that was so special? If you don't value the playoffs a ton...which you clearly don't by your take on 06...then Dirk was just as impressive, if not more, than Kobe in 07.
10 50 point games for the season, which is more in one season than any player had except for Wilt. 37 ppg since the all-star break. Dirk was just as impressive as what I just mentioned?

[Ne 1]

Kobe's a difficult case, seeing as his best offensive and defensive seasons didn't perfectly coincide. He was amazing defensively during the threepeat, and outstanding offensively in 06 and 07. I think his most balanced years were 03 and 08 (09 comes close, though I liked what I saw from him the second year of threepeat as well).


Great points. Yeah, in 2003 he had the best season of his career to that point, and clearly expanded his skill set that year becoming a legit 3 point shooter in addition to showing more craftiness. 30/7/6/2 (on a 50-win team hit by multiple injuries in a tough Western Conference) 5 triple double's that year and also has 9 straight 40 point games. He was a complete nightmare on the defensive end and a ridiculously explosive scorer. Not to mention he was a legit All-1st team Defensive player. Considering Shaq missed many games and Kobe had some knee issues at one point, it's a marvel how they even won 50 games in that Western Conference.

Actually IMO 2003 Kobe was like 2008 with youth and incredible athleticism. Everything improved, except worse shot selection (he still got away with it though) and rather lacking leadership qualities.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Kobe was the best player in 2008. Literally every player and coach that mentioned about someone being the best player it was Kobe. Find me one important person who said Paul was better.
2011 was was not Lebron wtf? Two words: NBA finals.
I can definitely see arguments for kobe in 2008. Lebron was the best player but didn't have the best season. If you wanna say Dirk was the best in '11 you gotta say Wade was the best in '06.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

If you're going to have dirk in 11 and wade in 06 you should have Kobe in 09..
I would but Lebron was insanely good in the post season - they didn't lose because of him at all. It was probably the best pace adjusted statistical performance by a perimeter player of all time.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

What up

1. 08. Great offense and defensive season. Led Lakers to the Finals. His first 3 rounds were statistically up there with 01 playoffs.
2. 01. Great first 3 rounds of the playoffs and if it wasn't for a poor showing in game 1, Kobe might have been the Lakers leader in PPG over Shaq for the entire run.
3. 09. Worst individual season among the four but the Lakers won the most games. Might be his best playoff run when you factor in all of the series and the Finals. Goes below 01 because the regular season was not as good.
4. 03. One of his best overall seasons but not a playoff run comparable to the other three. But what could have been if Horry hit that shot in game 5? Kobe was unconscious in that 4th quarter and set up a perfect shot for Horry, one of the few times Kobe actually passed up a clutch that was because Horry had a great look.

That's if you're including playoffs. His 03 regular season is top 3 of his career but Kobe was great in the 01, 08, 09 Playoffs.

Out of curiosity - How would you rank Kobe's top 5 seasons.

[Kingwillball]

Lebron has clearly been best player for 4 years now and arguably best player for past 6 years..kobe was arguably best for 2 years and before that it was Duncan and Shaq.

[chazzy]

then Dirk was just as impressive, if not more, than Kobe in 07.
Dirk was not as good as near peak Kobe

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebron has clearly been best player for 4 years now and arguably best player for past 6 years..kobe was arguably best for 2 years and before that it was Duncan and Shaq.
He was outscored by a bench player in the NBA Finals. He's been clearly the best since 2011-12 season to now, but before that it was not clearly. He has good cases in 09 and 10, but there was a guy winning championships during the time.

[Pointguard]

He was outscored by a bench player in the NBA Finals. He's been clearly the best since 2011-12 season to now, but before that it was not clearly. He has good cases in 09 and 10, but there was a guy winning championships during the time.

But if folks are calling it that tight its still only Current Lebron, Shaq and Jordan as the clearly best players. With other numerous players having best years.

[Rojogaqu11]

Hmm.. I find hard to believe that the consensus best player of the last decade (Kobe) wasn't clearly the best player for at least a period during that decade.

I remember that even during the three-peat Lakers period there were people questioning if Shaq was really the best player on the team. Kobe had such a brilliant game even at that stage of his career, that he even made many question if the most dominant player ever was the best player at the time.

So if somebody comes to argue that Kobe has not been the best during his prime years or during his back-to-back championships, clearly has a personal agenda against what was clear at the time.

That would be like saying that Lebron isn't clearly the best player right now, when even when Kobe was clearly above everyone individually some people were putting Lebron up there with him. So the argument works both ways. Lebron is the best right now because he's shown the progression from an incomplete player to a player that backs his statistical production with intangibles (defense, shooting ability, clutch play, etc.), and most importantly, he's the best player on the championship team.

You guys have to stop degrading other players to enshrine your idols.

[DatAsh]

Hmm.. I find hard to believe that the consensus best player of the last decade (Kobe) wasn't clearly the best player for at least a period during that decade.

I remember that even during the three-peat Lakers period there were people questioning if Shaq was really the best player on the team. Kobe had such a brilliant game even at that stage of his career, that he even made many question if the most dominant player ever was the best player at the time.

So if somebody comes to argue that Kobe has not been the best during his prime years or during his back-to-back championships, clearly has a personal agenda against what was clear at the time.

That would be like saying that Lebron isn't clearly the best player right now, when even when Kobe was clearly above everyone individually some people were putting Lebron up there with him. So the argument works both ways. Lebron is the best right now because he's shown the progression from an incomplete player to a player that backs his statistical production with intangibles (defense, shooting ability, clutch play, etc.), and most importantly, he's the best player on the championship team.

You guys have to stop degrading other players to enshrine your idols.

Good points. Very rarely is something like this ever unanimous, but Kobe was just as "clearly" the best player in the league as Lebron is currently imo.

[guy]

Hmm.. I find hard to believe that the consensus best player of the last decade (Kobe) wasn't clearly the best player for at least a period during that decade.

I remember that even during the three-peat Lakers period there were people questioning if Shaq was really the best player on the team. Kobe had such a brilliant game even at that stage of his career, that he even made many question if the most dominant player ever was the best player at the time.

So if somebody comes to argue that Kobe has not been the best during his prime years or during his back-to-back championships, clearly has a personal agenda against what was clear at the time.

That would be like saying that Lebron isn't clearly the best player right now, when even when Kobe was clearly above everyone individually some people were putting Lebron up there with him. So the argument works both ways. Lebron is the best right now because he's shown the progression from an incomplete player to a player that backs his statistical production with intangibles (defense, shooting ability, clutch play, etc.), and most importantly, he's the best player on the championship team.

You guys have to stop degrading other players to enshrine your idols.

I don't get what you're saying. To the bolded, yes you're right, a good amount of people were saying Lebron was up there with Kobe at that time, which means Kobe wasn't clearly the best player in the league. They aren't saying that about someone else in comparison to Lebron right now. Just because Lebron is clearly the best player now, does not mean Kobe ever was.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk was not as good as near peak Kobe

I don't know what near peak means in this context or what years you are referencing...but if you evaluate objectively what they both accomplished in years like 06 and 07...according to the criteria being used by the guy who posted that Kobe was clearly the best in 06...then I just don't see how that can be said.

In 06 Kobe was amazing in the regular season...then had a good series against the Suns, but hardly anything special in my opinion. So while Kobe was quitting in a game 7 in the playoffs...Dirk was playing out of his mind against the Spurs...leading the Mavs to the Finals and becoming the only team to beat the Spurs in the playoffs at their peak between 05 and 07.

When you make a claim like "clearly"...then you better support that with something like results to go along with some stats. Because in 07 Dirk had one like 5 50/40/90 seasons of all time and led a cast of misfits to 67 wins. But on my own criteria I wouldn't say Dirk was better than Kobe in 07 because of the playoffs...but if the playoffs don't matter (which is the only way you could possibly say Kobe was clearly better than Wade and Dirk in 06)...then again...what did Kobe do in 07 that makes him clearly better?

Just for some objectivity.

Dirk averaged 27/12/3 on 60% TS (your stat) in the playoffs in 06. Put up 37/15/3 in game 7 against the Spurs.

Kobe averaged 28/6/6 on 59% TS in the playoffs in 06. And crumbled in a game 7 against the Suns.

If you are going to make a statement "clearly"...then the results and stats better show it.

I'm not going to take away from a player averaging 35 a game, but Iverson averaged 33 a game that year.

I mean....don't you think you might be overplaying Kobe in 06 just a bit?

Iverson put up 33/7/3 on 54% TS
Lebron put up 31/7/7 on 57% TS
Kobe put up 35/5/5 on 56% TS

Playoffs....

Lebron put up 31/8/6 on 56% TS and his team won a series and pushed the Pistons to game 7
Kobe put up 28/6/6 on 59% TS and his team blew a 3-1 series lead and if I'm being nice had an odd game 7

So remove my "bias" with Dirk and I don't see how you get "clearly" with any objectivity in 06

And that isn't even mentioning Wade...who probably has the best case in 06...haha

[Kingwillball]

He was outscored by a bench player in the NBA Finals. He's been clearly the best since 2011-12 season to now, but before that it was not clearly. He has good cases in 09 and 10, but there was a guy winning championships during the time.


4 MVPs in 5 years is his case.. and the Stats and Team records to back it up..

[Patrick Chewing]

Jordan. Not Shaq cause during Shaq's prime you still had guys like Duncan, Olajuwon, Jordan, Bryant, Carter, McGrady.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Jordan. Not Shaq cause during Shaq's prime you still had guys like Duncan, Olajuwon, Jordan, Bryant, Carter, McGrady.

Yeah, but there were still one or two years when Shaq was clearly, undeniably, the best player in the NBA. That's where LeBron is right now, and despite whatever some of these haters say, it's a stone cold fact.

[SacJB Shady]

My father at one time said Agent Zero was the best in basketball. Was Gilbert ever on top of the league?