Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

[iamgine]

Can we safely say that Lebron James is better than Magic and Bird? Not in accomplishment, but more in the way we say MJ is better than Magic and Bird. Is Lebron on that level yet?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Peak Lebron (current) is better than peak Magic and Bird. Obvs they had more career accomplishments though.

[fpliii]

IMO Bird but not Magic (based on his offensive impact), though the latter is one of my three GOAT candidates (Jordan and Russell being the other two).

[AngelEyes]

I would agree that he's on the same level, no telling what things may look like in a few years.

[Big#50]

Better than Magic with no doubt. Bird??? I think never.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Yeah I'd definitely say better than Magic - but not Bird.

[plowking]

You could point to a number of Lebron seasons to state his better basketball ability than Magic.

With Bird its closer, and maybe only the last two seasons surpass that of Larry's best seasons.

EDIT: His first MVP in Cleveland could also be argued over Bird, but I don't think so personally.

[D-Wade316]

Without a doubt his peak and prime is EASILY better than Magic and Bird. **** nostalgia.

[Rolando]

It is now OK to mention Lebron in the same breath as Magic and Bird. That's it.

Lebron needs to keep going though. He needs more huge moments and more rings.

[sipitri]

Better than Magic? Maybe
Better than Bird? I don't think so

Comparisons aside he's playing like a legend right now. No one can even contain him or slow him down a bit.
I mean, 0.567 fg%..

[All Net]

He's in the convo for sure.. When it's all said and done he may go anywhere from 2-6 depending on his success.

[midatlantic09]

Anyone who says no is just biased (for one reason or another) and is likely giving too much weight to team accomplishments instead of looking at the individual player and how effective and efficient he is as an individual player. Although Lebron hasn't won as many championships as the other two, he's clearly a better basketball player than both of them. Look at the guy's stats...I mean, my goodness..the guy has a PER of nearly 32 this season and has averaged a 30-31 PER for the past 5 years. That said, I think it's pretty obvious that Lebron has already surpass Bird and Magic and should now be in the same conversation as MJ.

[midatlantic09]

Better than Magic? Maybe
Better than Bird? I don't think so

Comparisons aside he's playing like a legend right now. No one can even contain him or slow him down a bit.
I mean, 0.567 fg%..

Can someone please explain how Bird is better than Lebron? What exactly makes Bird a better player? Is he a better scorer? No. Better ball handler? No. Better passer? Not really. Better defender? No. More versatile? No. More athletic? No. Better shooter? Maybe, but not by much ( especially with Lebron shooting over 50% from the field since like 2008). Better rebounder? Sure, but not by much.

[dunksby]

God damn ISH becoming LeBronville :facepalm:

[SacJB Shady]

Rick Barry ===> LBJ

[plowking]

Can someone please explain how Bird is better than Lebron? What exactly makes Bird a better player? Is he a better scorer? No. Better ball handler? No. Better passer? Not really. Better defender? No. More versatile? No. More athletic? No. Better shooter? Sure, but not by much ( especially with Lebron shooting over 50% from the field since like 2008). Better rebounder? Sure, but not by much.

In terms of passing, its hard to say. Different types of passers if that makes sense. Lebron's overwhelming physical traits allow him to make some insane passes. Such as those incredible wrist flick passes that whizzes the ball through the key and finds the man. As well as the passes across from one side of the court to the other, even when moving in the opposite direction. Bird was a more instinctive passer, and saw things slightly quicker than Lebron IMO.
I'd say Lebron is the better playmaker overall though, due to his ability to get in the paint and kick the ball around.

Bird is also a better post player, rebounder, shooter.

In terms of versatility, I'd say its even. Although Lebron can guard more positions on the court, Larry could probably play more due to his superior rebounding and height.

I agree with you that now Lebron has probably surpassed Bird as a basketball player, but don't act like its not extremely close. With Magic its clear cut for me, but this one is still extremely close.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Nonsense.

[arifgokcen]

Can someone please explain how Bird is better than Lebron? What exactly makes Bird a better player? Is he a better scorer? No. Better ball handler? No. Better passer? Not really. Better defender? No. More versatile? No. More athletic? No. Better shooter? Maybe, but not by much ( especially with Lebron shooting over 50% from the field since like 2008). Better rebounder? Sure, but not by much.
Bird is a better rebounder(though lebron is close especially when he plays close to the basket) and better shooter(as strange as it sound not by much)
In terms of passing i would say bird has the edge but lebron has the edge on playmaking.
Overall lebron with his ath.ability and defense is a better player.

Peak lebron is better than both peak bird and magic.If he keeps this up there is gonna be an argument "who had the better peak jordan or lebron".

This is how good lebron has been.Of course anything short of championship(a very dominant one) would put a big dent on this season.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Nonsense.
please present a fact based argument as to why this is "Nonsense".

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Bird is a better rebounder(though lebron is close especially when he plays close to the basket) and better shooter(as strange as it sound not by much)
In terms of passing i would say bird has the edge but lebron has the edge on playmaking.
Overall lebron with his ath.ability and defense is a better player.

Peak lebron is better than both peak bird and magic.If he keeps this up there is gonna be an argument "who had the better peak jordan or lebron".

This is how good lebron has been.Of course anything short of championship(a very dominant one) would put a big dent on this season.
Pretty much this...

[Micku]

I think he is more of a jack of all trades than either of them, and he is more unstoppable when scoring.

There are things that Magic and Bird do better. Like Magic runs the offense and pass better. Bird plays better off the ball, rebound, and have equal or better passing skills than LeBron. And Bird could put up similar stats like LBJ. Both of them are better in the post in their peak

But LBJ is a better defender and versatile defender, and he is more efficient when he is on the floor. I think he is harder to stop than either of them.


Can someone please explain how Bird is better than Lebron? What exactly makes Bird a better player? Is he a better scorer? No. Better ball handler? No. Better passer? Not really. More versatile? No. More athletic? No. Better shooter? Sure, but not by much. Better rebounder? Sure, but not by much.

Bird could play better off the ball and has better post moves. And he could also pass a bit better to me. And it's impressive that he could get a bunch of assists while not dominating the ball. He could score similar to LeBron with similar efficiency, and is the better rebounder. He could play better PF and once average 28.7 ppg and 10.7 rebounds. LeBron in his career never average 9 rebounds a game in the regular season. But he average 9 rebounds in the playoffs.

To me, Bird played better offensive at times because of his efficiency and great off the ball movement. LBJ cannot play like that because he isn't as good off the ball. If he was, then Wade wouldn't have to change his game as much.

But this year, LBJ is so efficient that it doesn't matter much. And he has improved on almost everything except his FTs. So, I feel I can say current LBJ seems better, but it seems close to me between them.

[Kblaze8855]

Anyone who says no is just biased (for one reason or another) and is likely giving too much weight to team accomplishments instead of looking at the individual player and how effective and efficient he is as an individual player.


I could just as eqaily(and probably more correctly) say that most who dismiss the idea that he isnt never saw Bird and Magic play a game that wasnt on hardwood classics.

Ive seen all 3...a lot. I wouldnt take Lebron over either of them. And I dont even remember really young Bird.

You could make a case to take Lebron and I wouldnt call you an idiot for it......but I wouldnt.

Id say both of them had even more of the main thing id use to justify taking Lebron over the likes of Kobe....they generated chemistry and made other players perform at a high level night in night out.

Plus they are on the short list of guys id say were better passers at their size, they both had a will to win I think blows Lebrons away, and both proved they could score him...if they chose to. And I believe the list of players they make worse with their presence is virtually non existant.

Unselfish as Lebron may be he forces his teammates to bend to his style of game. And effective one...but hes a guy id hesitate to put next to say....Kevin Mchale. I dont see James Worthy having the same career next to Lebron.

Lebron needs role players and stars who gradually accept their position below him and his ball control. Dude is clearing out the likes of Wade sending them to the corners so he can back out to halfcourt and drive and dish 3-4 times a game. I dont know if thats gonna fly with people not inclined to be put in the back seat.

I dont think Lebron is too selfish to change...I think hes too effective to feel he should. And really...he is. But its not what id want on my team. You couldnt build a team like the Spurs with Lebron on it. A "Next man up..." everyone does his thing no matter who plays or who doesnt...chemistry driven team. He takes too much on himself and when hes off it leaves too much to be done.

A magic or bird team with the same players I think makes for a better TEAM....

I dont think its by chance that he won damn near 70 games with role players but 50 something with Wade, Bosh, and similar role players.

Let me take one....its probably Bird....with Magic if I dont trust my guards...

I wouldnt really consider Lebron. Doesnt make him like miles worse. You can put him in their general area. I just dont want to build the team he needs.

[Fatstogey]

Without a doubt his peak and prime is EASILY better than Magic and Bird. **** nostalgia.

Thank you.


omg all you mofos are going based on nostalgia. The guy you watched when you were a kid.

Well guess what? YOU'RE A DAMN ADULT NOW. Who cares what you watched hwen you were a kid.

Lebron is WAY bettter than bird and magic. Freakin some daisy duke wearing old fogeys better than lebron. LMAO.

[RobertdeMeijer]

What KBlaze says.
Teams have to fit LeBron, but Bird is able to fit the team.
And Magic like nobody else was able to turn any team into a force.

LeBron is really really great as an individual, only second to MJ in my opinion. But there are four other teammates out there, and LeBron needs the right kind.

[Blue&Orange]

i love how this thread is full of socket puppets, the ph@ggots don't even have the courage to use their real account. How pathetic is that?


This thread is probably number6 + Pauk with all their socket puppets. This morons think if they do this thread every week people agree with them.


Comparing a cherry picker, stat padder, ring chaser, that chokes even in regular season on every close game to Bird... or even magic. :facepalm

[coin24]

Its pretty obvious in this thread who started watching basketball in the last few years:oldlol:

Id rank them Bird, Magic, LeBron... I think LeBron needs to build up his resume and come through in more big games before you can even mention him with these guys, or anyone in the top 10 for that matter...
If we're being completely honest, the guy has only really had 1 hands down successful season..

The quitting on the Cavs, the choke in the 2011 finals, you cant just overlook all that because he won a single ring:facepalm Especially after forming a super team to achieve that ring.

I have no problem with him being placed in peoples top10 if he has the achievements to back it, with the way he is playing now it looks like that will happen. But to say he is right now better than Bird/Magic? Please....

[Fatstogey]

What KBlaze says.
Teams have to fit LeBron, but Bird is able to fit the team.
And Magic like nobody else was able to turn any team into a force.

LeBron is really really great as an individual, only second to MJ in my opinion. But there are four other teammates out there, and LeBron needs the right kind.

Are you smoking crack righ now? The team has to fit Lebron? LMAO. The dude does everything. There is no fit. Lebron could join any team and the league and you know what that coach would say to him?

"lebron just do what you do."

Thats all that is needed for him to fit into a team.

Great as an individual compared to MJ? Yet has more assists...... hmmm. MJ only passed when he got doubled. Lebron CREATES shots for people. That is not what MJ did. He created them by coincidence of being doubled(and still might not pass).

And the big 3 technically "should not" have fit together. so that makes this statement even more dumb. Lord man do you dudes just listen to games on teh radio or something? I mean what do you guys watch?

[coin24]

Are you smoking crack righ now? The team has to fit Lebron? LMAO. The dude does everything. There is no fit. Lebron could join any team and the league and you know what that coach would say to him?

"lebron just do what you do."

Thats all that is needed for him to fit into a team.

Great as an individual compared to MJ? Yet has more assists...... hmmm. MJ only passed when he got doubled. Lebron CREATES shots for people. That is not what MJ did. He created them by coincidence of being doubled(and still might not pass).

And the big 3 technically "should not" have fit together. so that makes this statement even more dumb. Lord man do you dudes just listen to games on teh radio or something? I mean what do you guys watch?


Yeah just get out there and win LeBron... 2011 finals says hi:oldlol:

[D-Wade316]

Yeah just get out there and win LeBron... 2011 finals says hi:oldlol:
How about Maxwell taking home the FMVP over Bird? Or McHale outplaying Bird in his freaking prime(85 Finals)? *** u.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I could just as eqaily(and probably more correctly) say that most who dismiss the idea that he isnt never saw Bird and Magic play a game that wasnt on hardwood classics.

Ive seen all 3...a lot. I wouldnt take Lebron over either of them. And I dont even remember really young Bird.

You could make a case to take Lebron and I wouldnt call you an idiot for it......but I wouldnt.

Id say both of them had even more of the main thing id use to justify taking Lebron over the likes of Kobe....they generated chemistry and made other players perform at a high level night in night out.

Plus they are on the short list of guys id say were better passers at their size, they both had a will to win I think blows Lebrons away, and both proved they could score him...if they chose to. And I believe the list of players they make worse with their presence is virtually non existant.

Unselfish as Lebron may be he forces his teammates to bend to his style of game. And effective one...but hes a guy id hesitate to put next to say....Kevin Mchale. I dont see James Worthy having the same career next to Lebron.

Lebron needs role players and stars who gradually accept their position below him and his ball control. Dude is clearing out the likes of Wade sending them to the corners so he can back out to halfcourt and drive and dish 3-4 times a game. I dont know if thats gonna fly with people not inclined to be put in the back seat.

I dont think Lebron is too selfish to change...I think hes too effective to feel he should. And really...he is. But its not what id want on my team. You couldnt build a team like the Spurs with Lebron on it. A "Next man up..." everyone does his thing no matter who plays or who doesnt...chemistry driven team. He takes too much on himself and when hes off it leaves too much to be done.

A magic or bird team with the same players I think makes for a better TEAM....

I dont think its by chance that he won damn near 70 games with role players but 50 something with Wade, Bosh, and similar role players.

Let me take one....its probably Bird....with Magic if I dont trust my guards...

I wouldnt really consider Lebron. Doesnt make him like miles worse. You can put him in their general area. I just dont want to build the team he needs.
I sorta understand what you mean in that you can build more types of teams around Magic/Bird as opposed to Lebron but i think a team built to maximize Lebron's strengths would be better than a team built to maximize Magic/Bird's.

[Kblaze8855]

Thank you.


omg all you mofos are going based on nostalgia. The guy you watched when you were a kid.

Well guess what? YOU'RE A DAMN ADULT NOW. Who cares what you watched hwen you were a kid.

Meanwhile people who were 12 in 2003 and grew up on Lebron and Kobe pick their childhood hero....

At least I saw a lot of all of them. Its clear most of you dont know shit about Magic and Larry.

Really:



How about Maxwell taking home the FMVP over Bird? Or McHale outplaying Bird in his freaking prime(85 Finals)? *** u.


No way this dude has seen even one of the games in question. Im a fanatic for that kinda thing...ive watched some of the games within the year....and I watched some of it at the time...and even I dont remember the details that clearly.

But he sees fit to talk about it?

This is children and young adults talking about people they know NOTHING about. We all do it at times....how many people watched Russell and are on ISH? But I tell you one thing....someone who DID watch him speaks...I listen.

I assume they saw more than I....read about.

I remember hating on Elgin Baylor when I was a kid and Dr.J was about to retire and my stepfather told me he thought Elgin was better.

In retrospect...I didnt know what the hell I was talking about. Even if my opinion(Doc being better) is true....it came directly out of my ass.

Half of you are 20-25 doing no more thinking than I did as a child.

[Micku]

Are you smoking crack righ now? The team has to fit Lebron? LMAO. The dude does everything. There is no fit. Lebron could join any team and the league and you know what that coach would say to him?

"lebron just do what you do."

Thats all that is needed for him to fit into a team.


Wade had to change his style of play because of LeBron. Wade is also very ball dominant, and since there is only one ball, they were conflicting for a while in the half court. They still sort'a do. Someone like Bird wouldn't have that issue because of his off the ball action and Magic runs the offense better.

I would just disagree with Kblaze on how Mchale or Worthy wouldn't fit with him. The reason why Wade and LBJ was so awkward, not as much currently, was because they both need the ball to be effective. LBJ just took that role because he was better at playing point and because he wasn't really good at playing off the ball. Regardless, Mchale and LBJ style do not clash, and I think would fit together. Worthy and LBJ wouldn't clash as much as Wade and LBJ I don't think, but I'm not sure how they would've turned out.



I dont think Lebron is too selfish to change...I think hes too effective to feel he should. And really...he is. But its not what id want on my team. You couldnt build a team like the Spurs with Lebron on it. A "Next man up..." everyone does his thing no matter who plays or who doesnt...chemistry driven team. He takes too much on himself and when hes off it leaves too much to be done.

Imo, I don't like that comparison of build a team like the Spurs because the Spurs don't really have a caliber star like LBJ. And we don't know what would Pop would make him do. Current LBJ don't really handle the ball as much as he used to, but he still handles it enough. I would figure the Spurs would set LBJ as a super Tony Parker. The Spurs style may fit LBJ because of the shooters, spacing, ball movement. The Heat this year already has pretty good ball movement, and I can see something similar with the Spurs.

They would just have to replace Tony because he would conflict with LBJ game. And the problem I would see is that sometimes they have Tony come off of screens, and he is a better catch and shoot player. LBJ could do that, but both don't do that often enough. But I can see LBJ fit well.

LBJ takes away players who needs the ball to be effective like Wade or something. But I can't replace Bird with LeBron on those Celts teams because some of those players won't have the same impact.

[Indian guy]

But there are four other teammates out there, and LeBron needs the right kind.

Hasn't LeBron's offensive success with 2 completely different teams in Cleveland and Miami debunked this myth?

Miami's the #1 ranked offense in the NBA this season. #2 in 2011(think of that slow start!) and #6 last season, mainly due to Wade's subpar health and resting their stars at the end of the season, where they failed to break 70 points for consecutive games. It would have been another Top 3 finish otherwise. LeBron has seamlessly coexisted with a shorter replica of himself in Wade(2 Top 3 PER finishes and currently 7th over the last 3 years), but can't with players who are very different from him? That doesn't make much sense.

People need to check out some basic +/- stats for top 5-man units this season. Most of them are dominated by Miami's Big 3. Again, a testament to how well LeBron's game blends with other good players. 2008 was 5 years ago, people. Time has moved on, and so should your archaic view of his game. LeBron stopped being ball dominant in 2009, the year Cleveland ranked #4 on offense. It's 2013 now. Perception is a bitch. Learn by actually WATCHING the game, for once.

[Money 23]

What? Bron was ball dominant until he left Cleveland

[Mr. Jabbar]

No its not safe, run!!

[Indian guy]

What? Bron was ball dominant until he left Cleveland

His game changed plenty after 'Mo's arrival in 2009. Compared to his Miami self, yes, he was more ball-dominant in '09 and '10, but getting the ball from 30 feet out and playing pick n roll for half the game ended with the '08 season for him. He has been a different player since, partly due to off-ball improvements in his own game and partly due to the improvement of talent around him. And the better the talent around him has been - the more successful offensively his teams have been. Of course, he's gotten smarter too. Basketball IQ is far superior to what it was pre-2009.

[Money 23]

Indian Guy

How effective do you consider LeBron's ISO game to be sans pick and roll

[Bigsmoke]

better than Magic? yeah

Bird? ummm.. nah

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Indian Guy

How effective do you consider LeBron's ISO game to be sans pick and roll
He's currently 6th in the league statistically. 1.03 ppp

[Indian guy]

Indian Guy

How effective do you consider LeBron's ISO game to be sans pick and roll

Right now? It's very good. He has regained some of his old quickness on the perimeter, so he CAN consistently beat you off the dribble. He's one of the best standstill shooters in the NBA, so he can shooter over you. And he has slowly learned how to use his bulk down low, so he is a very effective post-up player too. Someone with access to synergy stats recently said he has the league's 6th best PPP in isolations this season.

He will never be MJ or Kobe, guys with dominant first steps and GOAT midrange games, but he's good enough. And that lack of first step + so-so ability to pull up on a dime is WHY he prefers the pick-n-roll so much.

[Jacks3]

LeBron is currently anchoring one of the best offenses in history. A offense that is every bit as good as what Magic or Bird ever led. I don't think you can use the whole "too ball dominant" thing anymore.

[Kingwillball]

Way to many posts to replay to in here and many are biased or delusional. I have seen all 3 play and best way to describe Lebron is he has a little Magic and Larry in his game along with MJ when it comes to high flying acrobatics. Bird and Magic both had special gifts but neither were as talented as Lebron. Head to head Lebron has a lot of same qualities but way more athletic also. In short he is as good now and will probably be passing both in the next couple years with more rings Mvps and overall great play.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Way to many posts to replay to in here and many are biased or delusional. I have seen all 3 play and best way to describe Lebron is he has a little Magic and Larry in his game along with MJ when it comes to high flying acrobatics. Bird and Magic both had special gifts but neither were as talented as Lebron. Head to head Lebron has a lot of same qualities but way more athletic also. In short he is as good now and will probably be passing both in the next couple years with more rings Mvps and overall great play.


I love how you call other people biased, while you're sporting a Lebron avatar & username and then present an argument that's based soley on opinion without a single fact.

You just regurgitate the most obvious shit that anybody could say "magic & bird had special gifts" :wtf: does that mean?

If you've actually seen those 2 play like you say, I feel like you would have presented a better argument for them besides spitting out a bunch of vague basketball cliches

[KOBE143]

Maybe if he use condom then he's at least safer than Magic..

But against Bird.. Dunno? :confusedshrug:

[pauk]

First of all, in their primes i always thought Larry Bird was better than Magic overall, i felt he could do everything better than Magic except the facilitate part..... and yes he was a better defender than Magic aswell, he managed to be honored with three 2nd all-defensive team spots... my father who was an avid Celtic fan in the 80s told me that the NBA fans considered by a majority Larry Bird being better overall talent than Magic, there was many polls, media discussions saying so and the players & coaches would mostly favor Bird aswell when asked....

I was a toddler in the 80s, did just barelly catch Bird and Magic live some years before they retired, but due to the tapes my father recorded (good ol VHS) i did kindof grow up watching lots of Larry Bird...

My point is also that i personally think when it comes to Lebron vs Bird its less safe to say he was better compared to Lebron vs Magic....

Here is this guy Lebron, a guy that has the rebounding ability of both Magic & Bird... that has the vision of both of them.... that has the passing ability which you could argue was better than Birds (Lebron was/is for sure at least a better assist man/facilitator, with better ballhandling/PG skills).... that has a greater scoring arsenal than Magic and that produces points better and more efficiently than Both of them....... and so on, offense is kindof arguable.... You begin to argue their offense, but soon as you start thinking about the defensive side..... the comparison is then pretty much over as Lebron is a much better defender than both of them.... Lebron has the versatility of Pippen on the defensive side while having the versatility of Magic on the offensive side....

Accolades wise Lebron still has a road ahead of him... but when you talk about individual players/talents, when you draw up what Lebron can do at this current stage in his career on both ends of the floor and at what type of level and then compare that to Bird & Magic you will figure out Lebron is a somewhat better overall individual player.... its hard to try and twist & turn around it....

[TheMarkMadsen]

First of all, in their primes i always thought Larry Bird was better than Magic overall, i felt he could do everything better than Magic except the facilitate part..... and yes he was a better defender than Magic aswell, he managed to be honored with three 2nd all-defensive team spots... my father who was an avid Celtic fan in the 80s told me that the NBA fans considered by a majority Larry Bird being better overall talent than Magic, there was many polls, media discussions saying so and the players & coaches would mostly favor Bird aswell when asked....

I was a toddler in the 80s, did just barelly catch Bird and Magic live some years before they retired, but due to the tapes my father recorded (good ol VHS) i did kindof grow up watching lots of Larry Bird...

My point is also that i personally think when it comes to Lebron vs Bird its less safe to say he was better compared to Lebron vs Magic....

Here is this guy Lebron, a guy that has the rebounding ability of both Magic & Bird... that has the vision of both of them.... that has the passing ability which you could argue was better than Birds (Lebron was/is for sure at least a better assist man/facilitator, with better ballhandling/PG skills).... that has a greater scoring arsenal than Magic and that produces points better and more efficiently than Both of them....... and so on, offense is kindof arguable.... You begin to argue their offense, but soon as you start thinking about the defensive side..... the comparison is then pretty much over as Lebron is a much better defender than both of them.... Lebron has the versatility of Pippen on the defensive side while having the versatility of Magic on the offensive side....

Accolades wise Lebron still has a road ahead of him... but when you talk about individual players/talents, when you draw up what Lebron can do at this current stage in his career on both ends of the floor and at what type of level and then compare that to Bird & Magic you will figure out Lebron is a somewhat better overall individual player.... its hard to try and twist & turn around it....

I don't understand your argument, at first you say Bird could do everything better except for facilitating the offense. So you admit that passing/facilitating is Birds weak point.

And then your argument for Bron being better than Bird is because he was a better paasser/facilitator..

Also you say Lebron is a just as good of a rebounder as Bird, yet Bird consistently averaged 10-11 rebounds per game and Lebron has never done that?

Then you go on to say Lebron has a better scoring arsenal than Magic... Well no shit Magic wasn't known for his elite scoring..

So basically Lebron a better passer than Bird & a better scorer than Magic? Ok, il give you that but your basically jus saying that Lebron is better at doing 2 things that were minor weakness for each player?

How does that make Lebron better? He wasn't the rebounder Bird was, Bird could score in more ways, Magic facilitates better than Lebron or anybody for that matter could ever dream of

[plowking]

Its so easy to see which posters have actually watched, read and bothered to educate themselves on topics. You have posters like pauk and kingwillball that regurgitate material they've read on here or stick to talking about basics and standard basketball cliches. :oldlol:

[SilkkTheShocker]

What? Bron was ball dominant until he left Cleveland


He had to be ball dominant. What else were they suppose to do? Run isolation plays for Sasha Pavlovic? Run pick n rolls with Eric Snow and Gooden? They even moved Larry Hughes to PG halfway through the 06/07 season to try and get him going. That team couldn't score worth a shit. It wasn't until 2008 they got more consistent outside shooting.

[Dragonyeuw]

-Lebron scores more efficiently that either, but he's not as skilled a scorer as Bird

-Magic's passing is best, I'd say Bird and Lebron are pretty much on par. Magic was crazy at making something out of nothing in terms of passing

-Bird's the best rebounder out of the three, Lebron and Magic are roughly par. At least statistically this would support that...

-Lebron is obviously the most physically gifted

-Lebron is obviously the best defender

If we're talking the total sum of their games, I don't think it's an unreasonable statement at this stage. Lebron's current level of play is historic as far as perimeter players go especially.

[Mr. Jabbar]

First of all, in their primes i always thought Larry Bird was better than Magic overall, i felt he could do everything better than Magic except the facilitate part..... and yes he was a better defender than Magic aswell, he managed to be honored with three 2nd all-defensive team spots... my father who was an avid Celtic fan in the 80s told me that the NBA fans considered by a majority Larry Bird being better overall talent than Magic, there was many polls, media discussions saying so and the players & coaches would mostly favor Bird aswell when asked....

I was a toddler in the 80s, did just barelly catch Bird and Magic live some years before they retired, but due to the tapes my father recorded (good ol VHS) i did kindof grow up watching lots of Larry Bird...

My point is also that i personally think when it comes to Lebron vs Bird its less safe to say he was better compared to Lebron vs Magic....

Here is this guy Lebron, a guy that has the rebounding ability of both Magic & Bird... that has the vision of both of them.... that has the passing ability which you could argue was better than Birds (Lebron was/is for sure at least a better assist man/facilitator, with better ballhandling/PG skills).... that has a greater scoring arsenal than Magic and that produces points better and more efficiently than Both of them....... and so on, offense is kindof arguable.... You begin to argue their offense, but soon as you start thinking about the defensive side..... the comparison is then pretty much over as Lebron is a much better defender than both of them.... Lebron has the versatility of Pippen on the defensive side while having the versatility of Magic on the offensive side....

Accolades wise Lebron still has a road ahead of him... but when you talk about individual players/talents, when you draw up what Lebron can do at this current stage in his career on both ends of the floor and at what type of level and then compare that to Bird & Magic you will figure out Lebron is a somewhat better overall individual player.... its hard to try and twist & turn around it....

why not? you just did...

[pauk]

why not? you just did...

No i didnt, because those assumptions are based on facts, logic and perfect reason... i can show you...

[TheMarkMadsen]

No i didnt, because those assumptions are based on facts, logic and perfect reason... i can show you...


First of all, in their primes i always thought Larry Bird was better than Magic overall.





I was a toddler in the 80s



:facepalm

[plowking]

Plus they are on the short list of guys id say were better passers at their size, they both had a will to win I think blows Lebrons away, and both proved they could score him...if they chose to.

Interesting you mention "will to win". Quite a cliche, especially when mentioning Larry Bird who said in his first year that he most likely wouldn't want to be in the league after 5 or 6 years. Obviously things changed, but I think its conjecture when mentioning things like "will to win" or "love of the game", since you don't really know how much a player wants to win, or how he shows such emotion. Everyone reacts and handles things differently.

[2010splash]

Yes. LeBron is on a level that has only been matched by prime Jordan. Magic and Bird were never as good as LeBron was even during his MVP Cavaliers days, never mind current LeBron. Do you really see Magic or Bird leading the putrid roster Cleveland had to the best record in the entire league two straight seasons?

[iamgine]

Yes. LeBron is on a level that has only been matched by prime Jordan. Magic and Bird were never as good as LeBron was even during his MVP Cavaliers days, never mind current LeBron. Do you really see Magic or Bird leading the putrid roster Cleveland had to the best record in the entire league two straight seasons?
Bird kinda did with the Celtics in his 1st season...

[pauk]

@MarkMadsen.... you didnt seem to comprehend what i was talking about, i am gona try be more thorough.

What Lebron has at his advantage offensively compared to Bird:

*Ballhandling
*Athleticism (which he uses for the defensive side aswell)
*Open-court/Full-court game
*Just simply putting the ball in the hole more and more efficiently.
*Running the offense for his teammates, is a better assist man.
*Can play basically all positions & roles offensively.

What Bird has at his advantage offensively compared to Lebron:

*Shooting
*Post game
*This above made him i think a better overall half-court offensive scorer.

Arguable for both:
*Vision & Passing Ability, in which its a mute point according to me, as they possess probably the best combination of passing skills & vision ive seen from any non-PGs.
*Intangibles & IQ.

What Lebron has at his advantage defensively:

*EVERYTHING

What Bird has at his advantage defensively:

*NOTHING

This doesnt mean Bird was a bad defender, but that he has no advantage of Lebron there....

One other thing which you could say Bird was better at is rebounding as he produced 2.8 more rpg over his career.... but from watching them you will quickly figure it had to do more with tendencies/habits, Bird would attack the defensive boards more often, Lebron would leak out early on the open court instead more often... Bird would attack the offensive boards more often, Lebron would instead more often run back early to stop the opposing leak-out/open-court/fastbreak opportunity..... Birds defensive ability itself was actually not any greater than Lebrons (or Magics)..... its like saying Lebron is a better passer than Bird because Lebron produces more assists.... understand? Doesnt completely work that way...

When push comes to shove Lebron with short words is simply a more overall productive, efficient and more versatile talent at this stage in his career.... its very difficult to fight this... and both Magic & Bird with their own words acknowledged this....


Lebron today i think is also more dominant than Magic & Bird were.... its because Magic & Bird were flip-flopping over that honor, that "best player" honor, one year its Magic, one year its Bird, one year its somebody completely else (Moses 1983), one year its Magic, Bird, Magic, Bird, over and over, then this guy Michael Jordan came into the picture..... Lebron has no rival/rivals like that, he is dominating it all, he is clearly the best player, its Lebrons basketball world and we are living in it...

[Whoah10115]

It's safe to say that he isn't.


Magic is better than Bird and James is not.

[lilgodfather1]

Scoring
LeBron - 3
Bird - 2
Magic - 1

Passing
Magic - 3
LeBron/Bird - 1.5 (although LeBron is better imo, i'll leave my bias out)

Rebounding
Bird - 3
LeBron/Magic - 1.5

Defense
LeBron - 3
Bird - 2
Magic - 1

Point totals

LeBron - 9
Bird - 8.5
Magic - 6.5

I'm not going to do some opinionated ranking system that is completely subjective like things that can't accurately be measured by stats like play making ability, or will to win.

Simple ranking, simple result with no bias on my part.

[gengiskhan]

NO

[SilkkTheShocker]

It's safe to say that he isn't.


Magic is better than Bird and James is not.


Would neg, but I have to spread my rep around before I can neg you again

[inclinerator]

for all those saying players have to fit lebron, give lebron a real coach and see how good he'll really become

[Kblaze8855]

Interesting you mention "will to win". Quite a cliche, especially when mentioning Larry Bird who said in his first year that he most likely wouldn't want to be in the league after 5 or 6 years. Obviously things changed, but I think its conjecture when mentioning things like "will to win" or "love of the game", since you don't really know how much a player wants to win, or how he shows such emotion. Everyone reacts and handles things differently.

How long you desire to play and your will to win everything you do play are not the same thing. And yes its cliche....so is "Defense wins championships". Doesnt mean it doesnt.

Not being able to quantify will to win doesnt mean some dont have more of it than others. You tell me Kobe, Bird, Jordan, and Bill Russell didnt want to win and take the steps needed to do so more than say.....Vince Carter, Eddy Curry, Jamal Magloire, and Elvin Hayes....I just dont believe you are serious. There are guys like Magloire who take 3 moths off for a finger injury while some like Allen Iverson rip off the cast against doctors orders and play with a broken knuckle. There are people like Elvin Hayes who ask out of a game 7 when they got behind and didnt want to come back...and there are people like Larry Bird who snap their fingers back into place during a timeout refusing to leave the game. Some will sit out playoff games with bullshit injures...some like Bill Russell go play on a broken ankle(foolish as it may have been).

Some laugh when getting blown out in a big game....some fight to the last and drag their teammates effort up to match their own if only out of shame.

I cant measure it...but it exists. We all know it exists. We all have played pickup ball. some guys are having fun...they wanna win...but they arent gonna let the game decide their mood. Some guys are pissed off all week over a loss and wont quit till the game is literally over.

Cant measure it. We all know its there though.

[Kingwillball]

I love how you call other people biased, while you're sporting a Lebron avatar & username and then present an argument that's based soley on opinion without a single fact.

You just regurgitate the most obvious shit that anybody could say "magic & bird had special gifts" :wtf: does that mean?

If you've actually seen those 2 play like you say, I feel like you would have presented a better argument for them besides spitting out a bunch of vague basketball cliches


Dude I have been Watching Bball since the 80's. The Grifts I was referring to is passing, Making Winning Plays being team leaders ect. Lebron can score when he wants to better than Either While Magic was Better at Running an Offense and Bird was a Dead eye outside shooter. Lebron can do a little of all those things. Watch a LEbron HIghlight Film on YOu tube and I still Shake my HEad at some of the Plays he Made over the years we have just either become Used to it or alot of people ON Ish were Not watching his as closely a few years ago. The Dunks the speed the Passing, the Strength, the Playmaking the scoring binges its all there and not many can or have put together a highlight package like Lebron and to Think he may just be Halfway done with his career. Truly a once in a lifetime type talent.

[Kingwillball]

Scoring
LeBron - 3
Bird - 2
Magic - 1

Passing
Magic - 3
LeBron/Bird - 1.5 (although LeBron is better imo, i'll leave my bias out)

Rebounding
Bird - 3
LeBron/Magic - 1.5

Defense
LeBron - 3
Bird - 2
Magic - 1

Point totals

LeBron - 9
Bird - 8.5
Magic - 6.5

I'm not going to do some opinionated ranking system that is completely subjective like things that can't accurately be measured by stats like play making ability, or will to win.

Simple ranking, simple result with no bias on my part.

good Post cant say I disagree with anything. The Thing is Rebounding Lebron COULD be a beast but sometimes doesnt want to put the effort in on the boards.That is why come Playoff time he Averages 10 Plus cause he is doing whatever he has to and putting in the extra effort.

[Rysio]

not even better than adrian dantley. check the stats

[RoundMoundOfReb]

not even better than adrian dantley. check the stats
Even if we don't adjust for pace/era or take into account defense Lebron's stats are better...

[tazb]

He's better than Larry already, will pass Magic soon.

[Champ]

@MarkMadsen.... you didnt seem to comprehend what i was talking about, i am gona try be more thorough.

What Lebron has at his advantage offensively compared to Bird:

*Ballhandling
*Athleticism (which he uses for the defensive side aswell)
*Open-court/Full-court game
*Just simply putting the ball in the hole more and more efficiently.
*Running the offense for his teammates, is a better assist man.
*Can play basically all positions & roles offensively.

What Bird has at his advantage offensively compared to Lebron:

*Shooting
*Post game
*This above made him i think a better overall half-court offensive scorer.

Arguable for both:
*Vision & Passing Ability, in which its a mute point according to me, as they possess probably the best combination of passing skills & vision ive seen from any non-PGs.
*Intangibles & IQ.

What Lebron has at his advantage defensively:

*EVERYTHING

What Bird has at his advantage defensively:

*NOTHING

This doesnt mean Bird was a bad defender, but that he has no advantage of Lebron there....

One other thing which you could say Bird was better at is rebounding as he produced 2.8 more rpg over his career.... but from watching them you will quickly figure it had to do more with tendencies/habits, Bird would attack the defensive boards more often, Lebron would leak out early on the open court instead more often... Bird would attack the offensive boards more often, Lebron would instead more often run back early to stop the opposing leak-out/open-court/fastbreak opportunity..... Birds defensive ability itself was actually not any greater than Lebrons (or Magics)..... its like saying Lebron is a better passer than Bird because Lebron produces more assists.... understand? Doesnt completely work that way...

When push comes to shove Lebron with short words is simply a more overall productive, efficient and more versatile talent at this stage in his career.... its very difficult to fight this... and both Magic & Bird with their own words acknowledged this....


Lebron today i think is also more dominant than Magic & Bird were.... its because Magic & Bird were flip-flopping over that honor, that "best player" honor, one year its Magic, one year its Bird, one year its somebody completely else (Moses 1983), one year its Magic, Bird, Magic, Bird, over and over, then this guy Michael Jordan came into the picture..... Lebron has no rival/rivals like that, he is dominating it all, he is clearly the best player, its Lebrons basketball world and we are living in it...

I think the categories you list here are somewhat arbitrary and do not paint a complete picture. The language you choose largely dictates this.

For instance, there were a lot of aspects of offensive basketball you had omitted that I, in turn, could list that would favor Bird.

There are some defensive elements, as well.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Magic maybe, Bird no.

Bird was clearly a better overall player than Magic, I don't know who goes against this, even Magic admits it. Magic won most of his MVP's when Bird was already a shell also, and the Celtics couldn't compete, before that, except for '87, Bird was always above on MVP voting. Plus Larry was the main man from the start, Magic had a top 3 player close to his prime when he got there.

People seem to forget about competition though, LeBron's competition can't hold a candle to what Bird or Magic went up against, as far as top players and teams.
Plus the 80's had the best SF's in history and the 80's East was just one of goat conferences, as to the East that LeBron played in has mostly been really, really weak.
Larry had a better peak, and did more or the same against much better competition, especially as far as top players and teams.

[Money 23]

Is it safe to say LeBron is now a better catch and shoot player than Kobe? I still think Kobe's a better shooter off the dribble.

[ILLsmak]

We should just compare LeBron to who he is playing against now. I think LeBron is better than the rest of the players in the NBA right now. Why isn't that enough? I mean, I can understand because he is seemingly so far ahead that people want to compare him to other players, but the truth is... those sort of comparisons aren't made until careers are over and they can compare accolades.

In terms of fantasy land... no, I'm taking Bird and Magic. It doesn't matter who is the better all around player. It's who gets the best results. Those guys are (arguably) top 5 all time players. They played in the greatest era for bball and dominated. It's hard to put anyone over them.

-Smak

[Clifton]

Can someone please explain how Bird is better than Lebron? What exactly makes Bird a better player? Is he a better scorer? No. Better ball handler? No. Better passer? Not really. Better defender? No. More versatile? No. More athletic? No. Better shooter? Maybe, but not by much ( especially with Lebron shooting over 50% from the field since like 2008). Better rebounder? Sure, but not by much.
Better scorer against good defenses. Benefits less from breakaways and defensive collapses, but is able to get a bucket against anyone any time. The only other guy who I've watched who can do that, to that extent, is MJ.

And MJ pointed out that Lebron is stoppable by a great team defense. His average jumpshooting means he has to beat you with other players. Bird could beat you with other players but he didn't have to so much.

And this topic is kind of alarming. We have still never seen Lebron put up a very good whole playoff series against a good defense. He beat Celtic and Thunder teams that were okay - and barely - but he's never been challenged the way Bird was on a regular basis (Pistons, Lakers, others).

[Micku]

Better scorer against good defenses. Benefits less from breakaways and defensive collapses, but is able to get a bucket against anyone any time. The only other guy who I've watched who can do that, to that extent, is MJ.

And MJ pointed out that Lebron is stoppable by a great team defense. His average jumpshooting means he has to beat you with other players. Bird could beat you with other players but he didn't have to so much.

And this topic is kind of alarming. We have still never seen Lebron put up a very good whole playoff series against a good defense. He beat Celtic and Thunder teams that were okay - and barely - but he's never been challenged the way Bird was on a regular basis (Pistons, Lakers, others).

Of course we have. We've seen him against the Celtics of 10, 11, 12. We've seen against the Bulls of 11, and the Magic of 09. He did amazing against them.

They were all top 1-3 defensive teams in the league. With respect to the Mavs, it's more amazing that he had a super crappy Finals in 11 when there were better defensive teams that he faced in the Eastern Conference that same season. He does have great individual performances against them.

LeBron is much harder to stop than Bird to me because LBJ is the greater finisher and you can't sag on him anymore, daring him to take a jumpshot because he'll make it now. Bird have more skills that I think may help a team a bit better offensive than LBJ, but LBJ (especially current LBJ) is harder to guard and contain individually. We'll see how he does in the playoffs tho.

[tmacattack33]

I have no clue...I didn't see bird and magic play.

I think it's safe to say that current Lebron is the best player since Peak Shaq (which was around 2000-2002) though.

And many people/"experts" aka tv sports personalities/ex-players say that Peak Shaq is a top 3 peak of all time. So if Lebron is near that, i would guess that would put him at Magic and Bird level or above it.

[Euroleague]

No. LeBron's basketball IQ and clutch gene is minuscule compared to either Bird or Magic.

[Kingwillball]

No. LeBron's basketball IQ and clutch gene is minuscule compared to either Bird or Magic.

LOL.. I was Reading How Coaches and Players Marvel at How Smart Lebron is on the Court knowing the game inside and out and always seeming to be one step ahead of Everyone in reading Plays and sequences Develop. Basically Riley called him a true basketball Prodigy Physically and mentally. But keep on Hating.,

[Euroleague]

LOL.. I was Reading How Coaches and Players Marvel at How Smart Lebron is on the Court knowing the game inside and out and always seeming to be one step ahead of Everyone in reading Plays and sequences Develop. Basically Riley called him a true basketball Prodigy Physically and mentally. But keep on Hating.,

The same coaches that have IQs around 80, the same players that have IQs around 60-70..............

[G-train]

Lebron plays basketball the way Magic and Bird dreamed about playing it.
I'm an older poster and have seen all 3.
Lebron just blows them away athletically, and combined with comparable skills is now better.
The stuff Jordan used to do in that league athletically, in the mid-late 80's.... Lebron would be like that except bigger and stronger, and he gets up higher adn plays 'higher' than MJ.
I'm secure enough in my analysis and emotions to admit that, despite Bird probably being my favorite player ever.
It's just so different now. The physical attributes are much more advanced, and Lebron sits at the top of that.
I'd choose Lebron, and I'd whip all your asses.

[LikeABosh]

The same coaches that have IQs around 80, the same players that have IQs around 60-70..............
You are just really goddamn stupid.

[G-train]

No. LeBron's basketball IQ and clutch gene is minuscule compared to either Bird or Magic.

That's garbage. The pressure on the individual superstar in 2013 is literally 10 times that of back then.
Bird probably wouldn't even have played, he'd be mowing lawns in French Lick and killing people at the local. Exaggerating of course.

[TheBigVeto]

Lebron is better in defense than Magic or Bird (Bird is better than Magic in this).

Magic is a better passer than Lebron or Bird (Bird is better than Lebron in this but the difference isn't that great).

Bird is a much better shooter than Lebron or Magic.

Rebounding wise Bird is the best but not by much over the other two.

Lebron is a better athlete and dunker than either Bird or Magic. Quicker and stronger than the other two.

Basketball IQ - it's a wash.

Magic is the most overrated among the three. He's also the best in getting HIV.

[NumberSix]

Magic Johnson is the perfect example of a player's legend growing after their career.

In their playing days, it was pretty unanimous that Bird>Magic.


To answer the question, yes. LeBron is better than either of them ever were. Even if you wan't to call it a draw offensively, you can't ignore how much of a complete joke it would be to compare Magic or Bird to James defensively.


There's a serious problem with sports fans when it comes to former players. You generally have two groups.

Group A: Older is always better
Group B: Newer is always better.

Both groups are ridiculous. Group A always argues that these new guys couldn't hang back in the day. Group B always argues that the new guys would utterly embarrass the guys back in the day. Both sides are equally as stupid.

[lpublic_enemyl]

can`t compare right now cause lebron`s career is not over:confusedshrug:

[Vragrant]

He is close to their level, but Bird is better due to being a better shooter a comparable rebounder, more clutch and is equal or arguably better a passer. Yes I said it, Bird is as good or better a passer then LBJ.

Exhibit A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ

Note the pass at the 32 sec mark
Over the head behind the back bounce pass over the double team
::bowdown:

[pauk]

He is close to their level, but Bird is better due to being a better shooter a comparable rebounder, more clutch and is equal or arguably better a passer. Yes I said it, Bird is as good or better a passer then LBJ.

Exhibit A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ

Note the pass at the 32 sec mark
Over the head behind the back bounce pass over the double team
::bowdown:

Defense says "Hi!"...

[NumberSix]

He is close to their level, but Bird is better due to being a better shooter a comparable rebounder, more clutch and is equal or arguably better a passer. Yes I said it, Bird is as good or better a passer then LBJ.

Exhibit A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ

Note the pass at the 32 sec mark
Over the head behind the back bounce pass over the double team
::bowdown:
:facepalm

It's ****ing amazing how many people literally only pay attention to half of the game.

It's like, the fact that defense is part of the game let alone half of it doesn't even cross their mind at all.

[gengiskhan]

NO

I've seen Magic play.
I've seen Bird Play.
I've seen LBJ play.

Magic & Bird were clearly on higher level. They just had better Court vision & higher Bball IQ.

Magic & Bird controlled the game from start. Bird was even better than Magic cuz be played without the ball in his hands & still controlled the game.

LBJ maybe better defender but as leaders & players. Bird & Magic are clearly better than LBJ.

[gengiskhan]

Defense says "Hi!"...

Bird took Mchale + Parish team to 67 Wins in a much tougher Eastern Conf. era.

LBJ in his 2 full years + Wade + Bosh has FAILED to take MIA to 70 wins in a WEAKER Eastern Conf.

LBJ is playing All-time Great at GOAT level no doubt. I respect that.

Bird was just AN ANIMAL on whole new level.

Funny thing is. HE DID NOT EVEN HAVE BALL IN HIS HANDS LIKE LBJ MOST OF THE TIME & BIRD STILL DOMINATED.

[1987_Lakers]

Let's get one thing straight, at their peak, Magic is not on the level of Bird & LeBron.

I believe Bird was a better offensive player than LeBron in the half court by a decent margin, Bird actually has alot on LeBron, better shooter, passer, rebounder, post player, LeBron is a better finisher, athlete, defender, & transition player. I'll probably give the edge to LeBron over Bird just because of the defensive end.

LeBron > Bird > Magic

[pauk]

Genghis... is Lebron better than ANYBODY according to you?

[gengiskhan]

Genghis... is Lebron better than ANYBODY according to you?

Lebron is BETTER than Kobe (incl. Peak Prime)
Lebron is BETTER than Duncan (inc. Peak prime)
Lebron is BETTER than Drexler (incl. peak prime)
Lebron is MUCH BETTER than AI (incl. peak prime)
Lebron is MUCH BETTER than Dirk (incl. peak prime)
Lebron is SLIGHTLY BETTER or EQUAL to SHAQ (incl. peak prime)
Lebron is BETTER than Jerry West (incl. peak prime)

probably more... I'll stop.

LBJ is NOT better than Bird, Magic or Big O (just check the stats)

[Vragrant]

:facepalm

It's ****ing amazing how many people literally only pay attention to half of the game.

It's like, the fact that defense is part of the game let alone half of it doesn't even cross their mind at all.

You are acting like Bird was a bad defender. He wasn't. He was a good team defender, and much more clutch than LBJ.

[pauk]

Lebron is BETTER than Kobe (incl. Peak Prime)
Lebron is BETTER than Duncan (inc. Peak prime)
Lebron is BETTER than Drexler (incl. peak prime)
Lebron is MUCH BETTER than AI (incl. peak prime)
Lebron is MUCH BETTER than Dirk (incl. peak prime)
Lebron is SLIGHTLY BETTER or EQUAL to SHAQ (incl. peak prime)
Lebron is BETTER than Jerry West (incl. peak prime)

probably more... I'll stop.

LBJ is NOT better than Bird, Magic or Big O (just check the stats)

Jerry West, Kobe Bryant and especially Shaq you could also argue/debate about who were better individual talents compared to Magic & Bird....

You are putting Magic & Bird on a way to high pedestal my friend... way to big... and Bird was one of my favorite players of all time to watch (bigger favorite than Lebron).... Lebron vs Magic/Bird is much more debatable than that... you make it seem like this comparison is absolutely absurd...

We are talking about what the players can/could do on that 90 foot floor, offensively & defensively......... not accolades... you need to be more reasonable...

[NumberSix]

You are acting like Bird was a bad defender. He wasn't. He was a good team defender, and much more clutch than LBJ.
Clutch defensively? Are you fcuking insane? :wtf:

[gengiskhan]

Jerry West, Kobe Bryant and especially Shaq you could also argue/debate about who were better individual talents compared to Magic & Bird....

You are putting Magic & Bird on a way to high pedestal my friend... way to big... and Bird was one of my favorite players of all time to watch (bigger favorite than Lebron).... Lebron vs Magic/Bird is much more debatable than that... you make it seem like this comparison is absolutely absurd...

We are talking about what the players can/could do on that 90 foot floor, offensively & defensively......... not accolades... you need to be more reasonable...

Its stuff like this I'm talking about!

1980-1981 Steals Leader: MAGIC JOHNSON.
1981-1982 Steals Leader: MAGIC JOHNSON.

Its easier for 6'8" - 6'9" backcourt player to lead NBA in steals. running the passing lanes with long wingspan & swatting the ball while playing perimeter D & stuff.

# of steals titles Non-athletic Magic has = 2.
# of steals titles much more athletic, freak of nature LBJ has = ZERO so far.

so stop talking offensively defensively stuff. Magic was always better than LBJ because he controlled the game better as a leader.

[2010splash]

This player comparison is simply a joke. More ridiculous overrating of 80's legends for no reason. LeBron is a much more dominant scorer than Magic and a much better defender than Bird (and Magic). There's literally nothing Magic or Bird do significantly better than LeBron. Nothing period. They both have a weakness that is LeBron's strength. It's a joke to compare a two-way god like LeBron to two players who were marginal defensive players. Too bad both offense and defense count in this sport when comparing individual players. And LeBron is arguably a better offensive player than both while sh-tting a big fat turd over both of them defensively.

Easily, easily LeBron.

[Kingwillball]

Bird Was Great but Lebron would just be to much for Bird Head to head. Too big too strong too fast. As a team Player Lebron can do it all as well whatever is needed. Sorry but Bird is Not better OVERALL than Lebron in any shape way or Form. Once Lebrons Team achievements start catching up to his individual achievements it will not be much of a debate. Ask this question 3 years from 90% of people will say Lebron easy I am betting.

[plowking]

Bird Was Great but Lebron would just be to much for Bird Head to head. Too big too strong too fast. As a team Player Lebron can do it all as well whatever is needed. Sorry but Bird is Not better OVERALL than Lebron in any shape way or Form. Once Lebrons Team achievements start catching up to his individual achievements it will not be much of a debate. Ask this question 3 years from 90% of people will say Lebron easy I am betting.

You really add nothing to conversations apart from generalizations and cliches. You probably haven't seen a single full game of Bird or Magic.