Build your franchise: Bill Russell or Dwight Howard?

[CavaliersFTW]

Your team has just tanked the prior year and now has the #1 pick. The draft is weak save for two raw, but athletic, defensive minded centers. One is sinewy and fast and nimble enough to run the floor with the ball the other is strong and powerfull and can't be stopped once he goes up for the dunk.

Dwight Howard, 19 years old - lead high school to State Title.
6-9" w/o shoes
6-10.25" w/shoes
7-4.5" Wingspan
9-3.5" Standing Reach
9.25" Hand Length
9.75" Hand Width
240lbs - very explosive - incredible leaper - freak athlete - manchild

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0601/rise_e_howard01_400.jpg

http://i.cnn.net/si/2004/writers/mike_fish/03/02/howard.insider/p1_dwighthoward_Damian%20Strohmeyer.jpg




Bill Russell, 22 years old - fresh off two b2b NCAA titles @ SFU plus an Olympic Gold
6-9.63" w/o shoes
6-10.88" w/shoes
7-4" Wingspan
9-5" Standing Reach
10.5" Hand length
9.5" Hand Width
217lbs - incredible leaper - freak athlete - high bball IQ - proven winner - fast on the break

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-SVLk4WXqarg/T1SAWCZkitI/AAAAAAAADMg/xxpbyPxzLbE/s640/h95.18.1041_edit.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-cIeZzHU43Fc/T2VliXN4qSI/AAAAAAAADPM/Jglt_bFO3ng/s800/Corbis-IH161161.jpg


Who ya got? Does Bill Russell's size (only 217lbs when he was drafted) deter you from picking him (being that his abilities are only that of a genuine center?). Or did his ability to win in the NCAA and an Olympic Gold boost his credit?

[dunksby]

Very bored eh?

[CavaliersFTW]

Very bored eh?
yup :lol

[FireDavidKahn]

Russell.

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Proven winner all day

[KobesFinger]

Do we know how they turn out? Because Dwight could have sucked. I'd still take Russell. I never got to see him in his day but I know that Dwight often disappears on O. I'd also take his college experience, leadership, maturity and winning mentality over Dwight. On a side-note, I always thought Dwight had gigantic hands from the way he holds the ball. They're smaller than Rondo's?

[Harison]

One is not like the other. Its disrespect to Rus to even ask this question :no:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Dwight by far. A more fair question would be Hilton Armstrong or Bill Russell.

[CavaliersFTW]

Dwight by far. A more fair question would be Hilton Armstrong or Bill Russell.
Since your the odd man out right now, why would you take Dwight?

[Zedja]

Dwight by far. A more fair question would be Hilton Armstrong or Bill Russell.
Please go die.

[CavaliersFTW]

One is not like the other. Its disrespect to Rus to even ask this question :no:
I'm testing ISH level of respect for Russell. I'm working on a mix for him right now, I know good and well the two aren't comparable, I'm just curious as to what other people think about him before I start posting footage :D

[Papaya Petee]

Who would I rather draft if I had the number one pick not knowing their careers but the information you posted? Dwight without a doubt.

[Celtic_Pride]

I'm working on a mix for him right now

:applause:

Repped

[CavaliersFTW]

Who would I rather draft if I had the number one pick not knowing their careers but the information you posted? Dwight without a doubt.

22 year old Gold Medal/2 NCAA titles as the man vs 19 year old with a high school title as the man? So what makes it Dwight w/o a doubt, a 23lb weight difference?

[BrickingStar]

Bill rode good players to chips he's overrated because he's a ring chaser not a leader not only that but he played in a weak era like wilt I don't see how wilt/especially I can't lead a team bill russel are ranked over players like kobe duncan ect..

[Mr Exlax]

22 year old Gold Medal/2 NCAA titles as the man vs 19 year old with a high school title as the man? So what makes it Dwight w/o a doubt, a 23lb weight difference?

Melo had an NCAA title and Clevland passed on him to get Lebron. IJS

[swi7ch]

I like Dwight because I like drama and stupidity from my franchise player.

[Heavincent]

:roll: :roll:

Bill Russell and it's not even close.

[AK47DR91]

Well, the fact that we already know how Russell's career turn out, he would be the obvious choice.

But if you take out Bill Russell's name and Dwight Howard's name, and just simply use "Play A with 2 NCAA titles & Gold Medal VS Player B who lead his team to a HS state title," as well as their height and wingspan, and other descriptions of their game, I think there would be two outcomes.

1) If your building your franchise between 1995-2005, chances are you'd most likely go with the high school player. Many franchise were willing to take chances during that time period.

2) If you're building your franchise pre-1995, you'd go with the sure thing in a two-time NCAA champion and Gold Medalist.

[nightprowler10]

Russell. No doubt about it.

[Mr Exlax]

Didn't Bill Russel get owned by Wilt every time they played? What other center owns Dwight like that?

[TheeBeast]

Bill Russell, without even blinking

[nightprowler10]

Didn't Bill Russel get owned by Wilt every time they played? What other center owns Dwight like that?
What other center is there?!

[Umad101]

Both overrated

[Bigsmoke]

Bill Russell.

[DatAsh]

Didn't Bill Russel get owned by Wilt every time they played? What other center owns Dwight like that?

As if Dwight wouldn't get "owned" by Wilt Chamberlain:facepalm

Can't wait to see the mix of Russell that you have coming? How much have you got so far?

[Jameerthefear]

Idk. I don't know how each would play in the other's era.

[longhornfan1234]

Howard.


A 6'9 center? :lol

[Bigsmoke]

As if Dwight wouldn't get "owned" by Wilt Chamberlain:facepalm

Can't wait to see the mix of Russell that you have coming? How much have you got so far?

when you think about it

Russell had success going against Wilt
Wilt has some success going against Kareem
Kareem had success going against Hakeem
Hakeem had success going against Shaq
Shaq in his prime would destroy Dwight

[ZaoMing]

Didn't Bill Russel get owned by Wilt every time they played? What other center owns Dwight like that?

check the stats for yao ming vs dwight head to head :yaohappy:

[Crown&Coke]

William Russell

people think all he did was defense, but a lot of those years with the celtics Red used Bill as the initiator of the offense from the mid post. his passing is very, very, very underrated

and he is one of the smartest ball players

[CavaliersFTW]

As if Dwight wouldn't get "owned" by Wilt Chamberlain:facepalm

Can't wait to see the mix of Russell that you have coming? How much have you got so far?
I've got 0 clips on my editing timeline lol I haven't started cutting clips out or chopping games apart yet. But I know the footage I'm (still) accumulating from a few more sources is legit. Bill Russell repeatedly dribbles the entire length of the floor after rebounds or blocked shots with his left OR right hand (alternating to keep the ball away from the defender!) only to throw down a dunk, layup, or pass off to assist a hot handed teammate after he's drawn the D. And he shoots skyhooks and sweeping hooks with both hands too. He seems very in touch with the flow of the game, like when he should score and when he shouldn't. That kind of ability alone means he is NOT just another defensive minded Ben Wallace. IMO he's more dynamic on both ends of the floor than Dwight Howard too.

Also, just the way he carries himself on the floor, he looks mean as f*ck out there. He's got some sort of "it" factor goin on when he's in the zone. I got this play where one of the Lakers centers Leroy Ellis tries to snatch a rebound out of Bill's hands when Bill was probably caught up in a moment of cruise control and Ellis manages to grab it and tries to shoot it back up and it looks like Bill just flips out cause he crushes that ball into the crowd and stares at Ellis like Ellis was some snotty child who just did a no no and is about to get whipped with a belt. He looks like a guy you just don't want to get testy with, he pulls off the intimidation vibe very well.

[CavaliersFTW]

Howard.


A 6'9 center? :lol
:facepalm

In their barefeet:

Dwight Howard: 6-9 - thanks to draftexpress.com
Lies about his height, calls himself 6-11 because he doesn't want to be known as an undersized center

Bill Russell: 6-9.63 - thanks to sports illustrated 1956
Lies about his height calls himself 6-9 because he doesn't want to be associated with "goons" (tall uncordinated players)

Yah.... so uh.... you were saying somethin about 6-9 centers?

[clipps]

Bill Russel easily.

[Jameerthefear]

when you think about it

Russell had success going against Wilt
Wilt has some success going against Kareem
Kareem had success going against Hakeem
Hakeem had success going against Shaq
Shaq in his prime would destroy Dwight
The difference is, all those players actually played eachother in their primes. You're just going off your opinion on whether Shaq would "destroy" Dwight.

[Psileas]

Let's see: If ISH, especially these days, was asked if they'd rather build on Russell or Wilt, Russell would probably get more votes (or, at least, plenty of votes). If ISH was asked if they'd rather build on Howard or Ewing, Ewing would probably get more votes. If ISH was asked if they'd rather build on Wilt or Ewing, Wilt would get more votes. Yet, Russell vs Howard is supposed to be a debate?

[b1imtf]

when you think about it

Russell had success going against Wilt
Wilt has some success going against Kareem
Kareem had success going against Hakeem
Hakeem had success going against Shaq
Shaq in his prime would destroy Dwight
Great way to put things... :facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

[QUOTE=jlauber]How many other basketball players could you say that about? Perhaps Russell would be another Ben Wallace, albeit a better passer...but that is not saying much. Sure, West, Robertson, and maybe a handful of others would be good players today, but all-stars?

[CavaliersFTW]

...
:lol I have too give him credit for some of his research, but that line right there isn't one of Jlaubers better quotes

[blablabla]

you can't be serious with this question

[MisterAmazing]

On paper? Dwight. In reality? Russell.

[CavaliersFTW]

On paper? Dwight. In reality? Russell.
Really? Cause on paper it sorta looks like this:

Dwight +23lbs in weight and +0.5" wingspan

BUT

Bill +0.63" height +1.5" standing reach +1.75" hands

the edge doesn't seem so obvious even on paper

[Brickz187]

If it was the Magic, Dwight easy and its not even close. I'd rather have the player who can actually carry the scoring load for the team and be great at defense and rebounds. What the hell is the Magic going to do with a player who averages 20 rebounds and like 10 points? They will be garbage every year. If its a team who has other great players who can actually score and doesn't depend on the Center to score, Russell easy. Either way, I never did and never will like Bill Russell's game.

[scandisk_]

The G.O.A.T Winner of course :confusedshrug:

:oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

If it was the Magic, Dwight easy and its not even close. I'd rather have the player who can actually carry the scoring load for the team and be great at defense and rebounds. What the hell is the Magic going to do with a player who averages 20 rebounds and like 10 points? They will be garbage every year. If its a team who has other great players who can actually score and doesn't depend on the Center to score, Russell easy. Either way, I never did and never will like Bill Russell's game.
So then you'd draft the 19 year old player that only produced 16ppg in High School vs the 22 year old who avged 20ppg in NCAA? That's what they'd look like coming into the draft...

[Mach_3]

Bill God damned Russell! Not only was he a monster who loved the game but he probably understood the psychological aspects of the game and life itself better than probably any other ball player ever. Dwight on the other hand half the time doesn't even look like he wants to win the damn game hes playing in

[Brickz187]

So then you'd draft the 19 year old player that only produced 16ppg in High School vs the 22 year old who avged 20ppg in NCAA? That's what they'd look like coming into the draft...

That is very true. It's hard to answer because we already know what kind a player Russell turned out to be. The obvious choice would be the player who averaged 20 ppg, unless they wanted to take a gamble. Then again put Russell on a different team and you never know how he develops. Maybe he becomes a 20/20 beast every year.

[alwaysunny]

If we are assuming Russell won those back to back NCAA titles in 2011 and 2012 I'd definitely pick him over Dwight. But if we're talking teleporting Russell from the 60s to the present day, Dwight.

[CavaliersFTW]

If we are assuming Russell won those back to back NCAA titles in 2011 and 2012 I'd definitely pick him over Dwight. But if we're talking teleporting Russell from the 60s to the present day, Dwight.
Let's assume teleport. So you think Dwight's high school competition was better than Russell's NCAA and Olympic competition?

[alwaysunny]

Let's assume teleport. So you think Dwight's high school competition was better than Russell's NCAA and Olympic competition?

Not really. Only because we know exactly how Dwight will turn out because he's currently playing in this era, so there's that. Russell on the other hand is pure prediction and guesswork; he may average 20-20 or may bust, and I don't care how well you know about the past truth is we'll never really know. In the end it would be a foolish gamble to take when you have Dwight who is actually a clear cut best center in the league.

[ThaRegul8r]

If we are assuming Russell won those back to back NCAA titles in 2011 and 2012 I'd definitely pick him over Dwight. But if we're talking teleporting Russell from the 60s to the present day, Dwight.

Let's assume teleport.

I've posted this question before, but never gotten an answer.

So Russell (or any player) is teleported from the '60s to the 2010s, and gets absolutely zero opportunity to adjust to the fact that time travel even exists for one thing, that he's been spirited fifty years into the future into a completely different and alien social climate, and he doesn't even have a place to stay anymore or own anything other than the clothes on his back...

... and he's supposed to just suit up and play basketball?

:wtf:

[CavaliersFTW]

I've posted this question before, but never gotten an answer.

So Russell (or any player) is teleported from the '60s to the 2010s, and gets absolutely zero opportunity to adjust to the fact that time travel even exists for one thing, that he's been spirited fifty years into the future into a completely different and alien social climate, and he doesn't even have a place to stay anymore or own anything other than the clothes on his back...

... and he's supposed to just suit up and play basketball?

:wtf:

He get's the same that all players being drafted would get. Training camp, and the off season to work on whatever he wants with his game. And obviously, he can go to footlocker and buy a pair of new sneaks. :lol

[Freedom Kid7]

Russell without a doubt in my mind. Proven winner, proven toughness, defensive ferocity and could make his teammates better.

Dwight is a borderline manchild. He's good on defense, but not as good as Russell. He might have a slightly better offensive game than Russell, but Russ's intangibles and everything else is just miles ahead of Howard

Seriously, screw Howard.

[DatAsh]

Given the OP's history, I'm sure this thread isn't completely serious, but I'll answer seriously regardless.

People on this board really don't understand just how much a player's situation role within a team or system can affect that player's stats. Russell wasn't his team's first option, he wasn't even the second option, or third option for much of his career with the Celtics. We simply can't use Russell's offensive statistics to judge what Russell might be capable of in a more offensively oriented role. The fact that he almost always came up big and scored well above his "average" in the most important games aught to be indicative of the fact that he was capable of much more than what he was averaging. I'm not saying he'd be as good of a scorer as Dwight, but he'd probably be a top 3 offensive center in the league. When you consider the way the game is played today (especially on a team like the Magic) where you'd have an excellent passing big man surrounded by excellent shooters who are much more spread out than they were in Russell's day, and then you take into account the fact that their MUCH more leniant with assists than they were back then, you have to acknowledge the possibly that Russell would average more assists in todays game than he did in his(despite the pace).

The bottom line here is that you'd be looking at a player who just came off an NCAA title, who might very well be a 16-18 ppg / 16-18 rpg / 5-6 apg / 2-3 spg/ 5-6 bpg player and someone who's capable of taking the Phoenix Suns(the rough defensive equivalent of the 55-56 Celtics) and turning them into the best defensive team in the league in his first year, and then keeping them in that spot for the next 10 years.

Dwight Howard, despite being the better scorer, can't hold a candle to that.

[dunksby]

Russel played with quality big men, athletic freaks like Wilt and he won it all 11 times, it's so obvious Russel would dominate every center this league has to offer.

[WillC]

Russell for sure. Far better passer, team player, leader, etc.


I'm working on a mix for him right now

That would be incredible. Can't wait to see it.

[keepinitreal]

Russell.. btw, Bill Russell went to USF (not SFU)

[TheBigVeto]

LOL Russell any day. Dwight is not a leader and can't win championship as the main guy.

[Horatio33]

Bll Russell. Does whatever it takes to win, loved making his teammates better, would create a winning mentality for which ever team was lucky enough to draft him.

Dwight is more interested in entertaining people with his Barkley and Shaq impression that is exactly the same. He doesn't demand the ball, he doesn't even shoot the most shot on his team. Russell could get away with not shooting a lot because of his team but he dominated the boards and blocking. Howard is the main offensive threat but JAMEER NELSON shoots the ball more than him. He's a second banana at the most.

[FatComputerNerd]

Bill Bill Bill Bill Bill Bill

Bill Nye the science guy!

[NuggetsFan]

Bill Bill Bill Bill Bill Bill

Bill Nye the science guy!

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luzf6tJLr81qfhek7.gif

[Owl]

What exactly are we comparing here. Because in terms of impact GOAT rankings etc it's clearly Russell. But if we're projecting Russell to the modern game I'm not sure that its a given that a career 44% shooter (.471 TS%) translates well as an offensive player in the modern era. Yeah his high post passing stuff should still work. But coming in as a center at 217, without Red and Cousy and the Celtics and the Celtic system, and then without the psychological edge that the Celtics got over the years (and first built up in white league) I don't think Russell out of college necessarily translates to having the career he did if we're completely changing the context in which he develops. For what it's worth Dwight was picked first in his draft whereas Russell was taken 2nd albeit Cincinnati passed for budget reasons (and with teams considering tanking to get him).

And I say this is not out of a lack of respect for how good Bill Russell was, but because this comp seems to suggest them playing in the same era, and despite there generally being a consensus that the standard of pro-basketball has got better over time (albeit with a great deal of debate about how much over any given period), people seem to be responding to this as though it's a GOAT conversation where Russell's impact is clearly greater.

[Psileas]

I've posted this question before, but never gotten an answer.

So Russell (or any player) is teleported from the '60s to the 2010s, and gets absolutely zero opportunity to adjust to the fact that time travel even exists for one thing, that he's been spirited fifty years into the future into a completely different and alien social climate, and he doesn't even have a place to stay anymore or own anything other than the clothes on his back...

... and he's supposed to just suit up and play basketball?

:wtf:

For Russell (and anyone, really), the worst scenario would be to travel in time for just a few hours, then return in his own time - because this is the type of "teleportation" I've seen a few people suggest. What's funny (yet predictable) is that, even if this extreme scenario were to ever happen, a single game would be enough for plenty of fans to draw "conclusions" about Russell being able or not to compete.
The easy thing to predict is that a human being teleported 50 years in the future would have a hard time to come in terms with the new reality presented upon him within a few hours. After all, it took none other than Jordan himself much less than a 50-year time teleportation to have an ugly first game against a slightly more modern NBA, in his first comeback. It only took him staying outside basketball for 1.5 year (and still not completely) to return to the NBA with a 7-28 fg performance. If he were to retire after one single game, things wouldn't exactly look that good for him.

[swi7ch]

McGee

[Owl]

For Russell (and anyone, really), the worst scenario would be to travel in time for just a few hours, then return in his own time - because this is the type of "teleportation" I've seen a few people suggest. What's funny (yet predictable) is that, even if this extreme scenario were to ever happen, a single game would be enough for plenty of fans to draw "conclusions" about Russell being able or not to compete.
The easy thing to predict is that a human being teleported 50 years in the future would have a hard time to come in terms with the new reality presented upon him within a few hours. After all, it took none other than Jordan himself much less than a 50-year time teleportation to have an ugly first game against a slightly more modern NBA, in his first comeback. It only took him staying outside basketball for 1.5 year (and still not completely) to return to the NBA with a 7-28 fg performance. If he were to retire after one single game, things wouldn't exactly look that good for him.

Not only a 1.5 (probably 1.75) year absence, he had also adapted his game to playing with cartoon characters, after being pulled through a golf hole into a Warner Brothers cartoon world.

And he did pretty well after that adjustment. http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/regressing-compiling-the-absurd-box-score-for-space-jam/
http://www.wired.com/playbook/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/tunesboxscore.jpg
albeit his defensive skill translated poorly versus giant monsters with the talent of Shawn Bradley.
http://www.wired.com/playbook/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/monstarsboxscore.jpg

It's just getting back used to playing with Scottie and the new Bulls took a little time.

[Psileas]

Not only a 1.5 (probably 1.75) year absence, he had also adapted his game to playing with cartoon characters, after being pulled through a golf hole into a Warner Brothers cartoon world.

And he did pretty well after that adjustment. http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/regressing-compiling-the-absurd-box-score-for-space-jam/
http://www.wired.com/playbook/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/tunesboxscore.jpg
albeit his defensive skill translated poorly versus giant monsters with the talent of Shawn Bradley.
http://www.wired.com/playbook/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/monstarsboxscore.jpg

It's just getting back used to playing with Scottie and the new Bulls took a little time.

Wow, Ewing choked again. Had the only missed shot of the game.

Was this a 48 minute, 24'' game? The stats point to a 24 minute game.

[kurple]

anyone saying d12 should be banned

[greymatter]

Bill rode good players to chips he's overrated because he's a ring chaser not a leader not only that but he played in a weak era like wilt I don't see how wilt/especially I can't lead a team bill russel are ranked over players like kobe duncan ect..


:biggums:
Holy fcuking ignorant run-on sentences Batman!

[greymatter]

anyone saying d12 should be banned

I'd one up that and say sterilized. The gene pool is filled with enough retards as is.

[alenleomessi]

russ or shaq would be a better question

[greymatter]

What exactly are we comparing here. Because in terms of impact GOAT rankings etc it's clearly Russell. But if we're projecting Russell to the modern game I'm not sure that its a given that a career 44% shooter (.471 TS%) translates well as an offensive player in the modern era. Yeah his high post passing stuff should still work. But coming in as a center at 217, without Red and Cousy and the Celtics and the Celtic system, and then without the psychological edge that the Celtics got over the years (and first built up in white league) I don't think Russell out of college necessarily translates to having the career he did if we're completely changing the context in which he develops. For what it's worth Dwight was picked first in his draft whereas Russell was taken 2nd albeit Cincinnati passed for budget reasons (and with teams considering tanking to get him).

And I say this is not out of a lack of respect for how good Bill Russell was, but because this comp seems to suggest them playing in the same era, and despite there generally being a consensus that the standard of pro-basketball has got better over time (albeit with a great deal of debate about how much over any given period), people seem to be responding to this as though it's a GOAT conversation where Russell's impact is clearly greater.

You failed to consider Russell's biggest intangibles. The guy's basketball IQ and competitive intensity was second to no one's in the history of the game. Imagine a guy more intense than Alonzo Mourning with Blake Griffin ups and way superior to Dennis Rodman at getting into a guy's head. What's in between his ears would have allowed him to dominate in any era.

[fpliii]

weird thread

[Owl]

You failed to consider Russell's biggest intangibles. The guy's basketball IQ and competitive intensity was second to no one's in the history of the game. Imagine a guy more intense than Alonzo Mourning with Blake Griffin ups and way superior to Dennis Rodman at getting into a guy's head. What's in between his ears would have allowed him to dominate in any era.
I don't want to get too into this because I'm put into a position where it seems like I'm attacking Russell and that's not my intention.

Players with supreme basketball IQ, some of them great college players, have failed or underwhelmed in the NBA.

Danny Fortson played with great intensity, heck most NBA players play with great intensity most of the time (see Mark Cuban on wanting it more).

And if the game was so much about psychology it would be played by psychologists (or teams full of Rodman's). With most players the only person who can get in their heads is themselves.

I'm not sure those factors demonstrate how Russell would score in the modern game. I'm not even saying he couldn't I'm just not sure how anyone can be confident that he wouldn't translate poorly in terms of shooting and scoring, unless they've seen substantially more footage than I've seen/than is publicly available and it shows that those numbers are very misleading. And yes I'm aware he was a gifted passer, I'm not saying he couldn't do that, but Alvan Adams, Tom Boerwinkle, Brad Daugherty, Vlade Divac etc aren't considered the game's greatest centers are they.

[jongib369]

Bill Russell for sure, dwight hasnt had the same opportunities Russell had team wise...but I highly doubt dwight would be able to mesh with teammates like Russ...Would it be safe saying Russell is the GOAT team player?


http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/533951.jpg

[ThaRegul8r]

http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/533951.jpg

:applause:

[jongib369]

And to anyone saying this post is weird....:coleman:

[Flash31]

Russell,now and then.
Both are the same height yet russell got bigger hands and while both
have great defense russell's defense is one of the best ALL TIME.

Both are great athletes and although dwight has more athleticism and can jump higher and more strength and power russell had legendary stamina and longetivity.

Both can get you 10-15 rebounds sometimes 20 but russell averaged over 20 in his career and had games with 40+rebounds multiple times.

Russell is a better free throw shooter and has more post moves while dwight really doesnt have any and instead uses his athleticism and power to score which works most of the time and when it doesnt its over.

You could definitely build around both guys dwight with 3 pt shooters,good point guard who distributes while russell you need shooters rather than playmakers bc he wasnt the first option or second or even 3rd on offense.

Russell is like a rodman in that extreme defender and rebounder and could pass but was not an option on offense most of the time but instead anchored your defense and ball control and got you extra possessions while dwight is more of a patrick ewing with defense minus the mid range game in that while he can score defend and get rebounds you want and need another solid option around him.

Bill Russell in modern day terms was like the Dennis Rodman of Centers while Dwight is like Ewing with more defense but no mid range game.


So the question would be what a team needs really,both are great players but in the wrong system and while they flourish their teams flounder.Russell on the bucks,legendary team defense and unstoppable to penetrate the frontcort,but still not much offense.Dwight on the bobcats and you have good defense and better offense but not good shooters around him so whole d collapses on him.

Every player needs the right system in order for their team to flourish and maximize their talents otherwise like kobe,jordan,wilt,lebron,wade,garnett,reggie,carter ,ming,and more you wont get far unless your talents are maximized and the system around you benefits you along with your teammates and then you flourish.

[CavaliersFTW]

Russell,now and then.
Both are the same height yet russell got bigger hands and while both
have great defense russell's defense is one of the best ALL TIME.

Both are great athletes and although dwight has more athleticism and can jump higher and more strength and power russell had legendary stamina and longetivity.

Both can get you 10-15 rebounds sometimes 20 but russell averaged over 20 in his career and had games with 40+rebounds multiple times.

Russell is a better free throw shooter and has more post moves while dwight really doesnt have any and instead uses his athleticism and power to score which works most of the time and when it doesnt its over.

You could definitely build around both guys dwight with 3 pt shooters,good point guard who distributes while russell you need shooters rather than playmakers bc he wasnt the first option or second or even 3rd on offense.

Russell is like a rodman in that extreme defender and rebounder and could pass but was not an option on offense most of the time but instead anchored your defense and ball control and got you extra possessions while dwight is more of a patrick ewing with defense minus the mid range game in that while he can score defend and get rebounds you want and need another solid option around him.

Bill Russell in modern day terms was like the Dennis Rodman of Centers while Dwight is like Ewing with more defense but no mid range game.


So the question would be what a team needs really,both are great players but in the wrong system and while they flourish their teams flounder.Russell on the bucks,legendary team defense and unstoppable to penetrate the frontcort,but still not much offense.Dwight on the bobcats and you have good defense and better offense but not good shooters around him so whole d collapses on him.

Every player needs the right system in order for their team to flourish and maximize their talents otherwise like kobe,jordan,wilt,lebron,wade,garnett,reggie,carter ,ming,and more you wont get far unless your talents are maximized and the system around you benefits you along with your teammates and then you flourish.
Russell is actually almost a full 3/4" taller than Howard. Howard measured 6-9 in the NBA draft at 19 years old and Russell measured 6-9 and 5/8ths (6-9.63) in college so contrary to their deceiving listed heights, Russell was taller than Howard

[KDTrey5]

dwight. BEAST. modern > old

[CavaliersFTW]

dwight. BEAST. modern > old
:roll:

for NBA centers? old >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern

here's his top ten from 2011
http://youtu.be/rpRozBR34KM
*Volley ball spike blocks :facepalm :roll: that's top 10 material!?!?!?! he spikes them AWAY FROM HIS TEAMMATES AND FAILS TO GAIN POSESSION:oldlol:
*Dunks, put backs, alleyoops... Yawn. Every center in history does those.

I don't have my Bill Russell mix ready yet but how is Dwight even remotely close to this "old" sh*t!?
http://youtu.be/2i8mlFGwmO4

[KDTrey5]

players are better these days. russel is overrated nig

[CavaliersFTW]

players are better these days. russel is overrated nig
Name one center Dwight faces that is better than Wilt Chamberlain. Don't worry I won't laugh.... :D

[Zedja]

Name one center Dwight faces that is better than Wilt Chamberlain. Don't worry I won't laugh.... :D
Joel Anthony :lol :lol :roll: :roll: :oldlol: :oldlol: :D :D :lebronamazed:

[KDTrey5]

wilt was playing with a bunch of white guys that had no athleticism

[CavaliersFTW]

wilt was playing with a bunch of white guys that had no athleticism
Someone didn't watch the video... :facepalm :oldlol:

u jus trollin - im outta here!

[jlauber]

wilt was playing with a bunch of white guys that had no athleticism

Not only that, but they were all around 6-0 feet, too. Players like Reed, Bellamy, Unseld, Hayes, McAdoo, Lanier, Thurmond, Russell, and Kareem. Hell, he even faced 6-0 nerdy Artis Gilmore late in his career.

[WockaVodka]

Russell is like in his 70 so I'll go with Howard

[kkb_12]

Building franchise - Russell
Building new arena - Howard (can do some heavy lifting)

[atljonesbro]

Dwight Howard easily. Why would I want a poor mans Hilton Armstrong? :lol :oldlol: :roll:

[KDTrey5]

Dwight Howard easily. Why would I want a poor mans Hilton Armstrong? :lol :oldlol: :roll:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[FatComputerNerd]

players are better these days. russel is overrated nig

boomkmarked for future neg , f@ggott.

[Psileas]

Dwight Howard easily. Why would I want a poor mans Hilton Armstrong? :lol :oldlol: :roll:

Maybe because you, yourself, said "Dwight Howard easily". :confusedshrug:

[BabyBull]

I don't know how Russell's game transcends to this era, so I'll pick Dwight.

Russ could either be hands down the best center in the league or a role player, we'll never know.

[BlueandGold]

Most of the people who responded to this thread has probably only seen 10-20 minutes of Russell game footage, max.

[SilkyJohnson]

Can I have both in this alternate reality where I'm able to pick both players at the same age?

If not, I opt for Bill Russell who is struck by cancer shortly after, thereby including Dwight, if not on court but at least in spirit.

[BabyBull]

russel is overrated nig
People are allowed to write comments like this ? :oldlol:

this site sucks so bad.:roll:

[KOBE143]

Poor man's Joel Anthony or Dwight Howard.. hmm..

[jongib369]

I'm glad I didnt take you're other post seriously...because that statement proves how much you know about basketball...unless you're trolling...in that case :yaohappy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2akdYIFJ2A


Let me guess, you think Kobe is the GOAT?

LOL

[KDTrey5]

boomkmarked for future neg , f@ggott.
russel played in a league with 6'0 ft white centers. and how many teams was he playing against back then? like 5? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[TMacMagic]

Bill Russel's just a better player.

Oh, and I also would like someone who doesn't act like a little kid when questioned about his commitment to the team.

[kobron23]

Bill Russel's just a better player.

Oh, and I also would like someone who doesn't act like a little kid when questioned about his commitment to the team.

this

[Soundwave]

If I was a GM, as much as I prefer Russell's intangiables, there's too many question marks around how Russell would adjust to the modern NBA and how much of a product he might've been of a stacked Celtics squad.

Dwight is a baby and personally I dislike him. But bare minimum you know you're pretty much getting the best big in the game today.

So I'd have to go with him. Why take the risk.

[ralph_i_el]

bill russel couldn't survive in the league at 217 lbs, but if modern nutrition and whatever could get him around 240 I'd take him.