Michael Jordan is trying to get back to his playing weight

[Heilige]

[QUOTE]As his 50th birthday approaches on Sunday, and the sports world covers the approaching day like it's an actual milestone rather than a justifiable excuse to splash the most compelling athlete of our generation across magazine covers, Michael Jordan is setting a goal that most men have when hitting the half-century mark.

Only, Michael Jordan is not most men.

When MJ talks about losing weight, it provokes instant speculation

[Living Being]

He's just having a hard time letting go and not getting the attention anymore.

[B-Low]

He's just having a hard time letting go and not getting the attention anymore.

Crazy thing is he STILL gets all the attention. Hell you scroll down page 1 on these forums and there's more Jordan threads than any other topic, and it's the biggest weekend of the NBA season :oldlol:

I will say tho you gotta admire the old man's competitive drive. To be 50, have a hot fiancee 20+ years younger than you, making MORE money in retirement than you ever made as a player, your clothing brand is as strong as ever, still being talked about on ESPN on a daily basis every time you open your mouth, owner of your home state's NBA team, people are still buying new DVDs of the same recycled footage of you that we've been seeing for 25 years....and you STILL want to come back and prove how good you are. No chance in hell a successful comeback happens. But you gotta respect the desire.

[Glide2keva]

Crazy thing is he STILL gets all the attention. Hell you scroll down page 1 on these forums and there's more Jordan threads than any other topic, and it's the biggest weekend of the NBA season :oldlol:

I will say tho you gotta admire the old man's competitive drive. To be 50, have a hot fiancee 20+ years younger than you, making MORE money in retirement than you ever made as a player, your clothing brand is as strong as ever, still being talked about on ESPN on a daily basis every time you open your mouth, owner of your home state's NBA team, people are still buying new DVDs of the same recycled footage of you that we've been seeing for 25 years....and you STILL want to come back and prove how good you are. No chance in hell a successful comeback happens. But you gotta respect the desire.
That's what makes him the man.

[SacJB Shady]

Jordans coming back...

[B-Low]

Jordan really really really really really really really really really really really really really wishes he could come back...

fixed that for ya

[CelticBaller]

inb4 10 ppg 2 rb 3 ast 39% FG

[TheMarkMadsen]

Who doesn't wanna see Jordan come back and play for OKC or the heat

[O_City_Thunder]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YKlAvThyLhY/TxtO2e0b6gI/AAAAAAAAAnU/OHl-SJcr4Qg/s1600/photo1.jpg

[PP34Deuce]

He's just having a hard time letting go and not getting the attention anymore.


No I think he really enjoys the game of basketball and the competition. I feel like Charles and Magic enjoy their business ventures and golf as much as they did basketball.

I think Jordan is like a Favre in that he really enjoys this game and will never stop playing it. I also think every generation that comes out he thrives to know if he can hang with them

he prove he could dominate late 80s early90s
he proved he could come back and dominate the mid-late 90's
Came back to show he could be a 20 5 5 player in the new 2000's era
Now he sees this 2010's era and I feel he wants to personally see if he can still be a top player.

I dont think its attention from media, I think its to prove to himself

[SacJB Shady]

This is almost as legendary if not more than a Tupac comeback. Only this really is possible.

Michael Jordan could be playing next year in an NBA Uniform. Just imagine that. Just try.

[B-Low]

This is almost as legendary if not more than a Tupac comeback. Only this really is possible.

Michael Jordan could be playing next year in an NBA Uniform. Just imagine that. Just try.

So a retired basketball player who still plays basketball on a daily basis, coming back to play basketball, would be as legendary as a human being coming back from the dead after 15+ years???

[SacJB Shady]

So a retired basketball player who still plays basketball on a daily basis, coming back to play basketball, would be as legendary as a human being coming back from the dead after 15+ years???


Depends who the retired basketball player is :kobe:

[B-Low]

Dear lord you're off balance...

[chuckbuck]

Let him come back at 50, give Lebron a chance to dunk on his old ass! This guy is a post career joke.

[#number6ix#]

Lol Jordan would get owned if he tried to comeback. Come on let's be real he would be a liability on defense at the least. I know it's mj but 50 years old is 50 years old just look at kobe one of the hardest workers in the nba if not the hardest worker and guys he's guarding routinely have great nights could jordan really keep up I think not

[SacJB Shady]

Lol Jordan would get owned if he tried to comeback. Come on let's be real he would be a liability on defense at the least. I know it's mj but 50 years old is 50 years old just look at kobe one of the hardest workers in the nba if not the hardest worker and guys he's guarding routinely have great nights could jordan really keep up I think not


Naww. Players respect Jordan and would go a little easier

[B-Low]

Naww. Players respect Jordan and would go a little easier

If you believe that for ONE second you're insane (though I know evidence on this board has already confirmed this). You think all these young guys wouldn't go extra hard at Jordan to try and make a name for themselves by dominating him? You think LeBron, Kobe and Brandon Jennings for some reason wouldn't wanna drop 80 on him?

After all the shit Jordan's said about this era being easier to blah blah blah and these players couldn't have cut it when he was around, you think they'd go EASY on him so he could keep downing this generation once he packs up and leaves again? If MJ even came back and was remotely successful, it'd be an embarrassment to the current league that a 50 year old from the 90s could come back and play well against them. They'd go at him harder than you've ever seen.

[Shepseskaf]

This guy is a post career joke.
Yeah, his post-career has gone so horribly wrong that he makes more in a month than you will in 10 years.

[ThaRegul8r]

Who doesn't wanna see Jordan come back and play for OKC or the heat

I don't. I already saw the majority of his career when he was actually in his prime, including every game of the Bulls' titles years. With this being the case, why would I care to see him at 50? I'm not some kid who never saw Jordan, nor am I someone whose only live recollection of him is from his Wizards years and had to watch YouTube clips to see what he was like. I saw it all as it was actually happening. I don't believe I watched a single game while he was on the Wizards, so why would I want to watch him now? If it actually happens, I still maintain it's pathetic. It would mean that even after all his riches and his fame, he still can't let go and move on with his life. Which goes to show that more money that most people could ever dream of isn't what people think it is, and can't buy contentment.

[TheNaturalWR]

Yeah, his post-career has gone so horribly wrong that he makes more in a month than you will in 10 years.

For god's sake he could make a ton just by deciding to release a shoe...

[kennethgriffin]

#1 reason jordan wont ever come back



























= wilt chamberlain would overtake the all time ppg record

[9512]

I don't. I already saw the majority of his career when he was actually in his prime, including every game of the Bulls' titles years. With this being the case, why would I care to see him at 50? I'm not some kid who never saw Jordan, nor am I someone whose only live recollection of him is from his Wizards years and had to watch YouTube clips to see what he was like. I saw it all as it was actually happening. I don't believe I watched a single game while he was on the Wizards, so why would I want to watch him now? If it actually happens, I still maintain it's pathetic. It would mean that even after all his riches and his fame, he still can't let go and move on with his life. Which goes to show that more money that most people could ever dream of isn't what people think it is, and can't buy contentment.

:applause:

[imdaman99]

Yeah, his post-career has gone so horribly wrong that he makes more in a month than you will in 10 years.
bro you got it way wrong. he will make more in 1 month than 99% of us make in a lifetime.
assuming he makes 5-10+ mill a month :pimp:

[mentallooser]

Can't see him coming back. He might be able to play some cleanup minutes or whatever, but he is 50 years old. I'm sure that on a practice court he could probably still look like a great player, but getting old is noticed most at full speed. At the full speed of a game his reflexes, speed, decision making would all appear greatly diminished. He would appear unable to pull the trigger on offense as if he isn't even trying.

Would look very much like an old boxer who was once great trying to fight a younger fighter that he would have demolished in his day. He is 50 years old, this cannot be stressed enough.

[k0kakw0rld]

#1 reason jordan wont ever come back



























= wilt chamberlain would overtake the all time ppg record


This.

[miggyme1]

Can't see him coming back. He might be able to play some cleanup minutes or whatever, but he is 50 years old. I'm sure that on a practice court he could probably still look like a great player, but getting old is noticed most at full speed. At the full speed of a game his reflexes, speed, decision making would all appear greatly diminished. He would appear unable to pull the trigger on offense as if he isn't even trying.

Would look very much like an old boxer who was once great trying to fight a younger fighter that he would have demolished in his day. He is 50 years old, this cannot be stressed enough.


Did u just compare boxing to basketball????? Hell nah. U di know boxers prolly take more punishment than nfl players right??? Ive played bball against guys in their late 40's and yes their lateral quickness wasnt the best but they could shoot like crazy and they post game was exceptional. Not sayin every guy in their late 40's can pull it off but basketball and baseball are two sports that are father time friendly compared to boxin and football. I think jordan could come back and be like a jerry stackhouse....hit that corner three and with him gettin down to 218 hell he might even be able to rebound a lil.

[CLTHornets4eva]

Yeah, his post-career has gone so horribly wrong that he makes more in a month than you will in 10 years.

His post career is about as good as any former player not named Magic.

He makes $40 million per year from the Jordan Brand, he owns a team, and has one of the biggest houses in the world.

His career as an exec was not great, but many former player's weren't (Isaish's was worse).

He is attacked becasue his post career is under a microscope. Lots of players end up addicted to drugs and have criminal histories. He has maintained a clean record and is an upstanding citizen in Charlotte. HORRIBLY WRONG

[NumberSix]

MJ told me to get off his lawn

[CHi1PriDe]

Smh @ you guys thinking he's trying to come back. Nothing wrong with setting some new goals :facepalm

[oh the horror]

Smh @ you feels thinking he's trying to come back. Nothing wrong with setting some new goals :facepalm



This. He's not 'coming back'


the man isnt an idiot. He physically cannot play the game at that level anymore...and im sure Mike isnt into getting shown up on a nightly basis

[tmacattack33]

Would he be the first 50 year old to play in any of the four major sports?

If so, it's a pretty cool goal and i think he might want to do it.

I'm guessing there mighta been a 50 year old kicker in the NFL or something at some point though.

[Money 23]

This is proof for anyone that doubted otherwise the difference between MJ and Kobe, especially in terms of competitive fire.

Kobe is the biggest fan of the game, possibly that has EVER played. That's why he does the things he does. It's partly solo motivated. He loves the game, the history, the players who came before him. He wants to be recognized.

MJ has a sickness within himself. A gene that just wants to compete and prove himself, even when he is widely considered GOAT and his body would fail him. He has to compete, or he feels unfulfilled.

Imagine having to live that everyday. Feeling you could slaughter the dudes on your tv screen, and want to see how you stack up but your body won't let you.

That's obsession, lack of self awareness, mental illness ... but also takes TREMENDOUS amounts of heart.

[RedBlackAttack]

He's just having a hard time letting go and not getting the attention anymore.
The guy still gets A LOT of attention. I'd say he still has to be one of the most recognizable athletes in the world. Certainly the most recognizable in this country.

There's a part of me that would love to see him play again. Now that I've let go of any petty resentments over what he used to do to my Cavs, I can appreciate his being the GOAT. On the other hand, it would undoubtedly be a disappointment.

[RedBlackAttack]

This is proof for anyone that doubted otherwise the difference between MJ and Kobe, especially in terms of competitive fire.

Kobe is the biggest fan of the game, possibly that has EVER played. That's why he does the things he does. It's partly solo motivated. He loves the game, the history, the players who came before him. He wants to be recognized.

MJ has a sickness within himself. A gene that just wants to compete and prove himself, even when he is widely considered GOAT and his body would fail him. He has to compete, or he feels unfulfilled.

Imagine having to live that everyday. Feeling you could slaughter the dudes on your tv screen, and want to see how you stack up but your body won't let you.

That's obsession, lack of self awareness, mental illness ... but also takes TREMENDOUS amounts of heart.
Pretty much.

And, let the record show that I consider Kobe a bit of a throwback player and I appreciate him because of it. He isn't concerned with making friends out there or going to dinner with his opponents after the game. He wants to rip their throat out.

I love that aspect of him, but also see the difference between he and Jordan.

[mentallooser]

Did u just compare boxing to basketball????? Hell nah. U di know boxers prolly take more punishment than nfl players right??? Ive played bball against guys in their late 40's and yes their lateral quickness wasnt the best but they could shoot like crazy and they post game was exceptional. Not sayin every guy in their late 40's can pull it off but basketball and baseball are two sports that are father time friendly compared to boxin and football. I think jordan could come back and be like a jerry stackhouse....hit that corner three and with him gettin down to 218 hell he might even be able to rebound a lil.

The effect is the same. Reflexes slow, your body slows, you can't react anywhere near the same. I'm a huge fan of boxing, this isn't a debate about the effects of boxing. I was giving a comparison to what it would look like. Jordan isn't going to come back to play the corner three. Jordan is going to want to play like Jordan in the post and that simply will not happen.

[RedBlackAttack]

The effect is the same. Reflexes slow, your body slows, you can't react anywhere near the same. I'm a huge fan of boxing, this isn't a debate about the effects of boxing. I was giving a comparison to what it would look like. Jordan isn't going to come back to play the corner three. Jordan is going to want to play like Jordan in the post and that simply will not happen.
He wouldn't do it if he couldn't be at least a semblance of his former self. I trust that if he did come back (which I don't expect), he would still be able to put up points.

[tmacattack33]

A question for you people...would you be okay with the league allowing Jordan (or other players above 50 years old) to take steroids and other banned substances in an attempt to play again?

[L.Kizzle]

Jordan needs to sit his crusty ass down somewhere.

[Money 23]

Pretty much.

And, let the record show that I consider Kobe a bit of a throwback player and I appreciate him because of it. He isn't concerned with making friends out there or going to dinner with his opponents after the game. He wants to rip their throat out.

I love that aspect of him, but also see the difference between he and Jordan.
I do, too. The only thing with Kobe is I've never known if it's genuine or not. Is he doing it because of watching all the Jordan tapes and studying his game, mannerisms, approach, etc. He grew up having to adapt to different cultures, quickly. And it's part of what makes him come off as phony at times.

We know for a fact MJ doesn't like the 'making friends of opponents" concept of post MJ generations.

Well I shouldn't say that, the .5 post Jordan generation doesn't really do this: Iverson, Kobe, KG, Duncan, Pierce

LeBron's generation 2004 + is the first TRUE post MJ generation. They grew up idolizing him, but weren't so close to it in their basketball development that they do everything within the 'Jordan mold' ...

And the generational differences are noticeable. Some are good. Like the way they play the game, less selfish, less volume scoring, can pass and willing to share the rock. But the love fest between players is sickening to me.

[RedBlackAttack]

I do, too. The only thing with Kobe is I've never known if it's genuine or not. Is he doing it because of watching all the Jordan tapes and studying his game, mannerisms, approach, etc. He grew up having to adapt to different cultures, quickly. And it's part of what makes him come off as phony at times.

We know for a fact MJ doesn't like the 'making friends of opponents" concept of post MJ generations.

Well I shouldn't say that, the .5 post Jordan generation doesn't really do this: Iverson, Kobe, KG, Duncan, Pierce

LeBron's generation 2004 + is the first TRUE post MJ generation. They grew up idolizing him, but weren't so close to it in their basketball development that they do everything within the 'Jordan mold' ...

And the generational differences are noticeable. Some are good. Like the way they play the game, less selfish, less volume scoring, can pass and willing to share the rock. But the love fest between players is sickening to me.
You speak the truth.

There is no doubt that the immediate post-Jordan era was a bit too abrasive. So much that people felt like they could no longer relate to the players, which is why the game dropped in popularity.

They went too far in the other direction. Hell, the most dynamic team of that period -- the early-00s Lakers -- didn't even like one another... At least, not the two best players on the team.

They took the whole "be the man at all costs" thing a few levels too far.


The James/Wade-era overcorrected itself. Now, it is hard to distinguish just how much satisfaction these guys take in beating one another and, worse, how rough a time they really have when they are beaten. That was when they were on separate teams.

The whole thing jumped the shark, as far as I'm concerned, when they all decided to team-up as Super Friends. That forever tainted this era of basketball for me and hopefully the new CBA rules end it quickly. I'm a student of 1980s and 1990s basketball. This sh!t makes no sense to me.

[Money 23]

You speak the truth.

There is no doubt that the immediate post-Jordan era was a bit too abrasive. So much that people felt like they could no longer relate to the players, which is why the game dropped in popularity.

They went too far in the other direction. Hell, the most dynamic team of that period -- the early-00s Lakers -- didn't even like one another... At least, not the two best players on the team.

They took the whole "be the man at all costs" thing a few levels too far.


The James/Wade-era overcorrected itself. Now, it is hard to distinguish just how much satisfaction these guys take in beating one another and, worse, how rough a time they really have when they are beaten. That was when they were on separate teams.

The whole thing jumped the shark, as far as I'm concerned, when they all decided to team-up as Super Friends. That forever tainted this era of basketball for me and hopefully the new CBA rules end it quickly. I'm a student of 1980s and 1990s basketball. This sh!t makes no sense to me.
Brilliant post, dude.

Things could be leveling off with the next generation though: Durant, Rose, Westbrook

It seems like they are true old school. Competitive and fiery, like MJ's generation, but not taking the concept to the extremes ala Kobe / Iverson's .5 Jordan generation, and not being all giddy and friendly with each other ala LeBron's generation.

They seem to be pure of heart, which is good.

[DMAVS41]

You speak the truth.

There is no doubt that the immediate post-Jordan era was a bit too abrasive. So much that people felt like they could no longer relate to the players, which is why the game dropped in popularity.

They went too far in the other direction. Hell, the most dynamic team of that period -- the early-00s Lakers -- didn't even like one another... At least, not the two best players on the team.

They took the whole "be the man at all costs" thing a few levels too far.


The James/Wade-era overcorrected itself. Now, it is hard to distinguish just how much satisfaction these guys take in beating one another and, worse, how rough a time they really have when they are beaten. That was when they were on separate teams.

The whole thing jumped the shark, as far as I'm concerned, when they all decided to team-up as Super Friends. That forever tainted this era of basketball for me and hopefully the new CBA rules end it quickly. I'm a student of 1980s and 1990s basketball. This sh!t makes no sense to me.

It's really not that hard to figure out. These players have been told their entire lives that the only way to go down as an all time great is to win titles. At least for a player like Lebron (whom you are obviously talking about)...he knew he could only be regarded as one of the 5 or so best players ever if we won a lot of titles. Hell, what Jordan just said proves my point. 5 always beats 1. That is why he teamed up with Wade/Bosh.

We all have our differing opinions on whether it is right or not, but we all know that if any player wants to go down in the top 10 or higher all time...they better win a lot of titles. And obviously that matters to a player like Lebron. He wants to go down as the best player ever. And he simply could never have done that on the Cavs.

[kurt_rambis]

Would he be the first 50 year old to play in any of the four major sports?

If so, it's a pretty cool goal and i think he might want to do it.

I'm guessing there mighta been a 50 year old kicker in the NFL or something at some point though.
gordie howe played at 51 or something. he actually contributed, too

jordan could come off the bench every other game and not totally embarrass himself if he really wanted, but, at least for me, it wouldn't be fun to watch

[Solid Snake]

#1 reason jordan wont ever come back



























= wilt chamberlain would overtake the all time ppg record




This is the reason right here.

[wakencdukest]

Jordan needs to sit his crusty ass down somewhere.


Agreed. He'll never make it back to 218.

[RedBlackAttack]

Brilliant post, dude.

Things could be leveling off with the next generation though: Durant, Rose, Westbrook

It seems like they are true old school. Competitive and fiery, like MJ's generation, but not taking the concept to the extremes ala Kobe / Iverson's .5 Jordan generation, and not being all giddy and friendly with each other ala LeBron's generation.

They seem to be pure of heart, which is good.
I agree. I think there was a large subsection of NBA players who didn't look kindly on the whole teaming up thing. I think the future of the game is in good hands. In addition to the guys you mentioned, watching the rookie/sophomore game last night, I was pretty excited about the level of talent displayed on the floor. And, Kyrie, Faried, Rubio, etc. seem like they have some 'old school' in them.


It's really not that hard to figure out. These players have been told their entire lives that the only way to go down as an all time great is to win titles. At least for a player like Lebron (whom you are obviously talking about)...he knew he could only be regarded as one of the 5 or so best players ever if we won a lot of titles. Hell, what Jordan just said proves my point. 5 always beats 1. That is why he teamed up with Wade/Bosh.

We all have our differing opinions on whether it is right or not, but we all know that if any player wants to go down in the top 10 or higher all time...they better win a lot of titles. And obviously that matters to a player like Lebron. He wants to go down as the best player ever. And he simply could never have done that on the Cavs.

No, I'm not just talking about James. As far as I'm concerned, Dwyane Wade was the guy who really made all that happen. He convinced James to buy-in to the concept.

And, this isn't just about the Miami Heat... It is happening out West too, with the Clippers and the Lakers. My criticism is not limited to just one player, although he is the best player in the league, so this will ultimately be remembered as his era.

I don't want to get into the whole Cleveland thing... This conversation has nothing to do with that. The fan in me would have been taken aback if Wade and Bosh had come to Cleveland. I thought the idea of these guys teaming up was totally bizarre when it was first seriously discussed on here. Go back and read the posts.

It is just an era of basketball I can't relate to.

[RedBlackAttack]

This is the reason right here.
If he really only cared about that, he wouldn't have come back the first time and the record would have been that much harder to overtake.

[Dbrog]

The James/Wade-era overcorrected itself. Now, it is hard to distinguish just how much satisfaction these guys take in beating one another and, worse, how rough a time they really have when they are beaten. That was when they were on separate teams.

The whole thing jumped the shark, as far as I'm concerned, when they all decided to team-up as Super Friends. That forever tainted this era of basketball for me and hopefully the new CBA rules end it quickly. I'm a student of 1980s and 1990s basketball. This sh!t makes no sense to me.

GTFO of here with that. 76ers, Lakers, Celtics, all had "super friends." Clearly not a student.

[Money 23]

I bust a basketball nut every time I watch Kyrie play. If Rose never makes it back, or is never the same player write it down NOW ... that's my guy. I love watching Irving play.

BTW, it's funny no one gets on Bron's case for the hypocrisy in these interviews. He seemed upset MJ said Bron is probably the superior player, Kobe is the more cursed competitor (like him) and has the argument when it comes to rings.

LeBron goes onto explain rings don't always define a player. Well then, bruh, why did you damn near shoot your legacy in the foot by joining another superstar and a top five PF just to get one of them THANGS ?!

If you had heart, and you actually believed that sensibility, you would've stuck it out in Cleveland like a man with heart, and through sheer force of hard work, talent (you seem to be improving your game now that you have bounced) ... you should have WILLED that organization to a ring.

You know, like how Mike did. He wasn't spoiled with rosters like Kobe, Magic, and Bird. He put in that work. Sure situational context and timing plays a part. But he may not have got 6 without a little luck, but he definitely would've got a few rings. His will was not to be denied.

Bron is a hypocrite when it comes to this issue, plain and simple. Contradicting him even being in a Miami uniform and the whole "it's gonna be easy ... not 5, not 6, not 7"

At the end of the day, I'm taking Jordan. He's the best of both worlds in regards to Kobe and Bron, without some of their negative intangibles.

[RedBlackAttack]

GTFO of here with that. 76ers, Lakers, Celtics, all had "super friends." Clearly not a student.
Being drafted on to a stacked team is entirely different from joining forces in your prime with several of the other best players in the league. It isn't comparable.

Also not comparable are old veterans joining forces late in their careers to make one last go at a title.

No, great teams aren't new, obviously. It is the way this was conducted that is entirely new.

[whoartthou]

mj is clearly a narcissist

[Dbrog]

Being drafted on to a stacked team is entirely different from joining forces in your prime with several of the other best players in the league. It isn't comparable.

Also not comparable are old veterans joining forces late in their careers to make one last go at a title.

No, great teams aren't new, obviously. It is the way this was conducted that is entirely new.

You talkin about Bird or Magic? Cause magic forced his way onto the Lakers. Heat aint even stacked compared to those teams. Hell, last year, their squad wasn't as good as MJs teams. Debatable whether they're even as stacked as the Thunder were w/ Harden and certainly not stacked like the current Lakers.

[Money 23]

Hell, last year, their squad wasn't as good as MJs teams.
:biggums:

[Dbrog]

:biggums:

MJ > Bron
Pip > Wade
Rodman > Bosh
Harper > Chalmers
Kukoc > Battier
Kerr > Miller
etc etc

Come on dude. Stop trying to revise history.

Even his older teams, I take Grant over Bosh.

[Money 23]

MJ > Bron
Pip > Wade
Rodman > Bosh
Harper > Chalmers
Kukoc > Battier
Kerr > Miller
etc etc

Come on dude. Stop trying to revise history.

Even his older teams, I take Grant over Bosh.
No, you're being ridiculous. I think the late 90's Bulls might be a better built basketball team.

The Miami Heat are still more talented (removing the best player on each team) in comparison to both the early 90's Bulls and the late 90's Bulls.

You're really reaching. Trying to convince us Wade, Bosh, Battier are chopped liver.

Wade alone is better than Pippen. Either the early 90's or late 90's version. Stop stroking LeCawk

Chalmers is as good as BJ Armstrong. Their lineups are built similar. Only difference is apart from the best player, Miami is visibly more talented.

[Dbrog]

No, you're being ridiculous. I think the late 90's Bulls might be a better built basketball team.

The Miami Heat are still more talented (removing the best player on each team) in comparison to both the early 90's Bulls and the late 90's Bulls.

You're really reaching. Trying to convince us Wade, Bosh, Battier are chopped liver.

Wade alone is better than Pippen. Either the early 90's or late 90's version. Stop stroking LeCawk

Chalmers is as good as BJ Armstrong. Their lineups are built similar. Only difference is apart from the best player, Miami is visibly more talented.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[tontoz]

You talkin about Bird or Magic? Cause magic forced his way onto the Lakers. Heat aint even stacked compared to those teams. Hell, last year, their squad wasn't as good as MJs teams. Debatable whether they're even as stacked as the Thunder were w/ Harden and certainly not stacked like the current Lakers.


How did Magic force his way onto the Lakers.

[RedBlackAttack]

You talkin about Bird or Magic? Cause magic forced his way onto the Lakers. Heat aint even stacked compared to those teams. Hell, last year, their squad wasn't as good as MJs teams. Debatable whether they're even as stacked as the Thunder were w/ Harden and certainly not stacked like the current Lakers.
Again, the situations are entirely different and Magic did not "force" his way to the Lakers. This is obviously going to turn into a LeBron James conversation, and I will not partake in another one of those. When Wade recruited James and Bosh to the Heat, James had established himself as the best player in the league. Wade wasn't far behind him. In fact, I had him as the No. 2 player, others had him Top 3, your list would have been laughed at if he were outside your Top 5.

Bosh was an All-Star and Olympic level power forward. All three guys were either in their primes or approaching their primes. In fact, they were maybe the three most sought after free agents in the modern era. Every team in the league would have done cartwheels to get any one of the three... And they all signed on the same team.

That had never been done before.

But, it happened on a smaller scale later with CP3 going to the Clippers, Melo going to the Knicks and Howard and Nash going to the Lakers.


I'm saying that I don't recognize this era of the NBA as compared with what I grew up with, so save your "there were always stacked teams" argument. That is not the point. It is the way these teams are coming together that makes it different. If Magic and Bird had decided to play together in 1986, that would have been comparable. If Jordan and Ewing had teamed up after the Bulls were ousted by the Pistons in 1990, that would have been comparable. It didn't happen.

You are entitled to your opinion. Maybe you think this is a fantastic trend and hope it continues. I don't.

Not much more to say.

[Dbrog]

How did Magic force his way onto the Lakers.

Surprised you don't know actually. Also, suspect trade from New Orleans led to Magic on top of this. Also, later a suspect trade from the Cavs led to Worthy too.


And in the case of Magic Johnson, Mike has done his homework. He found a Mike Downey L.A. Times article from 1991:

Magic Johnson would have returned to Michigan State rather than play for the Chicago Bulls.

"I'd have stayed in school," he said here Tuesday, standing alone outside Gate 3 1/2 of Chicago Stadium, the house that could have been his. "A coin toss changed the course of my whole life." Chicago called heads in a 1979 coin flip with Los Angeles for the No. 1 pick in the NBA college draft. It came up tails.

Johnson signed with the Lakers after his sophomore year of college and proceeded to win five championships. The Bulls picked second, took UCLA's David Greenwood and have won no championships.

"I wouldn't have played here," Johnson said on the eve of Game 2 of the NBA finals between his team and the team that could have been his. "The only reason I came out was to play with Kareem and the Lakers."

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/18462/magic-johnson-sought-elite-teammates-too

[Nevaeh]

How did Magic force his way onto the Lakers.


Magic said something along the lines of "If I don't get to play with Kareem, then I'll just stay in college another year instead of turning pro". He basically wanted to make sure that he would have strong, competent teammates that would complement his playing style. He didn't want to suffer through years of teammates dropping his "no-look" passes game after game.

[CLTHornets4eva]

mj is clearly a narcissist

So is EVERY NBA athlete. :facepalm

[RedBlackAttack]

Magic said something along the lines of "If I don't get to play with Kareem, then I'll just stay in college another year instead of turning pro". He basically wanted to make sure that he would have strong, competent teammates that would complement his playing style. He didn't want to suffer through years of teammates dropping his "no-look" passes game after game.
The Lakers acquired that pick years earlier in the Gail Goodrich deal with the Jazz. The Lakers owned that first round pick, before anyone even knew how great Magic would be or that he would be in that draft. The Jazz had the worst record in the league in 1979 (before the lottery) and the Lakers got Magic as a result.

Again, how is this remotely comparable? Because Magic said he would prefer to play for a good team?

[Dbrog]

For the record, I could care less about a Lebron conversation. Too many of those on here. And obviously the reason MJ/Magic/Bird didn't leave their teams was because they had good management and were surrounded by some of the best talent in the league. Why on earth would they leave that?

Bron was on the fricken Cavs and Wade was struggling with Beasley as his 2nd leading scorer. I don't even need to mention what Bosh was dealing with. I was actually really shocked Bron didn't go to NY though. Still, we would just be talking about them right now cause they woulda gotten Melo, CP, or Dwight to play with him. He was destined to play with great superstars because he's a great player and dudes in unfortunate situations want to play with him.

[Dbrog]

Not to mention, Celtics are the reason for the "superfriends" anyway. Think about it, you're a talented but impressionable kid coming into the league leading your team to the playoffs and keep getting beat by the same team which happened to stack superstars. What effect would this have on you? Not surprising what it did to the influx of young players IMO.

On topic: clearly Jordan isn't planning a comeback. He's just trying to be a healthier dude. He obviously wouldn't come back and suffer the humiliation of being destroyed by players he woulda considered scrubs back in the day.

[RedBlackAttack]

For the record, I could care less about a Lebron conversation. Too many of those on here. And obviously the reason MJ/Magic/Bird didn't leave their teams was because they had good management and were surrounded by some of the best talent in the league. Why on earth would they leave that?

Bron was on the fricken Cavs and Wade was struggling with Beasley as his 2nd leading scorer. I don't even need to mention what Bosh was dealing with. I was actually really shocked Bron didn't go to NY though. Still, we would just be talking about them right now cause they woulda gotten Melo, CP, or Dwight to play with him. He was destined to play with great superstars because he's a great player and dudes in unfortunate situations want to play with him.
Like I said, I'm giving my opinion on this era. You are telling me the reasons the decisions were made. I couldn't care less about any of that. It doesn't change the fact that the formation of these teams (not just the Heat) were done in a manner different than anything we had seen prior... And I don't like it.

Jordan could not clear the Boston/Detroit hurdles for a long, long time. People underestimate the amount of heat he was taking in his formative years for not being able to break through, though most basketball enthusiasts knew he was the best talent in the game.

Yes, for him to jump ship to say the Knicks in the East or the Blazers out West would have almost assured a championship... almost certainly a dynasty, because those teams were on the precipice of winning titles in that 1988-90 era.

For every Magic/Bird, there was a Dominique Wilkins, who was a great player in his prime, but just couldn't break through in the playoffs. He stayed with the Hawks until he was 35-years-old. For every Jordan, there was a Patrick Ewing or Clyde Drexler or Karl Malone, who just couldn't break through that title wall on their own. They did not all join the same team.

Things were different. Can we just agree on that? I'm saying I prefer it the way it was. If you feel differently, that is your prerogative.

I've already got people telling me they can't wait for Kyrie Irving to leave the Cavs so he can team up with other future superstars. It is an odd time in the NBA.

[RedBlackAttack]

Not to mention, Celtics are the reason for the "superfriends" anyway. Think about it, you're a talented but impressionable kid coming into the league leading your team to the playoffs and keep getting beat by the same team which happened to stack superstars. What effect would this have on you? Not surprising what it did to the influx of young players IMO.

On topic: clearly Jordan isn't planning a comeback. He's just trying to be a healthier dude. He obviously wouldn't come back and suffer the humiliation of being destroyed by players he woulda considered scrubs back in the day.
The Celtics certainly planted the seed in these young guys' heads, I think. I agree with that. But, there are noticeable differences. Ray Allen and KG were either on the verge of being past their prime or already there.

We're talking about the best players in the NBA in their primes joining forces. It is just different and it has changed the way we talk about young teams trying to build the old fashioned way, through the draft and with good cap management. How much time do you have before your centerpiece bolts to join other centerpieces?

[Dbrog]

I see what you're saying and I can certainly agree things are completely different right now. Now, again, why would Malone leave? I mean, he came very close to beating Jordan twice before giving up. Ewing always did well and had a lot of nice pieces on his team. Drex did leave obviously to join the best player in the NBA. Point is, I feel that franchises were ran better back then...more competent management. Still, that's fine. You don't like players signing wherever they want even though they are free agents. That's fine. So I'm guessing you would endorse things like franchise tagging (think thats what its called)? It would certainly make things interesting. Hurt me seeing Garnett rot in Minny though :( .

[RedBlackAttack]

I see what you're saying and I can certainly agree things are completely different right now. Now, again, why would Malone leave? I mean, he came very close to beating Jordan twice before giving up. Ewing always did well and had a lot of nice pieces on his team. Drex did leave obviously to join the best player in the NBA. Point is, I feel that franchises were ran better back then...more competent management. Still, that's fine. You don't like players signing wherever they want even though they are free agents. That's fine. So I'm guessing you would endorse things like franchise tagging (think thats what its called)? It would certainly make things interesting. Hurt me seeing Garnett rot in Minny though :( .
I'm pretty hardcore... I'm for a hard cap. Franchise tags would be a great step, I think.

As for Malone and Ewing, those teams were great because the franchise was given adequate time and space to build around two truly great players. You take Ewing off of those 1990s Knicks teams and they aren't competing in the Eastern Conference. I don't even think they are playoff teams.

That's the thing with truly great players... It is sometimes hard to tell how great teams would be without them because (A) the better franchises build their lineups around their best players, so of course you take that guy out of the equation and they fall apart and (B) it is impossible to know for sure how good those teams would have been without those important growth years with great players. What would those Celtics teams have been in the early-to-mid 80s if you take away everything that Bird did from the start of his pro career or the Lakers without Magic?

Keep in mind, a great player doesn't just have a huge impact on what you see come gametime, he has a huge impact on how a team practices, how young players grow and how a team comes together. Often times, it can look like a team is superhuman after having a decade to work with an all-time great player, but you tell the franchise to go back and build something similar without having the luxury of an all-time great in the lockerroom or on the practice floor for all that time, things can turn out differently.

I just don't think basketball on its highest level is as simple as, throw a bunch of talent into a bowl and get a winner. We are seeing that now with the Lakers. We saw it the first year with the Heat, when from a talent standpoint, they should have smoked the Mavs in the Finals.

I like the idea of a guy working through the ups-and-downs of a young franchise and watching him break through barriers that may have once seemed insurmountable. When guys are jumping ship at the first opportunity, it takes away a lot of the spirit of the thing, imo. I've never thought getting a ring was the most important thing for great players, like other posters have asserted. The journey is a huge part of a great player's legacy, I think.

I know not everyone agrees and that is fine. Just my two cents.

[Dbrog]

The journey is for sure the reason why I love sports as well. It's not like these guys left first chance tough. They were with their teams for what? 7 or 8 years. Jordan only played 15 and Bird less than that to put it into perspective. I think putting in a hard cap could definitely be an interesting thing. I would be worried of it turning out like the 90s though. Basically almost every team only has 1 superstar player and then once a player gets another, they instantly rise to the top (see Jordan after Pips emergence and Hakeem after he got Drex). I feel that it actually leads to less parity. 90s basically ended up with a hard cap since there were so many expansion teams which cut team talent tremendously IMO.

[DMAVS41]

I agree. I think there was a large subsection of NBA players who didn't look kindly on the whole teaming up thing. I think the future of the game is in good hands. In addition to the guys you mentioned, watching the rookie/sophomore game last night, I was pretty excited about the level of talent displayed on the floor. And, Kyrie, Faried, Rubio, etc. seem like they have some 'old school' in them.



No, I'm not just talking about James. As far as I'm concerned, Dwyane Wade was the guy who really made all that happen. He convinced James to buy-in to the concept.

And, this isn't just about the Miami Heat... It is happening out West too, with the Clippers and the Lakers. My criticism is not limited to just one player, although he is the best player in the league, so this will ultimately be remembered as his era.

I don't want to get into the whole Cleveland thing... This conversation has nothing to do with that. The fan in me would have been taken aback if Wade and Bosh had come to Cleveland. I thought the idea of these guys teaming up was totally bizarre when it was first seriously discussed on here. Go back and read the posts.

It is just an era of basketball I can't relate to.

I get it. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with your view or anything like that.

I'm simply saying that the only way these guys can put themselves in a position to legitimately win titles is to do what they did. There are many reasons for this, but the main one in my opinion is how we (fans, media, former players..etc.) judge them.

It is simply win a title or multiple titles...or you aren't great. I watched Dirk slave for over a decade to win a title. And it's not like he didn't play on really good team...but in his conference alone each year there was always at least 1 or 2 teams with more talent and better coaching. If he didn't put up the legendary performance in the 11 playoffs and win the title...he'd be remembered as a guy that couldnt' win a title....even though it would be completely unfair.

Honestly the best way to change the "team up" trend is for everyone to stop judging players so heavily on winning titles. Because these guys care a lot more about their place in history or legacies than they lead on.

[RedBlackAttack]

The journey is for sure the reason why I love sports as well. It's not like these guys left first chance tough. They were with their teams for what? 7 or 8 years. Jordan only played 15 and Bird less than that to put it into perspective.
True, but those guys also came into the NBA at a very different level in terms of competing, at least if you're talking about James or the other high school guys. It took a good three years before he was at the level of age and experience that he could be the centerpiece on a playoff level team.

By his third year, Bird was already groomed an experienced enough to lead a team to a title. Completely different scenarios.

Also, I'm not even saying that James should have been relegated to staying with the Cavs if he didn't want to. There were plenty of other options on the table. I just do not like the super friends idea and that is what has changed the way we look at young teams and their timetables to work around great young players.

If James had gone to the Knicks, they would have still had to do some building around him and it would have taken some finesse by the franchise to get a title. There would have been a journey to get there. I'm sorry, but this Heat thing feels different and, if the Lakers would have lived up to their hype, it would have felt the same way.

I'm just not a fan and it looks like the NBA execs agree with me, judging by the way they went about trying to change the CBA.



I think putting in a hard cap could definitely be an interesting thing. I would be worried of it turning out like the 90s though. Basically almost every team only has 1 superstar player and then once a player gets another, they instantly rise to the top (see Jordan after Pips emergence and Hakeem after he got Drex). I feel that it actually leads to less parity. 90s basically ended up with a hard cap since there were so many expansion teams which cut team talent tremendously IMO.

There would be downsides to it, no doubt. But, I'm so turned off by the way today's superstars have handled free agency, I'm willing to maybe go even a little too far in the other direction to change this culture which has seeped in.

[Dbrog]

Meh...I guess it just doesn't feel very different to me since I know how quickly everyone forgets "the journey" once a dude wins a chip and then "the journey" becomes how long their dynasty lasts. At the end of the day like I have posted earlier in this thread, there have been much better teams put together than this Heat team therefor it doesn't matter to me "how" it happened. Like I said though, I was pretty surprised Bron didn't go to the Knicks...and also like I said, we woulda just been talking about how it "feels wrong" that Dwight, Melo or CP joined Bron and Chandler in NY.

As far as execs are concerned, they are just money hungry/stingy and that's all there is too it. As has been proven an infinite number of times, the teams with the best management always have a good team whether they are small or big market. The lockout was the most BS thing I've ever seen.

[RedBlackAttack]

I get it. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with your view or anything like that.

I'm simply saying that the only way these guys can put themselves in a position to legitimately win titles is to do what they did. There are many reasons for this, but the main one in my opinion is how we (fans, media, former players..etc.) judge them.

It is simply win a title or multiple titles...or you aren't great. I watched Dirk slave for over a decade to win a title. And it's not like he didn't play on really good team...but in his conference alone each year there was always at least 1 or 2 teams with more talent and better coaching. If he didn't put up the legendary performance in the 11 playoffs and win the title...he'd be remembered as a guy that couldnt' win a title....even though it would be completely unfair.

Honestly the best way to change the "team up" trend is for everyone to stop judging players so heavily on winning titles. Because these guys care a lot more about their place in history or legacies than they lead on.
Totally agree. And I've never been one of those "rings at all costs" type of historian.

The journey has always been extremely important to me when gauging players. That seems to be something that this generation is losing. Pretty much agree with everything you said, though.

[KOBE143]

Pls dont comeback Mike.. Dont embarrass yourself playing in the league of full of athletic players.. This is not the 80s and 90s anymore where you can still play even at age 50+.. The embarrassment you receive from Kobe in your Wizard tenure was already too much for you to handle.. For god sake dont destroy your legacy Mike.. David Stern did everything he can just to build that legacy.. So dont waste his effort..

[Funnyfuka]

prolly depressed cause his life is pointless without playing ball; doing drugs, ****ing models and abusing everything under the sun for decades gets old it seems.

[Dbrog]

omg the Jordan haters! haha

[kNicKz]

Pls dont comeback Mike.. Dont embarrass yourself playing in the league of full of athletic players.. This is not the 80s and 90s anymore where you can still play even at age 50+.. The embarrassment you receive from Kobe in your Wizard tenure was already too much for you to handle.. For god sake dont destroy your legacy Mike.. David Stern did everything he can just to build that legacy.. So dont waste his effort..
f-cking troll

[KDthunderup]

Just let him juice

[kmartshopper]

gotta be some crazy experimental stuff out there that can help him make a comeback. Yall know how they do out in eastern Europe/Japan. might cost 20 mil but c'mon. he might die in the process but judging from that article that might be a risk he's willIng to take

[LBJFTW]

So a retired basketball player who still plays basketball on a daily basis, coming back to play basketball, would be as legendary as a human being coming back from the dead after 15+ years???

Wasn't Pac recently spotted in Madagascar?

[Hank]

Lebrons greatness is eating Jordan alive inside. It's killing him :lol

Lebron is a combination of Jordan, Bird, and Magic. He could score 50 pts a night if he wanted to.

Lebron is so good and dominant, he's making the rest of the league look like scrubs. And a player hasn't done that to the league in a very long time. And believe you me Jordan knows.. and he knows he has to witness another 10 years of this as Lebron is only 28.

Heh

[mlh1981]

Good for him. We all remember him as being that finely tuned athlete. Now? He looks like a linebacker

[JMT]

I don't. I already saw the majority of his career when he was actually in his prime, including every game of the Bulls' titles years. With this being the case, why would I care to see him at 50? I'm not some kid who never saw Jordan, nor am I someone whose only live recollection of him is from his Wizards years and had to watch YouTube clips to see what he was like. I saw it all as it was actually happening. I don't believe I watched a single game while he was on the Wizards, so why would I want to watch him now? If it actually happens, I still maintain it's pathetic. It would mean that even after all his riches and his fame, he still can't let go and move on with his life. Which goes to show that more money that most people could ever dream of isn't what people think it is, and can't buy contentment.

:cheers:

[DMAVS41]

It would be fun to see him try. It always confuses me as to why anything a person tries is met with such disdain at times.

A 50 year old playing in the NBA is simply a fascinating story and achievement. Doesn't matter if it was MJ or some other player. But the idea that it would be MJ makes it an even bigger deal of course.

And I don't know how it does any type of disservice to the game or MJ's legacy. The only way it would be a negative is if he just didn't belong out there at all. But I'd imagine that even a 50 year old MJ for 10 to 15 minutes a game would be a net positive for a team...and that is strictly speaking on the court during games.

I hope he's out there right now listening to all the people saying he can't do it...and it's driving him to do it.

Really...why not? You only live once. You'll never know until you try.

[guy]

I'm obviously a huge Jordan fan, but I got to say that he clearly has some issues. Hopefully, he can get over them at some point, but if it hasn't happened yet, then I doubt he ever will.

I can kind of see how someone can't get over being that high on the mountaintop and then for it to be gone. It makes me wonder if people would be better off in life if they didn't become THAT successful at something in the first place.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I'm obviously a huge Jordan fan, but I got to say that he clearly has some issues. Hopefully, he can get over them at some point, but if it hasn't happened yet, then I doubt he ever will.

I can kind of see how someone can't get over being that high on the mountaintop and then for it to be gone. It makes me wonder if people would be better off in life if they didn't become THAT successful at something in the first place.

Yeah, no sh!t. The guy is a sociopath. :oldlol:

[guy]

It would be fun to see him try. It always confuses me as to why anything a person tries is met with such disdain at times.

A 50 year old playing in the NBA is simply a fascinating story and achievement. Doesn't matter if it was MJ or some other player. But the idea that it would be MJ makes it an even bigger deal of course.

And I don't know how it does any type of disservice to the game or MJ's legacy. The only way it would be a negative is if he just didn't belong out there at all. But I'd imagine that even a 50 year old MJ for 10 to 15 minutes a game would be a net positive for a team...and that is strictly speaking on the court during games.

I hope he's out there right now listening to all the people saying he can't do it...and it's driving him to do it.

Really...why not? You only live once. You'll never know until you try.

I wouldn't want to see it, but I agree with what you're saying. On a similar note, I never understood why fans and the media criticize a player for not retiring at a certain point just because they've declined significantly. Alot of times, they say it ruins their legacy. I've never understood how it does, and even if it did I never understood how anyone should think someone should retire even if they clearly still have a love for what they're doing.

[guy]

Yeah, no sh!t. The guy is a sociopath. :oldlol:

Seriously, I'm not saying he's suicidal or anything, but I'd be less surprised if he was after reading that article.

I just watched the Sir Charles at 50 special, and its kinda interesting how the two seem to have such an opposite perspective on life. Chuck clearly appreciates the life he's lived and couldn't expect more, and you could clearly tell he's happy. Jordan on the other hand doesn't seem like he can and is still looking for more. With that being the case, you wouldn't think it was Jordan that was so much more successful then Barkley. Same thing with Magic. You look at him and Jordan and you wouldn't think he was the one living with HIV.

[upside24]

He probably could play limited minutes but I don't see what would be gained by doing so.

I just don't see MJ being a role player playing limited minutes.

[Cherry Picker]

Lakers should try and get Wilt to make a comeback. He's still play better D than Dwight

[DMAVS41]

I wouldn't want to see it, but I agree with what you're saying. On a similar note, I never understood why fans and the media criticize a player for not retiring at a certain point just because they've declined significantly. Alot of times, they say it ruins their legacy. I've never understood how it does, and even if it did I never understood how anyone should think someone should retire even if they clearly still have a love for what they're doing.

I'd want to see it just to see it. If that makes sense. I just think it would be so cool that he'd even be willing to try.

It's not like he could die or something. Worst case scenario is that he just can't play or he's too injury prone or something.

I would just find it hard to believe that 40 years from now when he's 90...he'll look back at this (just for fun lets imagine he does it) and says..."damn, i wish i never gave it a try at 50"

What could possibly happen that would cause that? People just need to drop this entire notion that certain athletes are superhumans or something. MJ got crossed up by Iverson back in the day...and i wouldn't be any more embarrassing or something to watch him get crossed up by Kyrie Irving now.

But to watch him make a game winner? To watch him make a fade away? To watch him shut down a wing in the post? It would be crazy fun....

[RedBlackAttack]

I'd want to see it just to see it. If that makes sense. I just think it would be so cool that he'd even be willing to try.

It's not like he could die or something. Worst case scenario is that he just can't play or he's too injury prone or something.

I would just find it hard to believe that 40 years from now when he's 90...he'll look back at this (just for fun lets imagine he does it) and says..."damn, i wish i never gave it a try at 50"

What could possibly happen that would cause that? People just need to drop this entire notion that certain athletes are superhumans or something. MJ got crossed up by Iverson back in the day...and i wouldn't be any more embarrassing or something to watch him get crossed up by Kyrie Irving now.

But to watch him make a game winner? To watch him make a fade away? To watch him shut down a wing in the post? It would be crazy fun....
That's pretty much how I feel. There is nothing that a 50-year-old Michael Jordan could do that would taint or erase the things he did when he was 28.

Fact is, if he wanted to leave at the perfect moment with the best possible lasting memory, his second retirement was the way to go... Holding that form on the game-winning jumper in the close-out game of the NBA Finals.

And, as far as I'm concerned, that was the final memory of Michael Jordan, the greatest player to ever play the game. He came back with the Wizards and was still very good (underrated how good he was on those teams), but obviously not the same guy from 1998 and clearly not the player from 1993.

The way I look at it, Jordan had four stages... 1984-1990, the greatest talent in the league, but couldn't get over that final hurdle. 1991-93, seemingly invincible on a basketball court. 1995-98, maybe a little less invincible, but with advanced tricks/skills to make up for it. And 2001-02, owner/player who gave us an encore.

I'd be fine with a fifth chapter... The old man against the young bucks. Sure, he may take some lumps, but as a sports fan, it would be fun to see.