#8 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

[Deuce Bigalow]

Shaquille O'Neal was voted the #7 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops.

23.7 PPG | 10.9 RPG | 2.5 APG

4

[riseagainst]

Kobe.

[BuffaloBill]

Tim Duncan

[Suckafree]

Can't decide between Hakeem and Timmy...

Gunna go with TD!

[millwad]

Olajuwon.

[eurobum]

wilt.

[alenleomessi]

duncan

[krazymofo]

shit i'll say it......

Kobe

[Yung D-Will]

Hakeem

[Bigsmoke]

Hakeem Olajuwon

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe Bryant
5 Titles
2 Finals MVPs
MVP
10 All-NBA First Teams
14 All-Star Teams
Lakers all-time leading scorer
5th on the all-time scoring list
3rd on the all-time playoff scoring list
2nd most 30pt playoff games in NBA history

He's had the best career out of the remaining players imo

[TheSilentKiller]

Hakeem

[tmacattack33]

Hakeem.

[DTreats]

This is Kobe.

Duncan:roll:

[Sarcastic]

Kobe Bean Bryant.

[Smoke117]

Hakeem Olajuwon

[Ne 1]

Kobe Bryant.

[OmniStrife]

Timmy-D.

[RRR3]

Timmy-D.
+1

[Dragonyeuw]

My gut is telling me Duncan, but I'm gonna go with Kobe Bean here....can't overlook his longevity and the second half of his career post-Shaq is arguably borderline top ten worthy on its own merits. Add his 1B role during the 2000-2002 3peat, and anywhere in the 7-9 range is fair at this point.

[Punpun]

Kobe bryant. It pains me to have to nominate so late tho.

[NOHCP3]

The Dream

[riseagainst]

My gut is telling me Duncan, but I'm gonna go with Kobe Bean here....can't overlook his longevity and the second half of his career post-Shaq is arguably borderline top ten worthy on its own merits. Add his 1B role during the 2000-2002 3peat, and anywhere in the 7-9 range is fair at this point.

:applause: :applause: :bowdown:

[Freedom Kid7]

Tim Duncan. Best post-Jordan player imo

[kennethgriffin]

:roll:

why not go with the trend

make kobe the 15-20 range and ruin the list even more than it already is with this agenda trolling



I vote hakeem!

[Heavincent]

http://celestonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/kobe-bryant.jpg

[RRR3]

:roll:

why not go with the trend

make kobe the 15-20 range and ruin the list even more than it already is with this agenda trolling



I vote hakeem!
Griff=:mad::rant:

[INDI]

Kobe

[hangintheair]

Kobe Bryant

[Freedom Kid7]

:roll:

why not go with the trend

make kobe the 15-20 range and ruin the list even more than it already is with this agenda trolling



I vote hakeem!
You're man actually has a chance to get the number he wore all those years ago.

[Deuce Bigalow]

:roll:

why not go with the trend

make kobe the 15-20 range and ruin the list even more than it already is with this agenda trolling



I vote hakeem!
You're being as insecure as the Lebron fans like pauk and RRR3 in that best playoff runs voting :oldlol:

[Odinn]

Moses Malone.

[riseagainst]

I'll (change my) vote to Kobe, but I'll probably get negged/flamed more by trolls.

[MasterDurant24]

Hakeem

[swag2011]

http://www.scenicreflections.com/ithumbs/Kobe_8_vs_Kobe_24_Wallpaper_t2ipm.jpg

^This guy of course. Split his career up and number 8 and 24 separately sh*ts on other people's careers. Put them together and then you make a legend. Will be close to top 5 when his career is done.

[RagingBull33]

hakeem

[BlackVVaves]

Tim Duncan. Duncan should have been #7 though, and Kobe #8.

[Ancient Legend]

Hakeem

[riseagainst]

Tim Duncan. Duncan should have been #7 though, and Kobe #8.

Just curious, so do you think Shaq's number 9?

[Harison]

Hakeem, the best overall center ever, who won with the least help as well.

Top 10 career plays:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GCyU0sKxqI&feature=player_embedded

Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwons Greatest Hits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBrEsNS9zKg

[rmt]

Duncan

[TheeBeast]

Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

Hakeem


this

:cheers:

[MJ23forever]

http://buggingoutdaily.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/kobe_trophies_web.jpg

kobe bean bryant

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe for this spot, like another poster said he's had the best career out of any remaining players left atleast in IMHO.

Up next is Duncan or Hakeem

[Horde of Temujin]

Hakeem

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

Too many Lakers and Kobe people on here to make this a fair poll to begin with.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

hakeem

[riseagainst]

I think I've read somewhere in another thread that Hakeem's a little bit overrated in this forum. I can definitely see that here. Duncan should be picked before Hakeem.

[Legends66NBA7]

Too many Lakers people on here

The Lakers have the largest fanbase. It's not surprising that there are a lot of Laker fans on this forum:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185040

They double the next team's top fanbase on ISH.

[RRR3]

The Lakers have the largest fanbase. It's not surprising that there are a lot of Laker fans on this forum:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185040

They double the next team's top fanbase on ISH.
Lol quickening exposed

[rmt]

Some posters jump between skills and career as a criteria. They'll rank Russell #2-3 because of his winning when he had nowhere near the offensive skills of either Hakeem or Duncan. Then they turn around and rank Hakeem higher than Duncan when no reasonable person can say that Hakeem has won more or had a better career than Duncan. At least be consistent.

[riseagainst]

The Lakers have the largest fanbase. It's not surprising that there are a lot of Laker fans on this forum:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185040

They double the next team's top fanbase on ISH.



UPDATES (01/26)

Lakers tumor has grown over a HUNDRED!. :eek:

Raptors take the 2nd place! :applause:

Nets / Cavs are tied for 8th place. :applause:


1. Los Angeles Lakers [fan count = 103]
Mirjalovic, AJ2k8, john_d, moey-, Pursuer, mamba24, Kobe8, Mr. Jabbar, Kobe Jnr, Lakers13, ZeN, Disaprine, praneel, lakerspng, no pun intended, Juges8932, L.A. Jazz, nevetslc88, barbaroi, Jr Llaban, RazorBaLade, Phong, BlueandGold, crisoner, Kappy, Connoisseur, Bladers, The Choken One, monkeypox, NoGunzJustSkillz, gts, Babalu, Bodhi, D-Rose, Blue_Dog45, opps, catch24, TryToBeUnbias, Lakeshow3, Hiei, LosLakers, GMW, GOAT24, LA KB24, TheGreatDeraj, Kobe 4 The Win, ImmortalD24, FashionIssues, Replay32, Kensta, OG LeeTSkeeT, chazzy, alanLA92, K.Koscik, b4byt4ku, Mgamer20o0, Doranku, rfm767, rfoster24, Hamburgers, KoRn, shlver, SourGrapes, For_Three, Heilige, LongBeachLakers, kap, 1987_Lakers, hawke812, LA_Showtime, KeyNote, bedmon, The GM, Noble6-AC45, sonofthehill, Desperado, Laker4Lyfe, Willkill24, branslowski, SAKOTXA, N0Skillz, AirTupac, wakencdukest, Slam13, talkingconch, ICanDunk, Kobe Bean, brownmamba00, El Seano, Loneshot, bleedinpurpleTwo, Bosnian Sajo, d.bball.guy, Noof, Deuce Bigalow, SpecialQue, magic chiongson, GOATofGOATS, with malice, L8k3r5, SourGrapes, Droid101, LakersReign, White Mamba, Quickening,

2. Toronto Raptors [fan count = 47]
Semi, Skywalker, Batz, raptorfan_dr07, Sakkreth, PowerGlove, IssaBA, Phenith, Mboglee, bokes15, Beebo, T-Low, Tool, Parps, bada bing, Toni, kmart, hassano, POTTER21, Bcogswell, Done_And_Done, Laxlen, rosonviyavong, R-Pattz, Prodigy, pocketWs, Zan Tabak, RaininThrees, Dave3, T.O.RapsJays, lpublic_enemyl, Sham, Jesus Allen, Legends66NBA7, BoogieWoogieMan, bluerap, craigthomasb, AC Earl, kaiteng, Himan12, brwnman, Prodigy, Burgz, Tool, RAPSCANWIN, Zan Tabak, A.M.G.,

3. Chicago Bulls [fan count = 43]
rivas, Clocian-IGN, Calabis, fknc, RazielTheWolf, step_back, Dengness9, VishaltotheG, Indian guy, LosBulls, Warners0, KelticForce1349, Roundball_Rock, 97 bulls, chitownsfinest, Manute for Ever!, aem, Crystallas, juju151111, emsteez forreal, 3zazer1, bongolarry, FP10, ThemBombs, Undisputed, dann496, SuperPippen, Ruh-Roh, Rose, koBEDABEST, DRoseOwnsACamry, dee-rose, CHi1PriDe, BullsAj, nightprowler10, BlackMamba24, az00m, BASTEY, Samurai Swoosh, rodman91, Rnbizzle, DaPerceive, TheMan,

4. Boston Celtics [fan count = 38]
west, DaGreen, miller-time, AK47DR9, Splitz77, Clifton, dbugz, me_, Kevin_Garnett_5, pete's montreux, CeltsGarlic, I Love You, RajonKGcelts, Lebowski, m y t i n, Chamberlain, Derka, fregmonkey, Doctor Rivers, nbacardDOTnet, code green, dgnr8, Lil' Dino Radja, jayjona8732, TrueRob, Gear2, roffie, RR#9, dbugz, CelticBaller, JGXEN, BlackWhiteGreen, mans1ay3r, Celtics 1825, TonyD, Miserio, Marquis Daniels, ballup, Pushxx,

5. Miami Heat [fan count = 33]
plowking, WadeBoshBest, Fizdale, Alonzo Magic, PurpleChuck, Andrei89, KOLBCTEW, Samvt, MrEncinas, Papaya Petee, PAOK, JerrySteakhouse, projectpag, lukekarts, Peteballa, lacasner, Vicp493, dyna, fazzazz1k, nba_55, G-train, SIRI1, tommy3, Monta_Ellis, baccano, mikek85, shallehalle, D-Wade316, EnoughSaid, EndLockout, drizzy0503, Askmeificare, Hank,

6. New York Knicks [fan count = 32]
Snoop_Cat, SevereUpInHere, niko, Rekindled, Bano114, bagelred, DStebb716, bluechox, Court Vision, Sicknote, TudtudRage, Jasi, Sarcastic, jlawdrummer, NY-Knicks, NY Comeback, Rowe, DaniloGallinari, New York Knicks, Rican_Havok, WaltFrazier, blablabla, Clutch, bluechox2, RobertdeMeijer, 32Dayz, airchibundo507, SonOfMattGeiger, iDunk, NauruDude, bluechox2, keBin,

7. Phoenix Suns [fan count = 19]
OmniStrife, Xover, wagexslave, SteveNashMVPcro, DirtBag, mike_23_goat, blackification, 3stat2, Cyclone112, Maniak, livingby3's, AirJordan23, Grafbag, Jalman1, Spue, Nash-tastic, Mrofir, Derrick, Rab,

8. NJ/Brooklyn Nets [fan count = 15]
Silenttristo, ChuckOakley, iDunk, UK-NJ, Nets fan 93, MTing, Jerz Netz, BALLin01, wang4three, JerzeyBlaze, tpols, Blu, gigantes, D12"Magic", kidd2dwill,

=. Cleveland Cavaliers [fan count = 15]
Meticode, LBJMVP, mlh1981, chips93, 1~Gibson~1, Positive, bisk, FCN, jbryan1984, BigTicket, B-Low, LBJ 4 MVP, Black Joker, sixer6ad, Hernando, DukeDelonte13,

10. San Antonio Spurs [fan count = 14]
vinsane01, SCdac, GabeIsGone, FrankTony, Finger Roll, LMS4, LMFAO, icemanfan, SinJackal, JustinJDW, Timmy D for MVP, Pearleojam, icemanfan, Matty2Cool,

=. Orlando Magic [fan count = 14]
nestea(), mmsupra, Detroit, KissMySwag, josh99, zORi, MrMAgic023, HylianNightmare, k-vil, hoopslife, MagicBlaze, hovermaster, WoGiTaLiA1, Primary

=. Portland Trail Blazers [fan count = 14]
ODEN>DURANT, broy, Tuvi, EoJ, Cermet, Maga_1, KNOW1EDGE, Toizumi, Myth, glidedrxlr22, AznTacoLover, RintjeRitsma, beeboywhoo, kumquat,

13. Utah Jazz [fan count = 12]
Yung D-Will, magnax1, HeddaGambler, Quata, Chalkmaze, joshwake, Utahjazzforlife, Skep, DaCommish, UtahJazzFan88, DeronMillsap, DMV2,

14. Denver Nuggets [fan count = 11]
Mr Clutch Melo, NuggetsFan, keBin, TheAnchorman, WOW, w00terz, kurple, Kiarip, golddigger31, porebo, keBin,

=. Houston Rockets [fan count = 11]
YouGotServed, Jordandunk23, InYaoWeTrust, gyu, noob cake, paintingshade, Zak, kauaihawaii, DMizzle, el_locoteee, RocketGreatness, 3243,

=. Los Angeles Clippers [fan count = 11]
dough, qrich, LAClipsFan33, Al Thornton, EricGordon23, b0bab0i, eemas91, alenleomessi, TheCalmInsanity, Clippersfan86, Sterlingsucks,

=. Detroit Pistons [fan count = 11]
Apocalyptic0n3, flintstone, matt1016, Kombo, talk at ya, RaceBannana, DetroitPiston, Stuckey, Thumdar, Kargo, embersy,

=. Dallas Mavericks [fan count = 11]
creepingdeath, KnowledgeWithin, kentatm, miles berg, DirkNowitzki41, Bird, Silverbullit, ginobli2311, Aye Dee, Tide, kenny817,

19. Oklahoma City Thunder [fan count = 09]
jimmyzegg, MasterDurant24, Buffalobraves, No.45, Dudley, Jccouger, 50inchvertical, RandyOrton, O_City_Thunder, dunksby,

20. Washington Wizards [fan count = 08]
Agent_Zero, DC Zephyrs, 1Time4YourMind, scott0326, Koop1, kushrenada, DonD13, KingBeasley08,

=. Minnesota Timberwolves [fan count = 08]
FireMcFailPlease, B-Easy8, BankShot, 04mzwach, scarlett_love42, JellyBean, KGMN, DevilsAssassin,

=. Golden State Warriors [fan count = 08]
MMKM, novocaine, Logical, detotronix, Brujesino, 1manfastbreak, bsyde82, DeeDee, Sweens, Cali Syndicate,

23. Charlotte Bobcats [fan count = 07]
ukballer, thesnowman22, Quizno, Talent, CHAresurgence, BeebCats, 2LeTTeRS,

=. Indiana Pacers [fan count = 07]
Miller Time, DinoRadja40, catzhernandez, InspiredLebowski, SEEBASS1234, Reggie43, mentallooser,

=. Atlanta Hawks [fan count = 07]
J-Futuristic, Ikill, hawksdogsbraves, DyNAMiiK, allabouthawks, atljonesbro, Richesly,

26. Sacramento Kings [fan count = 06]
sak, Kingsfans818, bigboi_baller, Simple Jack, LaysUpBricks, Kings_Alex,

=. Memphis Grizzlies [fan count = 06]
Kebab Stall, zac, brooks_thompson, jawkam, mattvNJ, Status Quo,

28. Philadelphia 76ers [fan count = 05]
donsanchez306, CavsLebronMo, hateraid, Gallant, Grinder,

29. Milwaukee Bucks [fan count = 03]
Jasper, Redd22, bucks_ole,

30. New Orleans Hornets [fan count = 02]
zizozain, jcyrus10,
http://i.imgur.com/YNlUH.png

31. Tulsa Shock [fan count = -10] :no:
ashbelly, OnceInADECADE/8BeastlyXOIAD, O.J A 6'4Mamba, Team_Hollywood, YouCallILose/joyner82, NoName22, kaiiu, Peteballa, asdf1990, MeLO MvP 15,



he switched the bandwagon fast. :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

Too many Lakers and Kobe people on here to make this a fair poll to begin with.
Look at this guy trying to pretend like he's some Wilt historian.

Are you trying to say Kobe doesn't belong in the conversation?

Titles: Kobe 5, Hakeem 2, Duncan 4
Finals MVPs: Kobe 2, Hakeem 2, Duncan 3
MVPs: Kobe 1, Hakeem 1, Duncan 2
All-NBA Teams: Kobe 14, Hakeem 12, Duncan 13
All-Star Teams: Kobe 14, Hakeem 12, Duncan 13
DPOYs: Kobe 0, Hakeem 2, Duncan 0
Scoring Titles: Kobe 2, Hakeem 0, Duncan 0


Kobe has finished Top 5 in MVP voting 10 times

1st: 2008.
2nd: 2009.
3rd: 2003, 2007, 2010.
4th: 2006, 2011, 2012.
5th: 2002, 2004

Hakeem has finished Top 5 in MVP voting 6 times

1st: 1994
2nd: 1993
3rd:
4th: 1986, 1996
5th: 1989, 1995

Duncan has finished Top 5 in MVP voting 9 times

1st: 2002, 2003
2nd: 2001, 2004
3rd: 1999
4th: 2005, 2007
5th: 1998, 2000

[riseagainst]

Look at this guy trying to pretend like he's some Wilt historian.

Are you trying to say Kobe doesn't belong in the conversation?

Titles: Kobe 5, Hakeem 2, Duncan 4
Finals MVPs: Kobe 2, Hakeem 2, Duncan 3
MVPs: Kobe 1, Hakeem 1, Duncan 2
All-NBA Teams: Kobe 14, Hakeem 12, Duncan 13
All-Star Teams: Kobe 14, Hakeem 12, Duncan 13
DPOYs: Kobe 0, Hakeem 0, Duncan 0
Scoring Titles: Kobe 2, Hakeem 0, Duncan 0


Kobe has finished Top 5 in MVP voting 10 times

1st: 2008.
2nd: 2009.
3rd: 2003, 2007, 2010.
4th: 2006, 2011, 2012.
5th: 2002, 2004

Hakeem has finished Top 5 in MVP voting 6 times

1st: 1994
2nd: 1993
3rd:
4th: 1986, 1996
5th: 1989, 1995

Duncan has finished Top 5 in MVP voting 9 times

1st: 2002, 2003
2nd: 2001, 2004
3rd: 1999
4th: 2005, 2007
5th: 1998, 2000

?... just saying.

[arifgokcen]

duncan

[IGotACoolStory]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1205/tim.duncan.rare.photos/images/duncan-water.jpg

[Deuce Bigalow]

?... just saying.
oops :lol

[Mirko Cro Cop]

Kobe

[scm5]

Kobe.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Hakeem, but Kobe is also a good choice.

[lilblingy]

Kobe

[RRR3]

?... just saying.
Dat ether

[Legends66NBA7]

Lol quickening exposed


he switched the bandwagon fast. :lol


oops :lol

Yeah, that list needs an overhaul of sorts.

Nonetheless, the Lakers still have a lot of support.

[pegasus]

Kobe.

[KingJames99]

Kobe.

[riseagainst]

Yeah, that list needs an overhaul of sorts.

Nonetheless, the Lakers still have a lot of support.

Kobe at 8 isn't really outrageous though. If he was voted at 1-5 and won then it's probably actually due to the abundance of fans.

[Pushxx]

Tim Duncan

[RRR3]

Kobe at 8 isn't really outrageous though. If he was voted at 1-5 and won then it's probably actually due to the abundance of fans.
He was referring to the fan count thread

[Legends66NBA7]

Kobe at 8 isn't really outrageous though. If he was voted at 1-5 and won then it's probably actually due to the abundance of fans.

I don't have a problem with Kobe at #8, either. The more he continues to play at a high level, the more I see him being ranked higher by fans. And yes, agreed with second statement.

My comment was just that there are a lot of Lakers fans, regardless. I edited Kobe's name out for a reason. But most Laker fans would ride with Kobe for years, so they would correlate, but for me the Lakers and it's true fans will move on when Kobe's done... so the fans of the Lakers will still be there, because of the huge market and winning tradition.


He was referring to the fan count thread

In simpler terms, this.

[Dictator]

Kobe

[fsvr54]

Tim Duncan

[riseagainst]

I don't have a problem with Kobe at #8, either. The more he continues to play at a high level, the more I see him being ranked higher by fans. And yes, agreed with second statement.

My comment was just that there are a lot of Lakers fans, regardless. I edited Kobe's name out for a reason. But most Laker fans would ride with Kobe for years, so they would correlate, but for me the Lakers and it's true fans will move on when Kobe's done... so the fans of the Lakers will still be there, because of the huge market and winning tradition.



In simpler terms, this.

I got ya, it's cool. :cheers:

[BlackVVaves]

Just curious, so do you think Shaq's number 9?

In my list, team and career success in relation to individual performance narrowly trumps individual dominance solely. Hence:

MJ
Russell
Magic/Kareem
Kareem/Magic
Bird
Wilt
Duncan
Kobe
Shaq
Hakeem/Oscar Robertson

With tiers broken up into such, Shaq is in a tier of players consisting of:

himself
Duncan
Kobe
Hakeem/Oscar

Now, despite his own dominance, Shaq's success was supplemented with superior #2 and #1 options over the duration of his career. Penny Hardaway, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade. And in the twilight of his career, Steve Nash, Lebron James, and Paul Pierce + KG.

Shaq doesn't win rings in 2001 or 2002 without Kobe, especially 2001 when Kobe averaged 29, 6, and 5 in the regular and post season.

Shaq doesn't win a ring in 2006 without Wade going apeshit in the playoffs, including that wondrous game where he shot as many freethrows as the Mavericks attempted as a team in the Finals. :rolleyes:

Not to say the same can't be said for other players. But, Duncan, Hakeem, and Kobe post-Shaq did what they did with less. And, for me, that certainly a factor in comparing players who are all All-Time legends per their amazing resumes.

To me, it's all about staying consistent in your criteria though. Too many posters jump from the career factor to the peak factor player to player. If you're basing your list off peak dominance, and vote Shaq over Kobe, that's fine. But then, why are you voting Bird over Wilt? If your basing your list off career achievements and have Kareem over Wilt, that's fine. But then, why are you voting Bird over Duncan?

That's what I don't understand about certain posters. I won't call you all out, because your entitled to your own opinion. But I'm lead to believe with many, agendas are in play.

[Horatio33]

Tim Duncan.

[DuMa]

Duncan

[imnew09]

Kobe

[riseagainst]

In my list, team and career success in relation to individual performance narrowly trumps individual dominance solely. Hence:

MJ
Russell
Magic/Kareem
Kareem/Magic
Bird
Wilt
Duncan
Kobe
Shaq
Hakeem/Oscar Robertson

With tiers broken up into such, Shaq is in a tier of players consisting of:

himself
Duncan
Kobe
Hakeem/Oscar

Now, despite his own dominance, Shaq's success was supplemented with superior #2 and #1 options over the duration of his career. Penny Hardaway, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade. And in the twilight of his career, Steve Nash, Lebron James, and Paul Pierce + KG.

Shaq doesn't win rings in 2001 or 2002 without Kobe, especially 2001 when Kobe averaged 29, 6, and 5 in the regular and post season.

Shaq doesn't win a ring in 2006 without Wade going apeshit in the playoffs, including that wondrous game where he shot as many freethrows as the Mavericks attempted as a team in the Finals. :rolleyes:

Not to say the same can't be said for other players. But, Duncan, Hakeem, and Kobe post-Shaq did what they did with less. And, for me, that certainly a factor in comparing players who are all All-Time legends per their amazing resumes.

To me, it's all about staying consistent in your criteria though. Too many posters jump from the career factor to the peak factor player to player. If you're basing your list off peak dominance, and vote Shaq over Kobe, that's fine. But then, why are you voting Bird over Wilt? If your basing your list off career achievements and have Kareem over Wilt, that's fine. But then, why are you voting Bird over Duncan?

That's what I don't understand about certain posters. I won't call you all out, because your entitled to your own opinion. But I'm lead to believe with many, agendas are in play.

:applause: :applause:

[crisoner]

Kobe Bryant and he should be number 5.

[RRR3]

What's with this silly ISH myth that Shaq had a short span of time being a great player? :rolleyes: He was elite just as long as Kobe


Shaq's years as a superstar
1992-93: 23/14/2/1/4 on 56%
1993-94: 29/13/2/1/3 on 60%
1994-95: 29/11/3/1/2 on 58%
1995-96: 27/11/3/1/2 on 57%
1996-97: 26/13/3/1/3 on 56%
1997-98: 28/11/1/2 on 58%
1998-99: 26/11/2/1/2 on 58%
1999-00: 30/14/4/1/3 on 57% :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
2000-01: 29/13/4/1/3 on 57%
2001-02: 27/11/3/1/2 on 58%
2002-03: 28/11/3/1/2 on 57%
2003-04: 22/12/3/1/3 on 58%
2004-05: 23/10/3/1/2 on 60%
2005-06: 20/9/2/0/2 on 60%

Even when he was well past his prime, Shaq put up 18/8/2/1/1 on 61% in 2008-09.



Shaq>>>>Kobe. Stop with the myth that Kobe's "longevity" gives him the edge. :rolleyes:

[JMT]

Bryant

[BlackVVaves]

What's with this silly ISH myth that Shaq had a short span of time being a great player? :rolleyes: He was elite just as long as Kobe


Shaq's years as a superstar
1992-93: 23/14/2/1/4 on 56%
1993-94: 29/13/2/1/3 on 60%
1994-95: 29/11/3/1/2 on 58%
1995-96: 27/11/3/1/2 on 57%
1996-97: 26/13/3/1/3 on 56%
1997-98: 28/11/1/2 on 58%
1998-99: 26/11/2/1/2 on 58%
1999-00: 30/14/4/1/3 on 57% :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
2000-01: 29/13/4/1/3 on 57%
2001-02: 27/11/3/1/2 on 58%
2002-03: 28/11/3/1/2 on 57%
2003-04: 22/12/3/1/3 on 58%
2004-05: 23/10/3/1/2 on 60%
2005-06: 20/9/2/0/2 on 60%

Even when he was well past his prime, Shaq put up 18/8/2/1/1 on 61% in 2008-09.



Shaq>>>>Kobe. Stop with the myth that Kobe's "longevity" gives him the edge. :rolleyes:

I agree people need to stop downplaying Shaq's longevity, but to say his longevity is > Kobe's is an attempt to undermine Kobe's longevity as well.

I think right now, as in today, their longevity is equal. But, if at 34 and 35, Kobe still performs at a level that warrants a spot on those years' Top 10 of the year list (which I think he will, probably 6-7 this year, and 8-10 in 2014), then Kobe's longevity will trump Shaq's, and it wouldn't be very comparable when considering he'd almost be 20 years deep in the NBA at that point. 19 years to be exact. That means, for 16-17 years straight, Kobe would have been a Top 10 player in the NBA.

16 - 17 years.

[lakersfan2046]

Kobe Bean Bryant

[po3try]

Timmy D!

[SuperPippen]

Hakeem

[Legends66NBA7]

What's with this silly ISH myth

This is ISH. Aren't you aware of what you've been around to read for a year now, with over 10,000 posts ?

Besides, what hurt Shaq's career was leaving for so many other teams after 2004. For what I know, it's got more to do with that... then playing at a high level for a long time.


I agree people need to stop downplaying Shaq's longevity, but to say his longevity is > Kobe's is an attempt to undermine Kobe's longevity as well.

I think right now, as in today, their longevity is equal. But, if at 34 and 35, Kobe still performs at a level that warrants a spot on those years' Top 10 of the year list (which I think he will, probably 6-7 this year, and 8-10 in 2014), then Kobe's longevity will trump Shaq's, and it wouldn't be very comparable when considering he'd almost 20 years deep in the NBA at that point. 19 years to be exact. That means, for 16-17 years straight, Kobe would have been a Top 10 player in the NBA.

16 - 17 years.

I do think Kobe needs to win a MVP or Finals MVP (possibly both ?) to help strengthen that resume of longevity.

Do you feel the same ?

[Deuce Bigalow]

This is ISH. Aren't you aware of what you've been around to read for a year now, with over 10,000 posts ?

Besides, what hurt Shaq's career was leaving for so many other teams after 2004. For what I know, it's got more to do with that... then playing at a high level for a long time.



I do think Kobe needs to win a MVP or Finals MVP (possibly both ?) to help strengthen that resume of longevity.

Do you feel the same ?
I know you weren't responding to me, but it's pretty much impossible for Kobe to win the regular season MVP now.

[ThunderStruk022]

Looks like Kobe is getting all the Laker and Kobe stan votes, and Hakeem and Duncan are splitting all the other votes. Not that I have a problem with Kobe at #8 but, like someone said, there's just too many Lakers and Kobe fans for some of the voting to be fair and objective.

Anyway, I've got to go with Duncan. People like to talk about bad or mediocre supporting casts for a championship team and, for whatever reason, no one seems to really talk much about Duncan's so-so supporting casts in terms of championship teams. People just assume that he's played with Ginobili and Parker his entire career and that Robinson was still Robinson in 1999 and 2003.

Knock him for winning in a lockout shortened 1999 season if you want; I think that's a stupid knock on a championship team and player, but some people do it. Anyway, that season it was 2nd year Duncan and 33 year old Robinson. Robinson was still a good player but far from what he was in his prime and at his peak in the early to mid-90s. After that, he had some pretty decent role players, but nothing special: 30 year old past his prime Sean Elliott; 35 year old Mario Elie; 33 year old Avery Johnson; and 30 somethings Jaren Jackson and Jerome Kersey.

Then in 2003 Manu wasn't Manu, yet, Tony Parker was in just his second season and not yet in his prime, and David Robinson was old and a shell of his former self. Still, Duncan averaged 23-13-4-3 and led the Spurs to 60 wins, and then averaged 25-15-5-3 in the playoffs en route to his second championship and Finals MVP.

In 2005 Manu was at his best and Parker was pretty good (although not at his best quite yet), Bowen was Bowen, and after that it was guys like 34 year old Robert Horry, 33 year old Brent Barry, and Nazr Mohammed. Duncan had another Duncan-like season and won his 3rd championship and Finals MVP, once again with a solid but not great supporting cast.

2007 was the only year, in my opinion, that all three of Duncan, Manu, and Parker were at or near their best. While Parker was great in the Finals, Duncan was the playoffs MVP in my opinion, and Manu was good. But, after those three, it was another cast of older past their prime role players like Michael Finley, Bruce Bowen, Robert Horry, Jacque Vaughn, and Francisco Oberto.

I'm not saying Duncan's supporting casts were awful. The players knew their role and they played very well together as a team. However, I think people just think "Oh, well Duncan had Ginobili and Parker his entire career" and assume he always had great help.

[Odinn]

I agree people need to stop downplaying Shaq's longevity, but to say his longevity is > Kobe's is an attempt to undermine Kobe's longevity as well.

I think right now, as in today, their longevity is equal. But, if at 34 and 35, Kobe still performs at a level that warrants a spot on those years' Top 10 of the year list (which I think he will, probably 6-7 this year, and 8-10 in 2014), then Kobe's longevity will trump Shaq's, and it wouldn't be very comparable when considering he'd almost be 20 years deep in the NBA at that point. 19 years to be exact. That means, for 16-17 years straight, Kobe would have been a Top 10 player in the NBA.

16 - 17 years.
From his rookie season to 2005-06 season, Shaq gave 14 high quailty seasons to his teams.

2011-12 season Kobe's 14th season as a starter and his first 2 seasons as a starter weren't on his standards.

[Figlo]

easy it's duncan

[Faptastrophe]

Timothy Theodore Duncan!

http://cdn.wl.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/DuncanBirdman.gif

[DTreats]

http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o614/tillyho12/8df93412.png

[RRR3]

http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o614/tillyho12/8df93412.png
So you're saying Tim is better. :cheers:

[Odinn]

So you're saying Tim is better. :cheers:
And the exact same stan will claim Kobe > Duncan coz Kobe has 1 more ring.:roll: :roll:

[RRR3]

And the exact same stan will claim Kobe > Duncan coz Kobe has 1 more ring.:roll: :roll:
Duncan has more FMVPS though:pimp:

[DTreats]

So you're saying Tim is better. :cheers:
I'm just giving a great Pop quote, and I believe it rings true.

[RRR3]

I'm just giving a great Pop quote, and I believe it rings true.
Pop never said that, you just pulled it out of your ass, like you always do. :oldlol: :facepalm

[ImmortalD24]

Kobe Bryant

[Deuce Bigalow]

Duncan has more FMVPS though:pimp:
He got a Finals MVP averaging 20.6 ppg on 47.1 TS% ('05)

[pauk]

Tim Duncan is the right way to go, Kobe i will vote for at #9.

[RRR3]

He got a Finals MVP averaging 20.6 ppg on 47.1 TS% ('05)
Kobe stans "It's all about POINTZZZZZZZ DOEEEE"


I wouldn't go there either, Kobe got a FMVP averaging 41% FG and shooting 6-24 in game 7. :sleeping (Not saying he didn't deserve it, he did, just putting it out there)

[BlackVVaves]

This is ISH. Aren't you aware of what you've been around to read for a year now, with over 10,000 posts ?

Besides, what hurt Shaq's career was leaving for so many other teams after 2004. For what I know, it's got more to do with that... then playing at a high level for a long time.



I do think Kobe needs to win a MVP or Finals MVP (possibly both ?) to help strengthen that resume of longevity.

Do you feel the same ?

Agreed. In fact, for me, someone who respects the man a whole lot more than many of the posters on this site, I think it's more than a MVP or FMVP.

Kobe needs to find a way to be more efficient these next two years. Now, I'm not one of the people who think just because the man has an average of 45% from the field for his career, he should be considered inefficient. Some of the better shooters in NBA history have a FG% of or around 45%. And, considering the ridiculous level of difficulty Kobe (insists on) takes(ing), it's pretty impressive that his career FG% isn't something similar to Allen Iverson. But, it's that same insistence that Kobe has had for 17 years that he has to slowly erode as his career draws to a close. Another 42% FG shooting year is unexceptable, accolades or not, for both his own march along the Top 6-8 slots and his team's championship hopes. Yes, I recognize and acknowledge Kobe played with a ****ed up wrist all season, which is admirable. But 5 years from now, people won't care about his troubles or injuries, only results.

To me, in order for Kobe to indisputably surpass the likes of Shaq, Duncan, and Wilt in terms of All Time greatness, he needs to finish his career with one more ring, one more FMVP, and that particular season shoot 47% or better from the field. If he does that, then only the truest of anti-Kobe fanatics will be able to gather enough ignorance to argue he isn't Top 6 All Time.

Will he do that? That's another question. You brought up MVP, well that's certainly not happening. FMVP is very possible since, if he does win a ring, his performance offensively will likely grab the attention of the media more than Dwight defensively. And, if it's an efficient performance, or dominant performance, or a performance that I walk away saying "The Lakers wouldn't have won that series without Kobe," then I'm fine with him receiving FMVP. But, the key is efficiency. I'm looking for 47% or more in the season, and 45% or more in the playoffs.

We'll see if he can do it.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe stans "It's all about POINTZZZZZZZ DOEEEE"


I wouldn't go there either, Kobe got a FMVP averaging 41% FG and shooting 6-24 in game 7. :sleeping (Not saying he didn't deserve it, he did, just putting it out there)
28.6 ppg on 52.8 TS%

Fact is that Kobe get's a lot of shit for shooting pretty poorly at times in the Finals, but Duncan shot 47.1 TS% and 48.3 TS% in '05 and '07, half his Finals. And he's a big man :confusedshrug:

[KingBeasley08]

duncan

[Dictator]

Kobe stans "It's all about POINTZZZZZZZ DOEEEE"


I wouldn't go there either, Kobe got a FMVP averaging 41% FG and shooting 6-24 in game 7. :sleeping (Not saying he didn't deserve it, he did, just putting it out there)


:coleman:



28.6 ppg on 52.8 TS%

Fact is that Kobe get's a lot of shit for shooting pretty poorly at times in the Finals, but Duncan shot 47.1 TS% and 48.3 TS% in '05 and '07, half his Finals. And he's a big man :confusedshrug:

[DirtySanchez]

http://http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VTe7ew1dN7E/Tfyxc7G_b7I/AAAAAAAAATo/kB_RlhNjktM/s1600/kobe-bryant-0.jpg

Any questions???

[DirtySanchez]

Kobe!!!!!!!!

[1987_Lakers]

Duncan

[lilgodfather1]

Duncan/Kobe really unseperable to me, but I guess Duncan if I have a gun to my head because you always go big man first.

[christian1923]

Kobe

[ImmortalD24]

28.6 ppg on 52.8 TS%
Just so you know, someone just negged me and signed your name with it.


Get off of my thread- Deuce Bigalow

[Deuce Bigalow]

Just so you know, someone just negged me and signed your name with it.
:oldlol:
Here's a neg I got, signed with griff's name

i'm the best kobe fan here. **** off. kennethgriffin

[Kews1]

Duncan

[Odinn]

28.6 ppg on 52.8 TS%

Fact is that Kobe get's a lot of shit for shooting pretty poorly at times in the Finals, but Duncan shot 47.1 TS% and 48.3 TS% in '05 and '07, half his Finals. And he's a big man :confusedshrug:
Duncan in NBA Finals;
22 games, 22.7 ppg 14.4 rpg 3.4 apg 3.0 bpg 0.9 spg .472 fg .699 ft .525 ts 18.1 fga 14.4 fta
I think he can be judged for being a bad Finals performer for the last 2 games of 2007 Finals. If we exclude them;
20 games, 23.7 ppg 14.7 rpg 3.4 apg 3.2 bpg 0.8 spg .486 fg .713 ft .540 ts 18.3 fga 14.7 fta

Kobe in NBA Finals;
37 games, 25.3 ppg 5.7 rpg 5.1 apg 1.8 spg 0.9 bpg .412 fg .848 ft .507 ts 21.8 fga 7.1 fta
Kobe wasn't in his prime in 2000 Finals. If we exclude them;
32 games, 26.8 ppg 2.9 rpg 5.2 apg 1.9 spg 0.8 bpg .418 fg .845 ft .518 ts
22.4 fga 7.9 fta


So?...

[crisoner]

Duncan in NBA Finals;
22 games, 22.7 ppg 14.4 rpg 3.4 apg 3.0 bpg 0.9 spg .472 fg .699 ft .525 ts 18.1 fga 14.4 fta
I think he can be judged for being a bad Finals performer for the last 2 games of 2007 Finals. If we exclude them;
20 games, 23.7 ppg 14.7 rpg 3.4 apg 3.2 bpg 0.8 spg .486 fg .713 ft .540 ts 18.3 fga 14.7 fta

Kobe in NBA Finals;
37 games, 25.3 ppg 5.7 rpg 5.1 apg 1.8 spg 0.9 bpg .412 fg .848 ft .507 ts 21.8 fga 7.1 fta
Kobe wasn't in his prime in 2000 Finals. If we exclude them;
32 games, 26.8 ppg 2.9 rpg 5.2 apg 1.9 spg 0.8 bpg .418 fg .845 ft .518 ts
22.4 fga 7.9 fta


So?...

Get the numbers head to head Spurs vs. Lakers in playoffs.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Duncan in NBA Finals;
22 games, 22.7 ppg 14.4 rpg 3.4 apg 3.0 bpg 0.9 spg .472 fg .699 ft .525 ts 18.1 fga 14.4 fta
I think he can be judged for being a bad Finals performer for the last 2 games of 2007 Finals. If we exclude them;
20 games, 23.7 ppg 14.7 rpg 3.4 apg 3.2 bpg 0.8 spg .486 fg .713 ft .540 ts 18.3 fga 14.7 fta

Kobe in NBA Finals;
37 games, 25.3 ppg 5.7 rpg 5.1 apg 1.8 spg 0.9 bpg .412 fg .848 ft .507 ts 21.8 fga 7.1 fta
Kobe wasn't in his prime in 2000 Finals. If we exclude them;
32 games, 26.8 ppg 2.9 rpg 5.2 apg 1.9 spg 0.8 bpg .418 fg .845 ft .518 ts
22.4 fga 7.9 fta


So?...
it's probably 6 rpg

[RRR3]

Kobe!!!!!!!!
You already voted on your crisoner account. OP, don't count this.

[MAC system]

its tough for me. the three obvious candidates are close. i think ill go with timmy d because how well he anchored that defense

[lakerspng]

Kobe. Should have been higher but 8 has always been a good number for him, so why not.

[crisoner]

2001:

Lakers sweep

Kobe ave- 33ppg,7rpg, 7apg,

Duncan- 23ppg, 12rpg, 4apg,

2002:

Lakers win 4-1

Kobe-26ppg, 5.4rpg, 5apg,

Duncan- 28ppg, 17rpg, 4.8apg,

2003:

Spurs win 4-2

Kobe- 32ppg, 5rpg, 4apg,

Duncan- 28ppg, 12rpg, 4.8apg,

2004:

Lakers win in 6

Kobe- 26ppg, 6.3rpg, 6apg,

Duncan- 20ppg, 12rpg, 3apg,

2008:

Lakers win in 5

Kobe- 29ppg, 6rpg, 4apg,

Duncan: 22ppg, 17rpg, 4apg,

Kobe got it!

[crisoner]

You already voted on your crisoner account. OP, don't count this.

Damn you!!! lol

[RRR3]

Damn you!!! lol
:D:cheers:

[BlackVVaves]

From his rookie season to 2005-06 season, Shaq gave 14 high quailty seasons to his teams.

2011-12 season Kobe's 14th season as a starter and his first 2 seasons as a starter weren't on his standards.

Firstly, I stated Kobe would be almost 20 years deep in the NBA. I then highlighted the amount of years, out of those years, that he will have spent as a Top 10 player in the NBA, which was 16-17. So, not sure what part of my post wasn't clear?

Second, those two first years as a starter you are referring to, 1998-1999 and 1999-2000, Kobe averaged 22, 6, and 5 on 47% FG shooting. You are right, nothing close to his standards as a scorer, but still Top 12 in scoring in the league those years. And on better efficiency than any guard before him in each year's scoring list.

So yea. Kobe wasn't Kobe yet. But he was still better than "average" or good.

EDIT: Not sure why I typed 16-17 years as a Top 10 player. That's wrong, it would be 14-15 seasons.

[Odinn]

it's probably 6 rpg
Yeap. I just typed wrong. It should have been 5.9.

[bballnoob1192]

Kobe

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Kobe

[crisoner]

In case anyone missed it...

Kobe vs. Duncan head to head in playoffs.


2001:

Lakers sweep

Kobe ave- 33ppg,7rpg, 7apg,

Duncan- 23ppg, 12rpg, 4apg,

2002:

Lakers win 4-1

Kobe-26ppg, 5.4rpg, 5apg,

Duncan- 28ppg, 17rpg, 4.8apg,

2003:

Spurs win 4-2

Kobe- 32ppg, 5rpg, 4apg,

Duncan- 28ppg, 12rpg, 4.8apg,

2004:

Lakers win in 6

Kobe- 26ppg, 6.3rpg, 6apg,

Duncan- 20ppg, 12rpg, 3apg,

2008:

Lakers win in 5

Kobe- 29ppg, 6rpg, 4apg,

Duncan: 22ppg, 17rpg, 4apg,

[Odinn]

Kobe got it!
Why didn't you make bold Duncan's ppg in 2002 series?
You leave out 1999 series because Kobe wasn't in his prime and listed 2008 while it was Duncan's -arguably- last season in his prime. IMO, he was still top 5 player in the L but he was not in his prime any more.
Obvious agenda is obvious.



As for Lakers-Spurs series;
1999 - Duncan (Spurs won the series because they were the better team.)
2001 - Kobe (Lakers won the series because they were the better team. Also D. Anderson should be Kobe's main matchup but he was injured. Kobe went up against old perimeter players.)
2002 - Duncan (Lakers won the series because they were the better team.)
2003 - Duncan (What Duncan did was exceptional.)
2004 - Almost a tie, slightly Kobe coz he won the round. (Lakers won the series because they were the better team.)
2008 - Kobe (Lakers won the series because they were the better team.)

Duncan dominated 2003 Spurs-Lakers series like Kobe dominated in 2008. But Duncan won with the worse team.

As for Kobe dominating 2001 WCF;

D. Ferry; Age:34 - MPG:25.5
T. Porter; Age:37 - MPG:24.5
A. Johnson; Age:35 - MPG:22.3
S. Elliot; Age:32 - MPG:19.0

Also Derek Anderson (starting sg and only 15+ ppg Spur along side Duncan) was injured. He played 41 minutes for entire series. Kobe did 45/10 against D. Ferry, T. Porter and A. Johnson. You can see their ages above.

PS: Just to be clear; Kobe was a monster in that series. He dominated. But claiming a prime Spurs? That's just wrong.

Kobe faced the Spurs 4 times in his prime but only in 2004 Duncan was on the favourite team. That was coz of the hype that the Spurs got in regular season. The Spurs were not better than the Lakers in 2004.

[raprap]

Kobe Bryant

[StateOfMind12]

Hakeem Olajuwon, the Dream.

[BrickingStar]

Duncan

[TheBigVeto]

Duncan.
There is no way Kobe is above Duncan except in chucking and bricking.

[joeyjoejoe]

Please click one of the duncan

[Snoop_Cat]

Tim Duncan.

[LikeABosh]

Timmy D

[Lebron23]

Tim Duncan

[cBeck]

Duncan

[FreezingTsmoove]

Kobe

[miles berg]

Hakeem Olajuwon

[LBJMVP]

kobe

[NauruDude]

Erick Dampier

[crisoner]

Kobe BEAN Bryant vs Timmy!!!

More info...


Quick facts: in his prime kobe averaged 32ppg, 9rpg, and 6apg per game verse the spurs

Kobe has more rings than duncan

(prime) Kobe is a better scorer, as well as a better passer, shooter, playmaker, clutch, than prime duncan...


Kobe overall numbers:
In 40145 minutes minutes..

27868 points
5829 rebounds
5154 assist
1653 steals
576 blocks

Tim Duncans overall numbers:
In 37733 minutes...

21663 points
12013 rebounds
3296 assist
784 steals
2381 blocks

Now take their career averages:
Kobe- 25.3ppg, 5.3rpg, 5apg, 1.5spg,.5bpg, 45% FG
Duncan-20ppg,11rpg,3apg,0.7spg,2bpg, ,50% FG

Playoff averages:

Kobe-25ppg, 5rpg,5apg
Duncan-22ppg, 12rpg,3apg
Kobe- 7 finals, 5 rings, 1mvp, 2 finals MVP, 2 scoring titles, 9 time all defensive first team, 9 time all nba first team, 14 time allstar

Duncan- 4 finals, 4 rings, 2 MVP, 3 finals MVP, 8 time all defensive first team, 9 time all nba 1st team, 13 time allstar

[no pun intended]

Hakeem Olajuwon.

[crisoner]

Head to Head Kobe has the better numbers...

More titles...

Wins over Duncan's Spurs...

Won back to back something a Duncan Spur team has never done...

It's Kobe...

[Noof]

Kobe

[raid09]

Duncan

[Asukal]

Hakeem. :cheers:

[Overdrive]

Kobe, imo he's tied to Shaq.

[Zedja]

Kobe.

[Alan Ogg]

Timmy

[coin24]

Kobe:cheers:

[Duncan21formvp]

Tim Duncan

[BlackVVaves]

Can we get an update on the voting tally?

[Heavincent]

Can we get an update on the voting tally?

Kobe is at like 37 and Duncan is somewhere around 31. Didn't feel like counting Hakeem's votes.

By the way OP, how does this voting work? Is it the first player to get to a certain number of votes?

[DatAsh]

Don't think I've voted for this one, but I guess just don't count this vote if I have.

Hakeem

[Punpun]

This is clearly biased now. Other thread already were "closed" by that point.

[Reggie43]

Duncan

[dynasty1978]

Kobe Bryant

[PyrrhusX]

Timmy D.

[Gifted Mind]

Already don't like a few things about this list, and feel like the obvious selection here won't be made.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Can we get an update on the voting tally?
OK, hold on...

[atljonesbro]

Kobe

[maybeshewill13]

Hakeem. LMFAO at anyone mentioning Kobe before the dream and Timmy.

[Heavincent]

Hakeem. LMFAO at anyone mentioning Kobe before the dream and Timmy.

Don't be an idiot.

[BlackVVaves]

Hakeem. LMFAO at anyone mentioning Kobe before the dream and Timmy.

Posters like you need to relax. I voted for Duncan myself, but stop pretending as if Kobe has no case at all over both Hakeem and Duncan. It is as foolish as thinking Duncan or Hakeem have no case at all over Kobe.

[YAWN]

Kobe...

kobe - 5 rings, 2 finals mvps, 1 mvp, 14x all star, 14x all nba, 12x all d, 2x scoring champ
shaq - 4 rings, 3 finals mvps, 1 mvp, 15x all star, 14x all nba, 3x all d, 2x scoring champ

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe is at like 37 and Duncan is somewhere around 31. Didn't feel like counting Hakeem's votes.

By the way OP, how does this voting work? Is it the first player to get to a certain number of votes?
There's only 2 rules: need 100 posts to vote, and no troll votes (like Scalabrine for example)

Voting ends when it's not even close, or after a while. InsideHoops posters decides when it's over :D

[ukplayer4]

duncan.




rofl at people listing kobes 1st team defensive selections like he had the same impact defensively. the last 3 selections for kobe were more than a joke. literally everyone was falling about the place laughing every time they picked him last 3 times. it became hilarious. then there was the year he had his 35ppg and publicly stated he wasnt even playing d to conserve energy to carry the terrible laker team offensively and they still picked him. even kobe thought he didnt deserve it that year....

[ShaqAttack3234]

Hakeem. The results are significantly off anyway, imo, but Hakeem dropping any lower would be a travesty. How many people on this board know how good Dream was in his prime?

Edit: Too late :facepalm: I didn't read the other pages or bother to look that this went 12 pages. Either way, I have to stick up for Hakeem.

Magic at 4 is REALLY pushing it too, imo. I'm in the minority there. Not that he wasn't great, but I really think he's ranked higher than he should be based on the whole "saving the NBA" thing. Also, the fact that he ended up with more rings than Bird is why he ends up above him on a lot of lists. Not for being a better player. Even though Magic got 2 of his rings as the "sidekick"....funny how some hold that against Kobe, but not Magic. And Magic's 3rd ring was really a 1.A/1.B type thing with Kareem still as the 1st option, but best player being debatable. He has 5 overall, and 2 as the clear "man", just like Kobe. Funny double standard. Only difference is that Magic has a 3rd where he was arguably the best player, though still not the "man" on his team by definition as Kareem was still the first option through the '85-'86 season.

[Lordragoonx1x]

WTF how the hell does wilt not belong in the top 5? I don't agree with the top 5 ranking but what ever. But as for the question at hand Duncan is #8.

[BlackVVaves]

That's way too vague Deuce. Should be a cap on overall votes, individual player votes, or time constraint. But, if that's how you have been doing it all along, consistency is more important than all those things.

[RRR3]

Kobe...

kobe - 5 rings, 2 finals mvps, 1 mvp, 14x all star, 14x all nba, 12x all d, 2x scoring champ
shaq - 4 rings, 3 finals mvps, 1 mvp, 15x all star, 14x all nba, 3x all d, 2x scoring champ
LOL @ trying to insinuate Kobe is some legendary defender. A lot of those awards were a joke

[Deuce Bigalow]

That's way too vague Deuce. Should be a cap on overall votes, individual player votes, or time constraint. But, if that's how you have been doing it all along, consistency is more important than all those things.
Why put a limit on it? That's how I feel. If people are still voting just let it go if it's close. Unless if it's not even close of course it's obvious when to move on.

[Vertical-24]

Kobe Bryant.

[General]

LOL @ trying to insinuate Kobe is some legendary defender. A lot of those awards were a joke
Sure they are:rolleyes: Did you see young Kobe's lockdown defense? I guess you know more than NBA coaches who vote for the award.

[Chamberlain]

Tim Duncan.

[General]

I vote for Kobe because him dropping further down would be a travesty. He's supposed to be 7th above Shaq and Duncan.

[RRR3]

I vote for Kobe because him dropping further down would be a travesty. He's supposed to be 7th above Shaq and Duncan.
"Supposed to be"? :oldlol: LOL according to what? Your personal belief? This is a ****ing arbitrary list, chill out

[AlonzoGOAT]

Duncan

[ShaqAttack3234]

LOL @ trying to insinuate Kobe is some legendary defender. A lot of those awards were a joke

Well, the most important thing is that comparing all-nba and all-defensive selections between guards and forwards to centers is completely unfair for an obvious reason.

There are 2 spots available on the teams for guards and forwards, but just 1 available for centers. Because of that, being on the 2nd team for a center is the equivalent of being on the 1st team for a guard.

I think people just don't stop and think about it. It's not a criticism unless once this is pointed out, people choose to ignore it. That shows a clear bias, if that happens.

But moving on, the all-defensive first team selection Kobe got in '00 is the one I'm confident he deserved. He deserved the all-defensive second teams he received in '01 and '02, but I'm not sure why(other than stats), he jumped up to first team in '03 and especially '04 when his defense wasn't as good as '01 and '02 when he was only second team.

Kobe has deserved some of his all-defensive selections, but making 1st team in '07 and '11 were jokes. At least he was dropped to second team this season, although I will sort of look beyond the fact that Kobe clearly wasn't one of the 4 best defensive guards this year because all-defensive selections have often unfairly favored stars. Many stars aren't top 2 or top 5

[maybeshewill13]

Don't be an idiot.

Truth hurts brother..

[General]

"Supposed to be"? :oldlol: LOL according to what? Your personal belief? This is a ****ing arbitrary list, chill out
I'm just sharing my opinion:confusedshrug:

[tommy3]

kobe

[scandisk_]

http://www.exgeeinteractive.com/dump/kobe-8.jpg

:pimp:

[Heavincent]

Truth hurts brother..

C'mon, acting like Kobe doesn't have a legit case over Hakeem and Duncan is asinine and you know it.

[KG215]

There's no position restrictions, right? Like, can't you technically have two centers or three forwards, or five guards on either All-Defense team? Or am I wrong here?

[Deuce Bigalow]

There's no position restrictions, right? Like, can't you technically have two centers or three forwards, or five guards on either All-Defense team? Or am I wrong here?
There is a restriction.
1 Center
2 Forwards
2 Guards

[Colbertnation64]

kobe

[Colbertnation64]

lol forget i need 100 posts for this to count so...

[TerranOP]

Kobe

[Deuce Bigalow]

lol forget i need 100 posts for this to count so...
1 more post :D

[Colbertnation64]

kobe

[Asiantastic]

Kobe

[sagr32]

Kobe

[Freedom Kid7]

Kobe at 8.
Oh that's some interesting stuff considering he wore #8 forever :lol
I still have Duncan above Kobe for a lot of reasons, but I can see an argument for Kobe over Duncan. Not mad and certainly won't go on a rage spree

[Deuce Bigalow]

#8 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops Voting

53- Kobe Bryant
45- Tim Duncan
25- Hakeem Olajuwon
1- Moses Malone

[KG215]

I think there is some credence to some of these spots where the voting is a bit skewed due to the number of Kobe stans, but I don't have a problem with Kobe at #8. I don't have a problem with any order of Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, and Hakeem in the 7-10 spots.

Anyway, I don't think I've voted yet: Tim Duncan.

[Asukal]

You should end this. Kobe takes this one no question.

[KG215]

current results

47- Kobe Bryant
34- Tim Duncan
23- Hakeem Olajuwon
1- Moses Malone

105 votes so far :applause:

Not trying to step on your toes, but I started tallying the votes earlier (got through page 8), mainly to kill some time when I had a two hour break between classes late this afternoon. Went ahead and finished, and I've got Duncan with 40 and Kobe with 47. I wasn't paying real close attention to number of posts by voters, though.

[BrickingStar]

current results

47- Kobe Bryant
34- Tim Duncan
23- Hakeem Olajuwon
1- Moses Malone

105 votes so far :applause:
Can you just put the limit at 40? Kobe wins I agree with others to put a limit for consistency

[Deuce Bigalow]

Not trying to step on your toes, but I started tallying the votes earlier (got through page 8), mainly to kill some time when I had a two hour break between classes late this afternoon. Went ahead and finished, and I've got Duncan with 40 and Kobe at 47. I wasn't paying real close attention to number of posts by voters, though.
I'll re-count it just to make sure :cheers:. Yeah, you probably counted some posters with under 100 posts.

[DatAsh]

Hakeem. The results are significantly off anyway, imo, but Hakeem dropping any lower would be a travesty. How many people on this board know how good Dream was in his prime?

Edit: Too late :facepalm: I didn't read the other pages or bother to look that this went 12 pages. Either way, I have to stick up for Hakeem.

Magic at 4 is REALLY pushing it too, imo. I'm in the minority there. Not that he wasn't great, but I really think he's ranked higher than he should be based on the whole "saving the NBA" thing. Also, the fact that he ended up with more rings than Bird is why he ends up above him on a lot of lists. Not for being a better player. Even though Magic got 2 of his rings as the "sidekick"....funny how some hold that against Kobe, but not Magic. And Magic's 3rd ring was really a 1.A/1.B type thing with Kareem still as the 1st option, but best player being debatable. He has 5 overall, and 2 as the clear "man", just like Kobe. Funny double standard. Only difference is that Magic has a 3rd where he was arguably the best player, though still not the "man" on his team by definition as Kareem was still the first option through the '85-'86 season.

Have to agree with most of this. To me, and it looks as though I'm in the minority, Hakeem and Shaq are neck and neck, and probably the 7th/8th best players ever. I have no idea why Hakeem gets so disrespected and or forgotten around here. Part of me thinks that we just have a lot of young folks on this board who never saw him play and assume he's just an inferior version of Tim Duncan, or something along those lines. Part of me thinks that Jlauber's constant bashing of Olajuwon is starting to take it's toll, though I hope that's not the case.

As someone who's seen both Hakeem and Duncan's entire careers, I've always found it a bit odd that people can, and often do, rate Tim Duncan above Hakeem Olajuwon. When you look at the supporting casts that each of those players had over the course of their careers, it should be fairly obvious that team success would be a poor metric for determining the better of the two. When you break down the individual skill sets: scoring(post, outside, at rim), playmaking(breaking down a defense, passing), ball-handling, rebounding, defense(inside, outside, pick and roll), I'm not sure how Duncan comes out on top.

I somewhat disagree with you about Magic Johnson. I'm one of those guys that thinks that he's just one of those players who's impact goes well beyond the stats(ala Bill Russell). There was just something about watching him, night in and night out, that felt truly special, far beyond what the stat's were suggesting. Even during the 92 Olympics, when he was past prime and amongst several players better than himself, I couldn't help but think that he was perhaps the most "important" player on the team. There was just something about his game and his abbility to run and offense, that didn't really show up in the stats, but lent itself perfectly to the team's overall success. I rank Magic anywhere from 4-6.

[Asukal]

Have to agree with most of this. To me, and it looks as though I'm in the minority, Hakeem and Shaq are neck and neck, and probably the 7th/8th best players ever. I have no idea why Hakeem gets so disrespected and or forgotten around here. Part of me thinks that we just have a lot of young folks on this board who never saw him play and assume he's just an inferior version of Tim Duncan, or something along those lines. Part of me thinks that Jlauber's constant bashing of Olajuwon is starting to take it's toll, though I hope that's not the case.

As someone who's seen both Hakeem and Duncan's entire careers, I've always found it a bit odd that people can, and often do, rate Tim Duncan above Hakeem Olajuwon. When you look at the supporting casts that each of those players had over the course of their careers, it should be fairly obvious that team success would be a poor metric for determining the better of the two. When you break down the individual skill sets: scoring(post, outside, at rim), playmaking(breaking down a defense, passing), ball-handling, rebounding, defense(inside, outside, pick and roll), I'm not sure how Duncan comes out on top.

I somewhat disagree with you about Magic Johnson. I'm one of those guys that thinks that he's just one of those players who's impact goes well beyond the stats(ala Bill Russell). There was just something about watching him, night in and night out, that felt truly special, far beyond what the stat's were suggesting. Even during the 92 Olympics, when he was past prime and amongst several players better than himself, I couldn't help but think that he was perhaps the most "important" player on the team. There was just something about his game and his abbility to run and offense, that didn't really show up in the stats, but lent itself perfectly to the team's overall success. I rank Magic anywhere from 4-6.

I agree, Hakeem is better than Timmy.

When it comes to Magic, he and Kobe are close when it comes to accomplishments. What sets them apart, is their play and the era they competed against. Magic faced greater teams than Kobe. Magic is also the GOAT PG.

[Legends66NBA7]

LOL @ trying to insinuate Kobe is some legendary defender. A lot of those awards were a joke

I ain't going to call you out dude, but you put yourself out like that, you better come back it up.

[RRR3]

I ain't going to call you out dude, but you put yourself out like that, you better come back it up.
I'm referring to his recent awards. Most people consider those a joke. I know I do. I haven't noticed Kobe's defense much at all since I started paying closer attention to the NBA. BTW Phil Jackson (in 2004, mind you) wrote that Kobe didn't deserve his all-d awards.

[thelucifer69]

Tim Duncan

[Legends66NBA7]

Looking over the other stuff, but this one:


BTW Phil Jackson (in 2004, mind you) wrote that Kobe didn't deserve his all-d awards.

Link ? I want to read that.

Wouldn't make sense to me. Those were some damn good defensive years by Kobe and Phil said that ?

And if so, who did he think "deserved" it ?

I also would like to know who else has to get all-defensive teams an *... I just feel weird saying it, since it doesn't make sense to change history.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'm referring to his recent awards. Most people consider those a joke. I know I do. I haven't noticed Kobe's defense much at all since I started paying closer attention to the NBA. BTW Phil Jackson (in 2004, mind you) wrote that Kobe didn't deserve his all-d awards.
Phil Jackson also said lockout rings deserve an asterisk :oldlol:

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

Look at this guy trying to pretend like he's some Wilt historian.

Are you trying to say Kobe doesn't belong in the conversation?

Titles: Kobe 5, Hakeem 2, Duncan 4
Finals MVPs: Kobe 2, Hakeem 2, Duncan 3
MVPs: Kobe 1, Hakeem 1, Duncan 2
All-NBA Teams: Kobe 14, Hakeem 12, Duncan 13
All-Star Teams: Kobe 14, Hakeem 12, Duncan 13
DPOYs: Kobe 0, Hakeem 2, Duncan 0
Scoring Titles: Kobe 2, Hakeem 0, Duncan 0


Kobe has finished Top 5 in MVP voting 10 times

1st: 2008.
2nd: 2009.
3rd: 2003, 2007, 2010.
4th: 2006, 2011, 2012.
5th: 2002, 2004

Hakeem has finished Top 5 in MVP voting 6 times

1st: 1994
2nd: 1993
3rd:
4th: 1986, 1996
5th: 1989, 1995

Duncan has finished Top 5 in MVP voting 9 times

1st: 2002, 2003
2nd: 2001, 2004
3rd: 1999
4th: 2005, 2007
5th: 1998, 2000

You include scoring titles but don't include rebounding titles. And let's not even talk about defensive impact. Do you really think just listing DPOYS is an accurate comparison? It's not even remotely close on the defensive end of the floor.

You can throw as many popularity and team accomplishment awards around as you want.

[RRR3]

Phil Jackson also said lockout rings deserve an asterisk :oldlol:
I thought you believed that? :confusedshrug: He clearly said that because he was butthurt the Spurs won IMO

[riseagainst]

I thought you believed that? :confusedshrug: He clearly said that because he was butthurt the Spurs won IMO

he also said Kobe is more skilled than MJ. Guess that must be true too. but wait, he must have said that because Kobe was playing for him at the time and he didn't want to ruin their relationship, right? :confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

he also said Kobe is more skilled than MJ. Guess that must be true too. but wait, he must have said that because Kobe was playing for him at the time and he didn't want to ruin their relationship, right? :confusedshrug:
Kobe is more skilled than a lot of people who are still better than him as individual players (i.e. Shaq, LBJ)

[Deuce Bigalow]

KG215, Duncan had 35 votes at that point in which posters had atleast 100 posts (I originally counted 34).

[riseagainst]

Kobe is more skilled than a lot of people who are still better than him as individual players (i.e. Shaq, LBJ)

but do you actually agree with Phil about that comment in 2004 about Kobe not deserving his 1st D's? Those were Kobe's best defensive years imo.

[EnoughSaid]

Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon! :bowdown:

[AK47DR91]

Tim Duncan

[Legends66NBA7]

He clearly said that because he was butthurt the Spurs won IMO

And vice versa, you should use some logic here.

Phil and Kobe pre 2004 and around the 04-05 circa did not get along well with each other. Phil wanted Kobe off the team because of chemistry problems. Later years, players like Robert Horry said Phil was the guy who started the main feuds with Kobe and Shaq. Derek Fisher I think agreed with Horry too (not too sure about that one though).

They do have a better relationship now, obviously, but using that same logic, Phil was butthurt about Kobe's All-D selections because Kobe was a dick ? :confusedshrug:

Phil's words can be taken with a grain of salt at times. Dude was known for being a con to his ex-coaches and even Shaq and Kobe called him out for his tricks.

I'm still waiting for that link, if you have one.

[RRR3]

but do you actually agree with Phil about that comment in 2004 about Kobe not deserving his 1st D's? Those were Kobe's best defensive years imo.
I don't agree or disagree with it, at the time I only followed T-Mac and the Magic LOL. I was just throwing it out there in support of my point that Kobe's defense gets overrated, although I'm referring to recent years when I say that, I was pointing out his coach thought the same a while back.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Have to agree with most of this. To me, and it looks as though I'm in the minority, Hakeem and Shaq are neck and neck, and probably the 7th/8th best players ever. I have no idea why Hakeem gets so disrespected and or forgotten around here. Part of me thinks that we just have a lot of young folks on this board who never saw him play and assume he's just an inferior version of Tim Duncan, or something along those lines. Part of me thinks that Jlauber's constant bashing of Olajuwon is starting to take it's toll, though I hope that's not the case.

I'm not sure how much influence JLauber's posts on Hakeem have had. I tried to counter them in the past because I truly think a different perspective needs to be out there on Hakeem. Plus, while I do think JLauber is a nice guy, I believe his posts on Hakeem are ignorant and I've seen a number of statements by him about Hakeem that I know to be flat wrong.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time or energy lately to bother responding much.


As someone who's seen both Hakeem and Duncan's entire careers, I've always found it a bit odd that people can, and often do, rate Tim Duncan above Hakeem Olajuwon. When you look at the supporting casts that each of those players had over the course of their careers, it should be fairly obvious that team success would be a poor metric for determining the better of the two. When you break down the individual skill sets: scoring(post, outside, at rim), playmaking(breaking down a defense, passing), ball-handling, rebounding, defense(inside, outside, pick and roll), I'm not sure how Duncan comes out on top.

Yeah, Hakeem is the least fortunate top 10 player as far as team success. He had a promising team to start his career playing with Sampson, but after he led Houston to the finals in just his second year, Sampson fell apart and Olajuwon clearly did not have a championship-caliber team from ages 24-29. No other top 10 player had to deal with that,

Duncan had consistently good teams that could contend throughout his career, that's not a criticism, most top 10 players did, just not Hakeem. Duncan shouldn't be penalized for having more consistent help because he won more, but it's a point that should be brought up if someone chooses Duncan over Hakeem because of rings.

But to me, Hakeem vs Duncan is clear. Many would take Hakeem over Duncan defensively, and Hakeem was unquestionably the superior offensive player. Duncan was the better defender as a young player than Hakeem was since Hakeem was very undisciplined as a young player and not the best post defender erarly, while Duncan was always disciplined. But prime vs prime(which is how I judge players), I'd probably go with Hakeem defensively. While I judge players by their primes, it's worth noting for those don't that Hakeem's longevity was superior to Duncan's.


I somewhat disagree with you about Magic Johnson. I'm one of those guys that thinks that he's just one of those players who's impact goes well beyond the stats(ala Bill Russell). There was just something about watching him, night in and night out, that felt truly special, far beyond what the stat's were suggesting. Even during the 92 Olympics, when he was past prime and amongst several players better than himself, I couldn't help but think that he was perhaps the most "important" player on the team. There was just something about his game and his abbility to run and offense, that didn't really show up in the stats, but lent itself perfectly to the team's overall success. I rank Magic anywhere from 4-6.

I think that most of the all-time great players impacts went well beyond stats. Magic included of course, though, his stats during his prime were pretty amazing such as 24/6/12.

I have Magic 6th, and don't get me wrong, he was great. With the addition of the outside shot in '84 and the post game in '87 along with the scoring mentality he acquired in '87(which didn't hurt his playmaking one bit), he could control a game so much offensively from '87-'90or '91 for that matter. That's because he could now get a shot whenever he wanted or drawa double team in the half court when he'd pick apart the doubles or run the famous fastbreak.

I saw a clear progression with Magic. He was great from the start, but didn't truly play at a top 10 level until the '86-'87, imo. From '80-'83, his game depended too much on transition opportunities, imo with the lack of an outside shot or a post game. The addition of the outside shot and finally a post game were huge.

I use to be more influenced by the fact that Bird was better, imo each of their first 7 seasons from '80-'86, but to be consistent in judging each player by their primes,I admit it's debatable because the 2 years their primes did overlap('87 and '88), both players had a case. And I think that '84 or '85'88 Bird and '87-'90 or '91 Magic had pretty comparable impact.

[RRR3]

And vice versa, you should use some logic here.

Phil and Kobe pre 2004 and around the 04-05 circa did not get along well with each other. Phil wanted Kobe off the team because of chemistry problems. Later years, players like Robert Horry said Phil was the guy who started the main feuds with Kobe and Shaq. Derek Fisher I think agreed with Horry too (not too sure about that one though).

They do have a better relationship now, obviously, but using that same logic, Phil was butthurt about Kobe's All-D selections because Kobe was a dick ? :confusedshrug:

Phil's words can be taken with a grain of salt at times. Dude was known for being a con to his ex-coaches and even Shaq and Kobe called him out for his tricks.

I'm still waiting for that link, if you have one.

Read The Last Season by Phil please. Phil may have been mad at Kobe at the time, but he does ANYTHING but discredit Kobe as a player. He gives him the utmost respect and praise in the book, while also pointing out his flaws (mostly in terms of team chemistry) of course.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

You could give Kobe Bryant 1st All D's for every single year of his career and he still wouldn't be anywhere near Hakeem Olajuwon and Tim Duncan defensively.

The way people rank players is such a joke.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You should end this. Kobe takes this one no question.
Is that a vote for Kobe?

[raprap]

I have nothing against Tim, great player and the best pf in history. but Kobe takes this one. Popularity will always be a factor even if others will overlook it and use accomplishments as the backbone of a argument. Btw don't count this OP, I have already voted for Kobe.

[SpecialQue]

Kobe.

[RRR3]

Kobe.
Bean.

[Legends66NBA7]

Phil may have been mad at Kobe at the time, but he does ANYTHING but discredit Kobe as a player. He gives him the utmost respect and praise in the book, while also pointing out his flaws (mostly in terms of team chemistry) of course.

So what's up with him saying Kobe didn't deserve those All-Defensive teams ?

Anyways, I'll take your word on it and read the book again... haven't read it a while, if I can ever find it again. Some where under a huge pile of books I have.

[RRR3]

So what's up with him saying Kobe didn't deserve those All-Defensive teams ?

Anyways, I'll take your word on it and read the book again... haven't read it a while, if I can ever find it again. Some where under huge pile of books I have.
It was in reference to Kobe gambling on defense in some game IIRC. Think the quote was something like "voters have been seduced in recent years by Kobe's flashy steals and amazing athleticism and don't notice how he leaves his man too frequently"...something to that extent. He didn't say anything like "LOL Kobe is a scrub on D"

[magnax1]

Hakeem is the pretty clear choice to me. He doesn't really lack anything in his game. His biggest flaw is probably that he was too ball dominant and wasn't effective when he had to share on offense, but still is better then Kobe and Duncan prime wise by a pretty clear margin. Kobe had the bigger offensive impact, and Duncan might have had as large or a larger impact on D, but neither were as complete as Hakeem.

[Legends66NBA7]

It was in reference to Kobe gambling on defense in some game IIRC. Think the quote was something like "voters have been seduced in recent years by Kobe's flashy steals and amazing athleticism and don't notice how he leaves his man too frequently"...something to that extent. He didn't say anything like "LOL Kobe is a scrub on D"

Will have to read it again.

Tex Winter said something similar years ago too:

http://basketbawful.blogspot.ca/2007/03/tex-winter-agrees-with-basketbawful.html

And like Tex goes on to mention, Kobe's not the only guard to save himself for offense. Not saying it's right, but the more I read into it, the more I understand the term.

Off course, that's 2007 when he had to do much more on some bad teams. And yeah, Tex didn't say he was a bad defender either, just he needs to bring it more night in, night out, on both ends.

[KOBE143]

Kobe

If Kobe doesnt win it now, Im done with this.. Too many biased and haters here..

[STATmanLAKERFAN]

Tim Duncan

[fadeaway3]

Timmy D

[raptorfan_dr07]

In the words of Shaq: "The Big Fundamental" aka Tim Duncan.

[DaSeba5]

Duncan

[CarlosBoozer]

Kobe

[ganja0710]

Duncan

[talkingconch]

kobe bryant

The hate on this board will put Kobe to probably 10th sadly. He's either 7 or 8. 9 at the least.

[KG215]

Kobe

If Kobe doesnt win it now, Im done with this.. Too many biased and haters here..

Probably something like 1/3 of Kobe's votes have come from Kobe stans and Lakers fans, including you. Who cares who gets this spot? All three of Hakeem, Duncan, and Kobe have very good cases, as they did for #7.

And :roll: at acting like it's some huge travesty if Duncan beats him for this spot. Yet another Kobe stan acting like an immature kid because their favorite player isn't considered as good as he thinks they should.

[tpols]

Kobe Bryant

[DaSeba5]

kobe bryant

The hate on this board will put Kobe to probably 10th sadly. He's either 7 or 8. 9 at the least.

He is. Nobody has an agenda except the Laker fans/Kobe stans. We're voting fairly. I have Kobe at 9.

[Deuce Bigalow]

kobe bryant

The hate on this board will put Kobe to probably 10th sadly. He's either 7 or 8. 9 at the least.
Kobe is currently winning right now (51 to 41)

[BlueandGold]

Whatever I"ll go Kobe Bryant. Hakeem doesn't have enough hardware and they both have equal # of MVPs, Duncan hasn't defended and has had all-star backcourts his entire career (as well as a hall of fame frontcourt), Kobe also obviously has 1 up on Duncan as far as championships and 3 up on Hakeem. If the "well he just wins championships" line works for Russell (a celtic btw), i gotta believe that Kobe winning 5 in the modern (post Jordan) era has gotta mean something, especially with two completely different casts.

Also say what you want about the impact of big men, not many can consistently take the last shot at the end of games or hit clutch FTs to win/ice a game. The degree of difficulty factor should not be overlooked here, after all that's why jordan is the GOAT, because he in fact is not a big man. Think about if Jordan was a C and he had those same awards, then he would be competing with some of the greatest players of all time. The fact that Jordan revolutionized the game in winning a title(multiple titles) as a scoring champion AND without a dominant big man all while as a shooting guard speaks to the imagination, which is a main reason why I believe Kobe should also high up there on the all time list.

[KG215]

KG215, Duncan had 35 votes at that point in which posters had atleast 100 posts (I originally counted 34).

Was I that off? Or were there 5 or 6 posters who voted for Duncan who had less than 100 votes?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Was I that off? Or were there 5 or 6 posters who voted for Duncan who had less than 100 votes?
There were some under 100 post count posters. Forgot how many, but there were a couple.

[KG215]

Duncan hasn't defended and has had all-star backcourts his entire career (as well as a hall of fame frontcourt)

So much is wrong about this I don't know where to begin, or if I should even try.

He played, what, five seasons with Robinson? The two years they won a ring together, Robinson was far from prime/peak Robinson, and shell of himself in 2003. Yes, technically it was a HOF frontcourt, but Robinson wasn't the same player who won MVP in 1994-1995.

Duncan also won that first championship without either Manu or Parker. Their first championship as a "Big 3" was Manu's first season and Parker's second. (Ginobili was 25 and Parker was 20). Neither were All-Stars and both were far from being what they would become at their best.

Ginobili made his first of two All-Star teams in 2005 and was very good that year, but Parker was 22 and still climbing to his prime. He was good, but not at his best, yet. Not even sure 2004-2005 was part of his prime, but it might have been the start of it.

2007 was the only season Duncan had both Parker and Ginobili at or really close to their peak; and, in fact, Ginobili and Parker have never been All-Stars in the same season. Parker made the All-Star team in 2006, 2007, 2009, and 2012; and Ginobili in 2005 and 2011.

[jlauber]

I could not care less how these "contests" go, but no love for the "Kareem-Killer" Moses Malone?


How great was Moses Malone? The 6-10 center faced the 7-2 Kareem in 40 total games from the 76-77 season, thru Kareem's last season in 88-89.

Some here claim that Kareem's peak was in that 76-77 season, although I strongly believe that the most dominant Kareem played in the early 70's. His statistical peak came in the 70-71, 71-72, and 72-73 seasons.

Kareem was 29 in the 76-77 season, while Moses was 21. However, Moses jumped right to the ABA at age 19, so he was already in his third professional season by the time the two first met.

Now, granted, the two probably did not exclusively defend each other in every game, nor were they on the floor at the same time in portions of those games.

There are several interesting aspects to this "rivalry." I am only posting the known stats that I could find, and perhaps there are some here who can provide even more info. I did come up with every one of their scoring H2H's, all 40 of them. However, I could only find their FG%'s and rebounding numbers in their last 16 games.

And overall, Kareem team's went 21-19 against Moses, which was surprising, since Kareem played with much more talented teams in nearly all of their 13 seasons in the league together. In facr, Moses only played on ONE team that ever had a better record than Kareem, in those 13 seasons.

However, while Kareem's teams enjoyed 20-13 margin in their regular season H2H's, Moses' team went 6-1 against Kareem's in the post-season. BTW, Kareem's team's were often leveled in the post-season, despite having better regular season records. Included in those post-season H2H's, was the 80-81 Rockets, at 40-42, beating Kareem's 54-28 (Magic was injured and missed 37 games that season), 2-1 in the first round of the playoffs. And, of course, Moses' 82-83 Sixers, which went 65-17 swept Kareem's 58-24 Lakers, 4-0. That was the ONLY season in which Moses had a more talented roster, and they were clearly better, going a combined 6-0 against Kareem's team in the overall season. However, Kareem did miss one of their regular season H2H's that year, so Moses only went 5-0 against him that year.

How about their personal battles? While a much more prime Kareem, at age 29, outscored the 21 year old Moses in their first year H2H's, it was not a dramatic difference. Kareem outscored him in three of their four games, but his high game was only 29 points. And, by their fourth game that season, Moses outscored Kareem, 26-23.

Another interesting aspect was that while both players started declining somewhat after the 84-85 season, Moses' decline was sharper. Still. Moses generally outplayed Kareem even after that. But, Moses was not the dominant player that he was from the 78-79 season thru the 84-85 season.

And while Kareem won the MVP award in the 79-80 season, Moses was probably already the better player. In the 78-79 season, a 23 year old Moses exploded, and averaged 24.8 ppg, on .540 shooting, with an astonishing 17.6 rpg average (winning the rebounding title by nearly 5 per game.) Kareem averaged 23.8 ppg, 12.8 rpg, 5.4 apg, and shot .577. In Kareem's 79-80 MVP season, Abdul-Jabbar averaged 24.8 ppg, on a sensational .604 shooting, but was on a severe decline in the rebounding department, only getting 10.8 rpg. Meanwhile, Moses was at 25.8 ppg, .502 shooting, and grabbing 14.5 rpg. BUT, H2H in that Kareem MVP season, Moses DRAMATICALLY outscored Kareem, by an average margin of 30 ppg to 20 ppg. And, I have no doubt that he probably dominated Kareem on the glass, as well.

From that 79-80 season, on, Moses was CLEARLY the better player. While Kareem's numbers continued to decline, Moses jusr DOMINATED the league. From the 80-81 season thru the 84-85 season, Moses was THE best player in the league (sorry Larry and Magic, but Moses was UNSTOPPABLE.) He LED the league in rebounding EVERY season in those five years, and and scoring seasons as high as 27.8 ppg, and even 31.1 ppg.

And, the Kareem-Moses H2H's, from the 79-80 thru the 84-85 seasons reflected Moses COMPLETE DOMINATION of Kareem, as well.

After that, both declined, and while Moses generally outplayed Kareem, neither were putting up spectacular numbers.

In any case, in their 40 H2H games, Moses held a staggering 25-12-3 margin in their scoring battles. Not only that, but in their 7 playoff games, Moses enjoyed a solid 5-2 edge. And, Moses held a whopping 11-6 margin in 30+ point games against Kareem.

Kareem's two highest games against Moses were 34 and 36. Meanwhile, Moses had games of 34, 34, 35, 36, 37, 37, 38, and 39 against Kareem. And in their post-season H2H's, Moses held a 2-1 edge in 30+ point games (Kareem's high was 32, while Moses had games of 33, and even 38 in their playoff battles.)

Rebounding? As expected, Moses just CRUSHED Kareem on the glass. In the known 16 games in which I could find their rebounding totals, Moses went an unbelieveable 16-0 against Kareem. And some were by HUGE margins. For instance, in the '83 Finals, Moses not only outrebounded Kareem, 4-0, he held a MASSIVE 18-8 rpg differential.

Not only that, but given the fact that Moses was a better rebounder in EVERY season in their 13 years in the league together, there was a very good chance that Moses won the VAST MAJORITY of their rebounding H2H's. I wouldn't be surprised if the overall margin was something like a 35-5 edge (or maybe even higher.)

Kareem did SLIGHTLY outshoot Moses from the floor in those 16 H2H games, but it was very close, and overall, Kareem shot .523 in those 16 games (again, from the 82-83 season thru the 88-89 season.) Moses shot .472 overall in those last 16 H2H games.

All of which is interesting. For instance, in Kareem's 84-85 and 85-86 seasons, against Moses, he averaged 22 ppg on .513 shooting from the field against Moses in their four H2H's. Against a 22 and 23 year old Hakeem, in those two seasons, and covering 10 H2H games, Kareem averaged 31.8 ppg on a mind-boggling .630 shooting. Meanwhile, Moses averaged 23 ppg on .484 shooting against Kareem, all while outrebounding him by an average differential of 12-5 rpg.

So, for those that question Moses's defense, they had better take a closer look. He was clearly a FORCE against Kareem. Once again, Moses' dodged Kareem's truly dominant seasons ('71-73), but even a young Moses was a near match for a near prime Kareem. And a PRIME Moses just ABUSED an older Kareem (even in a Kareem MVP season in 79-80.)


And Kareem came in SECOND in this ridiculous voting...

[Deuce Bigalow]

And Kareem came in SECOND in this ridiculous voting...
I sense some mad...

Moses got a vote btw

[DirtySanchez]

I sense some mad...

Moses got a vote btw

Lol he will be up soon enough

[Maniak]

Tim Duncan

[kennethgriffin]

if i didnt wake up 80% of the board. kobe would have slipped to 10th or 11th

thank me for giving that reality check by pointing out the hypocrisy of shaq being over kobe due to "peak play" but voting the first 5 players based on careers

wilt below bird for career*

shaq above kobe for peak*

explain that one

:yaohappy: