Highest single-season PER on record:

[pauk]

31.8 (Wilt Chamberlain '62)

LeBron James right now? 31.9. Yup.

[red1]

fcuk off

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Blocks/steals weren't tracked when wilt played so he'd likely be quite a bit higher.

[Budadiiii]

Crazed ranting removed

[plowking]

Who cares?

Its essentially a formulated opinion. Someone gave certain stats a value and decided to run with it. It means exactly nothing when it comes to basketball.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

[QUOTE=Faptastrophe]Counter-argument. Lebron didn

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Who cares?

Its essentially a formulated opinion. Someone gave certain stats a value and decided to run with it. It means exactly nothing when it comes to basketball.
I agree it's very subjective. Nobody should just rank players based on PER but it is somewhat useful comparing players who played a similar style across eras.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Glad you don't just copy and paste tweets without giving the source credit. Or are you actually Tom Haberstroh?

[Nash]

That's fantastic by Lebron. He's playing at an extremely high level right now. But Wilt was obviously just 20x better than the competition.

And I have no idea why people are mad. Sure, you don't like Lebron but appreciate the accomplishments. You guys sound very jealous.

[pauk]

Blocks/steals weren't tracked when wilt played so he'd likely be quite a bit higher.

Not really sure..... not if you consider the 60s possessions/pace difference to the modern era and minutes played (per minute production), which PER kindof considers.... in the 60s the pace was insane and the superstars averaged much higher mpg...

Wilts 31.8 PER came in 1962-63 where he averaged 48.5 MPG for example and where the league averaged 118.8 ppg, the highest in the league’s history.... Furthermore, the average team in the 1962 season had an average of 152 ball possessions, also highest in league's history...

Conversely, over the past two decades in the NBA, teams have averaged about 90-100 possessions per game. Given that this difference gave players during that era 50 percent more opportunities to score, this would give Wilts 50 ppg season an adjusted scoring average of 33 ppg in today’s game. And that’s without considering having a 16-foot foul lane and competing against taller & more talented players......



Lebron this season in 48.5 MPG and 152 ball possessions per game:

48.8 PPG
14.6 RPG
13.1 APG


...and thats why his PER is a bit higher...

[RoundMoundOfReb]

[QUOTE=pauk]Not really..... not if you consider the 60s possessions/pace difference to the modern era and minutes played (per minute production), which PER kindof considers.... in the 60s the pace was insane and the superstars averaged much higher mpg...

Wilts 31.8 PER came in 1962-63 where he averaged 48.5 MPG for example and where the league averaged 118.8 ppg, the highest in the league

[pauk]

Ok. But PER automatically factors in pace and MP. And wilt would likely have a huge amount of blocks it would put him higher.

True, there is a possibility.... but there is a possibility of counting the turnovers a game they had aswell back then :P

[Sarcastic]

Ok. But PER automatically factors in pace and MP. And wilt would likely have a huge amount of blocks it would put him higher.


He doesn't get it. He only sees: Lebron is higher. Time to fap.

[D-Wade316]

Dayum. LOL @ the notion Bron ain't better than Magic and Bird. :oldlol:

[D-Wade316]

Wade's PER upped by 2, I think, after today's game.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Wade's PER upped by 2, I think, after today's game.
Over the last 10 games:

25.1 ppg 5.7 apg 5.7 rpg 55.4% shooting. Looks like he's finally feeling healthy.

[Doranku]

LeBron James, can't win championships in normal seasons, but it's okay because he's champion of PER and champion of Player of the Week awards. :applause:

[madmax]

amazing...:applause: :bowdown:
and he only keeps getting better and better:eek: He will be shattering all kinds of records in a near future anyway - I can already envisage stans of a particular past ballhog shaking in fear and grudge :lol

[D-Wade316]

It's amazing how lebron is playing even better statistically despite 1 superstar and 1 star in their team. The eye test proves this too.

[Nash]

He doesn't get it. He only sees: Lebron is higher. Time to fap.
No, he's actually making a lot of sense and seems knowledgeable about what he's talking about. Lebron or not.

Pauk is a drama queen who is a huge Lebron fanboy but he's not a troll and very informative.

[chazzy]

[QUOTE=pauk]Not really sure..... not if you consider the 60s possessions/pace difference to the modern era and minutes played (per minute production), which PER kindof considers.... in the 60s the pace was insane and the superstars averaged much higher mpg...

Wilts 31.8 PER came in 1962-63 where he averaged 48.5 MPG for example and where the league averaged 118.8 ppg, the highest in the league

[Budadiiii]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6235772&postcount=4

It's different when it's Lebron though, right?
:applause:

Arrogant hypocrite just like his boy LeBron. :roll:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6235772&postcount=4

It's different when it's Lebron though, right?
Lmao How do you always find his old posts :applause: ?

[Doranku]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6235772&postcount=4

It's different when it's Lebron though, right?
:roll: Shut down thread.

Oh, and OP is a f@ggot. Negged and reported.

[plowking]

No, he's actually making a lot of sense and seems knowledgeable about what he's talking about. Lebron or not.

Pauk is a drama queen who is a huge Lebron fanboy but he's not a troll and very informative.

He really doesn't have a clue what hes talking about outside of advanced stats. He regurgitates basketball cliches and sticks to generalizations when talking about older players. Basically, his knowledge is very limited outside of what he sees going on today. Even then he strictly uses stats to lead his arguments.

[dunksby]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6235772&postcount=4

It's different when it's Lebron though, right?
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/applause.gif

[STATUTORY]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6235772&postcount=4

It's different when it's Lebron though, right?
paging pauk :applause: :applause: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Djahjaga]

Problems everyone seem to have with Pauk or other Lebron supporters aside, if you think this isn't in some way amazing, you're being retarded. Even if you think he's statpadding, or it's a soft era, or he has too much help, etc. this is noteworthy and I hadn't realize he had upped his PER this high until this thread, so thanks, OP.

[chips93]

No, he's actually making a lot of sense and seems knowledgeable about what he's talking about. Lebron or not.

Pauk is a drama queen who is a huge Lebron fanboy but he's not a troll and very informative.


its very clear from this thread alone that pauk doesnt know what he talking about.

after that huge post about wilts pace and mpg, its pretty obvious that pauk is clueless on this subject.

[Glide2keva]

PER :facepalm

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Who cares?

Its essentially a formulated opinion. Someone gave certain stats a value and decided to run with it. It means exactly nothing when it comes to basketball.

Thank you.

Lebron is beasting right now regardless.

[Roundball_Rock]

amazing...:applause: :bowdown:
and he only keeps getting better and better:eek: He will be shattering all kinds of records in a near future anyway - I can already envisage stans of a particular past ballhog shaking in fear and grudge :lol

:oldlol: :rockon:

[Droid101]

31.8 (Wilt Chamberlain '62)

LeBron James right now? 31.9. Yup.
http://i.imgur.com/NjrwffZ.jpg

[Whoah10115]

PER is irrelevant so why should there be thread revolving around someone's PER?

[Ne 1]

Who cares?

Its essentially a formulated opinion. Someone gave certain stats a value and decided to run with it. It means exactly nothing when it comes to basketball.

This.

PER doesn't measure who the best player is. Nor does it measure one player being better than another.

All PER does is give an indication of a player's performance based on Hollingers calculated rankings of measured statistics. Hollinger gave the most value to what he thought was most important. Essentially anyone could make a similar stat to PER crediting one category more then another, and thus the list would change.

It isn't anymore viable then if anyone on this site were to make a formula up with their personal beliefs of how stats should be valued.

TL;DR PER is subjective and a flawed stat.

[cotdt]

Wilt played in a weak era.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Top 10 ALL time PER


Rank Player PER
1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.57
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. David Robinson 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain 26.13
6. Dwyane Wade 25.60
7. Chris Paul 25.47
8. Bob Pettit 25.35
9. Tim Duncan 24.72
10. Neil Johnston 24.69


:rolleyes:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I know PER is subjective and an adjusted metric, but this is still pretty impressive. :applause:

[blablabla]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6235772&postcount=4

It's different when it's Lebron though, right?
:roll:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Top 10 ALL time PER


Rank Player PER
1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.57
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. David Robinson 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain 26.13
6. Dwyane Wade 25.60
7. Chris Paul 25.47
8. Bob Pettit 25.35
9. Tim Duncan 24.72
10. Neil Johnston 24.69


:rolleyes:


Why is there an asterisk beside Jordan?

[TheMarkMadsen]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6235772&postcount=4

It's different when it's Lebron though, right?


http://www.general-anaesthesia.com/images/ether.jpg

[Screamingdoom]

Hopefully he brings it against the Spurs in the finals

[BoutPractice]

When you're having the best season of all time in a metric that comes from several stats describing things that actually happen on the court... it's tough to say it isn't impressive. Good PER's not particularly interesting, but the best of all time is clearly noteworthy.

[Droid101]

Top 10 ALL time PER


Rank Player PER
1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.57
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. David Robinson 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain 26.13
6. Dwyane Wade 25.60
7. Chris Paul 25.47
8. Bob Pettit 25.35
9. Tim Duncan 24.72
10. Neil Johnston 24.69


:rolleyes:What, you don't have Neil Johnston in your top 10 all time?

That's YOUR bad.

[CavaliersFTW]

Crazed ranting removed
:oldlol:

[Money 23]

What, you don't have Neil Johnston in your top 10 all time?

That's YOUR bad.
:oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6235772&postcount=4

It's different when it's Lebron though, right?
:lol uh oh, are we still awaiting Pauks response?

[PrettyCool]

Pauk just wrote a 2000 word essay, and is desperately trying not to hit submit in order to avoid further shame and embarrassment.

[che guevara]

Blocks/steals weren't tracked when wilt played so he'd likely be quite a bit higher.
They didn't track TOs either, and Wilt was undoubtedly a high TO player.

[tazb]

I don't understand how LeBron can still have haters despite the fact that he's playing at a Legendary Level most of us haven't seen before. When LeBron's career is over there will be numerous debates on who's the GOAT: MJ or LeBron. LeBron's been improving every season since his rookie year and I can't imagine what he's going to be doing next season. :eek:

[Derka]

Absolutely no one gives a shit about PER.

[PHILA]

They didn't track TOs either, and Wilt was undoubtedly a high TO player.

:no:


The game footage from his prime years actually indicates the opposite.



1967 Playoffs vs Celtics (2nd Half)

24 Halfcourt Touches for Wilt
4 assists for Wilt
1 turnover for Wilt
56 offensive possessions for team


By all accounts this (Gm. 4) was a very lethargic & inefficient game played by the Sixers compared to their usual standard. Even if we assume that they played their worst game for every single night of the season, the above stats suggest that Wilt averaged roughly 8 assists per game that year (which is true), & only 2 turnovers. An average of 8 assists & only 2 turnovers is excellent for a big man.



1964 Finals vs. Celtics (2nd Half)

-16 Halfcourt Touches for Wilt

-1 assist for Wilt

-1* turnover for Wilt (which came from what was clearly an incorrect traveling call, even by the textbook 60's standards)

-52 offensive possessions for team



Keep in mind this is against the '64 Celtics, perhaps the top defensive team ever, from KC Jones on down to their MVP Big Bill Russell. They featured aggressive full court pressing and swarmed Wilt in the half court denying him the ball.

[CavaliersFTW]

:no:


The game footage from his prime years actually indicates the opposite.



1967 Playoffs vs Celtics (2nd Half)

24 Halfcourt Touches for Wilt
4 assists for Wilt
1 turnover for Wilt
56 offensive possessions for team


By all accounts this (Gm. 4) was a very lethargic & inefficient game played by the Sixers compared to their usual standard. Even if we assume that they played their worst game for every single night of the season, the above stats suggest that Wilt averaged roughly 8 assists per game that year (which is true), & only 2 turnovers. An average of 8 assists & only 2 turnovers is excellent for a big man.



1964 Finals vs. Celtics (2nd Half)

-16 Halfcourt Touches for Wilt

-1 assist for Wilt

-1* turnover for Wilt (which came from what was clearly an incorrect traveling call, even by the textbook 60's standards)

-52 offensive possessions for team



Keep in mind this is against the '64 Celtics, perhaps the top defensive team ever, from KC Jones on down to their MVP Big Bill Russell. They featured aggressive full court pressing and swarmed Wilt in the half court denying him the ball.
:oldlol: based on footage why would anyone even assume Wilt was turnover prone? I've never seen one game during or after his prime - or even in college - that suggested he had "high turnovers" - it's literally just a baseless accusation :lol

[La Frescobaldi]

PER is a self adjusting stat. That's actually the best thing about it. Since the league avg is always set at 15 it automatically adjusts to pace/era and rule changes.
No.

PER has a very singular problem that has no solution.

It's true that it is self adjusting, but it's truly warped to say that all players before 1974 get a 0 for blocked shots, and a 0 for steals. Just to even things out. Well things weren't even then just like they are not even today.
Bill Russell gets the same 0 for blocked shots as Jerry Sloan? And turning that around, Bill Russell gets the same 0 for steals as Jerry Sloan - who was a phenomenal thief.

Players can be measured BEFORE 1974, or AFTER 1974, and whatever value PER holds will stand true.
But crossing the 1974 rules line is folly.

****************************************

LeBron is achieving things that have been seen very very few times in the whole history of the league. He is incredible !!

[La Frescobaldi]

They didn't track TOs either, and Wilt was undoubtedly a high TO player.
really? what do you base that on?

[PHILA]

:oldlol: based on footage why would anyone even assume Wilt was turnover prone? I've never seen one game during or after his prime - or even in college - that suggested he had "high turnovers" - it's literally just a baseless accusation :lol

On certain other NBA forums it is actually treated as a historical fact. Again, based on nothing.

[knicksman]

just goes to show that stats doesnt mean everything. Its not good to compare lebron to wilt who is another underachiever. Just like lebron to oscar.