Now that Kobe has decided to be a facilitator, is he better at it than Lebron James?

[CavaliersFTW]

It's worth discussing

[Mr. Jabbar]

Yes.

[Batz]

Lets see if he can facilitate his way to a championship, let alone make the playoffs.

[TheMarkMadsen]

What I love about the way Kobe is playing is that in the clutch he's still the same old mamba that can hit a dagger ( OKC ) but at the same time he's now looking to not force the issue & get the team the best shot wether it be him taking it or not like we saw against the hornets

[Nash]

When he does it while averaging 25ppg+ and shooting over 50% through a full season then we can talk.

[tikay0]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/526296_379611362110305_980374032_n.jpg

[SpaceJammeR]

lol really? 3 games in only...

[imdaman99]

look here matey, if kobe wanted to do this his entire career, then he could have. but he realized 5 rings is more important than lucking into 1.

[KyrieTheFuture]

But seriously when are you going to get over the fact that he left Cleveland?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Lets Kobe do it for 10 seasons like LeBron. OP is still a butthurt LeBron dumped his team on national televison :oldlol:

[Nash]

look here matey, if kobe wanted to do this his entire career, then he could have. but he realized 5 rings is more important than lucking into 1.
And if Lebron wanted to score like Kobe he would average 35ppg+ and shot at 45%.

[tikay0]

As a Bulls fan. I should never ever be propping up LBJ like this, but the Kobe slurping has gotten to all time levels.

I give it up to you Heat fans. You guys have been surprisingly cordial lately.

I haven't seen a LBJ thread in weeks.

[TylerOO]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/526296_379611362110305_980374032_n.jpg
:applause: :applause: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[funnystuff]

look here matey, if kobe wanted to do this his entire career, then he could have. but he realized 5 rings is more important than lucking into 1.
Yeah playing with prime Shaq wasnt luck.

[DMV2]

I'm diggin' new Kobe system.

[Djahjaga]

:wtf:

I know you're a Cavs fan, but damn.

[Mr. Jabbar]

And if Lebron wanted to score like Kobe he would average 35ppg+ and shot at 45%.

Lol, lebron would shoot around 19% taking as many shots as kobe. Have you seen this guys jumpshot? :facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I give it up to you Heat fans.

:oldlol:

[imdaman99]

And if Lebron wanted to score like Kobe he would average 35ppg+ and shot at 45%.
but still pass to haslem in the clutch :bowdown:

[SilkkTheShocker]

look here matey, if kobe wanted to do this his entire career, then he could have. but he realized 5 rings is more important than lucking into 1.


Congrats on Kobe getting drafted to the same team as Prime Shaq :applause: A little different than being drafted by Cleveland

[SilkkTheShocker]

Lol, lebron would shoot around 19% taking as many shots as kobe. Have you seen this guys jumpshot? :facepalm

He led the league in scoring with a broken jumper in 07-08

[tikay0]

:oldlol:

Trust me. Once the Playoffs roll around, they're my mortal enemies. Honestly though, you gotta admit. They haven't been straight up douche baggerish, slob knobbin, jack asses like the Kobe/Laker nation.

[cotdt]

Lebron doesn't average 13 assists like Kobe has so far, or shoot at 65% FG.

[imdaman99]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/526296_379611362110305_980374032_n.jpg
pretty sure if lebron ever played with shaq and won 3 titles, he would have 0 finals mvps as well.

shaq dominated the east in the finals, mj couldn't have even stole finals MVPs from shaq.

i dont get how that is some sort of insult to kobe :confusedshrug:

[Mr. Jabbar]

He led the league in scoring with a broken jumper in 07-08

It was all dunks. Poor mans Andray Blatche cant shoot an elephant @ point blank

[tikay0]

pretty sure if lebron ever played with shaq and won 3 titles, he would have 0 finals mvps as well.

shaq dominated the east in the finals, mj couldn't have even stole finals MVPs from shaq.

i dont get how that is some sort of insult to kobe :confusedshrug:

Pretty sure if LBJ was playing with prime Shaq, they'd both have 7-8 rings by now. Not to mention LBJ's scoring would've taken a hit, but his assists would be at astronomical levels, even with the triangle.

I'm sure Phil would've modified the triangle to bring out the best in both Shaq and LBJ.

[DonDadda59]

If Kobe is a better facilitator than Lebron after only 3 games (leading HOFers to lottery status), then Michael Jordan is by far the best point guard in the history of basketball:

[INDENT]March 21, 1989

Doug Collins decided to move Jordan to the point guard spot against Seattle on March 11, 1989. He finished that game with 15 assists. Two days later, he had a game of 21/14/14 against the Pacers in just 30 minutes of playing time in a 32-point blowout win. He reached the triple double mark in just 21 minutes.

[B][COLOR="Red"]Jordan continued to play at the PG spot until the end of the season. In these 24 games he averaged 29.3ppg, 8.9rpg, 10.6 apg, 2.4spg. Between March 24 and April 14, 1989, he recorded a triple double in ten of the eleven games, including seven consecutive ones. In the game he didn

[Heavincent]

And if Lebron wanted to score like Kobe he would average 35ppg+ and shot at 45%.

:roll:

[imdaman99]

Pretty sure if LBJ was playing with prime Shaq, they'd both have 7-8 rings by now. Not to mention LBJ's scoring would've taken a hit, but his assists would be at astronomical levels, even with the triangle.

I'm sure Phil would've modified the triangle to bring out the best in both Shaq and LBJ.
so now all of a sudden shaq nor lebron have an ego. i can see lebron settling to be #2, but shaq hated the attention kobe and wade got. im pretty sure he didnt like penny stealing his fame in orlando either. so yeah, 7-8 rings. doubt it dude. plus, kobe took over in 4th quarters against the spurs, with bruce bowen even. lebron shrunk against the spurs. so whos to say they ever get by them. maybe once or twice.

[SilkkTheShocker]

:roll:


Average 31.4 in 06 at a 48% clip. I know you're a die hard Kobe d.ick rider, but LeBron would have no problem putting those numbers up

[tikay0]

so now all of a sudden shaq nor lebron have an ego. i can see lebron settling to be #2, but shaq hated the attention kobe and wade got. im pretty sure he didnt like penny stealing his fame in orlando either. so yeah, 7-8 rings. doubt it dude. plus, kobe took over in 4th quarters against the spurs, with bruce bowen even. lebron shrunk against the spurs. so whos to say they ever get by them. maybe once or twice.

Who was that big, 7'2 monster of a man that was playing along side Kobe, when he was going off?

Who were that pathetic bunch of scrubs that were playing along side LBJ, when he faced the Spurs?

[The Iron Fist]

Lets see if he can facilitate his way to a championship, let alone make the playoffs.:biggums:
He didn't facilitate for five titles already?

[CavaliersFTW]

:facepalm so a guy can't make a thread comparing Kobe's recent facilitating tear to Lebron w/o being accused of being a Kobe stan / Laker fan / Lebron hater / "butthurt cavs fan"

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

I don't hate Lebron James, and I don't love Kobe (seriously, ask his real stans, they've argued with me many times) - I'm not slurping Kobe or the Lakers, nor am I dissing the Heat, or Lebron, I'm asking a f*cking question to drum up discussion, chill the eff out

- Kobe in facilitating mode has been beasting it with setting up teammates the past 3 games. Yes, it's only 3 games. where as Lebron is an all-time facilitating forward his entire career and I wholeheartedly acknowledge this. The question isn't about who has been better for a career, the question/comparison is simple, for the last 3 games that Kobe has been in facilitating mode, has he been doing as good a job or better than Lebron has? Small sample pool no shit, but who cares, it's not an insult to Lebron to have such a comparison stop getting your panties in a knot you sensitive Lebron stans - jesus christ you stans act like such ph@66its this is why team fans >>>>>>> stans

[Mr. Jabbar]

:facepalm so a guy can't make a thread comparing Kobe's recent facilitating tear to Lebron w/o being accused of being a Kobe stan / Laker fan / Lebron hater / "butthurt cavs fan"

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

I don't hate Lebron James, and I don't love Kobe (seriously, ask his real stans, they've argued with me many times) - I'm not slurping Kobe or the Lakers, nor am I dissing the Heat, or Lebron, I'm asking a f*cking question to drum up discussion, chill the eff out

- Kobe in facilitating mode has been beasting it with setting up teammates the past 3 games. Yes, it's only 3 games. where as Lebron is an all-time facilitating forward his entire career and I wholeheartedly acknowledge this. The question isn't about who has been better for a career, the question/comparison is simple, for the last 3 games that Kobe has been in facilitating mode, has he been doing as good a job or better than Lebron has? Small sample pool no shit, but who cares, it's not an insult to Lebron to have such a comparison stop getting your panties in a knot you sensitive Lebron stans - jesus christ you stans act like such ph@66its this is why team fans >>>>>>> stans

You shouldn't apologize for bashing Lebron, its the right thing to do. :cheers:

[CavaliersFTW]

You shouldn't apologize for bashing Lebron, its the right thing to do. :cheers:
:facepalm I'm not bashing Lebron at all, Lebron for his career has been a facilitator unlike Kobe who has always been a shoot first pass second player. It's just how he is, Kobe would rather score than pass, and Lebron is hardwired a little different he likes to pass first score second. Now, Kobe seems to have changed gears the past few games, perhaps only even temporarily I don't know, all I'm doing is comparing this current "facilitator" version of Kobe to Lebron's facilitating abilities and Lebron fans are having an absolute shit fit. I'm not bashing Lebron, but right now his stan-base is acting like a bunch of overly sensitive idiots and exposing themselves. If you look a these two objectivey, this should be considered a worthy discussion. But I guess everyone's stan goggles are permanetly glued to their face.

[DonDadda59]

:facepalm so a guy can't make a thread comparing Kobe's recent facilitating tear to Lebron w/o being accused of being a Kobe stan / Laker fan / Lebron hater / "butthurt cavs fan"

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

I don't hate Lebron James, and I don't love Kobe (seriously, ask his real stans, they've argued with me many times) - I'm not slurping Kobe or the Lakers, nor am I dissing the Heat, or Lebron, I'm asking a f*cking question to drum up discussion, chill the eff out

- Kobe in facilitating mode has been beasting it with setting up teammates the past 3 games. Yes, it's only 3 games. where as Lebron is an all-time facilitating forward his entire career and I wholeheartedly acknowledge this. The question isn't about who has been better for a career, the question/comparison is simple, for the last 3 games that Kobe has been in facilitating mode, has he been doing as good a job or better than Lebron has? Small sample pool no shit, but who cares, it's not an insult to Lebron to have such a comparison stop getting your panties in a knot you sensitive Lebron stans - jesus christ you stans act like such ph@66its this is why team fans >>>>>>> stans

No offense since you're a solid poster IMO, but this is a stupid question. You pointed it out yourself, it's only 3 games. I pointed out that MJ had a 24 game stretch where he averaged 29.3ppg, 8.9rpg, 10.6 apg including recording 10 triple doubles in 11 games, with 7 consecutive. If ISH existed then and I asked 'Is MJ now a better facilitator than Magic?', I would expect to be laughed off the damn internet and with good reason.

Let's be real.

[SilkkTheShocker]

:facepalm I'm not bashing Lebron at all, Lebron for his career has been a facilitator unlike Kobe who has always been a shoot first pass second player. It's just how he is, Kobe would rather score than pass, and Lebron is hardwired a little different he likes to pass first score second. Now, Kobe seems to have changed gears the past few games, perhaps only even temporarily I don't know, all I'm doing is comparing this current "facilitator" version of Kobe to Lebron's facilitating abilities and Lebron fans are having an absolute shit fit. I'm not bashing Lebron, but right now his stan-base is acting like a bunch of overly sensitive idiots and exposing themselves. If you look a these two objectivey, this should be considered a worthy discussion. But I guess everyone's stan goggles are permanetly glued to their face.


Cliff notes for those that didn't read the aboe post: "IM STILL EXTREMELY BUTTHURT"

[Mr. Jabbar]

:facepalm I'm not bashing Lebron at all, Lebron for his career has been a facilitator unlike Kobe who has always been a shoot first pass second player. It's just how he is, Kobe would rather score than pass, and Lebron is hardwired a little different he likes to pass first score second. Now, Kobe seems to have changed gears the past few games, perhaps only even temporarily I don't know, all I'm doing is comparing this current "facilitator" version of Kobe to Lebron's facilitating abilities and Lebron fans are having an absolute shit fit. I'm not bashing Lebron, but right now his stan-base is acting like a bunch of overly sensitive idiots and exposing themselves right now.

Why would you take anything the lebron fanbase has to say seriously anyway? These are 10 year olds we're talking about...They started watching basketball (or should I say boxscores) just a few seasons ago.

[SpaceJammeR]

No offense since you're a solid poster IMO, but this is a stupid question. You pointed it out yourself, it's only 3 games. I pointed out that MJ had a 24 game stretch where he averaged 29.3ppg, 8.9rpg, 10.6 apg including recording 10 triple doubles in 11 games, with 7 consecutive. If ISH existed then and I asked 'Is MJ now a better facilitator than Magic?', I would expect to be laughed off the damn internet and with good reason.

Let's be real.

/end thread

the lebron hate is ridiculous. why don't you guys appreciate bron more, now that kobe is finally playing like him, and getting wins playing this way.

[Kingwillball]

Kobe fans need to accept that No matter WHAT he Does he is not and will not be better than Lebron. Lebron is the better team Player, All around Player and if they Played One on One Lebron would Destroy Kobe as well.

[tikay0]

:facepalm I'm not bashing Lebron at all, Lebron for his career has been a facilitator unlike Kobe who has always been a shoot first pass second player. It's just how he is, Kobe would rather score than pass, and Lebron is hardwired a little different he likes to pass first score second. Now, Kobe seems to have changed gears the past few games, perhaps only even temporarily I don't know, all I'm doing is comparing this current "facilitator" version of Kobe to Lebron's facilitating abilities and Lebron fans are having an absolute shit fit. I'm not bashing Lebron, but right now his stan-base is acting like a bunch of overly sensitive idiots and exposing themselves. If you look a these two objectivey, this should be considered a worthy discussion. But I guess everyone's stan goggles are permanetly glued to their face.

So you're saying that LBJ is naturally the better basketball player, IQ wise, team ball wise, and fundamentally???

[Mr. Jabbar]

Kobe fans need to accept that No matter WHAT he Does he is not and will not be better than Lebron. Lebron is the better team Player, All around Player and if they Played One on One Lebron would Destroy Kobe as well.

:roll:

[Kingwillball]

:roll:


Truth Hurts Brah.. BTW U are the Biggest Kobe Stan and Blind Idiot on ISH.

[CavaliersFTW]

No offense since you're a solid poster IMO, but this is a stupid question. You pointed it out yourself, it's only 3 games. I pointed out that MJ had a 24 game stretch where he averaged 29.3ppg, 8.9rpg, 10.6 apg including recording 10 triple doubles in 11 games, with 7 consecutive. If ISH existed then and I asked 'Is MJ now a better facilitator than Magic?', I would expect to be laughed off the damn internet and with good reason.

Let's be real.

No, comparing MJ to Magic is not a valid comparison it's a strawman argument to make my discussion topic look bad but it's a horrible analogy because MJ even in his stretch wasn't even reaching the same assist counts as Magic where as Kobe the past three games is averaging almost double the assists per game as Lebron - he's averaging THIRTEEN assists a game. Small window obviously, but it's the window I'm asking people to talk about - and people are getting offended. Maybe the window is too small for a valid discussion, but jesus people need to stop acting like it's offensive to bring such topics up.

[Mr. Jabbar]

No, comparing MJ to Magic is not a valid comparison it's a strawman argument because MJ even in his stretch wasn't even reaching the assist volumes as Magic. I specifically am referring to this stretch, and I'm not calling into question Lebron's career impact of facilitating. Kobe the past three games is averaging almost double the assists per game as Lebron - he's averaging 12 assists a game. Small window, but it's the window I'm asking people to talk about.

Well to answer your question. Kobe a way better facilitator because him having elite shooting and post game makes him the ultimate pick your poison machine, unlike brozy whos a one trick pony, hes either driving and dishing or clanking a brick.

[crisoner]

Who was that big, 7'2 monster of a man that was playing along side Kobe, when he was going off?

Who were that pathetic bunch of scrubs that were playing along side LBJ, when he faced the Spurs?

Again I love how all of a sudden LeBron's teammates in Cleveland have turned in to scrubs.

If we can only pull up the old posts from 07-10 and we can see how everybody loved talking about how that Cavs team was deep.

[Kingwillball]

No, comparing MJ to Magic is not a valid comparison it's a strawman argument to make my discussion topic look bad but it's a horrible analogy because MJ even in his stretch wasn't even reaching the same assist counts as Magic where as Kobe the past three games is averaging almost double the assists per game as Lebron - he's averaging THIRTEEN assists a game. Small window obviously, but it's the window I'm asking people to talk about - and people are getting offended. Maybe the window is too small for a valid discussion, but jesus people need to stop acting like it's offensive to bring such topics up.


OK, here is the Honest Answer. Kobe is a Good Passer and like most of the Greats has a good feel for the game. He has always been a Scorer and because of that almost pigeonholed himself as just that over the years. The Team Suffered because of it and he probably decided to try to take a Page out of Lebrons book knowing He has Talent around him that as being underused. The old adage if U cant beat em than join em. Now Defenses are So used to Kobe looking to shoot First they are Accustomed to playing him a certain way and there is always a 2nd and even 3rd Defender looking to close on him. Kobe is just making the SMART basketball play finding Wide open teammate who are finishing much Better since they now feel like they are being involved alot more. Now if this keeps Up Defenses will play Kobe different and he will have more one on one opportunities. At that point the Assists will be harder to get and he will probably go back to what he knows best which is shooting the basketball.

[pauk]

How is it worth discussing CavaliersFTW? The correct answer is no, these 3 games is a result of simply one extreme change of mindset (for Kobe its very extreme), its not like Kobes passing skills & vision all of the sudden catapulted... assists is not how you evaluate passing skills, vision or facilitating or whatever you want to call it... even in the assists category (or any category) Lebron is a much better passer... infact, the best non-PG facilitator i ever seen next to Larry Bird (excluding those first 3-4 years Magic played SG/SF)....

[DonDadda59]

No, comparing MJ to Magic is not a valid comparison it's a strawman argument to make my discussion topic look bad but it's a horrible analogy because MJ even in his stretch wasn't even reaching the same assist counts as Magic where as Kobe the past three games is averaging almost double the assists per game as Lebron - he's averaging THIRTEEN assists a game. Small window obviously, but it's the window I'm asking people to talk about - and people are getting offended. Maybe the window is too small for a valid discussion, but jesus people need to stop acting like it's offensive to bring such topics up.

Ok, here's a few small windows from the '09-'10 season alone (where Lebron averaged 8.6 APG, a # Kobe couldn't reach in his dreams):

(11/28/09-12/6/10): 12, 10, 11, 10
Average of 10.75 APG

(1/27/10-2/2/10): 11, 13, 11, 15
Average of 12.5 APG

(2/9/10-2/13/10): 11, 13, 15
Average of 13 APG (*Scored 32 2x, 43/13Rbs/15 Asts trip
double during stretch)

So the answer to the ridiculous question in the OP is a resounding NO. All people with basic sense already knew that though.

/Thread.

[talkingconch]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/526296_379611362110305_980374032_n.jpg
bahahaha lebron will never b goat :bowdown:

kobe was picked 13th out of draft 2-3yrs of career = bench player, and surpassed all expectations

lebron out of draft instantly = The Godly Cleveland Cavaliers Savior :bowdown: = meaning he runs the show. Failed to win a chip and left to join 2 allstars to and failed again his first year.

**** up stan

[tikay0]

pretty sure if lebron ever played with shaq and won 3 titles, he would have 0 finals mvps as well.

shaq dominated the east in the finals, mj couldn't have even stole finals MVPs from shaq.

i dont get how that is some sort of insult to kobe :confusedshrug:

Then by your line of thinking. Kobe would have 0 rings by age 27, if he never played with Shaq. Goes both ways.

[pauk]

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Untitled-2-2.png



...im sure he would got even more assists during that span if he didnt average 31.7 ppg (and higher average than 8.6 for the entire season, highest by any non-PG in NBA history)....

[G-Funk]

If he wanted to. two more assist and he averages 7, were talking about Lebron here Not Magic

[pauk]

If he wanted to. two more assist and he averages 7, were talking about Lebron here Not Magic

Only if he took down his FGA/PPG dramatically... he cant do that routinely while still dropping ~30 PPG for the entire season... for Lebron ~7 apg is a minimum no matter how many offensive possessions are "wasted" on scoring instead, he doesnt even try hard there... he could easily average 10 apg if he wanted to (or lead the league in PPG)... he just does whatever it takes for his team to win...

[G-Funk]

...im sure he would got even more assists during that span if he didnt average 31.7 ppg (and higher average than 8.6 for the entire season, highest by any non-PG in NBA history)....
But hes a stat patter, would rather let Wade & Bosh average 20 And 17 than to score less

[Money 23]

Not yet, but I love Kobe stans praising how he's playing (as their winning) when just prior to that they said he was playing perfectly and didn't need to change his approach (selfish, losing, etc)

He needed to play like this all season given the components on the roster, the types of players and weapons he had at his disposal. If he played like this the whole season, the objective Kobe fans like myself, would be rewarded with actual MVP caliber play and a winning ball club.

He's not as great a facilitator as James, but Kobe's best seasons from a winning and team perspective, he wasn't trying to gun for a scoring title. 2001, and 2008 being the ideal way I think he should've played his entire career.

[G-Funk]

Only if he took down his FGA/PPG dramatically... he cant do that routinely while still dropping ~30 PPG...
Is he not averaging 29/5/5? Has he not averaged 30 and 6 in the triangle?

[Ikill]

As a Bulls fan. I should never ever be propping up LBJ like this, but the Kobe slurping has gotten to all time levels.

I give it up to you Heat fans. You guys have been surprisingly cordial lately.

I haven't seen a LBJ thread in weeks.
Its not even bad considering the amount of hate he was getting before even when he was being really efficient. The Lebron dick riding has been way over the top this year people acting like he's a god with no flaws you can't say anything negative about him. Its a joke

[CavaliersFTW]

Ok, here's a few small windows from the '09-'10 season alone (where Lebron averaged 8.6 APG, a # Kobe couldn't reach in his dreams):

(11/28/09-12/6/10): 12, 10, 11, 10
Average of 10.75 APG

(1/27/10-2/2/10): 11, 13, 11, 15
Average of 12.5 APG

(2/9/10-2/13/10): 11, 13, 15
Average of 13 APG (*Scored 32 2x, 43/13Rbs/15 Asts trip
double during stretch)

So the answer to the ridiculous question in the OP is a resounding NO. All people with basic sense already knew that though.

/Thread.

Kobe the past three games is averaging 13 assists a game, so this 3 game stretch peak at the moment is actually equal to Lebron's highest peak that season - this makes the comparison all the more worthy does it not? Kobe's 3 game stretch peak when he wants to be the facilitator is equal to Lebron during Lebron's best passing season? As a fan who "stans" neither one of these guys the comparison seems a lot more worthy to me than some of you guys are acting, some of you guys are acting like it's sacreligious to point this out. 39 assists in 3 games is damn impressive, Lebron in his best passing season only did it once. And you guys are straight up trying to belittle me for bringing it up as a discussion - just sayin

[longtime lurker]

If Kobe Bryant wanted to he could lead the league in assists, but that's not his job here.

[SCdac]

If Kobe Bryant wanted to he could lead the league in assists, but that's not his job here.

Playing with Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Pau Gasol.... his assists should be through the roof... It would be a joke if they're not... Most stacked team in the league, certainly the most expensive.

[Pacers4ever]

No, comparing MJ to Magic is not a valid comparison it's a strawman argument to make my discussion topic look bad but it's a horrible analogy because MJ even in his stretch wasn't even reaching the same assist counts as Magic where as Kobe the past three games is averaging almost double the assists per game as Lebron - he's averaging THIRTEEN assists a game. Small window obviously, but it's the window I'm asking people to talk about - and people are getting offended. Maybe the window is too small for a valid discussion, but jesus people need to stop acting like it's offensive to bring such topics up.
How is that even debatable? No shit 3 games is to small of a window with someone of a sane mind to think kobe is on lebron's level of facilitating

[LikeABosh]

Lebron does it while scoring 26+ per game and rebounding.

[STATUTORY]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/526296_379611362110305_980374032_n.jpg
it's not how u start. it's how u finish

compare Lebron's stats from age 30-34 to Kobe's from 30-34 and it will be telling.

[longtime lurker]

Playing with Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Pau Gasol.... his assists should be through the roof... It would be a joke if they're not... Most stacked team in the league, certainly the most expensive.

You obviously haven't seen the Lakers play this year have you

[G-Funk]

Ok, here's a few small windows from the '09-'10 season alone (where Lebron averaged 8.6 APG, a # Kobe couldn't reach in his dreams):

(11/28/09-12/6/10): 12, 10, 11, 10
Average of 10.75 APG

(1/27/10-2/2/10): 11, 13, 11, 15
Average of 12.5 APG

(2/9/10-2/13/10): 11, 13, 15
Average of 13 APG (*Scored 32 2x, 43/13Rbs/15 Asts trip
double during stretch)

So the answer to the ridiculous question in the OP is a resounding NO. All people with basic sense already knew that though.

/Thread.
while turning his playmates into spot up role players? Lebron is notorious for brining players stats down.

[Money 23]

If Kobe Bryant wanted to he could lead the league in assists, but that's not his job here.
If LeBron wanted to he could lead the league in scoring, but that's not his job here.

Afterall, he's actually proven that ... he has just 1 less scoring title than Kobe, and has 2x 30 ppg to Kobe's 3x 30 ppg seasons.

He also won his scoring title in a more balanced officiated year (2008) compared to the league adjustment years of 2006 and 2007.

Where as Kobe's never even finished top five in assists per game. But sure, we'll take your word for it.

[STATUTORY]

while turning his playmates into spot up role players? Lebron is notorious for brining players stats down.
and ruining careers

see Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Shaq, among others

[Money 23]

and ruining careers

see Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Shaq, among others
Mo Williams was never a better player than he was playing with LeBron. He got better, and got undeserved recognition playing along side him, then got exposed come playoff time for his own personal short comings.

Larry Hughes was already on the tail end of his career, and then had personal issues that spiraled his career into mess and then extinction.

Shaq was already a shell of what he used to be by 2006, let alone 2010. Don't even try to make the argument that Shaq should've been better with LeBron and that it was Bron who ruined his career.

The guy blew his achilles the very next year simply by running up the court. Shaq should've retired in 2007 or after his nice little turn around rub in Phoenix in 2008 due to an excellent medical staff.

He was done by the time he got to the Cavs in the 2009 - 2010 season, you're being a troll.

[LikeABosh]

and ruining careers

see Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Shaq, among others
Wow you are dumb.

[DonDadda59]

Kobe the past three games is averaging 13 assists a game, so this 3 game stretch peak at the moment is actually equal to Lebron's highest peak that season - this makes the comparison all the more worthy does it not?

Absolutely not :oldlol:

Lebron did it for a whole season, averaging nearly 9 APG. I just posted the stretches were he put up double digit assists, and he still managed to put up big scoring numbers in most instances.


Kobe's 3 game stretch peak when he wants to be the facilitator is equal to Lebron during Lebron's best passing season? As a fan who "stans" neither one of these guys the comparison seems a lot more worthy to me than some of you guys are acting, some of you guys are acting like it's sacreligious to point this out. 39 assists in 3 games is damn impressive, Lebron in his best passing season only did it once. And you guys are straight up trying to belittle me for bringing it up as a discussion - just sayin

How about we wait to see if Kobe can sustain this for 2 weeks, let alone a season or entire career, then we'll have the conversation about how he measures up to an ATG facilitator.

In the meantime, let's discuss if Troy Hudson is a better scorer than Isaiah Thomas. After all he had 92 points (31 PPG) in 3 games in the playoffs one season.

[G-Funk]

Lebron does it while scoring 26+ per game and rebounding.
lol @ Rebound

How many rebounds does Lebron get off playing pf and from the line? in case u did not know Kobe is a guard

[gengiskhan]

It's worth discussing

14 pts / 11 assists stuff is LBJs really off night.

Even 21 pts / 14 assists. is LBJs off night.

Come talke to me when Kobe hits 25 pts / 15 assists / 13 rebounds.

LBJ is SUPERIOR to any Kobe version. Peak Prime or today's current washed up trash.

[LikeABosh]

lol @ Rebound

How many rebounds does Lebron get off playing pf and from the line? in case u did not know Kobe is a guard
Just saying that Lebron gets assists while also doing everything else. Kobe has had alot of assists the past 3 games but scoring has plummeted. This new "passing kobe" will be done in a week or two anyway

[DonDadda59]

while turning his playmates into spot up role players? Lebron is notorious for brining players stats down.

Yeah, getting assists with Andy Varejao and Boobie Gibson as teammates is a bit more challenging than doing it with Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Pau Gasol, etc :oldlol:

I can't believe people actually take this shit seriously. :biggums:

[SwayDizzle]

Let's put it this way. If Kobe put it on himself to be a facilitator throughout his career, he would be better at it than Bronze.

[CavaliersFTW]

14 pts / 11 assists stuff is LBJs really off night.

Even 21 pts / 14 assists. is LBJs off night.

Come talke to me when Kobe hits 25 pts / 15 assists / 13 rebounds.

LBJ is SUPERIOR to any Kobe version. Peak Prime or today's current washed up trash.
The question of the topic is, when Kobe is in facilitate mode is he a better facilitator than Lebron (note... a specific task). The question isn't whether he is a better / more well rounded / complete player while doing it. It's simply whether or not he is a better facilitator when he puts his mind to it. 13 assists per game even in a 3 game stretch has only once been matched by Lebron during Lebron's best passing season - you guys act like he puts up assist numbers for 3 game stretches like that all the time - he doesn't.

[longtime lurker]

If LeBron wanted to he could lead the league in scoring, but that's not his job here.

Afterall, he's actually proven that ... he has just 1 less scoring title than Kobe, and has 2x 30 ppg to Kobe's 3x 30 ppg seasons.

He also won his scoring title in a more balanced officiated year (2008) compared to the league adjustment years of 2006 and 2007.

Where as Kobe's never even finished top five in assists per game. But sure, we'll take your word for it.

Haha calm down sport I was just using the same play of words Lebron used for Kobe. Jesus people can't even joke around without someone getting up in arms and posting a wall of text.

[G-Funk]

Yeah, getting assists with Andy Varejao and Boobie Gibson as teammates is a bit more challenging than doing it with Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Pau Gasol, etc :oldlol:

I can't believe people actually take this shit seriously. :biggums:
Lmao
Did u just begin watching basketball 3 games ago or wut? Nash has been the pg, Kobe has been playing off the ball all season. NOW that he plays that roll hes getting 13 assist per game

[ThatsGame]

The difference is Kobe is specifically focusing on Assists, LeBron doesn't. LeBron has an all around game, scoring, rebounding, and assists. If LeBron were to give up scoring and rebounds, he could easily get the same or more assists then Kobe.

It's really easy to pass the ball. Don't act like Kobe is some god for being able to.

[Money 23]

Haha calm down sport I was just using the same play of words Lebron used for Kobe. Jesus people can't even joke around without someone getting up in arms and posting a wall of text.
I was honestly just kidding back. I don't get Kobe being self and fan proclaimed "born and bred scorer" with only 2x scoring titles.

Meanwhile LeBron, who preaches his game doesn't allow for self indulgent scoring binges, has 2x seasons of 30+ ppg and one less scoring title than the scoring obsessed Kobe.

Doesn't that lend itself to Bron being an inherently better scorer and player? He doesn't focus on scoring, yet delivers the same output as Kobe, while doing more on the floor elsewhere?

[longtime lurker]

blah blah blah Kobe didn't sign my autograph :cry:

:confusedshrug:

[eliteballer]

The difference is Kobe is specifically focusing on Assists, LeBron doesn't. LeBron has an all around game, scoring, rebounding, and assists. If LeBron were to give up scoring and rebounds, he could easily get the same or more assists then Kobe.

It's really easy to pass the ball. Don't act like Kobe is some god for being able to.


:roll: Wow you're an idiot, and LeBron's rebounding numbers are padded with defensive boards. Has no bearing on assists. If anything it should help him since he snatches defensive gimme boards from teamates and gets the ball in his hands right away.

Also, LeBron doesn't care about stats? Since WHEN. The same guy who tried to outdo Kobe's 61 in the garden and got a rebound taken away trying to pad.

[LikeABosh]

The question of the topic is, when Kobe is in facilitate mode is he a better facilitator than Lebron (note... a specific task). The question isn't whether he is a better / more well rounded / complete player while doing it. It's simply whether or not he is a better facilitator when he puts his mind to it. 13 assists per game even in a 3 game stretch has only once been matched by Lebron during Lebron's best passing season - you guys act like he puts up assist numbers for 3 game stretches like that all the time - he doesn't.
If Kobe is such a great facilitator and he's so smart why doesn't he do it more if he sees it helps his team? Lebron has nearly double the amount of 10+ assists games.

[longtime lurker]

I was honestly just kidding back. I don't get Kobe being self and fan proclaimed "born and bred scorer" with only 2x scoring titles.

Meanwhile LeBron, who preaches his game doesn't allow for self indulgent scoring binges, has 2x seasons of 30+ ppg and one less scoring title than the scoring obsessed Kobe.

Doesn't that lend itself to Bron being an inherently better scorer and player? He doesn't focus on scoring, yet delivers the same output as Kobe, while doing more on the floor elsewhere?

Well if Kobe hadn't played with Shaq in his prime years he would have had more scoring titles. Just like Lebron isn't winning any scoring titles playing with Bosh and Wade. And no way is Lebron an inherently better scorer than Kobe just because of scoring titles. Considering that he's never had to share the ball with a major offensive threat (and don't give me the tired he had to do everything for the Cavs excuse). When it comes down to it ask any knowledgeable NBA person (I'm not talking about posters on a message board) and they'll tell you Kobe is top 5 greatest scorers of all time and Lebron is top 5 most versatile players of all time. Both great at what they do best.

[TheBigVeto]

http://oi53.tinypic.com/34rtwyh.jpg


http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/Rodman2124/kobeclutch.gif

[Bandito]

Pretty sure if LBJ was playing with prime Shaq, they'd both have 7-8 rings by now. Not to mention LBJ's scoring would've taken a hit, but his assists would be at astronomical levels, even with the triangle.

I'm sure Phil would've modified the triangle to bring out the best in both Shaq and LBJ.
The problem with LBJ is that even though he is a willing passer he needs the ball to do things and the triangle is not made for players like him. BUT if he started with the Lakers he wouldn't be the player he is today because Phil would've use him differently. Honestly he probably wouldve won more as a SECOND option to Shaq.

[Graviton]

Of course, Godbe already got 2 games with 14 assists, 3 games in a row with 10 assists. Lebron's season high is 12 and he hasn't even gotten back to back games with 10 assists.

All that when Miami has even better shooters, the problem for LeCifer James is he forces assists, kicking it out to covered shooters or his bigs in traffic. Hence why he is averaging measly 7APR. Godbe since implementing the Kobesystem is averaging 13APG and actually SETTING UP his teammates perfectly, instead of statpadin for assists for his precious triple doubles like LeCifer.

Godbe has mastered both the mental and physical aspects of basketball, his mindset can not be comprehended by the ignorant masses following the false prophet LeCifer. Kobe showcases his greatness through the success of his teammates, he leads by trusting, he wins with confidense and empowers his teammates with the divine energies of the Kobesystem. Those who accept his gifts are bound to receive max contracts, numerous awards and championships.

[RRR3]

For Statutory and G-Funk






*Carlos Boozer played one year with LeBron. It was his sophomore season and LeBron's rookie season. Boozer's stats went up across the board from his rookie season (10/8/1) to his lone season with LBJ (16/11/2). He went on to enjoy success with Deron Williams (an elite PG) in Utah, but has had much less success in Chicago.

*Drew Gooden. His very first year with LBJ he averaged CAREER HIGHS in points, rebounds, steals and blocks. He has never surpassed those numbers to this day. Furthermore, Drew Gooden shot 48.3% from the field as LeBron's teammate. Without LeBron, he has shot just 45.4% from the field.

*Larry Hughes' numbers are taken completely out of context. Hughes had a much larger role in his tenure with Washington than he did in Cleveland, as LeBron, not Hughes, was the man obviously. Outside of his career year in 2004-05, Hughes had no seasons that differed much from his production while with LeBron James. In fact, his numbers decreased in many areas after leaving Cleveland.

*In Delonte West's case, West played almost two and a half seasons with LeBron James one as a bench player. In 2009, West posted the 3rd highest scoring season of his career to date with LeBron, and notched a career high in 3PT percentage. In 2008, West spent the season with the Sonics and was traded to the Cavs later in the year, where he played 26 games. With LBJ, West's FG% went from a measly 38.8% on the Sonics to a decent 44.0%. His scoring also increased from 6.8 PPG to 10.3 PPG.

*In the case of Varejao, his numbers, apart from rebounding in 2012, have not changed much without LeBron, although his field goal percentage dipped a bit from his last two years with LBJ. On a per minute basis, his stats are virtually the same, however, and it should be noted that he has played on a very poor team the past few years and has thus had a larger role. He has also been plagued by injuries the past few years, so his numbers are not those of a full season, and combined they amount to just 56 total games. It should also be noted that Varejao did not play 20+ minutes until his 3rd year in Cleveland, and his statistics are affected by this.

*Jamison's numbers are also taken out of context. In 2009-10, Jamison went from being the number one or two option (depending on Gilbert Arenas's health) on the Wizards to the 3rd option on the Cavaliers. His numbers for the Wizards were 21 and 9 in 39 minutes a game. For the Cavs, he put up 16 and 8, but in just 32 minutes a game. Jamison's numbers could have been higher on the Cavs if he hadn't inexplicably gone from a 70% FT shooter to a 50% shooter while with LBJ that year. Jamison's FG% actually went from 45% with the Wizards to 49% with LeBron. The past two seasons without LeBron, Jamison's FG% has plummetted to 43% and 40%, respectively. Like Varejao, he plays on a poor team and has a much larger role and more opportunities to throw up shots. LeBron did not negatively impact Jamison's numbers, unless you want to blame him for Jamison losing his FT shooting ability. :rolleyes:

*As for Shaq, O'Neal played just 23 minuets a game for the Cavaliers, but if one looks at his numbers on a per minute basis, he averaged the EXACT same amount of shot attempts per 36 minutes as he did the previous season in Cleveland. Furthermore, per 36 minutes, Shaq's numbers with LeBron were 19/10/2, numbers quite comparable to his per 36 minute averages of 2007-08 and 2008-09.

*As for Dwyane Wade, it is insane to think that both LEBRON AND WADE'S numbers would not be affected by playing with each other, as they are similar players whose styles overlap in many ways. Wade was hurt much of this past season and saw his minutes decrease, but he still averaged 24 PPG per 36 this past season. The two highest FG% seasons of Wade's career are both when he played with LeBron James.

*As for Chris Bosh? LeBron does not negatively impact him, the reason Bosh's numbers are down is because he is the 3rd option on Miami, while he was the first in Toronto. NEVERTHELESS, in the games Wade was absent this year, Bosh (as LeBron's second option) averaged nearly 25 PPG! LeBron is quite capable of playing well with Bosh. As for Chalmers, he had the best season of his career to date with LeBron, has been even better in the playoffs, and while Wade was out and LeBron was still there, Chalmers averaged nearly 14 PPG! LeBron alone, in a small sample size, actually IMPROVED the numbers of Bosh and Chalmers.

*Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Big Z, who was an All-Star with and without LeBron, was a good player regardless, I admit. However, of Big Z's 5 best scoring seasons, 3 came with LeBron James. 6 of Big Z's 8 best rebounding totals per minute came with LeBron as his teammate.


Lastly, as to Mike Miller-his role is greatly reduced on the Heat (as anyone who has watched them would know and would understand), and he has been injury prone, as he has most of his career. He is still a solid player, however, although his numbers may not regard it. As for Battier, if anyone has watched the Heat a lot this year (and I have watched literally at least 90-95% of Heat games this season) they would be insane to Blame LeBron for the COUNTLESS open threes Battier has missed after LeBron created a good shot for him.

*Mario Chalmers had the best season of his career with LBJ, as did Mo Williams. An old Ray Allen has done fairly well too.

[DatAsh]

:roll:

Do you not think he could?

[ThaRegul8r]

lol really? 3 games in only...

This. I don't know how three games is enough of a sample size to suddenly say someone's better than someone else in something they've been doing for a significantly longer period of time.

But of course, people need something to talk about.

[The Iron Fist]

For Statutory and G-Funk
and none of that stopped the Cavs from two straight 60 win seasons and many people claiming they were going to win it all.


Then, the playoffs happened.

[G-Funk]

For Statutory and G-Funk

no time for apologist

[RRR3]

no time for facts that don't fit my agenda
:cheers:

[knicksman]

lebron has never been as good as kobe. Coz I consider only those who have the same playing style as jordan as the best. And lebron clearly isnt in the league of those 2. The 11 rings just speaks for itself. Lebron is more like oscar robertson. If theres one player right now that could be better than those 2, its durant.

[pauk]

lebron has never been as good as kobe. Coz I consider only those who have the same playing style as jordan as the best. And lebron clearly isnt in the league of those 2. The 11 rings just speaks for itself. Lebron is more like oscar robertson. If theres one player right now that could be better than those 2, its durant.

lol

[masonx20]

So who's Lebron playing with now to make make him look so good? Hmmm...lets see we got wade, bosh, battier, ray, Lewis...but oh no these are just scrubs from the dleague.



Who was that big, 7'2 monster of a man that was playing along side Kobe, when he was going off?

Who were that pathetic bunch of scrubs that were playing along side LBJ, when he faced the Spurs?

[kNicKz]

Kobe had stacked teams with shaq to win rings and Lebron had stacked teams with wade/bosh to win a ring....they both won with good teams and both had different roles on their teams. Stupid comparison

[RoseCity07]

5 games of being a playmaker vs an entire career. Yeah, good comparison.

[tpols]

Coz I consider only those who have the same playing style as jordan as the best.
:wtf: :facepalm Damn it..

Yes kobe when he puts his mind to it is better than lebron at passing the basketball. Kobe has actual passing skills in a disciplined basketball system where he is taught to move the ball around in ways that go according to direct plays. Kobe can perfectly set his big men up in the post with his smooth entry passes, swing it hockey assist style in response to defensive shifts, hit the cutter, find the open shooter, alley oop passing, and any type of skill/trick passing(not that Lebron isn't good at this too).

Lebron is freestyle drive and dish..

I'll take kobe if they both choose to become facilitators. Pretty easy decision..

[red1]

bronzy>passbe

[AlonzoGOAT]

:wtf: :facepalm Damn it..

Yes kobe when he puts his mind to it is better than lebron at passing the basketball. Kobe has actual passing skills in a disciplined basketball system where he is taught to move the ball around in ways that go according to direct plays. Kobe can perfectly set his big men up in the post with his smooth entry passes, swing it hockey assist style in response to defensive shifts, hit the cutter, find the open shooter, alley oop passing, and any type of skill/trick passing(not that Lebron isn't good at this too).

Lebron is freestyle drive and dish..

I'll take kobe if they both choose to become facilitators. Pretty easy decision..
Basically everything lebron can do but worse and less consistent.

[The Choken One]

If Kobe keeps it up it's damn close, but Kobe's alpha dog personality will get the best of him at times. Straight up, though. Kobe is probably the better facilitator.

[andgar923]

Let me put some shit in context.

Kobe goes into 'pass mode' in which he specifically goes out of his way to pass.
Bron just plays 'naturally', which means he just plays. No intention on having 13 assist, he just gets them without really trying hard. If he decided to get into 'pass mode' then he'd average 12 in a season. But his game is to do bit of everything naturally, not forced.

[red1]

Let me put some shit in context.

Kobe goes into 'pass mode' in which he specifically goes out of his way to pass.
Bron just plays 'naturally', which means he just plays. No intention on having 13 assist, he just gets them without really trying hard. If he decided to get into 'pass mode' then he'd average 12 in a season. But his game is to do bit of everything naturally, not forced.
so basically bronzy>passbe

[DatAsh]

:wtf: :facepalm Damn it..

Yes kobe when he puts his mind to it is better than lebron at passing the basketball. Kobe has actual passing skills in a disciplined basketball system where he is taught to move the ball around in ways that go according to direct plays. Kobe can perfectly set his big men up in the post with his smooth entry passes, swing it hockey assist style in response to defensive shifts, hit the cutter, find the open shooter, alley oop passing, and any type of skill/trick passing(not that Lebron isn't good at this too).

Lebron is freestyle drive and dish..

I'll take kobe if they both choose to become facilitators. Pretty easy decision..

Kobe's a great passer, but I don't even see him as being as good as Jordan/Drexler/Wade, much less Lebron.

Apologies if that was sarcasm.

[Pacers4ever]

Let me put some shit in context.

Kobe goes into 'pass mode' in which he specifically goes out of his way to pass.
Bron just plays 'naturally', which means he just plays. No intention on having 13 assist, he just gets them without really trying hard. If he decided to get into 'pass mode' then he'd average 12 in a season. But his game is to do bit of everything naturally, not forced.
Exactly what I was going to say. +1

[Whoah10115]

Honestly, OP, you should be ashamed yourself.

[pauk]

CavaliersFTW... i understand a fans disdain towards a certain players departure from your favorite team, but letting that restrain your logical recognition for that players game aswell is just ignorant...

[knicksman]

Let me put some shit in context.

Kobe goes into 'pass mode' in which he specifically goes out of his way to pass.
Bron just plays 'naturally', which means he just plays. No intention on having 13 assist, he just gets them without really trying hard. If he decided to get into 'pass mode' then he'd average 12 in a season. But his game is to do bit of everything naturally, not forced.

LMAO at this.. I think youre describing Lebron here. The guy who constantly thinks of his FG% or the one who would facilitate once his assists numbers are not yet on the average. Jordan or kobe never cared about stats thats why they won a combined 11 rings while oscar/lebron has only 2. LOL Once jordan played off the ball, he started winning. This is a team game and players like lebron are cancerous to a team just like the score first pgs like AI/Rose/Arenas/oscar. Thats why despite the stats, lebron never produced off rtgs as good as jordan/magic while durant in his 6th yr already reached prime jordan.

[Pacers4ever]

LMAO at this.. I think youre describing Lebron here. The guy who constantly thinks of his FG% or the one who would facilitate once his assists numbers are not yet on the average. Jordan or kobe never cared about stats thats why they won a combined 11 rings while oscar/lebron has only 2. LOL Once jordan played off the ball, he started winning. This is a team game and players like lebron are cancerous to a team just like the score first pgs like AI/Rose/Arenas/oscar. Thats why despite the stats, lebron never produced off rtgs as good as jordan/magic while durant in his 6th yr already reached prime jordan.
http://purplejesus.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/jaguars-fan-gif.gif

:facepalm I can't tell if knicks fans are butt hurt or legitimately retarded

[tazb]

When he does it while averaging 25ppg+ and shooting over 50% through a full season then we can talk.

/thread.

[9erempiree]

We don't know if Lebron can play the Kobe System.

[plowking]

We don't know if Lebron can play the Kobe System.

I don't think he wants to. He likes winning games.

[staywhite]

I like this Kobe a lot better! :bowdown: Get the team going and then score when you need to.

Don't compare LBJ and Kobe in passing :no:

Lebron is the better passer

[SCdac]

Kobe looked like he was forcing it tonight. Like if he's not scoring, he has to be the one to dish the assist. Seems contrived, which is not at all surprising. Next thing you know Kobe is going to be stealing Howard's role

[alleykat]

Thread ended tonite....and shouldn't have been made in first place
Kobe can't play lebron's game better than lebron....

:rockon: This dude is trolling u guys for hits on threads

[bdreason]

LeBron James makes the right play, which results in assists.

Kobe tries to get assists.





Big difference.

[alleykat]

LeBron James makes the right play, which results in assists.

Kobe tries to get assists.





Big difference.

/thread

[clayton]

6 turnovers.
/thread.

[ukballer]

LMAO at this.. I think youre describing Lebron here. The guy who constantly thinks of his FG% or the one who would facilitate once his assists numbers are not yet on the average. Jordan or kobe never cared about stats thats why they won a combined 11 rings while oscar/lebron has only 2. LOL Once jordan played off the ball, he started winning. This is a team game and players like lebron are cancerous to a team just like the score first pgs like AI/Rose/Arenas/oscar. Thats why despite the stats, lebron never produced off rtgs as good as jordan/magic while durant in his 6th yr already reached prime jordan.

https://7chan.org/7ch/src/13576777529.gif

[tmacattack33]

Didn't read anything but the title of this thread, but lol, I'm hoping the op wasn't serious. The last four games hav proven that Kobe can only facilitate when he actively turns down scoring opportunities for himself... Lebron can play regularly and score 25 plus points and dish out 10 assists at the same time because he has the passing vision to do facilitate without changing his game to do so.

[tmacattack33]

Oh whoops. Sorry guys. Like I said I didn't read any of this thread, so I didn't see that this thread was already over. Especially after last nights debacle where Kobe went 7-17, had 9 assists but 6 turnovers, and was giving up dunks to pass to gasol for a dunk to increase his assists. And they lost to the worst team on the western conference. Lol.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Nope, not at all. Kobe passes the ball like he is forced to, Lebron passes the ball like its natural. You cant force yourself to do things you cant or dont want to do, it may last for a short while but definitely not a long-term solution.

[plowking]

Some of the most idiotic things are posted on here.
Just because Lebron cares about certain stats, like shooting a certain percentage from the floor, it means he won't win? Its an incentive, not a must.

And you're downright stupid if you think all players don't care about their stats.

[MJ23forever]

Nope, not at all. Kobe passes the ball like he is forced to, Lebron passes the ball like its natural.


The big difference between Lebron and Kobe is that Lebron looks for an assist, Kobe looks to make the right pass.

James is a willing passer but he is a willing passer to get the stats. Just look at how many times Bron will dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, until a shooter is open, that is called looking for the assist, not making the right pass.

Kobe doesn't ball pound the whole shot clock, he has always played within the offense as the Lakers facilitator, and he got more assists finding cutters than finding shooters.

Lebron almost always passes the ball if he knows it will lead to an assist. I rarely ever see him make the "hockey assist".

As great as Bron's passing ability is said to be and how unselfish he is said to be based on his assist numbers, he tends to only pass if he will get that assist. He pretty much refuses to pass just for the sake of ball movement and moving the defense, which is not a good thing at all when teams are packing in the lane.

I have always considered Lebron's "assists" ala Stephon Marbury-esque or Steve Francis-esque. I mean at their peaks they were what 9 assists type of guys? But you would never say that those 9 assists are similar to a Kidd or a Nash having 9 assists.

Facilitators look to create plays out of nothing. James, not so much. He's either going to pummel into the lane or throw it out for a cop-out assist.

Face it, Lebron is a player that really does care about his stats. He works for those assist totals and he rarely makes a pass that wouldn't directly lead to a bucket. You see it all the time. He'll sit on the post, or dribble at the top of the key just waiting for someone to get open and he'll hit them with a pass. He has no anticipation for the hockey assist or for how one of his first passes could lead to another pass that could lead to a bucket.

[SCdac]

The big difference between Lebron and Kobe is that Lebron looks for an assist, Kobe looks to make the right pass.

That's literally the opposite of what I saw last night :oldlol:

Kobe held the ball till there was an assist opportunity he liked, to the detriment of the pace and the offense.

[Kiddlovesnets]

That's literally the opposite of what I saw last night :oldlol:

Kobe held the ball till there was an assist opportunity he liked, to the detriment of the pace and the offense.
Indeed. Kobe was the one who looks for assists stats, lebron on the other hands looks to create for his teammates wide open shots

[OldSchoolBBall]

That's literally the opposite of what I saw last night :oldlol:

Kobe held the ball till there was an assist opportunity he liked, to the detriment of the pace and the offense.

Seriously. It's like these Kobe fans have been watching different games the past week. :oldlol: Kobe just monopilizes the ball to the detriment of everything else in a vain (as in "vanity," not "futile") attempt to rack up assists.

[Pointguard]

Oscar Robinson averages a triple double his first five years in the league and 30ppg along with it, his first 5 years or his first 400 games!!! in the league and doesn't make anybodies top 10 GOAT list. BUT Kobe gets 3 games at 13 assist per, after averaging 5 assist per for 17 years or 1200 games, and he's better than Lebron - today's Big O.

CavsFan having a bad posting day. Sometimes your shot is off.

[LebronairJAMES]

The big difference between Lebron and Kobe is that Lebron looks for an assist, Kobe looks to make the right pass.

James is a willing passer but he is a willing passer to get the stats. Just look at how many times Bron will dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, until a shooter is open, that is called looking for the assist, not making the right pass.

Kobe doesn't ball pound the whole shot clock, he has always played within the offense as the Lakers facilitator, and he got more assists finding cutters than finding shooters.

Lebron almost always passes the ball if he knows it will lead to an assist. I rarely ever see him make the "hockey assist".

As great as Bron's passing ability is said to be and how unselfish he is said to be based on his assist numbers, he tends to only pass if he will get that assist. He pretty much refuses to pass just for the sake of ball movement and moving the defense, which is not a good thing at all when teams are packing in the lane.

I have always considered Lebron's "assists" ala Stephon Marbury-esque or Steve Francis-esque. I mean at their peaks they were what 9 assists type of guys? But you would never say that those 9 assists are similar to a Kidd or a Nash having 9 assists.

Facilitators look to create plays out of nothing. James, not so much. He's either going to pummel into the lane or throw it out for a cop-out assist.

Face it, Lebron is a player that really does care about his stats. He works for those assist totals and he rarely makes a pass that wouldn't directly lead to a bucket. You see it all the time. He'll sit on the post, or dribble at the top of the key just waiting for someone to get open and he'll hit them with a pass. He has no anticipation for the hockey assist or for how one of his first passes could lead to another pass that could lead to a bucket.

You have never played basketball before, and you can go eat shit you ***** faggart

[Glide2keva]

As a Bulls fan. I should never ever be propping up LBJ like this, but the Kobe slurping has gotten to all time levels.

I give it up to you Heat fans. You guys have been surprisingly cordial lately.

I haven't seen a LBJ thread in weeks.
I've noticed that too. They haven't been half as annoying as they usually are.

[oh the horror]

What's funny is the fact that some of you don't realize that the opinions you're getting aren't all from "Kobe Stans". You keep rationalizing things by lumping everyone that sees it from another angle by lumping everyone else in that category.


Kobe haters are the yin the Kobe Stan's yang. Both are stupid as shit to talk to.

[CavaliersFTW]

Oscar Robinson averages a triple double his first five years in the league and 30ppg along with it, his first 5 years or his first 400 games!!! in the league and doesn't make anybodies top 10 GOAT list. BUT Kobe gets 3 games at 13 assist per, after averaging 5 assist per for 17 years or 1200 games, and he's better than Lebron - today's Big O.

CavsFan having a bad posting day. Sometimes your shot is off.

:kobe: - everybody here is getting butthurt over a question I asked :oldlol: - I neither gave nor drew any conclusions but "my shot is off" and I'm "having a bad posting day", okay

[MJ23forever]

Whenever Lebron gets the ball, he will control it for 60-70% of the shot clock, this is not sometimes, this is nearly every possession. Dude is so damn concerned about his stats, he will not pass the ball to a player who will not immediately shoot it because he will miss out on his assist. Look back at the Cavs times, their whole offense was based on Lebron iso's at the top of the key, due to the fact that everybody on the team could hit jumpers, Bron would easily get assists by attacking the main defender and dishing it to wherever the help came from. Watching the Heat, whenever Bron iso's, he NEVER looks for Wade. If Wade is spotting up, I had to look back at the Cavs to prove this to myself, if you are not a shooter and you are on the perimeter, even if its the smart and most effective pass to make, Lebron will not look for you. James plays the game to get his numbers, point blank period.

Every time I have seen spo trying to run a play involving the whole team, as soon as Lebron touches the ball, all of the ball movement completely stops. Crazy because when the isolation is for Wade, Dwayne attacks the defense quickly, and he makes the right pass about 90% of the time, Wade is not looking to stat pad, so when he is the primary focus the offense moves much quicker. Watch it for yourself, why the hell is it that every time Lebron touches the ball, he has to clear out the whole team? I am telling you, watch Miami swing Lebron the ball and watch how everything stops until Bron makes a pass to get his assist, it's ridiculous. If Lebron is trapped, he is still looking for the shooter instead of looking for a open player to receive the ball, notice the turnovers in these situations.

I was just thinking about these faults in his game and at first I was thinking that he was just selfish and a stat-padder, but no, his offensive game is very limited. So many people prop him up cause of his versatility, but I'm starting to disbelieve that more and more. Lebron can do a lot of things, but his dominance comes from his limitations. Here is a fact, Bron cannot attack the help defender/shader/cheating defender, so after beating the on ball defender, he will pass it 97% of the time, If he can't go straight up and finish after beating the on ball defender, he will pass it, and if you are not a shooter you will not touch the ball, even if it's the best pass to make. Lebron cannot pass the ball on fast breaks, he moves too fast to even attempt a pass and he doesn't with his head up on fast breaks, his intention on fast breaks is to score, and to score only. If a coach told Lebron that he cant dominate the ball, he wold be a career 18-5-5 type of player, no doubt in my mind about it.

[LikeABosh]

Whenever Lebron gets the ball, he will control it for 60-70% of the shot clock, this is not sometimes, this is nearly every possession. Dude is so damn concerned about his stats, he will not pass the ball to a player who will not immediately shoot it because he will miss out on his assist. Look back at the Cavs times, their whole offense was based on Lebron iso's at the top of the key, due to the fact that everybody on the team could hit jumpers, Bron would easily get assists by attacking the main defender and dishing it to wherever the help came from. Watching the Heat, whenever Bron iso's, he NEVER looks for Wade. If Wade is spotting up, I had to look back at the Cavs to prove this to myself, if you are not a shooter and you are on the perimeter, even if its the smart and most effective pass to make, Lebron will not look for you. James plays the game to get his numbers, point blank period.

Every time I have seen spo trying to run a play involving the whole team, as soon as Lebron touches the ball, all of the ball movement completely stops. Crazy because when the isolation is for Wade, Dwayne attacks the defense quickly, and he makes the right pass about 90% of the time, Wade is not looking to stat pad, so when he is the primary focus the offense moves much quicker. Watch it for yourself, why the hell is it that every time Lebron touches the ball, he has to clear out the whole team? I am telling you, watch Miami swing Lebron the ball and watch how everything stops until Bron makes a pass to get his assist, it's ridiculous. If Lebron is trapped, he is still looking for the shooter instead of looking for a open player to receive the ball, notice the turnovers in these situations.

I was just thinking about these faults in his game and at first I was thinking that he was just selfish and a stat-padder, but no, his offensive game is very limited. So many people prop him up cause of his versatility, but I'm starting to disbelieve that more and more. Lebron can do a lot of things, but his dominance comes from his limitations. Here is a fact, Bron cannot attack the help defender/shader/cheating defender, so after beating the on ball defender, he will pass it 97% of the time, If he can't go straight up and finish after beating the on ball defender, he will pass it, and if you are not a shooter you will not touch the ball, even if it's the best pass to make. Lebron cannot pass the ball on fast breaks, he moves too fast to even attempt a pass and he doesn't with his head up on fast breaks, his intention on fast breaks is to score, and to score only. If a coach told Lebron that he cant dominate the ball, he wold be a career 18-5-5 type of player, no doubt in my mind about it.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--ekR6jG4Iwk/Tw4zvKN4RCI/AAAAAAAAAn0/IX-VBCUOUvs/s1600/didnt-read-lol-chicken-gif.gif

[ThickassGlasses]

The big difference between Lebron and Kobe is that Lebron looks for an assist, Kobe looks to make the right pass.

James is a willing passer but he is a willing passer to get the stats. Just look at how many times Bron will dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, until a shooter is open, that is called looking for the assist, not making the right pass.

Kobe doesn't ball pound the whole shot clock, he has always played within the offense as the Lakers facilitator, and he got more assists finding cutters than finding shooters.

Lebron almost always passes the ball if he knows it will lead to an assist. I rarely ever see him make the "hockey assist".

As great as Bron's passing ability is said to be and how unselfish he is said to be based on his assist numbers, he tends to only pass if he will get that assist. He pretty much refuses to pass just for the sake of ball movement and moving the defense, which is not a good thing at all when teams are packing in the lane.

I have always considered Lebron's "assists" ala Stephon Marbury-esque or Steve Francis-esque. I mean at their peaks they were what 9 assists type of guys? But you would never say that those 9 assists are similar to a Kidd or a Nash having 9 assists.

Facilitators look to create plays out of nothing. James, not so much. He's either going to pummel into the lane or throw it out for a cop-out assist.

Face it, Lebron is a player that really does care about his stats. He works for those assist totals and he rarely makes a pass that wouldn't directly lead to a bucket. You see it all the time. He'll sit on the post, or dribble at the top of the key just waiting for someone to get open and he'll hit them with a pass. He has no anticipation for the hockey assist or for how one of his first passes could lead to another pass that could lead to a bucket.

First off, these last few posts of your's have been horrible, but this part is the worst part of it all.


In his Cleveland days, I forget exactly what year as it was just a TNT little story, in which LeBron was more interested in his stats than winning, Mike Brown had a chalk board that listed every player on the roster and their "hockey assists". As I said, I don't remember the year but Mo Williams was definitely on the list and he half as many of these kind of passes as LeBron did and Mike Brown went on and on about how ball movement is underrated and LeBron is always making the right pass. Sure he has to say that last part, but I doubt he fabricated the whole chalk board.

[dyna]

Didn't read anything but the title of this thread, but lol, I'm hoping the op wasn't serious. The last four games hav proven that Kobe can only facilitate when he actively turns down scoring opportunities for himself... Lebron can play regularly and score 25 plus points and dish out 10 assists at the same time because he has the passing vision to do facilitate without changing his game to do so.

:applause:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

OP is usually a good poster so i'm pretty sure he's trolling.

[Kiddlovesnets]

OP is usually a good poster so i'm pretty sure he's trolling.

OP is revealing himself as a Lebron hater now?

[ZeN]

OP is revealing himself as a Lebron hater now?
He has been one.

[Pointguard]

:kobe: - everybody here is getting butthurt over a question I asked :oldlol: - I neither gave nor drew any conclusions but "my shot is off" and I'm "having a bad posting day", okay

LOL, I have off days. But you actually said this is "worth discussing." This greatly implies that you have given it some judgement, time and thought.

1200 games versus 3 games.
17 years vs 3 days.
Had 8 years with the best finisher in the game
Yet 5 assist per game a consistent
His role his who career has been finisher

vs.

A career of a guy being the obvious best point Forward ever.
A guy who gets 7 assist per game with five guys name Mo.
Could facilitate teams to the finals with mysterious players
Definitely top two SF passers ever
Is a better facilitator than than best SG facilatator ever who won a title in that role, who is on his team!

But you got it. This is you on your "on" day - mind just runnin circles around mofo's. You hitting shots from three point land and just feeling it, right. Feeling good and bright today CavFTW? While you are at it why don't you hit us up on some "relativity theories" or why the Bees are dying? Mind as well school us on it all while you are hot.

[CavaliersFTW]

LOL, I have off days. But you actually said this is "worth discussing." This greatly implies that you have given it some judgement, time and thought.
1200 games versus 3 games.
17 years vs 3 days.
Had 8 years with the best finisher in the game
Yet 5 assist per game a consistent
His role his who career has been finisher

vs.

A career of a guy being the obvious best point Forward ever.
A guy who gets 7 assist per game with five guys name Mo.
Could facilitate teams to the finals with mysterious players
Definitely top two SF passers ever
Is a better facilitator than than best SG facilatator ever who won a title in that role, who is on his team!

But you got it. This is you on your "on" day - mind just runnin circles around mofo's. You hitting shots from three point land and just feeling it, right. Feeling good and bright today CavFTW? While you are at it why don't you hit us up on some "relativity theories" or why the Bees are dying? Mind as well school us on it all while you are hot.
Or... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Trolling_drawing.jpg/300px-Trolling_drawing.jpg

[Pointguard]

The big difference between Lebron and Kobe is that Lebron looks for an assist, Kobe looks to make the right pass.

James is a willing passer but he is a willing passer to get the stats. Just look at how many times Bron will dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, until a shooter is open, that is called looking for the assist, not making the right pass.

Kobe doesn't ball pound the whole shot clock, he has always played within the offense as the Lakers facilitator, and he got more assists finding cutters than finding shooters.

Lebron almost always passes the ball if he knows it will lead to an assist. I rarely ever see him make the "hockey assist".

As great as Bron's passing ability is said to be and how unselfish he is said to be based on his assist numbers, he tends to only pass if he will get that assist. He pretty much refuses to pass just for the sake of ball movement and moving the defense, which is not a good thing at all when teams are packing in the lane.

I have always considered Lebron's "assists" ala Stephon Marbury-esque or Steve Francis-esque. I mean at their peaks they were what 9 assists type of guys? But you would never say that those 9 assists are similar to a Kidd or a Nash having 9 assists.

Facilitators look to create plays out of nothing. James, not so much. He's either going to pummel into the lane or throw it out for a cop-out assist.

Face it, Lebron is a player that really does care about his stats. He works for those assist totals and he rarely makes a pass that wouldn't directly lead to a bucket. You see it all the time. He'll sit on the post, or dribble at the top of the key just waiting for someone to get open and he'll hit them with a pass. He has no anticipation for the hockey assist or for how one of his first passes could lead to another pass that could lead to a bucket.

Very few gerat superstars could win or get a lot of assist with those Clevelend teams. If Lebron pummels into the lane why are his TO's lower than Kobe's? whom you say handles the ball a lot less. Why is his FG% always higher if he plays so chaotically? Why does he always win even when his teammates are bad.

The player that resembles Lebrons strengths in the whole league is Dwade. Their styles by nature clash. Yet he and Lebron run almost completely fluid and are the best duo ever in running the fast break. DH and Kobe should be totally complimentrary and they are totally out of sync - if one was a natural facilitator then there is no problem. I don't think Lebron and DH could be under 500. after 4 games played, plus having another all star on the team? Kobe is not a facilitator and never was. He's shot the ball 27 times per game and 16 times more than the next Laker over the course of a year. Facilitator is not his role and its not a knock against him at all being that he's a top ten great.

[Pointguard]

Or... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Trolling_drawing.jpg/300px-Trolling_drawing.jpg
Haha,
You're Baitman!!!

[The Iron Fist]

LeBron James makes the right play, which results in assists.

Kobe tries to get assists.





Big difference.Kobe makes plays that needs to be made, which results in points.

Lebron tries to get championships.


Kobe has 5 of them.
Hugemongous difference.