Coach Nick Compares MJ's 69 point game to Kobe's 81 Point game

[juju151111]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTk1AOJfApk&feature=g-all-u
Thoughts/comments?

[IGOTGAME]

Its really not even kobes most impressive scoring game. Pretty sure coach nick takes a predictable angle.

[longtime lurker]

81>69

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Coach Nick reminds me of DMAVS41. :oldlol:

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

It's a shame he lets his knowledge of the game be clouded by bias.

[juju151111]

81>69
69+18 rebounds > 81

[SHAQisGOAT]

Kobe's scoring against Dallas was more impressive imo

[SevereUpInHere]

69+18 rebounds > 81


Overtime :confusedshrug:

[juju151111]

Overtime :confusedshrug:
Ur point?

[eliteballer]

What ridiculous "analysis". On the first play he says Bosh doesnt come over to help yet doesnt mention ANYTHING about Bonner providing better help D than Bosh was even in position to provide.

I've seen another Jordan/Kobe video of his where he cherry picks plays and concludes "Jordan is better".

It continues with nonsense like that and he doesnt even note how the Cavs interior defenders rarely leave their feet when Jordan get inside. Kobe scored over 50 points in the 2nd half. His game was more impressive.

[jstern]

In this one he compares the two.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmK1R17QpJU&feature=g-all-c

I wrote this in a thread about that video: I value his opinion because after the Heat lost I believe game 1 of the Finals, he broke the game down and talked about how OKC was going to have trouble with the Heat, and then the Heat won 4 in a row. No one was giving the Heat a chance after game 1. Yet the way he broke down the game, and described his conclusion, who would have thought that Oklahoma had just beaten the Spurs 4 straight, and Durant was looking like Jordan after OKC won game 1. The Heat won the next 4 games.

[SevereUpInHere]

Ur point?

Extra 5 minutes of game time. Is it that complicated?

[sekachu]

81>69





kobe could get 69 but he ll never ever with 18 rebounds and 6 assist at the same time in a game.

[sekachu]

Extra 5 minutes of game time. Is it that complicated?





81 is one of the greatest scoring performance but overall performance 69 is better

[kennethgriffin]

coach nick is smart when his man crush with MJ isnt involved in his videos


it shows through in this one


i strongly disagree with his point that "jordan being more explosive" and "kobe "not having as much of a physical advantage" is used to somehow say jordans 69 is more impressive


wouldnt the guy who drops 81 with average athleticism be much more impressive than a guy dropping 69 with a major advantage in athleticism?


its basically saying kobe scored 81 with pure skill

that > 69 in a higher paced era and a much lower point total

[DatAsh]

coach nick is smart when his man crush with MJ isnt involved in his videos


it shows through in this one


i strongly disagree with his point that "jordan being more explosive" and "kobe "not having as much of a physical advantage" is used to somehow say jordans 69 is more impressive


wouldnt the guy who drops 81 with average athleticism be much more impressive than a guy dropping 69 with a major advantage in athleticism?


its basically saying kobe scored 81 with pure skill

that > 69 in a higher paced era and a much lower point total

Impact vs skill shouldn't really matter if we're trying to determine who had the greater single game impact.

I watched the video, and unfortunately have to agree with others here who have said that he seems a bit biased.

Both were great games and I'm not really sure who's I prefer from an all around impact standpoint.

[kennethgriffin]

Impact vs skill shouldn't really matter if we're trying to determine who had the greater single game impact.

I watched the video, and unfortunately have to agree with others here who have said that he seems a bit biased.

Both were great games and I'm not really sure who's I prefer from an all around impact standpoint.


this isnt a discussion on who is the better player

its who had the better game


better player you don't discount physical advantages. anything and everything in your favor can be used

better performance in a game you have to take into account how much harder it is to drop 81 without a physical advantage as apposed to dropping 69 and being twice as quick/fast as everyone else on the floor and being able to jump over anyone

you have to factor in that kobe wasnt near his athletic peak of 2003... while jordan was still at the end of his athletic peak


the only guys i ever hear say jordans 69 is better than kobes 81 are jordan fans

its like any biased fan of any player ... theyre all gonna pick who they like most.

[KOBE143]

81 >>> 69

Whats to be compared? :confusedshrug:

[lilgodfather1]

Didn't watch the video, but if he is just talking about the amount of points scored the obvious answer is 81 is better. If he is talking about the overall game, as in the entire stat line than MJ's is better imo. If he is talking about the difference in defense than it's MJ's. The Raptors were pretty bad...

Again 81 is always better than 69, but if the overall impact is being discussed than I guess you could say MJ's is better. I've seen a few of his video's and his bias shines through, so to say it is unbiased is utterly wrong when he is speaking of MJ.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe OUTSCORED the Raptors BY HIMSELF in the 2nd Half, 55 to 41.

Kobe was ONE POINT SHY from tying the Raptors in points the last 3 quarters of the game, Toronto scored 68, Kobe scored 67.

I think it's obvious which one was better.

[Cali Syndicate]

All I have to say is that 3rd quarter by Kobe was freakin nasty.

Cooled down a lot in the 4th. Still credit for getting to the line when his line wasn't fire anymore. Became apparent though he was chasing the record books with half the quarter left.

[blacknapalm]

he's right that raptors are on of the worst defensive teams historically. the lack of contested shots in that game was ridiculous.

it wasn't nearly as biased as some of you made it seem. he even pointed out the bogus charge call on kobe. he also pointed out a couple miscues by MJ late...the missed FT and losing ehlo in the waning seconds.

the only thing i didn't get was why he was talking about general explosion and such. he was comparing individual games but that sounded like a career retrospective statement.

at 5:07, i don't understand why that's called a blind screen and not a rub screen. i guess because the screener didn't come up to meet the ball?

what's funny is i don't even think those are their best scoring games. kobe's 62 in 3 qtrs vs. mavs was a back breaker. MJ's 63 vs. boston defense in the playoffs was awesome too...especially as a second year player who was just getting his wind back and knocking off overall rust. both of those are more impressive to me.

regardless, these are some of the best scoring performances imo. wilt himself said he wasn't that happy with his 100 point game as he didn't like his demeanor and style of play.

i give the edge to kobe as far as scoring. that's not going to be touched for a long, long time. ridiculous FT stretch around that time too. i don't think anybody will touch that 40+ point scoring barrage in february that he had either for a long time.

overall game? MJ.

[Calabis]

Overtime :confusedshrug:

And still took less shots :roll:

[RRR3]

It's a shame he lets his knowledge of the game be clouded by bias.
You should take your own advice. You're one of the more knowledgable posters I've seen on here in terms of breaking down the way the game is played, don't always have to leap to defend "Lawd Gawdbe". And I realize the irony considering I'm a T-Mac/LBJ/Chalmers homer:D

It's all good, though, I hope that didn't come off as saying you're not a good poster, because I think you are :cheers:

[Ne 1]

Threads like this is why Jordan has been bad for NBA history.


You have an insane video making a case for 69>81. Just like some how 6 championships>11 championships.

Its beyond bizarre that Jordan's achievements are slowly becoming the standard despite the fact that many others achieved more in those same things people are comparing.

[Ne 1]

81 >>> 69

Whats to be compared? :confusedshrug:

Nothing. All this type of shit does is exposes Jordan stans as insecure. If you really think Jordan is the undisputed GOAT and Kobe isn't even close, then there is no reason to make such ludicrous arguments.

Everyone in the NBA got to play against Toronto that year. No one got close to scoring 81. MJ played against teams with worse records in his career, he never scored 81. Jordan took more shots than the 48 Kobe did against the Raptors and didn't ever got close to 81.

Just give Kobe his due for that game. He had the most impressive scoring performance captured on film in NBA history. PERIOD. That in itself doesn't make him better than Jordan. But don't try to diminish his accomplishment by arguing MJ's 69 in overtime is better.

[The Iron Fist]

69+18 rebounds > 81
4quarters>4quarters plus 3 overtimes

[Ne 1]

And still took less shots :roll:

Who else was gonna take the shots? The rest of the Lakers shot a combined 32% from the field that game.

btw Jordan put up 43 shots against the 1989-1990 expansion team Magic. Just 3 less than Kobe and his team lost.

[The Iron Fist]

kobe could get 69 but he ll never ever with 18 rebounds and 6 assist at the same time in a game.
Just like Kobe would NEVER win without Shaq?

[kennethgriffin]

jordan fans are so insecure. they cant let kobe have anything

if someone started a thread about kobe having the biggest crap measured in courics

jordan fans would go bono on all of us and say jordans crap that is 12 courics less than kobes is somehow more impressive because he could squeeze his sphincter quicker and he could palm the bowl. and the conditions were tougher around him like a cold seat or something


you know jordan fans


theyre all f*cking M*orons

:lol

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Oh NOW defense matters


Jordan mythologists :facepalm :roll: :applause:

[Asukal]

I see a lot of butthurt kobe dickriders! :roll: :roll:

Why you guys mad? 81 is so great right? :roll:

[ihoopallday]

I wonder which players today could score 81 or more. I think that Durant and Melo have the best chance.

[DStebb716]

i'd rather 69 a girl than 81 her but that's about the only situation where 69 > 81

[KG215]

you know jordan fans


theyre all f*cking M*orons

:lol

http://lans-soapbox.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Pot_Meet_Kettle.jpg

[longtime lurker]

69+18 rebounds > 81

Why are you adding rebounds. Let's compare apples to apples 81>69 that's just a fact. 2nd highest scoring game in league history highest in the modern era

[longtime lurker]

kobe could get 69 but he ll never ever with 18 rebounds and 6 assist at the same time in a game.

And Michael Jordan will never get 81. What's your point?

[Heavincent]

I wonder which players today could score 81 or more. I think that Durant and Melo have the best chance.

Nobody.

[longtime lurker]

Nobody.

This is pretty much the answer. You have to have an incredibly versatile offensive games, then be in the zone and be extremely hot! A perfect storm for it to happen.

[Heavincent]

This is pretty much the answer. You have to have an incredibly versatile offensive games, then be in the zone and be extremely hot! A perfect storm for it to happen.

Nobody in the NBA is even capable of getting into the kind of "zone" that Kobe could get into at his peak. Hell, Kobe might even have the best "on fire" mode in NBA history.

[Jacks3]

perfect storm? dude had 62 in three quarters just a couple of weeks earlier. :lol

[jstern]

For someone to score 81 points again, they would have to be hot, on fire, a complete ball hug forcing shots even after it's clear your team is going to win already. That part is very important, that mindset. And to play a really crappy defensive team that's putting in less effort than they usually do.

The chances of all those scenarios coming together is pretty low. If you're missing just one of those things, then you have no shot. A Lebron type for example is not going to start forcing his offense once his team is clearly going to win, so he doesn't have the mindset.

[longtime lurker]

perfect storm? dude had 62 in three quarters just a couple of weeks earlier. :lol

And... he sat out the last quarter with his team up by 20. Meanwhile during the Raptors game his team was down by 20 at the half. They actually needed him that game from him(don't know if it says more about the Raptors or how shit that Lakers team was)

[longtime lurker]

Nobody in the NBA is even capable of getting into the kind of "zone" that Kobe could get into at his peak. Hell, Kobe might even have the best "on fire" mode in NBA history.

Gotta agree his on fire mode is unparalleled. I think Durant or Melo would be the best bets but they still lack the offensive skills or focus to really challenge for it.

[sekachu]

And Michael Jordan will never get 81. What's your point?




Michael Jordan could get 81 if he focus on offence only without rebounds or assists against team like raptor. Have you ever seen kobe has high rebounds or assist(usually less than 3 assists or even zero :oldlol: ) when he is scoring big?

[dajadeed]

Gotta agree his on fire mode is unparalleled. I think Durant or Melo would be the best bets but they still lack the offensive skills or focus to really challenge for it.

This. Kobe "on fire" is more unfair than video game Kobe on fire. Why do you think coaches speak so much about "always compete, and don't let him demoralize you" when talking about players guarding him?

When hot, I've seen him stroll up and hit 3 pointers from 2 or 3 feet behind the line in straight possessions. :oldlol: He has a case for best ever on fire mode because he has no weakness offensively. NONE. So that means when he is on fire, there is literally nothing you can do. Not a damn thing.

Jordan was better, but I've never seen a guard do the things on offense that Kobe does when he is on fire. Not even Jordan.

81 is obviously > than 69, but his 62 against Dallas was better. His 61 in Madison Square Garden is my favorite ever, that reverse pivot that had Spike laughing was :bowdown:

I wish the younger idiots around here would go back and watch Kobe against the Kings, Spurs, Blazers, etc. in the WC playoffs back during the 3 peat. He was such a ****ing beast back then, even playing with one of the most dominant players ever, he was good enough to make you go :wtf:

[Money 23]

For someone to score 81 points again, they would have to be hot, on fire, a complete ball hug forcing shots even after it's clear your team is going to win already.
That's the point, he was in the mid 60's when LA was up double digits in that game, and even with defensive attention (if you want to call it that from the atrocious Raptor d) ... he still refused to use his situation to get anyone else involved.

Why?

That's why it feels contrived. MJ may not be able to get to 80+ cause Kobe when hot hoists three balls, but MJ could easily have a few 70 something point games with this Kobe type mind set of get mine, self promotion scoring wise, at the extent of everything else in the game (defense, passing, teammates) against some really crappy competition.

The game has lost a lot of luster for me, and other basketball fans in retrospect. Hell, David Robinson put in 71 when that's all he was focused on doing. And it came against the '94 Clippers, a similar situation to the 2006 Raptors. No one would dare say Robinson was a better or even more complete offensive prospect than Mike.


A Lebron type for example is not going to start forcing his offense once his team is clearly going to win, so he doesn't have the mindset.
And I've seen LeBron have ridiculously hot games where the potential was there to do something like that ... and he took his foot off the scoring pedal, and got others involved or did other things. I think he even commented on it after a game v.s. the Knicks in 2010 where he maybe had like 30 in a quarter or something, and spoke of how his game wouldn't allow him to be indulgent scoring wise at the expense of his teammates.

Same goes for Melo and Durant they both have an offensive repitoire in terms of versatility, and willingness to launch threes that could see them rival an 81 point type game given the right conditions and opponent, but I don't think they either of them are that type to either have that kind of focus, stubborness, or selfish agenda (Durant)

It's an amazing feat in its selfish-ness more than anything in retrospect. Look how he alienated himself with his teammates that game. They didn't even seem enthused enough to congradulate him and really feel good about it. He basically ignored everyone for an entire game. Believe it or not that's the only thing that makes this game special. Kobe's awkward, sometimes appalling ability to focus entirely on himself, even at the expense of others and not feel weird or embarrassed about what he's doing. it's very self indulgent. And I'm not taking away from his talents as a player, his game is beautiful, but this isn't the feat alot of his stans make it out to be. Believe it or not, I feel it could be easily duplicated if someone with comparable talents really made the effort to do it (LeBron, Durant, Melo being the people w/ offense capable of doing it, but with different mind sets or lack of intangibles such as focus ...)

[RRR3]

That's the point, he was in the mid 60's when LA was up double digits in that game, and even with defensive attention (if you want to call it that from the atrocious Raptor d) ... he still refused to use his situation to get anyone else involved.

Why?

That's why it feels contrived. MJ may not be able to get to 80+ cause Kobe when hot hoists three balls, but MJ could easily have a few 70 something point games with this Kobe type mind set of get mine, self promotion scoring wise, at the extent of everything else in the game (defense, passing, teammates) against some really crappy competition.

The game has lost a lot of luster for me, and other basketball fans in retrospect. Hell, David Robinson put in 71 when that's all he was focused on doing. And it came against the '94 Clippers, a similar situation to the 2006 Raptors. No one would dare say Robinson was a better or even more complete offensive prospect than Mike.


And I've seen LeBron have ridiculously hot games where the potential was there to do something like that ... and he took his foot off the scoring pedal, and got others involved or did other things. I think he even commented on it after a game v.s. the Knicks in 2010 where he maybe had like 30 in a quarter or something, and spoke of how his game wouldn't allow him to be indulgent scoring wise at the expense of his teammates.

Same goes for Melo and Durant they both have an offensive repitoire in terms of versatility, and willingness to launch threes that could see them rival an 81 point type game given the right conditions and opponent, but I don't think they either of them are that type to either have that kind of focus, stubborness, or selfish agenda (Durant)

It's an amazing feat in its selfish-ness more than anything in retrospect. Look how he alienated himself with his teammates that game. They didn't even seem enthused enough to congradulate him and really feel good about it. He basically ignored everyone for an entire game. Believe it or not that's the only thing that makes this game special. Kobe's awkward, sometimes appalling ability to focus entirely on himself, even at the expense of others and not feel weird or embarrassed about what he's doing. it's very self indulgent. And I'm not taking away from his talents as a player, his game is beautiful, but this isn't the feat alot of his stans make it out to be. Believe it or not, I feel it could be easily duplicated if someone with comparable talents really made the effort to do it (LeBron, Durant, Melo being the people w/ offense capable of doing it, but with different mind sets or lack of intangibles such as focus ...)
Kobe fans will not respond well to this post.


There's a storm a-brewin'

[Heavincent]

That's the point, he was in the mid 60's when LA was up double digits in that game, and even with defensive attention (if you want to call it that from the atrocious Raptor d) ... he still refused to use his situation to get anyone else involved.

Why?

That's why it feels contrived. MJ may not be able to get to 80+ cause Kobe when hot hoists three balls, but MJ could easily have a few 70 something point games with this Kobe type mind set of get mine, self promotion scoring wise, at the extent of everything else in the game (defense, passing, teammates) against some really crappy competition.

The game has lost a lot of luster for me, and other basketball fans in retrospect. Hell, David Robinson put in 71 when that's all he was focused on doing. And it came against the '94 Clippers, a similar situation to the 2006 Raptors. No one would dare say Robinson was a better or even more complete offensive prospect than Mike.


And I've seen LeBron have ridiculously hot games where the potential was there to do something like that ... and he took his foot off the scoring pedal, and got others involved or did other things. I think he even commented on it after a game v.s. the Knicks in 2010 where he maybe had like 30 in a quarter or something, and spoke of how his game wouldn't allow him to be indulgent scoring wise at the expense of his teammates.

Same goes for Melo and Durant they both have an offensive repitoire in terms of versatility, and willingness to launch threes that could see them rival an 81 point type game given the right conditions and opponent, but I don't think they either of them are that type to either have that kind of focus, stubborness, or selfish agenda (Durant)

It's an amazing feat in its selfish-ness more than anything in retrospect. Look how he alienated himself with his teammates that game. They didn't even seem enthused enough to congradulate him and really feel good about it. He basically ignored everyone for an entire game. Believe it or not that's the only thing that makes this game special. Kobe's awkward, sometimes appalling ability to focus entirely on himself, even at the expense of others and not feel weird or embarrassed about what he's doing. it's very self indulgent. And I'm not taking away from his talents as a player, his game is beautiful, but this isn't the feat alot of his stans make it out to be. Believe it or not, I feel it could be easily duplicated if someone with comparable talents really made the effort to do it (LeBron, Durant, Melo being the people w/ offense capable of doing it, but with different mind sets or lack of intangibles such as focus ...)

The only reason they won was because Kobe alienated his teammates. That team was hot garbage. Why would he pass to Kwame Brown? :lol

It was perfectly understandable as to why Kobe kept it for himself. That was often their best chance at winning back then. Just give it to Kobe and get out of the way.

[Money 23]

The only reason they won was because Kobe alienated his teammates.
That's a terrible excuse. Kobe can playmake with the best of them.

After he had the defense focused on him after a venomous scoring binge, he could'vE EASILY upped his teammates confidence and egos by getting them easy buckets.

Kobe knows how to play the game the right way, he was being indulgent for the sake of it. IE it was a hot shooting night, terrible team he KNEW he could beat by himself, so he took the opportunity to contrive a historic game. You can see the un natural and non organic thought bubble in Kobe's head while watching him sometimes.

He knew he had the ability to do this type of game when back in December he had the 62 in 3 quarters game v.s. Dallas. Which to me was more impressive (despite the amount of free throws) ... because the opponent was MUCH better. So he took an opportunity and snatched it to add or build his resume. Kobe's always been concerned with his image or legacy first, the actual game at hand second. It's been commented on by numerous teammates. It's the greatness and the awkwardness of it that results. It isn't natural. It's not I want to dominate and win, and whatever comes of my legacy because of it ... great.

Sure the Lakers were hot garbage, but he got them involved PLENTY in the 1st round of the playoffs in the first 5 games which gave THEM GREAT success.

Don't give me this bull trying to justify it. It was an absurdly selfish, self promoting agenda that was entirely contrived. There was numerous points late in the game where it was sealed, or he could've started getting others involved.

Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, and Brian Cook no matter how garbage can convert open layups when the entire defense is staring at Kobe hoisting shots or dribbling.

That defense of the Raptors was EQUALLY hot garbage as Kobe's supporting cast, and you don't think a player of Kobe's caliber could've got them involved? You have to be a total Kobe stan to not admit that there is a point in this game where his scoring binge was starting to become excessive and pointless when the game was already in hand, and when other people could've been contributing?

It then raises a bigger question to Kobe stans who use this one game to justify his greatness over more impactful (and better) players. How come he never had this type of performance against better competition, in higher pressure situations when it TRULY would've made a difference? When the Lakers TRULY needed it?

Where was Kobe going 81 point game mode, using his entire scoring skill package to win a game for his Lakers when it was actually needed against a quality opponent? Like say the 2008 Celtics in the Finals?

:biggums:

Exactly. Kobe hoisting all kinds of jumpers and scoring 81 points against a lowly 2006 Raptor team wasn't the only way to win THAT GAME. His scoring punch was needed sure, but not to those extents.

That's a piss poor validation excuse for the self indulgent, contrived historic game by the Kobe Kids and Kobe apostles. Re-watch that game with an objective eye and beyond some really nice shots here and there, given context, opponent, game meaning, and total point output ... it isn't NEAR as impressive as made out to be.

[eliteballer]

:oldlol: this clown.

Kobe had 56 in 3 quarters in 2002 in one of the games Shaq was injured. He sat out the 4th. He scored over 50 in the 2nd half vs the Raptors, AND he brought the team back from a double digit deficit. there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with staying in a game a few minutes longer to get a record. It's been done countless times at even worse degrees, DRob's 70, Michael Cage for the rebounding title, Thompson and Gervin for the scoring title....but let's single out Kobe. You enormous twit.

You act like LeBron doesn't indulge...LOL. There are countless stories on how he likes to pad his stats. Of course you wouldnt remember how he tried to upstage Kobe's 61 in the garden with a 50 point triple double, he was even disqualified a rebound from getting that triple double because it was such a sham.

[dajadeed]

^^ People should be banned for being that ignorant.

Yeah, you shouldn't score 81 points, in the process bring your team back from a 15+ second half deficit, because some moron will think it's self-indulgent.

This ain't little league, grow some balls.

Oh, Kobe hurt his teammates feelings because he won them the game :oldlol:

[Heavincent]

That's a terrible excuse. Kobe can playmake with the best of them.

After he had the defense focused on him after a venomous scoring binge, he could'vE EASILY upped his teammates confidence and egos by getting them easy buckets.

Kobe knows how to play the game the right way, he was being indulgent for the sake of it. IE it was a hot shooting night, terrible team he KNEW he could beat by himself, so he took the opportunity to contrive a historic game. You can see the un natural and non organic thought bubble in Kobe's head while watching him sometimes.

He knew he had the ability to do this type of game when back in December he had the 62 in 3 quarters game v.s. Dallas. Which to me was more impressive (despite the amount of free throws) ... because the opponent was MUCH better. So he took an opportunity and snatched it to add or build his resume. Kobe's always been concerned with his image or legacy first, the actual game at hand second. It's been commented on by numerous teammates. It's the greatness and the awkwardness of it that results. It isn't natural. It's not I want to dominate and win, and whatever comes of my legacy because of it ... great.

Sure the Lakers were hot garbage, but he got them involved PLENTY in the 1st round of the playoffs in the first 5 games which gave THEM GREAT success.

Don't give me this bull trying to justify it. It was an absurdly selfish, self promoting agenda that was entirely contrived. There was numerous points late in the game where it was sealed, or he could've started getting others involved.

Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, and Brian Cook no matter how garbage can convert open layups when the entire defense is staring at Kobe hoisting shots or dribbling.

That defense of the Raptors was EQUALLY hot garbage as Kobe's supporting cast, and you don't think a player of Kobe's caliber could've got them involved? You have to be a total Kobe stan to not admit that there is a point in this game where his scoring binge was starting to become excessive and pointless when the game was already in hand, and when other people could've been contributing?

It then raises a bigger question to Kobe stans who use this one game to justify his greatness over more impactful (and better) players. How come he never had this type of performance against better competition, in higher pressure situations when it TRULY would've made a difference? When the Lakers TRULY needed it?

Where was Kobe going 81 point game mode, using his entire scoring skill package to win a game for his Lakers when it was actually needed against a quality opponent? Like say the 2008 Celtics in the Finals?

:biggums:

Exactly. Kobe hoisting all kinds of jumpers and scoring 81 points against a lowly 2006 Raptor team wasn't the only way to win THAT GAME. His scoring punch was needed sure, but not to those extents.

That's a piss poor validation excuse for the self indulgent, contrived historic game by the Kobe Kids and Kobe apostles. Re-watch that game with an objective eye and beyond some really nice shots here and there, given context, opponent, game meaning, and total point output ... it isn't NEAR as impressive as made out to be.

I did catch the game again a few weeks ago on NBA TV, and they really did need that huge scoring outburst to win, even if it was against a crappy Raptors team. Sure, he was kind of pouring it on in the fourth quarter, but so what? That's who Kobe is. He wants to score. Not try to set up crappy players like Kwame Brown and Smush Parker. He'll facilitate more when he's playing with players that are actually decent. We saw it plenty between 08-10. Not to mention everyone in the damn building wanted to see Kobe shoot rather than see Kwame Brown botch yet another layup.

And to answer your question about "81 point" mode when it's needed, it's happened plenty of times. Nothing like 81 points obviously, but he's had a shitload of scoring outbursts in the playoffs.

I'm not trying to justify anything btw. It's one of the greatest performances in NBA history. What's there to justify? :lol

[The Iron Fist]

That's a terrible excuse. Kobe can playmake with the best of them.

After he had the defense focused on him after a venomous scoring binge, he could'vE EASILY upped his teammates confidence and egos by getting them easy buckets.

Kobe knows how to play the game the right way, he was being indulgent for the sake of it. IE it was a hot shooting night, terrible team he KNEW he could beat by himself, so he took the opportunity to contrive a historic game. You can see the un natural and non organic thought bubble in Kobe's head while watching him sometimes.

He knew he had the ability to do this type of game when back in December he had the 62 in 3 quarters game v.s. Dallas. Which to me was more impressive (despite the amount of free throws) ... because the opponent was MUCH better. So he took an opportunity and snatched it to add or build his resume. Kobe's always been concerned with his image or legacy first, the actual game at hand second. It's been commented on by numerous teammates. It's the greatness and the awkwardness of it that results. It isn't natural. It's not I want to dominate and win, and whatever comes of my legacy because of it ... great.

Sure the Lakers were hot garbage, but he got them involved PLENTY in the 1st round of the playoffs in the first 5 games which gave THEM GREAT success.

Don't give me this bull trying to justify it. It was an absurdly selfish, self promoting agenda that was entirely contrived. There was numerous points late in the game where it was sealed, or he could've started getting others involved.

Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, and Brian Cook no matter how garbage can convert open layups when the entire defense is staring at Kobe hoisting shots or dribbling.

That defense of the Raptors was EQUALLY hot garbage as Kobe's supporting cast, and you don't think a player of Kobe's caliber could've got them involved? You have to be a total Kobe stan to not admit that there is a point in this game where his scoring binge was starting to become excessive and pointless when the game was already in hand, and when other people could've been contributing?

It then raises a bigger question to Kobe stans who use this one game to justify his greatness over more impactful (and better) players. How come he never had this type of performance against better competition, in higher pressure situations when it TRULY would've made a difference? When the Lakers TRULY needed it?

Where was Kobe going 81 point game mode, using his entire scoring skill package to win a game for his Lakers when it was actually needed against a quality opponent? Like say the 2008 Celtics in the Finals?

:biggums:

Exactly. Kobe hoisting all kinds of jumpers and scoring 81 points against a lowly 2006 Raptor team wasn't the only way to win THAT GAME. His scoring punch was needed sure, but not to those extents.

That's a piss poor validation excuse for the self indulgent, contrived historic game by the Kobe Kids and Kobe apostles. Re-watch that game with an objective eye and beyond some really nice shots here and there, given context, opponent, game meaning, and total point output ... it isn't NEAR as impressive as made out to be.
Kwames career fg % is less than 50%. His two best seasons were with Kobe. Never did he even break 60%. He fumbled damn near every pass Kobe fed him. Why would Kobe feed his dumb ass the ball?

[Clifton]

This. Kobe "on fire" is more unfair than video game Kobe on fire. Why do you think coaches speak so much about "always compete, and don't let him demoralize you" when talking about players guarding him?

When hot, I've seen him stroll up and hit 3 pointers from 2 or 3 feet behind the line in straight possessions. He has a case for best ever on fire mode because he has no weakness offensively. NONE. So that means when he is on fire, there is literally nothing you can do. Not a damn thing.
And what about when he's not on fire? What about the other 90% of the time? What is he doing for you then?

Shooting.

Coach Nick is "biased" in favor of players who play the game well, and "biased" against players who play the game badly. So he likes Kobe's footwork and form, and when he makes good plays in rhythm. He likes Jordan in the same instances. The difference is that Jordan played that way 80% of the time, while Kobe plays that way 40% of the time.

When he shows Kobe jacking up a shot with nobody under the basket, or taking like 19 dribbles and then jacking up something terrible, taking long 2s out of rhythm after bringing the ball up, leading to fast breaks for the other team and a lack of rhythm in his teammates, he's not being "biased." The footage is right there in front of you.

One more thing: Player A trading baskets with a very good team in the closing minutes of a very close game is more impressive than Player B scoring a lot of points in a game that is not close.

There are posters here dogging MJ for "needing" OT to score his 69 against a very good team. And congratulating Kobe and giving him the nod even though a bunch of those points (probably everything after point #69) were scored when the game was already decided and everyone was just thinking, "gosh, I wonder how many points he'll score."

That isn't something intelligent people can disagree about, either. MJ vs. Kobe, 81 vs. 69, whether Coach Nick is right... we can disagree about that. But to say things like "well 81 is a greater number than 69, duh of course," or "MJ "needed" overtime to get his points" ... these are simply bad opinions. They're wrong. And if you hold them you need to change. Because basically, you're a bad fan. The game is not a living thing to you. You live on ISH, nba.com and basketball-reference. You live for numbers. Basketball isn't played with a calculator. 2 points isn't 2 points. There are a lot of things that don't show up in the stat sheet.

And I would say MJ excelled in all of them (or almost all). And that Kobe does not. And that accounts for what some call "bias" in Coach Nick. If you disagree, fine, let's argue... but with something arguable.

[IGOTGAME]

And what about when he's not on fire? What about the other 90% of the time? What is he doing for you then?

Shooting.

Coach Nick is "biased" in favor of players who play the game well, and "biased" against players who play the game badly. So he likes Kobe's footwork and form, and when he makes good plays in rhythm. He likes Jordan in the same instances. The difference is that Jordan played that way 80% of the time, while Kobe plays that way 40% of the time.

When he shows Kobe jacking up a shot with nobody under the basket, or taking like 19 dribbles and then jacking up something terrible, taking long 2s out of rhythm after bringing the ball up, leading to fast breaks for the other team and a lack of rhythm in his teammates, he's not being "biased." The footage is right there in front of you.

One more thing: Player A trading baskets with a very good team in the closing minutes of a very close game is more impressive than Player B scoring a lot of points in a game that is not close.

There are posters here dogging MJ for "needing" OT to score his 69 against a very good team. And congratulating Kobe and giving him the nod even though a bunch of those points (probably everything after point #69) were scored when the game was already decided and everyone was just thinking, "gosh, I wonder how many points he'll score."

That isn't something intelligent people can disagree about, either. MJ vs. Kobe, 81 vs. 69, whether Coach Nick is right... we can disagree about that. But to say things like "well 81 is a greater number than 69, duh of course," or "MJ "needed" overtime to get his points" ... these are simply bad opinions. They're wrong. And if you hold them you need to change. Because basically, you're a bad fan. The game is not a living thing to you. You live on ISH, nba.com and basketball-reference. You live for numbers. Basketball isn't played with a calculator. 2 points isn't 2 points. There are a lot of things that don't show up in the stat sheet.

And I would say MJ excelled in all of them (or almost all). And that Kobe does not. And that accounts for what some call "bias" in Coach Nick. If you disagree, fine, let's argue... but with something arguable.
Coach nick was a basketball manager and is now a high school coach. His videos often seem biased bc they cherry pick plays, he also is bad at breaking down tape. This comes from a guy who has sat down with college coaches and gone through tape.

Btw if you are getting most of your substantive info about ball from announcers and YouTube guys then you are never gonna understand a lot about the game.

Honestly these YouTube guys do more harm than good BC they create an army of people who think they know what they are talking about.

[SpecialQue]

So, aside from highlights, how many people here have sat down and watched the entire 81 point game? It was pretty obvious that none of the other Lakers were getting it done in that game.

Also, ANY high scoring game like this requires the player to be selfish. I don't see how that's a knock against Kobe. And if 81 is such a meager accomplishment, than how come no selfish players last season didn't go for it against a team like the Bobcats?

[Asukal]

Coach Nick is well a coach duhhh.... did you expect him to say Kobe chucking to 81 is better than MJ trying to win an overtime game and got 69 points?

When Kobe had 70 points, the Lakers are up by a lot and at that point he is just going for the records. MJ would probably sit down if he got to that point.

[longtime lurker]

^^ People should be banned for being that ignorant.

Yeah, you shouldn't score 81 points, in the process bring your team back from a 15+ second half deficit, because some moron will think it's self-indulgent.

This ain't little league, grow some balls.

Oh, Kobe hurt his teammates feelings because he won them the game :oldlol:

This :lol some people are simply amazing.

[IGOTGAME]

Coach Nick is well a coach duhhh.... did you expect him to say Kobe chucking to 81 is better than MJ trying to win an overtime game and got 69 points?

When Kobe had 70 points, the Lakers are up by a lot and at that point he is just going for the records. MJ would probably sit down if he got to that point.
Kobe did that a couple weeks before and got hammered. His teammate and coach and city wanted him to do it.

If people watched the game they would have seen that Kobe was furious and that is what caused the outburst. There was a span of 4 or 5 stupid plays in a row where it looked like no one wanted to be on the court.Kbe than took over. I remember watchingthe game live ready to strangle some guys in the first half.

[longtime lurker]

Coach Nick is well a coach duhhh.... did you expect him to say Kobe chucking to 81 is better than MJ trying to win an overtime game and got 69 points?

When Kobe had 70 points, the Lakers are up by a lot and at that point he is just going for the records. MJ would probably sit down if he got to that point.

Who cares why not go for the record. I don't believe all this Mj would have done this or Mj would have done that BS. Kobe has had countless games when he still could have piled on but sat out whole quarters. Instead of criticizing the man for what he didn't do you should appreciate the performance.

[IGOTGAME]

Can someone link the actual game thread for the 81 point game?

[Asukal]

Who cares why not go for the record. I don't believe all this Mj would have done this or Mj would have done that BS. Kobe has had countless games when he still could have piled on but sat out whole quarters. Instead of criticizing the man for what he didn't do you should appreciate the performance.

Are you stupid? I'm not saying Kobe shouldn't go for the record. I'm replying to all these cry babies saying coach Nick is biased. Coach Nick is breaking down the performances from a coach's point of view and from that we can understand why he would prefer MJ's 69 to Kobe's 81 performance. :facepalm

[andgar923]

Who cares why not go for the record. I don't believe all this Mj would have done this or Mj would have done that BS. Kobe has had countless games when he still could have piled on but sat out whole quarters. Instead of criticizing the man for what he didn't do you should appreciate the performance.

YOU may not believe it, but there's been many instances in which MJ just sat down even tho he could've scored more points or reached a triple double.

[longtime lurker]

YOU may not believe it, but there's been many instances in which MJ just sat down even tho he could've scored more points or reached a triple double.

I didn't say I don't believe Mj wouldn't have sat out but I'm not like the rest of you arm chair psychologists that post on insidehoops who think they can read a player's mind. Given the same situation Mj might have stayed in of course there are games where he's sat out just like there are games Kobe has sat out where he could have kept playing and just like countless other NBA players who have done the same. Please lets not act like Mj is some saint or villify Kobe for staying in.

[andgar923]

I didn't say I don't believe Mj wouldn't have sat out but I'm not like the rest of you arm chair psychologists that post on insidehoops who think they can read a player's mind. Given the same situation Mj might have stayed in of course there are games where he's sat out just like there are games Kobe has sat out where he could have kept playing and just like countless other NBA players who have done the same. Please lets not act like Mj is some saint or villify Kobe for staying in.

I don't believe all this Mj would have done this or Mj would have done that BS

I guess I must've misread or misunderstood.

[Nevaeh]

That's the point, he was in the mid 60's when LA was up double digits in that game, and even with defensive attention (if you want to call it that from the atrocious Raptor d) ... he still refused to use his situation to get anyone else involved.

Why?

That's why it feels contrived. MJ may not be able to get to 80+ cause Kobe when hot hoists three balls, but MJ could easily have a few 70 something point games with this Kobe type mind set of get mine, self promotion scoring wise, at the extent of everything else in the game (defense, passing, teammates) against some really crappy competition.

The game has lost a lot of luster for me, and other basketball fans in retrospect. Hell, David Robinson put in 71 when that's all he was focused on doing. And it came against the '94 Clippers, a similar situation to the 2006 Raptors. No one would dare say Robinson was a better or even more complete offensive prospect than Mike.


And I've seen LeBron have ridiculously hot games where the potential was there to do something like that ... and he took his foot off the scoring pedal, and got others involved or did other things. I think he even commented on it after a game v.s. the Knicks in 2010 where he maybe had like 30 in a quarter or something, and spoke of how his game wouldn't allow him to be indulgent scoring wise at the expense of his teammates.

Same goes for Melo and Durant they both have an offensive repitoire in terms of versatility, and willingness to launch threes that could see them rival an 81 point type game given the right conditions and opponent, but I don't think they either of them are that type to either have that kind of focus, stubborness, or selfish agenda (Durant)

It's an amazing feat in its selfish-ness more than anything in retrospect. Look how he alienated himself with his teammates that game. They didn't even seem enthused enough to congradulate him and really feel good about it. He basically ignored everyone for an entire game. Believe it or not that's the only thing that makes this game special. Kobe's awkward, sometimes appalling ability to focus entirely on himself, even at the expense of others and not feel weird or embarrassed about what he's doing. it's very self indulgent . And I'm not taking away from his talents as a player, his game is beautiful, but this isn't the feat alot of his stans make it out to be. Believe it or not, I feel it could be easily duplicated if someone with comparable talents really made the effort to do it (LeBron, Durant, Melo being the people w/ offense capable of doing it, but with different mind sets or lack of intangibles such as focus ...)

And that's exactly why some here were suggesting that Kobe pointing upward after this game should be his Staples Center Statue. That was Kobe's legacy in a nutshell.
http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif

[RRR3]

And that's exactly why some here were suggesting that Kobe pointing upward after this game should be his Staples Center Statue. That was Kobe's legacy in a nutshell.
http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif
This coment won't sit well with the mamba boys.

[Nevaeh]

This coment won't sit well with the mamba boys.

In the Immortal words of Denzel Washington:

"F@ck em, and anybody who look like em"

[RRR3]

In the Immortal words of Denzel Washington:

"F@ck em, and anybody who look like em"
:lebronamazed: :yaohappy:

[Legends66NBA7]

I agree with Nev on that... Kobe pointing up would be a great statue, if they do decide to make one for Kobe.

[longtime lurker]

And that's exactly why some here were suggesting that Kobe pointing upward after this game should be his Staples Center Statue. That was Kobe's legacy in a nutshell.
http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif

Wow so much butthurt in this one :oldlol:

[Nevaeh]

Wow so much butthurt in this one :oldlol:

Hey dude, it wasn't me who suggested that pose as a statue.
http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Heavincent]

Some of you guys act like it's a bad thing that 81 is one of Kobe's most most memorable moments. Like the guy above me saying it's "Kobe's legacy in a nutshell". Yeah, so what? It's one of the greatest performances in NBA history.

People trying to discredit this game are just being stupid imo.

[BlueandGold]

"coach" nick pretty much cherry picks all of his footage, choosing which plays to analyze and which ones he doesn't.

On one hand he analyzes a terrible Kobe shot selection during a regular season game during the thunder and then the nuggets and on the other hand he shows a beautiful Jordan pass off a double team while MJ's team was peaking in the 96 finals.. of course there are much more dead possessions in a regular season game than compared to the finals.

To say that Kobe is more of a ballhog than Jordan is like the kettle calling the pot black.. Jordan started the whole idea of the ballhog/ball-dominant SG. That is why people say Kobe and MJ are so close.. not just their on-the-court styles but also their mental demeanor.