Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

[Mirko Cro Cop]

Straight up....

[PistolPete44]

he might be more complete than magic johnson

[FatComputerNerd]

Maybe, but Oscar and Bird could both be argued.

[boozehound]

nah, I dont think so. Hes the most athletic or something like that. And has a hell of a well rounded game. Dont think its the most complete ever though.

[Crystallas]

Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?


No, you haven't seen a lot of basketball. And no, watching Iverson while you were in Diapers doesn't count.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He's up there with bird/BigO/mj

[RoundMoundOfReb]

he might be more complete than magic johnson
Magic wasn't as good defensively though.

[Myth]

Jordan :confusedshrug:

[Kurosawa0]

Right there with Bird, Magic and Oscar. Probably will be by the end of his career.

[Young X]

Kevin Garnett.

[nbaballllller]

i love how people suggest magic as being one of the most complete players ever... we arent just talking one side of the ball...

the only people in the discussion are james, jordan and bird

[SpecialQue]

We clearly don't have enough threads talking about how amazing Lebron is. I mean, wow. He really is something, isn't he?

[tmacattack33]

Jordan :confusedshrug:

Nah. MJ overall wins, but we're not talking overall, we're talking about someone who is very good in all things.

MJ:

Scoring: 10
Man on man defense: 10
Overall defense: 9.5
Passing: 7.5
Rebounding:7.5


Lebron gets at least 8.5 in all categories. Not many people would.

Lebron:

Scoring: 9
Man on Man defense: 8.5
Overall defense: 9
Passing: 9.5
Rebounding: 8.5



Bird might as well...idk, that was before my time.

Maybe Prime Grant Hill as well...but i don't know...his defense was weak, he was a better defender in Phoenix 3 yrs ago than he was in his prime.

Scottie Pippen probably makes at least 8.5 in all categories too.

[pauk]

Why not...?

At 6'9-260:

*Probably the best combination of size/speed/strengh/quickness/agility/stamina etc. ever
*PG skills (ballhandling/passing) only Magic had at that size and over
*Can guard basically all positions like only Scottie Pippen could.
*Can play basically all positions like only Magic Johnson could.
*Is arguably because of above the most versatile player ever overall.
*Can score with the best ever, all-time great volume scoring to efficiency ratio from the perimeter, scoring arsenal, good shooter (except from the FT line) and everything...
*Can rebound, can give you 10 a game if he wanted, same goes with assists...
*Fantastic bball IQ, leadership, intangibles etc.

The only "weakness" is his FT accuracy (75%).... except for that he is pretty much as close to "most complete" a player could realistically ever get....

[SpecialQue]

Why not...?

At 6'9-260:

*Probably the best combination of size/speed/strengh/quickness/agility/stamina etc. ever
*PG skills (ballhandling/passing) only Magic had at that size and over
*Can guard basically all positions like only Scottie Pippen could.
*Can play basically all positions like only Magic Johnson could.
*Is arguably because of above the most versatile player ever overall.
*Can score with the best ever, all-time great volume scoring to efficiency ratio from the perimeter, scoring arsenal, good shooter (except from the FT line) and everything...
*Can rebound, can give you 10 a game if he wanted, same goes with assists...
*Fantastic bball IQ, leadership, intangibles etc.

The only "weakness" is his FT accuracy (75%).... except for that he is pretty much as close to "most complete" a player could realistically ever get....

So awesome. I'm fapping to that list.

[KevinNYC]

i love how people suggest magic as being one of the most complete players ever... we arent just talking one side of the ball...

the only people in the discussion are james, jordan and bird

and Oscar.

[scandisk_]

and Oscar.

Yup, probably UP there with the Big O

[tmacattack33]

Why not...?

At 6'9-260:

*Probably the best combination of size/speed/strengh/quickness/agility/stamina etc. ever
*PG skills (ballhandling/passing) only Magic had at that size and over
*Can guard basically all positions like only Scottie Pippen could.
*Can play basically all positions like only Magic Johnson could.
*Is arguably because of above the most versatile player ever overall.
*Can score with the best ever, all-time great volume scoring to efficiency ratio from the perimeter, scoring arsenal, good shooter (except from the FT line) and everything...
*Can rebound, can give you 10 a game if he wanted, same goes with assists...
*Fantastic bball IQ, leadership, intangibles etc.

The only "weakness" is his FT accuracy (75%).... except for that he is pretty much as close to "most complete" a player could realistically ever get....

:rockon:

[pauk]

No really... very thoroughly trying to be as reasonable, logical and factual here... The only other guys that deserve an argument here is Oscar Robertson & Michael Jordan... maybe Larry Bird aswell..

[gengiskhan]

Straight up....

Larry Bird

Magic Johnson

Michael Jordan

Oscar Robertson

Hakeem Olaijuwon

David Robinson

Scottie Pippen

etc.....etc....etc.....etc.....etc...

[Pointguard]

Yeah, he is. As I argue in other post, he frequently plays 1-4 offensively and defensively in this year often. He does guard centers on occasion as well. Nobody has moved around as frequently as he has - except maybe KG in Minny??? Now that he is posting up he can play everywhere on the court. Now that the center position is horrible, Lebron legitimately can dominate every position. He would go around every center without problem, and he could affect the best center in the game with his defense.

To me the most versatile all over the court were Baylor, Magic, Bird, KG, Big O and Pippen. None of them could dominate at every position. Handle, Power, Speed, Skill, Touch, Coordination, Vision, Lateral movement, Quickness, Shooting, Anticipation, Judgement, etc. Yeah, not only is Lebron the most versatile but in practicality he actualizes it much more than other players ever did if you break it down to ten positions.

[DatAsh]

I guess that depends on what that term means to you. I see it as one of the all time greats with the least weaknesses.

Of the player's I've seen, Jordan is the most complete. He was good to great at almost every aspect of basketball.

Mid range scoring
Long range scoring
fast break scoring
posting up
slashing
finishing at the rim
catching and shooting
free throw shooting
off ball offense
screen setting
half court passing
fast break passing
offensive awareness
playmaking
offensive rebounding
defensive rebounding
boxing out
ball handling
shot blocking
stealing
defensive awareness
on ball perimeter defense
off ball perimeter defense
on ball post defense
off ball post defense
help defense

Red I'd give to Jordan, Blue I'd give to Lebron, Black is too close to call. That's just the way I see it though. I think a lot of people take that statement to mean the best overall at the big four: scoring, rebounding, passing, and defense. By that definition, Lebron and Bird would probably be at the top of my list.

[Linspired]

Why not...?

At 6'9-260:

*Probably the best combination of size/speed/strengh/quickness/agility/stamina etc. ever
*PG skills (ballhandling/passing) only Magic had at that size and over
*Can guard basically all positions like only Scottie Pippen could.
*Can play basically all positions like only Magic Johnson could.
*Is arguably because of above the most versatile player ever overall.
*Can score with the best ever, all-time great volume scoring to efficiency ratio from the perimeter, scoring arsenal, good shooter (except from the FT line) and everything...
*Can rebound, can give you 10 a game if he wanted, same goes with assists...
*Fantastic bball IQ, leadership, intangibles etc.

The only "weakness" is his FT accuracy (75%).... except for that he is pretty much as close to "most complete" a player could realistically ever get....


6ft 8 with shoes on

[tpols]

scoring arsenal.
:roll: :roll:

Dude has two moves drive or shoot

[talkingconch]

His athleticism is crazy, we'll see in a few years as he ages if he can have a well rounded game.

[tpols]

Larry Bird

Magic Johnson

Michael Jordan

Oscar Robertson

Hakeem Olaijuwon

David Robinson

Scottie Pippen

etc.....etc....etc.....etc.....etc...
What do you think about kobe man?

[tmacattack33]

I guess that depends on what that term means to you. I see it as one of the all time greats with the least weaknesses.

Of the player's I've seen, Jordan is the most complete. He was good to great at almost every aspect of basketball.

Mid range scoring
Long range scoring
fast break scoring
posting up
slashing
finishing at the rim
catching and shooting
free throw shooting
off ball offense
screen setting
half court passing
fast break passing
offensive awareness
playmaking
offensive rebounding
defensive rebounding
boxing out
ball handling
shot blocking
stealing
defensive awareness
on ball perimeter defense
off ball perimeter defense
on ball post defense
off ball post defense
help defense

Red I'd give to Jordan, Blue I'd give to Lebron, Black is too close to call. That's just the way I see it though. I think a lot of people take that statement to mean the best overall at the big four: scoring, rebounding, passing, and defense. By that definition, Lebron and Bird would probably be at the top of my list.

Yeah man, lol. That's what I broke it down into.

You just damn near broke it down into as much detail as their NBA 2K attributes :roll:

[SpecialQue]

What do you think about kobe man?

I love Kobe, but...come on.

[DatAsh]

Yeah man, lol. That's what I broke it down into.

You just damn near broke it down into as much detail as their NBA 2K attributes :roll:

I've never played the NBA 2K game. I was just listing everything I could think of at the time. I probably missed a few things.

[ripthekik]

only thing is such a shame that he has no courage, and loves to team up with stellar teammates to boost his own chances.

[Linspired]

Nah. MJ overall wins, but we're not talking overall, we're talking about someone who is very good in all things.

MJ:

Scoring: 10
Man on man defense: 10
Overall defense: 9.5
Passing: 7.5
Rebounding:7.5


Lebron gets at least 8.5 in all categories. Not many people would.

Lebron:

Scoring: 9
Man on Man defense: 8.5
Overall defense: 9
Passing: 9.5
Rebounding: 8.5



Bird might as well...idk, that was before my time.

Maybe Prime Grant Hill as well...but i don't know...his defense was weak, he was a better defender in Phoenix 3 yrs ago than he was in his prime.

Scottie Pippen probably makes at least 8.5 in all categories too.

if bron is 9 in scoring than jordan is 12

there is a huge difference between those 2 in terms of scoring ability.

[DatAsh]

if bron is 9 in scoring than jordan is 12

there is a huge difference between those 2 in terms of scoring ability.

I'd say the difference in scoring between the two is about the same as the difference in passing.

[Pushxx]

Nope.

[RRR3]

:roll: :roll:

Dude has two moves drive or shoot
:facepalm

[Hank]

No really... very thoroughly trying to be as reasonable, logical and factual here... The only other guys that deserve an argument here is Oscar Robertson & Michael Jordan... maybe Larry Bird aswell..

:applause:

[tikay0]

Kevin Garnett.

:applause:

Bunch of noobs in here that forgot how well rounded KG was in his prime. The man is 50 years old, and still putting it down, minus his knees.

KG's defensive impact >>>>>> LBJ. Of course, I'm talking prime KG.

[fpliii]

It's definitely not clear-cut, but he has a case...the other contenders:

[Nevaeh]

Larry Bird

Magic Johnson

Michael Jordan

Oscar Robertson

Hakeem Olaijuwon

David Robinson

Scottie Pippen

etc.....etc....etc.....etc.....etc...


Pip has never been anywhere NEAR close to being as clutch as Lebron has during his career. Lebron also led 2 separate teams to the finals, something Pip never did.

[tpols]

Pip has never been anywhere NEAR close to being as clutch as Lebron has during his career. Lebron also led 2 separate teams to the finals, something Pip never did.
This has literally nothing to do with the ops thread.

[Money 23]

Jordan, LeBron, Kobe and maybe Pippen are the most complete players I've ever seen.

All could shoot, score, post up, footwork, pass (when they want, Kobe) ...

But what separates these guys, their defensive impact. They were equally dominant on the other end of the floor.

So in terms of being a "complete" player, these guys take the cake, from what I've seen.

[madmax]

short answer - yes, he is. It's not arguable either

[Vienceslav]

It's pretty cool watching the NBA right now eh?
Future GOAT in Durant and Future TOP 3 player in Lebron playing every other night.
Naw , i'm just exaggerating but still with Lebron we might have somebody going into top 5 all time which is pretty great to argue , i'm sure in the future there are going to be excellent threads about that ,think about it of the players who's legacies are pretty much set at the moment you can't really make an argument for them to be in the top 5 , i'm talking about Duncan and Kobe you could probably make a case for these to to be as high as 7 if you really tried ,but Lebron and Durant both have a chance to go higher if their careers continue on the pace some of their supporters on this forum project them to go.
As for Lebron being the most complete player ever , it's so hard to tell because you have to take into account the supporting cast he has and the only way you could fairy judge that would be if you gave the other guys in the conversation the same and see what they can do with it.
We never saw this Lebron in Cleveland and we just can't say for sure if this maturation was inevitable or if it is a by product of teaming up with Wade and Bosh.
What we can probably say for sure is that Lebron is the most gifted player at his position/size though if we were talking most gifted at any size Shaq just seems to be more[if you had all the players ever at age 20 and had no additional information about how their career would play out you take Shaq at #1].
He is a great passer though probably not quite Magic Johnson level ,but the edge he has over him on defensive end and his freakish athleticism just might be enough to put him over Magic in this regard only thing i can point out Lebron might be lacking are some signature clutch shots which lead to championships , if you want to put somebody over Jordan he needs to have highlights where he wins a ring with the last shot , MJ simply set the bar that high.

[Teanett]

pippen, kg, jordan, grant hill

heck i'd even say paul pierce but he's not as athletic as lebron.

[DonDadda59]

His skills in the post still leave much to be desired.

[28renyoy]

Probably David Robinson TBH

Elite scorer, rebounder, defender, passer(for his position), and probably the greatest ball handler at the center position in history.

And :lol @ LeBron being 6'9. I guess he'll be 6'10 next year. If he's 6'9, then Durant is over 7'

[arifgokcen]

Lebron was 6'7.75 in his rookie season barefoot.I remember an article dont ask me where.So it safe to assume he is 6'9 in shoes.NBA players heights are listed in shoes.Even the man himself said so.6'9 and 260+

Coming back to most complete player.I think he is by far the most complete player ever.Let me put it like this jordan is GOAT or magic is/maybe better or others.However we have never had somebody that can do it all on court.

Lebron literally can do anything on court.Jordan as great as he is has never defended or played 4/5.Thats what i understand when you say complete.He has to be able to play and defend and do anything on the floor.

Guys like magic who can do it all on the offensive side of the floor.
Guys like rodman who can do it all on the defensive side of the floor

But we never had the combination.

[red1]

Lebron was 6'7.75 in his rookie season barefoot.I remember an article dont ask me where.So it safe to assume he is 6'9 in shoes.NBA players heights are listed in shoes.Even the man himself said so.6'9 and 260+

Coming back to most complete player.I think he is by far the most complete player ever.Let me put it like this jordan is GOAT or magic is/maybe better or others.However we have never had somebody that can do it all on court.

Lebron literally can do anything on court.Jordan as great as he is has never defended or played 4/5.Thats what i understand when you say complete.He has to be able to play and defend and do anything on the floor.

Guys like magic who can do it all on the offensive side of the floor.
Guys like rodman who can do it all on the defensive side of the floor

But we never had the combination.
no he is not 6'9. he measured 6'7.25 at the predraft combine

[Young X]

KG is the only player that can literally do EVERYTHING on the court.

- Average 6 assists as a 7-footer? Check.
- Shoot over 80% from the line? Check.
- Play point guard? Check.
- Rebound and defend as good as anyone? Check.
- Great shooter? Check.
- Great post player? Check.
- etc

The only player as complete as him is Jordan. That's it.

[arifgokcen]

no he is not 6'9. he measured 6'7.25 at the predraft combine
Dude i already know that but after that in his rookie season he was measured at 6'7.75 thats why i said rookie season not predraft.Considering he was just 18 its very plausible that he grew 0.5' in 6 months.

[28renyoy]

KG is the only player that can literally do EVERYTHING on the court.

- Average 6 assists as a 7-footer? Check.
- Shoot over 80% from the line? Check.
- Play point guard? Check.
- Rebound and defend as good as anyone? Check.
- Great shooter? Check.
- Great post player? Check.
- etc

The only player as complete as him is Jordan. That's it.

Wrong. David Robinson was a rich man's KG

[Young X]

Wrong. David Robinson was a rich man's KG
David Robinson wasn't the shooter, passer, or ball handler that KG is.

[arifgokcen]

KG is the only player that can literally do EVERYTHING on the court.

- Average 6 assists as a 7-footer? Check.
- Shoot over 80% from the line? Check.
- Play point guard? Check.
- Rebound and defend as good as anyone? Check.
- Great shooter? Check.
- Great post player? Check.
- etc

The only player as complete as him is Jordan. That's it.

Problem with that KG never played either guard positions especially he never played PG he played point forward.The problem was his handles.He had one of the best handles as true 7 footer still he didnt have the guard ability.To bring the ball up the floor slash your way into the lane create opportunities for others.

Jordan had the same problem.He is the greatest wing player and GOAT however he never played a big man game.

Lebron onthe other hand did both

[red1]

Dude i already know that but after that in his rookie season he was measured at 6'7.75 thats why i said rookie season not predraft.Considering he was just 18 its very plausible that he grew 0.5' in 6 months.
Yeah it is possible that he grew but if I have never seen a measurement of 6'8 barefoot. He is 6'8 in shoes.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I don't see how Lebron is more complete than Jordan. Bird was also more complete than Lebron.


Nah. MJ overall wins, but we're not talking overall, we're talking about someone who is very good in all things.

MJ:

Scoring: 10
Man on man defense: 10
Overall defense: 9.5
Passing: 7.5
Rebounding:7.5

Jordan's all around defense deserves a higher rating than his man to man defense.


Probably David Robinson TBH

Elite scorer, rebounder, defender, passer(for his position), and probably the greatest ball handler at the center position in history.

Hakeem was the more complete center, and a better ball-handler than Robinson, who you just called the greatest ball-handler at the center position.

Walton is also up there for most complete center.

[Pointguard]

Yeah, he is. As I argue in other post, he frequently plays 1-4 offensively and defensively in this year often. He does guard centers on occasion as well. Nobody has moved around as frequently as he has - except maybe KG in Minny??? Now that he is posting up he can play everywhere on the court. Now that the center position is horrible, Lebron legitimately can dominate every position. He would go around every center without problem, and he could affect the best center in the game with his defense.

To me the most versatile all over the court were Baylor, Magic, Bird, KG, Big O and Pippen. None of them could dominate at every position. Handle, Power, Speed, Skill, Touch, Coordination, Vision, Lateral movement, Quickness, Shooting, Anticipation, Judgement, etc. Yeah, not only is Lebron the most versatile but in practicality he actualizes it much more than other players ever did if you break it down to ten positions.

If you play all the positions, you complete the puzzle. If you have a guy that is among the best at each position, you complete the puzzle. The positions are the most practical way to see what you lack and where you are strongest. In college you learn all the parts of the game and how it all comes together. Its broken down by position and offense and defense. Players function at the level of a skill sets at each position. And just because MJ had the ability, doesn't mean he functioned as a complete player. He rarely moved into the other positions. Yao Ming had the ability to be a SF but he rarely functioned like that.

Lots of teams lack in a very good number of details (offensive rebounding/blocking/post play etc.) however Miami can win the championship. Because at the more practical level they succeed in some measure of dominance in position play. You can't keep them from running, you can't keep them from getting easy baskets, its hard to counter their speed, etc. At the detail level Metta steals the ball more than Lebron. At the functional level it's tragic if Lebron steals the ball and ok if Metta gets one more a game. The game functions and is strategized at the level of positional play.

Lebron plays 1-4 from game to game and he will go to the five once in awhile - last week he played 8 positions in the two games (Lakers/Utah) I saw (Lebron rarely plays the SG on offense). He is rarely outplayed at any position because he used his skillset, natural gifts, and knowlege all the time. KG is the only other player that for years played across six positions with regularity and would dip to the full ten over a ten game period. Of course Lebron and KG were among the best defenders as well.

Below are some great rounded figures.
Baylor in a less refined game would play SF, PF and SG at least offensively - had a year and a half span where he averaged 36/19/5.
Big O five years at 30/9/11. Maybe somebody can speak to their defense.

Chamberlain 24/24/8 over two full years and was arguably the best defensive player.
Wilt in piecemeal averaged 50ppg/27 rebs/ and 8.6 assist.
Jordan had that 32.5/8/8 and I'm sure he was first team all defense as well that year?

Below are the only two that I know played 9 or more positions while putting up these numbers. They also were among the best defenders in the game when they did it.
KG 23/13.4/6
Lebron 27/8/6

[LeBird]

Agree with Pointguard. Yeh, I think he is the most complete player ever. Definitely up there with Bird and Big O IMO.

[BoutPractice]

Surprised it took so long for Hakeem to get mentioned. I think he belongs on those lists. At his position, one's game doesn't get much more complete than that... Similar to Jordan, he wasn't an elite passer (not that he wasn't very good when he wanted) or long range shooter but made up for it in almost every other area of the game.

[bdreason]

He's one of the most complete players in NBA history, no doubt. And that's without even having a legitimate post game. If he can add that to his arsenal over the next few years...

[DatAsh]

Agree with Pointguard. Yeh, I think he is the most complete player ever. Definitely up there with Bird and Big O IMO.

Bird I agree with, but why Oscar? He was a better passer than Lebron, but Lebron is easily the better rebounder and defender.

[Pointguard]

Bird I agree with, but why Oscar? He was a better passer than Lebron, but Lebron is easily the better rebounder and defender.

Big O had the most years of applying himself at all aspects of the game. That 30/9/11 for five years - while not really caring about having an all around game, has to get you some mention.

[madmax]

Yeah it is possible that he grew but if I have never seen a measurement of 6'8 barefoot. He is 6'8 in shoes.

then how come Jordan and Kobe aren't listed 6'5 instead of 6'6? It's a common knowledge that both are of that height barefoot...

[tazb]

Some of the people that are listed on the first page (Larry, Magic) are not even close as good as LeBron defensively. LeBron literally has to do everything for this Miami Heat team to succeed. Score, rebound, assist, set teammates up, and most importantly shut down the other teams best player.

[KOBE143]

Nope, Magic, MJ, Kobe are more complete player than LeBrick who doesnt have post game..

[Teanett]

Nope, Magic, MJ, Kobe are more complete player than LeBrick who doesnt have post game..

this is true.
jordan has more of a back to the basket big man game than lebron.

lebron doesnt play center like magic did, he just happens to be the biggest the guy on the floor for the heat sometimes.

[Pointguard]

this is true.
jordan has more of a back to the basket big man game than lebron.

lebron doesnt play center like magic did, he just happens to be the biggest the guy on the floor for the heat sometimes.
true, but very few centers do these days anyway. I'm pretty sure Lebron scores more points at the rim than any player in the league and he's connects at a rate as high as the best post players do, sobeit, its thru fastbreaks and penetration. Sign of the Times.